**VIDEO NOTES AND CORRECTIONS** - Ok, apparently "logos" does mean "reason/logic" in Greek which is news to me. I'm only familiar with "logos" as "divine logic." So that's a thing. :P - Naokarma has pointed out that "Ethos, Pathos, Logos, and Kairos" make up something called the "Rhetorical Appeals." I had never heard of this up until now so I can't add much insight beyond, "this is worth looking into more." - The Major Arcana is NOT a suit. The Major Arcana plays a very different role in the tarot than the suits of the minor arcana. Originally there WAS NO Major Arcana, and that's why you can do proper Tarot readings using a normal deck of playing cards. They share the same roots. (Hearts for cups, spades for swords, diamonds for pentacles, and clubs for wands). In addition, the Major Arcana tells the story of the Fool's Journey. Every card in the Majors represents either a person, obstacle or event he encounters throughout his life, eventually coming to rest at the final card, the World, as he reaches enlightenment. As such, the Majors in a tarot reading only really talk about spiritual growth or big shifts in ones life. This is why I don't consider them to represent the Primordial One. If anything, they fit the Traveler more.
I was curious about the idea of the stories told by the artifacts being connected to the type of the tarot suit it represents and so far from studying a few of the artifacts sets in my opinion the goblet and the sands are actually reversed as goblets make references to mora, treasure while sands make more often reference to a feeling or a virtue. So the suit of pentacles and cups would swap which artifact would refer to. At least in my opinion. But I will look to more sets and will see how this idea holds up. Awesome video by the way! I always love your content!❤
Ethos, Pathos, Logos, and Kairos are the main means of persuasion. Kinda surprised you hadn't had this stuff drilled into your head in highschool, tbh. Mine spent like at least a weak on it in every English class I had. Then again, my school was a little odd, so I shouldn't compare it to what's normal/standard. Either way, I felt it was worth pointing out given the use of the word/name Kairos, at least. It's not really used in a different way than the original meaning too much, though.
@@Naokarma Oh! I never learned that in school. But then again, my schooling wasn't conventional either. I went to a different school every year so my lessons weren't consistent. They're called the Rhetorical Appeals, huh? Interesting. I'll have to look them up (And I'm gonna add it to the pinned comment cuz I think it's a neat thing). Thanks for pointing that out!
I just find it so funny how venti “Fixed” the holy lyre for a time but emphasizes that the fix wont hold forever, you could say he fixed it for “A moment”
Man, Ishtaroth/Kairos sounds like she might also be Paimon. Fell into the sea and survived? Hm, we resued Paimon from "drowning" off the coast. What if she wasn't drowning as much as she was floating back up to the surface? Paimon also knows a lot, and is the self appointed travel guide. When she isn't in her pocket dimension she's floating around us with a cape that has a space motif and constellations that pop in/out of existance with her and her pocket dimension. She was encountered in/Associated with Mondstat, the land of wind and time, and we seem to have gained some sort of small time control with her.
Do you remember the very small island with a sundial in the middle of the sea in starsnatch cliff (i think), the one that's not on the map? The game starts with the traveller sitting on the beach facing that mysterious sundial island so maybe that's where they found paimon, and that sundial is associated with time and wind too
I remember the theory that Paimon is one of the moon goddesses being on this channel a few months ago. The fact that the evidence can point towards the three being 3 of the 4 shades supports this. I'm not convinced that Paimon is Kairos herself, but maybe a product of her, in a sense. An epithet of Kairos, if you will?
I have no idea how Mhy is able to pull inspiration from so many sources, implement it into so many aspects in Genshin and still make it make sense 20:36 revisiting this video after having read the Chasm artifact's lore. And wow, you might be right, the sun was also driven by a chariot, and after some disaster it crashed into the plains west of Liyue, creating the Chasm (Zhongli was very young at this time so we can estimate this to be approximately 6000 years ago). This meteor was described to have a "proud and agitated temper", and that it leapt back to the heavens presumably during the Archon War
@@cosmicpegasus9697 it doesn't make sense because they are not making a good job executing it. Idk what copium you all inhaled but the Genshin lore is so convoluted nobody actually understand what's happening. The quest are boring af. They get these inspiration and references from a lot of culture and mythology without simplifying anything and makes the story complicated and hard to follow. If you think the game has the best storytelling then i pity your definition of "good storytelling". I advice watch media that actually has good stories in it so y'all could have better judgement.
@@Vizible21 well I only meant to the point on managing to connect the events that's all and as I said sometimes doesn't make sense because considering they take inspiration from mythology and culture but they don't a good job of explaining everything as in story telling important part is to explain every situation like vision hunt decree was due to fatui and that's all? I mean rn nothing makes sense as game hasn't yet came to a point where everything makes sense overall it's just for player satisfaction at this point ☝️
Something I've come to expect is that I don't think all of the "inspiration" was actually intentional, but rather come from common sources. Essentially you can draw parallels between many different mythologies. With these parallels, you can have something that was actually inspired by only one of them, but it can appear inspired by the others just because of those shared elements. In this case, it would still be accurate to say that the elements are related to those other stories, but not actually directly inspired by them. Regarding the storytelling in Genshin, it is definitely not the greatest, but I think it's adequate. The worldbuilding on the other hand I personally find to be rather interesting to dive into, especially since more information is delivered slowly across several updates allowing it to recontextualize earlier information to present a completely new meaning. We can make these kinds of predictions, and unlike with a finished work where none of the predictions can be confirmed from that point on without sequels and spin-offs and such, with Genshin there's actually some hope that the questions we have might be answered in future releases.
This is why i like learning about history and different cultures and seeing this game pull different lore form history culture and this is why i want to see the full story of this game.
If you can only understand the lore of the game just by researching about the inspiration they were taken and only understand them based off of that then they didn't do a good job of it. Inspiration from different culture is cool and all but the execution tho?
@@Vizible21 the game is barely 1 year old. People said that Raiden's story was bad and had a lot of plotholes, when now with the second story quest, most of the loose threads were tied up and properly explained. So I say give it time, because if you've ever played mihoyo's other game honkai, they do make things intentionally vague in the beginning but I do believe there will be payoff.
@@Vizible21 I think this is where the concepts of world building versus storytelling probably comes in. The genshin world building is vast and incredibly detailed but some of the storytelling (especially in chapter 2) wasn't executed as well as it could be. I'm hoping mihoyo picks up the ball with that and though I'm not holding my breath, I'm hoping it includes more voiced traveler so they can feel more like they're a part of the story
Some notes from the Chinese version: *Herrscher of the Void is actually "Herrscher of Space" in Chinese, as "Space" and "Void" uses the same character "空" as abbreviation. *"Principle" (as in Heavenly Principles) and “Reason" (Logos) share a similar relationship as above, as both are abbreviated as "理" *There's a concept, somewhat pervasive in China, but nowhere else, that there actually exist four exalted pillars among the 72 demons of the Ars Goetia, which are Baal, Paimon, Asmodeus, and Astaroth. So far, the possibility that Mihoyo intends to use it cannot be eliminated. It is notable that Istaroth is likely a variant of Astaroth, and the sustainer's beta name is supposedly "Asmoday". *In "Ode to Azhdaha", it is referred to that Azhdaha's palace reached "Wangshu". Wangshu is a poetic name for the Moon in the Chu tradition, but it actually refers to a god that drove a moon chariot.
That's news to. I've definitely heard of the Four Kings of the Cardinal Directions, but generally their names are Gaap, Amaymon, Corson, and Ziminiar. The variation i could find closest to this was Paymon, Asmodeo, Egion, and Maimon. Guess there's more investigating to do...
@@Ashikai On the Chinese side there were some digging into the origin of this concept, but so far there's been no dice. It's been speculated that it might have arisen from a translation of an obscure (possibly Japanese) work that ended up sustaining itself through a wikipedia cycle-esque kind of thing where people just copied each others' articles/citations. Nevertheless, it cannot be fully dismissed as Mihoyo has a tendency to reference popular culture, which this concept has found its way into, ironically somewhat thanks to genshin's usage of the ars goetia. It's a causation loop.
What if venti is one of the seelie people who survived the disaster in the angels's hall. He has a cape that stretches over his knees,just like the seelie cape that leaves enough space for like knees. The top of its head looks like a bumpy hat that looks like it has feathers. And venti can come near seelies and they aren't scared of him. And he holds them in his hands,and a seelie was known to sing to a wolf. And venti REALLY loves song. And the seelies are turquoise and who is associated with turquoise?? *Drumroll* VENTI
I also thought of Venti maybe being related to the Seelie in some way! I'm glad to see someone else considering it too.. Additionally to what you already mentioned, I wondered if Kairos/Istaroth being the goddess of the thousand winds maybe just means that she was the one who *created* the winds herself and those winds were the Seelie that according to the game were specifically *created* to guide humans. It would fit right? Afterall the Seelie should have been created at roughly that time when Kairos/Istaroth was around. In the game the wind is often brought up with the motif of guiding or leading people so that would fit pretty well too. In one of the catalysts stories it is said that the winds are shapeless/formless but have some sort of personality because Venti/Barbatos "gave" them one by writing odes for them. It is also said that they were "called by name". This would kind of suggest to me that they at least used to have names at some point (or he named them himself) Venti is known for writing songs to preserve the memory of heros like Vennessa etc. so maybe he did the same for the other winds/seelies that he considers family? (It is said he considers the thousand winds as family and friends). I mean why would he name each single cloud and wind otherwise in dedicated odes and consider them family if they aren't already his family? Personally, I don't think that they are just anemo-colored for nothing. The game works so much with colors and their elements that it seems odd to me if they just made them look like this without second thought. Also if we look at the Seelie courts (the less broken ones in Enka) then we can see that they had feathers and wings for arms which are definitely associated with wind/anemo and Venti. Just a thought but I would love that theory to be true because I've been interest in the Seelies story since the beginning (and I like Venti)!
Venti: "The pen is mightier than the sword" Zhongli: Earth - Geo, he is the oldest archon, and has the ability to create subspaces, as an adepti, if I recall he infact TEACHES/blesses adepti this art. Places like an hourglass, without change, like passing the time back and forth. Those two are good friends right? Hmm... On another note with all the greek references, the style of helmet in the art of the crown is a Corinthian helmet, Corinth being one of the largest and most important cities of Greece
The beginning bit on the "world becomes anew" makes it sound more like some level of terraforming. Given that the vishaps kings probably survive the terraforming, might mean that the pre-Primordial One world was not survivable enough for regular life/humans...
Remember humans can't handle elemental energy almost at all. Simply having noctolucus jade risks the owners life if it's not processed properly due to elemental residue. The vishaps are creatures native to teyvat (or pre teyvat) so logically their bodies are made for this land. Humans are foreign and even now they haven't evolved to handle elemental energy without divine intervention such as being given a vision.
When I first discovered that one of the 4 shades was the god of time, I immediately thought the the other one's would be Death, Life and Space, so, the alternative translation fits better for me (Also, it's a bit strange to have 3 gods of time, unless they are direct related to present, past and future, which does not seem to be the case, but it could be) Also, I find interesting how it fits well the taffle teory you made a while ago (Like, 5 kings, one of them being the high king, etc)
Actually, that's genius, because it still fits with the Gods of Time, Life is a way to mark a passage of time, Death is for when that passage ends and another begins and space obviously being Space-Time. Death can also be transition, a way to change one passage to another
@@nyarlathotep-thecrawlingch6335 Okay, so, logos aside Were assuming there are 3 gods of time, because there are 3 moon sisters. (I pretty sure there's also 3 rulers/gods of time/fate on Nordic, Greek and Roman mythology to support this) (However one of the artifact types being direct named after time is a bit odd when you think about having 3 gods of time) So, Time is time, while death and life can be associated with it (Life = Passage of time, present, in-between or beginning and Death = Transition, future or end (Not exactly the end of all, but maybe the end of a cycle)) Having a God of Life is a but odd too, considering the existence of the dendro archon, but I guess dendro is more related to plants? Can't really speculate about with almost no in-game reference to it You said about the space-time correlation, well, we could also throw space aside, and stick with 3 gods for time (Maybe the 4° one represent space and is the Khaenri'ah moon from we will be reunited?). Space not being one of the moon sisters could also explain why the Unknown God is alive, if she's one of the shades, since it's said that the 3 moon sisters died (Which could be a false info, 2 bodies crumbling away is sus)
@@HDrago The Moon sisters dying isn't a confirmed fact, it's from the perspective of the humans, is it not? So that means they may still be alive, just not in charge of the world anymore except for the Sustainer
Not directly. It seems like something the second thrones did, not first one. Like the essence were kept somewhere, and the second guy found them and turned them against the first one, but in new form
The vishaps do seem to possess elemental abilities, so it's not impossible that the seven lords could've each had some affinity for each of the elements.
