What pissed me off about this is that Clay never apologized for being an asshole to Justin. He spent the entire season putting Justin down and making him feel like shit even though Justin was trying to be better.
was it because we actually witnessed characters who make up their own versions of moral code, get away with murder, and then try to make it seem like it's okay in the end because "they deserve happiness"?
I noticed that last season,Tyler would often cross his arms across his chest when he was feeling nervous or threatened. In one of the hospital scenes,Tyler went back to that bit of body language. Very consistent.
Shanahan harding i noticed that too! i really wish that we could have seen more into tyler’s character and how he learnt to not hate monty by the end of the season
in my humble opinion his story line was more or less resolved. He got justice for his rape, he overcame his loneliness and has a good support line, he spoke up about his sexual assault, he's definitely more stable and happy. There wasn't much reason to keep dragging him into the narrative unless for silly melodrama. how this season handled his recovery and continued development was fine
@Ryanator Man you just need a reason to hate, isn't it? They had shown his mental condition becoming the worst of all possibilities. Couldn't you just stop taking everything to heart and enjoy the show?
@@varunnaik7441 I guess to some extent you could say his condtion affected his interactions with people, but he was very selfish and would lash out at people for seemingly no reason, like when he lashed out at ani for writing his college essay and turning it in for him. Perhaps she could have communicated this to him better to avoid stress, but when she informed him that he wouldn't get in trouble for his essay, he was still angry at her for helping him out. Maybe he's always been like that to some extent but he seemed like more of a prick this season.
If the school shooting drill was actually Tyler it would've had the whole season better with him being arrested and all the secrets being exposed instead of the stupid riots and everyone getting off easy
I totally agree. I wish the group got caught. I throughly enjoy season 4 but I think the show would of worked better if the group got caught. I mean they all regretted killing or keeping secrets. Some of them should of gotten caught.
joextreme why? i am not saying that i do not support that cause because Floyd did not deserve what happened to him. but why should they ban a show that has nothing to do with what is going on in current events?
Clay gets in a car crash with Zach, clay leaves zach on the car and he almost DIES; the next day Clay doesn't have one scratch and faces no consequences and zach just forgives him? wtf?
Alex had a brain injury, broken body, also almost died again in s4 and he felt utterly nihilistic and worthless ever since Hannah's death, then his utterly failed relationship with Jess (someone he deeply cared about) -he never felt happy or felt a moment's peace. He also tried to kill himself with a gun in s1 as we all know, was disabled and so on. But even despite that he regretted throwing Bryce into the river who raped and led to the death of the ppl closest to him and bryce was still going on about how he will ruin ppl close to him again. So I could also imagine why his character among all others could do what he did. As a result, given his sense of worthlessness and brain injury he tried to get rid of anything positive coming into the way of his life. So what happened with Charlie is a very big miracle and sth his character needed. He had suffered long and hard. Therefore Alex is a very complicated character and he faced various repercussions and trauma since s1. He even owned up to what he did and essentially surrendered. As jess said he deserved to be happy in the end. He didn't necessarily get away and lived on a bed of roses till now. Also Justin's horrible death finally helped him to come to terms with a lot of his misery and appreciate what he has while he's still alive.
This show went from a suicide and tapes making people feel guilty all the way to those same people trying to cover their asses for a murder. And throughout seasons 2, 3 and 4 we have fewer and fewer characters to genuinely like.
One the shows most likable characters spent the whole drunk/high and then outta nowhere attempted to rape a prostitute he brought to prom. 😳 like huh? what is this show
Exactly. And these band of "friends" , are so vindictive, suspects everybody, trust nobody, have this " be a hero" fetish. And Jessica was so irritating, and so manipulative , like she's judge and jury and anybody who opposes her are traitors
@@BrainPilot it took me over a year to move on from my dog dying 😅 when she seemed so happy at graduation that didn't seem right or realistic at all :/ her and Justin should have been graduating together
Agree. Jessica needed to learn how to be single. Going from Justin to Diego almost immediately was not right. I love her character, but her character made her co-dependent.
Are you surprised though? She’s easily the least likeable character in my opinion. All she does is boss people around, complain, refuses to take accountability for anything, the way she treated clay for Diego knowing good and well that clay is being bullied and tormented for covering up for her and Alex, getting mad at Justin for wanting space to get better and then throwing shade at him an hinting that he’s gonna relapse again to spite him, then sleeping around with one of his team mates, being mean asf to Annie, speaking and trying to rule over Montys sister etc. when she was with Alex she used her rape experience to not have sex with him but was literally cheating and sleeping around with Justin. Like she’s easily the most selfish, corny and self centered character on the show.
Clay was more unbearable than in other seasons... There was no likable character this season... Everyone was just awful. Tyler and Justin were almost the only salvageable characters
The only likeable characters imo were Charlie, Tyler, Mr. & Mrs. Jensen, and Clay's therapist. I agree that Justin was salvageable and I'll throw Tony in that category. Like they were both okay, but not completely bad like the others in their friend group (that I didn't already mention). Clay, Alex, Jessica, and Ani were all insufferable and should've gone to jail (as well as Charlie as much as I like his character). Zach was just kind of there being annoying for the majority of the season.
Idk if anyone is going to read this but: I really enjoyed the show as a whole but Season 4 was really bad (the acting was great though, especially Dylan Minnette). Many plots didn't make sense, didn't contribute to the story or weren't explained at the end. Like: Why would Clay and Ani not tell the others about Winston in the beginning? How did Tyler secretly helping the cops contribute to the story? Why the hell did no one face any consequences at all, e.g. Clay almost killed Zach (who was suddenly okay with it after a "get your shit together"), the footballers pulled "pranks" on Clay blackmailing, threatening him and leaving him in a hole for dead and everyone acted like it's nothing just because Clay is mentally ill and now can't be taken serious and doesn't have any rights anymore or what? Wtf? What pissed me off the most was the shooting drill. Though I enjoyed the episode, I hated how they handled it afterwards. It was barely discussed and did not have any consequences at all. This is some serious trauma for the students that the school caused and the school got away with it (don't make me start talking about the riot lol) - which is very poor for a show that's all about trauma. It was handled like it was wrong but not serious. If I was a parent, I would be all over the place (like Clays father was - for 10 seconds). The timing of some character developments were disproportionate (e.g. Alex struggled from Episode 1-9 because he thought he is a bad person and then in Ep10 he's suddenly more light and accepting of himself), and some characters weren't necessary at all (Charlie, Winston and Ani, though I loved Charlie). It would have been so much better to show more of Diego and Monty in flashbacks, Diegos grief and need for the truth was somehow understandable but I didn't get Winston at all because: all we knew was (if I remember correctly) he was beaten up by Monty and hooked up with him once. Then he talked about loving him. It was rushed, it was a bad choice of "the wild card". They should have either showed more of Winston and Monty (to understand him better and care more for him) or leave Winston out of it and just focus on Diego and Monty's friendship and/or maybe his sister (underrated character because she most likely witnessed how Monty was treated at home and could've contributed a lot to his character after his death and give him more depth). Loved Clays parents and would have loved to see a scene with them and Justin where they actually talk about him feeling guilty (costing them time, money etc). I think they really loved him and made a big effort of treating him equally and show how much they cared for him - their relationship deserved AT LEAST a talk with Justin at this death bed scene! The final episode felt like "we have 10 perfect ways of ending the series but we can't decide which one to choose so let's have them all". After Justin's funeral, watching the episode felt like every scene was gonna be "the last scene". It was still okay though. But why have Justin die out of nowhere? I loved Justin and his arc (he's the best in S4, probably had the greatest character development in the show and his death was the only emotional thing about S4 for me). I think it's mainly because they started with a funeral and wanted people to think there was another murder and making characters that already had their perfect arc look unnecessarily suspicious (like Tyler) - because there was no "new story" - this whole season was about dealing with consequences of past decisions and overcoming them (loved the idea) but it was trying so hard to be mysterious like S1-3 and therefore handled its own theme one-dimensionally (only focussing on mental illnesses as a consequence): There was almost no character (of those who framed Monty) who approached a different way of doing the morally right thing aside from suffering so much that the audience just forgives you out of sympathy. They missed opportunities here of showing different approaches to free yourself from guilt (like confess to relevant characters, face legal consequences etc.). This way, we could have seen "different types" of forgiveness and closure for many characters (like if someone told Ms. Walker the truth and how it might have helped her in her mourning process or for Alex' father not having to carry the burden of his son's secret which can ruin his career he worked hard for etc.). Also: having crazy produced robot-war-scenes as a pseudo-intellectual metaphor is always a nice try of distracting from lazy, not fully developed storytelling and plotholes. The show started brilliantly as a show about teenagers coping with serious issues and ended up as a show about fucked up teenagers who got away with murder because deep down they're good (although they addressed themselves the injustice of criminals who don't get punished [enough] - double standard). S4 had also great aspects (loved Justin, Clay, Tyler and Alex) but not enough to outweigh the bad ones. Btw: Sorry for the long comment and thanks for reading it if you made it so far! :-)
It's jus becoming a Trend hating this show now... even if they bring on good seasons ,., idk y ppl are still gonna hate them ! The best It first focused on hanah ' s issues n then on clay ' s anxiety n Hallucination issues ! Which were completely relatable to what happens these days ! And honestly speaking I have learnt a lot from this show.. N it was perfect addressing all these issues which must hv helped the audience ❤ I cried for ages when Justin died😭😭I sobbed when I saw justin twitching cuz i didnt want to see my boi like that i didnt want him to go through that shi man ...com on guys why u gotta take my boi justin he was my homie man. Fkn sad ending n the moment when Clay was reading Justin's essay and he found out he wrote about him and choked on readin"He's my....brother" i just burst onto tears and my heart exploded! Almost everything was PERFECT in this Season , I was a bit disappointed with season 3 but Season 4 was rlly GUD ; addressing all the mistakes that all the characters made n sticking with Clay ' s mental issues n Hallucinations ! Am gonna MISS this Show so Muchhh it was my First n the BEST show , soo relatable n was rlly Helpful for me.. everyone should atleast watch this ONCE !
Heyy there, i know am asking a veryy muchh dumb question even after watching the whole season but i didnt get the point that whyy clay did all that grafitti, destroying the camera n all i meann is it like he was suffering from some kind of ptsd or something else.? I didnt get it😅😅
@@almost2059 he has mental issues n was out of his mind ! He himself didn't even realise doing all these ! He keeps on thinking about monty being framed everyday ! So he was totally out if his mind while doing all that
Justin dying was the most upsetting part of the show for me. He is on such a journey and finally ends up with a family. I remember in season 2 being so happy that he wad adopted. I was happy in season 3 with how much he fit in and felt loved. Same with 4, and then he is just killed off.
I don’t think its the fact he died but mainly how they did it like on a rush , you could feel they just wanted to kill off one of the characters without really affecting most of the story line during the season. I think if Zach had died after the car crash ( the one that’s litteraly never brought up ) it would have made SOOO much more sense.
it would make more sense if they had a full story line to backup the events ( like Justin's death) they needed another season to fit all the shit that came crashing down, it happened way to quickly.
