Thank you Peter for the videos you make. I love the way you point out the strengths and weaknesses of the products you use without all of the hyperbole. Keep up the good work.
It's rare these days to not feel of a pure add when a youtuber talk about a product or a company in general. Even with Benchdog products 😉 Thank you Peter 🤩
Even if they can't add a motorised fence into such a small package, I image they could embed the same mechanism digital calipers use, to at least give a readout of current fence position. DRO equivilent for a table saw fence rather than mill / lathe.
Some sort of sensor/detector which can give you 0.1mm read-out accuracy for measurements say 100mm and under would be fantastic. Still, always possible to make a test-cut and then use your digital calipers to get a read-out.
Very interesting saw. I completely agree, Festool would be doing all a favor if they could design a battery lookalike that is a main with a power supply instead of “battery”. They would do well to offer the accessory for other cordless tools that may require long periods of use as well.
Thank you Peter. I'm in retirement and my main past time is woodworking. I've been attracted to this saw since I first read about it. I buy most of my tools from Axminster and they are currently out of stock with this saw which speaks volumes about its demand. I'm on their waiting list to be notifiied when they have their stock replenished and I will certainly be buying one thanks to your reviews.
I'm glad your happy with this saw and it is handy to take out and work on another site . I do agree if it's to a fixture of the workshop ,got to be main's powered ,if you are using it on a regular basis you don't keep on swapping batteries or recharging half way through a project .Thank's for the video and letting us know how your getting on with the saw. Take care
Just watched a video regarding a battery powered DeWalt saw that was used in a workshop using one of their mains adaptors, the issue was it bun’t out 2 motors in quick succession and with that was advised by the dewalt service centre- not to use the mains adaptor as they were causing motor failures.!! Maybe that’s a thing in the electronics world..?? And maybe why festool don’t offer one…..and obviously they’ll sell more of their very reasonably price batteries..😂😂😂
Hi Peter, Purchased this saw after I watched your and Peter Parfitt’s presentations, delighted with it. IT’s precision personified. Keep inspiring us. Regards, Paul
I have just purchased the CSC SYS 50 and so far I am very impressed with the saw. It is a replacement for a larger Bosch GTS 10 machine which I found to be too noisy and very cumbersome to set up. I have already made 2 additions to the Festool unit, firstly a cross-cut sled with a repeat cut stop on a rail. The second thing is an addition to the rip fence that allows me to use my Jessem Clear Cut Stock Guides, which are slid in place on a T-slot that I have cut into the wooden face, this ensures that the work piece is held securely against the fence and also prevents kickback. The whole thing sits across the existing rip fence and is held in place using bolts slotted into the top t-slot.
That’s really helpful and reassuring Peter, thanks. It was obvious in your first video that you were a little underwhelmed initially and a bit on the…erm…fence. Great to see what two months’ use has done, obviously some well thought-through views here! Mafell have figured out a micro-adjustment feature on their new Erika fence and yes, it would be nice to have that here, but this is smaller and more affordable (!!), and looks perfect for my very small workplace too.
Nice thoughts. Regarding the thin kerf blade and the ts60, my next video will blow your mind when you see what I tested with it. 😊 The 16t ripping blade is LEGIT
I do a lot of restauration on-site, and repairing woodrot in windowframes and the like. For making small pieces of profile on site this saw is proving wonderful and I am delighted with it. Yes, it is a bit of money, but sure beats the small contractor saws I used to use in many ways. Compact and lighter, well protected in the systainer, quiet, precise, and I do not have to look for an outlet for a couple of cuts. The cuts are very smooth with hardly any saw marks so need little to no planing or sanding. I have ordered the addition for the sled from Benchdog Tools for crosscuts and I agree that the weakest point of the saw is the ripping fence, which is hard to set precisely or move at very small increments. But overall, while I hesitated to invest so much money, I am glad I did and am very pleased with the machine.
Thanks for being an early adopter and sharing your honest thoughts on it Peter. looks like a decent saw. I think I can hold out for revision 2 or 3. maybe.
There are some components I want on a table saw. A really frim and very accurate fence with a fine tune scale. 10,4 isn't 10,45 mm. I don't have large building jobs but making very precise cabinets. A small difference can be very annoying. So I know what you mean. I have a very solid old Robland machine but in perfect condition. With a professional build in router which is 40 years old. But it is hard to install any height and in any degrees of cutting and to be precise at the same time. So it is always in the same height and degree state of sawing. Because of that I have bought myself three other saws (no hand saws, because I already using six of them) to get things done properly. Eventually that's not the way but I still can't find another solution. This Festool seemed a in between solution but now I have seen your comments on it, I will never buy one. Hard lesson for Festool. Thanks Peter. 👍
Cheers Matthew! Were you on that Gary Banks day trip? i did one of those earlier in the year - after I’d placed my order but before my saw had arrived - and it was a great day, lots to look at. 👍👍
Every time I see you use this saw, it makes me want one for my small shop but I haven't got to the point where I can't achieve my goal effectively with my track saw setup. Even if it is some what Unefficient at times. Thank you for the video.
Wow. The no table saw guy got a “table saw” 😂. Ok, perhaps that’s a cheap shot. Curious how this saw is futuristic in some ways but no micro adjust on the fence. Something I dream of building is a universal micro adjust for a table saw fence. Festool is out of my league but I guess it’s only time before similar features will come up at a lower cost. Thanks for the material as always. Keep smiling.
Peter, regarding the batteries not discharging at the same rate: I have recently purchased the US version of this saw. After running into the same problem, I realized the saw firmware had to be updated. This was done through the Festool Work app and since then the problem seems to have gotten much better. If you haven't done that yet you might want to give it a go.
Im thinking of buying one of these but agree it would be a better option to have a power cord as a backup .. I also own a TSC 55K Tracksaw that uses the 5.2 B/ Tooth batterys that you can use with either 18v or 36v . I do agree on the battery draining point that you mentioned for this saw table . I find the main battery to get the tracksaw to operate runs out quicker even if I double up to make it a 36v saw . I did download the Festool App on my phone that allowed me to have updates on my B/ Tooth Batterys and did notice a signifigant difference on the power output .
