About using the terminal, i can imagine that Linus did what I did when I started with Linux, google how to do x, and many if not all guides/tutorials online say to use the terminal and sudo everything, on top of guilt tripping anyone who doesn't want to touch the terminal lol
I had the exact same situation when I was learning Linux way back in the day. Every single guide was just “paste this into terminal.” Effective, but none of it screamed “ready for daily driving.”
The issue with the file extension being .sh but it not being an sh file is something that would trip up Windows users. Same function on Windows would give a .html. Makes sense tbh.
One nitpicks with Linux I have from a user perspective is, that when some applications crash, they do so silently. E.g. some of the problems described in the video happen to me after a driver or kernel update. Now Pamac says that a restart is recommended, but that's relatively new. Anyways, if I try to use a kernel module after the update that hasn't been loaded before, problems arise. That these problems happen is not the issue! But, the applications can crash because they rely on a module that hasn't been loaded and won't load until the reboot is done. E.g. opening an application that uses 3D graphics. Some won't start, some crash, some just display a black screen. If I forgot I updated earlier, it's confusing as hell. When applications crash, it happens silent. like, I click on the icon, wait and nothing happens. No message, nothing. Opening the application from comman often prints out an error message that gives a hint what went wrong. But on GUI? Nothing. I wish there was a message "Application X ended unexpected, click Details for more!" with the same log as I'd see from the console in the details. That would help sooooo much with usability. Again, this is a nitpick. By now I know that reboots are often needed (or at least log off/in again), but the quiet failures are not nice.
17:38 yep. I'm part of these people. I tried this challenge after the first video came out. I've been using Linux on a daily basis for ~9 months now. Had previous experiences with tons of VMs and some dual boots. AMD GPU, Intel CPU, no proprietary hardware, had a flawless experience and I'm planning on continuing using it :)
That is great to hear! Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience! Also welcome to the TuxDigital Community. If you like podcasts you might want to check out Destination Linux and This Week in Linux which are podcasts that I host at tuxdigital.com 😎👍
I like your take on this the best. You come across like a patient teacher aware of the confusion and critical of the mistakes but in a constructive manner rather than a negative one. Always a pleasure to watch your vids :)
One of the better reaction videos. You get how they approached this and understand that they are not out to five the community a hard time. Using there videos as a training tool would be a good idea. Sometime the developers forget that new users the the OS will not have the knowledge they think as basic. I see this in a lot of manuals and tutorials. People forget that their system is optimally reconfigured as they have done similar task before and skip the "basic" steps. The user should know that, right?
4:49 "Why is Linux using the terminal? You could use the gui. Let's just go to the website and follow their commands, boom, done" [commands on obs website are for the terminal and require sudo] While I get your overall point, c'mon lol.
The "New" Nvec that they are talking about is the one that came out with "Turing" based GPUS AKA 2000 and 1600 series GPUS and newer. The old 1000 series and older Nvec might show up just fine in OBS and similar software BUT its the "new" one in RTX cards that might not. Don't know if it's a problem or not honestly Haven't messed with Linux and OBS on an RTX machine. Also Yes AMD USE to be be a HUGE NOPE on Linux back in the Day while NVIDIA was the GOTO GPU thanks to that. Now AMD is a BIG NOPE on Windows if you plan on utilizing OpenGL software such as Emulators while Nvidia is the Goto for that. So yeah
NVENC New has nothing to do with the new cards btw. It basically means zero copy aka no roundtrip through system RAM. You could also say NVENC Ffmpeg (no zero copy) and NVENC New (nvEncodeAPI) The new NVENC implementation is (for now) windows exclusive. I think there is a WIP to have it on Linux perhaps even a PR but don't quote me on that I don't quite remember. Oh and RTX cards still work with the "old" Ffmpeg based NVENC and older cards with the new nvEncodeAPI based one.
@@go-away-5555 You are perhaps talking about the differences in the architecture of the nvenc encoders / chips itself. For the option in OBS though this is not of relevance.
@Michael Tunnell - TuxDigital and flatpaks introduce new problems such as package bloat and desktop-app theme and config communication issues! OH and the requirement that all developers add yet another packaging system to their build cycles. (or the flatpak ends up being the inferior outdated version, yes this is my experience)
@@PRiMETECHAU package bloat is one of the most crazy arguments linux is basicly the only "mainstream" os that still does shared objects(in one form or another) for anything but most core SOs (think glibc and such). same with still not having any kind of write protection for system files (hell even windows has at least something ), immutable file system would be the best option And just like with packages there are some attempts that are popular with some people (like fedora silverblue) ironicly or maybe not so much ironic venn diagram of supporters of immutable rootfs's in linux and universal packaging formats(flatpac, snap(im more in favour of snap), appimage) is basicly a circle with little that doesnt overlap
36:16 they actually said this. That they already know windows issues and that's why seems like windows just works but that's definitely not the case. They are gonna be doing some sort of challenge with win11 apparently
I guess I can be proud of the fact that I've had a lot less issues switching to linux than a guy that apparently has been working in the tech industry for the last 30 years.
28:10 it's named Canary because of the "Canary in a coal mine" metaphor, which is based on the real practice of keeping a small bird in a coal mine and checking it occasionally. If the Canary dies you know there wss a carbon monoxide or other toxic gas issue and to evacuate all humans. Chrome and Discord are not the only software with Canary releases. The term in software was popularized by Martin Fowler.
I've seen a few "reactions" to this video now, and I agree with the other comments that yours has been the most constructive in my opinion. You've nicely explained how these misconceptions or issues can happen, and have also acknowledged and elaborated on both "sides". Big thumbs up from me :)
Thank you very much for the kind words. I'm glad the video came across as I intended it to. My goal for my reaction videos is not to beatup on the subjects but rather use their experiences as a jumping off point to share advice or explain nuances that are often overlooked so I'm very happy to know that is how it is being interpreted. 😎👍
@@michael_tunnell I think it was quite clear that was you goal, and I really value that. While others have also brought up good points, they were often a bit one-sided and quick with their reactions, e.g. "just use supported hardware". Your balanced take on this video has been the first one which pretty much fully satisfied my expectations for a reaction like this. I'm looking forward to your further coverage and other content :)
18:44 exactly i have kde plasma and when i want to open (in lxqt DE) dolphin the file manager it asks me if i want to open it (opens idk some information's or what) or execute it(basically launch Dolphin) i am not savy linux user so if i made any error sorry
Linux does a very similar thing with file extensions OR magic numbers in the file header (it can be configured to use either or both). You can configure the program that acts on the file type by default using mime types. I understand Linus' frustration about this but Linux is not Windows and doesn't need to be. It's not more or less confusing it's simply different and something you have to get used to anytime you use something new. I wish I came into this with a more open mind and was more willing to actually learn.
I switched this year and had a similar experience at first - I've been a lifelong Windows gamer with all of the expected troubleshooting experience that comes with. I thought that experience would be helpful but it actually winds up being more of a handicap that requires you to unlearn much of it. After several months though, I'm a huge fan. :)
19:04 Scripts aren't executable by default. If you download a tar, the executable permissions are retained after extraction, but copying/downloading a script will not make it executable.
Yes... and Linus is a Windows guy, so what were your initial reactions when you learned about that circumstance when starting with Linux? And no, don't pull up the RTFM card because that is cheating in the context of my question. Point is, people who just switched don't know any better and do not expect it to be a thing.
@@MegaManNeo Wow. You really did post everywhere. Many many years ago. First learning how to do the script thing was quirky and confusing to start. It reminded me of the batch file wizardry that I'd once heard about. It must have been a challenge to get one's head around. And I'm sure I'd destroyed many a desktop-environment/operating-system in my early days. The situations aren't ideal and computing in general could be developed with more UX in mind.--- as for the "linus fumbles through download" situation goes - my respect for him has changed. I can no longer feel assured of his software knowledge. Or at least internet knowledge. Linux ability aside, his on screen behaviour showed a skill level thats on par with Grandma. An ineptitude that I'd never thought could come from someone as Tech savvy as someone like him. Was he exhausted? Had he never touched a HTML file before? Was the turbulent web of the late 90s not interesting enough for young Linus? Everything else has been Linux related. That .sh problem broke me. Most of his mistakes are noob internet user stuff. It's just a surprise to me that Linus doesn't know how to "internet" or "computer" sometimes.
@@MatthewWilliamsX Just shows that despite of my _hate_ for the Linux community I actually want to enjoy the system and hope for serious improvements. Therefore I too take Linus' attempt on it very serious as he pulled the newbie card and tries to go through the Linux experience as a complete newcomer to computers or very casual user. If it was different he would used another distro - probably also Ubuntu based - for certain and asked Anthony or Wendell for help. But what he tried to accomplish is to show Linux users and developers what it actually feels like for inexperienced people to switch from something they probably grew up with to another product that gets suddenly recommended every once in a while and with that in a wide variety of flavors.
@@MegaManNeo I understand your point but in this day and age, shouldn't Windows users be concerned about downloading ANY kind of executable from an unknown source? In this case, github was the source but clearly Linux didn't know how to use it so for the sake of argument, it was pretty much "unknown".
I think this is the best reaction is saw for this video until now. One of the core problems that i see in general with trying linux is the "unsupported hardware problem". The linuxexperience can be extremely different depending on the hardware in use. On (offically) compatible hardware linux is much easier to setup than even windows and gives you a great out of the box experience. If you have problematic hardware on the other side the experience will shift to a more or less unpleasant event depending on your general pc skills. In some cases your hardware won't work at all. Another problem is the expectation that everything has to just work on linux like it would do on windows. It is kind of strange because no MAC user would expect his system to work or behave like a windows machine and be compareable in hardware or software compatibility. Switching to linux requires learning new things and adjusting the software and hardware you use to the OS and not the other way around. This is just a fact in my opinon as it is with any other "different" operating system. Great reaction. Greetings form germany.
Changing the extension is ONE way of Computer viruses to enter MS Windows computers. Linux LOOKS into the file if you want to know a what it is. Despite what the file name is. And if the file is marked as program, it will look what type of program it is and start it properly. Random downloaded files should not be marked as a program. The should be downloaded as ordinary files. IF you know what you do, you can check and then mark it as a program. Again that is when Linus think that it should work as MS Windows. Linux is not MS Windows, and MS Windows is not Linux. As it is not OSX.
Linus's choice of distro was the biggest cause of his problems. I like both Linux and Windows, but it does depend on what I'm doing. I edit videos on occasion and haven't had much success in getting an editor for Linux that I enjoyed using.