@@Xavier-kq9hp but I think that's the point, I mean shit can happen at any moment. Like they said for a moment in time everyone let go, and shit went crashing down
The part that frustrated me most was Clay's plot armor. What does this kid need to do in order to get expelled or arrested? In season 4 alone, he: 1. Blew up the principal's car 2. Destroy security cameras at the school 3. Started multiple fights 4. Started a riot 5. Stole a gun from a cop and waved it around 6. Escaped from a mental institution 7. Went to a police station and yelled that he had a gun 8. Totalled Zach's car and just walked away from the scene. After all that, he still ends up going to an ivy league school (Even after intentionally bombing his college admissions interview). It's like he can do anything and just show up to school the next day like nothing happened. I understand that it's a TV show and of course things are going to be sensationalized but at some point events don't matter if you know that the character is going to end up completely fine.
Absolute truth. Like, I love Clay he's my fave, but honestly he was absolutely falling apart in S4 and it left all the realms of realism. In S1 Clay gets run off the road and has a cut on his forehead for the rest of the season, and in S4 he flips Zach's car going 100mph and its chill, no biggie?! They both should have died, or it should have been a hallucination. Or one dead, one in a coma. The show was just entirely ridiculous by then... I was re-watching S1 yesterday and its an entirely different vibe. So much more believable, despite the drama.
THIS. I also thought it was incredibly frustrating how seemingly none of the other students are able to think or speak for themselves. I thought it was so hilarious how during the school protest scene, most of the students try to flee but ALL of them suddenly turn around as soon as Clay speaks up. Everyone else just lays around like sitting ducks until the main crew decides it's time for them to do something.
This season was pointless Alex could’ve told his dad & it could’ve been covered instead of framing Monty. Plus let’s be serious , we all knew Alex was gay from the start.
right like he litterly, vandalized school property,started a fight in a frat house because he had thoughts about raping a girl , started a fight in the cafeteria,started a fight at a party and all of these fights he was clearly in the wrong, drove drunk then crashed zachs car and left zach for dead, assaulted a police officer took his gun pointed at everyone including himself, ran away from the hospital,set the principals car on fire which caused an explosion. Like damn he should have either been in jail or in a psych ward.
i felt pretty bad at all the expenses he incurred and all the prep work he did to try and get alex to go to prom with him, just for 5 seconds of rejection the first two times they're always spending so much on nonsense and then the idiots complain about being poor next episode :P
This season had white privilege written all over. Clay is a psychopath causing all kinds of destruction and he never faces consequences. Starting a riot, setting a car ablaze, vandalizing the school, covering up a literal murder. But was chosen to be the senior speaker at graduation, what a joke. He got the complexion for protection. Alex, whose COP father helps his son get away with the murder and promises to never have it investigated again. Tyler gets busted with illegal guns but guess what! Instead of doing time for possession of illegal firearms he gets a pat on the back and just helps the cops out to avoid prison. Wow, if Clay, Alex, or Tyler were a person of color...well you know the rest.
Nana Anokye I doubt it. You’re overestimating the writers. If they wanted to bring awareness to white privilege in the show, they would’ve talked about it/had it called out IN the show.
Yeah this definitely bothered me as well. I feel like they tried with the whole "mexican" comment when the police officer attacked Diego, but there's no way they should've gotten off scot free. One counter argument is that they let off Tony when he should've gotten a third strike, but the show could've done way more to address white privilege.
Alex killed Bryce in the last season and his biggest problem this season was his sexuality? Talk about a tangent. And Justin's character was hands down the most tragic since the start of the show. He had the most unfortunate backstory. Everyone else's life seemed relatively stable yet they were the cause of their own issues; Alex, Clay, Jessica, Bryce, Zach etc. But Justin was a product of his environment, living on the streets, no father, an addict for a mother etc. The timeline of his death was very short though. Everyone knows it takes at least a year to die from AIDS. Not one week. And can we talk about how Ani seemed like such an important chess piece last season and was absent for half of this season? its like they had no idea what to do with her character after she recounted the redemption of Bryce, which by the way was sickening. And will you please explain why Clay flipping totalled Zach's car and got out without a scratch? Literally without a scratch. And what the hell was that scene with Clay and the drunk college girl? Was he actually going to rape her? He seemed like such a feminist and social justice warrior in that regard and suddenly wanted join in on the fuckery? Like I get that he had 10 new personalities but potential rapist should not have been one of them. I personally thought Winston was irrelevant in the show besides helping Alex figure out he's gay. He was loose end in the framing of Monty for Bryce's death but in reality it really wasn't a case worth fighting for. Winston had a very brief relationship with Monty so he didn't owe him that much + Monty was already dead. it's not like proving Monty didn't kill Bryce would have had any impact on Monty's future because the worst had already happened to him. I mean, Monty was already a rapist, what's one more crime? especially seeing as it was the murder of another rapist. Overall I thought it was crazy that clay suffered the most and had the scariest internal battles when he didn't harm any single person.
I agree. A similar scene was shown with zack and the hooker and it was extremely wrong and irrelevant. Also Justin was raped as a child by one of his mom’s boyfriends :( About the AIDS they said he had it one year ago when he lived in the streets.
@@squilliamwfancyson I think they couldn't have sex because of Hannah's ghost or something. I agree the virgin plot was unnecessary. And it's surprising he didn't have sex with his girlfriend Annie either.
Central Intelligence Agency the whole season lol. He lights a car on fire, gets seen in front of a passed out drunk girl, GRABS THE COPS GUN AND AIMS IT AT EVERYONE AROUND HIM, comes into a police station claiming to have a gun, walks into the school with a knife in his hand and covered in what appeared to be blood, they find out he smashed the cameras at the school, he was one the the people involved in starting the school riot, starts a fight at school and then at the party, and he was a major suspect in Bryces death last season which any logical character (that wasn’t involved in knowing Alex killed him) this season would reconsider seeing how batshit crazy he acts this season. The biggest punishment clay gets is going to the mental facility which he bails out of and then nothing happens lol.
I honestly didn’t like this season that much. Some stuff Clay did annoyed me and some scenes were cringe. All the kids fighting the police and nobody got brutally attacked or maced ? And the secrets clay kept from people right make any VALID sense to keep . Why would he keep away everything he knew about Winston ? He gained a lot when Justin was down but hated when he was doing good .. idk this season wasn’t needed. Season 2&3 were the best for me EDIT PLEASE SHOW LOVE TO MY MUSIC PAGE @ OHMYGOD ITS JUDAH
Sophie Linn i think the way charlie and alex were written out was perfect. it made more sense than having alex and winston. only because it felt like winston had no closure over what happened with monty. he still was in love with monty and i thought it was beautiful to see the closure he got at the end of the season while dancing with monty. idk it just felt better that winston ended up alone and come to terms with his love for monty
It feels like this season was written by 12 year olds. The characters were poorly written and barely likable anymore, ESPECIALLY Clay. Like are we supposed to be rooting for these characters that cover up a murder and frame someone else. No one faced any consequences for their actions. Nothing made any sense. I didn’t have high expectations to begin with but wow. Just wow. Terrible
@Ryanator no its just that they got away with it. This show isn't realistic. I don't get how people are having a hard time with them covering it up. Life isn't fair and what they did wasn't fair. That's just how it. be sometimes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I loved this season. It was perfect for me. Minus Justin’s death. Losing Justin legitimately feels like I lost a close friend. It hurt and it feels like I’m grieving.
I loved it too, but they should’ve shown more Monty and Winston scenes and Monty’s home relationships. It would’ve been really interesting to see those things. And i wished Clay would have a conversation with his friends about him seeing Monty and Bryce!
I could not get on board with this season at all. Clay was very annoying this season, and the whole Winston and football team story was soooo dumb and annoying. I wasn't on board with Winston since his character was introduced. Forcefully made to do a sexual act, then severely assulted, but you still go back and sleep with Monty....but then becomes super obsessed with someone he met twice and the first time you met you were beat to all hell. Changes schools and targets a group of friends for what???? Monty was killed in prison not because he was framed for Bryce but because of the actual crime he committed, sexual assault. So the whole football team particularly Diego being THAT invested was weird. Im glad Montys ghost even told him he didn't know him lol, so dumb. But then Winston also loves Alex?? They were talking for like 2 weeks. They took Clay having psychological problems too far it was over the top. And i was so sick of everyone seeing ghosts 🙄
@Ryanator Exactly!! Lol dude was missing time and doing stuff without knowing. Thats so dangerous...yet he tells no one and suffers no consequences. We was literally grinding an axe outside of a cabin of students for crying out loud 🤦🏽♂️
Your whole part about Winston; I completely agree. I've been saying this since the last episode of season 3. I just honestly couldn't like his character and the whole charade of getting justice for Monty after all the horrible things he did to people especially Tyler. Then Diego and the team just proves how idiotic they are with following along with Winston.
My major problem with this season is the fact that While Winston was investigating monty, literally no one said out loud that Monty was an awful person. NO ONE, not even tyler. Which makes no sense. Everyone of the jocks are acting like Monty was a saint. I get that he was your friend but trying to clear monty's name because you think he didnt kill another one of their friends who was also a horrible person . Winston should have learned about all the horrible things monty did, but when he confronted tyler and alex, they both didnt say shit, which only makes winston feel as if monty was a good guy. The jocks go around mentally torturing clay and nothing comes of it. WInston saying he loved Monty was so god damn stupid.. I know they are kids but who the hell tries to get justice for someone who beat you senseless and only met for 2 times. I will never get over the idea that the writers wanted us to feel something for monty by pulling the gay card, they did the same with alex. being a closited gay maked one angry but not in the way Monty acted. and his relationship with Winston was very very toxic and it shows a gays in a negative light.
Winston's motivation for wanting revenge lacked credibility. I tought that they would show flashback explaining why Winston cared that much about Monty, but we are apparently supposed to believe that Winston was in love with a guy that beat him up and raped an other guy just because he had sex with him twice ?
I know! Why was Monty so revered? He beat Winston's face in. Bryce actually bribed him to keep him quiet. Then he went back to Monty and falls in love? Monty and two of his buddies sexual assault on Tyler was horrifying. He was bleeding internally. That was another thing-he needed to go to ER to be treated and didn't. Then Monty became someone both some fans and the show runner felt was secretly wonderful. That the viewers should feel bad that he was killed. A one night stand and everything is just wonderful? Plus, Clay running an axe across the door to scare the group. It just was there and nothing came of it. Justin's descent into being terminally ill was well handled for the most part. The actors involved did a terrific job. Yet, Justin developed lesions and the rest of it within what seemed to be a week. Plus, did the whole school visit the hospital? I would think that would be not very realistic.
@@shsharding44 Season 3 tried to humanize Bryce and show why even if he did all those bad things, his death was still a tragedy. Season 4 did the same thing with Monty... but without showing any of it. We are told that he was a good friend and we see that Winston was in love with him, but we don't see anything that show why we should feel bad that Monty died. We are just told that it's tragic and that we should feel bad about it. Even the fact that his father was a monster is not brought back at all despite his sister being an important character this season.
same i was like 'i'm happy as long as justin ends up happy' i guess he did. He had parents who loved him, friends who cared about him, and a brother who was always there for him that's more than a lot of us get
Clay and Justin got so close, a real loving brotherly relationship. Justin was family (adopted) and he was the closest to Clay so Justin completely understood/got Clay, which Clay would have needed his support to get past all the high school drama, as they moved on in life. Clay and Tony are close but, Tony has a family. Clay and his parents WERE Justin's family, and since neither had siblings it would have been nice if they could have had each other in their future as adults.
deadass💀💀i feel like some of the shit he did was glossed over. like he left zach for dead ?¿?¿¿ after crashing his car ?¿?? and that was barely talked about ??¿?¿?
