It's Getting Harder to Play Wargames in Stores
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 เม.ย. 2024
- Game stores have always been a great place to play wargames - a public space for everyone. It's getting harder to play games at stores now.
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6:45 - Main takeaway - break in to peoples houses until you find a new gaming buddy
Be sure to bring snacks. The dog will show you where the silver and fine china is until you try leaving. There is no end to tummy rubs.
I'm so happy someone else thought the same thing I did with that comment.
If you don't see any miniatures leave a note telling people to get better hobbies :P
@@horationoseblower6336 This is why you take the dog with you. Win-win.
Rofl, I came to the comments section to remark on that statement and I'm glad you already did. Crowbar in one hand, fistful of minis in the other!
I am a Blood Bowl player, the wargaming club I'm a part of is almost 100% WH40k. We have a weekly night at one of the local stores, I show up every week, and most weeks I'm stilling there with My stuff and no one to play against. But I've had people come up and ask questions while watching the 8 other tables of 40k, and I'm determined to KEEP SHOWING UP in the hopes that I can get more of them interested in BB so that We can on our MONTHLY saturdays have more than just 40k being played.
Have you thought about a starter league? Get talking to folks who have expressed interest that u will run a starter league geared towards learning the game. Seen that work in a similar situation multiple times...if ppl see ur willing to take on the role of organiser then they will more likely respond positively...lets face it, everyone prefers someone else do the organising 🙂
Blood bowl is one of my top GW games. I can't say favourite as Necromunda could be number 1.
See how the organisers feel about a mid-month session for fantasy themed games; AOS, Warcry, Underworlds, TOW and Blood Bowl.
This was my experience with Kill Team. I still played 40k, like everyone else, but couldn't get Kill Team games off the ground.
Then.... the time felt right, and I started a league. not as many people as I'd have liked, but way more than before and we're having a blast. I hope things work out for you
Endeavor to persevere
The local war gaming club approached me to use my pubs function room in sussex over a decade ago. Still there, still going strong, super friendly and relaxed club.
My father's generation had this where they would meet at a local bar to play Cribbage, Euchre or some other card game. IDK if there was a fee for the room or if they just sold enough alcohol to cover the rent for the room. We'd have potlucks and other gatherings there as well.
That’d be really cool - I’d love to play in a pub like that. Thanks for watching!
Dang that sounds great! I wish we had something like that over here in my area.
Is this the King & Queen in Brighton?
We used to do WHFRP sessions in an old pub in Carlisle for the cost of a drink and we could access the private room upstairs that you had to go behind the bar to use. It was good. We even did a bit of wargaming there and they allowed us to just, effectively, abandon a couple of boxes of terrain up there. Come to think of it I don't think we ever retrieved those. Think, 20 years later, it's probably a bit late...
Also remember that your local gaming store lives off of sales and not these events. Don't go into your local gaming store for events, and then buy everything on-line because it's a few dollers cheaper. If you want to support to stores, and use their services - buy the goods!
I'd be happy to pay the few extra dollars to shop local. Unfortunately I can't afford the ridiculous current prices of big name minutes in the first place (which tend to he all the stores stock) leaving me no option but to shop on line for resonably priced proxys or second hands. I suppose many potential customers are in the same position.
If you can't afford in store there isn't gonna be a hobby if some don't buy cheaper. If it's too expensive then maybe it's the business models fault, not the consumers. Even if GW is dictating some of the local shops business model. If local shops fail its more GWs, WotC, and Pokémon companies fault than the consumers. Blame the people making the rules. Lots of stores CANNOT stock cheaper, 3rd party alternatives people would buy or else they lose their suppliers contract for the "real" molded plastic and cardboard.
I used to support my local game store Non-Stop and then it closed down because the owner fell ill. Now the only game store were left with charges GW prices and doesn't even think about giving the 15% off discount.
Thanks for saying that.
I agree. My local game store closed last year. It never recovred from COVID. My husband and I always bought our minis, games, paints, etc from there. They had great hours for gamers and lots of space to game. Its small price to pay to have good place stay open. Now that its closed all gamers are scattered and trying to make due with the stores in the area that are not as accomdating or have much space.
My store used to have a 2000 sq' gaming space with miniature tables, board game tables, comfy office chairs, 2 65" TV's, video game systems, tons of hand painted terrain, the place was loaded. Unfortunately, I couldn't stop the "gaming community" from using the space to steal my store inventory. So we moved the space to another end of the store, isolated from the store inventory. So the " war gaming community" instead, stole and destroyed all the terrain, dice and accessories provided. When I closed that space, 90% of all the terrain provided was either stolen or completely destroyed. That is the reality of the War Gaming community.
Dang that sucks man, maybe you can just have the chairs and tables by themselves? They can't steal anything if theres nothing to take and people who wanna actually play can just bring their own / buy a set from the store.
That is horrible! I've never seen anything like that in any of my LGS but I'm sure mine had other problems. Rent is really high in my town and my fave went out of business two years ago due to rent and people not purchasing stuff as they should.
In Russia we don't have a GW stores even before 2022, and the wargame clubs is very important to our hobby, because of 2 things: selling us boxes and give us a place to hang out with our miniatures. My favorite tabletop club-store in Moscow didn't survive after pandemic((( But the 2 new clubs was open in the last few years! The most important things to, that every club (in Moscow we have around 7 such places) got a local community of friends and local jokes around them
I live in Serbia and there are a few clubs that play. Some people even print their own armies with 3d printer and paint them
The issue I run into around me is card games like magic are more popular, so if a set release occurs, forget it. The store lets it take over and now all the gaming space we had is now occupied.
And since new Magic sets seem to release every two weeks these days, that makes it even worse. Thanks for watching!
Magic players....they're..... like locusts
@@captaincosmo6157 😂
@@captaincosmo6157 Yup.
It makes the stores way more money, so it's not surprising. Tabletop gaming takes so much space compared to CCGs; you can fit in 4x as many people playing card games as miniature games. And perhaps more significantly, people buy product to use right away, which you simply can't do with miniatures. So they actually generate direct, immediate sales, in a way that having a tabletop gaming space doesn't.
The gaming club models makes a lot more sense in the modern world for miniature games, where there's no reason that buying miniatures has to be tied to the place where you play. But it's hard to kick old habits and getting people to shell out for a monthly use fee is a hard sell.
Third places are becoming rarer in the US in general. Channels like Strong Towns, Not Just Bikes, Citynerd etc speak about this. This issue is a lot bigger than wargaming.
It could help smaller games get a bigger slice of pie.
Capitalism kills 3rd locations
Thumbs up for the Strong Towns and Not Just Bikes shout outs (I've heard of Citynerd, I just haven't taken the time to watch them myself).
Honestly, more people (Americans in particular) should watch those channels.
Yup, relying on private, for profit businesses to provide common areas for socialising is fundamentally flawed.
The solution is a culture shift, people learning to cooperate and collaborate to build shared facilities... Like places to host gaming clubs.
@@saltfreegamer I think you are 100%, need a bit of a culture shift, but seems like an uphill battle. Currently it seems like the number 1 most protected value of our political culture is that the right to make a profit must never be impeded, and second is that the government doing anything socially, or encouraging an communal endeavor is tyranny and/or communism.
@@saltfreegamer Clubs and societies used to be a LOT more popular in the US. No reason why they can't make a comeback. Start with a core of highly motivated hobbyists who ideologically care about it, expand with members willing to contribute via fee, get to the point where facilities quality and the interesting member population is high enough to compete with balkanized home or purely business options.
