The other gear mentioned is the upper idler gear, the snowflake marking on the idler will only match marks on cam gear once in so many engine rotations, doesnt mean engine is out of time at all, timing is set with triangle marks on bull gear needs to mesh with mark on crank gear, another set of marks to idler gear on bull gear. cam timing is checked by measuring injector lobe travel from outer base circle to tdc compression.
Ok well I'm working on a 12.7 also and when I put the 2 triangle Mark's together the valves and piston touch(I know I'm being very gentile with it making sure I dont bend valves)valves not letting me do a full cycle what can you tell me about this
That is the plan, it will be a while before I can finish it with the holidays and the weather, I just got the pan off and still not 100% sure it is rebuildable, but have not seen a reason why not. Thanks for your comment.
I'm not saying it's easy but I'm impressed with how logical engines are designed. Everything has a purpose and there's a way to do it. I bet if you had to do another one next week you'd cut your time in half.
1/10 the time if no holidays, warm, dry weather, and a good helper to clean all the parts. Every make of engine has its advantages and its disadvantages from the other ones, a Cummins (which I have never worked on) has the camshaft inside the block, not on top like my Detroit, Cummins also has 3 heads, (2 cylinders each) which means my original problem would have been fixed in less than 2 days, not an in frame overhaul, but a good repair with a new cylinder, piston, and head. The Detroit is easier to change the cam if you need to than the Cummins, but the Cummins, you never see the cam when replacing the head or a piston, 1 man can handle the weight of the head without a lift, my head 300 lbs. I have heard that Cat is the worst to work on and by far the most expensive. I'll keep my Detroit, but not afraid of a Cummins, but no Cat.
When I bought my pickup, when I had the $ to buy a shiny new pickup, I had a choice between a Powerstroke, Duramax and Cummins. I've never owned a Dodge but i bought one 15 years ago just for the Cummins engine. No regrets here! Keep up the great series. This is better than the Sunday morning mechanics shows!
Thanks for the compliment, I wish I could have more to put up, but it is white outside and temps in the teens. I could put up a short one about cleaning a gasket surface and sharpening a scraper while I'm waiting for parts on order from the machine shop.
Its tough working out side and doing a inframe alone a lot of climbing. I think the thread size in the cam gear is 20 MM . 7/8 was pretty tight and was afraid of causing thread damage. The 20MM fit on the loose side but seem to work fine. Man the legs get tired standing on the truck like that
I sent a picture of the head damage to the machine shop and they called me back and said they have fixed worse ones and to bring it over. When I got there, they made me feel right at home, super friendly, laid back, informative, old fashioned, I didn't know about them, I told them we will be doing business. The pan is down and so is the sun. I'll find out more tomorrow.
Did you price out a used or reman head? series 60 parts of very cheap compared to Cat or Cummins. Every machine shop I ever dealt with took longer and cost more than just buying another part when I figured out my lost time and the labor for the shop.
I'm finding $2200 -$2800 with good core, Freightliner wants $2400 and probably would reject my core, the machine shop I found wants $1125 for the complete job with all new valves and milling, as for time, what can I do? I have a couple days of parts cleaning and small repairs like hoses, wiring harnesses, my License plate just fell off right here today. This will be a good time to make a tool for pulling liners if I can't just knock them out from underneath. Also this place can get me the rebuild parts for about 2/3 what Frtlnr. wants, I need to pull the pistons tomorrow and check them out and call them to order parts for next week after the holiday, so I'm down for at least 2 more weeks regardless.
I deal with HeavyTruckparts.net if I cannot source things locally which I usually can given a couple days notice, I also will buy off Ebay if needed and just use Paypal, if the part is junk I just stop the payment '' never needed to on a truck part though ''Heavy sold us a 12.7 head with valves that was new for 1200 about a year ago. I understand what you are saying about needing to do other stuff, I just didn't want to see you get screwed by a machine shop when there are other options. We never go threw dealerships for parts because the markup is so high, we only use them for parts that are dealer only.
The bull gear is 50.1, idler gear is 51.1, cam gear is 50.1 everytime the engine turns the idler looks 1 tooth off more. If it ran good timing was correct.
I like how you've done your inframe rebuild but you still need to change that bullhead gear bearing so you want blow your 60series engine up so you can get your next million miles out of your tracker truck.
