The Hunt For Red October - Learning to Love the Soviets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2020
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McTiernan Mania continues! How does The Hunt for Red October skillfully use subtitles and multiple languages to alter our perspective of the characters? Let's find out!
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Patrick: *makes a video about subtitles*
Me: This is RIVETING STUFF.
I'd seen commentary about the language shift in this movie before, even with some of the same references - but the explanation of what, exactly, is going on with the storytelling by the use of this device hasn't been done like this in any of them. Well bloody done!
Remember when I said every video I make some dumb mistake that haunts me forever?
Well in this video I got the location/language in Extraction wrong (it's Bangladesh/Bengali) and added an "s" onto Book of Revelation. Whoops.
We still love ya, Patrick!
I was going to comment. Love you man. Just found your channel due to X cellent scene playlist.
I really don't know what to make of Charl increasingly pushing his personal and frankly divisive agenda. Enabling and giving him a pass like "classic Charl" or the probably inevitable "it's just satire", "Coconuts will be coconuts", you name it, will only make it worse imo.
This was my first time watching one of these "talk show" videos of PHW and I didn't know the gig, and basically it was seeing comments like these that forced me to watch it and I can't believe what this channel has become. Of course there were "controversial" takes before but this is just another level. It is insulting at a very deep level, honestly irregardless of one's personal politics.
I laughed
I know, right?
Let's get one thing straight. Charl doesn't "get a pass". Charl earned it because he lived it. Take your anti-coconut agenda elsewhere
But he has such a charming lop-sided grin!
When you here "...barely an inconvenience" and it sounds suddenly like a pitch meeting
I've been bingeing those videos the past few days and that moment lit up a whole bunch of fireworks in my brain
@@yt_Ajay_ Same with me, it's hard to unheer it now XD
Being reminded of Pitch Meetings is TIGHT
How could you slip in a Pitch Meeting reference? Super easy, barely an inconvenience
I believe it was unintentional, but Ryan George has so thoroughly owned that phrase, it ought to be copyrighted.
"I should achieve a full Alan Moore."
Not 2 minutes in. Here's your goddamn thumb up.
Doesn't count unless you also practice black magic and start each day by yelling at the sea clad in only boots and a trench coat.
What about me becoming a nudist and achieving a full Dr. Manhattan
@@UkuleleVillain All things considered, the thumb up is blue. So, go for it.
In Valkyrie the same thing happens early on in the movie. You first hear a bunch of germans swearing an Oath to Adolf Hitler which then leads into Tom Cruise writing a letter in german. As he's saying everything in german, you slowly hear the english translation fade in and the german fade out until the english remains.
Probably not the same finesse as trading off on the word Armageddon, but it's still a cool effect.
Waiting on Last Action Hero - never gonna happen but I can hope LOL
Seconded.
@@zlodrim9284 it's got one of my all-time favorite Charles Dance lines: "If God were a villain, he'd be _me_ !"
@@zlodrim9284 I'd say it was because audiences at the time weren't really ready for that kind of meta-humour, but WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT? was pretty damn meta and a huge hit. So it's probably the weird tonal issues--parts of it feel kid- and family-friendly, other parts are pretty dark and violent. That kind of mashup can work fine in the late 2010s (DEADPOOL) but maybe not so much in the early 90s.
Movies with Mikey has a great episode about it.
As Uncle Dan said:
th-cam.com/video/hSpdEG0FHFA/w-d-xo.html&feature=emb_title
Totally worth your time.
"Extraction" is actually mostly set in Bangladesh, where they speak Bengali. The beginning is in India, where they speak Hindi. 2 different countries and languages
No language called "Bengali", the people are Bengali but the language is Bangla. Pedantic, maybe, but it's kinda like saying "Indian" as a language instead of Hindi. Also, for whatever reason, Bangladeshi characters spoke Indian Bangla (not that I'm complaining since that's the only bangla I understand lol)
@@turbochargedfilms keep on being pedantic, i've learned something today. Thanks.