Good to know your linking it. When I set up a shop in the small space of my basement I had an 8" beaver table saw. I ran it on a 7 1/4" circular saw blade and it worked in similar fashion. Lots of things I could do with only a slight limitation on size.
Glade to hear you like it. Sounds like the wait was worth it. Check with Festool, I remember hearing that they were going to offer a 1.8mm riving knife replacement for the older TS-55 saws. I'm 110v powered and don't need it, yet.
A couple observations. The cost and features aren't the thing holding me back. It's the lack of larger depth of cut you get from a 10" saw. As for the fiddly fence adjustment, Dewalt knob rack/pinion adjust is simply the best. I wouldn't knock the Festool too much for having a fiddly adjustment. Heck the top shelf Biesemeyer fences aren't much different when it comes down to it. Other than the fact there is a handle to move and lock down.
I'm tempted by one of these especially if I build a mobile work centre for it. The work centre would get me more capacity and I can mount other tool into the top. I'm going to wait and see if enough people complain about a lack of mains cable and that Festool responds. If they do, it's in the shopping cart.
Great review. I fully agree with you on the fence adjustment. It seems like this was an oversight by Festool. It definitely should have a micro adjustment given the fact that the height and angle adjustment are so precise. Other than that though the saw is great!
Festool needs to purchase the new start-up/QuickStart - Rip-it automated digital fence system. That with the features here and the SawStop safety will revolutionize table saws…..but I doubt they will put it together.
Will Festool or the aftermarket make a converter/ adaptor for their cordless station tools? Seeing as Festool deems that non-handheld tools don't need BOTH mains' unlimited power as well as battery's unlimited placement. Because THAT would be very welcome. Especially with the small dust extractors. I'm guessing it would be a DC power supply, the shape of a battery so that it snicks right in the battery socket. Bonus points for including the Festool twist cord. This way, all legacy tools and accessories are still useful and adding features to the existing new line isn't needed.
I’m told that the power draw is too great for a mains/battery adapter like we see on the sanders, so if anything comes along it’ll be along the lines of a power brick, I think. 👍
Hi Peter, I bought this saw after watching some of your reviews and search around online. It’s a great machine ! Only comes with two batteries which isn’t enough if your cut solid oak parquet all day. However, I’m pretty impressed with the power (compared to to my ts55) Recently, it got stuck in on a calibration mode! And I’ve had to send it back to festool under the warranty! It’s been the first issue I’ve had with any festool product. It’s got me thinking that this tool is too reliant on the electronics! The moment the software glitches you can’t do anything… hoping this is a one off issue with tool! But I don’t have much confidence this will be one of this tools that will have the same longevity with the complex electronics.. Im wondering if I would actually have been better off with the other festool saw for the reliability! Interested to see what the 6 months / 1 year on videos will be on this machine.
It's not the kind of site saw that's going to be left out in the rai, that's for sure, but given the intended use - installers in occupied homes - I think it'll be robust enough. 👍
I love the rack-and-pinion on my Dewalt mobile saw - mine is older and has the scale in inches and metric which I find very useful for “fiddly” work (love that term). Would seem simple to have that with a DRO. You wonder why they skimped on that. Perhaps it would make an “expensive” saw *too* expensive? I’m not spending that much for a saw where you have to “nudge” the fence, but would buy it if it cost a few hundred more with a better fence. A Dewalt *saw* with rack-and-pinion is less that $400 and you can get a DRO for $60 from Infinity Tools.
People getting hung up on the price is a bit ridiculous. It’s a sexy bit of kit and every individual can make whatever choice they want! As you said in one of your early videos ‘you pays ur money, you makes ur choice.’
Was at my local wood and tool pusher the other day and he confirmed we'll get the saw over here this fall. But yup....$$$. As good as folks talk up the MFT and all that you can do with that and a track saw (and with parallel guides - all the farkles) I find my skill set with a big tablesaw exceeds what I've been able to do with the tracksaw/MFT combo. There are things that a tablesaw just does exceedingly well. So for my use case it begs the question: Do I dump my inexpensive cabinet tablesaw for this smaller pricier unit (for a LOT of my work the bigger saw just gets in the way). Festool did leave the door open for an after market fence (which seems to be a time honored habit of tablesaw manufactures :^) ).
Mr. Millard, when you are cutting a half lap at 1:40 it seems like you might be using a flat top tooth blade. I'm considering this saw but eager to find out if this type of blade is available, or if the included blade will make smooth dado-style cuts. Any insight is appreciated!
You could always add your own vernier scale to the fence, although it's only really useful for relative changes unless you have a mechanism to calibrate it every time you change the blade.
The TS60 is an incredible tool. I highly recommend. The day they make a corded version of this, I'm ordering one. Until then... I guess I'm going to look at some proxxon tools?
I’m pretty new to woodworking and have my eye on this machine. I want to build tools to aid my plan to renovate my home. The plan is to fit solid wood flooring and cabinetry as well as potentially a new kitchen. If I get this saw, would there be a need for a Kapex? Or is the mitre functionality on this adequate? I’m thinking to get this and a TS60 to have me covered for most of my cutting needs. What do you think?
Yes, for the tasks you mention I don’t think the extra capacity of a kapex is of any benefit. Mitre setup on this saw works very well - provided you can live with the depth of cut. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I’m expecting mine to come tomorrow. I went with 4x of the new 8Ah batteries, which should make the absence of a power cord a little less of a nuisance. I have to say I’m excited! Took delivery of the TS 60 track saw, so I should be covered for most of my cutting needs for now.
DRO's are starting to show up on table saws, and there are retrofit kits offered by other saw makers. I think Festool missed the boat on that one, they should, perhaps offer a retrofit kit for a DRO, even if the adjustment is still manual, the DRO would be worth it.
Of all the Festool items I can't afford, I may want this one the most. I WISH it wasn't batteries...that sucks and in all honesty is likely a deal breaker. But other than that, I do love the product for a small at home shop.
Yep, and you’re far from the first person to say that in the comments; I’m sure the ‘battery-only so it works in all countries’ thing has benefits, but it’s absolutely costing them sales. 🤷♂️👍
Great video , can this saw cut bevels well ? I’m make boxes and can’t find a lot of footage showing bevel cuts . I assume the sliding table would be great for bevels .