@@danielm5535 more likely than the gnoses if we look at what kind of alchemy sucrose practices. She transforms living things (p.e. frogs) into those little butterflies she uses in her skill and burst. If you look closely the core of the butterflies are cube shaped. Similarly (as mentioned in the video) the presumed god of space also uses cubes to manipulate space. Therefore it‘s not unlikely that the 7 vishaps were transformed by her or the primordial one into the cube-shaped hypostasis. Likely the archons and their gnoses do have some connection to the hypostases though because the hypostases seem to reflect the state of the current archon/region in that the anemo, geo and electro hypo show cracks in their design. After sumeru has come out now the dendro hypo has also proven to be unique in how it is defeated by restoring it (through dendro) and getting rid of the cracks.
Although I don’t think it’s likely that Venti is a reincarnation of the Primordial One though…Venti himself did say that he was once one of the Thousand Winds. I thought it was something like the Primordial One creating his 4 shades and one of the 4 shades creating a thousand winds and one of those is Venti. Something like that. This brings me back to the riddle about the Year, Months, Days and how the father is the Year and the daughters are the months. What if the Primordial One and his shades and the thousand winds works kind of like that?
I don't think so. His powers are too limited compared to Primordial One. But I think he knows about him. I think the king from the Gnostic Chorus is the Primordial One and it's told by Venti. The first crowned heir is Istaroth who took care of Enkanomiya (which guess fits the description of the Kingdom of Darkness). Venti knew Istaroth, so he knew about fate of Istaroth after she was "deceived".
Going through this video I had a completely random thought that I thought I’d type out here. When you mentioned the story of Noah’s arc, and that it was where humanity came from, It got me thinking. In the story of Noah’s ark, Noah, after the flood was over, sent out a dove to find safe land for the surviving humans to rest. If the Project Ark theory does have merit, do you think that the travellers could be a representation of this dove, since they are supposedly looking for a new home? And if that’s the case, is their creator the primordial one? That could potentially tie in with Albedo since the primordial human project was named after said god, and the Traveller & Albedo have a lot of similarities that have yet to be uncovered. This is probably completely wrong, but it was an interesting idea. Anyways great video Ashikai! Always making me think XD
But doesn't that mean they would have to have been sent by a greater power to search for a suitable environment 🤔. Imagine the reason they were trapped here was because they risk outside entities finding out a out this world. They risk invasion or out right destruction. They don't want the people to realize they aren't native to this world, if they do people will want to look beyond, but what if they are hiding . Then celestia risk being found. The twins may just be collateral in this situation since they risk exposing teyvat to their masters.
@@venti9925 they are looking for a new home. Their presence in teyvat isn't what triggered the heavely principles, it was their desire to leave. Take to mind she chose to strip us of our power and thus our ability to escape. Why she didn't outright kill us, I don't know. They are quick to hit the reset button on nations who pondered the meaning of life a little too long, so it is strange that we weren't clapped right then and there. Even further Raiden was free to eliminate any threat to her divine ideal, which we know is close to the heavely principles. But being an exception to Raidens eternity may not me comparable to being an exception to the heavely principles. For all we know that could have been our saving grace. It's just speculation.
Just a note, Logos translating to logic actually makes a lot of sense because logos usually translates to logic in rhetoric, like in ethos, pathos, and logos. Great video as always!
[39:13] The Only creatures that I can think of for inhabitants of pre-historic Teyvat would be the inhuman ones who we don't have much explanation for... like the *Tanuki* (and Tengu and Oni) in "Inazuma", *Foxes* _probably_ in "Mondstadt" (as Ioroi points that they weren't originally from "Inazuma"), the *Adepti* (as *Qilin* and such) in "Liyue", the serpent-like things with tridents whose name escapes me, which we suspect lurk(ed) around "Sumeru"... Like, *Before Sun and Moon* doesn't say anything about the creation of non-human creatures, but they do exist! Sus! Like this world was an amalgamation of Demon worlds from many mythos, ruled by elemental Dragons... and the Primordial One decided to live there with his _humans_ cos' reasons. (Seelie probably don't count, as we assume that they exist / were created to guide humanity _and_ I am still for the E.L.F. theory, lewl~)
I've been wondering, when you defeat an abyss herlad, it says "the abyss shall rise AGAIN"... Again? Like was there an abyss order before the Khaenriah incident that transformed its people? Maybe abyss order existed since the primordial one when Khaenriah /Enkanomiya And teyvat were one people. But then when the primordial one was defeated by probably Celestia who came later, the heads of the abyss order are planning for revenge and had the transformed people to join the abyss order... Maybe?
there is a difference between the Abyss and the Abyss Order, we can assume that the Abyss has always been there (maybe its what the primordial one separated teyvat from with the egg shell), so they may be referencing that?
I appreciate how the more we learn about Genshin's world the more mihoyo's grand scheme somehow gets simultaneously more murky and yet coherent. i wouldn't be surprised if after all of this we find out that the 'Primordial One' and its shades were people with advanced technology from the Honkai worlds that used technology to recreate the world, and then forbade that exclusive technology from humanity in order to "protect" them from the hershers and honkai, that 'godhood' and the knowledge of technology is exclusive only to 'gods' and therefore they use it to stay in power and that's why they had to destroy khaenriah, and that magic is a type of technology that the abyss are slowly corrupting and they are at war with Celestia for that very reason, perhaps even seeing the honkai as benevolent. my brain hurts from all the possibilities but I must say thank you for another epic lore video - whenever I get the notifs that you've posted another one it just makes my day.
29:00 Something else to add on to this point is that Venti has not only taken on the form of his (dead) friend but he also often tells tales of people from the past aka dead people. He is remembering dead people and helping others remember them as well. This just further solidifies Venti's connection to Istaroth.
Also I think we can draw parallels between the Genesis Pearl with the snake around it to the World Egg and the snake wrapped around it. Both are very similar. Also this Ark probably refers to Teyvat since Teyvat means Ark right? But that wouldn’t make any sense if all this took place on Teyvat itself when we know Teyvat is some type of firmament and not a world.
the whole Teyvat could be a story of Alien cultivated pre-existing planet to make it fit for their survival, and in the process killing the original dominant species
It kinda makes me very sus of Raiden Eis origin now. There are so many things about her that is related to the moon. I suspect that she is the reincarnation of one of the moon sisters who probably died and became twins with Makoto after reincarnation or something. Her past form might actually be like the omnipresent god statue and is probably the Sand of Eon piece since Eon is the largest unit of time, aka very close to eternity. Mihoyo would most likely link their 2 original mcs together in all their games, aka Kiana (the sustainer) and Mei(Raiden). So it makes sense that both of them are the shades of the primordial one. They came into conflict and one of them died. The ending of ggz game was Kiana killing Mei, so the moon sisters killing each other is just mihoyo repeating the same story. Just look at the plane of Euthymia, there is a red moon inside to represent her as one of the moon sisters most likely. And even her charge attack with her spear has the shape of a crescent moon. So in my opinion Raiden Ei is even more sus compared to Venti. But it is possible that Ei forgotten that she is one of the moon sisters, maybe only recalling fragments of the past. Eternity in greek is Aion, and the sands artifact is Eon, which comes from the word Aion.
And Sands is the only piece that can have ER main stat, the most crucial stat for Shogun and her role in a team. Well for most players at least, whales can just hypercarry her, do anything they want, Teyvat's law cant bind those whales 🤣.
The result if the war of the second throne is something I’ve been thinking about for a while. That and the Night Mother are just two lore bits that just hang around in my mind rent-free. I definitely think it’s possible that the second throne won and banned books on the history of Teyvat to cover it up and deceive the people into thinking that the powers above never changed. Celestia was once benevolent but stopped being so after a certain point. I’ve been wondering if the war of the second throne was the turning point. Also, I wonder if Nix (Nyx?) has any connection to the Night Mother. The name definitely matches
I just love how enka basically confirmed Kokomi to be the human rebirth of one of the Seven Sovereigns, Dragon of Water. Can't believe this but I might actually skip Miko for Kokomi...
An hourglass and Death are super related as a persons life is represented as an hourglass, in fact I would say that the hourglass is one of the most recognizable time-related symbols of death.
Quick thing! There is a fifth “suit” In tarot known as the Major Arcana which has the cards like The fool, the Emperor, The tower, things like that. They represent big ideas and… bigger picture things. Rather than the more specific things the main 4 suits get into. I think it’s interesting how that plays into the crown artifact too since that artifact specifically has a big part to play in how your character is built and how they play
That's not really a suit. The major arcana and the minor are, are distinctive between each other because the major arcana actually deals with spiritual and or things that don't technically manifest for real in your daily life. These are things like a spiritual growth or healing from past traumas and things like that. People put far too much stock in the major arcana. The minor arcana are a lot more reliable of a reference and the reason why they have suits is because they're very closely related to the normal deck of playing cards that we use today, with cups being hearts, swords being spades, wands being clubs, and diamonds being pentacles. To call it its own suit is a bit misleading I think. I say this coming from a long line of professional card readers on my father's side. I still have family members who do this as their full-time job so I kind of grew up steeped in it and therefore have my own biases based on that experience. However I can say with confidence that I have never heard of the major arcana being called a suit. What is worth looking into as far as the major arcana goes, is the journey of the fool because that's actually what the major arcana represents. The fool is the first card in the deck represented by the number zero and as you increase each card by one he meets different characters and encounters different obstacles within his life until he finally gets to the end and is able to experience the totality of the world. I'd say that the major arcana in this case is far more likely to represent the traveler, but again that's my opinion.
@@Ashikai you are so true for that - that’s why I put it in quotations haha - I just thought it was interesting how it could *maybe* be indicative of the crown artifact, seeing as tarot is steeped in spirituality it could have something to do with the crown chakra.?? Which has a lot to do with matters of the spirit and the mind and less so with real life? But I’m not sure if miHoYo went that far into it all. It’s possible though! A fifth artifact was included and they did say it was based on tarot so it was just my theory!! And I just noticed how a lot of the descriptions of circlet artifacts have to do with expression of emotion/obscuring sight which is interesting.. I wonder why that is.. As for the story following the traveler that’s such a cool comparison I love that theory… I love all your analysis, theories, and opinions so much!! Your content is something I always look forward to!! and that’s so cool to hear your background with tarot and everything I have so much respect for that !!
What if “seven nations” in the Vishap-era refers to “seven elements” that they ruled over, and when the primordial one took over and “the seven nations submitted to the heavens” it actually means that the primordial could manipulate the elements at will and that’s why they were able to re-create the world (terraforming, basically) and then create life, with the help of the shade(s). Just something I got stuck on with the mention of nations seemingly before the world had any major civilisations to speak of.
Watching your videos reminds me of the episode of hunterxhunter when gon and Killua learn that artists unknowingly imbued their creations with Nen through genuine effort and it’s what separates great works of art and counterfeit. Ur vids got a lotta nen and im excited to experience it :)
i think phaenus being a shade of the primordial one makes much more sense. It's like a Father, Son, Holy Spirit, situation where they're all the same "energy" just portrayed in different entities. So the shades WOULD BE the primordial one just in a different light.
Venti also guides at least Mondstadtian Souls to the Afterlife, so he could have the Death Powers of Istaroth. Btw. In the German Tl the Artifacts are Life, Death, Time, Void and Reason(ing)
About what you said of the artifacts lore, I only can talk about the artifact of emblem of severed fate bc i have memorized its lore haha. It kinda matches your interpretation, it's crazy! Flower (origins): It talks about how Teruyo gave Iwakura his new name, erasing his past. It's also when they agree to have the first match of those 13 years Plume (things that have been said): Iwakura finally won. He almost killed teruyo. This is when teruyo told him her last words before disappearing, she told him to forget about her. Iwakura couldnt tell her that he wanted to fight another year. Sands (events that actually happened): this one is interesting. It's narrated in first person by Hibiki. She is talking to Takamine and sharing facts about each other, one of them: their bet before his death. Goblet (emotions): this one is quite sad. Iwakura is now Doukei, an instructor in the Kujou family. He came back to the little shrine where he fought Teruyo for 13 years. He never met her again since he won. And that's it! It kind of matches the themes!!