@@turbochargedfilms Bengali =/= Bangali
Bengali is the English form of saying "Bangla", but yes I get where you're coming from.
Also in India, no one speaks their native language exclusively, they constantly shove in english words and sentences. Kinda like how Congolese people shove in french words and phrases with lingala.
@@molodezhnaja I'm not sure what they could've done, setting-wise, to convey this better to us. I think we'd still slip into thinking it is India because we don't know how to recognise the difference.
5:15 "...barely an inconvenience" The moment 2 youtube channel universes collide. Which, of course, is TIGHT.
Oh, being tight is tight
I’m gonna need you to get all the way off my back about that
Came here to make this comment. You beat me by a year.
I'm so goddamn invested in that Rugrats rant
Alright, I'm usually a fan of charle and his antics. But he's gone too far this time - I'm really just disappointed that you would air such filth
These are dark times. We’re all doing what we have to in order to get to the next day.
5:12 - On the “one-inch barrier”: This is something that I have mentioned when I used to work at Blockbuster (yes, I know that dates me). There’s so many films that I would try to recommend, but the fact that they were in subtitles instantly made people go “no, too much of an effort“. It was frustrating considering how so many great films come from other countries, as Americans are missing out on so many great movies.
There's no word "Buckaroo" in Russian, though. I guess it's a name so you can argue this is why it's not translated.
In any case, I guess it was meant to mean a generic "cowboy" coming from a Soviet Officer to classify the Americans aboard their Submarine. This word wouldn't really be used in this situation since I doubt anyone in Russia even knows what "Buckaroo" is (I didn't before I googled). Which kinds supports the subject Patrick is talking about even more. The word is used specifically to emphasize a forming connection.
Unrelated, but, I recently finished watching "The Americans" TV show. Being Russian myself, I wondered what was the reason for me finding most of the Russian characters there more likable than the leads of the show, despite them also being Russian in the story. I guess now I understand why.
The leads rarely spoke Russian and when they did it was with a terrible accent.
If I remember correctly Sam Neill character was a USA enthusiastic so he would know a few words in english which would make sense to be him to be the one to deepens the bond between them in that scene.
@@robsonwaterkemper that would explain it. As a Russian I concur that I never knew the meaning of that word.
Ukrainian here. Had no idea what Buckaroo means as well.
@@lost1head Buckaroo appears to be an old way in English to name a cowboy. It derives from old latin forms of the profession
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buckaroo
@@lost1head There were also an obscure Sci-Fi movie on the eighties that used that name. I don't remember which year the movie happens, so I don't know if the Sam Neill could have seen this movie in smuggled VHS bootleg back in Soviet Union
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Buckaroo_Banzai_Across_the_8th_Dimension
That's so funny I was just randomly thinking of 13th Warrior as you're explaining how a director can use language transition to bring the audience closer to the characters, and low and behold, it was the same director =0
Okay, was anyone going to tell me that John McTiernan went to jail for spying on his producer or was I supposed to hear about it as a footnote at the end of a Patrick H Willems video myself?
He must have really admired Nixon.
Technically he went to jail for lying to the FBI, the spying thing was out of the statute of limitation.
... I'd never put together the similar techniques used in Red October and in 13th Warrior. Damn, McTiernan is GOOD at this shit.
The political officer is named Putin! How am I just finding this out?
Back then it was just another russian surname:)
@@pasza_dem If he had the same name in the book, it could very well be a direct reference, as Vladimir Putin was someone Clancy would have known about even back then.
@@dwc1964 How would Clancy have known about some random KGB officer in 1984?
In 1990, you put in box. In 2020, Putin box you.
@@OldGruetzgesicht okay, TBH I hadn't looked any of the information up before - when Clancy wrote the book, or what Putin was doing at the time. So I just went to Wikipedia and found:
"After training, he worked in the Second Chief Directorate (counter-intelligence), before he was transferred to the First Chief Directorate, where he monitored foreigners and consular officials in Leningrad. In September 1984, Putin was sent to Moscow for further training at the Yuri Andropov Red Banner Institute."