Yes, absolutely. Take a look at my recent ‘loose tenon jig bevel hack’ video - th-cam.com/video/50g5L63-Yvg/w-d-xo.html - I cut a lot of bevels on the saw in that and they were fantastic. 👌👍
Well, it wouldn’t cut any better, but it would be a lot more attractive to a lot more people if they didn’t have to invest in another battery platform to use it! And thanks! 👍
That saw seems incredible. However, one thing worries me. Since the blade is angled toward the fence, do you think it would be dangerous to make thin angled cuts?
Table saws no. Sliding table saws yes. Hammer. Felder etc. These Felder products are expensive but there is no contest when it comes to speed. Efficency. Accuracy. Capability for any type of board or solid wood. Safety. And they pay for themselves quickly if you are working every day with them. Ripping work. Cross cut. Bevel. Mitre cuts. Dados. And many other joints.
I totally agree with you. So far i don't regret buying the CSC SYS50 for a second. One of the most accurate saws i know. To be sure i always measure the distance from the fence to the saw blade with a ruler. Knowing Festool they will come up with a good solution.
I don't really understand why they put the Bluetooth gubbins in the battery. Surely it's better in the tool? Admittedly not backwards compatible with their existing range but ... If you swap your saw battery into your drill driver temporarily it's not going to fire up the damn suction every time you drive a fastener
DO NOT LEAVE THE BATTERIES CONNECTED FOR EXTENDED PERIOD. I left them connected to my TSC for 6 weeks and one is now totally dead. Festool quoted £185 for repair. A new battery is £100 😂 Festool is a pleasure to use but by far the least reliable for me 😢
Interesting, thanks. I’ve had batteries attached to eg drills for way longer than that without any issue, but I’ll keep an eye in the ones I use with the saw. 👍
I wish I could trade my SawStop jobsite saw (the older one) for this. That JSS has a non-flat top that makes it impossible to achieve any kind of precision. So, Peter how flat is the top on this Festool? (Note: I am not seriously considering buying this because, yes, the battery only feature. But I have to give credit to them for being the only manufacturer to offer a small form factor precision woodworking table saw).
Thanks! The top seems pretty flat, but I haven’t put a straight edge on it for the same reason I’ll never test the squareness of an MFT using the 5-cut method; if it’s significantly ‘out’ in normal woodworking I’ll notice it, and if I don’t notice it, then it’s flat/square enough already. This may seem slapdash to some, but it’s a philosophy that’s prevented me from driving myself insane in the pursuit of absolute flatness or absolutely square. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop A very sensible approach. Of course that SS jobsite saw was not designed for fine woodworking but I am not sure I would trust it even for construction framing. Even so I can workaround its flaws with careful setup and by limiting my use of it to narrow pieces not doable with the track saw. It just makes woodworking not fun. But that Festool table saw actually looks like it is enjoyable to use. And now back to hurricane prep here in Los Angeles!
I have a question about this saw, can you use other brands 160mm, 1.8mm keft blades? or do you have to use the festool specific blade? (let's say it is re- calibrated correctly for the 160mm blade)
Blade on this is a 168mm, same as the TS55F, so I'd imagine a 165mm blade from another manufacturer would be a closer fit. And yes, you can re-calibrate the blade zero height. I guess the question I'd have is - why would you want to?
@@10MinuteWorkshop 168mm is specifically designed for the latest series of festool products. I guess I wanted an option to use cheaper blades for breaking down certain blade gumming materials like pine.
Great channel! Have you considered a digital caliper holder (3d printed) for a table saw fence to help dial in precision fence movement for fine adjustment? I am pretty sure this would be a great seller if it was mountable on any saw?
One battery draining faster than the other could be an advantage if you only have one charger and 3 batteries as the depleted back battery could be put on charge while you continue with the fresh plus the part used one and might be ready for when the front battery runs out.
@@10MinuteWorkshop could it be that the front battery powers just the main motor while the back one powers the motor and everything else? All that you have to do is take the cover off your shiny new saw and snip the wires one by one to see what stops working. What could go wrong? 😉
Hi Peter. Glad you are liking the saw. I bought the TKS 80 with saw stop a few years ago. I was never at any point dissatisfied with it, but as time has gone on and I have used it more, the love for this saw has just grown. Things that seemed odd in the beginning are making sense now. I do want to get rid of the "transportable features" and put it on a permanent base, and No! I still haven't triggered the saw stop on it, but I'm also pretty carefull. I'm also running the DeWalt DWE 7485 on the mobile stand for all the really messy stuff outside. I have ripped so much timber on this saw, and it just goes on and on and is surprisingly accurate. Dust collection - Not so much.
Bugger I was hoping for a car crash….. still going to wait for mains version 😁 If you are going for a new track saw surely you need both TS60 and 75 for lager cuts 😉
@@10MinuteWorkshop With the Festool workapp you get a more precise readout of the battery condition over a bluetooth connection. Chances are differences in battery condition could be a cause. Noticed it on my saw too but it was the front battery in my case. Could also be a matter of upgrading the battery firmware.
the slide on my saw on the right hand side is .5mm above the table and has o slope of .5mm which when using to cut accurate cuts leaves a angle on the timber the only way I can correct this is to have a .5mm shim the left edge of the sliding table
If they hybridize it like their cordless sanders , I’m there despite the price. Same for the multitool. Why are you gonna charge me that much & not allow me to plug it in? I own their cordless sander & paid more for it to be cordless but only if I had the option to use an outlet. As a saw for portable use, I’d want the 120V version bc I’m in the US but 240V doesn’t bother me. In my shop I have 24OV tools that are stationary.