I very awkwardly came up you to chat at adepticon and it was the highlight of my day. Thanks for doing what you do
We have ALL done that! And yes, it is always a nice chat. Sam too was great as we talked paint a bit.
I was so anxious my wife initiated the conversation for me after a HUGE eye roll....
Atom and I are nearly the same age and look somewhat remotely similar. Because of this, I have had strangers mix me up with Atom at any large gaming event that I have attended. At times it's been other TH-camrs, people with booths at the event, or fans.
If we were both at the same event & dressed the same, we could pull pranks all day on most people that don't know him personally.
It took me a bit of time to figure this out, so there may be photos of me with gamers who thought I was him out there from the pre-pandemic days. 😳
This vid is like therapy. I got into tabletop gaming with my son when he was 10. He soon amassed a crowd of friends and I was the dad that drove everyone around and made their gaming meet ups possible. Now that he’s all grown up and moving away I’m left without any gaming group at all. I’ve been trying to decide if I should just give up gaming and move on or start going to local hobby stores to try to find people to play with. It’s very hard in the US to find new people to play with.
I'm not in the US but Im down for any virtual table top gaming with you.
You’re awesome for supporting your kid like that
Playing a game of more than 1k points or kill team in Texas is a rarity.
Finding someone to match my 18k World eaters, khorne daemons and chaos knights in apocalypse is a pipe dream.
Trying to rebuild wargaming with kids in California with mixed results.
There are like 3 places alone in San Antonio alone so not sure where in Texas you can’t find 40K games.
One of the unfortunate things I have run across: There are a large enough number of gaming stores that don't really want you there. If it's not a CCG, they don't have time for it.
Sure, they *might* like it if one comes in to drop some cash on miniatures in their store (this is not actually a guarantee, as crazy as that sounds), but they don't have time or space for a group of gamers to come in and "take up their tables for their silly plastic soldier game". Yes, those words have been used at me.
Trying to find a free table on the weekends is a nightmare. Nearly every weekend there is some tournament, some event, something that is for CCGs. If one can even find a table, a LOT (not all!) of stores want to change a few gamers with their miniatures by the hour to use a table. Note, they aren't charging the CCG players for a table-- they charge them by the tournament buy-in, instead.
I've even run into situations where I have reserved a table and paid their over-the-top fee (it's like they *really* did not want anything but CCGs in the store) and after the person I'm playing with finally start to set up our armies we get told that "we don't have space for you today". Why? CCG tournament in two hours and they "need the table".
A lot of people also just do not want to share the space. Me, I am happy to share the space with CCG players, even if I want nothing to do with their games. We're all there to have fun, right? Lets enjoy the atmosphere. They rarely return the favor, and I'm not even talking about the kids that could do with a snack and a lie-down because they woke up cranky (though that can be an issue, too). I've had adult CCG players try to muscle my "stupid game" off tables and the store owners just "la-la-la, what, ohhhh, no that couldn't possibly ever happen" when it's brought up-- frankly, I think they were the ones who put the adult CCG player up to it on at least one occasion.
At least one occasion? Yeah, it's happened more than twice.
Cards. It's *all* about the cardstock. A lot of those businesses are built entirely around CCGs as their main form of revenue and anything which so much as squeaks a whispered cough out that is "other" is shunned.
I've even had it happen with TTRPGs. I tried to rent a table at a small games store in the area, paid up front, on a calendar, the works. On the second session, we were chased out of the store by the owner because "I have to close, I have something I have to do today that I forgot about" when we only play once a month. He was open later that day for a CCG tournament.
And, no, I do not use foul language in public. I am clean and well-spoken and respectful. It *really* isn't me; I stressed about that a LOT back then.
It sounds like you have some real bummer stores in your area. I hope you’re able to find a better one soon. Thanks for watching!
Like he said, all of these places are small businesses, and sometimes those small businesses are run by 'not very nice people' with their own agendas. It's so dissappointing that they're forcing out a potential revenue stream like that.
This is my local situation. We have one store in town, and over the last few years they've transitioned pretty hard to CCGs. Warhammer/Tabletop gaming nights are almost non existant (and they all cost now) and if you do go, you're tucked into a a back room. When there's new events or products, Magic/Pokemon/etc gets a lot of social media attention from them or promotional stuff, for tabletop games? Nothing. The only time they did was when the Leviathan box came out and that was one post on their social media. They're constantly sold out of stuff so I know folks buy it there, but it just seems as though the event/gaming side is really neglected in favor of CCGs. I get it, they get more income from it but it's still one of the reasons why folks don't go in there to game
@@paulfox3532 Idk, I find it hard to support the stores when their prices seems to always be exactly the same at the games workshops online store, but just without shipping included. I have amazon which cuts the price down by at least $30 minimum usually... I would support them and buy from them more if they at least did 10-15 off so I have it immediately and compensate for having to spend a bunch of gas to get there... Plus, I have noticed that the products in wargamming hobby stores have a tendency to not be sealed properly like normal products? Sometimes I have seen the contents out of box, or lid cracked because of it and I lose confidence that they are new and that the contents all inside, and thus lose confidence to buy...
You'd better believe if I paid upfront for a service, I would demand that service and either get a refund or refuse to leave. I won't be stolen from like that.
I help run a tabletop club at my university and we just play warhammer (and board games like twilight imperium) in public using tables in university spaces. Its actually a really rewarding way to do gaming because you get passers by interested in the games and thus the club, weve gotten new regulars through the strategy. Of course, its not something that can last forever, but whille we are in university we might as well use the resources we have.
This is awesome! Have you applied for student funds from your university? Might be able to use that to advertise some, and maybe get a spread of players across years so the club can perpetuate? That's a lot of work though, so even if it lasts through your time there well done!
6:05 - THAT sounds AWESOME!!! I WISH we could still do that! Have a "BATTLETECH WEEKEND", complete with the whole gang playing from morning to night, cookouts on the grill, atmospheric music, breaks for painting/building/customizing mechs, multiple tables for progression of a campaign..."sigh". We used to do something similar to that when we were younger and didn't have our own families and jobs that we had to work for hours-on-end... I think I've got something in my eye, excuse me...
I had this problem with D&D, we have games at the local library which were so fun, it was all ages and the kids would do crazy things.
But as my core gamer friends grew up and moved away it was a huge lost to the fun freedom of true pen and paper gaming.
This is not that because we can link up online in your area and pick a place or make a club. If there is a local library or coffee shop or comic shop(that doesn’t have wargaming) you can create awareness and help support a shop or space that didn’t realize it had other avenues to help bring peeps in.
I've thought a few times that local stores have a hard time making ends meet. So what would happen if instead, we had a place that wasn't a dedicated hobby store, but had a selection of supplies. And the location they were in allowed some empty retail space to be used for these sort of public games. (preferably, encouraged it too.)
I moved over seas 5 years ago, and I have rarely seen any indication of a local gaming presence. People here just aren't into it very much at this time. So no local store to play at.
We run a gaming club out of the house.
It started back in 2003 post university and everyone needing to chill. GWstores had chased us off. Everyone at the time like adult beverages. So it made sense to start it up.
Today we can skip baby sitters or leaving the pets at home. The kitchen is big enough for two people to be in there cooking completely separate dishes. So it is kind of a strange communal hang out.
But we actively send members to to gaming stores and events looking for potentail new members.