Guess who's camping 7 hours is the amount of time I spend on genshin, so when I'm done I can immediately watch this ahaha eyyyy just in time!!! Just finished up playing with friends and retired to bed (and teapot) ehehehe awwww heck yeaaahhh EGG!!!! just finished it ehehe
Suddenly I have a thought... WHAT IF well you said the moon sisters may be the other 3 shades. So far we only have 2 confirmed ancient kingdom in teyvat. Sal Vindagnyr and the other one in Tsurumi Island. what if the three sister is tasked with guiding each kingdom with seelies? Oh I forgot to add Enkanomiya. Since Istaroth gave Abrax the wisdom to create Helios. It may be the third ancient kingdom. Thus when the second throne came, they destroy the three kingdoms which received direct guidance from the shades of the primodial one to erase the history of the first throne. (I'm assuming that the second one wins) and well, since the moon sisters somehow died remaining only one 'corpse' left, thus we have several ancient kingdom. Also, maybe the floating island, where it's called celestia is indeed the place where moon sisters and seelies resides. Which we see in every ancient kingdoms (idk about enka tho haven't finished exploring that one) and then, be made to imprison the seelIes who somehow shrunk in size because their memories is drifting away. Some that we see in teyvat may be those who escaped when the disaster happened. Which is why in the manga we saw that the interior of celestia looked like a prison. This is just a thought that came to me suddenly, please keep that in mind xD
By "nations" the book might not necessarily be referring to the modern Teyvatian ones. I think it may be referring to the elements. For example there are creatures that are formed from pure elemental power. What if those beings were not created by the first throne, but submitted to it instead? The word "nation" is pretty flexible. In day to day use, we use it synonymously with "state." But that isn't the only thing "nation" refers to. It also means a group of people with a distinct culture, genetics and/or identity. With this in mind, it's possible that geographical areas like Mondstadt or Liyue are not "nations" that are being spoken about.
So a possibility I just thought of. I don’t know if you’ve considered this before or not. But is it possible humanity didn’t originate or be created in Teyvat. Instead humans lived somewhere else, a different planet and where relocated into teyvat and the terraforming of teyvat was them filling it with the seeds of their original world. They left a dying world (flooded earth in Noah’s Ark) to new fertile lands that was teyvat.
Some Honkai players do speculate this. In short, there is a project in HI story called Project: Ark which basically sending satellite/probe/spaceships to find a habitable world for human, because their original planet is kinda in a brink of calamity by very powerful entity. The spaceship contains complete information of human genome, an AI to control & monitor the spaceship and it is also speculated to contain a human as a person in charge of that project.
The Crown could be connected to the Major Arcana. Incidentally, one interpretation of the major arcana is the Hero's Journey, the cyclical monomyth narrative...
Seelies come in different flavours (i.e. anemo, pyro, and electro currently) so its possible that the seelies were divided into 7 nations and they died and now just their remnants are left.
THIS LEFT ME COMPLETELY SPEECHLESS omg.... if istaroth is infact related to the death artifact rather then the time sands artifacts and is one of the moons, and instead of the the god of time as in everything under time but rather the moments (and i do remember maybe in the book before sun and moon was istaroth referred to as EVERY moment) then alot of things relate straight back to venti... (i relate everything back to venti but anywho), when venti 'fixed' the holy lyre, he basically just 'fixed it for a moment' , and venti also has quite alot of moon and death motifs, considering the theme played specifically at night in mondstadt is called 'dream aria' and his skin is also called skyward 'sonnet' (which im pretty sure aria is connected to the moon, as sonnet and aria, which are also considered forms of song and music, anddd venti is a bard,, and also dream and sleep in some way) which when you think of it, venti indeed spends quite a bit of his time in slumber??? and also, in ventis story quest he seems to relieve stanleys soul, basically freeing him from the world, which got a lot of people thinking he may be related to death, and also how freedom is connected to death in some way (which would also make sense if istaroth represents the death artifact and moments, considering life is just a moment of time) oh and also, istaroth is only seen in moments of history, for example when she was worshipped with barbatos, it was only for a moment before she got forgotten in time
If one of the shades is the god of time does that mean Raiden Ei and Raiden Makoto are their descendants cause Ei is the god of Eternity and Raiden makoto I guess is the God of the Moment and both moment and eternity are part of Time Edit found out more During ei’s story quest the name istaroth (forgot how to spell it) was shown above Ei’s dialogue when talking to yea, I have a feeling it was relating to the god of time)
I don't think they're that directly related. Every archon holds an ideal, and for electro, that ideal is Eternity just like how geo values Contracts and wind values Freedom. I do think that the Raidens KNOW Istaroth, but idk that they're family.
So we have: 4 shades (time, space, light, dark) and the primordial one. I've always thought that Venti and Paimon's teasing each other viciously was kinda suspicious. Also, like with Zhongli, I believe Venti is hiding a lot more information than it seems. Could the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles be the shade representing space? Then, it is also possible that Venti and Paimon together represent the shade of Time. Venti being often depicted with the God of time, could that be Paimon (she just lost her memory) and together they make 1 shade? Also, I find it so strange that we fished her out of the sea and yet she doesn't mention going back to her family or home at all. Is she truly an amnesiac or simply running away from her responsibilities? I think Mondstadt being the first nation we visit is gonna have huge lore implications in later patches. By the way, I love your theory crafting videos and the comments section always has me teeming with ideas! 🤔
I've said it as a joke once but the Primordial One in Genshin might as well be Welt from Honkai. Also don't be surprised if their next game Star Rails may have events that leads up to the creation of Genshin.
I thought here: maybe historians called the 7 nations pre the primordial one because they were 7 places where the 7 strongest vishaps of each element dominated. 🦋
Thank you for another amazing video! They're always so well researched and informative! (Oh and when you mentioned the second who came after the peimordial one it reminded me of the battlepass story where one of the heirs is corrupted while on their mission so a second heir is sent and stuff)
I think paimon is one of the moon sisters, though I’m not exactly sure how to word why. It just makes sense to me with context of a bunch of theories and lore bits and things lol
As a casual player who doesn’t do a lot of reading of the books from the game; I absolutely love your theories! They’re so well crafted and you break them down so perfectly; the editing is phenomenal and your wording is chef kiss precise!! I look forward to your next videos!!
now now ashikai, how am i supposed to sleep when u plant so many ideas in my head? ill take a week to digest this vid. fabulous research as always! as a previous student in a classical gymnasium, these videos are like you pulling all my old knowledge of greek and roman civilisations and making them make sense in this context! thank you for ordering my brain hahaha
Genshin Impact's Story is what got me hooked on to the game after a story summary for Mondstadt, then I've been playing for: 1. MAIN Story 2. Characters 3. Character stories
Wow this is a very different take on it all. I’m surprised because I would have never thought of that on my own. Very impressive. Venti being the reincarnation of the Primordial One would be even more impressive. I wanna hear your thoughts on the rest of the topics in the book.
Ahhhh! Just when I think I've finally figured some stuff out you come out with a video that gives me loads of content to think about! Love your videos Ashikai! Keep up the awesome work!!
i got recomended ur channel recently and am watching the old videos and ur hypothesis are always getting confirmed, you are really into the right wayyy 👁👄👁
As a history and mythology nerd, who is also planning to collect and read the classic sources (i.e. Theogony, Metamorphoses, Poetic Edda, etc.), this in-depth analysis on the various inspirations and easter eggs that are present in Genshin Impact was quite a surprise. Your video presentation, humor and editing have made me learn a few new things, specifically the existence of Orphism. I've quite enjoyed binging through your videos so I think the obvious thing to do is subscribe
This video is the one that making my head explode more than all the previous theory/lore video. Amazing how much things were foreshadowed, linked, and even have so many references to mythology. Amazing video thank so much for this love your channel
Wow can’t believe you brought back the discussion of the pale princess and the 6 pygmies! I almost forgot about that but it works so well with everything! What a great memory!
So would that mean that there's only 2 shades that are working right now? Susty one of the moon sisters and Phanes the sun, we all know you can't really kill some gods you can only diminish them just like what happened to Gouba so paimon possibly being Ishtaroth sounds pretty likely and if she was one of the moon sisters and she happened to fall from her guard post for whatever reason, that would explain why there's only 1 moon now and not 3, not sure what happened to the other moon sister though.
Paimon fits well as God of Moment. She only pause our time when we open menu, momentarily. And even though she could forward day/night time, it's only our local "time" and not server time. Which is why we only skip in day(s), not even week or month.
These talks about thrones coming from elsewhere is actually bringing me a theory about the traveler/the siblings : are we destined to become the third throne ? With either choosing to follow that destiny or fighting against it ? It would kinda make sense with the Travail trailer...
Soooo, I'm going through all the new content now in 2.5 and every single time a hint of lore is dropped, all I can think about is "okay, now I need Ashikai's thoughts on this! this is huge!"
Part 2 just in time for the _Enkanomiya - Electric Boogaloo_ hype! Yay! Part 3 after 2.5? :D (I will consider this video an early birthday present, as it goes through pretty much all of my concerns with *Before Sun and Moon* and my _Solar Return_ is just around the corner! So~ thanks!)
Love all this! I'm glad you mentioned the old Lisa quest and the weird connections that I mentioned in a comment after the last video, but I hadn't ever thought about there being connections to the moon sisters, that makes a lot of sense!
I remember reading in the Genshin WEBTOON that venti meantions names like ymir,pangu, and purusha. He calls them the primordial ones. Could they be the names of the other shades?
I don't know why, but the line, "In Teyvat, the stars in the sky will always have a place for you." always makes me think of Istaroth and the way she preserves stories and very specifically people as Sinshades if they have gained her favour. Then there's the "Seeds of stories, brought by the wind" line, and the way that the people of Teyvat have this whole gaining Visions as a result of being favoured by the gods thing going, and how it is their constellations that determine the shape their powers take and the fact that constellations have long since been used as a method of recording stories - all of this makes me think that Istaroth is related to the stars rather than being one of the moons. Technically, at the distance that stars are, they are pretty much the space equivalent in the canvas of the night of what moments are to time. Mapping all the shinies in the sky to the Shades, I would then say that Phanes relates to the Sun, 3 of the Shades relate to the 3 Moons, and Istaroth relates to the Stars - regardless of whether Phanes created the rest or not, I would still maintain that they are superior to the other 4 just in the same way that the Sun overpowers all other Celestial Bodies when in the sky. One thread entangled into all of this is Paimon's obsession (lightly) with the rule of Threes in the Tsurumi Questline, specifically the way she insists that it should actually be the rule of Fours (since success is at the 4th attempt rather than after 3 tries). This lines up suspiciously with a few triads that should *actually* be tetrads; the Rhetorical Appeals (of which Kairos is excluded) and the Seasons (of which Winter is excluded - though you'll find it included on Mondstadt's Wind Blessed Harpastum's design) - I am certain there are more of these. One more interesting thing to note is the platform upon which Aberaku stands after his quest is completed; it is triangular with the central, *inverted* triangle missing, a sort of physical representation of the 4th-excluded Triad. Not to mention, if you overlaid Paimon's upside down Triquetra with any other Triquetra, you would get a Quadruple knot, and of course there's Kaeya, who gains a 4th icicle with C6 to complete his own Tetrad. I do also feel like the existence of 5 entities is quite important when considering the 5 classical elements - especially now that Void has been confirmed as an element in Teyvat. Since Istaroth is a multi-domain Goddess, it wouldn't be out of the realm that the others would also be rulers over one each of the remaining classical elements and their respective concepts.
Really enjoying the lore videos! You have achieved the perfect blend of making informative yet entertaining videos. Also love how clean and simple the editing in your videos is!
I don't know if anyone has covered this but I genuinely think that Paimon is a seelie and I have never heard a theory on it before but I don't do a ton of research so idk if other people have talked about it. I just needed an excuse to say that and when I heard the word seelie I immediately thought about Paimon so that's why I'm talking about it.