Hey up pete.! Sounds like the perfect little saw for my shed- there’s just the small matter of the price.!!… Now that your commercial fitted furniture day’s are over and you have more time than you know what to do with.!😂.. I think it’s your civic duty to make quiet, accurate table saw’s available to the masses.. - with your acquired experience and innovative approach to design and build problems, I think you could probably take a metabo ste saw :- Metabo TKHS 315 C Table Saw 2000W 240V SKU: MPTTKHS315C Authorised Reseller 103152038 1 £319.08 inc VAT And re-engineer it into a home built- all singing all dancing cabinet saw with a smaller footprint, and then sell the plans for £2:00..??🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I honestly don't understand the issue people have with the price of Festool tools. They are made in Germany ,and therefore they're paying their staff a proper living/working wage in a western economy, not some cheap Chinese factory that pays a pittance to its employees. The two festal tools I have, sander and extractor, work flawlessly and have never given ma a days problem. They're backed up with a 3 year warranty and will probably outlast me 😅
I’ve worked in busy workshop environments for most of my career and use o early models of the ts55 and extractors daily. they do last. The only thing that goes on them is the plug it cords as they are weak and designed to break. also use old early extractors that still perform like new. like anything in life if it’s looked after it tends to last. what’s more impressive is the abuse tools get in professional workshops and the longevity of quality tools. I don’t think you can even know festo on quality.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Great, fantastic saw.Mine one(the very first just realised) was cutting out all the time.I had to refund it because replacement would not come for many months.Might buy it again when viable project comes along.Thanks
Building sites are going battery only for safety reasons. Tool companies are making tools to reflect this. Sales to this industry are the main driver for product development
@@stephenoconnor1459 that would be true if Metabo for instance hadn’t already developed a corded battery technology. Also, across the tool industry you have an option for corded vs cordless. It’s not even an option on this.
A little scroll wheel for the fence would be perfect. Could be inbuilt to the fence so it doesnt interfere with the systainer box thing but that would probably require some expensive moulding
Looks like the Festool honey has seduced you on this one - and you thought it was flawed initially ! It's like all things - you'll find a use for it anyway. A lovely precision bench saw - more of a site application with the battery, but very useful as an addition to a bigger table saw or a mft table. It needs a micro adjustable feed to the fence and maybe a drop on the price - can't see Festool dropping any prices soon - the fanboys can't get enough.
I still think it’s flawed, but most of the flaws I’m coming to terms with. But yeah, micro-adjust on the fence is an omission when everything else in the saw is so precise. 🤷♂️👍
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Thank you Peter for the videos you make. I love the way you point out the strengths and weaknesses of the products you use without all of the hyperbole. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
It's rare these days to not feel of a pure add when a youtuber talk about a product or a company in general. Even with Benchdog products 😉 Thank you Peter 🤩
Even if they can't add a motorised fence into such a small package, I image they could embed the same mechanism digital calipers use, to at least give a readout of current fence position. DRO equivilent for a table saw fence rather than mill / lathe.
Some sort of sensor/detector which can give you 0.1mm read-out accuracy for measurements say 100mm and under would be fantastic. Still, always possible to make a test-cut and then use your digital calipers to get a read-out.
Let’s hope the next version comes with a power cord and thanks Peter for the update
I think that is the only thing hodling me back from buying it. I do not have any interest in getting on FT cordless platform.
I think Festool might have made this table saw specifically for the Peter Millard shop!
I think they might! 😂
@@10MinuteWorkshop it's obvious 👍
😂
😂
Very interesting saw. I completely agree, Festool would be doing all a favor if they could design a battery lookalike that is a main with a power supply instead of “battery”. They would do well to offer the accessory for other cordless tools that may require long periods of use as well.
Similar to Hikoki’s multivolt mains adapter!
Thank you Peter. I'm in retirement and my main past time is woodworking. I've been attracted to this saw since I first read about it. I buy most of my tools from Axminster and they are currently out of stock with this saw which speaks volumes about its demand. I'm on their waiting list to be notifiied when they have their stock replenished and I will certainly be buying one thanks to your reviews.
Thanks Alan. It’s a lovely saw for anyone with smaller workpieces - or workspaces - in mind! 👍👌
jealous!! rack and pinion fence, sawstop tech, and mains power would be so good. but i guess that would have meant even more 💸💸💸
I'm glad your happy with this saw and it is handy to take out and work on another site . I do agree if it's to a fixture of the workshop ,got to be main's powered ,if you are using it on a regular basis you don't keep on swapping batteries or recharging half way through a project .Thank's for the video and letting us know how your getting on with the saw. Take care
Just watched a video regarding a battery powered DeWalt saw that was used in a workshop using one of their mains adaptors, the issue was it bun’t out 2 motors in quick succession and with that was advised by the dewalt service centre- not to use the mains adaptor as they were causing motor failures.!! Maybe that’s a thing in the electronics world..?? And maybe why festool don’t offer one…..and obviously they’ll sell more of their very reasonably price batteries..😂😂😂
Hi Peter,
Purchased this saw after I watched your and Peter Parfitt’s presentations, delighted with it. IT’s precision personified.
Keep inspiring us.
Regards,
Paul
Thanks Paul, that’s great to hear. 👍👍
We really appreciate you peter good practical advice as always.
Thank you! 👍
I have just purchased the CSC SYS 50 and so far I am very impressed with the saw. It is a replacement for a larger Bosch GTS 10 machine which I found to be too noisy and very cumbersome to set up. I have already made 2 additions to the Festool unit, firstly a cross-cut sled with a repeat cut stop on a rail. The second thing is an addition to the rip fence that allows me to use my Jessem Clear Cut Stock Guides, which are slid in place on a T-slot that I have cut into the wooden face, this ensures that the work piece is held securely against the fence and also prevents kickback. The whole thing sits across the existing rip fence and is held in place using bolts slotted into the top t-slot.
That’s really helpful and reassuring Peter, thanks. It was obvious in your first video that you were a little underwhelmed initially and a bit on the…erm…fence. Great to see what two months’ use has done, obviously some well thought-through views here! Mafell have figured out a micro-adjustment feature on their new Erika fence and yes, it would be nice to have that here, but this is smaller and more affordable (!!), and looks perfect for my very small workplace too.
Thanks! I was very happy with it but felt it only right to point out the - obvious - shortcomings in the first vid. 👍
Nice thoughts. Regarding the thin kerf blade and the ts60, my next video will blow your mind when you see what I tested with it. 😊
The 16t ripping blade is LEGIT
Thanks Drew. Yeah, I need to get a ripping blade - I have a 28t ‘universal’ blade in one of the TS55s and it’s a solid performer. 👍
I do a lot of restauration on-site, and repairing woodrot in windowframes and the like. For making small pieces of profile on site this saw is proving wonderful and I am delighted with it. Yes, it is a bit of money, but sure beats the small contractor saws I used to use in many ways. Compact and lighter, well protected in the systainer, quiet, precise, and I do not have to look for an outlet for a couple of cuts. The cuts are very smooth with hardly any saw marks so need little to no planing or sanding. I have ordered the addition for the sled from Benchdog Tools for crosscuts and I agree that the weakest point of the saw is the ripping fence, which is hard to set precisely or move at very small increments. But overall, while I hesitated to invest so much money, I am glad I did and am very pleased with the machine.