We started with 6 back in 03 and have nearly 60 people today. That includes some people's kids now that they are 18, spouses.
Yes kids under 18 can play. But we don't consider them active members until they can pay their dues.
Mostly the dues go into a big slush fund for building new terrain or club armies. A good chunk of it went to building 4x4 tables for most of our members homes during the Lock downs.
Games workshop stores in Australia no longer allows gaming or hobby in store.
I used to play every weekend there its kind of sad how the community no longer feels as connected with very little chance to meet new people.
That seems silly. If you don't want a community, why would anyone not by third party. Or even just print/play a different game?
I haven't been into a Games Workshop (I guess Warhammer now?) store in a while. This was... how I got into the hobby. I learned to paint at GW in Melbourne, taught by the store owner. If they don't do that sort of thing any more? That's a real shocking loss of connection.
yeah, same her in New Zealand, it's why I don't feel guilty never buying from them. Luckily, they do allows us to put up fliers for clubs in the store, and encourage people to come along to the local clubs as they get older. It makes sense from their perspective, as it means if people stay in the hobby longer by playing in clubs, they will get longer term customers.
There isn't a community, as far as GW are concerned. There is only constant throughput of money and this is interrupted if people stay in the store for hours not buying anything. It began in UK GW stores and is geared toward noobs coming in to buy, and anyone else who is specifically coming in to buy, preferably a boxed set. People who play do not buy in such amounts and they don't care that they still make some money if a new mini catches their eye, they need a fresh jar of a certain paint, or even a White Dwarf; they only want to deal with what makes them the most immediate profit RIGHT NOW and that is a noob buying a starter kit. They're like an Apple store.
@@thoughtengine Yup, it's sad to see that it started in the UK, they basically removed the ability to play for a LOT of their stores that aren't the main one (aka Warhammer world), it's also down to staffing. When they killed off the gaming and painting in stores they also cut down the staff to *one* member per store on duty at any one time. They want the staffer focused entirely on sales and demo games with the painting area being reserved for staff only purely so they can paint new product for the display cases if the store has them.
The only reason it’s hard to play games in my local area is because all of the card game players have overrun them
Yeah the magic players take up too much space. Especially on valuable times like weekends and weekday nights
Same in my area too. I never played war games but use to play D&D seems that D&D is mainly online if you don't have anyone willing to learn to play or know anyone that plays ttrpg. I rather play in person. There's 1 day that they do D&D at my LGS but the DM's only let X amount of players in their group which I think is bs.
A lot of the shops around me have turned into card shops, or new shops are just going with cards. War gaming requires a lot of space and that costs more money(rent). The shops that I used to game at now are just full of people sitting at tables sorting their card collections. I used to hang out and play war games but no longer. Cards aren't my thing so I don' go to them any more and its just easier buy my stuff online.
I’m thankful that down in Racine (right in your backyard) we have a newer shop that is ramping up their support for tabletop wargaming. Painting nights, gaming, etc. you do have to pay $5 but it is given back to you on a gift card to spend in the store. It’s called The Sanctum 🙂
That five dollar credit thing is smart - I’ve seen other stores do that and it can work pretty well. Thanks for watching!
It's a really nice store. I'm hoping they will be around for a long time.
Boy do I wish I had somethine like that! What a great idea.
We have a shop that charges $5 per person and does not give it to you in credit.... guess where I don't go anymore.
My local store (there are many near me) charges $5 to play but gives you credit so you can get snacks, we don't complain at all. A store that recently destroyed its wargaming community with many of the talking points displayed above have begun charging $5 with no credit given back to play wargames and specialty games there. That same store also owns 5 other locations. We don't go to any of them anymore as a result.
The difference between US & UK might’ve linked to average house size.
USA: 9,833,520 km2 (3,796,742 sq mi) vs UK: 244,376 km2 (94,354 square miles) I think is probably enough of an explanation.
There might be a link between the two…….
Moore important I think is population density. 8 million + people live in London. Montana, the state where I live, is roughly 50% larger than the UK, but has a population of 1 million people.
I do wish we had more gaming and other hobby clubs here in the US though. In addition to wargaming I build and run RC cars and I am very jealous of the indoor RC car carpet racing clubs that are scattered around towns and cities in the UK.
Gaming clubs exist in the US, mainly in the larger urban areas. They tend to be historical minis based, but most are open to other games. You need to try to look for the local conventions, and then see where the clubs are, as they often run games at the conventions.
The closest on to me now is over an hour away and I rarely get a chance to play due to my work being rota-based and my friends just working 9-5 jobs. But the my locals ones didn't close down because of the pandemic (or at least to my knowledge);
- One closed because the guy who owned it (it was above a corner shop, independent convenience store) wanted to renovate and use the upstairs stock for storage.
- Another closed because the two that ran it were wargamers first, and gullible second as their shop was built from drug dealer money as a front to launder money. It was obvious something was up when the store had a leather interior, film studio grade diorama battle boards and a bloodbowl board with a fully build stadium, led screens with lights and ambient soundtrack playing out of it.
- Third closed down because it was just a gaming space full of Warhammer Fantasy players (54 of us) and when GW killed the game, the group just disbanded and went to play other games. They stayed open for a year but without all those fantasy players they couldn't make rent without diving into their own pockets entirely.
We’ve got more tabletop gaming stores in Melbourne, Australia than ever before.
I was in America last year and amazed how few gaming stores were available and things were crazy expensive.
the problem with the shops where I live (Italy, Parma) is that they are not interested in creating gaming groups, they are only interested in selling and often don't have what you need
That type of store is a cancer for our our hobby.
Same in my area here in the US. The shops want you in there to buy the materials but don't want you hanging about and playing the games. Sad because I'd like to meet other gamers and have some friendly casual matches and maybe even learn some new games or teach games that I know.
It's the same thing in germany too. Weird how many stores are like that. Seems like this way of treating customers is the way to go
I am absolutely blessed that Pittsburgh, PA has a ton of local stores that all ensure to take time for us. We have no less than 3 stores working 30 minutes of each other that are all great gaming spaces. Exceptional shoutout to “Griffon’s Lair Pittsburgh” for their amazing support of the local wargaming community. It’s a clean, spacious environment to play and purchase wargaming stuff with no pressure and knowledgeable staff. It is always a pleasure to go there, and my whole friend group has grown to love the place.
I'm familiar with Griffon's Lair, good people!
I've met some great people out here in the gaming space! Also a lot of players here have been super flexible about what specific store they want to play in (I'm biased to drawbridge as my primary shop), but i've never heard of Griffons lair, i'll check it out!
Pittsburgh has a very interesting third space in Fabricator's Forge that applies to this topic. For a time it was a sort of hybrid of the way UK clubs would run and a traditional US game store.
I might have to make to the 2hr drive to PGH then. I couldn't give a fuck less about 40k and I'm tired of trying to figure other games out by myself. I stopped going to the local store because 40k dominates and it's so boring to watch.
@@zug1974 Fabricators Forge just opened up a second location as well further out from the city.
Efter seeing things like this I am always reminded of how blessed I am here in Sweden in this hobby.
We often have local (boardgame) clubs etc which are in part funded by taxpayed organisations so even clubs in small towns such as 20k people have a location dedicated to playing Boardgames.
No need for stores or rening spaces etc.
That's an amazing policy! Is there some kind of national community group fund?
What is your annual tax burden?
@@MyCleverName If PwC is to be believed the standard municipal tax rates are 32%. Annual income over $56.000 pay an additional 20% national income tax. Expats pay a flat 25% in general. It's pretty high, but the welfare state in Sweden is very highly developed as a result.