The show has ended the way I’ve always wanted it to, with clay and tony driving off in the mustang towards their futures, no longer having to keep secrets. Now please god no more seasons 😂
@sophie it was genuinely very terrible. Even the sad death scene couldn't help it even if it was an honest tear jerker because right after it went back to this show that did nothing but drag on.
I watched the first 7 episodes. Then I just jumped to the end so I wouldn’t waste another unnecessary 2 hours. I skipped through most of the final episode. Season was completely horrible.
it was pretty shit. i hate-binge-watched the whole thing while i worked and it was fucking ridiculous at times. it's almost offensive how they think teenagers act lmao i still cried a lot over justin but jesus what a shitshow
It bothers me that Clay’s three-second stand with the policeman’s daughter didn’t go anywhere. They could have done more with that because she was obviously targeting him. Also, WHY do characters ALWAYS pick up the supposed murder weapon????? If I was surrounded by a pool of what I thought was blood and there was a bloody knife sitting in the middle of it, common sense would be to get out of there! He knowingly picked it up anyway 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ WHHYYYYY???
Right? There's just *so* much stuff that happens this season that's completely irrelevant, unnecessary or unresolved. What the hell was the point of (was her name Vanessa? I can't remember) having this encounter with Clay and, as you said, *clearly* targeted him, just go absolutely nowhere. What was the point of that? Why'd they single her out as the daughter of an ongoing cop character? Why not just make some random girl at the party who wanted some Clay action? Also, in fairness to Clay, he's never had sex before. It was dumb to ask if she finished but come on, it's his first time. The fact that he asked her though was kind of funny.
The only good part in this season was the school shooter drill. I actually felt concerned and like I was in the moment, the rest sucked and made no sense. Also Winstons character was so annoying and not needed.
Winston's storyline was really underdeveloped. He was there as a black cloud for the group, to keep them scared that he could expose their coverup of the murder, but we didn't see enough of him nor did the story go anywhere.
The school shooter drill was the weakest episode in my opinion. I was actually enjoying it when I thought it was a real school shooting, but when they revealed it was just a drill, it pissed me off so much. Not only was it completely unrealistic, but half of the characters seemed to brush it off like it was fine, even though they'd been put through unbelievable stress and trauma for no reason.
@@Snoppapa no way in hell would they bring armed men in tactical gear into the school firing blank rounds for a drill. That kind of thing could easily result in legitimate PTSD and mentally scar kids for life. It would be ethically inexcusable and would cause a nationwide scandal when it inevitably made it to the news and social media. The head teacher might even go to jail.
Russell Jackson Actually, there have been a couple of highschools in the news for firing blanks during shooter drills. It’s really traumatic for the students
The ending should have been clay waking up and realising that everything in the show was a dream, and he has time to save Hannah I think that woulda saved the show
Lol that would make the whole show meaningless. Actions have consequences and the shows main point is to show how Hannah's one action effected everyone's lives.
Honestly, Clay and the lack of consequences ruined this season for me. A lot of the characters actually improved, like Ani and Alex, and Zach and Justin were great as usual. But Clay, commiting all these crimes and not getting in trouble was too much (also what shitty moral compasses). He was an even bigger dick than before; what he did to Zach, getting down on Justin for getting sober, being smug. I haven't been able to enjoy the show properly because of him for a long time.
Exactly! I loved Ani this season! I really wish there was more of her! Ani, Jessica and Justin were the characters that give me the strength to binge-watch Season 4.
T Mitch Period! And the way he treated Ani was sickening to watch! All the things he put her through, how he blew her off every single chance he got, how he would yell at her when she was just looking out for him and told her he never loved her at PROM!! 😪 Ani deserves SOOOOO MUCH BETTER 💔 Then he meets Heidi who is especially a COPY of Ani (smart and into that Alien Robot Space thing) except she hasn’t seen Clay for who he is yet... 🙄
Cried at the end Everybody forgets about Alex killing Bryce still messed up Clay is a crazy I knew from the begging he was going to be the antagonist of the story A lot of plot holes Certain characters weren't needed for the series to end they were just a waste Horrible ending I was left feeling something was missing Solid 7/10 They could do better
The last two seasons shouldnt have happened, clay is annoying and probably the most unlikable main character on any show ever, until the last third of the season, it dragged was unnecessarily long and unrealistic and they shoved a billion storylines in the season for the sake of it, police brutality, racism, sexual violence, substance abuse, mental health, a riot, a school shooting lockdown and a HIV storyline that was factually incorrect. The actors weren’t the problem it was the writing and the fact they wanted to milk a very popular show for all the money they could even though it should have ended after season two at the latest.
Eh season 3 was annoying because Ani being really nosey and everyone unrealistically opened up to her.. at least in this season she seemed to mind her business more lol
this show has been my favorite since season 1. i love how dark it is. and it’s attention to detail with characters. i love how we slowly watch every character slowly go deep into a dark hole, and come back out. i love all characters. and like i said. the dark tone is so amazing. the only thing i do not like is how the shows tone changed so much from season one. i understand why, but i like the original feel. but in all. this show a massive masterpiece, and i’ll always love and remember it. i’ll always remember the first time watching. (i wish Hannah and the other original characters were brought up more in the last 2 seasons)
They had a almost complete ending in episode 9 with the kids dancing into the night with all problems basically tied off, then they give the best built character hiv and aids and kill him off all in one episode for “shock value” imo they ducked the ending and made it not feel like an ending
I think that, in the last scene of season 4, Tony and Clay feel like they have no more things to say. The silence between them is because they have no more things in common and nothing to talk about, except for all the things they've been through.
Agree. Most of this show is shit, but that was a solid ending. Appreciated no music backing, just the engine pushing them forward into the future. Everytime Tony and Clay get together in the Mustang, shit goes bad. Finally, there was nothing to say.
Marcus graduated because he was older than the others. According to a real-life response from the email address Clay gave to Heidi, Sherri left Liberty after season 1 (or 2? can't remember) and moved down south.
@@harambae7014 I see but did Marcus get the university he wanted despite his ruined reputation in season 2? And did Sherri still get the university she wanted despite being a criminal and/or still become successful?
In season 1 Clay would split his head open every time he fell off his bike, yet he drives a car off a cliff and it spins a good few times and that he walks away from it without a scratch?????
i actually really like this season. sure it has it's faults but so do all their seasons, some repercussions for people's actions would have been nice rather than everything just being brushed under the carpet would have been better. everybody seems to get away with everything without punishment which was a little annoying and should definitely of had a bit more from Alex suffering with his guilt of murdering Bryce. i also, unlike most people, don't think Justin's death was that surprising. the nurse even said he probably got HIV from being on the streets so it wasn't just months and looking back at other seasons you can see moments where something was up. maybe they should have had him diagnosed a couple seasons back and had a storyline around that so his death made a little more sense to people? definitely absolutely heartbreaking the way he died but unfortunately not too surprising all in all a few flat moments and moments that didn't make sense but a pretty great send off of this show
@Ryanator i honestly don't know if anybody but Zach even knew Clay was driving or if he was even there at all. Zach got thrown out of the veichle so it would have been unclear if he was driving or not, he may have been pissed at Clay but not said anything and just excepted responsibility for the damage. do agree though something should have been either said more bout it to explain why there was no backlash from it or Clay should have got in some shit over it. Clay running around doing stupid shit all the time and never facing consequences was my biggest complaint about this season
Was waiting for this video so I could comment on the season. All in all, I thought it was pretty solid, I found that I enjoyed binging this one a lot more than the previous seasons and the story rounded itself off very well. Dylan Minnette was absolutely incredible with his portrayal of clay Jensen this season in my opinion. The character redemption of Justin was so amazing to see and with how it ended was crushing. Charlie was arguably one of the more likeable characters in the series with no solid reason to hate the guy. Really impressed with this one, potentially my favourite season of the show. And seeing Tyler happy with estella was also great I think, Tyler really did deserve something good to happen to him
Hahaha but on a serious point, it was never brought up again. Surely after that she should’ve had a bit more of a say in the series. On the other hand was proud of my boy Clay
I truly believe this was the second best season behind the first, simply because I was so invested in these characters and no other season brought me on a ride like this one
This season gave me more than 13 reasons to jump off several skyscrapers. The cinematography was great, the actors are decent, and the writing is FUCKING ABYSMAL. Four different people have unacknowledged schizophrenia, and everybody abuses guns but nobody gets in trouble for it. I was laughing my ass of for most of the season, and the Justin death was the only emotional moment for me.
This whole season didn’t need to happen. Like why did Justin have to die 😭😭😭 it was just so confusing! Did they really need this to happen to bring them together? Maybe idk.
One thing that really bothered me as Justin got sick was the total indifference towards his well-being by his adopted “family.” We could see the lesion on his neck, but why the hell didn’t Clay or his parents wonder what-the-hell was going on? If my son had lesions on his body, and I could see one of them, I would sure as hell would get him checked out by a doctor. Massive fail by Clay and his parents.
I’m sorry but don’t defend this stupid show that basically makes it seem like you can either get away with everything in high school or no one will care what you do and no one can help you
I totally agree. This one was a mess.. Honestly they all were after season one. I was so angry when I watched this one because I disliked all the characters at the end for the choices they made and the fact there were no repercussions for ANYTHING they did. Like wtf is that teaching kids?
“Let the dead bury the dead” Great message for teenagers lol, commit murder and dump the blame on someone else. Hopefully they’ll die in jail and you can learn to “love yourself”
I LOATHE ALEX WITH SUCH A PASSION AND IT PISSES ME OFF THAT HE FELT LITTLE REPERCUSSIONS FOR HIS TOXIC AND VIOLENT BEHAVIOR AND COMMITTING A LITERAL MURDER AND JUST BEING ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH. HE WAS EVEN A LITTLE SHIT IN RELATIONSHIP WITH CHARLIE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ACT LIKE ITS SO CUTE. I ALSO DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WINSTON WAS 'IN LOVE'(!?) WITH HIM. HE HAS THE PERSONALITY OF A RANCID SLICE OF CHEESE AND IS ONLY INTERESTING BECAUSE OF HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHER CHARACTERS LIKE ZACH.
People who like this show are obviously being paid somehow to say it’s good. There is no way a sane person could like this train wreck of a season. Clay should’ve been arrested several times.
As a guy who has suffered from anxiety..... The portrayal of clay was very accurate. May be a little over the top at some point but as a whole it was perfect
Can someone explain to me why Clay would graffiti the school in the first place? It’s like he almost wants to get locked up in jail. In season 3, the main characters get away with framing an innocent pier but then Clay graffitis the school? Why would you reopen a murder case in which you played a vital role in?
AUGmatt13 clay felt really guilty about framing monty, he had a different side to him that does illegal/wrong things out of the guilt he was dealing with. clay probably just had a moment when that other side of him kicked in, he graffitied the school and then couldn’t remember any of it. that’s the impression i got anyway. maybe clay just wanted the truth to come out, because he was tired of keeping everything a secret and it obviously had a very negative effect on his mental health.
Excellent takes. In retrospect, it would have been easy to predict Justin’s death after his relapse in a prior episode, as I don’t believe the series would have concluded with him alive, yet still addicted to drugs. He was either going to sober up completely or succumb to it... realistic or not, I just don’t think the show would’ve left him alive without resolving it in some way.