Me too - there’s a more recent video where I give my 12-month verdict. 👍
Thanks for being an early adopter and sharing your honest thoughts on it Peter. looks like a decent saw. I think I can hold out for revision 2 or 3. maybe.
the father i never had! always glad to see your videos.
There are some components I want on a table saw. A really frim and very accurate fence with a fine tune scale. 10,4 isn't 10,45 mm. I don't have large building jobs but making very precise cabinets. A small difference can be very annoying. So I know what you mean. I have a very solid old Robland machine but in perfect condition. With a professional build in router which is 40 years old. But it is hard to install any height and in any degrees of cutting and to be precise at the same time. So it is always in the same height and degree state of sawing. Because of that I have bought myself three other saws (no hand saws, because I already using six of them) to get things done properly. Eventually that's not the way but I still can't find another solution. This Festool seemed a in between solution but now I have seen your comments on it, I will never buy one. Hard lesson for Festool.
Thanks Peter. 👍
Thanks for the updates on this Festool saw bench. Really hoping too that a cabled capability will be added aswell as battery 🤞
I've been using this saw in Festool UK headquarter and i want it more than anything else 😌 great video Pete 👊
Cheers Matthew! Were you on that Gary Banks day trip? i did one of those earlier in the year - after I’d placed my order but before my saw had arrived - and it was a great day, lots to look at. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop it was on our last Rubio Ambassadors meet there
Looks like an absolutely incredible tool
Thanks a bunch for the updates, Peter! 😊
Pretty impressive tool indeed!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too! 👍
Thanks Peter, glad it's working out well for you, looking forward to the simple builds joinery !
Thanks Andy! 👍
Every time I see you use this saw, it makes me want one for my small shop but I haven't got to the point where I can't achieve my goal effectively with my track saw setup. Even if it is some what Unefficient at times. Thank you for the video.
TBH I was the same - but now I have it… 🤷♂️😆
Wow. The no table saw guy got a “table saw” 😂.
Ok, perhaps that’s a cheap shot.
Curious how this saw is futuristic in some ways but no micro adjust on the fence. Something I dream of building is a universal micro adjust for a table saw fence.
Festool is out of my league but I guess it’s only time before similar features will come up at a lower cost.
Thanks for the material as always.
Keep smiling.
Fully agree with having a power cord option!
Peter, regarding the batteries not discharging at the same rate: I have recently purchased the US version of this saw. After running into the same problem, I realized the saw firmware had to be updated. This was done through the Festool Work app and since then the problem seems to have gotten much better. If you haven't done that yet you might want to give it a go.
I’ll take a look, thanks Tim! 👍
Im thinking of buying one of these but agree it would be a better option to have a power cord as a backup .. I also own a TSC 55K Tracksaw that uses the 5.2 B/ Tooth batterys that you can use with either 18v or 36v . I do agree on the battery draining point that you mentioned for this saw table . I find the main battery to get the tracksaw to operate runs out quicker even if I double up to make it a 36v saw . I did download the Festool App on my phone that allowed me to have updates on my B/ Tooth Batterys and did notice a signifigant difference on the power output .
Good to know your linking it. When I set up a shop in the small space of my basement I had an 8" beaver table saw. I ran it on a 7 1/4" circular saw blade and it worked in similar fashion. Lots of things I could do with only a slight limitation on size.
It's linkable.
Glade to hear you like it. Sounds like the wait was worth it. Check with Festool, I remember hearing that they were going to offer a 1.8mm riving knife replacement for the older TS-55 saws. I'm 110v powered and don't need it, yet.
Rack and pinion for the adjustment would’ve been good for the fence
Yep. 👌
A couple observations. The cost and features aren't the thing holding me back. It's the lack of larger depth of cut you get from a 10" saw.
As for the fiddly fence adjustment, Dewalt knob rack/pinion adjust is simply the best. I wouldn't knock the Festool too much for having a fiddly adjustment. Heck the top shelf Biesemeyer fences aren't much different when it comes down to it. Other than the fact there is a handle to move and lock down.
I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it were 240v as I'm not on the battery platform. Hopefuly an adapter or MK2 may address this but not holding my breath!
You’re not the first person to say that so fingers crossed!
I'm tempted by one of these especially if I build a mobile work centre for it. The work centre would get me more capacity and I can mount other tool into the top.
I'm going to wait and see if enough people complain about a lack of mains cable and that Festool responds. If they do, it's in the shopping cart.
Great review. I fully agree with you on the fence adjustment. It seems like this was an oversight by Festool. It definitely should have a micro adjustment given the fact that the height and angle adjustment are so precise. Other than that though the saw is great!
Totally agree; I recently did a '12-months on' review and I've been surprised how much I've used it. Great saw. 👍
wish they done it 240, perfect for my workshop and i always have power there.
Yep. 100% agree.
Congratulations for your channel
How the saw performs with hard wood?
Festool needs to purchase the new start-up/QuickStart - Rip-it automated digital fence system. That with the features here and the SawStop safety will revolutionize table saws…..but I doubt they will put it together.
Will Festool or the aftermarket make a converter/ adaptor for their cordless station tools? Seeing as Festool deems that non-handheld tools don't need BOTH mains' unlimited power as well as battery's unlimited placement. Because THAT would be very welcome. Especially with the small dust extractors. I'm guessing it would be a DC power supply, the shape of a battery so that it snicks right in the battery socket. Bonus points for including the Festool twist cord. This way, all legacy tools and accessories are still useful and adding features to the existing new line isn't needed.
I’m told that the power draw is too great for a mains/battery adapter like we see on the sanders, so if anything comes along it’ll be along the lines of a power brick, I think. 👍
Hi Peter,
I bought this saw after watching some of your reviews and search around online. It’s a great machine ! Only comes with two batteries which isn’t enough if your cut solid oak parquet all day. However, I’m pretty impressed with the power (compared to to my ts55)
Recently, it got stuck in on a calibration mode! And I’ve had to send it back to festool under the warranty! It’s been the first issue I’ve had with any festool product.