I just had a random idea. You know that in the initial description of the Traveler there is a passage about them ascending? What if they're supposed to become a THIRD Throne of the Heavens and change the world somehow, and that passages is like a foreshadowing for that? I don't really want to go full "Genshin is a sci-fi story", but if I thought about Primordial One as an Alien, and assumed that he didn't create anybody and just woke people up, because how would the scribe even know what their gods are doing? It is like very common that scribes are wrong and assume things. Anyway, separating the "earth from the rest of the universe" using an "eggshell" sounds kinda like... sheltering a whole planet from the rest of space, creating a fake bubble around it like an eggshell, which probably needs to be destroyed if they ever want to rejoin the rest of the universe. It also may be related to artificial sky. The whole sci-fi ideas get even stronger when I think about Primordial One "opening" an Ark, not creating humans. As if he already HAD humans, which he wanted to unleash on the world. Doesn't is sound like some space refugees with one Captain trying to find a new home for his hibernated people whose original world was destroyed to you? It sounds. I don't say he couldn't create humans. I just say that he may have an entire Ark of sleeping DNA samples to make babies which he then woke up and populated the world with in addition to creating more of them by using space in-vintro/cloning technology or whatever xD In this sense sheltering the earth is like creating a safe space for his people to live without having to fear whatever destroyed their original world. But then the Second Throne came, lol. It sounds crazy, but sci-fi elements just kinda hit me in the face every time. Why... why are you doing this to me and put Paimon next to image of Phanes. Do you want me to go crazy? To go bald? I am already filled with all the ideas who Paimon can be, and the only idea I can stick to without going crazy is "she is some kind of original god, one of a few in particular, considering she shares looks with a few other deities in Genshin". And her cape looks as if it included 3 moons imagery, and she is all heavenly like the loading screen, and has a crown for some reason, and this game will kill me one day I swear. Later the whole eggshell sounds like "separating the realm of gods from the realm of mortals" and less than "we will now hide the planet from the rest of universe" xD Like, going with the fake sky analogy, the realm of heavens (loading screen?) would be above the fake sky. How did I predict that Three Moon Goddesses were another Three Shades BEFORE you actually stated that in the video? (Great minds think alike, lol) It also aligns up with Paimon's whole ekhm... aesthetic, as she is similar to them in her appearance. Ok, now I dunno if you pairing Paimon and Phanes was supposed to mean she is Phanes, or she is Ishtaroth/Kairos, one of three sisters. It gets confusing, don't do this to me xD Moons related to Heavenly Principles will maybe finally kill the theory that "Sustainer is Paimon" which I personally hate with PASSION. Oh, thanks, I was recently wondering what is the theory about time coming from in our world. I was guessing that it is related to Earth's rotation time around the Sun, but Moon being a common tool used to specify time is also plausible. Hell, if I looked more into it, I would probably find some explanation that both are actually viable time descriptors, because of the position and movement of our moon in relation to Earth speed-rate and our general orbit time around the sun due to being a 3rd planet. You know, all the sciencey stuff. Time was calculated by the Moons, but also we used sun clocks and sand clocks to measure time and time is so complicated OMG. So yeah, all are the factors I bet in science, gotta check. Susty being a Shade also explains the relation to Paimon better than "they're one and the same being". Like... they're siblings, ok? They're related. Primordial One liked white hair, ok? xD She may be one of the Moon Sisters, but I wonder how then the whole story of them being dead and "one leaving the body behind" factors in it. Like, is it true, or is it just a common folk idea why they suddenly have only one dead body/moon instead of three. The typical "people of the earth make up stories to explain why the world around them changed but are wildly off the mark with the truth". You know what is funny? That Dragon Lords and Vishaps being the ORIGINAL race of the planet actually makes sense with the whole leyline thing... as leylines are VERY COMMON trope in A LOT of anime and are also called Ryūmyaku or "Dragon Veins" in a lot of English translations (like in one of Pokemon Movies) or Dragon Pulse (Gintama translation). It fits the whole theme of dragons and elemental powers being interconnected. I also found some ideas that Azhdaha could be one of the original Dragon Lords - the Dragon Lord of The Earth, and it is not really that off the mark if we consider that Zhongli merely created his new body and not a spirit, because spirit was in the Earth and was sad and lonely and trapped. Poor little thing, sniff. I don't know how old exactly is Dvalin, but if he is on the young side, it may mean he is a reincarnation of the original Dragon Lord of The Wind, further tying the Dragons as a race to elemental energies, because he is said to be born from "convergence of elemental energy". (And because I love dragons now Primordial One is on my shit list for attacking all of them to subdue the world for his people). Also... what if Erosion is a form of sickness which comes from and is caused by the sucking off the elemental energy from the world? The Primordial One who may have created the Heavens was an invader, so it would not be off the mark if the Heavens he may have created were sustained via sucking up elemental energy from the world, causing Erosion to beings who rely on it? (It would also somehow tie up the elemental energy, memories and souls together, which we know are tied to each other via leylines, irminsul trees, irminsul fruits and the such - it wouldn't be far off the mark to say that soul may be made from elemental energy itself). The very fact that Heavenly Principles which are said to impose Erosion on the world as a form of "natural order" being referred to as the "truth of this world" makes me suspicious of Celestia, because truths like that are usually ugly in nature. It may mean that Heavens are just a parasite, leeching the power from this world. Just food for thoughts. This video is super cool, by the way: th-cam.com/video/Nnvy8aBOnsU/w-d-xo.html
Interesting! After reading what you said, I had some thoughts about the moon sisters. That legend of the three moon sisters is really cryptic to be honest so I think it might not be 100% literal. I could imagine that, rather than the three sisters literally *being* a moon each, maybe the moon we see currently in the sky is the actual vehicle they used to go across the sky? I mean the moon there still does go around the earth even with apparently all the sisters being "dead" in the story. If that moon really was the dead body of one of the sisters why would it still go around like normal? If it was just the vehicle it could simply be used by someone else now. To be fair the line that says that they have to switch places or something bad will happen is quite vague. We don't know why they had to switch places/why something bad will happen and why that apparently isn't a problem now that the sisters are "dead". Since in the game "gods never really die" it would make sense that the moon sisters are still alive despite what the legend about them said. If we assume that Susty is one of the three sisters then it would seem indeed possible that Paimon might be one too simply because of the fact that they have connections design wise. I do agree btw. I don't like the theory that Paimon is the sustainer itself either LOL However, I also can't really completely settle with the theory that Paimon is Istaroth though....For one I can't see the ties to the wind with Paimon other than that she can fly (Susty can too and only Kairos/Istaroth was specifically mentioned to have ties with the wind) and that we found her in/near Mondstadt. Main reason is though that she is always so serious about the fact that her name is Paimon. If the moon in the sky isn't a sister but a vehicle or something like that, then it would be possible that Paimon, Susty and Kairos/Istaroth are the three sisters but I just wonder about Paimons name....why would Paimon have another Ars Goetia demon name? Another thing that would tie into this that I wonder about would be the that I assumed that Susty has ties with Celestia? I mean Paimon MUST have ties with Celestia based on her looks. But Celestia seemingly only came after the first throne (like Ashikai said, Celestia is perhaps the second throne that came). At that time the moons sisters must have been already present since they coexisted with the seelie that were created to guide humanity in the beginning, so if Susty was one of the sisters she must have been around before Celestia came? That kinda makes no sense to me though... I think Kairos/Istaroth being one of the three sisters would makesense but I can't really wrap my head around Susty or even Paimon being one of them yet.
@@vm1562 I for the longest time didn't know, and I still don't know how Paimon is connected to all of this. But I know for a fact that whoever the three sisters were, they may not have been the only gods that existed (just think about Omnipresent God, who may or may not be one of the Sisters, but may also be a separate deity). So Paimon could be just... dunno... related somehow, but not be one of the Sisters. Ashikai also paired Paimon's image with Phane, so that actually speaks to me more? Like a creation deity related to Three Sisters kinda thing. About her name... I dunno, but maybe it is not the original name, and she just insists on this one, because it is one she gave herself or was given at some point? Maybe there was something which made the previous pantheon of gods be forced to serve the second one? Or maybe Paimon is just a reincarnation of one of the previous gods, but because she doesn't remember, she was swept by Celestia and put in charge of something? Dunno. Paimon has too many similarities with loading screen to not be related, but as long as we do not get the exact history behind Paimon and Sustainer we cannot really say how much they're related to it, why and what exactly happened. Sustainer design definitely doesn't scream Celestia Pillar to me, she looks more alien to me? (And she has the cape. Like... it looks like Abyss Cape, which Tartaglia sports in his Third Transformation - just red one). As if she was some weird crossover between Honkai and Genshin typical aesthetic. It may also be that the Heavens always existed, and the First throne just took possession of the empty sit, and then celestial came. We dunno what designs First Throne followed, unless we assume Enkanomiya's design resembles their design. No matter, what I wanted to say is that it is a common trope that when one civilization of immortal powerful beings gets usurped by another, the second one takes all the stuff the first had. So y'know, complicated. We need more data. I am rolling with assumptions. And my only firm assumption is that Paimon is not just a mere floating fairy, she is important and related to pre-Archon gods. Paimon may not be her real name.
So... many words. My non-native English speaker brain needs some rest. It's always a pleasure watching your videos though, and thanks for bringing me back to the time (*wink wink*) when I was completely obsessed with Greek mythology.
So your mention of the Crown of Logos as potentially being related to the Primordial One/relating to the word of god etc made me think about those 4-star circlet only sets that you can get from the world bosses. Like…the Rite of Frost set (I think that’s one of them). And they all talk about some secret, priests, some disaster long ago, a pile of crowns at the foot of an ancient white tree, cycles… I can’t put my finger on it, but that feels. Important. Very Important and Relevant.
!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the video!!! It's very insightful, and it made me think for a bit. From all my thinking in Genshin, I come across *4 weird entities that possibly have powers beyond the 7 elements* , the first three also coincidentally having the same general aesthetic around them. I tried connecting my already existing theories with the ones in the video: *1. Dainslief = Flower of Life* - A Khaenriahn who is pro-humanity, in a nation who is prolific with the Art of Khemia, which is essentially the artificial creation of life. Seems fitting for him to be guarding it I think. And i'd like to think that the Ouroboros connections to him are fitting now, since he is technically experiencing corruption - He is self-destructing. *2. Signora = Plume of Death (but not quite)* - We don't really know why signora has her powers, or how she got it, but she is very violent and very forward-facing with her issues, dealing with it personally. I suggest that Signora has gotten a forbidden power of a moon goddess that crumbled. Coincidentally, she's a Mondstadter, from the land of Air. Also, with a funerary aesthetic, solidifying "Death". Moths are also Associated with moons. *3. Sustainer = Sands of Eons* - We know her as someone who controls time, so her being a moon goddess as well as being a goddess of time makes sense. She is the only one in "Celestia", at least if she came from there. Also from the CN translation's stand-point, i think calling it the time piece is reasonable in a sense that she's the only one left of the three, presumably. *4. Paimon = Goblets of Eonothem (suppressed)* - The goblet that can provide us elemental energy which can let the wearer who doesn't even use that elemental power to have it regardless? Very Paimon with our visions. Also, we found Paimon underwater, connecting to the cup and water theme of the cards. Also space cape aesthetic, homing to the Goblet of Space CN translation. I base this theory just through *simple design choices* that Mihoyo chose: *Black Stars* - A hair piece for Paimon, Multiple on Signora's neck and chest area Intertwining Appliques - Sustainer and Dainsleif's chest, Signora's back cape. *White hair* - Signora, Sustainer, Paimon *Celestial Cape Underside*- Signora is the only one who doesn't have this, which may be because she is mortal/not the true moon goddess. Coincidentally too, *Dainsleif and Albedo are both blonds with blue eyes* . Albedo is a part of the primordial human project, which makes me think *what if Dainslief is actually the Circlet, and Albedo possibly the Flower?* 1. Dainslief in the travail trailer makes it sound like he's the last boss out of everything: "Defeat me, command me to step aside, show me that you are worthier than I to rescue her". For a game named Primordial God Impact, it seems reasonable for the final boss to be the Primordial God itself right? The unknown god might just be a red herring, which is why we're going to Khaenriah as the last act because we had a realization. Dainsleif being the Primordial one makes more sense if Albedo is Phanes, too. Since Dainsleif said before that he *will* intervene if Albedo has made a fatal error. He is in charge of his shade. 2. Albedo already has the flower aesthetic and already understands life and creation very well. Makes his not being a failed experiment come into full circle. Albedo is also (subjectically) androgynous in nature, as you mentioned in the video is a description of Phanes. Coincidentally too, Albedo is one of the few things in the game that references the sun. Also, It seems just very fitting for Mihoyo to introduce everyone in the first parts of the story, similarly to how Kiana was introduced in Honkai, to later be known as a Herrscherr. I always thought of Signora as a waste, and I feel like Mihoyo will come around to her eventually, but maybe not as Rosalyne, but as another person altogether.
im watching this video after i got done with eis new story quest and i cant believe they mention that makoto got help from istaroth! Cant wait to see your options on that!!! :)
I haven't had the time to really watch this video until today. I have noticed something cool today, however. In Zhongli's voicelines about Xiao, he asks the Traveller to make sure that paimon does not eat the medicine that he was sending for Xiao, giving the reasoning "Nothing of this world can survive that medicine" or something along the lines. Considering it's Zhongli, maybe there is something about Paimon that he knows (for example Paimon being a moon sister and one of the supposed gods of time, being one of the shades of the primordial one). Also another thing, what if susty is the moon sister who stays in the sky currently? We more or less know that Istaroth was present in Enkanomiya, with the existence of shades of Tokoyo. Makoto seemed to know Istaroth as well (no shit) since she took Istaroth's help for the Sacred Sakura. I propose that all the archons (atleast the original seven) knew the moon sisters or the shades of the primordial ones. With this, we have three (assumption ofc) moon sisters, paimon,istaroth and susty. We know from the book that the primordial one sealed the way back upto the surface for Enkanomiya. My question is, would the Primordial one not know of one of its own shades being there? To me it seems like he sealed Enkanomiya on purpose, maybe because the Primordial one wanted to seal Istaroth? What with Istaroth's assosciation with one of the original seven and Celestia being the supposed second throne and the Archons being under Celestia, was Istaroth per chance deemed a traitor of sorts? That's my after thoughts on the video and I absolutely loved the video!