So yeah, Putin doesn't seem to have been that high-up or famous before 1984. At best, his job of "monitor[ing] foreigners and consular officials in Leningrad" might have put him on someone's radar who Clancy might have consulted in researching the book; but as I type this, I realize what a stretch that is.
"Never mind!"
This channel is one of the few things that’s better with covid.
"other than being one of the two Michael Bay films in The Criterion Collection..."
I prefer Armageddon over Endgame.
"I've seen that film - it's a pretty good film"
I feel personally attacked by this audience insert character.
Quick mention that director Bryan Singer and screenwriter Christopher McQuarrie worked out a similar ingenuity for the language barrier delimma in "Valkyrie" with Tom Cruise in the opening credits.
The majority of Extraction takes place in Bangladesh not India, and while some characters speak Hindi, the villains you referred to are generally speaking Bengali.
Extraction ain't Bourne that's for sure. Bourne Supremacy was much more realistic.
+
As a person of Bangladeshi heritage it bothered me that Patrick didn't get this right
Classic 13:53
Yeah dude... Just came here to type this... As a Bengali guy, this is insulting... This is the language of Ray. Without Ray there'd be no Ajantrik, without which there'd be no Taxi driver, and consequently no Joker.
You should consider doing a video about Mctiernan's other movie, the thirteenth warrior
you'd do it well i'm sure
You can draw sounds?
I saw the original trailer when it was called “The Eaters of the Dead.”
The novel it was based on was also called, "Eaters of the Dead." It was written by Michael Crition (which I've probably misspelled), the same guy who wrote Sphere and Jurassic Park.
That’s my secret, foreign films. I always watch with subtitles on.
You're one of the only TH-cam Channels that keeps me sane during all of this
To the detriment of their sanity.
Doesn't John Krasinki play Jack Ryan?
he does in the Amazon show. Jack Ryan is kinda like Bond, as in a bunch of different actors have played him.
"McTiernan Mania continues!
...and also concludes."
That made me lmao.
Was sad
I had the idea for this video like seven years ago, but couldn't think of an interesting way to discuss it, other than just showing the various movies that employ a "translation" gimmick. "Mars Needs Moms" is another one.
Love that you used the original scripts to break down your thesis regarding audience alliances. Great work as usual, Patrick.
Sorry to be so off topic but does someone know a method to get back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb lost the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me
@Holden Maximus instablaster ;)
@Aaron Jairo I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Aaron Jairo it worked and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my ass!
@Holden Maximus No problem :D
Saw the first seven minutes of the video, paused it, downloaded the movie, watched it and came back for the rest of the video. The things I do for Patrick
Patrick! As a person with English as my second language, I have always thought about this movie as the blueprint on how to make the perfect translation between languages in movies. You just made my point look good! Seriously, you are on fire!
I have to say, when you brought out that PHYSICAL ORIGINAL COPY of the script, all I could do was loudly pronounce "now that is some fucking dedication!"
You rock dude!
This is such a fantastic episode! Thank you for the movie lesson! I hope one day you can see John Krasinski as Jack Ryan came to see the Soviets. Not as an enemy, but as a brother in helping us all survive the apocalypse.
I enjoyed this video. But I have to say, I disagree with part of your interpretation of the scene where the two crews meet. When Ryan tells Ramius it’s wise to study the ways of your adversary, Ramius responds in English, indicating the he, too, speaks the language of his enemies. This is not another “magic” translation for our benefit. When Ramius surrenders the Red October and asks for asylum he addresses Mancuso directly, correctly noting that Mancuso is the senior American officer present. And Mancuso clearly understands Ramius. They speak and understand one another several times, most notably when they argue about Ramius’s order to turn into the torpedo. And again when Mancuso gives Ramius his pistol.
One of the best uses of subtitles I've seen is in the Russian movie Night Watch. In that they are made a feature, by where and when they crash in, or bleed in, or dissolve like ink in water, with the method and style always appropriate to, adding to, the action or the atmosphere onscreen at that moment. Making the English speaking audience crave the next line as much as the next set piece.