It’s got me thinking that this tool is too reliant on the electronics! The moment the software glitches you can’t do anything… hoping this is a one off issue with tool! But I don’t have much confidence this will be one of this tools that will have the same longevity with the complex electronics.. Im wondering if I would actually have been better off with the other festool saw for the reliability! Interested to see what the 6 months / 1 year on videos will be on this machine.
Yes; I've had a couple of times when the saw has shut down and needed to restart! Not what I want in a phone, let alone a saw!
Excellent seems really good, looks quite delicate.
Impressive though.
Thanks Sam
It's not the kind of site saw that's going to be left out in the rai, that's for sure, but given the intended use - installers in occupied homes - I think it'll be robust enough. 👍
I love the rack-and-pinion on my Dewalt mobile saw - mine is older and has the scale in inches and metric which I find very useful for “fiddly” work (love that term). Would seem simple to have that with a DRO. You wonder why they skimped on that. Perhaps it would make an “expensive” saw *too* expensive? I’m not spending that much for a saw where you have to “nudge” the fence, but would buy it if it cost a few hundred more with a better fence. A Dewalt *saw* with rack-and-pinion is less that $400 and you can get a DRO for $60 from Infinity Tools.
People getting hung up on the price is a bit ridiculous. It’s a sexy bit of kit and every individual can make whatever choice they want! As you said in one of your early videos ‘you pays ur money, you makes ur choice.’
Thanks Peter forthis one, Festool indeed isn't cheap but it last for a long time. Keep it up and I agree a powercable adapter could be very usefull 👍😀
Thank you!
Was at my local wood and tool pusher the other day and he confirmed we'll get the saw over here this fall. But yup....$$$. As good as folks talk up the MFT and all that you can do with that and a track saw (and with parallel guides - all the farkles) I find my skill set with a big tablesaw exceeds what I've been able to do with the tracksaw/MFT combo. There are things that a tablesaw just does exceedingly well. So for my use case it begs the question: Do I dump my inexpensive cabinet tablesaw for this smaller pricier unit (for a LOT of my work the bigger saw just gets in the way).
Festool did leave the door open for an after market fence (which seems to be a time honored habit of tablesaw manufactures :^) ).
If you're in the US then saws have arrived this week; lots of 'influencer' types on instagram posting their stash of cardboard boxes! 😯
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yikes! Happening already! :O
Mr. Millard, when you are cutting a half lap at 1:40 it seems like you might be using a flat top tooth blade. I'm considering this saw but eager to find out if this type of blade is available, or if the included blade will make smooth dado-style cuts. Any insight is appreciated!
It’s the stock blade, nothing fancy - but like all Festool stock blades they’re great all-rounders. 👍
You could always add your own vernier scale to the fence, although it's only really useful for relative changes unless you have a mechanism to calibrate it every time you change the blade.
Yep, that's why you pay 2500 Euros - to relieve Festool of their manufacturer's duties.
The TS60 is an incredible tool. I highly recommend.
The day they make a corded version of this, I'm ordering one. Until then... I guess I'm going to look at some proxxon tools?
Different animal; Proxxon’s a model makers saw, tiny capacity, nowhere near robust enough for eg ripping down a length of plinth / toe-kick.
I’m pretty new to woodworking and have my eye on this machine. I want to build tools to aid my plan to renovate my home. The plan is to fit solid wood flooring and cabinetry as well as potentially a new kitchen.
If I get this saw, would there be a need for a Kapex? Or is the mitre functionality on this adequate?
I’m thinking to get this and a TS60 to have me covered for most of my cutting needs.
What do you think?
Yes, for the tasks you mention I don’t think the extra capacity of a kapex is of any benefit. Mitre setup on this saw works very well - provided you can live with the depth of cut. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I’m expecting mine to come tomorrow. I went with 4x of the new 8Ah batteries, which should make the absence of a power cord a little less of a nuisance.
I have to say I’m excited! Took delivery of the TS 60 track saw, so I should be covered for most of my cutting needs for now.
Another awesome video. Funny enough my cordless festool plunge saw drains one battery faster than the other.
Thanks. Not sure why that is, but good to know it’s not just this one! 👍
DRO's are starting to show up on table saws, and there are retrofit kits offered by other saw makers. I think Festool missed the boat on that one, they should, perhaps offer a retrofit kit for a DRO, even if the adjustment is still manual, the DRO would be worth it.
Hey Peter. Love your work 👍
Thank you! 🙌
Of all the Festool items I can't afford, I may want this one the most. I WISH it wasn't batteries...that sucks and in all honesty is likely a deal breaker. But other than that, I do love the product for a small at home shop.
Yep, and you’re far from the first person to say that in the comments; I’m sure the ‘battery-only so it works in all countries’ thing has benefits, but it’s absolutely costing them sales. 🤷♂️👍
Do you think a rack and pinion fence, like the Dewalt, would help ?
Great video , can this saw cut bevels well ? I’m make boxes and can’t find a lot of footage showing bevel cuts . I assume the sliding table would be great for bevels .
Yes, absolutely. Take a look at my recent ‘loose tenon jig bevel hack’ video - th-cam.com/video/50g5L63-Yvg/w-d-xo.html - I cut a lot of bevels on the saw in that and they were fantastic. 👌👍
Hi Peter, do you think it would be better with a mains cable?? Hope you're well thanks for posting, great video as always, cheers
Well, it wouldn’t cut any better, but it would be a lot more attractive to a lot more people if they didn’t have to invest in another battery platform to use it! And thanks! 👍
Pete, does the fence lock in place front and back? Hate where some are rather movable at one end.
No just at the front - but it's solid! 💪
That saw seems incredible. However, one thing worries me. Since the blade is angled toward the fence, do you think it would be dangerous to make thin angled cuts?
Yes, it's not ideal, but the blade also does a -11° bevel, which is useful. 👍
Table saws no. Sliding table saws yes. Hammer. Felder etc. These Felder products are expensive but there is no contest when it comes to speed. Efficency. Accuracy. Capability for any type of board or solid wood. Safety. And they pay for themselves quickly if you are working every day with them. Ripping work. Cross cut. Bevel. Mitre cuts. Dados. And many other joints.