8:00 i dont think the 7 nations refers to the 7 nations we know today or at least not quite. I guess they just came into being the same way as in that they formed around each of the 7 sovreigns. Then, much later, when the 7 archons were formed, each of them got a gnosis and the nations reformed around them. I do think the 7 original sovreigns are connected to why there are 7 archons, but i think the 7 nations refered to back then may not have been the ones we know today. Or maybe they are i dont know. Edit: also 1 thing i want to know: did you google a video where someone underlines the word arc with a pencil, or did you record that yourself?
I also have a theory that the 3 shades could be the 3 gods venti thought of when he had that bad flashback. They had cloaks on that could have possibly be used to mask their “shimmering” or godly presence. Or because they were left to wander the world after having served their purpose. I also feel like this tracks better than them becoming the 3 moons for 2 reasons, 1. They had human like forms and because the other shade created (don’t know how to spell their name) had a human-esc name it could mean that they were also similar to humans at least enough to take a human like form 2. Because the creator shade was also androgynous I just can’t picture them not being so as well, and the 3 moons were very clearly depicted as female. Though another speculation, I’d love to hear other input as well!
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**VIDEO NOTES AND CORRECTIONS**
- Ok, apparently "logos" does mean "reason/logic" in Greek which is news to me. I'm only familiar with "logos" as "divine logic." So that's a thing. :P
- Naokarma has pointed out that "Ethos, Pathos, Logos, and Kairos" make up something called the "Rhetorical Appeals." I had never heard of this up until now so I can't add much insight beyond, "this is worth looking into more."
- The Major Arcana is NOT a suit. The Major Arcana plays a very different role in the tarot than the suits of the minor arcana. Originally there WAS NO Major Arcana, and that's why you can do proper Tarot readings using a normal deck of playing cards. They share the same roots. (Hearts for cups, spades for swords, diamonds for pentacles, and clubs for wands). In addition, the Major Arcana tells the story of the Fool's Journey. Every card in the Majors represents either a person, obstacle or event he encounters throughout his life, eventually coming to rest at the final card, the World, as he reaches enlightenment. As such, the Majors in a tarot reading only really talk about spiritual growth or big shifts in ones life. This is why I don't consider them to represent the Primordial One. If anything, they fit the Traveler more.
I was curious about the idea of the stories told by the artifacts being connected to the type of the tarot suit it represents and so far from studying a few of the artifacts sets in my opinion the goblet and the sands are actually reversed as goblets make references to mora, treasure while sands make more often reference to a feeling or a virtue. So the suit of pentacles and cups would swap which artifact would refer to. At least in my opinion. But I will look to more sets and will see how this idea holds up. Awesome video by the way! I always love your content!❤
If I’m not mistaken, Logos can also refer to “The Son” in Christianity, or Jesus Christ
Ethos, Pathos, Logos, and Kairos are the main means of persuasion. Kinda surprised you hadn't had this stuff drilled into your head in highschool, tbh. Mine spent like at least a weak on it in every English class I had. Then again, my school was a little odd, so I shouldn't compare it to what's normal/standard.
Either way, I felt it was worth pointing out given the use of the word/name Kairos, at least. It's not really used in a different way than the original meaning too much, though.
@@Naokarma teyvat has its own "laws." maybe those are the laws. could explain susstys behavior
@@Naokarma Oh! I never learned that in school. But then again, my schooling wasn't conventional either. I went to a different school every year so my lessons weren't consistent. They're called the Rhetorical Appeals, huh? Interesting. I'll have to look them up (And I'm gonna add it to the pinned comment cuz I think it's a neat thing). Thanks for pointing that out!
I just find it so funny how venti “Fixed” the holy lyre for a time but emphasizes that the fix wont hold forever, you could say he fixed it for “A moment”
Man, Ishtaroth/Kairos sounds like she might also be Paimon. Fell into the sea and survived? Hm, we resued Paimon from "drowning" off the coast. What if she wasn't drowning as much as she was floating back up to the surface? Paimon also knows a lot, and is the self appointed travel guide. When she isn't in her pocket dimension she's floating around us with a cape that has a space motif and constellations that pop in/out of existance with her and her pocket dimension. She was encountered in/Associated with Mondstat, the land of wind and time, and we seem to have gained some sort of small time control with her.
Nah nah she shits constellations
Completely obsessed
Do you remember the very small island with a sundial in the middle of the sea in starsnatch cliff (i think), the one that's not on the map? The game starts with the traveller sitting on the beach facing that mysterious sundial island so maybe that's where they found paimon, and that sundial is associated with time and wind too
She is also the menu. You know, the thing that allows us to freeze time. She literally controls moments.
I remember the theory that Paimon is one of the moon goddesses being on this channel a few months ago. The fact that the evidence can point towards the three being 3 of the 4 shades supports this. I'm not convinced that Paimon is Kairos herself, but maybe a product of her, in a sense. An epithet of Kairos, if you will?
I have no idea how Mhy is able to pull inspiration from so many sources, implement it into so many aspects in Genshin and still make it make sense
20:36 revisiting this video after having read the Chasm artifact's lore. And wow, you might be right, the sun was also driven by a chariot, and after some disaster it crashed into the plains west of Liyue, creating the Chasm (Zhongli was very young at this time so we can estimate this to be approximately 6000 years ago). This meteor was described to have a "proud and agitated temper", and that it leapt back to the heavens presumably during the Archon War
Having seen their previous games....practice lots and lots of practice.
I'll say genshin storyline team is very good at compressing events that's why it's so we'll connected even tho sometimes it doesn't make sense
@@cosmicpegasus9697 it doesn't make sense because they are not making a good job executing it. Idk what copium you all inhaled but the Genshin lore is so convoluted nobody actually understand what's happening. The quest are boring af. They get these inspiration and references from a lot of culture and mythology without simplifying anything and makes the story complicated and hard to follow. If you think the game has the best storytelling then i pity your definition of "good storytelling". I advice watch media that actually has good stories in it so y'all could have better judgement.
@@Vizible21 well I only meant to the point on managing to connect the events that's all and as I said sometimes doesn't make sense because considering they take inspiration from mythology and culture but they don't a good job of explaining everything as in story telling important part is to explain every situation like vision hunt decree was due to fatui and that's all? I mean rn nothing makes sense as game hasn't yet came to a point where everything makes sense overall it's just for player satisfaction at this point ☝️
Something I've come to expect is that I don't think all of the "inspiration" was actually intentional, but rather come from common sources. Essentially you can draw parallels between many different mythologies. With these parallels, you can have something that was actually inspired by only one of them, but it can appear inspired by the others just because of those shared elements. In this case, it would still be accurate to say that the elements are related to those other stories, but not actually directly inspired by them.
Regarding the storytelling in Genshin, it is definitely not the greatest, but I think it's adequate. The worldbuilding on the other hand I personally find to be rather interesting to dive into, especially since more information is delivered slowly across several updates allowing it to recontextualize earlier information to present a completely new meaning. We can make these kinds of predictions, and unlike with a finished work where none of the predictions can be confirmed from that point on without sequels and spin-offs and such, with Genshin there's actually some hope that the questions we have might be answered in future releases.
This is why i like learning about history and different cultures and seeing this game pull different lore form history culture and this is why i want to see the full story of this game.
It’s nice because it both connects to things I already know and gives me new things to research
If you can only understand the lore of the game just by researching about the inspiration they were taken and only understand them based off of that then they didn't do a good job of it. Inspiration from different culture is cool and all but the execution tho?
@@Vizible21 the game is barely 1 year old. People said that Raiden's story was bad and had a lot of plotholes, when now with the second story quest, most of the loose threads were tied up and properly explained. So I say give it time, because if you've ever played mihoyo's other game honkai, they do make things intentionally vague in the beginning but I do believe there will be payoff.
@@Vizible21 I think this is where the concepts of world building versus storytelling probably comes in. The genshin world building is vast and incredibly detailed but some of the storytelling (especially in chapter 2) wasn't executed as well as it could be. I'm hoping mihoyo picks up the ball with that and though I'm not holding my breath, I'm hoping it includes more voiced traveler so they can feel more like they're a part of the story
@@Vizible21 how are you going to judge the execution of an incomplete story?
Some notes from the Chinese version:
*Herrscher of the Void is actually "Herrscher of Space" in Chinese, as "Space" and "Void" uses the same character "空" as abbreviation.
*"Principle" (as in Heavenly Principles) and “Reason" (Logos) share a similar relationship as above, as both are abbreviated as "理"
*There's a concept, somewhat pervasive in China, but nowhere else, that there actually exist four exalted pillars among the 72 demons of the Ars Goetia, which are Baal, Paimon, Asmodeus, and Astaroth. So far, the possibility that Mihoyo intends to use it cannot be eliminated. It is notable that Istaroth is likely a variant of Astaroth, and the sustainer's beta name is supposedly "Asmoday".
*In "Ode to Azhdaha", it is referred to that Azhdaha's palace reached "Wangshu". Wangshu is a poetic name for the Moon in the Chu tradition, but it actually refers to a god that drove a moon chariot.
That's news to. I've definitely heard of the Four Kings of the Cardinal Directions, but generally their names are Gaap, Amaymon, Corson, and Ziminiar. The variation i could find closest to this was Paymon, Asmodeo, Egion, and Maimon.
Guess there's more investigating to do...
@@Ashikai On the Chinese side there were some digging into the origin of this concept, but so far there's been no dice. It's been speculated that it might have arisen from a translation of an obscure (possibly Japanese) work that ended up sustaining itself through a wikipedia cycle-esque kind of thing where people just copied each others' articles/citations.
Nevertheless, it cannot be fully dismissed as Mihoyo has a tendency to reference popular culture, which this concept has found its way into, ironically somewhat thanks to genshin's usage of the ars goetia.
It's a causation loop.
In the spanish translation Istaroth is named Astaroth so I don't know if it's really a variant or just localization issues 😅
What if venti is one of the seelie people who survived the disaster in the angels's hall. He has a cape that stretches over his knees,just like the seelie cape that leaves enough space for like knees. The top of its head looks like a bumpy hat that looks like it has feathers. And venti can come near seelies and they aren't scared of him. And he holds them in his hands,and a seelie was known to sing to a wolf. And venti REALLY loves song. And the seelies are turquoise and who is associated with turquoise??
*Drumroll* VENTI
I also thought of Venti maybe being related to the Seelie in some way! I'm glad to see someone else considering it too..
Additionally to what you already mentioned,
I wondered if Kairos/Istaroth being the goddess of the thousand winds maybe just means that she was the one who *created* the winds herself and those winds were the Seelie that according to the game were specifically *created* to guide humans. It would fit right? Afterall the Seelie should have been created at roughly that time when Kairos/Istaroth was around. In the game the wind is often brought up with the motif of guiding or leading people so that would fit pretty well too.
In one of the catalysts stories it is said that the winds are shapeless/formless but have some sort of personality because Venti/Barbatos "gave" them one by writing odes for them. It is also said that they were "called by name". This would kind of suggest to me that they at least used to have names at some point (or he named them himself) Venti is known for writing songs to preserve the memory of heros like Vennessa etc. so maybe he did the same for the other winds/seelies that he considers family? (It is said he considers the thousand winds as family and friends). I mean why would he name each single cloud and wind otherwise in dedicated odes and consider them family if they aren't already his family?
Personally, I don't think that they are just anemo-colored for nothing. The game works so much with colors and their elements that it seems odd to me if they just made them look like this without second thought. Also if we look at the Seelie courts (the less broken ones in Enka) then we can see that they had feathers and wings for arms which are definitely associated with wind/anemo and Venti.