Regarding the apt-get obs-studio, as a noob that switched to Ubuntu for a while (during the Windows Vista days until Unity kinda broke my Ubuntu experience and I went back to Windows 7), I totally get why he'd go into the terminal and do that. The cool thing that struck me about Linux when I started with Ubuntu was that a lot of things are actually easier in the terminal and apt-get was one of those things. When you know the exact name of what you want to install it sometimes easier to do it with apt-get rather than scrolling through the software center. I acknowledge it's weird but at the same time it isn't. TL;DR: when people have some notions of Ubuntu it's not that weird that you will do a few things like some apt-get in the terminal
I think the reason Linus decided to go with the terminal to install OBS was because if you go on their website and press on the linux button on the homepage it gives you instructions on how to install in depending on your distro. The instructions are decent but aren't as clear cut as one would like. Going on the website for a piece of software is pretty standard routine for a windows user, which is probably why that was his first instinct to go on there. This is just speculation tough so yeah
I don't believe that happened because its very clear as to what command to use when you go to that page. He later goes to that page in the video and then sees it is not apt. This suggests he simply assumed every distro is apt
I love Pamac, sometimes even for dependecies for themes. I started with ubuntu and therefore learned the apt commands but when I moved to manjaro pamac was all I ever used. I don't have to whip out the terminal.
We need to work on getting away from lumping every distribution into a single "Linux" bucket. Manjaro is different from Mint is different from Slackware is different ...
No, I think you guys are so proud and overconfident of your Linux knowledge after 3-5 years of use that you used to forget how the vast majority of user orientated computer systems work. Including marketing.
That basically can't happen. The reason is that developers all have different philosophies for what they're providing to users. That's why forks get created and new projects get started from scratch.
Fedora's GUI package installer recently changed so that when you open it the first time, it prompts you to add 3rd party repos/snaps/flatpacks I think that's a good way to do it
I really like your reactions, you're very kind to us Linux noobs and just a pleasant person to listen to and you also have the most reasonable takes. From all the people reacting to Linus' challenge you're my favorite one, that's why I subscribed after the first video and I've been watching all your stuff ever since. Really glad I found your channel!
Agreed. Same boat. If nothing else - the LTT Linux challenge has introduced me to a whole new slew of Linux personalities that wouldn't have been on my radar otherwise. Mostly thanks to the reaction video format - and the satisfaction of hearing another persons opinion in a subject that can leave you feeling isolated.
Thank you both very much for the kind words. I'm glad the video came across as I intended it to. My goal for my reaction videos is not to beatup on the people in the videos but rather use their experiences as a jumping off point to share advice or explain nuances that are often overlooked so I'm very happy to know that is how it is being interpreted. 😎 Thank you very much for subscribing and I hope I can continue to keep the favorite spot. 🐧👍
I find Linus very annoying and hard to follow. He was one of my first channels to learn the ins and outs of gaming. But I felt disappointed when I found out that his channel is more about his ego than what is to help. I decided to stop watching him. In this challenge, he purposely acted like a clown to gain publicity at the cost of these great teaching channels. He is laughing all the way to the bank.
You see, early on you say you say "Should be simple" because you know it already, and even if you do, it often isn't that simple because things don't work as they should .. often times. My feedback in turn to you is to say you are to used to it, so it's normal, but, it's exactly these niggling issues that can be a pain for new comers and you don't realise it because you've been using it for years. Anything including streaming, audio devices is always, and I mean ALWAYS a gamble on Linux. That's the status, realistically speaking. Later on you do backtrack a bit :)
That is possible for sure. I think he assumed he had to for some reason. Pamac is on pinned apps section so I think he just skipped it over going to the terminal.
> maybe we can improve desktop experience That would require the community (or sorry, communitIES because you are special snowflakes) to accept that their constant fighting and aim for knowing the terminal as well as nonsense talk about what distro is the best is actually not productive at all and the real progress for Linux only occurs in server space.
@@AllanSavolainen As a Plasma user, I'd honestly like the idea of simplifying the menus, potentially hide those advanced features behind switches one has to toggle too like it's a thing in KODI for instance or simply put Android when you change any system settings.
@@TuxPeng I mean Luke also had more experience with Linux before the challenge than Linus did. He also took a more new comer friendly distro after Linus attempt to use one of those ended quite catastrophic.
I agree that the linux userspace needs a huge gui renaissance in order to be usable for more people. However, ... as a developer i can explain why a lot of linux applications don't have guis or have really bad guis. TL;DR: gui apps are hard to make and good UX design takes more than proper programming experience. FULL EXPLANATION First of guis are WAY harder to program than u might think. A lot of linux applications i use everyday are maintained by small teams or a single person; they can't be expected to also provide a very time costing gui version of their hobby project. Second of making actually GOOD guis takes more than just programming, it takes proper UX development. This is why a lot of intermediate/advanced linux users prefer to just use the terminal, because the gui options just kind of suck.
@@comfysage I totally sympathize, I am actually a software dev myself and I know I'm not properly equipped for UI/UX development conversations. I'm not saying it's easy, or that the avg Linux dev would know how, but regardless it 1000% has to take place. This is a reality. We need more UX trained devs in the Linux space.
30:30 I commented this on the LTT video too, but the Slack implementation is HORRIBLE. Even for Electron. A buggy, resource hog, mess. Each version that gets shat out to update with their useless "enhancements" that nobody asked for consistently breaks some other integration. Truly a massive dumpster fire.
No can move from Windows to Linux without frustrations. Its all brand new and it takes time to acclimate. Where is that discussion? It takes TIME! Linux is fun, fun to learn and fun to try new software. I was gaming with Steam in Wine long before Proton, and showing my family and friends what it could do. Fallout 3 worked fabulous that way. To me the frustrations are natural, and part of the journey.. I can tolerate and work through them much easier..
24:31 this is a huge bragging point in Linux communities. SUSE even has that whole song "Don't Reboot - Just Patch" about how you can update in place. Yes updating a process without restarting it and updating and OS without restarting it are very different things, but try explaining that to your grandma. Or Linus/Luke.
== Micheal....among you, Wendell from Level1Techs, Anthony from LMG, and Chris Titus Tech,...I'D LOVE to see and hear the four of you on a colab video. cheers man!
A friend of mine who worships Linux sent me a link to this. I don’t know why people try so hard to get people to switch over to Linux when they are already content with windows. All of my software runs on windows and I know how to navigate windows settings so why should I change? I should throw away an operating system that I’m used to and paid for for something that’s free and strange to me. If and when Windows becomes a subscription only product I may consider a gradual transition to Linux but until then I’m happy where I’m at.
29:00 - Linus' Problem with the volumes is, as far as i know, a problem that originates from the maintainer of manjaro-pulseaudio and is configured in pulseaudio. By default the volumes work similarly tro the windows mixer, where all levels are "connected" and raising the applicationlevel also raises the "device" level. You can deactivate it by setting "flat-volumes" to "no" and restore the "good" (in my opinion) master volume levels per device. Buuuuuut that is nowhere to be found anywhere in the control panels configurations but instead hidden inside an configuration file that you have to know. Edit: Ooooh and one quick note: They call this thing btw "a feature" where i find it irritating. And it could push the volume to 100% because the notification thingy wants to get something out and is not shutted…
I think the 2nd biggest stake against linux is the lack of support from propietary hardware that demands proprietary software. I remember thinking it was stupid that i couldnt just use my DSLR as a webcam unless i had some random back end software from canon and i think it's dumb now. Personally i dont think it's all too hard to adapt for, it's a matter of time and resources and to be frank going the extra mile increases the bottom line with sales for those ON linux who want to buy your hardware but cant because it isnt supported. Viewed another way - you control the market on Linux because other developers arent supporting it. They dont need to create a perfect software - just good enough to support the most popular disros likely Debian and then Ubuntu, make it open source and the community can pull the rest together for their specific distros.
I've tried Linux a few times over the years, but I've never managed more than a month before returning to Windows. The main point of friction has been simply that certain hardware I want to use either didn't work or was crippled. That's not the fault of Linux, it's the lack of hardware manufacturer support. The problem is the userbase is so small that it doesn't make economic sense for the manufacturer to provide support. Then that in turn limits the size of the userbase. Although I'm a Windows user I've never been happy with the corporate nonsense that comes from Microsoft in the name of profit. I want an OS where I feel like I own my own computer. I hope Linux gains traction, maybe things like the steam deck will facilitate that. I live in hope.
20:51 for a single file like he was trying to download it's better to right click save the raw file format button 21:12 it is a github thing, but a lot of Linux usage relies on github nowadays. 30:36 Luke making the correct choice, lol
I wonder whether the screen capture thing is related to wayland. I have the issue that I cannot share screens in MS Teams when using wayland, but on Xorg it's no problem. If I'd guess this is related due to security implications, but really there should be something like a system-wide permission dialog "Do you want to allow application X to record the screen or parts thereof"
When using linux-unfriendly hardware and linux-unfriendly software don't expect to have a "user-friendly" experience setting it up. It can be done but needs some effort. Sad but true. Why is it sad but true? Because all of us at some point first started on our linux journey with hardware/software that was already optimized for windows or macos. Those who stayed saw the superiority of the linux os and henceforth proceeded voting with our wallets. We simply ended up boycotting hardware/software that was linux unfriendly. So our experiences eventually ended up being plug and play and far superior to any windows/macos machine.
@blacknester , no can do. You will have to go through what i went through when existing hardware/software was linux incompatible and had no money to replace it. I used the only resource humans have in abundance, our brains, and made it work. Can't spend neither money, nor willing to put in the effort then I will be completely honest with you, linux ain't ready for you and you have to go back to the end of the waiting line. Eventually we will pick you up for the ride when/if linux becomes baby-proof.
Speaking of hardware support for example, i use a creative sound card. If i used integrated pile of discarded metal my experience would be less broken but i have better quality much better sounding device. Historically, creative labs devices, being very popular audio brand are . . .unsupported in linux or whatever support there is its broken to dust. On my particular model linux did not detect any mic input, i had to buy sperate generic-hid-compliant-usb microphone to use comms. Second thing is listening experience, i buy, subscribe and listen to higher quality music so an option to change basic things like bit depth and frequency from the default lowest ever possible setting is kinda required. Such a setting panel is available under windows for both my soundcards even with generic windows audio driver, and such option panel existed in windows since windows 95.. . . yet linux STILL after 22 years doesnt have it. Neither under pulse audio or pulsewire, no quality, or eq options what so ever, just a volume slider.