The book said nothing about 1 time use on the cam bolt and the overhaul kit didn't come with a new one either. with the holidays and the bad weather and waiting on the machine shop and the parts to arrive, I had plenty of time to read the shop manual over and over while doing that job.
I found out about the timing marks when I was putting the cam back in, the idler gear has I think 1 more or 1 less tooth on it which screws up the timing marks 1 tooth every rev.
I am going by memory here but I believe head bolts are 220 ft/lbs the new cam bolt torque is 55ft/lbs plus 2 flats so 120 deg. the higher torque because some lower torque bolts allowed the cam gear to shear off the dowel pin and then valves meet pistons. not sure if you had an older official ddc book. new service bulletins come out daily so everything is online and of course you need a sign on.
Like I said, I read or heard nothing about the cam bolt being one time use not to say that I don't believe you, I do, but the engine is running fine and I did the best I could within reason with what I had to work with and had no choice but to go with it. Yes the book is old but I got 1.5 million miles out of the original motor which should have been done by the same specs I used. I know shops that do this everyday cheat a lot and know where they can get away with cutting corners, I also know the same from when I was an auto mechanic, I didn't cut any corners on this job without checking with the machine shop head machinist where I had the head done, and that was on like the glue on the cam caps, which is no threat to anything even if it did start to leak which I'm sure it won't. This was my 1st big truck engine but you know I did many engines on cars and other machines, the theory is the same and I understood everything I read in the book about it, I did have to make a couple special tools as not to buy them for a one time use. I torqued the head bolts at 200 because the book said I think 185 - 210 if I remember, I didn't torque the cam caps since the bolts are of a size I see all the time and there is no gasket crush to be concerned with just steel to steel so I guessed at what would be right for that bolt size and hand tightened those and the manifolds the same way. Please don't think I said all this to say don't bug me it's running fine, no, that's not it at all, I appreciate your knowledge and the time you spent sharing it with me, keep in touch and if I have a question about a D60 I'll contact you. If you see more of my videos please share your thoughts. Thanks, First Name, whatever your first name is.
Hello, you reference a book multiple times that seems to have assisted you in your rebuild. Are you able to provide the name of it so that we may be able to get a copy for ourselves? Thanks
I don't remember the thread size other than it is metric. You might need to take the cam bolt off and bring it to a fastener supply and match it up to get a longer one to use with your tool.
You can get shop manuals from Ebay, Amazon, and the like or just go to your dealer and ask them to print copies of the pages you need for a particular project.
At minute marker 9:34 i see you have silcone on cam cap did that application work to keep oil from seeping out? Im asking this because my series 60 leak a little from that location... Im planning on doing a valve cover gasket job to stop oil leak do you think i would have to go as far as changing the diamond seal which is beyond my level of tools and equipment
I put on a valve cover gasket in this video at the 15:30 but do not click on the number in this reply, it will take you back to the camshaft video, click on this link and go to 15:30 th-cam.com/video/IrcDGSjKQdQ/w-d-xo.html also I did the oil pan in this video th-cam.com/video/VoPLPSIDPCk/w-d-xo.html
Hey Gordon what kit did the cam gear bolt come in? did you ever find out what size is used to pull out the hub? Currently working on my 12.7 detroit and having a hard time finding the right bolt
Nevermind figured it out. I can confirm that the tread is indeed metric and not standard. After hours of research, i found out that there are two different size bolts for "old" style and "new" style cam gear hubs. If I'm not mistaken one is 22mm and the other "new" one is 24mm. The one i have turned out to be the 24. The exact spec and thread pitch is M24 x 2.00 if anyone else needs to know. Unfortunately i don’t know the thread pitch of the 22mm bolt
Do you know the bolt size to remove the cam gear? I am doing the same job right now and am at this point. My manual says if you do it right you shouldn’t have to worry about timing at all because you only have to pull the cam gear forward 1/4 inch and the gears will stay meshed. Does this sound like what you ran into?
I don't remember the bolt size, but I do know all the bolts are metric. You should be able to move the gear without falling out of time but you need a tool to hold the gear in place to loosen the cam bolt, it is very tight and I don't think it's a good idea to use an impact on those gear teeth.
Hey Gordon, on a rebuild like this, did you use the same camshaft and rockers or replace? I njoy you videos and not experienced on truck motors, just cars. I would think with the miles on the engine many components need to be replaced.
I used everything outside the block again, even the oil pump. I was laid off and in debt when this happened and had to do the minimal work that I could borrow enough to pay for. The cam and rocker arms were in good shape. Thanks for watching and subbing.