@@MyCleverName
The organization responsible for giving out that money received a little over one million dollars from the Swedish State, more are given from regions and (maybe, not sure) municipalities. So every person pays a couple of Swedish Kronors per year to does organizations, in US dollars that is maybe 20-40 cents at most. Per year. Aside from helping giving kids and younger persons things to do other than party and drinking, it gives back in the form of supporting the gaming industries, a place to learn the practical side of how the organizations in the civil society works and much more.
I make no moral/ethical/utility-based conclusions. I was just curious about the tax burden.
I am glad we are experiencing a growth here where I live. The main two stores town have expanding in gaming space and both are doing it their own way. One does both in store and second hand selling, while the other is holding tournaments and demos on a daily basis with large groups.
The Midwest is _WILD_ compared to the south for card and table top games stores.
I live in Springfield and we have:
- The 2nd largest Warhammer store in america
- 5+ local game stores
- some relevant chains (Barnes and Noble for example)
Back in Birmingham I knew of _two_ LGSs in the entire Birmingham metro area (like 2 full counties) plus your major chains that sell some relevant items (books a million, for example).
For D&D or Pathfinder I play online, for Warhammer 40K I play at the GW store, and for MTG there’s 2 LGSs that I go to.
I live in Indianapolis and we have at least 4 game stores, one of which is a chain, in the city limits plus a we used to have a couple of pub/game store hybrids (which, I think, went under). The surrounding suburbs have at least 1 store per town.
I'd been talking about this on my main blog on and off.
The stores need to change their business model from a retail front to being a paid membership clubhouse and event space (like in Europe). It's the only way, long term, that these businesses can stay open as retail recedes from realspace in favor of the far superior convenience of online retail.
The problem is that wargaming clubs are generally run by volunteers, and the dues go to cover rent. Game store owners feed their families with the money they make from their stores. If they just become wargaming clubs and charge to cover building rent, then they’ll have to find day jobs OR charge a lot for tables. Thanks for watching!
Hello from the UK! Why are gaming clubs not a thing in the US? It's an amazing way of sharing resources- tables, terrain, knowledge etc etc.
The UK is the miniatures capital of the world. Even in Ireland clubs and stores are basically nonexistent by comparison. You really don’t know how good you have it - the people willing to commit to clubs are not that common since the hobby space is not a cultural pillar in many countries.
@@ImrahilToChaos Certain parts of the UK are the miniatures capital of the world. Locally for me there are zero clubs or dedicated shops within 3 miles (a quick bus ride). The nearest are 11 miles, a GW store, but the independent games club is not realistically accessible via public transport on any given evening as it's not "city centre". Fine if you drive, but not everyone does.
For the US, at least my part of it, property prices and rentals are just too prohibitive.
This seems to be a US vs rest of the World thing. In the US, you play in your FLGS, because space in cities is comparatively cheap due to it being huge, so adding tables isn't that bad. For the rest of the World, it's less of a thing, as space for Stores in cities is expensive, so most gaming happens at clubs, which are in Community halls, Schools, I know one here locally in a Cinema.
@@AnthonyPaoliMasakiSays For Canada, it's also the same thing, property prices and rentals due to inflation are ludicrously high! ...It's a national crisis here. That and all the good jobs that disappear don't help either. :(
I am sure it is different for everybody, but I just wanted to mention my local Warhammer store not only has tables for people to play on that are frequently used, but the guy that runs that store was more encouraging to us (my bf and I) as new players to bring in whichever miniatures we have in whatever state they are in and come in and play. He even offered to teach us new games we wanted to learn with the store minis or to coach us for one of the games we are trying to learn. Told us to phone ahead and he will even get a table set up and ready to go. Now, don’t get me wrong, we still love shopping at our friendly local game store too and they have been very nice and have great deals. Just wanted to say not every official GW store is like you described and funnily enough while we do most our shopping at the FLGS, we prefer the official Warhammer store as our “third place” to play because despite being smaller the atmosphere is more welcoming and beginner friendly. For us, at least.
It surprises me that there aren't more 'UK-Style' gaming clubs in the US - especially with some businesses struggling as much as they are.
I would think a local library would jump at the chance to host a small club - they gain revenue, popularity, free advertisement and offer resources for gamers to do research all in one!
A small cafe or diner could benefit hugely.
I used to attend a club that was above a Mexican-style Cantina and we (the gamers and attendees) spent so much money on food during club hours that the owners eventually stopped charging us 'rent' because it tended to be their most successful days! 😂
Yes, I’m not sure why that’s such a rare thing here in the States. Maybe after some research, that might be an another video topic. Thanks for watching!
Most people don't know about the facilities available at public libraries. The hours are also a challenge, most Libraries aren't open late on weekends. I used to use a library to run simplified 40k games, I would go on Sunday afternoon and use one of the conference rooms. I had pretty decent response.
Storage. Homes are too small for one person to store all the stuff, and the library won't do it. Usually the only places that do are scout huts. Scouts are there on weekday evenings, and not using it on weekends, and they have somewhere to store the tables and terrain.
@captaincosmo6157 so you're saying that the Scouts are a good option for supporting a club? They do have a hobby patch, maybe even a tabletop gaming patch (not sure). That's probably another good option.
Your view on libraries might be a little narrow though, from experience they're quite useful, and contrary to "having a lot of stuff and nowhere to store it" it doesn't take a lot of stuff for a burgeoning club, I could fit everything we needed in a Rubbermaid tub and have space left over.
Libraries absolutely will do it. Most have conference or community rooms that can be used for no cost to public facing groups. Libraries also want programs for kids and young adults and welcome anyone that can provide accessible programming for them. They have tables at Libraries, usually wonderful big ones.
@@tabletopminions I would love to see a video about successful groups that meet outside of stores!
Personally I wouldn't mind game stores going away and going back to gaming clubs that didn't try to dictate what you can play based on if they sell the product or not. It's just a shame that in the US most gaming still revolves around the local game store, to where the store decides what is or isn't allowed to be played. I've seen a lot of stores that are treated more or less like gangs with turf, including rivalries with other stores for "stealing their customers" by daring to say they have events too.
I doubt that clubs will become popular in the U.S. - you’d have to pay to play and that’s not a concept American gamers are into, I’ve noticed. Thanks for watching!
let me guess. you got kicked out a store because of your 3d prints?
@@imthelizardking me? No not at all. I've just seen way too many stores dictate what people can or can't play when the store should be beholden to the customer, not the other way around. Nothing sucks worse than having a neat new game and people don't even want to give it the time of day because the game store can't buy it.
Like I said I've seen people treat their local game store like it's gang turf And the center of the universe instead of it just being a place to play, which 9 times out of 10 means "Play warhammer or play by yourself" which is bullshit.
@@imthelizardking I've seen people being refused at tournaments because the store didn't allow Forgeworld model (they don't sell them), which for those people was like 40% of their army
I don't play in games in stores too often (Just started really), but none of the stores near me have any rules of that nature at least none posted. I mean most anything you play is something they can order even if they don't normally carry it.
There is a hobby store in my area that nearly shut down because of the pandemic but didn't because the town was really supportive and helped them a lot. :)
One thing my group is finding is we are playing free rules, like OPR and using 3d printed models or models that are out of date GW models, so we don't really want to waste space in a store on games they don't/can't sell.