Hey, I have AMD hardware - a Renoir iGPU in my Ryzen 5 4500U cannot be woken up from sleep. It is not supported. And it persist in the newest kernels. Just a side note. EDIT - I've read of some ACPI patches that might help with that, but an updated kernel/firmware should fix it, yet it does not. BUT - Thank you for spendind time on dissecting the video and commenting from your (experienced Linux user) point of view. I think both videos (from Linus and yourself) serve a purpose for the community, and Windows guys that take into consideration switching to Linux should be aware of both points of view. It is important to educate people - and also acknowledging the fact not everything works in Linux the way it works in Windows (even the same software) - telling otherwise is a lie, essentially. Some Linux promoting channel focus only on ways Linux is awesome - and yes, it is awesome, but it should be clearly stated - not for every use case (depending on your hardware, for instance) and not for every user. And your channel underlines that fact, which is great!
🎉Remember: **Syntax is your wand**, indentation your incantation. And when the sun peeks over the horizon, casting shadows upon your keyboard, you'll know-you've danced with caffeine's muse. May your code compile swiftly, your loops be infinite (but not too infinite), and your dreams be caffeinated! ☕🌙✨
I disagree about the terminal being an average user issue, anytime you google something the site insists that you use the terminal. And most distros don't make it clear that they have an app store, it would be nice during the initial setup the walk you through or just mention the app store. Plus most of their app store search kind of suck
@@michael_tunnell I apologize after re-reading my comment it is apparent my thoughts didn't come out clear. I was disagreeing with the statement that Linus using the terminal instead of the "App store" or desktop package manager is not an average user problem. It could be I misunderstood your statement but from what i understood you were trying to say the average user would just use the desktop package manager instead of the terminal. I was refuting trying to state that most distros do not make it apparent that they have a desktop package manager/App store. and the immediate instinct of most people if they don't know how or where to install something they go to Google and type in "How to install OBS on Linux". and most walk throughs online usually assume you are using a Debian or Ubuntu based system and walk you through the process via the terminal since that is one of the few standard features in Linux. and if you are using any distro that is not using Debian or Ubuntu as a base it can cause new users to get confused since package managers are a foreign concept to Windows users and Mac users. Macs you either use the default apps or get it from the App store and if its not there you get it from the software developers website and go through a install wizard. its pretty much the same with windows but with more reliance on the websites.
23:28 I would still call this a Linux issue, even tho it is a PulseAudio issue, because PulseAudio is a Linux backend. I've never heard of anyone running PulseAudio on macOS or Windows.
My point was Fedora does not have this issue as pipewire handles it instead. Is it Linux? Yes but its not all Linux distros. I guess I should have worded it as "not a problem for all of Linux"
Playing devils advocate though.. if you look up directions on how to install pretty much anything.. you're almost never going to encounter someone saying open the software store.. It's usually starting off with "open up a terminal window" . Yeah, it could be because bash or terminal is the common element.. but you have to admit, a lot of things can be done in the gui and most walkthroughs start in the terminal..
There are several Linux apps (with different levels of hackiness) that can control an Elgato Keylight. I've successfully used a nifty little Gnome menu bar extension.
ini changes are big plus, not a minus for PC gaming. So many games have limited graphics options (none on consoles). Having to tinker to turn off motion blur is much betetr than having to play with it. But if you use games as intended, then using steam for example is as simple as a console. That ini comparison to the tinkering to game on Linux doesn't make much sense. It's an option (as are mods) but it's rarely necessary. Gaming (on a broadly working setup) is almost always pressing buy, download and then play. I remember pc gaming times where that was NOT the case. For Linux you have to tinker to get things, even "just" normal games working. And if you use it you are likely fine with tnkering that/enjoy it.
My point is that true tinkering in Linux is about the same these days as it is for Windows. Sure there are exceptions where a game won't play but most of the time it is buy, download and play these days thanks to Valve and Proton. I think people should not be complaining about games not working on Linux because 80% of games aren't made for Linux so the fact that thousands still work should be astonishing to take games made for a different platform and make them work on another. I consider that impressive. Besides my point about Windows is that some games require tinkering just to work at all and yet practically every game is made for Windows, that is rather sad.
@@michael_tunnell cool I got a reply. Lol, this is how I found your channel. I agree with you and I topically give people interested in Linux a mint live USB... Or Kali if the just need the windows feel, as Kali has $kailundercover. "I don't think you need sudo permissions" but it basically looks identical to a windows system. Plus I like the wow factor when I do give them a Kali USB, they start exploring and see all the normal software but when they see the pen-testing software the like glow.. and as with the right DE it's user friendly.. I usually explain the open source ethos, and how you can look at, change, and fork anything license as open source.. that you now have unlimited power limited only by what you know. It really motivated them to learn. But ya if it's a random person I only have a few seconds to suggest something I'd suggest Linux mint or Ubuntu. Lol I use Arch but the way lol, (Artix because systemd is not runnit). Anyways I am liking your content 🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧
I try to read and reply as much as possible. I don't always get to reply but I try to do it as much as I can. :D I think Linux Mint is a solid choice for a first distro in many cases. However, I would recommend not giving anyone Kali for similar reasons to Arch but Kali is also problematic in its own way because that distro is not designed to be used as a daily driver distro. It is designed to break into systems not keep people out of it. This is also something Kali themselves say that they recommend not using it for a day to day OS and only for its intended purpose. Beginners should stay away from this as much as possible, with the only exception for people who genuinely want to learn the technology of what Kali does. I like the unlimited power part you mentioned, that is one of the best things about the ecosystem and the philosophy behind it. This was one of the reasons I switched myself. :D I am glad you enjoy my content, thank you for commenting. I hope you have an awesome day!
GBM Buffer Manager... I'll go look that up but is that why I had to use their proprietary (crappy) screen placement utility when using multiple monitors? I ditched them because of that crap.
It's still pretty weird though. '-y' is a flag that comes after the command you are trying to confirm (the same would be the case if 'yes' was also a valid argument or flag). This is the same way it works on MacOS and I can't imagine it's that much different on Windows.
i thought linus was super dumb for downloading the webpage instead of the file, but actually if you do the 'save link as...' thing it will download as '.sh' or '.cpp' or w/e not like 'example.sh.html' or anything like that, so it does seem like you get the right thing.
I think you completely missed the point about third-party vendors not supporting Linux. You want to shrug it off as "Yeah, those vendors should support Linux" and leave it at that. But for the consumer, that's largely irrelevant. Apple had to work, and continues to work, really hard to ensure certain vendors support their devices. Microsoft at one time had to do the same when it wasn't the dominant player it is today. If Linux is to become mainstream, for there ever to be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" then at least one if not more Distros need to find a way to persuade, pressure, and/or bribe vendors to support Linux. If that never happens, then you have to accept that Linux will never be a mainstream consumer desktop OS alongside Windows or Mac. And in that case, you should stop PROMOTING it as a viable alternative to such.
I still can't get a lot of gaming hardware to be configured properly in Mac though, and that is considered a viable alternative. Even outside of linux this keeps happening. I would still consider linux a viable alternative, at least until Mac gets full compatibility with all my 'windows only' configuration options for devices.
i switched from windows 7 to popos to kubuntu in last 4 weeks. i formatted my windows ssd yesterday to use it as a steam library formated as ext4! it wasnt hard. now i dont miss windows. yesterday before deleting my windows ssd, i went for a last hoera in windows double check i copied everything i need etc etc! only 2 things i miss is folder.jpg not being picked up by dolphin, and redout enhanced edition game not working. all of my other games work flawlesly and better(more fps) on linux(steam and heroic)! linus is just a dunce
coming to this now as i've just switched to linux, and i ran into a similar issue to linus when trying to run an installer and it instead opened the text editor instead of running the file. i had to right click and then tell it to run as execeutable, which i felt should have been the first option when i downloaded the program installer direct from the website.
If the installer is a text file or a script then it’s likely not properly made for Linux or it’s some esoteric script for something specific. In this case, it shouldn’t be executed by default because that could be dangerous for people to just randomly install scripts from a website. Proper packages wouldn’t work like that, they would be in deb, rpm, Flatpak, or another kind of packaged format with a built in installer mechanism such as through the App Store in your distribution.
13:41 generally not a hardware driver though. These aren't typical windows programs. And I think it is fair to the comparison for Linux vs Windows. Even if the manufacturers make it difficult to port, it's a pro for windows and a con for Linux. 14:58 that's still a con against Linux. Any hardware you can find in bestbuy or on Amazon will work on Windows. Not guaranteed with Linux. It is TC Helicon / et al's fault, but like you said, for the Linux user it's an issue regardless of whose fault it is. 31:53 this too. It is Canon's fault, but it's another legitimate reason for some users not to use Linux. It's not like people making the Linux switch are coming into it with zero technology they want to use alongside it and are willing to buy every peripheral afterwards. Outside of mouse/keyboard, many people already own some sort of hardware that doesn't run with Linux. Mouse/keyboard might even have RGB control issues, or other non-HID feature issues like 1000hz polling rate on a gaming mouse or the pi switch button.
My concern with the move to pipewire is the lack of network support. Like I can hardly understand Jack let alone get it to run properly over a network 😭
If Linus would just do a normal pc setup he would have far less issues with linux installs. Dont add your extra hardware until the os its self is working. Regarding github: if you want a specific file and not the entire repo you can click on the file name then click the "RAW" tab on the right to get the text version which can be saved correnctly.
I will say, I made the exact same mistake with Github early on. Hovering over a file called "config.ini" in a Github project tree showed me a URL pointing to "config.ini", leading me to think it was pointing to the actual .ini file, not an html named after the .ini file.
I dont remember what I said here but I think I was reasonably understanding on this because not knowing how to use GitHub is going to be a common issue. GitHub used to make it easier with a download button in the sidebar but they chose to hide it to make it much harder because "reasons" so I totally understand why people would make that assumption.
Windows has stuff working and stop working for no reason all the time. Windows is a trash platform, the only reason it is popular in my opinion is because it has access to applications people want to use but other than that basically everyone hates windows itself lol
@@michael_tunnell Things break like that on Windows all the time. I agree. But, at least in my experience, a lot of work is concentrated on making mainstream stuff consistent on Windows. It's not so much Microsoft's effort as it is the individual developers, which is why it ends up being more consistent.
For the love of Linux, troubleshooting is just as brutal and from a consumer standpoint not user friendly at all. The guys behind pop!_OS improved the apt situation where you were easily capable of removing your desktop along with Xorg because no one cared about it for years and if you mentioned it on forums, diehard Linux extremists would laugh at you for being a stupid eyecandy user who loves to move around windows. In my opinion Linus' and Luke's challenge does the right thing, mentioning honest UX issues which unfortunately only get tackled now by developers because LTT has a reputation and is somewhat influential. Not being able to use hardware that otherwise works just fine on Windows and macOS rightfully is a nogo and whether Linux enthusiasts like it or not is a very valid reason to stay with alternative operating systems. At this point, it's of course the fault of the company behind a product not to properly support that specific operating system (here, it's Linux) but at the same rate, the Linux user base is just as much of a bunch of ignorant idiots as those companies because they refuse to understand why many users just can not switch to Linux that easily. Not everyone is interested in tinkering with computers, for most people it's just a tool to get things done.