Not exactly portable though, are they? 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop definitely not. They are big machines and for a workshop.
I totally agree with you. So far i don't regret buying the CSC SYS50 for a second. One of the most accurate saws i know. To be sure i always measure the distance from the fence to the saw blade with a ruler. Knowing Festool they will come up with a good solution.
Thanks! Yes, it’s a lovely saw. 👍
Just in time for this to come out in the USA. We already have long term reviews lol
Yep. 👍
One benefit to having to wait in usa lol
@@davidhouchin2353 but I want it now!
Hi Peter, how effective is the dust extraction facility onboard this saw?
It's very good; probably the best I've seen on anything that isn't a cabinet saw, and better than any portable / site saw I've used. 👍
I don't really understand why they put the Bluetooth gubbins in the battery. Surely it's better in the tool? Admittedly not backwards compatible with their existing range but ... If you swap your saw battery into your drill driver temporarily it's not going to fire up the damn suction every time you drive a fastener
Yes it is! That’s the whole point of having it in the battery - add the BT battery to anything and it auto-starts the vac. 👍
DO NOT LEAVE THE BATTERIES CONNECTED FOR EXTENDED PERIOD. I left them connected to my TSC for 6 weeks and one is now totally dead. Festool quoted £185 for repair. A new battery is £100 😂 Festool is a pleasure to use but by far the least reliable for me 😢
Interesting, thanks. I’ve had batteries attached to eg drills for way longer than that without any issue, but I’ll keep an eye in the ones I use with the saw. 👍
A knob on the fence for micro adjustments like the small DeWalts would be nice.
It would! 👍
Ya they did it on thier sawstop cts
I wish I could trade my SawStop jobsite saw (the older one) for this. That JSS has a non-flat top that makes it impossible to achieve any kind of precision. So, Peter how flat is the top on this Festool? (Note: I am not seriously considering buying this because, yes, the battery only feature. But I have to give credit to them for being the only manufacturer to offer a small form factor precision woodworking table saw).
Thanks! The top seems pretty flat, but I haven’t put a straight edge on it for the same reason I’ll never test the squareness of an MFT using the 5-cut method; if it’s significantly ‘out’ in normal woodworking I’ll notice it, and if I don’t notice it, then it’s flat/square enough already. This may seem slapdash to some, but it’s a philosophy that’s prevented me from driving myself insane in the pursuit of absolute flatness or absolutely square. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop A very sensible approach. Of course that SS jobsite saw was not designed for fine woodworking but I am not sure I would trust it even for construction framing. Even so I can workaround its flaws with careful setup and by limiting my use of it to narrow pieces not doable with the track saw. It just makes woodworking not fun. But that Festool table saw actually looks like it is enjoyable to use.
And now back to hurricane prep here in Los Angeles!
It is obviously working well for your needs. But I can not stop thinking it looks like a toy. It seems looks can be deceptive :-)
Great video as ever Peter. Do you think there would ever be a need for a zero clearance insert and would this be possible?
It’s something I’ll be looking at in due course, but it makes a very clean cut at the moment, so I’m not at all sure it would be necessary. 👍
I have a question about this saw, can you use other brands 160mm, 1.8mm keft blades?
or do you have to use the festool specific blade?
(let's say it is re- calibrated correctly for the 160mm blade)
Blade on this is a 168mm, same as the TS55F, so I'd imagine a 165mm blade from another manufacturer would be a closer fit. And yes, you can re-calibrate the blade zero height. I guess the question I'd have is - why would you want to?
@@10MinuteWorkshop 168mm is specifically designed for the latest series of festool products. I guess I wanted an option to use cheaper blades for breaking down certain blade gumming materials like pine.
I just wish it wasn't micro-sized 🤔 Maybe there's a 70 version coming, maybe even with mains power
It’s so tiny though. How would one use this to build a common dining table for instance? Still applicable?
It’s a trim saw - a very capable trim saw, but you wouldn’t use this to make a dining table any more than you’d use a panel saw to cut veneers. 👍
Great channel! Have you considered a digital caliper holder (3d printed) for a table saw fence to help dial in precision fence movement for fine adjustment?
I am pretty sure this would be a great seller if it was mountable on any saw?
Interesting idea! I’ll have a think, thanks! 👍
Thanks Peter. Would you say that it could be possible to get rid of my kapex 120 and swap it for the scs sys?
You won’t have the capacity that the Kapex has, so it depends on how you expect to use it, I think. It’s certainly accurate enough. 👍
Mine is on order it's a very quiet machine as well
It is. Really pleased with it. 👌👍
One battery draining faster than the other could be an advantage if you only have one charger and 3 batteries as the depleted back battery could be put on charge while you continue with the fresh plus the part used one and might be ready for when the front battery runs out.
Yes, just curious as to why, and worth mentioning; I’ve had comments from other users that their saw also does this so it’s not an isolated thing. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop could it be that the front battery powers just the main motor while the back one powers the motor and everything else?
All that you have to do is take the cover off your shiny new saw and snip the wires one by one to see what stops working. What could go wrong? 😉
Bench dogs make a Festool angle stop adapter plate for the sys50. A review would be good - none on TH-cam at the moment.
From about 7 months ago 👍 - Benchdogs CSC SYS Fence [**gifted without obligation**][video 546]
th-cam.com/video/QmQW4YbCT3I/w-d-xo.html
Hi Peter. Glad you are liking the saw. I bought the TKS 80 with saw stop a few years ago. I was never at any point dissatisfied with it, but as time has gone on and I have used it more, the love for this saw has just grown. Things that seemed odd in the beginning are making sense now. I do want to get rid of the "transportable features" and put it on a permanent base, and No! I still haven't triggered the saw stop on it, but I'm also pretty carefull. I'm also running the DeWalt DWE 7485 on the mobile stand for all the really messy stuff outside. I have ripped so much timber on this saw, and it just goes on and on and is surprisingly accurate. Dust collection - Not so much.
Thank you for this. How's the project on your house coming along?
Thanks! House project is coming along. Hit a few snags, there’ll be an interim video soon. 👍
Lets hope they come out with a battery/mains adaptor like they have for the sanders.