I spoke to a game store owner yesterday and was honestly surprised to hear he had such a positive opinion on games workshop. At least from a realtailer game store perspective, they are very chill and easy to work with when compared to lets say Wizards of the Coast. They apparently have always been supportive of local game stores. And that makes sense when you think that game stores are some of the only places with tables big enough to play these games.
What I'll day is it depends on the store. We only recently (past 6 years) got an official GW store where I live. It went in right beside (1 minute drive) one of the main stores that provided table to play at and already carried GW products. The local gaming store felt betrayed because one of the main reasons GW was even having success in the area was because they were providing a place to play it for years.
The local shop also told me that they started having issues getting the number of orders they were requesting for newer products when the new store went in. Despite the new store getting ample supply it seemed.
Eventually the local shop removed the tables and added more retail space because they couldn't afford to just support the GW shop when it was only willing to be a retail store and nothing else.
I know you stressed the difference between "Third Place" and "Third Space" but I think it's important to go into the distinction. A Third Space *is not a private commercial* space, and that's what an (F)LGS is. It's a retail business first and foremost, not a social space. And I'm just not comfortable "hanging out" in a shop with (very expensive) retail stock surrounding me.
Sorry for my confusion, and I would rather not guess, but why does that make you uncomfortable?
Huzzah! Hard Knox Games, Elizabethtown KY. Is an awesomely amazing Hobby store. I'm Grateful for it and those that work there.
My local Kill Team group started at our Cigar and Pipe shop, moved to one member's house due to competition for space with TTRPG groups (not a complaint) and as we've swelled to 10 regulars we've actually relocated to a local store. We've all started to place our pre-orders and buy all of our hobby supplies from them to show our support. So far it's been great!
I own two game stores and have a huge game room in one of them. It was really sad for a couple years after Covid seeing the room sit almost entirely empty. The past six months or so has seen people coming back and the gaming areas are packed most nights. Thanks for your support.
I miss the one game store in town that had huge gaming space that you feel guarenteed place to game. Open till 9 every night. but now gone. The other places in town have either really limited hours or certain days of the week only, small places so no guarentee if you can game there, not much parking. Just really made it harder.
There was a Wargaming club in one of my previous towns, I paid my dues, but they closed after I moved away due to a transient population issue.
This happened to the Warhammer store I used to go to, it was only business for 4 years but after covid it was closed due to lots of transients and constant break ins. After covid the area became very unsafe and people were scared to come
Here in the MA/NH area, we've *gained* stores since the Pandemic. There's been some closures, but overall, we're still up.
Same here in CT. I think maybe New England as a whole saw positive growth post Pandemic and that is in part to a lot of the stores organizing and supporting each other during the Pandemic
yeah the stores I frequented survived and I think I found a couple new ones (though those ones don't have game tables)
Also a New England player I live in CT and play at Klever kolbold in Groton I also am in NH pretty offen and have been looking into a few places around the Nashua area that offer gaming found a couple have not played at them yet or been to a event but that's just cause I was not able to arrange the time to do so
Squatter: "Hey man I love your Skaven paint scheme, is that Clan Skyre?"
Me: "Yep! I do like Green and white but ultimately decided on the drab green and deep red, for that classic look."
Squatter: "Well I'm not leaving anytime soon, why don't you cook us some pizza and let's play! I brought Bretonnians."
A friend of mine and I play at a local store. We love it. We enjoy the people there and are very grateful to have found the store on more or less a whim.
3:07 Exciting for our UK club, 2d6 Lodge, to be the one you chose to show the details of!
The Admins here actively put efforts to express the third place concept and provide a safe space for people to play, express themselves, and be a place where we encourage players how to play well with others, no matter how a game turns out!
Great stuff :)
I've played once there (infinity) and it was a great place! Moving house soon and hope to come down more often :)
My local shop has tables, or at the very least table toppers. But these local stores' bread & butter sales come from card games. They take up less space, don't need huge 4'x6' dimension tables, and can hook people with cheaper prices than plastic crack. Between that and just everyone basically butting shoulders to have space to play has made my regular shop a near nightmare to organize in. A dedicated space like the clubs in the UK would be amazing.
Talk to your players and set one up. We have two stores in my town that are great, but they just can’t accommodate the 10 Star Wars legion games we have going on at game night. Our club solved that.
@@photonfartsqueeze6694 How? Where do you play?
@@manjr We play in a church. We went to places where large groups can congregate and asked for accommodations and cost. The church let us use their space for free. They don’t push religious agenda or ideologies on us, they just ask that their community members can play war games with us (which we are totally fine with because it grows our group). We organize all our communication through discord. We poach people from game store social media forums in our area to join and play with us since our stores don’t really support us. We still buy products from them and have no ill will, we are just too large for their spaces. We have a locked locker for terrain and all 16 of our tables are fully painted by the community. It is under lock and key and a few of our group “leaders” possess keys.
City council halls, town halls, community centers are all other option you can use.
@@photonfartsqueeze6694 That sounds amazing! Thank you for the reply.
@@manjr the hardest part is getting people together. If you can do that finding a place isn’t so hard. You can do it!
I'm in the Louisville, KY area and we thankfully have multiple stores booming with players. It's been great to be able to get out for a game and chat with everyone around.
Hi from Minnesota. My local game store closed last year. My husband and I always supported it as much as we could from buying our games, paints, etc. Not everyone does this. Amazing how folks don't equate buying stuff to helping fund the place to meet. Its small price to pay to have place to go game. The hours were awesome of 10 am to 9 or so pm. When it closed now everyone is trying to figure out another place to meet up. The other stores in the area don't have the space dedicated to it or run out of space, and don't stay open as the closed store did.
But it was nice to meet new folks in neutral friendly place. Now it feels harder to meet up.
I try to support a local Game store when I can, mostly through the purchase of board games and the occasional pot of paint. However, as host for Chicago Skirmish Wargames, gaming at a local store becomes a tough sell when...
- you own a critical mass of often-large terrain.
-the FLGS carries none of the games or miniatures you want to buy.
-compared to the ease of playing at home.
-other effective avenues for recruitment exist. We recently brought our regular attendance back up by adding 2 regular members via Discord and meeting at TMX.
All this to say the more established, independent and older one (and one's group) becomes, the less the FLGS has to offer.
CSW is an inspiration! I've been reading your club's blog for a long time.
Where do you guys typically play?
@@manjr Slightly south of a Chi. (Midway area). It's a good group of wargamers with diverse interests. I highly suggest joining and participating in the forums, get in contact with the organizers which are more active there if you're interested. :)
@@krzto Sadly, I don't live in the area. I was just asking what type of venue they play in - church, clubhouse, etc.
@@manjr Thanks for the kind words. So glad you enjoy our stuff. We play in my basement.
I had an owner tell me he didn't want anyone playing miniature games in his store, even though they sold them and had tables, card tables. For every pair (2) of people playing miniature games in store, he could sit 8 or 6 people playing card games, so he just flat didn't want miniature gamers in the store anymore.
Each of those 8 MTG players is probably spending $30 on the event and will spend an additional $30 on snacks for the night. The 2 40k players will spend $30 on snacks.
Multiply that over 5-10 tables and you quickly see the massive gap in revenue that TCG's generate for stores vs wargaming.
There is zero financial incentive to run wargaming tables over card game tables.
My local game store has done an amazing job of getting engagement back up post-pandemic, even to the point that they expanded into a nextdoor cafe/bar and then opened a second location.