Gordon Robertson THANKS for the reply. I have been there and done that before. Thanks for your attention to detail on ALL your videos....I also hve my CDL and drive. My dad worked for Precoat here in Chicago, even prior to Precoat under the name of Litho-Strip.
I don't see why not, but you won't have the weight of the shaft opening up a gap for the bearing to go in like on the crank so you might need to wedge a big screwdriver under the shaft to lift it up a bit.
I'll have to do another video on that, I don't remember what those sizes are off hand, but I was planning to do that anyway. Also when you message me, don't use a reply from an older post because I have to search down a long list of messages to find yours, it's better to start a new comment, then it will be on top, not your fault, it's TH-cam's fault because I can't reply from another reply unless I'm on the comments only page.
They're too much trouble for close up because I can't tell where the camera is aimed and they use about 5 times more digital space at 1/2 the video quality and a few more small problems, the next video (part 5) has the glasses in it when I pulled the head off with the excavator.
Respect to this man who take him time and record all this process. I'm watching it doing rebuild on minec12.7.
Thank you, sir for what you did.
I could watch things like this forever.
Thanks for watching.
ermano la marca de la leba ba con un cero ocon un escudo
The other gear mentioned is the upper idler gear, the snowflake marking on the idler will only match marks on cam gear once in so many engine rotations, doesnt mean engine is out of time at all, timing is set with triangle marks on bull gear needs to mesh with mark on crank gear, another set of marks to idler gear on bull gear. cam timing is checked by measuring injector lobe travel from outer base circle to tdc compression.
Ok well I'm working on a 12.7 also and when I put the 2 triangle Mark's together the valves and piston touch(I know I'm being very gentile with it making sure I dont bend valves)valves not letting me do a full cycle what can you tell me about this
I love to watch vids like this. I've rebuilt many a car engine, but never a diesel....I sure hope you continue to vid the rest of it.
Thanks :)
That is the plan, it will be a while before I can finish it with the holidays and the weather, I just got the pan off and still not 100% sure it is rebuildable, but have not seen a reason why not. Thanks for your comment.
I'm not saying it's easy but I'm impressed with how logical engines are designed. Everything has a purpose and there's a way to do it. I bet if you had to do another one next week you'd cut your time in half.
1/10 the time if no holidays, warm, dry weather, and a good helper to clean all the parts. Every make of engine has its advantages and its disadvantages from the other ones, a Cummins (which I have never worked on) has the camshaft inside the block, not on top like my Detroit, Cummins also has 3 heads, (2 cylinders each) which means my original problem would have been fixed in less than 2 days, not an in frame overhaul, but a good repair with a new cylinder, piston, and head. The Detroit is easier to change the cam if you need to than the Cummins, but the Cummins, you never see the cam when replacing the head or a piston, 1 man can handle the weight of the head without a lift, my head 300 lbs. I have heard that Cat is the worst to work on and by far the most expensive. I'll keep my Detroit, but not afraid of a Cummins, but no Cat.
When I bought my pickup, when I had the $ to buy a shiny new pickup, I had a choice between a Powerstroke, Duramax and Cummins. I've never owned a Dodge but i bought one 15 years ago just for the Cummins engine. No regrets here!
Keep up the great series. This is better than the Sunday morning mechanics shows!
I've heard good things about the Dodge Cummins but don't personally know anything about it, never even seen it up close,
Thanks for the compliment, I wish I could have more to put up, but it is white outside and temps in the teens. I could put up a short one about cleaning a gasket surface and sharpening a scraper while I'm waiting for parts on order from the machine shop.
Teens, that's rough. Do you wait for the temp to go up or rough it? I'd have a hard time working on detailed stuff like that at those temperatures.
If you had 100$ for every fella you helped overhaul on TH-cam you would be a millionaire
Its tough working out side and doing a inframe alone a lot of climbing. I think the thread size in the cam gear is 20 MM . 7/8 was pretty tight and was afraid of causing thread damage. The 20MM fit on the loose side but seem to work fine. Man the legs get tired standing on the truck like that
All the bolts are metric except the thread holes in one bracket above the air compressor has 2 holes 7/16-14 thread.
Necessity is the mother of invention! Keep up the good work.
