Just thought I'd drop a comment down in the who ha here. Can clench nails be used in place of rivets? Say for example in a clincker/lap dory using white cedar?
Indeed they can. the boat I am currently building uses both. You would choose clench nails over rivets if you wanted a smooth surface and greater speed of assembly. The downside is lower repairability compared to rivets.
This is where the term "dead as a doornail" comes from. Door frame nails were typically clinched in medieval times for added strength in the door / frame while also allowing the wood to shift slightly so it was less prone to splitting. The problem is these nails are unfit for any further use so they are considered dead.
I'm learning about Naval History and boat construction and how boat design gave or didn't give advantages in combat. V useful to see how a clenched nail works - thanks 👍
There is a long tradition in boatbuilding to take common sense techniques and give them two or more different names just to confuse things and fuel arguments on internet forums. Glad you liked it.
So i comment on your latest video about when you were going to talk to us and here you did. So sorry about that, again wonderful work and I can not wait to catch up on all of them! Jim
No worries Jim. You were right to give me a kick in the ass on that front anyway. Getting your sub early on was really encouraging by the way. Thank you for that. You might like what I'm doing over on Instagram. Lots of chit chat vids and educational content happening there. I do a ongoing long format project features. @nomadboatbuilding. See you later on the Tubes buddy.
Very informative videos. Can I ask a few questions about a 16 foot peterborough cedar and canvas canoe and a 9 foot cedar and canvas row boat that I am fixing up? Do you have a video showing how repair canvas that has separated from the gunnels rather than re-canvasing? Is there a product you could recommend for this job and a technique? I have a full shop in my basement so tools are not a problem but these boats are in my car port so I am limited to weather. I live in Northern BC where there is 6 months of winter. final question. do you have plans for converting the row boat into a sailing dingy? I have my fingers crossed you are still actively doing this work??
As to your canoe problem. Separation at the gunnels is a pretty clear indication that your canvas is reaching end of life. It may split along the stem or keel next but perhaps it was mostly moisture retention during inverted outdoor storage that is causing the canvas to rot. So, if you want to try and stretch out the use you can try one of two things. Option 1 is to try gluing a new swath of canvas to the inside of the old along the sheer line. Maybe 4”wide. It probably won’t look great and it will be a real pain to get it in there. Option 2: is probably better and easier but a little more involved. Glue a new swath on the outside but make it wider for looks. Like a sheer plank. Cover the lower edge with a wooden moulding. You might choose to staple the lower edge at the ribs. I would probably use 3M high strength 90 or high tack 76 spray adhesive. The high tack is reposition-able so a little easier to use. You can use latex paint or primer or even tile adhesive to fill out the canvas weave before final paint. Anything heavy bodied and flexible works well enough but straight oil paint will do too.
As yo your dinghy conversion, that’s harder to describe in a few words but it’s doable. You’re best bet is to copy a sail Plan from a similar size boat. You’ll have to find the Center of lateral resistance in your hull and figure out where a Centerboard or dagger board should go relative to that. Then figure out where to position your sail rig relative to those. Your best bet is to do a little reading on small boat design to understand those relationships.
Typically no when used in small craft but in my area wooden fishing vessels were often clench nailed and countersunk. In this case though, the nails are heavy steel cut nails and the tips we’re simply bent over. The countersunk nail heads were puttied over.
Would you not try to bend it over so it will "wrap around" the fibers, rather than going in line with the fiber? Just as you did it, but rotate all 90 degrees? Awesome how you take time to set up the camera angles. Much appreciated! Greetings from Denmark
I the case of the plank laps, clench nails do cross the direction of the wood fibres but they are run in line with the grain on the frames. Partially this is because the nails all run in the same direction for efficiency in fastening but in the case of the frames which are usually oak or other hardwood, it is easier to make them flush with the surface of the wood.
Thank you for an excellent demonstration. I have a question though. Is it acceptable to nip or shorten the point of the nail slightly if it's deemed to be too long for the holding material ?
Sure but doing that may make it harder to turn the tip over initially. You might have to get creative with a special purpose bucking iron to overcome that. It really depends on the gauge of the nail and the hardness of your planking stock. If you can’t find the right size clench nail then riveting is always an option. You may even be able to use those “too long” nails as rivets if you can find the right size roves.
Thanks, for clarification; the only Q. left is, gosh,if you REALLY want the nail to hold, shouldn't you clench the nail ACROSS the grain? As in holding a hinge on a sizable door(like a cabin in the woods situation?).
I hear what you are saying. On the planks that is what happens but on the frames they go with the grain. It has to do with two factors. #1, the frames are harder material and we want the nail end to be flush and clean which it will be by going with the grain. It will sink in better. #2 It's an efficiency of movement to do them all in the same direction.
You are likely stuck with using either screws, ring nails or find somebody to be on the other side for you. It's hard to co-ordinate clench nailing with two people though. You will generally just end up with a smacked over nail unless you take it slow or get clever and make a bucking iron with a nice semi-circle groove that will turn the nail just right for you.
Just thought I'd drop a comment down in the who ha here.
Can clench nails be used in place of rivets? Say for example in a clincker/lap dory using white cedar?
Indeed they can. the boat I am currently building uses both. You would choose clench nails over rivets if you wanted a smooth surface and greater speed of assembly. The downside is lower repairability compared to rivets.
@@Nomadboatbuilding Well you can replace clinched nails. Just harder and not "retightenable".
A lot of the ration and ammunition boxes during the Civil War, were clenched nailed together. Pretty neat seeing it on boats. Thanks for the video.
Kevin Springer is that so? Pretty cool. Fast way to put something together that you would really not like coming apart.