They have events all the time, including frequent "Learn to Play" and "Mini Painting 101" classes. They also have a robust Discord server that they use to announce events, let people coordinate times to play, ask questions about games or painting, or just generally chat and feel like part of the community.
I think one of the real keys is that everyone who hangs out there knows that inviting people in to learn is good for all of us -- there's no gatekeeping or noob hazing. I've made a lot of friends there and the whole community vibe is wonderful. I'm a hardcore introvert, but it's one of my favorite places to hang out.
I am really lucky to have not one but 2 shops near me that promote tabletop gaming and card games. One shop thats actually the OG shop even moved into the city from their old location so now they are even closer.
There’s a local shop here that wants to charge $20/hr on the weekends for a space the size of a card table. My other shop is booked up with events all weekend and you can’t get a free table on Saturday or Sunday. I just go to Barnes and Noble and play in the cafe.
Oof! That's a pricey table. Barnes & Noble is certainly a better choice. I've talked about possibly setting up at a bar I sometimes frequent. I've painted at the bar before and I know that people used to play Magic at a different bar I used to go to.
@@sporf_sporf part of the table price was if you buy something, it goes towards the okay time. I wasn’t too impressed with the shop. Had tons of board games, Pokemon and MtG and a smathering of TTMGs.
@@greywhizard That's a little better, but not by much.
@@sporf_sporf not even close for my friends and I. I don’t mind playing in public, but I mind paying to play. I however hope the shop does good.
@@greywhizard I agree.
I do belong to a club here in the US, the HAWKs, based in Aberdeen, Maryland. We have been at this for thirty years (since 1994), and have meetings in a church hall twice a month. When we put on our local convention, Barrage, other clubs within a 1-2 hour drive show up to stage games, so there are more of them out there. We don’t have dedicated storage for terrain, so the gamemasters bring/arrange for whatever is needed for a Friday night game, but the club does own a number of folding banquet tables. I’m not in charge of that, but I believe we let the church use them for large events when needed in return for storing them there. The club was originally started by a gamer who wanted more opponents and decided to train them himself by running a “Learn to Play” class at the local community college. Most of the people who showed up were other gamers looking for opponents, so the club formed after the class. We try to keep organization down to a minimum, so the two significant offices are the treasurer (so we can hold the money the convention makes and pay the church), and the keymaster, who carries the authorized key to let us into the space.
That sounds great. I’m glad you have people who are dedicated to keeping that going. Thanks for watching!
Does someone have a personal connection to the church? Or are you guys just paying customers?
@@manjr Someone does have the connection, but we had previously been in a different church for a long time after our connection left. Many churches are glad to have someone in the facility for security. But you’d have to ask around. I have noted that getting meeting spaces at the local library is free here, which would also be an option.
When I moved to Appleton WI one of the first things I did was find a local gaming store that I wanted to play at. We are spoiled for choice with the amount we have, but aside from the one I frequent, none run leagues or really do any events for tabletop games, large scale or otherwise. So it feels like the the owners don't see the effort needed to run events and leagues as worth it. No judgement its a lot of work but for bringing in people and making friends especially after the pandemic and in a new city was really helpful to me. My local game store really is the place I frequent the most and its because we have built a community of friendly players.
I’m in Appleton, looking for a group to do Necromunda or Grimdark Future:Firefight and other skirmish games. Which store do you hang at?
My store near me is mainly card tournaments, me and my buddy stared warhammer in the end of 9th and started to encourage players in the store discord to come play more, now the store has a thriving 40k and aos environment, they even started histing events, only down sude is the store is have the warhammer minitures at higher prices then gw sometimes, makes it hard to keep supporting then due to it feeling like theyre taking advantage of this growing hobby
Where I live Australia there are quite a few gaming clubs that hire a community hall for a night or afternoon .
The club normally has a small membership fee and players pay a fee when they go (non members pay a higher fee).
People can go there and play whatever games are played locally.
Some of the local store still have instoee gaming but not as much as they used to.
Good to hear. Same here in the UK. This is the way.
Same in New Zealand, makes it easier to play bigger games, and meet gamers.
What do the halls charge?
@@manjr My club charges £4 an evening, which is enough for them to hire the hall.
@@leejamesburns Thank you for the reply! That seems quite reasonable. Do you know what the hall charges the club?
I used to play at a local store, but the community is completely toxic. An individual stole from me, broke my models, cheated, and talked an inordinate amount of shit.
Then, when I had a problem, stood up for myself, etc, they pointed at the 9 millimeter pistol they wear, and said “are you threatening me???”
Texas has legalized open carry. Also, it’s a stand your ground state.
The store owner sides with that guy. So I don’t go to that store and that’s the face of the wargame community, to me.
I’ll just stick to painting a few models and selling them on eBay. No point getting shot.
That’s illegal brandishing. A class C misdemeanor.
The stand-your-ground laws in general only apply to the imminent threat of violent crime. If you weren't posing a direct violent threat to them, they would certainly be in more grave trouble than just the class C misdemeanor. This is the sort of thing you report to the police, if only to indicate that there is a person there who is a potential threat to the general public.
@@DiggingForFacts I wish I’d known that back when this happened.
That was my 6th game of 40K, when all that happened was and it’s left a pretty bad impression of the game community on me.
Wait they pointed the gun at you?
@@Apex_Yonko he pointed at his weapon, he did not point it at me.
This is Texas so open carry is legal here.
We've started to play more at home too. One approach that helped make the transition from FLGS 4x6 to dining and kitchen table is moving to squares instead of rulers/tape measures. We now play our games on a grid of 4" squares measuring 9 squares x 12 squares. The battlefield feels as vast as a 4x6 with move and weapon ranges rescaled. Many popular 28mm games use 6" increments for weapons ranges which is 8 increments deep x 12 increments wide on a 4x6. So our grid is actually 1 increment deeper. 👍
I'm part of a war game group that does mostly historical games. We meet once a month at a local store. There's usually 20-25 people playing various non-mainstream games. It's something that has just developed over the last year or so. While were at the shop we buy snacks from the shop and most of us make a concerted effort to buy something from the shop even if it's just a couple paints. It's a lot of fun. This weekend we are having our annual convention. This is one major way to do things. This shop is essential and we don't play Warhammer. Anyways there are ways to make things happen by doing stuff like this.
If you want to have a wargaming club, you know you can just set one up right? All we do in the uk is find a community or sports centre, a church hall, or a university that rents out their hall. You then use the internet and posters to spread the word, and once you have enough players to cover the costs you rent the space and play there. I find it hard to believe America doesn't have at least some of those facilities. Maybe people are more spread out, so would have to travel further, but if you're willing to travel to a shop you can travel to a club. Start with just the gear you own, then once it gets going the club can invest in terrain etc. It's a bit of work to run, but I've been involved in several rpg clubs and one wargames one over the years, and the committee doesn't have that much to do except when you need to change venue for whatever reason. Mostly its just a bit of work to keep the wheels spinning and promote the club so new people keep finding it. With your network and TH-cam presence that should be easier than normal! So go for it, it's great fun and really grows the community like few things else.
Trouble is, said clubs have happened, and I've seen them come and die. All that remains is their old Faceplant accounts so they can organise games at the one LGS that still has space for minis.
a lot easier in the UK as more people are exposed to the hobby and you are not spread out thousands upon thosands of miles from other players. Its still pretty niche in the States. and unless you live near or in a big city, you are lucky to find 3 or 4 people locally who even would care to try a game, let alone enough people with armys ready to go who can arrange their schedule to match with everyone else to form a game night.