Clay was one of the few guys that truly cared about Hannah (S1), he took care of Justin, helped him recover from drugs and offered him a home and a family (S2), he was also the guy who helped Tyler and was a big part of his healing process (S3). He wanted to be a hero and actually became one. I guess on S4 he couldn't do it anymore, and i can imagine how exhausted he felt for keeping all those secrets. I didn't enjoy him on this season and wanted to tell him to stfu several times but watching him as Justin's BROTHER on his last days made me remember why I liked his character. Sorry for my english, it's not my mother language.
Can I just say that all the main cast are REALLY good at acting. RIP Justin he deserved better. I’m sorry but clay needed a lot more psychological help. He seemed borderline schizophrenic and faced so much psychological trauma.
bells _in_your_head he was defo a danger to himself and others. After escaping the mental institution he was never sent back because apparently everything was alright again. Which it defo wasn’t. I know him and alex can deal w trauma in their own ways but it felt weird knowing that Alex was the one who essentially “murdered” Bryce but literally didn’t seem that bothered by it.
I’m going to keep it 💯 the show after season 2 went downhill really fast and what we got in season 4 was a dumpster fire. Season 4 was so pointless. The plot was that they could’ve gotten exposed and the truth would’ve came out and all of a sudden Winston drops it. Wtf!!!! There was no climax at all. This season was just about the final episode. They milked a season 4 just to talk about their future in the final 1 and a half hour episode.
Also...can we just acknowledge the fact that Wisnton didn't seem that in love with Alex....enough to keep this secret about draining the actual man he "loved". Just saying.....I always thought W was just using A to get some more answers.
@@bells_in_your_head I dont think he was "in love" with Alex either. They spent like 2 weeks together. And tbh he only met Monty twice so this whole clearing his name story line was dumb to begin with. W had no reason to be this hellbent on revenge. Monty wasn't even killed because of the Bryce thing he was killed in prison because of the crime he actually committed sexual assault. Even the football players were a bit much, made no sense.
A scene that i loved was Winston and Monty’s dance. Throughout the season, Winston’s eagerness to prove Monty’s innocence made me forget all the horrible things he was guilty of. I was even rooting for them/him. In that scene at the dance, Monty says ‘you fell in love with the idea of me’ which is so true. Monty would never, ever, accept himself and the idealistic love story between them wouldn’t have ever happened. We fell in love with the idea of them being happy and the show made me forget how evil he actually was.
That car crash and lack of real injuries was ridiculous. I hope kids don't watch this and think that is reality and I hope they don't take the lack of consequences throughout the show too literal.
Jonathan Colebrooke What if Winston comes back for revenge because Alex isn’t with him anymore🤔because remember Alex told him everything about bryces death....like even thoe he gave him the tape recorder he could still reach out to Montes sister and tell her the truth an maybe that would build up some hatred for Alex in her causing her to go after him an maybe even going as far as to even killing him....with the aid of Winston of course(Just a theory thoe)
This series hooked me from the beginning and that was it. A devoted fan was born. The acting is incredible and I loved every minute. 💥 Can’t wait to see what these actors do next. PS Dylan’s music is excellent too. 🎤🎸
Season 1 really exposed me to a lot of good music. I felt like the music choices in season 4 weren't as strong. I'm happy they used Beach House though!
this season was all over the damn place. they kept adding more and more drama without even addressing it in the next episode and those kids got away with WAY TOO MUCH like fighting police officers and not to mention getting away with murder.... idk the actors did a good job but they should’ve ended the show after last season
Initially I did not like this season and was quite disappointed about the amount of drama it lacked. But only at the end I realized that I looked at it from the wrong perspective. This was a season about post decisions and a solid conclusion. I think the season did what it was meant to do by being called a “final season” and 13RW will definitely be one to remember.
I ranked every Season of 13 Reasons Why! Do you agree with me?
th-cam.com/video/LEczN6XzU6Q/w-d-xo.html
I saw that but its very difficult to rank except 3😁
What pissed me off about this is that Clay never apologized for being an asshole to Justin. He spent the entire season putting Justin down and making him feel like shit even though Justin was trying to be better.
I feel like same exact way with Jessica. Clay and Jessica were easily the two worst characters this season.
Carolina’s Thoughts Show amen!
Harmony so? Even at his deathbed he didn’t apologize.
Even i felt like that everytime justin tries to be a better person clay or either Jessica was standing in his way
And dr ellman! He never said sorry or even hugged him ;(
Idk why but the ending of this show feels so... Weird for me. I'm not happy or sad. It feels like I'm lost. My mind is so empty
Honestly this show should of ended after season 2 or 3
Once Hannah left the show got boring
Juicy Drop top Hannah made the show boring imo
was it because we actually witnessed characters who make up their own versions of moral code, get away with murder, and then try to make it seem like it's okay in the end because "they deserve happiness"?
I was actually bored after Justin passed. It was a dragged out finale.
Hands up who cried there heads off when justin said to clay 'hold my hand bro' then later dies 😭😭
Me
Such a sad moment!
And when they said love you to each other 😭😭
Clay never got to call him his brother 😭😭😭
I'm not going to lie. I thought I was going to vomit I was crying so HARD when that went down.
i’m glad you mentioned how they completely underused tyler, it’s such a shame because devin druid is a great actor and portrays him really well
I noticed that last season,Tyler would often cross his arms across his chest when he was feeling nervous or threatened. In one of the hospital scenes,Tyler went back to that bit of body language. Very consistent.
It's such a shame because in Season 2 and 3 he really did show just how talented he was!
Shanahan harding i noticed that too! i really wish that we could have seen more into tyler’s character and how he learnt to not hate monty by the end of the season
His arc was ended by the end of season 3 didnt really needed to be in this season as much
in my humble opinion his story line was more or less resolved. He got justice for his rape, he overcame his loneliness and has a good support line, he spoke up about his sexual assault, he's definitely more stable and happy. There wasn't much reason to keep dragging him into the narrative unless for silly melodrama. how this season handled his recovery and continued development was fine
Justin is dead...... What can be more depressing n sad
I dont know. I was crying for hours. He did not deserve to die
I cried so much
i felt terrible
Honestly, he is the only character whose death i think could really hit me hard
Right! I'm actually angry they killed him off
Dylan Minnette couldn't have played his role better. Clay was **savage** this season
Justin died ):
@Ryanator I mean, he was suffering from dissociation and anxiety
@Ryanator In which episode was he almost going to rape?
@Ryanator Man you just need a reason to hate, isn't it?
They had shown his mental condition becoming the worst of all possibilities.
Couldn't you just stop taking everything to heart and enjoy the show?
@@varunnaik7441 I guess to some extent you could say his condtion affected his interactions with people, but he was very selfish and would lash out at people for seemingly no reason, like when he lashed out at ani for writing his college essay and turning it in for him. Perhaps she could have communicated this to him better to avoid stress, but when she informed him that he wouldn't get in trouble for his essay, he was still angry at her for helping him out. Maybe he's always been like that to some extent but he seemed like more of a prick this season.
If the school shooting drill was actually Tyler it would've had the whole season better with him being arrested and all the secrets being exposed instead of the stupid riots and everyone getting off easy
I totally agree. I wish the group got caught. I throughly enjoy season 4 but I think the show would of worked better if the group got caught. I mean they all regretted killing or keeping secrets. Some of them should of gotten caught.
That episode was in poor taste, but definitely could’ve been redeemed a little if Tyler actually had done it.
joextreme why? i am not saying that i do not support that cause because Floyd did not deserve what happened to him. but why should they ban a show that has nothing to do with what is going on in current events?
@joextreme - Why do you call them riots? They were protests, many of them peaceful or started peacefully.
The disclaimer at the beginning of the episode made no sense lol there was a warning for violence, but there was none
Clay gets in a car crash with Zach, clay leaves zach on the car and he almost DIES; the next day Clay doesn't have one scratch and faces no consequences and zach just forgives him? wtf?
yeah, the writers stopped caring about logic this season.
Zach didn't forgive him, did you watch the damn episode?
(+ There is a time jump)
That was waaaay after the car crash
That wasn’t the next day...there was clearly a time jump
It's not a day later
So Alex kills someone and then moves on with his life??
It was Bryce lol you want him to lose sleep on him
Azariah Carty Well Bryce was a terrible person but still even if I killed anyone it’d be weird to have that burden on myself!
Alex had a brain injury, broken body, also almost died again in s4 and he felt utterly nihilistic and worthless ever since Hannah's death, then his utterly failed relationship with Jess (someone he deeply cared about) -he never felt happy or felt a moment's peace. He also tried to kill himself with a gun in s1 as we all know, was disabled and so on. But even despite that he regretted throwing Bryce into the river who raped and led to the death of the ppl closest to him and bryce was still going on about how he will ruin ppl close to him again. So I could also imagine why his character among all others could do what he did.
As a result, given his sense of worthlessness and brain injury he tried to get rid of anything positive coming into the way of his life. So what happened with Charlie is a very big miracle and sth his character needed. He had suffered long and hard.
Therefore Alex is a very complicated character and he faced various repercussions and trauma since s1. He even owned up to what he did and essentially surrendered. As jess said he deserved to be happy in the end. He didn't necessarily get away and lived on a bed of roses till now. Also Justin's horrible death finally helped him to come to terms with a lot of his misery and appreciate what he has while he's still alive.
I kept hoping they would kill Alex in the season, if someone had to die , it shouldn't of been Justin
@@bonbonvrock84 trauma does not mean that you get to traumatize or kill others. I'm sorry but it does not.
This show went from a suicide and tapes making people feel guilty all the way to those same people trying to cover their asses for a murder. And throughout seasons 2, 3 and 4 we have fewer and fewer characters to genuinely like.
It's definitely to show no one in the show is wholly good and that everyone has different sides to them
this shows end is a dumpster fire.
The only character
worth anything at all was Justin. Everyone else was so annoying and made the dumbest choice imaginable.
One the shows most likable characters spent the whole drunk/high and then outta nowhere attempted to rape a prostitute he brought to prom. 😳 like huh? what is this show
Exactly. And these band of "friends" , are so vindictive, suspects everybody, trust nobody, have this " be a hero" fetish.
And Jessica was so irritating, and so manipulative , like she's judge and jury and anybody who opposes her are traitors
So why was Clay's drug test positive ??? That wasn't ever explained
Pretty sure he ate weed cookies on the camping trip
He did the drugs he just didn't remember just like the graffiti and the camping trip shit
Yeah, he got a weed cookie from Charlie but he wasn’t told it was a weed cookie
I think it was presumed that it is due to the alter ego
Oh yeah forgot about that
Dr. Ellman was the real MVP of this season! Underrated character.
They didn’t utilize him as much as they could have
you mean lieutenant dan???
Agree! Amazing!
No I’m Dirty Dan! I knew I had seen him somewhere!! Haha 😂
No I’m Dirty Dan! So that’s where I know him from 😂
Isn't it kinda weird Tyler got involved with his rapist's sister?
Well she’s not a rapist soo not really but I see what you mean
Not rly since Monty's sister had nothing to do with it
@@Your_-Dad Isn't it weird if he meet his parents and they notice he is their son's victim?
yeah, i know they're very different people but that didn't really sit right with me
i didn t even thought on that... lol
Jessica moved on from Justin damnnnn fast...one month?!?
I know.. I didn't like that!
@@BrainPilot it took me over a year to move on from my dog dying 😅 when she seemed so happy at graduation that didn't seem right or realistic at all :/ her and Justin should have been graduating together
Tinyboots ya they should’ve added more emotion for her and more time for her to move on.