I sent a picture of the head damage to the machine shop and they called me back and said they have fixed worse ones and to bring it over. When I got there, they made me feel right at home, super friendly, laid back, informative, old fashioned, I didn't know about them, I told them we will be doing business. The pan is down and so is the sun. I'll find out more tomorrow.
Did you price out a used or reman head? series 60 parts of very cheap compared to Cat or Cummins. Every machine shop I ever dealt with took longer and cost more than just buying another part when I figured out my lost time and the labor for the shop.
I'm finding $2200 -$2800 with good core, Freightliner wants $2400 and probably would reject my core, the machine shop I found wants $1125 for the complete job with all new valves and milling, as for time, what can I do? I have a couple days of parts cleaning and small repairs like hoses, wiring harnesses, my License plate just fell off right here today. This will be a good time to make a tool for pulling liners if I can't just knock them out from underneath. Also this place can get me the rebuild parts for about 2/3 what Frtlnr. wants, I need to pull the pistons tomorrow and check them out and call them to order parts for next week after the holiday, so I'm down for at least 2 more weeks regardless.
I deal with HeavyTruckparts.net if I cannot source things locally which I usually can given a couple days notice, I also will buy off Ebay if needed and just use Paypal, if the part is junk I just stop the payment '' never needed to on a truck part though ''Heavy sold us a 12.7 head with valves that was new for 1200 about a year ago. I understand what you are saying about needing to do other stuff, I just didn't want to see you get screwed by a machine shop when there are other options. We never go threw dealerships for parts because the markup is so high, we only use them for parts that are dealer only.
Thanks, I'll look into that site, I don't know why they didn't show up during my search last week. What is your job?
The bull gear is 50.1, idler gear is 51.1, cam gear is 50.1 everytime the engine turns the idler looks 1 tooth off more. If it ran good timing was correct.
I like how you've done your inframe rebuild but you still need to change that bullhead gear bearing so you want blow your 60series engine up so you can get your next million miles out of your tracker truck.
would you like to do my truck, i would pay you, and even help you.. love my old truck and would like to rebuild it. your good at this.
the s60 has hunting timing marks they align once every 186 revolutions. that big cam gear bolt is one time use.
The book said nothing about 1 time use on the cam bolt and the overhaul kit didn't come with a new one either. with the holidays and the bad weather and waiting on the machine shop and the parts to arrive, I had plenty of time to read the shop manual over and over while doing that job.
I found out about the timing marks when I was putting the cam back in, the idler gear has I think 1 more or 1 less tooth on it which screws up the timing marks 1 tooth every rev.
I am going by memory here but I believe head bolts are 220 ft/lbs the new cam bolt torque is 55ft/lbs plus 2 flats so 120 deg. the higher torque because some lower torque bolts allowed the cam gear to shear off the dowel pin and then valves meet pistons. not sure if you had an older official ddc book. new service bulletins come out daily so everything is online and of course you need a sign on.
Like I said, I read or heard nothing about the cam bolt being one time use not to say that I don't believe you, I do, but the engine is running fine and I did the best I could within reason with what I had to work with and had no choice but to go with it. Yes the book is old but I got 1.5 million miles out of the original motor which should have been done by the same specs I used. I know shops that do this everyday cheat a lot and know where they can get away with cutting corners, I also know the same from when I was an auto mechanic, I didn't cut any corners on this job without checking with the machine shop head machinist where I had the head done, and that was on like the glue on the cam caps, which is no threat to anything even if it did start to leak which I'm sure it won't. This was my 1st big truck engine but you know I did many engines on cars and other machines, the theory is the same and I understood everything I read in the book about it, I did have to make a couple special tools as not to buy them for a one time use. I torqued the head bolts at 200 because the book said I think 185 - 210 if I remember, I didn't torque the cam caps since the bolts are of a size I see all the time and there is no gasket crush to be concerned with just steel to steel so I guessed at what would be right for that bolt size and hand tightened those and the manifolds the same way. Please don't think I said all this to say don't bug me it's running fine, no, that's not it at all, I appreciate your knowledge and the time you spent sharing it with me, keep in touch and if I have a question about a D60 I'll contact you. If you see more of my videos please share your thoughts. Thanks, First Name, whatever your first name is.
Can you explain the hunting tooth markings and how to make the 186 revolutions like you said here I dont think they understood what you where saying
Sir where is the head machine I live in St Louis Missouri
cheers ..great video ...
Thank you Sir.