Just a thought but I would love that theory to be true because I've been interest in the Seelies story since the beginning (and I like Venti)!
also even though we don't know what seelies really looked like, venti's original form is similar in appearance to the seelie "ghosts" we see all over
and the motifs on the seelie's body look like some kind of music sheet with 3 lines and a symbol
@@cosmicjules tbh it looks like a mini abyss mage to me
Venti: "The pen is mightier than the sword"
Zhongli: Earth - Geo, he is the oldest archon, and has the ability to create subspaces, as an adepti, if I recall he infact TEACHES/blesses adepti this art. Places like an hourglass, without change, like passing the time back and forth.
Those two are good friends right? Hmm...
On another note with all the greek references, the style of helmet in the art of the crown is a Corinthian helmet, Corinth being one of the largest and most important cities of Greece
If you're saying that Venti. Zhongli, and Mako/Ei are shades of the might be moon sisters I'm here for it
This adds more questions to the already mysterious Venti... like VENTI WHAT ARE YOU????
- Ashikai - *reads forbidden book*
- Celestia: Square the F up!
- Ashikai: You can't kill all of us!
*RELEASES NEW VID*
- Celestia: Damn, she smart
This patch cycle has been mostly about Ashikai slowly losing her sanity as far as I'm concerned, and I'm here for it.
... You're not wrong...
The beginning bit on the "world becomes anew" makes it sound more like some level of terraforming. Given that the vishaps kings probably survive the terraforming, might mean that the pre-Primordial One world was not survivable enough for regular life/humans...
I asume 7 "nations" was heavy on one element like Seirei Island.
Given that vishap are fine in any environment this have most sense.
Remember humans can't handle elemental energy almost at all. Simply having noctolucus jade risks the owners life if it's not processed properly due to elemental residue.
The vishaps are creatures native to teyvat (or pre teyvat) so logically their bodies are made for this land. Humans are foreign and even now they haven't evolved to handle elemental energy without divine intervention such as being given a vision.
This woman memorised all of her previous videos as well. Truly a blessing from the primordial one(not phanes bish)
When I first discovered that one of the 4 shades was the god of time, I immediately thought the the other one's would be Death, Life and Space, so, the alternative translation fits better for me (Also, it's a bit strange to have 3 gods of time, unless they are direct related to present, past and future, which does not seem to be the case, but it could be)
Also, I find interesting how it fits well the taffle teory you made a while ago (Like, 5 kings, one of them being the high king, etc)
...OH YEAH lmao
Actually, that's genius, because it still fits with the Gods of Time, Life is a way to mark a passage of time, Death is for when that passage ends and another begins and space obviously being Space-Time. Death can also be transition, a way to change one passage to another
@@nyarlathotep-thecrawlingch6335 Okay, so, logos aside
Were assuming there are 3 gods of time, because there are 3 moon sisters. (I pretty sure there's also 3 rulers/gods of time/fate on Nordic, Greek and Roman mythology to support this) (However one of the artifact types being direct named after time is a bit odd when you think about having 3 gods of time)
So, Time is time, while death and life can be associated with it (Life = Passage of time, present, in-between or beginning and Death = Transition, future or end (Not exactly the end of all, but maybe the end of a cycle))
Having a God of Life is a but odd too, considering the existence of the dendro archon, but I guess dendro is more related to plants? Can't really speculate about with almost no in-game reference to it
You said about the space-time correlation, well, we could also throw space aside, and stick with 3 gods for time (Maybe the 4° one represent space and is the Khaenri'ah moon from we will be reunited?). Space not being one of the moon sisters could also explain why the Unknown God is alive, if she's one of the shades, since it's said that the 3 moon sisters died (Which could be a false info, 2 bodies crumbling away is sus)
@@HDrago The Moon sisters dying isn't a confirmed fact, it's from the perspective of the humans, is it not? So that means they may still be alive, just not in charge of the world anymore except for the Sustainer
so wait, 7 dragon lords? so they could have been turned/transmuted into the 7 gnonsis (hearts) elements of the world! :O
Not directly.
It seems like something the second thrones did, not first one.
Like the essence were kept somewhere, and the second guy found them and turned them against the first one, but in new form
The vishaps do seem to possess elemental abilities, so it's not impossible that the seven lords could've each had some affinity for each of the elements.
I’ve been wondering if the Seven Sovereigns were turned into the Hypostasis Cubes- they growl when defeated.
@@danielm5535 more likely than the gnoses if we look at what kind of alchemy sucrose practices. She transforms living things (p.e. frogs) into those little butterflies she uses in her skill and burst. If you look closely the core of the butterflies are cube shaped. Similarly (as mentioned in the video) the presumed god of space also uses cubes to manipulate space. Therefore it‘s not unlikely that the 7 vishaps were transformed by her or the primordial one into the cube-shaped hypostasis.
Likely the archons and their gnoses do have some connection to the hypostases though because the hypostases seem to reflect the state of the current archon/region in that the anemo, geo and electro hypo show cracks in their design. After sumeru has come out now the dendro hypo has also proven to be unique in how it is defeated by restoring it (through dendro) and getting rid of the cracks.
I think the 7 archons could be the reincarnation of the seven dragons but that seems very unlikely But it sounds like an interesting theory
Although I don’t think it’s likely that Venti is a reincarnation of the Primordial One though…Venti himself did say that he was once one of the Thousand Winds. I thought it was something like the Primordial One creating his 4 shades and one of the 4 shades creating a thousand winds and one of those is Venti. Something like that. This brings me back to the riddle about the Year, Months, Days and how the father is the Year and the daughters are the months. What if the Primordial One and his shades and the thousand winds works kind of like that?
I don't think so. His powers are too limited compared to Primordial One. But I think he knows about him. I think the king from the Gnostic Chorus is the Primordial One and it's told by Venti. The first crowned heir is Istaroth who took care of Enkanomiya (which guess fits the description of the Kingdom of Darkness). Venti knew Istaroth, so he knew about fate of Istaroth after she was "deceived".
Going through this video I had a completely random thought that I thought I’d type out here.
When you mentioned the story of Noah’s arc, and that it was where humanity came from, It got me thinking. In the story of Noah’s ark, Noah, after the flood was over, sent out a dove to find safe land for the surviving humans to rest. If the Project Ark theory does have merit, do you think that the travellers could be a representation of this dove, since they are supposedly looking for a new home? And if that’s the case, is their creator the primordial one? That could potentially tie in with Albedo since the primordial human project was named after said god, and the Traveller & Albedo have a lot of similarities that have yet to be uncovered.
This is probably completely wrong, but it was an interesting idea. Anyways great video Ashikai! Always making me think XD
Oooo the twins as doves! They are "looking for a home" and they have wings! :0
That's so smart!
You just blew my mind. Wow!
But doesn't that mean they would have to have been sent by a greater power to search for a suitable environment 🤔. Imagine the reason they were trapped here was because they risk outside entities finding out a out this world. They risk invasion or out right destruction. They don't want the people to realize they aren't native to this world, if they do people will want to look beyond, but what if they are hiding . Then celestia risk being found. The twins may just be collateral in this situation since they risk exposing teyvat to their masters.
@@dtk1981 now I'm confused. If that was the case, Asmoday would have killed us then and there and there wouldn't be a game lol
@@venti9925 they are looking for a new home. Their presence in teyvat isn't what triggered the heavely principles, it was their desire to leave. Take to mind she chose to strip us of our power and thus our ability to escape. Why she didn't outright kill us, I don't know. They are quick to hit the reset button on nations who pondered the meaning of life a little too long, so it is strange that we weren't clapped right then and there. Even further Raiden was free to eliminate any threat to her divine ideal, which we know is close to the heavely principles. But being an exception to Raidens eternity may not me comparable to being an exception to the heavely principles. For all we know that could have been our saving grace. It's just speculation.
Just a note, Logos translating to logic actually makes a lot of sense because logos usually translates to logic in rhetoric, like in ethos, pathos, and logos.
Great video as always!
[39:13] The Only creatures that I can think of for inhabitants of pre-historic Teyvat would be the inhuman ones who we don't have much explanation for... like the *Tanuki* (and Tengu and Oni) in "Inazuma", *Foxes* _probably_ in "Mondstadt" (as Ioroi points that they weren't originally from "Inazuma"), the *Adepti* (as *Qilin* and such) in "Liyue", the serpent-like things with tridents whose name escapes me, which we suspect lurk(ed) around "Sumeru"... Like, *Before Sun and Moon* doesn't say anything about the creation of non-human creatures, but they do exist! Sus! Like this world was an amalgamation of Demon worlds from many mythos, ruled by elemental Dragons... and the Primordial One decided to live there with his _humans_ cos' reasons.
(Seelie probably don't count, as we assume that they exist / were created to guide humanity _and_ I am still for the E.L.F. theory, lewl~)
I've been wondering, when you defeat an abyss herlad, it says "the abyss shall rise AGAIN"... Again? Like was there an abyss order before the Khaenriah incident that transformed its people? Maybe abyss order existed since the primordial one when Khaenriah /Enkanomiya And teyvat were one people. But then when the primordial one was defeated by probably Celestia who came later, the heads of the abyss order are planning for revenge and had the transformed people to join the abyss order... Maybe?
there is a difference between the Abyss and the Abyss Order, we can assume that the Abyss has always been there (maybe its what the primordial one separated teyvat from with the egg shell), so they may be referencing that?
Now calling them abyss herlads.
I appreciate how the more we learn about Genshin's world the more mihoyo's grand scheme somehow gets simultaneously more murky and yet coherent. i wouldn't be surprised if after all of this we find out that the 'Primordial One' and its shades were people with advanced technology from the Honkai worlds that used technology to recreate the world, and then forbade that exclusive technology from humanity in order to "protect" them from the hershers and honkai, that 'godhood' and the knowledge of technology is exclusive only to 'gods' and therefore they use it to stay in power and that's why they had to destroy khaenriah, and that magic is a type of technology that the abyss are slowly corrupting and they are at war with Celestia for that very reason, perhaps even seeing the honkai as benevolent. my brain hurts from all the possibilities but I must say thank you for another epic lore video - whenever I get the notifs that you've posted another one it just makes my day.
29:00 Something else to add on to this point is that Venti has not only taken on the form of his (dead) friend but he also often tells tales of people from the past aka dead people. He is remembering dead people and helping others remember them as well. This just further solidifies Venti's connection to Istaroth.
Also I think we can draw parallels between the Genesis Pearl with the snake around it to the World Egg and the snake wrapped around it. Both are very similar. Also this Ark probably refers to Teyvat since Teyvat means Ark right? But that wouldn’t make any sense if all this took place on Teyvat itself when we know Teyvat is some type of firmament and not a world.
the whole Teyvat could be a story of Alien cultivated pre-existing planet to make it fit for their survival, and in the process killing the original dominant species
It kinda makes me very sus of Raiden Eis origin now. There are so many things about her that is related to the moon. I suspect that she is the reincarnation of one of the moon sisters who probably died and became twins with Makoto after reincarnation or something. Her past form might actually be like the omnipresent god statue and is probably the Sand of Eon piece since Eon is the largest unit of time, aka very close to eternity. Mihoyo would most likely link their 2 original mcs together in all their games, aka Kiana (the sustainer) and Mei(Raiden). So it makes sense that both of them are the shades of the primordial one. They came into conflict and one of them died. The ending of ggz game was Kiana killing Mei, so the moon sisters killing each other is just mihoyo repeating the same story. Just look at the plane of Euthymia, there is a red moon inside to represent her as one of the moon sisters most likely. And even her charge attack with her spear has the shape of a crescent moon. So in my opinion Raiden Ei is even more sus compared to Venti. But it is possible that Ei forgotten that she is one of the moon sisters, maybe only recalling fragments of the past. Eternity in greek is Aion, and the sands artifact is Eon, which comes from the word Aion.
And Sands is the only piece that can have ER main stat, the most crucial stat for Shogun and her role in a team. Well for most players at least, whales can just hypercarry her, do anything they want, Teyvat's law cant bind those whales 🤣.
The result if the war of the second throne is something I’ve been thinking about for a while. That and the Night Mother are just two lore bits that just hang around in my mind rent-free. I definitely think it’s possible that the second throne won and banned books on the history of Teyvat to cover it up and deceive the people into thinking that the powers above never changed. Celestia was once benevolent but stopped being so after a certain point. I’ve been wondering if the war of the second throne was the turning point.
Also, I wonder if Nix (Nyx?) has any connection to the Night Mother. The name definitely matches
I just love how enka basically confirmed Kokomi to be the human rebirth of one of the Seven Sovereigns, Dragon of Water.