Your organizers have to be people that are rooted long term in the hobby and the community. It’s really not that hard. We developed a club here in the Midwest.
Asking three or four people to shell out $75-100 every time we play to cover rental costs isn't exactly realistic.
the distance is a huge factor this had been touched on recently buy some TikTok guy that's came to the states and traveled around .. then factor in economics of it
not even the cost of buying your own army your gonna be asking people that want to be in the club to drive 30,45 a hour or more to get to a location that's 20/30$ right there or more then if you have to rent a table or a space for that night its not like it's gonna be cheap its pretty sad really cause most of us in the states would be as gitty as a fanboy meeting his fav star to have the level of community for wargaming as places like the UK
I am glad the algorithm recommended your channel. Even when I disagree with you, your calm, level-headed and logical demeanor is very refreshing to watch.
Thank you for another very interesting topic. I co run a local gaming club. We have weekly meetings at store who is extremely friendly and supportive. The genuine downside is that we have very limited space to play even skirmish level games in a space that lives and dies by TCGs and CCGs.
Here I N.Ireland we have no hobby stores but lots of clubs
Clare Gaming & Hobbies in Ballyclare 👍
As someone who ran a store for a few years, and spent great amounts of my time with stores as my 3rd place, I think they're vital. Beyond the games themselves, which I think are essential on their own, community is something desperately needed for gaming communities.
I wholeheartedly agree, I try to support my local gaming stores as much as possible.
As a store owner, what do you think is the reason behind the diminished attendance at local game stores?
So very well said. They are 100% vital.
@theanimaster Charging for table time, poor terrain and no place to store my own terrain, ridiculous prices for products, magic player that take up a ton of space due to their numbers.
@theanimaster It's been about 2 years, but the economy is a big one. People don't have as much money to spend, so they're more likely to resort to the very cheapest options which is usually Amazon or the largest discount retailers. Traveling to a store can be taxing with gas prices, possibly needing to eat out instead of at home adds up. And I think people are just incredibly overwhelmed and burnt out with the state of the world right now. Not bringing up specific politics because... well... but those global, social, and domestic circumstances can leave people without the spoons to be present.
I was not expecting this channel to post a video talking about Third Spaces, but I really like it. I had this on while washing dishes and thought I was in Urbanist TH-cam(where I first heard of the concept). My FLGS has a membership program that I pay for even if I don't go to the store that often because I'd rather the store remain open than see it wither away.
Very helpful and thought provoking video. I've sent this along to my buddy who owns and operates a local gaming store, and we are presently working to build the wargaming culture and participation further with the local community. Thanks! :)
Hey that’s me! Preparing for Tanks, as Vince goes over rules. Always fun to see yourself in a TH-cam video.
Great video as usual! Also agree with the content 100%. I have found myself going to a game store a bus ride away to play games with my friend as I no longer have the space to host at home. Free tables, so we always try to buy at least something in there to help support,
Me and 3 buddies actually have a 40k day set to play at our local comic shop. We normally play in a garage. But we’re all new to the hobby. So it’s also a learning experience for us too.
I'm in the USA and I've been to several game stores in 3 states and I can say the stores are normally the problem. Places that used to have healthy game groups even after the pandemic have been cutting back the space they use to play. I've seen table space shrink my at least half in most of the stores I've gone to replaced with merchandise. T-shirts, toys, posters, figures, other collectables. What concerns me even more is that trend has been pushing out the variety of games as well. Several stores I've gone to used to have several large bookshelves full of board games, card games, RPG books, minis, all kinds of stuff. The Merc area has started encroaching on these areas as well. The last store I went to had the merch section, a tiny play area, the Warhammer shelves, the checkout/display area where they sold mostly magic cards, and one tiny shelf of board games and RPG books and minis. Even their 40k shelves was half paint and the other half mostly Space Marine/Custodes box sets. Very few books or other factions. Even if I could afford to get into 40k (which I can't) how am I supposed to play without the rules? Store hours have also been a problem. A local store that used to be the store to play in, cut back their hours drastically. Closing at 9pm on Friday. This nukes all but the smallest of magic tournaments. By the time most people get off work, get home, change cloths, and get to the game store, there is only maybe 2 hours of play time left. Saturday they still close at 9pm. This same stores used to stay open until 2am and would let games go until 3am while they closed everything down. Now 8:30 they want everyone to start wrapping up and getting out. If it were just one store I would pass it off but I've been to 5 in recent years and noticed the same trend. I get that Magic and Warhammer are the big money makers and if you can make your store "the store" for magic and Warhammer you can make money hand over fist. But there are only so many stores that can do that in a given area and when you make Barnes and Noble have the largest game selection and have no interest in hosting anything expect 40k with $50+ USD entry fees and Magic with its restrictions and fees.... One "game" store wanted to charge us $5.00 per person to play Dungeons and Dragons in the store. Covid nuked the gamers out of the business and now the suits are running the show... they are following the "Game Stop" model of removing all the games and replacing it with merch. Its not working for gamestop and I don't think it will work for these places either.
My FLGS has a play area bigger than the main store. You can reserve a table if you’re a member of their patreon/club. Saturdays are open game days where anyone can try it on. I don’t play, but I bring my boys to the paint nights on Thursdays.
Great video, good topic to cover.
My take is that the Pandemic really threw a wrench in social groups, many of the people around me (me included actually) reconsidered their career choices and moved to other towns.
Moving in LGS as a stranger was a REAL mixed bag for me. I could usually find very low amounts of people to "connect with" as I arrive surrounded by already pretty tight "cliques" of people that all have their own personal reasons to like/dislike people around them.
Something so trivial as taking a seat with a person others don't like can sort of "brand" you as "one of those guys" and it took me a while to even understand that social dynamic as, quite frankly, I did not care about the "people" but rather the game itself.
In the end, another thing to be said for rural area, people ofter play on a budget and have very specific rules they play to as the game designers are often trying to "milk" their franchises... it as the side effect that less fortunate people just sorta lose interests in the more "official" side of things.
on my end, I say LGS are dead in my book. I had for more success with meeting people at work where we line up a bit more in our temperaments and bigger convention where its expected to not really get personal all that much.
LGS in this day and age are often just the shadow of what they used to be, they are smaller, have fewer players and are often plagued with their own sub-culture and sometimes even animosity for outsiders that may or may not play at different store (which is crazy to me)
Great video! Very true, I have a large group that meets at my house but we are now meeting every other week at a store.
I work at a game store. I am "the wargaming guy" pretty much, even though I am very much a novice. We have Conquest on Sundays but we still tell people to bring other games as well because we just want people coming in and playing. This is a very appreciated video, and I hope we start seeing some outcomes from it!
I think one important thing to have that ensures that your local scene and place stays afloat is to have a method of communication available to players and the store. My region has it's own discord for trades, commissions, discussions and match arrangement but also the gamestore I play at set up their own discord in order to not only allow players to arrange their own games at the store specifically any time they want, but also for the store owner to communicate with the players and organize events easier. It's also a much easier way to get people's foot in the door with a simple "If you're interested we have a discord"
Somehow my town had 3 game stores, in many ways I'd be the ideal customer for any of them but don't currently know other locals to play. The staff at each just looked confused when I talked to them about this, if they could have just organised some events, a bring+battal night or even justbse up a fb group for intrested players I'm sure they would be thriving, but two shut down and one pivoted to other businesses.