The normie buys a pre-build PC or Laptop with an pre-set system. And this is independent from the operating system, because the Dell, Lenovo, System76, Tuxedocomputer, etc. works flawless with Linux pre-installed. Everything is done for you. If you really want to compare, then build a PC from scratch, install Windows 11 or Windows 10 on that device and I guarantee you that without hunting for the hardware manufacturer drivers, your PC will not work properly. Luckily there are many drivers available from the hardware manufacturer, that are designed to work on Windows 10, but without installing them, the hardware will not work or will not work properly.
@@AllanSavolainen I do believe that is a feature of little known Linux distribution known as Fedora. RPM to be exact. I don't know much about it myself, but this is what I've heard.
@@Cyanwasserstoff I know this feeling. I have worked on the hardware. And trust me - this is not the perspective needed to address the issue. A close equivalent would be to ask two "type opposed" suspension enthusiasts to rebuild the entire drive train from scratch and then argue that the disagreement they had was invalid because neither of them were mechanics. "Normie" users are equally handicapped when assessing the hardware and software in their rigs. What Linus and Luke are doing is not entirely "Normie" Linux is *sometimes* *WAY* more user friendly than windows. Sometimes it's way not. Linux is actually the "good guy" operating system. The fight is raging on against the evil and the corrupt. There's still much work to be done. And we need to pull our heads out of our arses to do it.
@@Cyanwasserstoff I mean getting all drivers on a Windows machine is super easy not only will Window's update get a majority of them on its own but there are plenty of perfectly fine working Free Driver update tools that get the rest you need on there own at the press of a button. The difference is that for Windows you usually get all the drivers you need unlike Linux were manufactures love to not include all needed drivers (which can also be seen in how CD's that come with most new computer parts have at least basic Window's drivers to work the system at all on them but hardly ever any for Linux)
Umm, I thought this challenge ended like 2wks or so ago... surprised its still being discussed. Canary-discord is also needed if you run something like powercord addon. AMD needs better improved hardware encoding under Linux, maybe even some x265 at some point. VA-API works but I think the quality is quite allot worse then NEVC from what I've been told (using 6800xt here).
Why would you think it's ended? Unless you're a floatplane subber and you've seen all of them ( in which linus basically hinted that it would be a minimum of 5 episodes..possibly more but worst case 4 parts in a wan show many weeks ago)_, no.it hasn't. They haven't even uploaded part 3 to youtube yet.
@@motoryzen I thought it ended at episode 2. But I may have skipped ahead with his mini episodes where he said it was over and basically returned to windows with open arms.... lol Not surprised; his friends/kids wanted to play EAC titles which are extremely poorly supported under Linux atm. BattlEye however is seeing some revival in proton thankfully.
@@motoryzen On the Wan Show, he said they're considering a part 6 or a second challenge at a later date when Valve revealed Steam OS was becoming it's own distro.
People are afraid of admitting they don't know how programs work and brute force their way through. For major tools like file managers, guthub, etc you will likely interact with more than once... just take the time and learn through others wisdom.
About the GoXLR issues- this is part of a bigger issue Linux often has, which is it's frustratingly incompatible with existing software and hardware that a person might own. Word documents, for instance, often get mangled upon import to libreoffice, and Linus is discovering that GoXLR doesn't play nicely. That's a big deterrent for a lot of people, as their prior software and hardware was expensive, both in terms of money and developing mastery with it. We can't just "tut tut" them as though they made a bad choice that they now need to repent for by buying new gear.
Proprietary hardware requires drivers made by the manufacturer but unfortunately most of the time, these companies don't create drivers for Linux. This is the cause of the issue and very hard to overcome the to the need to reverse engineer support. On the other thing, Libre Office might not work with those documents but ONLY OFFICE will. 😎👍
True but i suppose command line could be argued is not for beginners. I personally don't think Manjaro should be used by any beginners to Linux. Sure it is great for some users but in my opinion, beginners and Manjaro are not a good mix.
I'm just baffled that Mint and manjaro was used looking back on it. The whole challenge was poorly ran imo. Mint just seems to be out of date always for me when I used it ages ago. Manjaro tho loves to bork itself if you dont update every couple of days. But with goxlr type things thats something i love about the community bc usually its a better tool than companies like nvidia put out for us. 😅
I agree both options aren’t great for what they wanted to do. Most of the kinds of challenges have massive blunders in them. The biggest one was then having a Linux enthusiast on their team and not asking them for advice. They have a valid reason to not ask them but still
@michael_tunnell yea the fact they wouldn't ask Emily for advice is weird. They should've and it's bizarre. I wish they'd revisit it with her help.....
The problem Linus was having is that it was an HTML file except that had the .Sh extension and there was no way for him to recognize that he had an HTML file without opening it. In Windows it would have downloaded as .HTML and not .Sh with HTML coding inside
The problem is he didn't know how GitHub works and somehow that became the fault of Linux. He even said how he was annoyed that it did not prompt him for a script running application, but that is only because he didn't have a script. He blamed Linux for being difficult because he didn't know what to do. How is that any different on windows when a game wont work until you edit an ini file or have to run a batch file first. You have to be aware how it is done either way
A similar situation can occur in windows if you don't have it set to show file extensions. You can have a file named 'blah.html' but if extensions aren't shown it may actually be 'blah.html.txt' So my interpretation isn't that Linux showed the wrong extension, it's that Linux didn't show the extension as part of the file name at all. If the file showed up as 'install.sh.html' he might have at least realized he was downloading the wrong thing. I assume there is a setting that can be changed for this behavior like there is in Windows.
@@Dawn_Breaker I'm a wintoddler so I'm just inferring how such things can occur based on what I know (in windows). Interestingly when I replicated his steps using ungoogled-chromium on windows it actually swapped the 'install.sh' to 'install.html' When I used the other 2 browsers I have on this machine (edge and pale moon) it leaves it as 'install.sh' , but indicates that the file type is an html document in the save window. So install.sh.html would not have happened and would not have given it away and 2/3 of my browsers would have given him the same looking file as he got in linux.
NVIDIA's windows control panel looks about 20 years old. GeForce experience looks new, but honestly the control panel in Linux for NVIDIA is much prettier in terms of UX.
When people say that "Linux" sucks because OBS crashes or "Linux" sucks because you can't drag a file to your desktop.. these things have NOTHING to do with Linux. Linux is just the kernel (the core program). It is the same thing as blaming "Windows" if your Steam client crashed. That wouldn't make any more sense. Stop blaming Linux for things that have nothing to do with it.
You are right from a technical standpoint and yet terribly wrong from a empathetic user standpoint. Because what the community tries to push for years is LINUX as a desktop system. However, if I who has no idea of cars would be interested in buying one just to get cornered by a bunch of freaks who blame me for not knowing the difference of a 4WD compared to a FWD and I use to treat both the same on streets, of course I'd think, wtf?
@@MegaManNeo nobody was blaming me for anything when I started using Linux. I just needed a computer, got one with Linux and started learning how to use it. I wasn't even aware that there were other systems out there (like windows or mac). So how does your analogy apply?
Luke's segment shows why they're complaining. If Linux users mock windows users for having to "turn it off and on" to get things working, he has every right to be frustrated or mock Linux when he encounters a problem that is fixed by "turning it off and on".
You have the same issues with hardware when going from Windows->Mac->Windows. That has nothing really to do with the operating system, and is really a waste of time arguing over those issues. Hardware issues are a cheap shot to me. Just mention to check your hardware compatibility and warn that you might have to use something different, and that is all you need to do.
It's interesting to see the Linux community (not this video, but others) turn on Linus for saying bad things about Linux, some (including in this comments section) even saying that Linus is doing a hit piece on Linux.
Talking of scripts I don't know how many times I want to run a something in a script on windows and find scripts that just do not work. Powershell is aweful and maybe 1/2 the examples I find work. Side note python ticks me off copying segments of code as it wants space delimited segments.
About using the terminal, i can imagine that Linus did what I did when I started with Linux, google how to do x, and many if not all guides/tutorials online say to use the terminal and sudo everything, on top of guilt tripping anyone who doesn't want to touch the terminal lol
I completely agree with you
Agreed. Same experience here.
He did say he was overthinking it
I had the exact same situation when I was learning Linux way back in the day. Every single guide was just “paste this into terminal.” Effective, but none of it screamed “ready for daily driving.”
The issue with the file extension being .sh but it not being an sh file is something that would trip up Windows users. Same function on Windows would give a .html. Makes sense tbh.
Yeah same issue if you were downloading a PowerShell script from GH on Windows.
One nitpicks with Linux I have from a user perspective is, that when some applications crash, they do so silently. E.g. some of the problems described in the video happen to me after a driver or kernel update. Now Pamac says that a restart is recommended, but that's relatively new. Anyways, if I try to use a kernel module after the update that hasn't been loaded before, problems arise.
That these problems happen is not the issue!
But, the applications can crash because they rely on a module that hasn't been loaded and won't load until the reboot is done. E.g. opening an application that uses 3D graphics. Some won't start, some crash, some just display a black screen. If I forgot I updated earlier, it's confusing as hell.
When applications crash, it happens silent. like, I click on the icon, wait and nothing happens. No message, nothing.
Opening the application from comman often prints out an error message that gives a hint what went wrong.
But on GUI? Nothing. I wish there was a message "Application X ended unexpected, click Details for more!" with the same log as I'd see from the console in the details. That would help sooooo much with usability.
Again, this is a nitpick. By now I know that reboots are often needed (or at least log off/in again), but the quiet failures are not nice.
17:38 yep. I'm part of these people. I tried this challenge after the first video came out. I've been using Linux on a daily basis for ~9 months now. Had previous experiences with tons of VMs and some dual boots.
AMD GPU, Intel CPU, no proprietary hardware, had a flawless experience and I'm planning on continuing using it :)
That is great to hear! Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience! Also welcome to the TuxDigital Community. If you like podcasts you might want to check out Destination Linux and This Week in Linux which are podcasts that I host at tuxdigital.com 😎👍
I like your take on this the best. You come across like a patient teacher aware of the confusion and critical of the mistakes but in a constructive manner rather than a negative one.
Always a pleasure to watch your vids :)
One of the better reaction videos. You get how they approached this and understand that they are not out to five the community a hard time. Using there videos as a training tool would be a good idea. Sometime the developers forget that new users the the OS will not have the knowledge they think as basic. I see this in a lot of manuals and tutorials. People forget that their system is optimally reconfigured as they have done similar task before and skip the "basic" steps. The user should know that, right?