Agree. Jessica needed to learn how to be single. Going from Justin to Diego almost immediately was not right. I love her character, but her character made her co-dependent.
Are you surprised though? She’s easily the least likeable character in my opinion. All she does is boss people around, complain, refuses to take accountability for anything, the way she treated clay for Diego knowing good and well that clay is being bullied and tormented for covering up for her and Alex,
getting mad at Justin for wanting space to get better and then throwing shade at him an hinting that he’s gonna relapse again to spite him, then sleeping around with one of his team mates, being mean asf to Annie, speaking and trying to rule over Montys sister etc. when she was with Alex she used her rape experience to not have sex with him but was literally cheating and sleeping around with Justin. Like she’s easily the most selfish, corny and self centered character on the show.
Clay was more unbearable than in other seasons... There was no likable character this season... Everyone was just awful. Tyler and Justin were almost the only salvageable characters
And Zach he was awesome
The only likeable characters imo were Charlie, Tyler, Mr. & Mrs. Jensen, and Clay's therapist. I agree that Justin was salvageable and I'll throw Tony in that category. Like they were both okay, but not completely bad like the others in their friend group (that I didn't already mention). Clay, Alex, Jessica, and Ani were all insufferable and should've gone to jail (as well as Charlie as much as I like his character). Zach was just kind of there being annoying for the majority of the season.
Edgar Trujillo Charlie was the most like able. Their relationship was the only healthy one the whole show
I won’t hear this Charles Hayden Brixton St. George slander !
I agree I rlly hated Jessica the whole time I was saying she belong to the streetzz
Idk if anyone is going to read this but:
I really enjoyed the show as a whole but Season 4 was really bad (the acting was great though, especially Dylan Minnette). Many plots didn't make sense, didn't contribute to the story or weren't explained at the end. Like: Why would Clay and Ani not tell the others about Winston in the beginning? How did Tyler secretly helping the cops contribute to the story? Why the hell did no one face any consequences at all, e.g. Clay almost killed Zach (who was suddenly okay with it after a "get your shit together"), the footballers pulled "pranks" on Clay blackmailing, threatening him and leaving him in a hole for dead and everyone acted like it's nothing just because Clay is mentally ill and now can't be taken serious and doesn't have any rights anymore or what? Wtf?
What pissed me off the most was the shooting drill. Though I enjoyed the episode, I hated how they handled it afterwards. It was barely discussed and did not have any consequences at all. This is some serious trauma for the students that the school caused and the school got away with it (don't make me start talking about the riot lol) - which is very poor for a show that's all about trauma. It was handled like it was wrong but not serious. If I was a parent, I would be all over the place (like Clays father was - for 10 seconds).
The timing of some character developments were disproportionate (e.g. Alex struggled from Episode 1-9 because he thought he is a bad person and then in Ep10 he's suddenly more light and accepting of himself), and some characters weren't necessary at all (Charlie, Winston and Ani, though I loved Charlie). It would have been so much better to show more of Diego and Monty in flashbacks, Diegos grief and need for the truth was somehow understandable but I didn't get Winston at all because: all we knew was (if I remember correctly) he was beaten up by Monty and hooked up with him once. Then he talked about loving him. It was rushed, it was a bad choice of "the wild card". They should have either showed more of Winston and Monty (to understand him better and care more for him) or leave Winston out of it and just focus on Diego and Monty's friendship and/or maybe his sister (underrated character because she most likely witnessed how Monty was treated at home and could've contributed a lot to his character after his death and give him more depth). Loved Clays parents and would have loved to see a scene with them and Justin where they actually talk about him feeling guilty (costing them time, money etc). I think they really loved him and made a big effort of treating him equally and show how much they cared for him - their relationship deserved AT LEAST a talk with Justin at this death bed scene!
The final episode felt like "we have 10 perfect ways of ending the series but we can't decide which one to choose so let's have them all". After Justin's funeral, watching the episode felt like every scene was gonna be "the last scene". It was still okay though. But why have Justin die out of nowhere? I loved Justin and his arc (he's the best in S4, probably had the greatest character development in the show and his death was the only emotional thing about S4 for me). I think it's mainly because they started with a funeral and wanted people to think there was another murder and making characters that already had their perfect arc look unnecessarily suspicious (like Tyler) - because there was no "new story" - this whole season was about dealing with consequences of past decisions and overcoming them (loved the idea) but it was trying so hard to be mysterious like S1-3 and therefore handled its own theme one-dimensionally (only focussing on mental illnesses as a consequence):
There was almost no character (of those who framed Monty) who approached a different way of doing the morally right thing aside from suffering so much that the audience just forgives you out of sympathy. They missed opportunities here of showing different approaches to free yourself from guilt (like confess to relevant characters, face legal consequences etc.). This way, we could have seen "different types" of forgiveness and closure for many characters (like if someone told Ms. Walker the truth and how it might have helped her in her mourning process or for Alex' father not having to carry the burden of his son's secret which can ruin his career he worked hard for etc.).
Also: having crazy produced robot-war-scenes as a pseudo-intellectual metaphor is always a nice try of distracting from lazy, not fully developed storytelling and plotholes. The show started brilliantly as a show about teenagers coping with serious issues and ended up as a show about fucked up teenagers who got away with murder because deep down they're good (although they addressed themselves the injustice of criminals who don't get punished [enough] - double standard). S4 had also great aspects (loved Justin, Clay, Tyler and Alex) but not enough to outweigh the bad ones. Btw: Sorry for the long comment and thanks for reading it if you made it so far! :-)
Great review
It's jus becoming a Trend hating this show now... even if they bring on good seasons ,., idk y ppl are still gonna hate them !
The best It first focused on hanah ' s issues n then on clay ' s anxiety n Hallucination issues ! Which were completely relatable to what happens these days ! And honestly speaking I have learnt a lot from this show.. N it was perfect addressing all these issues which must hv helped the audience ❤
I cried for ages when Justin died😭😭I sobbed when I saw justin twitching cuz i didnt want to see my boi like that i didnt want him to go through that shi man ...com on guys why u gotta take my boi justin he was my homie man. Fkn sad ending
n the moment when Clay was reading Justin's essay and he found out he wrote about him and choked on readin"He's my....brother" i just burst onto tears and my heart exploded!
Almost everything was PERFECT in this Season , I was a bit disappointed with season 3 but Season 4 was rlly GUD ; addressing all the mistakes that all the characters made n sticking with Clay ' s mental issues n Hallucinations ! Am gonna MISS this Show so Muchhh it was my First n the BEST show , soo relatable n was rlly Helpful for me.. everyone should atleast watch this ONCE !
Heyy there, i know am asking a veryy muchh dumb question even after watching the whole season but i didnt get the point that whyy clay did all that grafitti, destroying the camera n all i meann is it like he was suffering from some kind of ptsd or something else.? I didnt get it😅😅
@@almost2059 he has mental issues n was out of his mind ! He himself didn't even realise doing all these ! He keeps on thinking about monty being framed everyday ! So he was totally out if his mind while doing all that
@@kevinlinkll9531 Thank you :-)
Season 5 : Hi it's Justin, Justin Foley
I would cry
No it was the final
@@ikutie5685 i know chill bRuh
Season 5: Justin is back and pregnant
@@dusty6299 Nah wtf 💀
I think we can all agree with one thing:
Dylan was amazing this season
Dylan was amazing throughout the 4 seasons hats off to him
I didnt like him in season 3
No
He should stick to music
Marwen Hosni well I feel like he was at his best this season
They could have caused drama without Justin dying
Justin dying was the most upsetting part of the show for me. He is on such a journey and finally ends up with a family. I remember in season 2 being so happy that he wad adopted. I was happy in season 3 with how much he fit in and felt loved. Same with 4, and then he is just killed off.
I don’t think its the fact he died but mainly how they did it like on a rush , you could feel they just wanted to kill off one of the characters without really affecting most of the story line during the season. I think if Zach had died after the car crash ( the one that’s litteraly never brought up ) it would have made SOOO much more sense.
it would make more sense if they had a full story line to backup the events ( like Justin's death) they needed another season to fit all the shit that came crashing down, it happened way to quickly.
@@Xavier-kq9hp but I think that's the point, I mean shit can happen at any moment. Like they said for a moment in time everyone let go, and shit went crashing down
@@drew-dd9ws they pretty much did have a full storyline backing it up
The part that frustrated me most was Clay's plot armor. What does this kid need to do in order to get expelled or arrested? In season 4 alone, he:
1. Blew up the principal's car
2. Destroy security cameras at the school
3. Started multiple fights
4. Started a riot
5. Stole a gun from a cop and waved it around
6. Escaped from a mental institution
7. Went to a police station and yelled that he had a gun
8. Totalled Zach's car and just walked away from the scene.
After all that, he still ends up going to an ivy league school (Even after intentionally bombing his college admissions interview). It's like he can do anything and just show up to school the next day like nothing happened. I understand that it's a TV show and of course things are going to be sensationalized but at some point events don't matter if you know that the character is going to end up completely fine.
Even without all that saying “fuck you motherfucker” to a head teacher/principle would get you expelled from any normal high school hahaha
Season 4 becomes incredible if you watch it imagining that Clay knows he is in a TV show and is just seeing what he can get away with
Absolute truth. Like, I love Clay he's my fave, but honestly he was absolutely falling apart in S4 and it left all the realms of realism. In S1 Clay gets run off the road and has a cut on his forehead for the rest of the season, and in S4 he flips Zach's car going 100mph and its chill, no biggie?! They both should have died, or it should have been a hallucination. Or one dead, one in a coma. The show was just entirely ridiculous by then... I was re-watching S1 yesterday and its an entirely different vibe. So much more believable, despite the drama.
Nothing happened to him BECAUSE people,the police,everyone KNEW what he was going through.THAT’S WHY.Even the police man hugged him.
Episode 1: Christmas
Episode 3: frickin Valentines Day
Hate when they talk all loud and no one else hears them especially in school 😅
THIS. I also thought it was incredibly frustrating how seemingly none of the other students are able to think or speak for themselves. I thought it was so hilarious how during the school protest scene, most of the students try to flee but ALL of them suddenly turn around as soon as Clay speaks up. Everyone else just lays around like sitting ducks until the main crew decides it's time for them to do something.
Lol yeah about murder 🤣
@@chillcloak ikr or when jess is talking to her women protection group, and the only person answering is Ani
This season was pointless Alex could’ve told his dad & it could’ve been covered instead of framing Monty. Plus let’s be serious , we all knew Alex was gay from the start.
ikr I hate how people were saying they just made him this way for JUST this season. Makes me wonder if they actually watched the show
Bi*
What I first saw Alex I already knew he was gay
ALEX IS BISEXUAL
@@miaplaysroblx6626 Alex is bi, not gay. And yeah, we all knew it from S1.
Clay got away with too much. If he was a kid of color this season would have been 15 mins
right like he litterly, vandalized school property,started a fight in a frat house because he had thoughts about raping a girl , started a fight in the cafeteria,started a fight at a party and all of these fights he was clearly in the wrong, drove drunk then crashed zachs car and left zach for dead, assaulted a police officer took his gun pointed at everyone including himself, ran away from the hospital,set the principals car on fire which caused an explosion. Like damn he should have either been in jail or in a psych ward.