We have an informal HH playing group. The best place is always a specific local store for us. It has tables for beginners day, competition, just casual game etc. I think it would be missing if it would have been closed permanently. I know some hobby mates thanks to the opportunity of playing at the local store. And also it has some kind of special atmosphere of the store and the whole procession when you are preparing your army before action. Yes, I definitely count it as a Third Place.
Such a great topic, Uncle A. I think much of this boils down to many gamers not wanting to feel obligated to spend money at a game store. They prefer to buy online or 3D-print stuff. If they’re prevented from increasing their pile of shame then they get cranky.
This must be a your part of town phenomena. I’m in ohio we had a weak 40k scene and non existent aos scene prepandemic. We cant find venues big enough to host the amount ofpeople who sign up for the monthly rtts anymore. Its a massive scene and has greatly benefited a ton of stores nearby
Where I grew up in Australia, there were constant wargaming clubs.
But the local game store still has plenty of tables set up for groups to play.
Through Covid etc its become more common to play solo games at home.
The reason Complete Strategist in Falls Church Virginia closed was due to Amazon buying the building the store occupied. The old building has been demolished and a really large multiuse building has been constructed in its place. I was personal friends with a few of the folks who managed the store, the people from the New York store were never going to close the Falls Church Store, even though it operated with a slim margin. However they had no choice when the property was sold to Amazon. The new building will now have an Amazon Fresh as well as apartments and a large parking garage. Amazon also purchased two other properties that were adjacent to the old building the Complete Strategist occupied, there had been an Applebee's as well as another Office Building, which have also been demolished.
I live a capital city in Australia and I know of 3 game stores that shut down because of the COVID pandemic. These were all places that I went for buying supplies or met friends for games. All that is left for gaming are GW stores which cost 20% more and also don't allow non-GW models/games. There is one popular store for supplies but it's an hour round trip to go there.
I'm in southern Wisconsin, and there must be something in the water, because during the pandemic several more stores OPENED and events are increasing. The only thing that seems to be waning is interest in GW stuff. A whole slew of competitors have cropped up, and their response seems to have been to double the price of their products and reduce the number of models per box...
I moved a couple years ago, and was fortunate to move into a town with a gaming store. It was like 5 minutes from my house, but they recently moved across town to a larger space. We have a regular age of Sigmar group on Sundays, and 40K happens frequently. There are also monthly tournaments for each. A new store opened about half an hour away that also has monthly tournaments for each.
In Huntsville Alabama (and surrounding areas) there are a surprising number of gaming stores with tables for gaming, and sometimes single table rooms with a door. Apparently it's related to the high number of technical jobs because of the local military needs. But lots of war gaming as well as TCGs, RPGs, and board games. There's some turnover in stores, but I think some of that is debt shenanigans.
My LGS is my Third place most weeks. I absolutely love going in person, and meeting all the people. Even days I don't play are fun days.
I live in a small city in Middle America. We've had about 15 different gaming/comics stores at different times since the 90's. They almost all failed for the same reason. The business owners almost always prioritize the in-store gaming over the rest of the business and even amongst those in-store gamers they prioritized their friends/gaming groups over all others.
I run a flgs in Germany. It is a small store, but we have two dedicated gaming rooms and a big selection of tabletop terrain, some demo armies and many boardgames that people can use here. While there was a sad slump in gaming-activity during the pandemic (though thankfully not sales), recently activity has picked up again and the gaming Tables are used daily. We have store organized events as well as people who just meet here to play wargames, boardgames, rpgs and card games. My impression is, that we are getting more and more people here, meeting and playing all kinds of games, not less. So the situation here in Germany may be different. I do hope it stays this way. The unused gaming tables during the pandemic time were sad enough.
i remember in Norwich in the 90's the local Games Workshop store was set up that when you went in by the main door there were 4 large tables with games going whenever i went in, some sort of demo or game was always happening one might be Warhammer, another would be 40k, another would not be a game but with terrain on it and someone moving it around and setting it up, and the fourth would be something like bloodbowl or such. They also had further back painting tables were you could paint your minis and staff would come around and give tips and tricks on painting. Plus every month or so there would be an in-house painting saturday with the winner from that day put in the window for a month so there were always changing displays made up of shopper's art not just GWs. But now GW seems more focused on 40k than the "traditional" citadel stuff.
My local store is where I recently got started with my army and where I've found helpful people to give me tutorial games.
Here in Brussels (Belgium) the Warhammer store isn`t big but still has 2 gaming tables. I am very thankful to that, as someone from a far away country living here for a few years only and just starting the hobby I wouldn`t be able to find people to learn how to build, paint and play with or other players otherwise. I really hope FLGS persevere as gaming spaces!
i'm in the uk. my towns has a few hobby store that have came and gone over the years. We had a good one that closed at the start of last year. we pulled all the individual groups together that went to the shop and set up a gaming club the runs 6 days a week and all our gaming is thriving expect war-gaming that is a bit stagnant. i would rather game at our club than at a store now. It frees us up to buy where every we want. now our players are trying new games and expanding into different things. not limited to what the store has in stock. the only down side is we cant get any official prize support or promos unless we buy it our self's from a 3rd party. a new shop opened up a few month ago and we dont go near it. helps the owner is a terrible person and has already put a lot of the community off going.
Not sure if it's a local UK thing but we have more game stores than ever! In 2008 when starting we only had a few GWs, now we have a load of great indies.
Spending time at my FLGS helps my mental health. My gaming group was a decent size (3-4 games on game night pre-pandemic)). However, we saw a significant drop in players (1-2 per game night). We still have a regular night at our FLGS, but make time to accommodate life's chaotic changes to schedules. Meeting at a different time or location. We try to determine interest a night or two before our FLGS scheduled day. I read in another comment about someone just being present with their stuff and talking to interested folks. This could prove beneficial. We talked to a dad and his two children (ages about 8-12) last night during our game. They asked questions and we answered as best we could. They watched a couple of interactions in the game. They thanked us for taking time to talk before walking away. I did hear the dad and his son discussing our game as they were leaving.
I have a hard time adding people to my group because honestly I don’t want to spend time teaching people anymore. Spent years doing that already. Taking my stuff to a game store is a pain in the butt, it is long way to travel (1hr), and if people are not there it is a serious waste of time. The pandemic definitely totally murdered going to stores for myself and my buddies. I have since added 3 tables to my heated garage and we can game here at home where it is much closer for everyone.
I play AoS at my local GW every other weekend. The people that run the store run frequent narrative events. We just finished a two month event themed around a jousting style Grand Tournament, and we’re about to start an event themed around the Dawnbringer Crusades, founding a new city. I’m glad my local GW has been thriving.
Hi from the UK, a very important third place here is the pub. That's where I play tabletop games, and surprisingly enough lots of lovely beer is available, so all good.
I would never have done more than solo Warcry in my basement if I hadn't learned about, and started coming to, a narrative Warcry league at a local store. That was a game changer, and haven't looked back, since. It can be tricky finding people who play some of the less popular games, and having that LGS venue to meet, play, possibly teach, is a big deal.
My local warhammer store is super close, but while they do have lots of gaming tables, they close at 7 PM, which makes it real hard to find people who can come in and finish a game before closing. Thankfully there are other stores, which have later closing time.
There's a store right down the street from me in our small town... but it's not a particularly friendly place and seems only interested in hosting 'tournaments' of MTG, 40K and MTG. It's nothing like the gaming spaces we hung out in during the 90s, where I could run into all sorts of new and interesting games.