Canary in the coal mine. If the canaries die, the air is toxic and you need to get out. That’s what a canary build is.
Oh! That makes sense and is also a bit messed up
4:49 "Why is Linux using the terminal? You could use the gui. Let's just go to the website and follow their commands, boom, done" [commands on obs website are for the terminal and require sudo]
While I get your overall point, c'mon lol.
The "New" Nvec that they are talking about is the one that came out with "Turing" based GPUS AKA 2000 and 1600 series GPUS and newer. The old 1000 series and older Nvec might show up just fine in OBS and similar software BUT its the "new" one in RTX cards that might not. Don't know if it's a problem or not honestly Haven't messed with Linux and OBS on an RTX machine. Also Yes AMD USE to be be a HUGE NOPE on Linux back in the Day while NVIDIA was the GOTO GPU thanks to that. Now AMD is a BIG NOPE on Windows if you plan on utilizing OpenGL software such as Emulators while Nvidia is the Goto for that. So yeah
There is a difference at least on windows, but might as well Nvidia should work on VA-API
NVENC New has nothing to do with the new cards btw. It basically means zero copy aka no roundtrip through system RAM. You could also say NVENC Ffmpeg (no zero copy) and NVENC New (nvEncodeAPI)
The new NVENC implementation is (for now) windows exclusive.
I think there is a WIP to have it on Linux perhaps even a PR but don't quote me on that I don't quite remember.
Oh and RTX cards still work with the "old" Ffmpeg based NVENC and older cards with the new nvEncodeAPI based one.
@@FeuerfaustGolDAcethe nee nvenc only runs on newer cards. So it literally does have to do with newer cards
@@go-away-5555 You are perhaps talking about the differences in the architecture of the nvenc encoders / chips itself.
For the option in OBS though this is not of relevance.
5:34 LT has addressed this as packaging nightmare you probably have seen the video.... "Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks"
I agree that packaging has been a nightmare for years. That is why I am a proponent for Flatpaks because they address a lot of the problem
@Michael Tunnell - TuxDigital and flatpaks introduce new problems such as package bloat and desktop-app theme and config communication issues! OH and the requirement that all developers add yet another packaging system to their build cycles. (or the flatpak ends up being the inferior outdated version, yes this is my experience)
@@PRiMETECHAU package bloat is one of the most crazy arguments linux is basicly the only "mainstream" os that still does shared objects(in one form or another) for anything but most core SOs (think glibc and such). same with still not having any kind of write protection for system files (hell even windows has at least something ), immutable file system would be the best option And just like with packages there are some attempts that are popular with some people (like fedora silverblue) ironicly or maybe not so much ironic venn diagram of supporters of immutable rootfs's in linux and universal packaging formats(flatpac, snap(im more in favour of snap), appimage) is basicly a circle with little that doesnt overlap
@@bigpod There's several flatpaks that install their own GPU driver causing what should be a tens of MB install bloat to over a GB. It's a problem.
36:16 they actually said this. That they already know windows issues and that's why seems like windows just works but that's definitely not the case. They are gonna be doing some sort of challenge with win11 apparently
I guess I can be proud of the fact that I've had a lot less issues switching to linux than a guy that apparently has been working in the tech industry for the last 30 years.
28:10 it's named Canary because of the "Canary in a coal mine" metaphor, which is based on the real practice of keeping a small bird in a coal mine and checking it occasionally. If the Canary dies you know there wss a carbon monoxide or other toxic gas issue and to evacuate all humans. Chrome and Discord are not the only software with Canary releases. The term in software was popularized by Martin Fowler.
I've seen a few "reactions" to this video now, and I agree with the other comments that yours has been the most constructive in my opinion.
You've nicely explained how these misconceptions or issues can happen, and have also acknowledged and elaborated on both "sides".
Big thumbs up from me :)
Thank you very much for the kind words. I'm glad the video came across as I intended it to.
My goal for my reaction videos is not to beatup on the subjects but rather use their experiences as a jumping off point to share advice or explain nuances that are often overlooked so I'm very happy to know that is how it is being interpreted. 😎👍
@@michael_tunnell I think it was quite clear that was you goal, and I really value that.
While others have also brought up good points, they were often a bit one-sided and quick with their reactions, e.g. "just use supported hardware".
Your balanced take on this video has been the first one which pretty much fully satisfied my expectations for a reaction like this.
I'm looking forward to your further coverage and other content :)
18:44 exactly i have kde plasma and when i want to open (in lxqt DE) dolphin the file manager it asks me if i want to open it (opens idk some information's or what) or execute it(basically launch Dolphin) i am not savy linux user so if i made any error sorry
I'm new to Linux because of Linus's challenge. Thanks for giving extra context behind his issues. It's helping me learn Linux that much quicker
Awesome, I'm glad you found it helpful 😎👍
Linux does a very similar thing with file extensions OR magic numbers in the file header (it can be configured to use either or both). You can configure the program that acts on the file type by default using mime types. I understand Linus' frustration about this but Linux is not Windows and doesn't need to be. It's not more or less confusing it's simply different and something you have to get used to anytime you use something new. I wish I came into this with a more open mind and was more willing to actually learn.
Awesome! I'll be waiting for part 3 when their part3 comes out! Thank you!
I switched this year and had a similar experience at first - I've been a lifelong Windows gamer with all of the expected troubleshooting experience that comes with. I thought that experience would be helpful but it actually winds up being more of a handicap that requires you to unlearn much of it. After several months though, I'm a huge fan. :)
19:04 Scripts aren't executable by default. If you download a tar, the executable permissions are retained after extraction, but copying/downloading a script will not make it executable.
zorin os can execute script by default if im remember correctly
Yes... and Linus is a Windows guy, so what were your initial reactions when you learned about that circumstance when starting with Linux?
And no, don't pull up the RTFM card because that is cheating in the context of my question.
Point is, people who just switched don't know any better and do not expect it to be a thing.
@@MegaManNeo Wow. You really did post everywhere.
Many many years ago. First learning how to do the script thing was quirky and confusing to start. It reminded me of the batch file wizardry that I'd once heard about. It must have been a challenge to get one's head around. And I'm sure I'd destroyed many a desktop-environment/operating-system in my early days.
The situations aren't ideal and computing in general could be developed with more UX in mind.--- as for the "linus fumbles through download" situation goes - my respect for him has changed. I can no longer feel assured of his software knowledge. Or at least internet knowledge.
Linux ability aside, his on screen behaviour showed a skill level thats on par with Grandma. An ineptitude that I'd never thought could come from someone as Tech savvy as someone like him.
Was he exhausted? Had he never touched a HTML file before? Was the turbulent web of the late 90s not interesting enough for young Linus?
Everything else has been Linux related. That .sh problem broke me. Most of his mistakes are noob internet user stuff. It's just a surprise to me that Linus doesn't know how to "internet" or "computer" sometimes.
@@MatthewWilliamsX Just shows that despite of my _hate_ for the Linux community I actually want to enjoy the system and hope for serious improvements.
Therefore I too take Linus' attempt on it very serious as he pulled the newbie card and tries to go through the Linux experience as a complete newcomer to computers or very casual user.
If it was different he would used another distro - probably also Ubuntu based - for certain and asked Anthony or Wendell for help.
But what he tried to accomplish is to show Linux users and developers what it actually feels like for inexperienced people to switch from something they probably grew up with to another product that gets suddenly recommended every once in a while and with that in a wide variety of flavors.
@@MegaManNeo I understand your point but in this day and age, shouldn't Windows users be concerned about downloading ANY kind of executable from an unknown source? In this case, github was the source but clearly Linux didn't know how to use it so for the sake of argument, it was pretty much "unknown".
I think this is the best reaction is saw for this video until now. One of the core problems that i see in general with trying linux is the "unsupported hardware problem". The linuxexperience can be extremely different depending on the hardware in use. On (offically) compatible hardware linux is much easier to setup than even windows and gives you a great out of the box experience. If you have problematic hardware on the other side the experience will shift to a more or less unpleasant event depending on your general pc skills. In some cases your hardware won't work at all.
Another problem is the expectation that everything has to just work on linux like it would do on windows. It is kind of strange because no MAC user would expect his system to work or behave like a windows machine and be compareable in hardware or software compatibility.
Switching to linux requires learning new things and adjusting the software and hardware you use to the OS and not the other way around. This is just a fact in my opinon as it is with any other "different" operating system.
Great reaction. Greetings form germany.
Changing the extension is ONE way of Computer viruses to enter MS Windows computers.
Linux LOOKS into the file if you want to know a what it is. Despite what the file name is.
And if the file is marked as program, it will look what type of program it is and start it properly. Random downloaded files should not be marked as a program. The should be downloaded as ordinary files. IF you know what you do, you can check and then mark it as a program. Again that is when Linus think that it should work as MS Windows. Linux is not MS Windows, and MS Windows is not Linux. As it is not OSX.
Linus's choice of distro was the biggest cause of his problems. I like both Linux and Windows, but it does depend on what I'm doing. I edit videos on occasion and haven't had much success in getting an editor for Linux that I enjoyed using.
Regarding the apt-get obs-studio, as a noob that switched to Ubuntu for a while (during the Windows Vista days until Unity kinda broke my Ubuntu experience and I went back to Windows 7), I totally get why he'd go into the terminal and do that.
The cool thing that struck me about Linux when I started with Ubuntu was that a lot of things are actually easier in the terminal and apt-get was one of those things. When you know the exact name of what you want to install it sometimes easier to do it with apt-get rather than scrolling through the software center.
I acknowledge it's weird but at the same time it isn't.
TL;DR: when people have some notions of Ubuntu it's not that weird that you will do a few things like some apt-get in the terminal
I think the reason Linus decided to go with the terminal to install OBS was because if you go on their website and press on the linux button on the homepage it gives you instructions on how to install in depending on your distro. The instructions are decent but aren't as clear cut as one would like. Going on the website for a piece of software is pretty standard routine for a windows user, which is probably why that was his first instinct to go on there. This is just speculation tough so yeah
I don't believe that happened because its very clear as to what command to use when you go to that page. He later goes to that page in the video and then sees it is not apt. This suggests he simply assumed every distro is apt
I love Pamac, sometimes even for dependecies for themes. I started with ubuntu and therefore learned the apt commands but when I moved to manjaro pamac was all I ever used. I don't have to whip out the terminal.
We need to work on getting away from lumping every distribution into a single "Linux" bucket. Manjaro is different from Mint is different from Slackware is different ...
we need to get away from having million distros
Amen...diversity is ONE main key of why the Linux world is awesome....CHOICE....freedom of choice.