This is where the term "dead as a doornail" comes from. Door frame nails were typically clinched in medieval times for added strength in the door / frame while also allowing the wood to shift slightly so it was less prone to splitting. The problem is these nails are unfit for any further use so they are considered dead.
Thanks for that Moose. I'll have to remember that for future clenching lessons.
Looks like you nailed it.....
I'm learning about Naval History and boat construction and how boat design gave or didn't give advantages in combat. V useful to see how a clenched nail works - thanks 👍
This was EXCELLENT! Great advice. Thank you for the video 👍
I've done this before and didn't know this was an actual technique. I was just using carpenter common sense if that's a thing. Great video 👍
There is a long tradition in boatbuilding to take common sense techniques and give them two or more different names just to confuse things and fuel arguments on internet forums. Glad you liked it.
So i comment on your latest video about when you were going to talk to us and here you did. So sorry about that, again wonderful work and I can not wait to catch up on all of them!
Jim
No worries Jim. You were right to give me a kick in the ass on that front anyway. Getting your sub early on was really encouraging by the way. Thank you for that. You might like what I'm doing over on Instagram. Lots of chit chat vids and educational content happening there. I do a ongoing long format project features. @nomadboatbuilding. See you later on the Tubes buddy.
Very informative videos. Can I ask a few questions about a 16 foot peterborough cedar and canvas canoe and a 9 foot cedar and canvas row boat that I am fixing up? Do you have a video showing how repair canvas that has separated from the gunnels rather than re-canvasing? Is there a product you could recommend for this job and a technique? I have a full shop in my basement so tools are not a problem but these boats are in my car port so I am limited to weather. I live in Northern BC where there is 6 months of winter. final question. do you have plans for converting the row boat into a sailing dingy? I have my fingers crossed you are still actively doing this work??
As to your canoe problem. Separation at the gunnels is a pretty clear indication that your canvas is reaching end of life. It may split along the stem or keel next but perhaps it was mostly moisture retention during inverted outdoor storage that is causing the canvas to rot. So, if you want to try and stretch out the use you can try one of two things. Option 1 is to try gluing a new swath of canvas to the inside of the old along the sheer line. Maybe 4”wide. It probably won’t look great and it will be a real pain to get it in there. Option 2: is probably better and easier but a little more involved. Glue a new swath on the outside but make it wider for looks. Like a sheer plank. Cover the lower edge with a wooden moulding. You might choose to staple the lower edge at the ribs. I would probably use 3M high strength 90 or high tack 76 spray adhesive. The high tack is reposition-able so a little easier to use. You can use latex paint or primer or even tile adhesive to fill out the canvas weave before final paint. Anything heavy bodied and flexible works well enough but straight oil paint will do too.
As yo your dinghy conversion, that’s harder to describe in a few words but it’s doable. You’re best bet is to copy a sail Plan from a similar size boat. You’ll have to find the Center of lateral resistance in your hull and figure out where a Centerboard or dagger board should go relative to that. Then figure out where to position your sail rig relative to those. Your best bet is to do a little reading on small boat design to understand those relationships.
Wonderful video, clear and concise explanation. Newbie question, do you countersink the nail head, and if so, what is the method?
Typically no when used in small craft but in my area wooden fishing vessels were often clench nailed and countersunk. In this case though, the nails are heavy steel cut nails and the tips we’re simply bent over. The countersunk nail heads were puttied over.
@@Nomadboatbuilding Thank you!
Would you not try to bend it over so it will "wrap around" the fibers, rather than going in line with the fiber? Just as you did it, but rotate all 90 degrees? Awesome how you take time to set up the camera angles. Much appreciated! Greetings from Denmark
I the case of the plank laps, clench nails do cross the direction of the wood fibres but they are run in line with the grain on the frames. Partially this is because the nails all run in the same direction for efficiency in fastening but in the case of the frames which are usually oak or other hardwood, it is easier to make them flush with the surface of the wood.
Would you happen to know if this method was used to nail the planks of ancient clinker built ships, such as the Viking ships?
The Vikings used a variety of fasteners, clench nails were one of them. They also used iron and copper rivets and wedged wooden trunnels.
I learned something thanks
Glad to hear it
Thank you for an excellent demonstration. I have a question though. Is it acceptable to nip or shorten the point of the nail slightly if it's deemed to be too long for the holding material ?
Sure but doing that may make it harder to turn the tip over initially. You might have to get creative with a special purpose bucking iron to overcome that. It really depends on the gauge of the nail and the hardness of your planking stock. If you can’t find the right size clench nail then riveting is always an option. You may even be able to use those “too long” nails as rivets if you can find the right size roves.
Thanks, for clarification; the only Q. left is, gosh,if you REALLY want the nail to hold, shouldn't you clench the nail ACROSS the grain? As in holding a hinge on a sizable door(like a cabin in the woods situation?).
I hear what you are saying. On the planks that is what happens but on the frames they go with the grain. It has to do with two factors. #1, the frames are harder material and we want the nail end to be flush and clean which it will be by going with the grain. It will sink in better. #2 It's an efficiency of movement to do them all in the same direction.
@@Nomadboatbuilding Absolutely Bud !!
Where do you buy the nails
If you are in North America, Faering Designs is the best source.
Any suggestions how I might do this to replace nails on a boat where I can't reach both sides simultaneously?
You are likely stuck with using either screws, ring nails or find somebody to be on the other side for you. It's hard to co-ordinate clench nailing with two people though. You will generally just end up with a smacked over nail unless you take it slow or get clever and make a bucking iron with a nice semi-circle groove that will turn the nail just right for you.
Nice bro