The motor draws too much power for those type of adapters, unfortunately.
Even with two in paralell?@@10MinuteWorkshop
Do you think a mains powered option would be better🤔😉😎
Not better, but they sell a lot more! 👍
Bugger I was hoping for a car crash….. still going to wait for mains version 😁
If you are going for a new track saw surely you need both TS60 and 75 for lager cuts 😉
It would have made a more popular video, probably! 😂 TS75 is a much bigger saw, and I’ve managed OK so far without one! 👍😬
@@10MinuteWorkshop 75 is a beast, not temped by a ‘look what I can cut’ video 😈
Nice to have you back here! What’s the ratio for the drainage between the 2 batteries? Great video as always!
Thanks! I’ve only flattened the batteries once, so don’t take it as a definitive statement, but it was 1/3 of a charge difference between them. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop With the Festool workapp you get a more precise readout of the battery condition over a bluetooth connection. Chances are differences in battery condition could be a cause. Noticed it on my saw too but it was the front battery in my case.
Could also be a matter of upgrading the battery firmware.
it absolutley ticks all the boxes for me except for the battery power. When and if it gets a mains adapter and comes to the US, I'll buy one.
It’s just landed in the US, but no word on a mains cord / adapter apart from ‘we’re working on it’…
Do you think they will bring out a corded one at some point nice video
Can't see it, but I'm told there is a mains adapter in the pipeline... 👍
Couldn’t you just use two battery to cord converters which are available for the battery operated sanding machines!? 🤔
No, they don't deliver enough oomph. Also, you can buy a lot of batteries for what those converters cost!
the slide on my saw on the right hand side is .5mm above the table and has o slope of .5mm which when using to cut accurate cuts leaves a angle on the timber the only way I can correct this is to have a .5mm shim the left edge of the sliding table
The way to correct this is to return it for a replacement as it isn’t fit for purpose. 🤷♂️
are all tables like this my salesman says it is designed this way a strait edge when moved from right to left catches on lip
@@MelGubb No absolutely not. Return it.
If they hybridize it like their cordless sanders , I’m there despite the price. Same for the multitool. Why are you gonna charge me that much & not allow me to plug it in? I own their cordless sander & paid more for it to be cordless but only if I had the option to use an outlet. As a saw for portable use, I’d want the 120V version bc I’m in the US but 240V doesn’t bother me. In my shop I have 24OV tools that are stationary.
Hey up pete.! Sounds like the perfect little saw for my shed- there’s just the small matter of the price.!!… Now that your commercial fitted furniture day’s are over and you have more time than you know what to do with.!😂.. I think it’s your civic duty to make quiet, accurate table saw’s available to the masses.. - with your acquired experience and innovative approach to design and build problems, I think you could probably take a metabo ste saw :-
Metabo TKHS 315 C Table Saw 2000W 240V
SKU: MPTTKHS315C
Authorised Reseller
103152038
1
£319.08 inc VAT
And re-engineer it into a home built- all singing all dancing cabinet saw with a smaller footprint, and then sell the plans for £2:00..??🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
😂 I'll get right onto that, just as son as I've finished this house remodel... 👍
I honestly don't understand the issue people have with the price of Festool tools. They are made in Germany ,and therefore they're paying their staff a proper living/working wage in a western economy, not some cheap Chinese factory that pays a pittance to its employees. The two festal tools I have, sander and extractor, work flawlessly and have never given ma a days problem. They're backed up with a 3 year warranty and will probably outlast me 😅
Still have my original Midi vac and TS55 saw from ~2005 and they’re still going strong. 💪🙌👍
I’ve worked in busy workshop environments for most of my career and use o early models of the ts55 and extractors daily. they do last. The only thing that goes on them is the plug it cords as they are weak and designed to break. also use old early extractors that still perform like new. like anything in life if it’s looked after it tends to last. what’s more impressive is the abuse tools get in professional workshops and the longevity of quality tools. I don’t think you can even know festo on quality.
why COULDNT they do the mains cable? :(
🤷♂️
Did he mention the lack of a mains cable?
Not sure the message got across. Thanks for mentioning it! 😂👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop 😆👍
Why only cordless version is available?
Easy harmonisation across different countries would be my guess, but you’d need to ask Festool. 👍
It's still not available in Australia.
Sorry to hear that.
It looks like it could use an outfeed table.
It's coming... 👍
Will you make your own outfeed table or have you heard a whisper from Festool?
Does it not cut out regularly for mo reason?
No, never had that. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop Great, fantastic saw.Mine one(the very first just realised) was cutting out all the time.I had to refund it because replacement would not come for many months.Might buy it again when viable project comes along.Thanks
If only you could get this with a cord. I just will not support these ripoff battery platforms
Joke isn’t it. So many people would buy this, and it would never leave their house.
Building sites are going battery only for safety reasons. Tool companies are making tools to reflect this. Sales to this industry are the main driver for product development
@@stephenoconnor1459 really? U.K. building sites are banning 110v?
I have a Festool sander with a battery that takes a cable to battery adapter. I wonder if they’ll do something similar for these batteries
@@stephenoconnor1459 that would be true if Metabo for instance hadn’t already developed a corded battery technology. Also, across the tool industry you have an option for corded vs cordless. It’s not even an option on this.
Thank you.
A little scroll wheel for the fence would be perfect. Could be inbuilt to the fence so it doesnt interfere with the systainer box thing but that would probably require some expensive moulding
Perfect oportunity for the Benchdogs people to make a killing with aan adjustable precision fence kit thingy!!!
Just wish it would work with a power cord, just like you, to have it in a small shop
Yep. 👍
Looks like the Festool honey has seduced you on this one - and you thought it was flawed initially !
It's like all things - you'll find a use for it anyway.
A lovely precision bench saw - more of a site application with the battery, but very useful as an addition to a bigger table saw or a mft table.
It needs a micro adjustable feed to the fence and maybe a drop on the price - can't see Festool dropping any prices soon - the fanboys can't get enough.
I still think it’s flawed, but most of the flaws I’m coming to terms with. But yeah, micro-adjust on the fence is an omission when everything else in the saw is so precise. 🤷♂️👍
DeWalt make a cordless to corded adapter I don't see why Festool cant do the same
Yep, 100% agree.