I've always thought that subtitles could be used to indicate tell-tale lines from a characters inner monologue. Instead of us hearing a secondary, echoey version of the characters voice - for example, in an awkward first date scene - we read his crushing self analysis with our own inner voice, a background narrator speaking thoughts we literally can hear only in our heads.
Although I always switch subtitles off in games (who needs everything over explained and constantly restated like that?!) when it comes to the big screen I have no such issue. Because subtitles don't have to be a reason NOT to see a movie! Which, ironically, goes without saying
Can you make a video on why The Thomas Crown Affair is so good next? And why it has been completely completely forgotten.
I only saw the original much later, and I have to say I enjoyed the remake more.
The best thing about the original is Faye Dunaway's outfits
@@pennyfarting And the amazing split-screen heist scene. The effort that must have gone into that using just optical printing techniques is incredible.
Patrick! I just rewatched this movie with family (thanks for the rec).
I realized that even the opening title card was playing with language. The first word (red) is fully in Russian/Cyrillic (красный), whereas October is in a hybrid: ОКТIABR. The actual Russian translation would be Октябрь. So it took the “окт” from real translation and IABR to phonetically finish the Russian word with Latin/English letters, before they both switch to “Red October.”
Just something fun I noticed. Not sure if someone already mentioned it in the comments.
At 8 minutes in, you mention the translator switch. There is a very similar scene in Lost Season 1 Episode 9 (again roughly 8mins in). The camera zooms into Sayid Jarah's mouth and then pans across the POWs head and he begins to speak english.
New levels of appreciation for directors and films with each new video you post - GOOD WORK
Gotta throw this in: My perfect subtitle experience as a German was my exchange year to North Carolina in 2009/2010. Back then in early 2010 I watched the American cut of Inglorious Basterds and given my then better knowledge of French I was the only one among my American friends to experience the movie in its full glory (apart from some french details and that short Italian scene at the movie theatre) without the need of barely any subtitles.
How was their German? Russian pronunciation in Hollywood movies sucks nearly every time.
@@StanNotSoSaint They cast German/Austrian actors for the German roles and even made Michael Fassbenders English accent when speaking German a plot point, so it was spot on.
Hit & Run, a Netflix show that takes place half in Tel Aviv and half in New York does some interesting things with language as well with some characters fluent in Hebrew, some that know a little, some that know none. It creates tons of tension and power dynamics.
It really cannot be overstated how phenomenal your videos have gotten during quarantine.
theres a quaver rest at the beginning of "the rugrats" theme.
Flipping the pen in the middle of a sentence at 09:50 subliminally shows Patrick's talent.
I always interpreted Ramius replying "It is." in English as him actually shifting to English for Jack Ryan's sake. It implies "You speak a little Russian. That's smart. I speak a little English."
I would have to go back an rewatch the movie to see how that interpretation holds up, though.
Yeah that's it, everyone's speaking English from that point.
You are such a creative person. I truly love when I see a video of yours pop up. I know it will be the best quality you can do, and unique. So thank you. Specially in these times. And to all your friends and Charles!
I kinda love that the best use of transitioning from subtitles to English are BOTH McTiernan films!
(BIG fan of THE 13TH WARRIOR)
And, YES, we need to start the McTiernan-issance!
As someone currently learning several languages, I’ve actually found a new appreciation for films that do go as far as to have characters speaking natural dialects. For instance, in Tarantino’s Inglorious Basterds, which has almost two thirds of the cast speaking in French for much of the time, apart from a few scenes when characters speak in German, and the Americans speak almost exclusively English except for Aldo’s Italian. Funnily enough, the only other real linguist of the movie is the main villain, who speaks fluent English, French, German (I assume) and Italian.
Antino Banderas picked up that "Icelandic" faster then i could have, and i'm Icelandic. Also i'm shocked by Charls actions this episode, he needs help.