No, I think you guys are so proud and overconfident of your Linux knowledge after 3-5 years of use that you used to forget how the vast majority of user orientated computer systems work.
Including marketing.
We need to stop overselling Linux.
That basically can't happen. The reason is that developers all have different philosophies for what they're providing to users. That's why forks get created and new projects get started from scratch.
Fedora's GUI package installer recently changed so that when you open it the first time, it prompts you to add 3rd party repos/snaps/flatpacks
I think that's a good way to do it
I really like your reactions, you're very kind to us Linux noobs and just a pleasant person to listen to and you also have the most reasonable takes. From all the people reacting to Linus' challenge you're my favorite one, that's why I subscribed after the first video and I've been watching all your stuff ever since. Really glad I found your channel!
Agreed. Same boat.
If nothing else - the LTT Linux challenge has introduced me to a whole new slew of Linux personalities that wouldn't have been on my radar otherwise. Mostly thanks to the reaction video format - and the satisfaction of hearing another persons opinion in a subject that can leave you feeling isolated.
Thank you both very much for the kind words. I'm glad the video came across as I intended it to.
My goal for my reaction videos is not to beatup on the people in the videos but rather use their experiences as a jumping off point to share advice or explain nuances that are often overlooked so I'm very happy to know that is how it is being interpreted. 😎
Thank you very much for subscribing and I hope I can continue to keep the favorite spot. 🐧👍
I liked this reaction video looking forward to part 3.
It was funny realizing Linus was contradicting himself multiple times in this video.
I find Linus very annoying and hard to follow. He was one of my first channels to learn the ins and outs of gaming. But I felt disappointed when I found out that his channel is more about his ego than what is to help. I decided to stop watching him. In this challenge, he purposely acted like a clown to gain publicity at the cost of these great teaching channels. He is laughing all the way to the bank.
Yeah, there's always a learning curve when to go to something you're not familiar with!!!
You see, early on you say you say "Should be simple" because you know it already, and even if you do, it often isn't that simple because things don't work as they should .. often times.
My feedback in turn to you is to say you are to used to it, so it's normal, but, it's exactly these niggling issues that can be a pain for new comers and you don't realise it because you've been using it for years.
Anything including streaming, audio devices is always, and I mean ALWAYS a gamble on Linux. That's the status, realistically speaking.
Later on you do backtrack a bit :)
I think he didnt know about pamac and thats why he was trying to use the terminal
That is possible for sure. I think he assumed he had to for some reason. Pamac is on pinned apps section so I think he just skipped it over going to the terminal.
@@michael_tunnell always thought pamac was a terrible name, compared to pop shop for example
I think pamac is alright but yea Pop Shop is DOPE
@@cathalogrady2331 pamac doesn't show as "pamac" in the UI but as "add/remove software"
@@zamundaaa776 yeah makes it even more confusing no?
if we accept that linux is not friendly for newbie
maybe we can improve desktop experience
Linus was looking for problems, Luke's experience was pretty good
> maybe we can improve desktop experience
That would require the community (or sorry, communitIES because you are special snowflakes) to accept that their constant fighting and aim for knowing the terminal as well as nonsense talk about what distro is the best is actually not productive at all and the real progress for Linux only occurs in server space.
@@MegaManNeo or then doing what Gnome does and remove every setting that newbie doesn't need
@@AllanSavolainen As a Plasma user, I'd honestly like the idea of simplifying the menus, potentially hide those advanced features behind switches one has to toggle too like it's a thing in KODI for instance or simply put Android when you change any system settings.
@@TuxPeng I mean Luke also had more experience with Linux before the challenge than Linus did. He also took a more new comer friendly distro after Linus attempt to use one of those ended quite catastrophic.
10:30 i haven't used nvidia in a long time, but that GUI looks like the same one from my 650ti days
I'm gonna say it til I die. There needs to be a GUI way to do EVERYTHING you can do in the terminal.
For everything. Seriously.
I agree that the linux userspace needs a huge gui renaissance in order to be usable for more people.
However, ... as a developer i can explain why a lot of linux applications don't have guis or have really bad guis.
TL;DR: gui apps are hard to make and good UX design takes more than proper programming experience.
FULL EXPLANATION
First of guis are WAY harder to program than u might think. A lot of linux applications i use everyday are maintained by small teams or a single person; they can't be expected to also provide a very time costing gui version of their hobby project.
Second of making actually GOOD guis takes more than just programming, it takes proper UX development. This is why a lot of intermediate/advanced linux users prefer to just use the terminal, because the gui options just kind of suck.
@@comfysage I totally sympathize, I am actually a software dev myself and I know I'm not properly equipped for UI/UX development conversations.
I'm not saying it's easy, or that the avg Linux dev would know how, but regardless it 1000% has to take place. This is a reality. We need more UX trained devs in the Linux space.
30:30 I commented this on the LTT video too, but the Slack implementation is HORRIBLE. Even for Electron. A buggy, resource hog, mess. Each version that gets shat out to update with their useless "enhancements" that nobody asked for consistently breaks some other integration. Truly a massive dumpster fire.
No can move from Windows to Linux without frustrations. Its all brand new and it takes time to acclimate. Where is that discussion? It takes TIME!
Linux is fun, fun to learn and fun to try new software. I was gaming with Steam in Wine long before Proton, and showing my family and friends what it could do. Fallout 3 worked fabulous that way. To me the frustrations are natural, and part of the journey.. I can tolerate and work through them much easier..
24:31 this is a huge bragging point in Linux communities. SUSE even has that whole song "Don't Reboot - Just Patch" about how you can update in place.
Yes updating a process without restarting it and updating and OS without restarting it are very different things, but try explaining that to your grandma. Or Linus/Luke.
Uptime Funk is the best music parody SUSE has ever made in my opinion
== Micheal....among you, Wendell from Level1Techs, Anthony from LMG, and Chris Titus Tech,...I'D LOVE to see and hear the four of you on a colab video. cheers man!
Amazing reaction learnt a bit more about linux today
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it
A friend of mine who worships Linux sent me a link to this. I don’t know why people try so hard to get people to switch over to Linux when they are already content with windows. All of my software runs on windows and I know how to navigate windows settings so why should I change? I should throw away an operating system that I’m used to and paid for for something that’s free and strange to me. If and when Windows becomes a subscription only product I may consider a gradual transition to Linux but until then I’m happy where I’m at.
29:00 - Linus' Problem with the volumes is, as far as i know, a problem that originates from the maintainer of manjaro-pulseaudio and is configured in pulseaudio. By default the volumes work similarly tro the windows mixer, where all levels are "connected" and raising the applicationlevel also raises the "device" level. You can deactivate it by setting "flat-volumes" to "no" and restore the "good" (in my opinion) master volume levels per device.
Buuuuuut that is nowhere to be found anywhere in the control panels configurations but instead hidden inside an configuration file that you have to know.
Edit: Ooooh and one quick note: They call this thing btw "a feature" where i find it irritating.
And it could push the volume to 100% because the notification thingy wants to get something out and is not shutted…
I think the 2nd biggest stake against linux is the lack of support from propietary hardware that demands proprietary software.
I remember thinking it was stupid that i couldnt just use my DSLR as a webcam unless i had some random back end software from canon and i think it's dumb now.
Personally i dont think it's all too hard to adapt for, it's a matter of time and resources and to be frank going the extra mile increases the bottom line with sales for those ON linux who want to buy your hardware but cant because it isnt supported. Viewed another way - you control the market on Linux because other developers arent supporting it.
They dont need to create a perfect software - just good enough to support the most popular disros likely Debian and then Ubuntu, make it open source and the community can pull the rest together for their specific distros.
I've tried Linux a few times over the years, but I've never managed more than a month before returning to Windows. The main point of friction has been simply that certain hardware I want to use either didn't work or was crippled. That's not the fault of Linux, it's the lack of hardware manufacturer support. The problem is the userbase is so small that it doesn't make economic sense for the manufacturer to provide support. Then that in turn limits the size of the userbase. Although I'm a Windows user I've never been happy with the corporate nonsense that comes from Microsoft in the name of profit. I want an OS where I feel like I own my own computer. I hope Linux gains traction, maybe things like the steam deck will facilitate that. I live in hope.
When was the last time you tried Linux? I’m just curious, this isn’t intended to start an argument to be clear
20:51 for a single file like he was trying to download it's better to right click save the raw file format button
21:12 it is a github thing, but a lot of Linux usage relies on github nowadays.
30:36 Luke making the correct choice, lol
I wonder whether the screen capture thing is related to wayland. I have the issue that I cannot share screens in MS Teams when using wayland, but on Xorg it's no problem. If I'd guess this is related due to security implications, but really there should be something like a system-wide permission dialog "Do you want to allow application X to record the screen or parts thereof"
20:50 Download as raw is also used my all GIT platforms & paste sites
When using linux-unfriendly hardware and linux-unfriendly software don't expect to have a "user-friendly" experience setting it up. It can be done but needs some effort. Sad but true.
Why is it sad but true? Because all of us at some point first started on our linux journey with hardware/software that was already optimized for windows or macos. Those who stayed saw the superiority of the linux os and henceforth proceeded voting with our wallets. We simply ended up boycotting hardware/software that was linux unfriendly. So our experiences eventually ended up being plug and play and far superior to any windows/macos machine.
@blacknester , no can do. You will have to go through what i went through when existing hardware/software was linux incompatible and had no money to replace it. I used the only resource humans have in abundance, our brains, and made it work. Can't spend neither money, nor willing to put in the effort then I will be completely honest with you, linux ain't ready for you and you have to go back to the end of the waiting line. Eventually we will pick you up for the ride when/if linux becomes baby-proof.
.sh file can be a nightmare for those who are accustomed to double-click and install in windows.
Speaking of hardware support for example, i use a creative sound card. If i used integrated pile of discarded metal my experience would be less broken but i have better quality much better sounding device.
Historically, creative labs devices, being very popular audio brand are . . .unsupported in linux or whatever support there is its broken to dust. On my particular model linux did not detect any mic input, i had to buy sperate generic-hid-compliant-usb microphone to use comms.
Second thing is listening experience, i buy, subscribe and listen to higher quality music so an option to change basic things like bit
depth and frequency from the default lowest ever possible setting is kinda required.
Such a setting panel is available under windows for both my soundcards even with generic windows audio driver, and such option panel existed in windows since windows 95.. . . yet linux STILL after 22 years doesnt have it. Neither under pulse audio or pulsewire, no quality, or eq options what so ever, just a volume slider.