Can't believe this but I might actually skip Miko for Kokomi...
bad news
An hourglass and Death are super related as a persons life is represented as an hourglass, in fact I would say that the hourglass is one of the most recognizable time-related symbols of death.
Quick thing! There is a fifth “suit” In tarot known as the Major Arcana which has the cards like The fool, the Emperor, The tower, things like that. They represent big ideas and… bigger picture things. Rather than the more specific things the main 4 suits get into. I think it’s interesting how that plays into the crown artifact too since that artifact specifically has a big part to play in how your character is built and how they play
That's not really a suit. The major arcana and the minor are, are distinctive between each other because the major arcana actually deals with spiritual and or things that don't technically manifest for real in your daily life. These are things like a spiritual growth or healing from past traumas and things like that. People put far too much stock in the major arcana. The minor arcana are a lot more reliable of a reference and the reason why they have suits is because they're very closely related to the normal deck of playing cards that we use today, with cups being hearts, swords being spades, wands being clubs, and diamonds being pentacles.
To call it its own suit is a bit misleading I think. I say this coming from a long line of professional card readers on my father's side. I still have family members who do this as their full-time job so I kind of grew up steeped in it and therefore have my own biases based on that experience. However I can say with confidence that I have never heard of the major arcana being called a suit.
What is worth looking into as far as the major arcana goes, is the journey of the fool because that's actually what the major arcana represents. The fool is the first card in the deck represented by the number zero and as you increase each card by one he meets different characters and encounters different obstacles within his life until he finally gets to the end and is able to experience the totality of the world. I'd say that the major arcana in this case is far more likely to represent the traveler, but again that's my opinion.
@@Ashikai you are so true for that - that’s why I put it in quotations haha - I just thought it was interesting how it could *maybe* be indicative of the crown artifact, seeing as tarot is steeped in spirituality it could have something to do with the crown chakra.?? Which has a lot to do with matters of the spirit and the mind and less so with real life? But I’m not sure if miHoYo went that far into it all. It’s possible though! A fifth artifact was included and they did say it was based on tarot so it was just my theory!!
And I just noticed how a lot of the descriptions of circlet artifacts have to do with expression of emotion/obscuring sight which is interesting.. I wonder why that is..
As for the story following the traveler that’s such a cool comparison I love that theory… I love all your analysis, theories, and opinions so much!! Your content is something I always look forward to!! and that’s so cool to hear your background with tarot and everything I have so much respect for that !!
What if “seven nations” in the Vishap-era refers to “seven elements” that they ruled over, and when the primordial one took over and “the seven nations submitted to the heavens” it actually means that the primordial could manipulate the elements at will and that’s why they were able to re-create the world (terraforming, basically) and then create life, with the help of the shade(s).
Just something I got stuck on with the mention of nations seemingly before the world had any major civilisations to speak of.
Watching your videos reminds me of the episode of hunterxhunter when gon and Killua learn that artists unknowingly imbued their creations with Nen through genuine effort and it’s what separates great works of art and counterfeit. Ur vids got a lotta nen and im excited to experience it :)
i think phaenus being a shade of the primordial one makes much more sense. It's like a Father, Son, Holy Spirit, situation where they're all the same "energy" just portrayed in different entities. So the shades WOULD BE the primordial one just in a different light.
Venti also guides at least Mondstadtian Souls to the Afterlife, so he could have the Death Powers of Istaroth.
Btw. In the German Tl the Artifacts are Life, Death, Time, Void and Reason(ing)
About what you said of the artifacts lore, I only can talk about the artifact of emblem of severed fate bc i have memorized its lore haha. It kinda matches your interpretation, it's crazy!
Flower (origins): It talks about how Teruyo gave Iwakura his new name, erasing his past. It's also when they agree to have the first match of those 13 years
Plume (things that have been said): Iwakura finally won. He almost killed teruyo. This is when teruyo told him her last words before disappearing, she told him to forget about her. Iwakura couldnt tell her that he wanted to fight another year.
Sands (events that actually happened): this one is interesting. It's narrated in first person by Hibiki. She is talking to Takamine and sharing facts about each other, one of them: their bet before his death.
Goblet (emotions): this one is quite sad. Iwakura is now Doukei, an instructor in the Kujou family. He came back to the little shrine where he fought Teruyo for 13 years. He never met her again since he won.
And that's it! It kind of matches the themes!!
Oho! Interesting!
Guess who's camping
7 hours is the amount of time I spend on genshin, so when I'm done I can immediately watch this ahaha
eyyyy just in time!!! Just finished up playing with friends and retired to bed (and teapot) ehehehe
awwww heck yeaaahhh EGG!!!! just finished it ehehe
Yesss hi so excited for the stream hbu?
Suddenly I have a thought... WHAT IF well you said the moon sisters may be the other 3 shades. So far we only have 2 confirmed ancient kingdom in teyvat. Sal Vindagnyr and the other one in Tsurumi Island. what if the three sister is tasked with guiding each kingdom with seelies? Oh I forgot to add Enkanomiya. Since Istaroth gave Abrax the wisdom to create Helios. It may be the third ancient kingdom.
Thus when the second throne came, they destroy the three kingdoms which received direct guidance from the shades of the primodial one to erase the history of the first throne. (I'm assuming that the second one wins) and well, since the moon sisters somehow died remaining only one 'corpse' left, thus we have several ancient kingdom.
Also, maybe the floating island, where it's called celestia is indeed the place where moon sisters and seelies resides. Which we see in every ancient kingdoms (idk about enka tho haven't finished exploring that one) and then, be made to imprison the seelIes who somehow shrunk in size because their memories is drifting away. Some that we see in teyvat may be those who escaped when the disaster happened. Which is why in the manga we saw that the interior of celestia looked like a prison.
This is just a thought that came to me suddenly, please keep that in mind xD
By "nations" the book might not necessarily be referring to the modern Teyvatian ones. I think it may be referring to the elements. For example there are creatures that are formed from pure elemental power. What if those beings were not created by the first throne, but submitted to it instead?
The word "nation" is pretty flexible. In day to day use, we use it synonymously with "state." But that isn't the only thing "nation" refers to. It also means a group of people with a distinct culture, genetics and/or identity. With this in mind, it's possible that geographical areas like Mondstadt or Liyue are not "nations" that are being spoken about.
So a possibility I just thought of. I don’t know if you’ve considered this before or not. But is it possible humanity didn’t originate or be created in Teyvat. Instead humans lived somewhere else, a different planet and where relocated into teyvat and the terraforming of teyvat was them filling it with the seeds of their original world. They left a dying world (flooded earth in Noah’s Ark) to new fertile lands that was teyvat.
Some Honkai players do speculate this. In short, there is a project in HI story called Project: Ark which basically sending satellite/probe/spaceships to find a habitable world for human, because their original planet is kinda in a brink of calamity by very powerful entity. The spaceship contains complete information of human genome, an AI to control & monitor the spaceship and it is also speculated to contain a human as a person in charge of that project.
I know it’s a year late but funny enough, Ashikai also had a whole video on this, haha!
The Crown could be connected to the Major Arcana. Incidentally, one interpretation of the major arcana is the Hero's Journey, the cyclical monomyth narrative...
Seelies come in different flavours (i.e. anemo, pyro, and electro currently) so its possible that the seelies were divided into 7 nations and they died and now just their remnants are left.
For people like me, who love mythology, Hades and Persona (the music is always a nice touch) : this video is a bliss
41 mins! Let’s go! Going to listen to every minute of it. Been waiting for this theory you’ve been teasing!
THIS LEFT ME COMPLETELY SPEECHLESS omg.... if istaroth is infact related to the death artifact rather then the time sands artifacts and is one of the moons, and instead of the the god of time as in everything under time but rather the moments (and i do remember maybe in the book before sun and moon was istaroth referred to as EVERY moment) then alot of things relate straight back to venti... (i relate everything back to venti but anywho), when venti 'fixed' the holy lyre, he basically just 'fixed it for a moment' , and venti also has quite alot of moon and death motifs, considering the theme played specifically at night in mondstadt is called 'dream aria' and his skin is also called skyward 'sonnet' (which im pretty sure aria is connected to the moon, as sonnet and aria, which are also considered forms of song and music, anddd venti is a bard,, and also dream and sleep in some way) which when you think of it, venti indeed spends quite a bit of his time in slumber??? and also, in ventis story quest he seems to relieve stanleys soul, basically freeing him from the world, which got a lot of people thinking he may be related to death, and also how freedom is connected to death in some way (which would also make sense if istaroth represents the death artifact and moments, considering life is just a moment of time) oh and also, istaroth is only seen in moments of history, for example when she was worshipped with barbatos, it was only for a moment before she got forgotten in time
It's nice to have the theories relate to some parts of your culture/religion.
Can't wsit for the next one!!
*wait
If one of the shades is the god of time does that mean Raiden Ei and Raiden Makoto are their descendants cause Ei is the god of Eternity and Raiden makoto I guess is the God of the Moment and both moment and eternity are part of Time
Edit found out more
During ei’s story quest the name istaroth (forgot how to spell it) was shown above Ei’s dialogue when talking to yea, I have a feeling it was relating to the god of time)
I don't think they're that directly related. Every archon holds an ideal, and for electro, that ideal is Eternity just like how geo values Contracts and wind values Freedom. I do think that the Raidens KNOW Istaroth, but idk that they're family.
Your theories are exactly what I was thinking myself too and now seeing you say it too makes it even more unreal
I saved you a lot of work then lol
I want to see NOW!!!!!!
As someone who witnessed her going nuts on twitter about "Before Sun and Moon" I'm surprised how cohesive this video was. Great job Ashikai
So we have: 4 shades (time, space, light, dark) and the primordial one. I've always thought that Venti and Paimon's teasing each other viciously was kinda suspicious. Also, like with Zhongli, I believe Venti is hiding a lot more information than it seems. Could the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles be the shade representing space? Then, it is also possible that Venti and Paimon together represent the shade of Time. Venti being often depicted with the God of time, could that be Paimon (she just lost her memory) and together they make 1 shade? Also, I find it so strange that we fished her out of the sea and yet she doesn't mention going back to her family or home at all. Is she truly an amnesiac or simply running away from her responsibilities? I think Mondstadt being the first nation we visit is gonna have huge lore implications in later patches. By the way, I love your theory crafting videos and the comments section always has me teeming with ideas! 🤔
I've said it as a joke once but the Primordial One in Genshin might as well be Welt from Honkai.
Also don't be surprised if their next game Star Rails may have events that leads up to the creation of Genshin.
I see you possess future vision.
(don't spoil the rest of the next theory vid plz :P )
I thought here: maybe historians called the 7 nations pre the primordial one because they were 7 places where the 7 strongest vishaps of each element dominated. 🦋
I just wanted to say I immensely enjoyed the frequent and insistent insertion of that glorious footage of a guy breaking an egg throughout the video.
Thank you for another amazing video! They're always so well researched and informative!
(Oh and when you mentioned the second who came after the peimordial one it reminded me of the battlepass story where one of the heirs is corrupted while on their mission so a second heir is sent and stuff)
Before sun and moon physically and mentally broke me, like, it felt like so much lore was just dumped on us and it was kinda overwhelming 😅
I think paimon is one of the moon sisters, though I’m not exactly sure how to word why. It just makes sense to me with context of a bunch of theories and lore bits and things lol
As a casual player who doesn’t do a lot of reading of the books from the game; I absolutely love your theories! They’re so well crafted and you break them down so perfectly; the editing is phenomenal and your wording is chef kiss precise!! I look forward to your next videos!!
I never realized how intricate this game was. Something new every video!
now now ashikai, how am i supposed to sleep when u plant so many ideas in my head? ill take a week to digest this vid. fabulous research as always! as a previous student in a classical gymnasium, these videos are like you pulling all my old knowledge of greek and roman civilisations and making them make sense in this context! thank you for ordering my brain hahaha
Genshin Impact's Story is what got me hooked on to the game after a story summary for Mondstadt, then I've been playing for:
1. MAIN Story
2. Characters
3. Character stories
5:19
i love how "come into being" was synced perfect with albedo's e skill
Wow this is a very different take on it all. I’m surprised because I would have never thought of that on my own. Very impressive. Venti being the reincarnation of the Primordial One would be even more impressive. I wanna hear your thoughts on the rest of the topics in the book.