I literally watched this movie just so i could get this video. A patrick's video is always a good recommendation
13:35 - Yeah! Physical media forever! I'm with ya!
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
This is one of the greatest tricks in cinema. Absolutely love that you have done a video on this. It basically folds what could have been an average submarine film (K19, U-571 etc) into a cinema masterpiece on a single word and using a trick that everyone understands without requiring a clever explanation to the audience.
13th Warrior was one of like ten VHS movies I had as a kid, musta seen it a dozen times. My brother and I still quote the mentioned scene at each other sometimes. "Mi hrotes vants" "So comma diVESTA!" and of course "DoNOT forTELL meWIFE forAYE willget nosupper whenYAI comehyome toNIGHT." The rhythmic line delivery really stamps it in the brain.
Phenomenal, pitch-perfect work as always! Thank you.
I love the way you're still bringing in Charl... and like to think of how confused newcomers must be coming to the channel.
This new show format is amazing, well done and thank you
Patrick’s beard is mesmerizing and this format is suiting him better than I originally thought it would! He’s super professional with his filming and editing of his pre-covid vids but this “locked in” series shows his content can stand on its own! Great job Pat!
I can't believe Charl predicted the whole Goya beans mess. That is one genius coconut.
There are not nearly enough TH-cam think-pieces on Hunt for Red October. Yay!
I literally love everything about this video. Everything.
This is a really good pivot/style for you Patrick, I hope you get more views for it, your work deserves it.
I've gotta say Pat, you've adapted very well to working in quarantine - continuing to put out high quality content despite the restrictions.
*one of these days we'll get him talkin about about wood working.....and it'll be the finest episode of whatever this talk show is called" me😂🤣😭🤮😱⚰️
Everything about this is wonderful ❤ I'm aaaall about those musical interludes!
The language learning process in The 13th Warrior was one of my favorite bits of filmmaking.
I actually really want to hear a full cover of Everybody Wants to Rule the World
Incredible video! Love to see analysis of something so relatively niche, yet indelible and totally worthy of exploration.
Man Patrick, I really underestimated how funny and creative you are. You’ve gotten a lot better at creative content along with movie analysis.
In every one of these videos I stick around for the ad thinking Jake's politics corner is coming, yet you manage to fool me every single time
So awesome brudda 🤙🏿🌌🤲🏿 the way you're able to pinpoint and deeply analyze specific moments in movies i REALLY LOVE only to make me love those movies even more LITERALLY saying out loud "i knew i loved this movie because of that." 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Perfect. This is definitely the best covid time talk show.
Excellent. I loved his early movies (to paraphrase Stardust Memories) but he did make some stickers too. Medicine Man, RollerBall. But, this movie is always one of my favourites.
When my father showed me Red October, I was about eight years old and I remember being overwhelmed by the color, the sound effects and the score. But it was the last scenes bathed in half light when Jack starts communicating in Subtitles that always gave me the greatest feeling of triumph! I LOVE Red October and thank you for explaining why!
Awesome video, Patrick! I'm a sucker for subtitles, particularly when they're also used creatively in terms of style or placement (think: recent examples John Wick or Baby Driver). From what I recall, McTiernan also really nailed the language blend in The 13th Warrior.
Edit: 14:14 ...and of course you would start mentioning The 13th Warrior _right_ after I posted my comment 😂
Well done, great video that gave me a new perspective on the Movie.
i love that the quality keeps getting better and better
The Hunt for Red October was my favorite movie as a kid, and I'm over the moon to see it getting featured on this channel. Well done! I've gotta make one small correction as I re-situate my glasses upon the bridge of my nose. When they make the language switch the political officer is reading from the Bhagavad Gita, not Revelations. As Captain Ramius says in his very next line: "itsh an anshient Hindu text, quoted by an American." The American he's referring to is J Robert Oppenheimer, who was reflecting on his building a doomsday weapon. You can see the quote here: th-cam.com/video/dus_M4sn0_I/w-d-xo.html
... and the book he's not reading from is Revelation.
well done with the Sean Connery transcription ;-)
No, the "armageddon" quote is Revelation 16:15, it's the next quote "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" that's from the Bhagavad Gita.