Timmy but Diego gets into one little fight and gets harassed by the police
Seriously!! 😂😂😂
@@Ohimnotjoking right like if there gonna portray police brutality and systematic racism might as well talk about it
Timmy it’s crazy how the writers said yeah that’s a good end wrap it up
Charlie was my favorite because he was just vibing
i felt pretty bad at all the expenses he incurred and all the prep work he did to try and get alex to go to prom with him, just for 5 seconds of rejection the first two times
they're always spending so much on nonsense and then the idiots complain about being poor next episode :P
@@carnsolus yeah, i felt like Alex wasnt that much into it
didnt seem really consensual
Charlie is a hufflepuff!!
Bringing cookies to every event? fave character material
Zack was a king the whole season
It started with Justin Foley. It ended with Justin Foley. 💙
What do you mean?
Ben Simon Justin was the very first person mentioned on the tape 🥺
That smile. That DAMN smile.
This season had white privilege written all over. Clay is a psychopath causing all kinds of destruction and he never faces consequences. Starting a riot, setting a car ablaze, vandalizing the school, covering up a literal murder. But was chosen to be the senior speaker at graduation, what a joke. He got the complexion for protection. Alex, whose COP father helps his son get away with the murder and promises to never have it investigated again. Tyler gets busted with illegal guns but guess what! Instead of doing time for possession of illegal firearms he gets a pat on the back and just helps the cops out to avoid prison. Wow, if Clay, Alex, or Tyler were a person of color...well you know the rest.
Yea prob to bring more awareness to white privelage then
Oh ok
Nana Anokye I doubt it. You’re overestimating the writers.
If they wanted to bring awareness to white privilege in the show, they would’ve talked about it/had it called out IN the show.
show has bad writing all over it
Yeah this definitely bothered me as well. I feel like they tried with the whole "mexican" comment when the police officer attacked Diego, but there's no way they should've gotten off scot free.
One counter argument is that they let off Tony when he should've gotten a third strike, but the show could've done way more to address white privilege.
Alex killed Bryce in the last season and his biggest problem this season was his sexuality? Talk about a tangent.
And Justin's character was hands down the most tragic since the start of the show. He had the most unfortunate backstory. Everyone else's life seemed relatively stable yet they were the cause of their own issues; Alex, Clay, Jessica, Bryce, Zach etc. But Justin was a product of his environment, living on the streets, no father, an addict for a mother etc. The timeline of his death was very short though. Everyone knows it takes at least a year to die from AIDS. Not one week.
And can we talk about how Ani seemed like such an important chess piece last season and was absent for half of this season? its like they had no idea what to do with her character after she recounted the redemption of Bryce, which by the way was sickening.
And will you please explain why Clay flipping totalled Zach's car and got out without a scratch? Literally without a scratch.
And what the hell was that scene with Clay and the drunk college girl? Was he actually going to rape her? He seemed like such a feminist and social justice warrior in that regard and suddenly wanted join in on the fuckery? Like I get that he had 10 new personalities but potential rapist should not have been one of them.
I personally thought Winston was irrelevant in the show besides helping Alex figure out he's gay. He was loose end in the framing of Monty for Bryce's death but in reality it really wasn't a case worth fighting for. Winston had a very brief relationship with Monty so he didn't owe him that much + Monty was already dead. it's not like proving Monty didn't kill Bryce would have had any impact on Monty's future because the worst had already happened to him. I mean, Monty was already a rapist, what's one more crime? especially seeing as it was the murder of another rapist.
Overall I thought it was crazy that clay suffered the most and had the scariest internal battles when he didn't harm any single person.
I think exposing Alex and the rest was important, Monty deserved justice too despite his role.
I think Justin was slowly dying. He was getting scars overtime in the show. It was getting worse he just didn’t know until recently
I agree. A similar scene was shown with zack and the hooker and it was extremely wrong and irrelevant. Also Justin was raped as a child by one of his mom’s boyfriends :( About the AIDS they said he had it one year ago when he lived in the streets.
@@squilliamwfancyson I think they couldn't have sex because of Hannah's ghost or something. I agree the virgin plot was unnecessary. And it's surprising he didn't have sex with his girlfriend Annie either.
I feel like this season was the least best because it never really had a purpose they would be on one topic and on to another
Not sure if they intended to do this, but white privilege was real apparent for Clay Jenson this season.
and Alex Standall!
I know😭 I’m so glad they did that. Cause it’s real! Can’t wait for the people who disagree
😂
There was some but not for Clay. Where is it apparent.
Central Intelligence Agency the whole season lol. He lights a car on fire, gets seen in front of a passed out drunk girl, GRABS THE COPS GUN AND AIMS IT AT EVERYONE AROUND HIM, comes into a police station claiming to have a gun, walks into the school with a knife in his hand and covered in what appeared to be blood, they find out he smashed the cameras at the school, he was one the the people involved in starting the school riot, starts a fight at school and then at the party, and he was a major suspect in Bryces death last season which any logical character (that wasn’t involved in knowing Alex killed him) this season would reconsider seeing how batshit crazy he acts this season. The biggest punishment clay gets is going to the mental facility which he bails out of and then nothing happens lol.
I honestly didn’t like this season that much. Some stuff Clay did annoyed me and some scenes were cringe. All the kids fighting the police and nobody got brutally attacked or maced ? And the secrets clay kept from people right make any VALID sense to keep . Why would he keep away everything he knew about Winston ? He gained a lot when Justin was down but hated when he was doing good .. idk this season wasn’t needed. Season 2&3 were the best for me
EDIT PLEASE SHOW LOVE TO MY MUSIC PAGE @ OHMYGOD ITS JUDAH
This season felt like a horror show, and it was cringe me tf out. First season was the best imo
indilligent and also a lot of episodes were skip worthy, like the school shooter episode. All of it felt pointless
Yeah
I liked all of them tbh. But season 1 was by far the best
Alijah Roath didn’t feel it was shifting away from its actual plot. After all, the plot was about Hannah
although charlie was sweet as hell he just came out of nowhere, wasn't needed
exactly, i loved winston and alex sooo much more. it just made more sense
i even completely forgot him from last season, i'm like 'yeah, don't trust that guy'
Sophie Linn winston and alex had wayy more chemistry for some reason
Sleeping Seb i know i wish they would have ended up together, i love charlie and alex but i like winston and alex so much better
Sophie Linn i think the way charlie and alex were written out was perfect. it made more sense than having alex and winston. only because it felt like winston had no closure over what happened with monty. he still was in love with monty and i thought it was beautiful to see the closure he got at the end of the season while dancing with monty. idk it just felt better that winston ended up alone and come to terms with his love for monty
It feels like this season was written by 12 year olds. The characters were poorly written and barely likable anymore, ESPECIALLY Clay. Like are we supposed to be rooting for these characters that cover up a murder and frame someone else. No one faced any consequences for their actions. Nothing made any sense.
I didn’t have high expectations to begin with but wow. Just wow. Terrible
Yeah this season definitely did not redeem the show. Even if I were a young teen I would have felt the same.
@Ryanator no its just that they got away with it. This show isn't realistic. I don't get how people are having a hard time with them covering it up. Life isn't fair and what they did wasn't fair. That's just how it. be sometimes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This show could have ended after season 2. But no, Tyler had to go to the bathroom.
Fucking hilarious
I think is rather Monthy's fault
😭
lol I think the thing with teen dramas is that they never end until the characters graduate.
It should've ended after season one.
I loved this season. It was perfect for me. Minus Justin’s death. Losing Justin legitimately feels like I lost a close friend. It hurt and it feels like I’m grieving.
I loved it too, but they should’ve shown more Monty and Winston scenes and Monty’s home relationships. It would’ve been really interesting to see those things. And i wished Clay would have a conversation with his friends about him seeing Monty and Bryce!
@@daria-jk7ug Same, and RIGHT WE NEEDED MORE WONTY i'm so mad
I could not get on board with this season at all. Clay was very annoying this season, and the whole Winston and football team story was soooo dumb and annoying.
I wasn't on board with Winston since his character was introduced. Forcefully made to do a sexual act, then severely assulted, but you still go back and sleep with Monty....but then becomes super obsessed with someone he met twice and the first time you met you were beat to all hell. Changes schools and targets a group of friends for what???? Monty was killed in prison not because he was framed for Bryce but because of the actual crime he committed, sexual assault. So the whole football team particularly Diego being THAT invested was weird. Im glad Montys ghost even told him he didn't know him lol, so dumb. But then Winston also loves Alex?? They were talking for like 2 weeks. They took Clay having psychological problems too far it was over the top. And i was so sick of everyone seeing ghosts 🙄
@Ryanator Exactly!! Lol dude was missing time and doing stuff without knowing. Thats so dangerous...yet he tells no one and suffers no consequences. We was literally grinding an axe outside of a cabin of students for crying out loud 🤦🏽♂️
@@fg4462 Students who were worried about him at that
Idiot
Your whole part about Winston; I completely agree. I've been saying this since the last episode of season 3. I just honestly couldn't like his character and the whole charade of getting justice for Monty after all the horrible things he did to people especially Tyler. Then Diego and the team just proves how idiotic they are with following along with Winston.
Big facts to everything you said! And don’t even get me started on that car accident! The heck was that?!?
My major problem with this season is the fact that While Winston was investigating monty, literally no one said out loud that Monty was an awful person. NO ONE, not even tyler. Which makes no sense. Everyone of the jocks are acting like Monty was a saint. I get that he was your friend but trying to clear monty's name because you think he didnt kill another one of their friends who was also a horrible person . Winston should have learned about all the horrible things monty did, but when he confronted tyler and alex, they both didnt say shit, which only makes winston feel as if monty was a good guy. The jocks go around mentally torturing clay and nothing comes of it. WInston saying he loved Monty was so god damn stupid.. I know they are kids but who the hell tries to get justice for someone who beat you senseless and only met for 2 times. I will never get over the idea that the writers wanted us to feel something for monty by pulling the gay card, they did the same with alex. being a closited gay maked one angry but not in the way Monty acted. and his relationship with Winston was very very toxic and it shows a gays in a negative light.
Winston's motivation for wanting revenge lacked credibility. I tought that they would show flashback explaining why Winston cared that much about Monty, but we are apparently supposed to believe that Winston was in love with a guy that beat him up and raped an other guy just because he had sex with him twice ?
@@jean-philippepoirier3552 You have managed to say what I wanted to say in way less words. Thanks man.
Jean-philippe Poirier i was wondering if we were going to get flashbacks too.
I know! Why was Monty so revered? He beat Winston's face in. Bryce actually bribed him to keep him quiet. Then he went back to Monty and falls in love?
Monty and two of his buddies sexual assault on Tyler was horrifying. He was bleeding internally. That was another thing-he needed to go to ER to be treated and didn't.
Then Monty became someone both some fans and the show runner felt was secretly wonderful. That the viewers should feel bad that he was killed. A one night stand and everything is just wonderful?
Plus, Clay running an axe across the door to scare the group. It just was there and nothing came of it.
Justin's descent into being terminally ill was well handled for the most part. The actors involved did a terrific job.
Yet, Justin developed lesions and the rest of it within what seemed to be a week. Plus, did the whole school visit the hospital? I would think that would be not very realistic.
@@shsharding44 Season 3 tried to humanize Bryce and show why even if he did all those bad things, his death was still a tragedy.
Season 4 did the same thing with Monty... but without showing any of it. We are told that he was a good friend and we see that Winston was in love with him, but we don't see anything that show why we should feel bad that Monty died. We are just told that it's tragic and that we should feel bad about it. Even the fact that his father was a monster is not brought back at all despite his sister being an important character this season.