Hello, you reference a book multiple times that seems to have assisted you in your rebuild. Are you able to provide the name of it so that we may be able to get a copy for ourselves?
Thanks
Hi Robertson thyou for your information I made the home tool and do you know what size is the bolt to pull the pulley so I can go to buy it thyou
I don't remember the thread size other than it is metric. You might need to take the cam bolt off and bring it to a fastener supply and match it up to get a longer one to use with your tool.
Amigo porq le pasa agua al cartel del aceite es del cerie 60 12 .7
Hey Gordon, where can a find a book to study up on directions for these repairs on diesel engine rebuilds. Awesome Video btw
You can get shop manuals from Ebay, Amazon, and the like or just go to your dealer and ask them to print copies of the pages you need for a particular project.
At minute marker 9:34 i see you have silcone on cam cap did that application work to keep oil from seeping out? Im asking this because my series 60 leak a little from that location... Im planning on doing a valve cover gasket job to stop oil leak do you think i would have to go as far as changing the diamond seal which is beyond my level of tools and equipment
I put on a valve cover gasket in this video at the 15:30 but do not click on the number in this reply, it will take you back to the camshaft video, click on this link and go to 15:30 th-cam.com/video/IrcDGSjKQdQ/w-d-xo.html also I did the oil pan in this video th-cam.com/video/VoPLPSIDPCk/w-d-xo.html
Hey Gordon what kit did the cam gear bolt come in? did you ever find out what size is used to pull out the hub? Currently working on my 12.7 detroit and having a hard time finding the right bolt
Nevermind figured it out. I can confirm that the tread is indeed metric and not standard. After hours of research, i found out that there are two different size bolts for "old" style and "new" style cam gear hubs. If I'm not mistaken one is 22mm and the other "new" one is 24mm. The one i have turned out to be the 24. The exact spec and thread pitch is M24 x 2.00 if anyone else needs to know. Unfortunately i don’t know the thread pitch of the 22mm bolt
Do you know the bolt size to remove the cam gear? I am doing the same job right now and am at this point. My manual says if you do it right you shouldn’t have to worry about timing at all because you only have to pull the cam gear forward 1/4 inch and the gears will stay meshed. Does this sound like what you ran into?
I don't remember the bolt size, but I do know all the bolts are metric. You should be able to move the gear without falling out of time but you need a tool to hold the gear in place to loosen the cam bolt, it is very tight and I don't think it's a good idea to use an impact on those gear teeth.
Hey Gordon, on a rebuild like this, did you use the same camshaft and rockers or replace? I njoy you videos and not experienced on truck motors, just cars. I would think with the miles on the engine many components need to be replaced.
I used everything outside the block again, even the oil pump. I was laid off and in debt when this happened and had to do the minimal work that I could borrow enough to pay for. The cam and rocker arms were in good shape. Thanks for watching and subbing.
Gordon Robertson
THANKS for the reply. I have been there and done that before. Thanks for your attention to detail on ALL your videos....I also hve my CDL and drive. My dad worked for Precoat here in Chicago, even prior to Precoat under the name of Litho-Strip.
Where do you find the rebuild manual 🤔
I got mine on ebay but you can get one from any dealer
@@57bagre which seller did you use
👍💪
@ 11:25 that blue diamond seal, can it be replaced without having to pull the head?
Pull the head or the front cover. Mine is pouring oil from there
@@Street_Tractor59 okay thanks.
Can you roll in new cam bearings or does camshaft have to come out?
I don't see why not, but you won't have the weight of the shaft opening up a gap for the bearing to go in like on the crank so you might need to wedge a big screwdriver under the shaft to lift it up a bit.
SUPER!!!!!!
Thank You Sir, and thank You for subscribing.
Gordon Robertson good afternoon can you tell me what size of Bolt you use for your cam gear puller. I would like to make me one
I'll have to do another video on that, I don't remember what those sizes are off hand, but I was planning to do that anyway. Also when you message me, don't use a reply from an older post because I have to search down a long list of messages to find yours, it's better to start a new comment, then it will be on top, not your fault, it's TH-cam's fault because I can't reply from another reply unless I'm on the comments only page.
megusta.qieeromasprogramasdmecanica.grasias.
what happened to your camera glasses?
They're too much trouble for close up because I can't tell where the camera is aimed and they use about 5 times more digital space at 1/2 the video quality and a few more small problems, the next video (part 5) has the glasses in it when I pulled the head off with the excavator.