Hey, I have AMD hardware - a Renoir iGPU in my Ryzen 5 4500U cannot be woken up from sleep. It is not supported. And it persist in the newest kernels. Just a side note. EDIT - I've read of some ACPI patches that might help with that, but an updated kernel/firmware should fix it, yet it does not. BUT - Thank you for spendind time on dissecting the video and commenting from your (experienced Linux user) point of view. I think both videos (from Linus and yourself) serve a purpose for the community, and Windows guys that take into consideration switching to Linux should be aware of both points of view. It is important to educate people - and also acknowledging the fact not everything works in Linux the way it works in Windows (even the same software) - telling otherwise is a lie, essentially. Some Linux promoting channel focus only on ways Linux is awesome - and yes, it is awesome, but it should be clearly stated - not for every use case (depending on your hardware, for instance) and not for every user. And your channel underlines that fact, which is great!
🎉Remember: **Syntax is your wand**, indentation your incantation. And when the sun peeks over the horizon, casting shadows upon your keyboard, you'll know-you've danced with caffeine's muse.
May your code compile swiftly, your loops be infinite (but not too infinite), and your dreams be caffeinated! ☕🌙✨
I disagree about the terminal being an average user issue, anytime you google something the site insists that you use the terminal. And most distros don't make it clear that they have an app store, it would be nice during the initial setup the walk you through or just mention the app store. Plus most of their app store search kind of suck
I agree that distros need to be better about guiding the users on first install but what do you disagree with on the terminal aspect?
@@michael_tunnell I apologize after re-reading my comment it is apparent my thoughts didn't come out clear. I was disagreeing with the statement that Linus using the terminal instead of the "App store" or desktop package manager is not an average user problem. It could be I misunderstood your statement but from what i understood you were trying to say the average user would just use the desktop package manager instead of the terminal. I was refuting trying to state that most distros do not make it apparent that they have a desktop package manager/App store. and the immediate instinct of most people if they don't know how or where to install something they go to Google and type in "How to install OBS on Linux". and most walk throughs online usually assume you are using a Debian or Ubuntu based system and walk you through the process via the terminal since that is one of the few standard features in Linux. and if you are using any distro that is not using Debian or Ubuntu as a base it can cause new users to get confused since package managers are a foreign concept to Windows users and Mac users. Macs you either use the default apps or get it from the App store and if its not there you get it from the software developers website and go through a install wizard. its pretty much the same with windows but with more reliance on the websites.
23:28 I would still call this a Linux issue, even tho it is a PulseAudio issue, because PulseAudio is a Linux backend. I've never heard of anyone running PulseAudio on macOS or Windows.
My point was Fedora does not have this issue as pipewire handles it instead. Is it Linux? Yes but its not all Linux distros. I guess I should have worded it as "not a problem for all of Linux"
i do believe it can run but no one does but you can at
Playing devils advocate though.. if you look up directions on how to install pretty much anything.. you're almost never going to encounter someone saying open the software store.. It's usually starting off with "open up a terminal window" . Yeah, it could be because bash or terminal is the common element.. but you have to admit, a lot of things can be done in the gui and most walkthroughs start in the terminal..
There are several Linux apps (with different levels of hackiness) that can control an Elgato Keylight. I've successfully used a nifty little Gnome menu bar extension.
ini changes are big plus, not a minus for PC gaming. So many games have limited graphics options (none on consoles). Having to tinker to turn off motion blur is much betetr than having to play with it. But if you use games as intended, then using steam for example is as simple as a console.
That ini comparison to the tinkering to game on Linux doesn't make much sense. It's an option (as are mods) but it's rarely necessary. Gaming (on a broadly working setup) is almost always pressing buy, download and then play. I remember pc gaming times where that was NOT the case. For Linux you have to tinker to get things, even "just" normal games working. And if you use it you are likely fine with tnkering that/enjoy it.
My point is that true tinkering in Linux is about the same these days as it is for Windows. Sure there are exceptions where a game won't play but most of the time it is buy, download and play these days thanks to Valve and Proton. I think people should not be complaining about games not working on Linux because 80% of games aren't made for Linux so the fact that thousands still work should be astonishing to take games made for a different platform and make them work on another. I consider that impressive. Besides my point about Windows is that some games require tinkering just to work at all and yet practically every game is made for Windows, that is rather sad.
18:55
Just tested and atleast ubuntu doesn't run a script by double clicking it.
(and whether that can be configured is besides the point)
Great video! Great at every point!
Thank you very much 😎👍
yay ( a AUR helper) is in the blackarch repository. Which can be added on top of most any arch based disto. Simple steps on blackarch home page
In my opinion, no beginners to Linux should ever use an Arch based distro. Especially because the AUR, that is simply asking for problems
@@michael_tunnell cool I got a reply. Lol, this is how I found your channel. I agree with you and I topically give people interested in Linux a mint live USB... Or Kali if the just need the windows feel, as Kali has $kailundercover. "I don't think you need sudo permissions" but it basically looks identical to a windows system. Plus I like the wow factor when I do give them a Kali USB, they start exploring and see all the normal software but when they see the pen-testing software the like glow.. and as with the right DE it's user friendly.. I usually explain the open source ethos, and how you can look at, change, and fork anything license as open source.. that you now have unlimited power limited only by what you know. It really motivated them to learn. But ya if it's a random person I only have a few seconds to suggest something I'd suggest Linux mint or Ubuntu. Lol I use Arch but the way lol, (Artix because systemd is not runnit). Anyways I am liking your content 🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧
I try to read and reply as much as possible. I don't always get to reply but I try to do it as much as I can. :D
I think Linux Mint is a solid choice for a first distro in many cases. However, I would recommend not giving anyone Kali for similar reasons to Arch but Kali is also problematic in its own way because that distro is not designed to be used as a daily driver distro. It is designed to break into systems not keep people out of it. This is also something Kali themselves say that they recommend not using it for a day to day OS and only for its intended purpose. Beginners should stay away from this as much as possible, with the only exception for people who genuinely want to learn the technology of what Kali does.
I like the unlimited power part you mentioned, that is one of the best things about the ecosystem and the philosophy behind it. This was one of the reasons I switched myself. :D
I am glad you enjoy my content, thank you for commenting. I hope you have an awesome day!
GBM Buffer Manager... I'll go look that up but is that why I had to use their proprietary (crappy) screen placement utility when using multiple monitors? I ditched them because of that crap.
05:04 I think he did:
sudo apt install obs-studio yes sudo apt install obs-studio
That caused what he's complaining
It's still pretty weird though. '-y' is a flag that comes after the command you are trying to confirm (the same would be the case if 'yes' was also a valid argument or flag). This is the same way it works on MacOS and I can't imagine it's that much different on Windows.
i thought linus was super dumb for downloading the webpage instead of the file, but actually if you do the 'save link as...' thing it will download as '.sh' or '.cpp' or w/e not like 'example.sh.html' or anything like that, so it does seem like you get the right thing.
Like Button Smashed
I think you completely missed the point about third-party vendors not supporting Linux. You want to shrug it off as "Yeah, those vendors should support Linux" and leave it at that. But for the consumer, that's largely irrelevant. Apple had to work, and continues to work, really hard to ensure certain vendors support their devices. Microsoft at one time had to do the same when it wasn't the dominant player it is today. If Linux is to become mainstream, for there ever to be a "Year of the Linux Desktop" then at least one if not more Distros need to find a way to persuade, pressure, and/or bribe vendors to support Linux. If that never happens, then you have to accept that Linux will never be a mainstream consumer desktop OS alongside Windows or Mac. And in that case, you should stop PROMOTING it as a viable alternative to such.
I still can't get a lot of gaming hardware to be configured properly in Mac though, and that is considered a viable alternative. Even outside of linux this keeps happening. I would still consider linux a viable alternative, at least until Mac gets full compatibility with all my 'windows only' configuration options for devices.
What we need is moooooore traffic to Linus!
He had som fair critisism. And he gets crazy! 'm not blaming him.
i switched from windows 7 to popos to kubuntu in last 4 weeks. i formatted my windows ssd yesterday to use it as a steam library formated as ext4! it wasnt hard. now i dont miss windows. yesterday before deleting my windows ssd, i went for a last hoera in windows double check i copied everything i need etc etc! only 2 things i miss is folder.jpg not being picked up by dolphin, and redout enhanced edition game not working. all of my other games work flawlesly and better(more fps) on linux(steam and heroic)! linus is just a dunce
The comments about the packages is hard to follow for me: what are snaps, flatpacs and AURs?
coming to this now as i've just switched to linux, and i ran into a similar issue to linus when trying to run an installer and it instead opened the text editor instead of running the file. i had to right click and then tell it to run as execeutable, which i felt should have been the first option when i downloaded the program installer direct from the website.
If the installer is a text file or a script then it’s likely not properly made for Linux or it’s some esoteric script for something specific. In this case, it shouldn’t be executed by default because that could be dangerous for people to just randomly install scripts from a website. Proper packages wouldn’t work like that, they would be in deb, rpm, Flatpak, or another kind of packaged format with a built in installer mechanism such as through the App Store in your distribution.
linus downloading the github page sums up the video
New NVENC is not supported on the Linux Nvidia drivers for the newer cards. Old NVENC on older cards is supported.
13:41 generally not a hardware driver though. These aren't typical windows programs. And I think it is fair to the comparison for Linux vs Windows. Even if the manufacturers make it difficult to port, it's a pro for windows and a con for Linux.
14:58 that's still a con against Linux. Any hardware you can find in bestbuy or on Amazon will work on Windows. Not guaranteed with Linux. It is TC Helicon / et al's fault, but like you said, for the Linux user it's an issue regardless of whose fault it is.
31:53 this too. It is Canon's fault, but it's another legitimate reason for some users not to use Linux. It's not like people making the Linux switch are coming into it with zero technology they want to use alongside it and are willing to buy every peripheral afterwards. Outside of mouse/keyboard, many people already own some sort of hardware that doesn't run with Linux. Mouse/keyboard might even have RGB control issues, or other non-HID feature issues like 1000hz polling rate on a gaming mouse or the pi switch button.
But michael kde plasma is a desktop environment not a distro
My concern with the move to pipewire is the lack of network support. Like I can hardly understand Jack let alone get it to run properly over a network 😭
If Linus would just do a normal pc setup he would have far less issues with linux installs. Dont add your extra hardware until the os its self is working.
Regarding github: if you want a specific file and not the entire repo you can click on the file name then click the "RAW" tab on the right to get the text version which can be saved correnctly.
I will say, I made the exact same mistake with Github early on. Hovering over a file called "config.ini" in a Github project tree showed me a URL pointing to "config.ini", leading me to think it was pointing to the actual .ini file, not an html named after the .ini file.