I was sobbing like a baby. R.I.P Justin. He was my favourite character 😭😭
same
i was like 'i'm happy as long as justin ends up happy'
i guess he did. He had parents who loved him, friends who cared about him, and a brother who was always there for him
that's more than a lot of us get
Such a sad moment!
at some point of this series i hated justin...but i also cried
Me too 😩💔
Should've ended with Hannah and Clay dancing to their song
The night we met
nik h "their song" lmao yes that is how that song will be remembered forever
I thought she was gonna show up during prom lol
i was surprised that _the night we met_ didn't make an appearance, but i also get why they didn't
Agreed
Justin had the best character on any Netflix show I've seen. Deserved a better ending
Clay and Justin got so close, a real loving brotherly relationship. Justin was family (adopted) and he was the closest to Clay so Justin completely understood/got Clay, which Clay would have needed his support to get past all the high school drama, as they moved on in life. Clay and Tony are close but, Tony has a family. Clay and his parents WERE Justin's family, and since neither had siblings it would have been nice if they could have had each other in their future as adults.
This whole season is basically Clay going insane 😂😂
deadass💀💀i feel like some of the shit he did was glossed over. like he left zach for dead ?¿?¿¿ after crashing his car ?¿?? and that was barely talked about ??¿?¿?
So annoyed at him the whole season. So over the top crazy
Gonna be real, i loved this season for how absolutely shit it was. It just made me laugh everytime i was confused or just getting annoyed.
I laughed at the so-called scary moments. Like Bryce opening his mouth with all the bugs coming out. The horror bits were cheesy lol
Samee i laughed sm at the wrong moments 😭
I got bored quite often and zoned out. Then I'd wonder if I missed something important or the show just stopped making sense.
Lmao then everyone became gay lol
I mentally abused the characters and writers throughout the show. It was so so bad
The show has ended the way I’ve always wanted it to, with clay and tony driving off in the mustang towards their futures, no longer having to keep secrets. Now please god no more seasons 😂
Yessir, that was a perfect ending.
The perfect way for the show to finish!
Ryanator didn’t they permanently close the case?
I heard they were gonna work on a spin off series. But ya know, it’s just a rumor 😂
I just wish they would have exchange some words or give a weak smile or something . I felt like we didn’t get enough of their friendship
My ranking of the seasons would definitely go 1 4 2 3
That is a very nteresting ranking!
that’s my ranking too
Perfect.
Same
Nah season 3 was way better than season 2. Season 2 didn't really have a story
Instead of the trigger warning at the beginning of each episode they should put: WARNING YOU MAY WASTE AN HOUR YOU CANT GET BACK. it was really bad.
@sophie it was genuinely very terrible. Even the sad death scene couldn't help it even if it was an honest tear jerker because right after it went back to this show that did nothing but drag on.
I watched the first 7 episodes. Then I just jumped to the end so I wouldn’t waste another unnecessary 2 hours. I skipped through most of the final episode. Season was completely horrible.
Yeah this season was horrible wtf do I just watch
MrMicrophone they ran out of ideas after season 2.
it was pretty shit. i hate-binge-watched the whole thing while i worked and it was fucking ridiculous at times. it's almost offensive how they think teenagers act lmao i still cried a lot over justin but jesus what a shitshow
It bothers me that Clay’s three-second stand with the policeman’s daughter didn’t go anywhere. They could have done more with that because she was obviously targeting him.
Also, WHY do characters ALWAYS pick up the supposed murder weapon????? If I was surrounded by a pool of what I thought was blood and there was a bloody knife sitting in the middle of it, common sense would be to get out of there! He knowingly picked it up anyway 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️ WHHYYYYY???
Im dead at 3 second stand. Then he had the nerve to ask her if she finished🥴
Right? There's just *so* much stuff that happens this season that's completely irrelevant, unnecessary or unresolved. What the hell was the point of (was her name Vanessa? I can't remember) having this encounter with Clay and, as you said, *clearly* targeted him, just go absolutely nowhere. What was the point of that? Why'd they single her out as the daughter of an ongoing cop character? Why not just make some random girl at the party who wanted some Clay action?
Also, in fairness to Clay, he's never had sex before. It was dumb to ask if she finished but come on, it's his first time. The fact that he asked her though was kind of funny.
The only good part in this season was the school shooter drill. I actually felt concerned and like I was in the moment, the rest sucked and made no sense. Also Winstons character was so annoying and not needed.
Winston's storyline was really underdeveloped. He was there as a black cloud for the group, to keep them scared that he could expose their coverup of the murder, but we didn't see enough of him nor did the story go anywhere.
The school shooter drill was the weakest episode in my opinion. I was actually enjoying it when I thought it was a real school shooting, but when they revealed it was just a drill, it pissed me off so much. Not only was it completely unrealistic, but half of the characters seemed to brush it off like it was fine, even though they'd been put through unbelievable stress and trauma for no reason.
@Russell Jackson
I actually think that it was realistic.
@@Snoppapa no way in hell would they bring armed men in tactical gear into the school firing blank rounds for a drill. That kind of thing could easily result in legitimate PTSD and mentally scar kids for life. It would be ethically inexcusable and would cause a nationwide scandal when it inevitably made it to the news and social media. The head teacher might even go to jail.
Russell Jackson Actually, there have been a couple of highschools in the news for firing blanks during shooter drills. It’s really traumatic for the students
The ending should have been clay waking up and realising that everything in the show was a dream, and he has time to save Hannah I think that woulda saved the show
A dream? Omg that's terrible lol
Damn lol
Prince Siddiq Why? It shows it’s never too late to help someone for me that woulda been great
Lol that would make the whole show meaningless. Actions have consequences and the shows main point is to show how Hannah's one action effected everyone's lives.
Come on... It's time to grow if you are more than 18. 😒
Honestly, Clay and the lack of consequences ruined this season for me. A lot of the characters actually improved, like Ani and Alex, and Zach and Justin were great as usual. But Clay, commiting all these crimes and not getting in trouble was too much (also what shitty moral compasses).
He was an even bigger dick than before; what he did to Zach, getting down on Justin for getting sober, being smug. I haven't been able to enjoy the show properly because of him for a long time.
Exactly! I loved Ani this season! I really wish there was more of her! Ani, Jessica and Justin were the characters that give me the strength to binge-watch Season 4.
T Mitch Period! And the way he treated Ani was sickening to watch! All the things he put her through, how he blew her off every single chance he got, how he would yell at her when she was just looking out for him and told her he never loved her at PROM!! 😪 Ani deserves SOOOOO MUCH BETTER 💔
Then he meets Heidi who is especially a COPY of Ani (smart and into that Alien Robot Space thing) except she hasn’t seen Clay for who he is yet... 🙄
Cried at the end
Everybody forgets about Alex killing Bryce still messed up
Clay is a crazy I knew from the begging he was going to be the antagonist of the story
A lot of plot holes
Certain characters weren't needed for the series to end they were just a waste
Horrible ending I was left feeling something was missing
Solid 7/10 They could do better
Nobody cares
Same think the season sucked.
Solid 7 cuz of Hannah 😂
The last two seasons shouldnt have happened, clay is annoying and probably the most unlikable main character on any show ever, until the last third of the season, it dragged was unnecessarily long and unrealistic and they shoved a billion storylines in the season for the sake of it, police brutality, racism, sexual violence, substance abuse, mental health, a riot, a school shooting lockdown and a HIV storyline that was factually incorrect. The actors weren’t the problem it was the writing and the fact they wanted to milk a very popular show for all the money they could even though it should have ended after season two at the latest.
This season was awful and at times downright silly. Seasons 1-3 at least attempted to keep things somewhat realistic and logical
True, this season was full on psycho
Eh season 3 was annoying because Ani being really nosey and everyone unrealistically opened up to her.. at least in this season she seemed to mind her business more lol
What wasn’t realistic in this season? Season 3 was garbage btw
this show has been my favorite since season 1. i love how dark it is. and it’s attention to detail with characters. i love how we slowly watch every character slowly go deep into a dark hole, and come back out. i love all characters. and like i said. the dark tone is so amazing. the only thing i do not like is how the shows tone changed so much from season one. i understand why, but i like the original feel. but in all. this show a massive masterpiece, and i’ll always love and remember it. i’ll always remember the first time watching. (i wish Hannah and the other original characters were brought up more in the last 2 seasons)
and my favorite has to be tony. though i liked him more in season one than ANY other season
Same. :)
They had a almost complete ending in episode 9 with the kids dancing into the night with all problems basically tied off, then they give the best built character hiv and aids and kill him off all in one episode for “shock value” imo they ducked the ending and made it not feel like an ending
My review: the writers want us all to have depression and they all succeed. Bravo.
I think that, in the last scene of season 4, Tony and Clay feel like they have no more things to say. The silence between them is because they have no more things in common and nothing to talk about, except for all the things they've been through.
I love that scene because it’s a nod to s1 ep1 before clay found the tapes. Before things became crazy
Agree. Most of this show is shit, but that was a solid ending. Appreciated no music backing, just the engine pushing them forward into the future. Everytime Tony and Clay get together in the Mustang, shit goes bad. Finally, there was nothing to say.
I’m sorry I had to struggle to watch this season. After I heard Justin dies in the end I had the drive to finish
can someone tell what happened with Sherri and Marcus?
Marcus graduated because he was older than the others. According to a real-life response from the email address Clay gave to Heidi, Sherri left Liberty after season 1 (or 2? can't remember) and moved down south.
the uneven representation is the tea
@@harambae7014 I see but did Marcus get the university he wanted despite his ruined reputation in season 2? And did Sherri still get the university she wanted despite being a criminal and/or still become successful?
@@123dan165 don't think either of those questions have been answered sadly.
@@harambae7014 I see no worries thank you.
Clay was INSANE this season, he deserves an award. His back must be sore from carrying the show.
In season 1 Clay would split his head open every time he fell off his bike, yet he drives a car off a cliff and it spins a good few times and that he walks away from it without a scratch?????
Tbh watching Justin collapse and die in the hospital with Clay holding his hand hurt more than watching Hannah slit her wrists in the Bath Tub
I landed there too late and never saw that Hannah scene... Netflix beat me to the punch.
i actually really like this season. sure it has it's faults but so do all their seasons, some repercussions for people's actions would have been nice rather than everything just being brushed under the carpet would have been better. everybody seems to get away with everything without punishment which was a little annoying and should definitely of had a bit more from Alex suffering with his guilt of murdering Bryce.
i also, unlike most people, don't think Justin's death was that surprising. the nurse even said he probably got HIV from being on the streets so it wasn't just months and looking back at other seasons you can see moments where something was up. maybe they should have had him diagnosed a couple seasons back and had a storyline around that so his death made a little more sense to people? definitely absolutely heartbreaking the way he died but unfortunately not too surprising
all in all a few flat moments and moments that didn't make sense but a pretty great send off of this show
@@JBurnz001 Didn't she say that Justin always used protection?
@Ryanator i honestly don't know if anybody but Zach even knew Clay was driving or if he was even there at all. Zach got thrown out of the veichle so it would have been unclear if he was driving or not, he may have been pissed at Clay but not said anything and just excepted responsibility for the damage. do agree though something should have been either said more bout it to explain why there was no backlash from it or Clay should have got in some shit over it. Clay running around doing stupid shit all the time and never facing consequences was my biggest complaint about this season
Ya I think this season was the saddest and it was pretty good
I also really liked this season!
don't @ me but I'm willing to say that Justin's death was sadder than Hannahs
StillFree98 __ facts
It's a tough one!