@@SonofSethoitae Thank you, I stand corrected. The way the dialog plays out in the scene is a little misleading. Although I think it can be said that the political officer is reading a book that is quoting from both the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita.
@@evanmcclellan7267 I believe the book itself is the Bible, hence Revelations; the quote from the Bhagavad Gita was written in the margins. As Ramius states, the book belonged to his wife, who also inscribed the quote in the margin.
It was a pretty great film. I like to compare it to Crimson Tide as an case study of the PG-13 film being better than the R film, to prove that can happen even when there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the R film.
Jake and Rachel's music cues for this episode were all banging tunes. Been really enjoying this series of videos so far, and this particular video was fascinating! I never deeply considered the distance between an English speaking audience and non-English speaking characters, and it's fascinating to see McTiernan combat that. I'll try and watch the film at some point.
Just putting this out there, I wrote my undergrad thesis on the Hunt for Red October
Link?
Link.pleasd
Great video, as always! Better be careful, I heard those late night talks how are feeling threatened by the quality of your work (as they rightly should be).
Thank you for being creative enough to maintain such quality in lockdown!
A curiosity about the script apparently Sean Connery wasn't satisfied by his dialogue so he asked John Milius the writer of Apocalypse Now to rewrite them.
Finally, I thought I was the only one to recall the connection between the 13th Warrior and The Hunt for Red October via the use of subtitles and language, thank you Patrick, never change.
Another insightful video!
I'm talking of course about Mat's analysis of Rugrats, but the Red October stuff was good too
This is my absolute favorite TH-cam channel. If I had a YT channel, this is what I would try to copy.
Fantastic video Patrick, love the script analysis.
This is a really good format.
Brilliant across the board. Special shout-out to the music!
Great video! Hunt is definitely the best of the three early Jack Ryan movies. Often I think about how good the printer scene in Clear and Present Danger is too. Plus it's got Henry Czerny in it. Good stuff.
Another great example is Inglorious Basterds. The uses of subtitles and language in that movie are genius.
0/10, no mention of Tim Curry in probably his most mainstream role as the Soviet ship's doctor.
Hey Patrick, I love how you're adapting to the lockdown. One thing I'd suggest though would be to use "J cuts" to enhance the comedic moments and timing between you and Jake.
Funny how most of this moot when you live in Finland and 90% of media is subtitled and most stuff in Finnish are smaller productions of comedy/drama genres.
That scene from the 13th warrior always struck me and I brought it up in conversations over the years even though I only ever saw it once or twice as a kid. I never realized McTiernan directed it or where the translation idea came from until today!
The Hunt for Red October was one of the few movies where the movie was better than the book! The fatherly figure dynamic that Connery's character had with both the Americans and the Russians was memorable.
Appreciate the 13th Warrior shoutout, one of my favorite movies.
Lmao Patrick's beard is turning him into an American version of Simon from Today I Found Out.
Also Patrick's parents are the sweetest and I hope they continue to appear in his videos even after quarantine.
Oh god, he does.
Okay, this was amazing, never thought of the film like that...
I graduated High School in 1990...the optimism that was in the air at that time was palpable. Anything was possible. The thought of the U.S. and Russia working together on everything from foreign trade, to fighting international terrorism, was awe inspiring. Then there was the commercial possibilities with Russia itself given that Russia has almost every natural resource on earth and most were literally untapped! The vision of positive US / Russia relations was in H.D. Thinking back on it now, brings a few tears tbh because of what could have been. I'd love to see it again before I'm gone.
My Charl, The 13th Warrior was one of those gems I stumbled upon as a kid and didn't quite understand why it ~felt~ so good
Hey man love the show! You are single handedly paying the Karmic debts owed to John McTiernan, great stuff. Just to put it out there Extraction was shot in India but it's based in Dhaka, Bangladesh and they're speaking a mix of English, Hindi and Bengali. Stay cool man