I dont remember what I said here but I think I was reasonably understanding on this because not knowing how to use GitHub is going to be a common issue. GitHub used to make it easier with a download button in the sidebar but they chose to hide it to make it much harder because "reasons" so I totally understand why people would make that assumption.
10:20, to be fair, the windows control panel looks just as bad, I'd say much worse. It looks like it's straight out of windows 95 with some makeup on.
You don't rename a Linux file to make it executable; you change permissions. Different.
Things working then not working isn't that inconsistent on Windows, especially for mainstream applications like OBS.
Windows has stuff working and stop working for no reason all the time. Windows is a trash platform, the only reason it is popular in my opinion is because it has access to applications people want to use but other than that basically everyone hates windows itself lol
@@michael_tunnell Things break like that on Windows all the time. I agree. But, at least in my experience, a lot of work is concentrated on making mainstream stuff consistent on Windows. It's not so much Microsoft's effort as it is the individual developers, which is why it ends up being more consistent.
GeForce 2 MX 400, i had to Make file command to install Nvidia drivers, on a EMachine 190 2 ghhz, 2GB ram, 60 Gig Hard drive Mechanical .
really enjoyed your reaction plz continue ...peace
For the love of Linux, troubleshooting is just as brutal and from a consumer standpoint not user friendly at all.
The guys behind pop!_OS improved the apt situation where you were easily capable of removing your desktop along with Xorg because no one cared about it for years and if you mentioned it on forums, diehard Linux extremists would laugh at you for being a stupid eyecandy user who loves to move around windows.
In my opinion Linus' and Luke's challenge does the right thing, mentioning honest UX issues which unfortunately only get tackled now by developers because LTT has a reputation and is somewhat influential.
Not being able to use hardware that otherwise works just fine on Windows and macOS rightfully is a nogo and whether Linux enthusiasts like it or not is a very valid reason to stay with alternative operating systems.
At this point, it's of course the fault of the company behind a product not to properly support that specific operating system (here, it's Linux) but at the same rate, the Linux user base is just as much of a bunch of ignorant idiots as those companies because they refuse to understand why many users just can not switch to Linux that easily.
Not everyone is interested in tinkering with computers, for most people it's just a tool to get things done.
The normie buys a pre-build PC or Laptop with an pre-set system. And this is independent from the operating system, because the Dell, Lenovo, System76, Tuxedocomputer, etc. works flawless with Linux pre-installed. Everything is done for you.
If you really want to compare, then build a PC from scratch, install Windows 11 or Windows 10 on that device and I guarantee you that without hunting for the hardware manufacturer drivers, your PC will not work properly. Luckily there are many drivers available from the hardware manufacturer, that are designed to work on Windows 10, but without installing them, the hardware will not work or will not work properly.
Another feature for apt would be undo, after apt-get you should be able to say apt-oops which restores the previous state
@@AllanSavolainen I do believe that is a feature of little known Linux distribution known as Fedora. RPM to be exact.
I don't know much about it myself, but this is what I've heard.
@@Cyanwasserstoff I know this feeling. I have worked on the hardware. And trust me - this is not the perspective needed to address the issue.
A close equivalent would be to ask two "type opposed" suspension enthusiasts to rebuild the entire drive train from scratch and then argue that the disagreement they had was invalid because neither of them were mechanics. "Normie" users are equally handicapped when assessing the hardware and software in their rigs.
What Linus and Luke are doing is not entirely "Normie"
Linux is *sometimes* *WAY* more user friendly than windows.
Sometimes it's way not.
Linux is actually the "good guy" operating system. The fight is raging on against the evil and the corrupt. There's still much work to be done. And we need to pull our heads out of our arses to do it.
@@Cyanwasserstoff I mean getting all drivers on a Windows machine is super easy not only will Window's update get a majority of them on its own but there are plenty of perfectly fine working Free Driver update tools that get the rest you need on there own at the press of a button.
The difference is that for Windows you usually get all the drivers you need unlike Linux were manufactures love to not include all needed drivers (which can also be seen in how CD's that come with most new computer parts have at least basic Window's drivers to work the system at all on them but hardly ever any for Linux)
Umm, I thought this challenge ended like 2wks or so ago... surprised its still being discussed.
Canary-discord is also needed if you run something like powercord addon.
AMD needs better improved hardware encoding under Linux, maybe even some x265 at some point. VA-API works but I think the quality is quite allot worse then NEVC from what I've been told (using 6800xt here).
Why would you think it's ended? Unless you're a floatplane subber and you've seen all of them ( in which linus basically hinted that it would be a minimum of 5 episodes..possibly more but worst case 4 parts in a wan show many weeks ago)_, no.it hasn't. They haven't even uploaded part 3 to youtube yet.
@@motoryzen I thought it ended at episode 2. But I may have skipped ahead with his mini episodes where he said it was over and basically returned to windows with open arms.... lol
Not surprised; his friends/kids wanted to play EAC titles which are extremely poorly supported under Linux atm. BattlEye however is seeing some revival in proton thankfully.
@@motoryzen On the Wan Show, he said they're considering a part 6 or a second challenge at a later date when Valve revealed Steam OS was becoming it's own distro.
People are afraid of admitting they don't know how programs work and brute force their way through. For major tools like file managers, guthub, etc you will likely interact with more than once... just take the time and learn through others wisdom.
Part 3 was less interesting imo, but I'm still interested what your take will be
Me too 😃
About the GoXLR issues- this is part of a bigger issue Linux often has, which is it's frustratingly incompatible with existing software and hardware that a person might own. Word documents, for instance, often get mangled upon import to libreoffice, and Linus is discovering that GoXLR doesn't play nicely. That's a big deterrent for a lot of people, as their prior software and hardware was expensive, both in terms of money and developing mastery with it. We can't just "tut tut" them as though they made a bad choice that they now need to repent for by buying new gear.
Proprietary hardware requires drivers made by the manufacturer but unfortunately most of the time, these companies don't create drivers for Linux. This is the cause of the issue and very hard to overcome the to the need to reverse engineer support. On the other thing, Libre Office might not work with those documents but ONLY OFFICE will. 😎👍
Manjaro includes Yay which searches the AUR by default.
True but i suppose command line could be argued is not for beginners. I personally don't think Manjaro should be used by any beginners to Linux. Sure it is great for some users but in my opinion, beginners and Manjaro are not a good mix.
@@michael_tunnell true but it still comes with it. My point was just that it comes with it.
8:58 old hardware should still work properly though
I'm just baffled that Mint and manjaro was used looking back on it. The whole challenge was poorly ran imo. Mint just seems to be out of date always for me when I used it ages ago. Manjaro tho loves to bork itself if you dont update every couple of days. But with goxlr type things thats something i love about the community bc usually its a better tool than companies like nvidia put out for us. 😅
I agree both options aren’t great for what they wanted to do. Most of the kinds of challenges have massive blunders in them. The biggest one was then having a Linux enthusiast on their team and not asking them for advice. They have a valid reason to not ask them but still
@michael_tunnell yea the fact they wouldn't ask Emily for advice is weird. They should've and it's bizarre. I wish they'd revisit it with her help.....
The problem Linus was having is that it was an HTML file except that had the .Sh extension and there was no way for him to recognize that he had an HTML file without opening it.
In Windows it would have downloaded as .HTML and not .Sh with HTML coding inside
The problem is he didn't know how GitHub works and somehow that became the fault of Linux. He even said how he was annoyed that it did not prompt him for a script running application, but that is only because he didn't have a script. He blamed Linux for being difficult because he didn't know what to do. How is that any different on windows when a game wont work until you edit an ini file or have to run a batch file first. You have to be aware how it is done either way
A similar situation can occur in windows if you don't have it set to show file extensions. You can have a file named 'blah.html' but if extensions aren't shown it may actually be 'blah.html.txt'
So my interpretation isn't that Linux showed the wrong extension, it's that Linux didn't show the extension as part of the file name at all. If the file showed up as 'install.sh.html' he might have at least realized he was downloading the wrong thing. I assume there is a setting that can be changed for this behavior like there is in Windows.
@@i-hate-handle-namesI'm pretty sure Linux has Show File Extensions on by default.
@@Dawn_Breaker I'm a wintoddler so I'm just inferring how such things can occur based on what I know (in windows).
Interestingly when I replicated his steps using ungoogled-chromium on windows it actually swapped the 'install.sh' to 'install.html'
When I used the other 2 browsers I have on this machine (edge and pale moon) it leaves it as 'install.sh' , but indicates that the file type is an html document in the save window.
So install.sh.html would not have happened and would not have given it away and 2/3 of my browsers would have given him the same looking file as he got in linux.
This was good,thxs it was fair.
NVIDIA's windows control panel looks about 20 years old. GeForce experience looks new, but honestly the control panel in Linux for NVIDIA is much prettier in terms of UX.
11:40 yes but nothing this severe and for days at a time.
5:15. What is he talking about? How does it try to install and fail?
11:05 As long as I'm on X11, it has always worked for me
When people say that "Linux" sucks because OBS crashes or "Linux" sucks because you can't drag a file to your desktop.. these things have NOTHING to do with Linux. Linux is just the kernel (the core program). It is the same thing as blaming "Windows" if your Steam client crashed. That wouldn't make any more sense. Stop blaming Linux for things that have nothing to do with it.
You are right from a technical standpoint and yet terribly wrong from a empathetic user standpoint.
Because what the community tries to push for years is LINUX as a desktop system.
However, if I who has no idea of cars would be interested in buying one just to get cornered by a bunch of freaks who blame me for not knowing the difference of a 4WD compared to a FWD and I use to treat both the same on streets, of course I'd think, wtf?
@@MegaManNeo nobody was blaming me for anything when I started using Linux. I just needed a computer, got one with Linux and started learning how to use it. I wasn't even aware that there were other systems out there (like windows or mac). So how does your analogy apply?
Luke's segment shows why they're complaining. If Linux users mock windows users for having to "turn it off and on" to get things working, he has every right to be frustrated or mock Linux when he encounters a problem that is fixed by "turning it off and on".
You have the same issues with hardware when going from Windows->Mac->Windows. That has nothing really to do with the operating system, and is really a waste of time arguing over those issues. Hardware issues are a cheap shot to me. Just mention to check your hardware compatibility and warn that you might have to use something different, and that is all you need to do.
It's interesting to see the Linux community (not this video, but others) turn on Linus for saying bad things about Linux, some (including in this comments section) even saying that Linus is doing a hit piece on Linux.
Talking of scripts I don't know how many times I want to run a something in a script on windows and find scripts that just do not work. Powershell is aweful and maybe 1/2 the examples I find work. Side note python ticks me off copying segments of code as it wants space delimited segments.