Thats because you spent more time with his character. Years
It was for sure!
Was waiting for this video so I could comment on the season. All in all, I thought it was pretty solid, I found that I enjoyed binging this one a lot more than the previous seasons and the story rounded itself off very well. Dylan Minnette was absolutely incredible with his portrayal of clay Jensen this season in my opinion. The character redemption of Justin was so amazing to see and with how it ended was crushing. Charlie was arguably one of the more likeable characters in the series with no solid reason to hate the guy. Really impressed with this one, potentially my favourite season of the show. And seeing Tyler happy with estella was also great I think, Tyler really did deserve something good to happen to him
Dylan (Clay) is an amazing actor, he really brought the character to life.
Totally agree!
The most awkward part was when Clay lost his virginity to the sheriffs daughter 🤦♂️
Hahaha but on a serious point, it was never brought up again. Surely after that she should’ve had a bit more of a say in the series. On the other hand was proud of my boy Clay
Didn’t he already lose it to his ex girlfriend with the tattoos in season 2
@@rmtx5640 EXACTLYYYY, i thought the same thing!. This show is chaotic
Josh Porter did he even get it in? That scene was over quick!
That was hilarious 😂
I truly believe this was the second best season behind the first, simply because I was so invested in these characters and no other season brought me on a ride like this one
same same same
Yes! Finally someone likes it!
This season gave me more than 13 reasons to jump off several skyscrapers. The cinematography was great, the actors are decent, and the writing is FUCKING ABYSMAL. Four different people have unacknowledged schizophrenia, and everybody abuses guns but nobody gets in trouble for it. I was laughing my ass of for most of the season, and the Justin death was the only emotional moment for me.
This whole season didn’t need to happen. Like why did Justin have to die 😭😭😭 it was just so confusing! Did they really need this to happen to bring them together? Maybe idk.
it was an 'ending' season and i think more shows should have something like that
I think season 2 and 3 didn't need to happend. But because they exist, this last season was nesesary.
Hannah's death brought them together. I hate that Justin died. I hate that Hannah died, but Justin was getting better and wanted to live
knifins true! Season three was pandering to the audience in my opinion at that point and just went all wonky.
One thing that really bothered me as Justin got sick was the total indifference towards his well-being by his adopted “family.” We could see the lesion on his neck, but why the hell didn’t Clay or his parents wonder what-the-hell was going on? If my son had lesions on his body, and I could see one of them, I would sure as hell would get him checked out by a doctor. Massive fail by Clay and his parents.
I’m sorry but don’t defend this stupid show that basically makes it seem like you can either get away with everything in high school or no one will care what you do and no one can help you
I totally agree. This one was a mess.. Honestly they all were after season one. I was so angry when I watched this one because I disliked all the characters at the end for the choices they made and the fact there were no repercussions for ANYTHING they did. Like wtf is that teaching kids?
It’s just a show.
“Let the dead bury the dead” Great message for teenagers lol, commit murder and dump the blame on someone else. Hopefully they’ll die in jail and you can learn to “love yourself”
mr mwm again just a show , calm down 💀
Raley Vidal season 1 and 2 were good but 3 and 4 were trash
I LOATHE ALEX WITH SUCH A PASSION AND IT PISSES ME OFF THAT HE FELT LITTLE REPERCUSSIONS FOR HIS TOXIC AND VIOLENT BEHAVIOR AND COMMITTING A LITERAL MURDER AND JUST BEING ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH. HE WAS EVEN A LITTLE SHIT IN RELATIONSHIP WITH CHARLIE AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ACT LIKE ITS SO CUTE. I ALSO DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WINSTON WAS 'IN LOVE'(!?) WITH HIM. HE HAS THE PERSONALITY OF A RANCID SLICE OF CHEESE AND IS ONLY INTERESTING BECAUSE OF HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHER CHARACTERS LIKE ZACH.
Below average season... weird edits, illogical plot twists , perfunctory drama, no real clear direction
Yes! I am so confused how anyone is saying this is good. So much random shit happened, then they just moved on. None of it made sense.
It was the worst :(
People who like this show are obviously being paid somehow to say it’s good. There is no way a sane person could like this train wreck of a season. Clay should’ve been arrested several times.
I agree it was sad this is what they came up with. It went in every direction and nothing connected or made sense. Should’ve ended last season
@@CezaMVO yea wtf was that scene with the serial killer and the axe?? they never talked about it again
Clay’s and Justin’s Brother like relationship was definitely the best part of This Season
Yes that was great to see!
Ani was much much more likable this season!
For some weird reason, I cant get over the fact justin died... he was doing so good for so long... it's very heart breaking and unnerving.
I will always love this show no matter how many flaws it had...it’s been there for me and I’m grateful for that
As a guy who has suffered from anxiety..... The portrayal of clay was very accurate. May be a little over the top at some point but as a whole it was perfect
I agree it was very very accurate
Umm what about Charlie his my favourite character
Campfire cookie?
Hes toooo gay i couldnt stand it.
@@1Luv87 Too gay? You haven't met Ryan Sharper lol
Chandni Thakker thats kind of homophobic
Chandni Thakker girl what?
Dylan and Brandon deserve loads of awards for their performances this season!
Clay talking to the "ghosts" of Bryce, Monty and Justin actually worked in an interesting way that didn't feel forced or just to push the plot
Totally agree!
The only thing I didn’t like was that Alex didn’t see Bryce even tho Alex killed him and not clay and clay wasn’t even there but I digress
Michael Hurtado he saw him in the pool but not much after.
Didnt work at all. Was boring and annoying.
It’s also a great way to see those actors of characters who are dead bc they’re so amazing
Finally someone who appreciates the ending as much as I do
the ending was the exact same as bojack horseman’s lmao
Yo actually tho
I noticed that too lmao
I cried so much when clay reads Justin essay "he's my brother" It's so heartbreaking
Can someone explain to me why Clay would graffiti the school in the first place? It’s like he almost wants to get locked up in jail. In season 3, the main characters get away with framing an innocent pier but then Clay graffitis the school? Why would you reopen a murder case in which you played a vital role in?
AUGmatt13 clay felt really guilty about framing monty, he had a different side to him that does illegal/wrong things out of the guilt he was dealing with. clay probably just had a moment when that other side of him kicked in, he graffitied the school and then couldn’t remember any of it. that’s the impression i got anyway. maybe clay just wanted the truth to come out, because he was tired of keeping everything a secret and it obviously had a very negative effect on his mental health.
Excellent takes. In retrospect, it would have been easy to predict Justin’s death after his relapse in a prior episode, as I don’t believe the series would have concluded with him alive, yet still addicted to drugs. He was either going to sober up completely or succumb to it... realistic or not, I just don’t think the show would’ve left him alive without resolving it in some way.
Dylan’s acting this season was 10/10.
11/10
BrainPilot correct lol
Clay was one of the few guys that truly cared about Hannah (S1), he took care of Justin, helped him recover from drugs and offered him a home and a family (S2), he was also the guy who helped Tyler and was a big part of his healing process (S3). He wanted to be a hero and actually became one. I guess on S4 he couldn't do it anymore, and i can imagine how exhausted he felt for keeping all those secrets. I didn't enjoy him on this season and wanted to tell him to stfu several times but watching him as Justin's BROTHER on his last days made me remember why I liked his character. Sorry for my english, it's not my mother language.
Can I just say that all the main cast are REALLY good at acting. RIP Justin he deserved better. I’m sorry but clay needed a lot more psychological help. He seemed borderline schizophrenic and faced so much psychological trauma.
Seriously!!!!! Like how was he allowed to go AWAY to college???
bells _in_your_head he was defo a danger to himself and others. After escaping the mental institution he was never sent back because apparently everything was alright again. Which it defo wasn’t. I know him and alex can deal w trauma in their own ways but it felt weird knowing that Alex was the one who essentially “murdered” Bryce but literally didn’t seem that bothered by it.
I’m going to keep it 💯 the show after season 2 went downhill really fast and what we got in season 4 was a dumpster fire. Season 4 was so pointless. The plot was that they could’ve gotten exposed and the truth would’ve came out and all of a sudden Winston drops it. Wtf!!!! There was no climax at all. This season was just about the final episode. They milked a season 4 just to talk about their future in the final 1 and a half hour episode.
Also...can we just acknowledge the fact that Wisnton didn't seem that in love with Alex....enough to keep this secret about draining the actual man he "loved". Just saying.....I always thought W was just using A to get some more answers.
@@bells_in_your_head I dont think he was "in love" with Alex either. They spent like 2 weeks together. And tbh he only met Monty twice so this whole clearing his name story line was dumb to begin with. W had no reason to be this hellbent on revenge. Monty wasn't even killed because of the Bryce thing he was killed in prison because of the crime he actually committed sexual assault. Even the football players were a bit much, made no sense.
A scene that i loved was Winston and Monty’s dance. Throughout the season, Winston’s eagerness to prove Monty’s innocence made me forget all the horrible things he was guilty of. I was even rooting for them/him. In that scene at the dance, Monty says ‘you fell in love with the idea of me’ which is so true. Monty would never, ever, accept himself and the idealistic love story between them wouldn’t have ever happened. We fell in love with the idea of them being happy and the show made me forget how evil he actually was.
That car crash and lack of real injuries was ridiculous. I hope kids don't watch this and think that is reality and I hope they don't take the lack of consequences throughout the show too literal.
If they have a spin-off what if someone accidentally digs up the spot where they buried the tapes 😳
Would be pointless clay leaked the tapes to everyone so everyone knows ab them
There is no other way to continue the story unless someone finds out how to expose Alex but nobody has a motive
Jonathan Colebrooke What if Winston comes back for revenge because Alex isn’t with him anymore🤔because remember Alex told him everything about bryces death....like even thoe he gave him the tape recorder he could still reach out to Montes sister and tell her the truth an maybe that would build up some hatred for Alex in her causing her to go after him an maybe even going as far as to even killing him....with the aid of Winston of course(Just a theory thoe)
Those tapes and Hannah herself basically became irrelevant to the people in the show. I can't imagine they would impact a new cast of outsiders.
They could do a spin off with Monty's sister and a new cast and plot 🤷♀️
This series hooked me from the beginning and that was it. A devoted fan was born. The acting is incredible and I loved every minute. 💥 Can’t wait to see what these actors do next. PS Dylan’s music is excellent too. 🎤🎸
the best part of this season: ALEX AND CHARLIE
periodddd
they gave Charlie a crown and called him King, we love a self aware show 😍
So Clay and Zach end up in a car accident and all of a sudden they’re okay the next episode? Okaaaay
Season 1 really exposed me to a lot of good music. I felt like the music choices in season 4 weren't as strong. I'm happy they used Beach House though!
this season was all over the damn place. they kept adding more and more drama without even addressing it in the next episode and those kids got away with WAY TOO MUCH like fighting police officers and not to mention getting away with murder.... idk the actors did a good job but they should’ve ended the show after last season
Initially I did not like this season and was quite disappointed about the amount of drama it lacked. But only at the end I realized that I looked at it from the wrong perspective. This was a season about post decisions and a solid conclusion. I think the season did what it was meant to do by being called a “final season” and 13RW will definitely be one to remember.
It sucked. They got away with murder. What’s the morality?