40 minutes of Lore is just a blessing, thank you for the hard work Ashikai
It's always the way you speak and explain that keeps me engaged in listening. I usually get zoned out in class but here ? Nah
It is actually amazing the effort mihoyo put into their mythology
Ahhhh! Just when I think I've finally figured some stuff out you come out with a video that gives me loads of content to think about! Love your videos Ashikai! Keep up the awesome work!!
after venti casually send a soul to the afterlife in his/her story quest, i'm convinced that she/he is one of the primordial shades
YESS your lore videos make my day
i got recomended ur channel recently and am watching the old videos and ur hypothesis are always getting confirmed, you are really into the right wayyy 👁👄👁
As a history and mythology nerd, who is also planning to collect and read the classic sources (i.e. Theogony, Metamorphoses, Poetic Edda, etc.), this in-depth analysis on the various inspirations and easter eggs that are present in Genshin Impact was quite a surprise. Your video presentation, humor and editing have made me learn a few new things, specifically the existence of Orphism. I've quite enjoyed binging through your videos so I think the obvious thing to do is subscribe
I LOVE YOUR STORYTELLING. It always makes me chuckle. I love this take of yours on this painfully vague book.
The heckin Egg gets me everytime, one of the funniest parts of the lore for me lol. And yes I know its based on actual things.
The thing that got me the most is. . . Why Welt/the Herrshcer of Reason?
Guess I'll have to wait for the next video
I've been waiting all day for this, these lore videos are some of the best in existence
This video is the one that making my head explode more than all the previous theory/lore video. Amazing how much things were foreshadowed, linked, and even have so many references to mythology. Amazing video thank so much for this love your channel
Wow can’t believe you brought back the discussion of the pale princess and the 6 pygmies! I almost forgot about that but it works so well with everything! What a great memory!
ashikai has done it again! another great video
So would that mean that there's only 2 shades that are working right now? Susty one of the moon sisters and Phanes the sun, we all know you can't really kill some gods you can only diminish them just like what happened to Gouba so paimon possibly being Ishtaroth sounds pretty likely and if she was one of the moon sisters and she happened to fall from her guard post for whatever reason, that would explain why there's only 1 moon now and not 3, not sure what happened to the other moon sister though.
Paimon fits well as God of Moment. She only pause our time when we open menu, momentarily.
And even though she could forward day/night time, it's only our local "time" and not server time.
Which is why we only skip in day(s), not even week or month.
These talks about thrones coming from elsewhere is actually bringing me a theory about the traveler/the siblings : are we destined to become the third throne ? With either choosing to follow that destiny or fighting against it ?
It would kinda make sense with the Travail trailer...
Soooo, I'm going through all the new content now in 2.5 and every single time a hint of lore is dropped, all I can think about is "okay, now I need Ashikai's thoughts on this! this is huge!"
This vid is awesome!. I hope Ruu can sleep in peace knowing at least a portion of this truth,
Part 2 just in time for the _Enkanomiya - Electric Boogaloo_ hype! Yay!
Part 3 after 2.5? :D
(I will consider this video an early birthday present, as it goes through pretty much all of my concerns with *Before Sun and Moon* and my _Solar Return_ is just around the corner! So~ thanks!)
soooo....basically Teyvat is a giant omlette. :D
wow, your theories make me so excited for the future of this game
Thank you so much Ashikai for another mind blowing video
Love all this! I'm glad you mentioned the old Lisa quest and the weird connections that I mentioned in a comment after the last video, but I hadn't ever thought about there being connections to the moon sisters, that makes a lot of sense!
I remember reading in the Genshin WEBTOON that venti meantions names like ymir,pangu, and purusha. He calls them the primordial ones. Could they be the names of the other shades?
I don't know why, but the line, "In Teyvat, the stars in the sky will always have a place for you." always makes me think of Istaroth and the way she preserves stories and very specifically people as Sinshades if they have gained her favour. Then there's the "Seeds of stories, brought by the wind" line, and the way that the people of Teyvat have this whole gaining Visions as a result of being favoured by the gods thing going, and how it is their constellations that determine the shape their powers take and the fact that constellations have long since been used as a method of recording stories - all of this makes me think that Istaroth is related to the stars rather than being one of the moons. Technically, at the distance that stars are, they are pretty much the space equivalent in the canvas of the night of what moments are to time. Mapping all the shinies in the sky to the Shades, I would then say that Phanes relates to the Sun, 3 of the Shades relate to the 3 Moons, and Istaroth relates to the Stars - regardless of whether Phanes created the rest or not, I would still maintain that they are superior to the other 4 just in the same way that the Sun overpowers all other Celestial Bodies when in the sky.
One thread entangled into all of this is Paimon's obsession (lightly) with the rule of Threes in the Tsurumi Questline, specifically the way she insists that it should actually be the rule of Fours (since success is at the 4th attempt rather than after 3 tries). This lines up suspiciously with a few triads that should *actually* be tetrads; the Rhetorical Appeals (of which Kairos is excluded) and the Seasons (of which Winter is excluded - though you'll find it included on Mondstadt's Wind Blessed Harpastum's design) - I am certain there are more of these. One more interesting thing to note is the platform upon which Aberaku stands after his quest is completed; it is triangular with the central, *inverted* triangle missing, a sort of physical representation of the 4th-excluded Triad. Not to mention, if you overlaid Paimon's upside down Triquetra with any other Triquetra, you would get a Quadruple knot, and of course there's Kaeya, who gains a 4th icicle with C6 to complete his own Tetrad.
I do also feel like the existence of 5 entities is quite important when considering the 5 classical elements - especially now that Void has been confirmed as an element in Teyvat. Since Istaroth is a multi-domain Goddess, it wouldn't be out of the realm that the others would also be rulers over one each of the remaining classical elements and their respective concepts.
Really enjoying the lore videos!
You have achieved the perfect blend of making informative yet entertaining videos. Also love how clean and simple the editing in your videos is!
I don't know if anyone has covered this but I genuinely think that Paimon is a seelie and I have never heard a theory on it before but I don't do a ton of research so idk if other people have talked about it. I just needed an excuse to say that and when I heard the word seelie I immediately thought about Paimon so that's why I'm talking about it.
I've seen some good theories on this on Reddit, but I don't think I've ever seen one in video format.
I just had a random idea. You know that in the initial description of the Traveler there is a passage about them ascending? What if they're supposed to become a THIRD Throne of the Heavens and change the world somehow, and that passages is like a foreshadowing for that?
I don't really want to go full "Genshin is a sci-fi story", but if I thought about Primordial One as an Alien, and assumed that he didn't create anybody and just woke people up, because how would the scribe even know what their gods are doing? It is like very common that scribes are wrong and assume things. Anyway, separating the "earth from the rest of the universe" using an "eggshell" sounds kinda like... sheltering a whole planet from the rest of space, creating a fake bubble around it like an eggshell, which probably needs to be destroyed if they ever want to rejoin the rest of the universe. It also may be related to artificial sky. The whole sci-fi ideas get even stronger when I think about Primordial One "opening" an Ark, not creating humans. As if he already HAD humans, which he wanted to unleash on the world. Doesn't is sound like some space refugees with one Captain trying to find a new home for his hibernated people whose original world was destroyed to you? It sounds. I don't say he couldn't create humans. I just say that he may have an entire Ark of sleeping DNA samples to make babies which he then woke up and populated the world with in addition to creating more of them by using space in-vintro/cloning technology or whatever xD In this sense sheltering the earth is like creating a safe space for his people to live without having to fear whatever destroyed their original world. But then the Second Throne came, lol.
It sounds crazy, but sci-fi elements just kinda hit me in the face every time.
Why... why are you doing this to me and put Paimon next to image of Phanes. Do you want me to go crazy? To go bald? I am already filled with all the ideas who Paimon can be, and the only idea I can stick to without going crazy is "she is some kind of original god, one of a few in particular, considering she shares looks with a few other deities in Genshin". And her cape looks as if it included 3 moons imagery, and she is all heavenly like the loading screen, and has a crown for some reason, and this game will kill me one day I swear.
Later the whole eggshell sounds like "separating the realm of gods from the realm of mortals" and less than "we will now hide the planet from the rest of universe" xD Like, going with the fake sky analogy, the realm of heavens (loading screen?) would be above the fake sky.
How did I predict that Three Moon Goddesses were another Three Shades BEFORE you actually stated that in the video? (Great minds think alike, lol) It also aligns up with Paimon's whole ekhm... aesthetic, as she is similar to them in her appearance.
Ok, now I dunno if you pairing Paimon and Phanes was supposed to mean she is Phanes, or she is Ishtaroth/Kairos, one of three sisters. It gets confusing, don't do this to me xD
Moons related to Heavenly Principles will maybe finally kill the theory that "Sustainer is Paimon" which I personally hate with PASSION.
Oh, thanks, I was recently wondering what is the theory about time coming from in our world. I was guessing that it is related to Earth's rotation time around the Sun, but Moon being a common tool used to specify time is also plausible. Hell, if I looked more into it, I would probably find some explanation that both are actually viable time descriptors, because of the position and movement of our moon in relation to Earth speed-rate and our general orbit time around the sun due to being a 3rd planet. You know, all the sciencey stuff. Time was calculated by the Moons, but also we used sun clocks and sand clocks to measure time and time is so complicated OMG. So yeah, all are the factors I bet in science, gotta check.
Susty being a Shade also explains the relation to Paimon better than "they're one and the same being". Like... they're siblings, ok? They're related. Primordial One liked white hair, ok? xD She may be one of the Moon Sisters, but I wonder how then the whole story of them being dead and "one leaving the body behind" factors in it. Like, is it true, or is it just a common folk idea why they suddenly have only one dead body/moon instead of three. The typical "people of the earth make up stories to explain why the world around them changed but are wildly off the mark with the truth".
You know what is funny? That Dragon Lords and Vishaps being the ORIGINAL race of the planet actually makes sense with the whole leyline thing... as leylines are VERY COMMON trope in A LOT of anime and are also called Ryūmyaku or "Dragon Veins" in a lot of English translations (like in one of Pokemon Movies) or Dragon Pulse (Gintama translation). It fits the whole theme of dragons and elemental powers being interconnected. I also found some ideas that Azhdaha could be one of the original Dragon Lords - the Dragon Lord of The Earth, and it is not really that off the mark if we consider that Zhongli merely created his new body and not a spirit, because spirit was in the Earth and was sad and lonely and trapped. Poor little thing, sniff. I don't know how old exactly is Dvalin, but if he is on the young side, it may mean he is a reincarnation of the original Dragon Lord of The Wind, further tying the Dragons as a race to elemental energies, because he is said to be born from "convergence of elemental energy". (And because I love dragons now Primordial One is on my shit list for attacking all of them to subdue the world for his people).
Also... what if Erosion is a form of sickness which comes from and is caused by the sucking off the elemental energy from the world? The Primordial One who may have created the Heavens was an invader, so it would not be off the mark if the Heavens he may have created were sustained via sucking up elemental energy from the world, causing Erosion to beings who rely on it? (It would also somehow tie up the elemental energy, memories and souls together, which we know are tied to each other via leylines, irminsul trees, irminsul fruits and the such - it wouldn't be far off the mark to say that soul may be made from elemental energy itself). The very fact that Heavenly Principles which are said to impose Erosion on the world as a form of "natural order" being referred to as the "truth of this world" makes me suspicious of Celestia, because truths like that are usually ugly in nature. It may mean that Heavens are just a parasite, leeching the power from this world. Just food for thoughts.
This video is super cool, by the way: th-cam.com/video/Nnvy8aBOnsU/w-d-xo.html
Interesting! After reading what you said, I had some thoughts about the moon sisters.
That legend of the three moon sisters is really cryptic to be honest so I think it might not be 100% literal.
I could imagine that, rather than the three sisters literally *being* a moon each, maybe the moon we see currently in the sky is the actual vehicle they used to go across the sky? I mean the moon there still does go around the earth even with apparently all the sisters being "dead" in the story. If that moon really was the dead body of one of the sisters why would it still go around like normal? If it was just the vehicle it could simply be used by someone else now. To be fair the line that says that they have to switch places or something bad will happen is quite vague. We don't know why they had to switch places/why something bad will happen and why that apparently isn't a problem now that the sisters are "dead".
Since in the game "gods never really die" it would make sense that the moon sisters are still alive despite what the legend about them said.
If we assume that Susty is one of the three sisters then it would seem indeed possible that Paimon might be one too simply because of the fact that they have connections design wise. I do agree btw. I don't like the theory that Paimon is the sustainer itself either LOL
However, I also can't really completely settle with the theory that Paimon is Istaroth though....For one I can't see the ties to the wind with Paimon other than that she can fly (Susty can too and only Kairos/Istaroth was specifically mentioned to have ties with the wind) and that we found her in/near Mondstadt. Main reason is though that she is always so serious about the fact that her name is Paimon. If the moon in the sky isn't a sister but a vehicle or something like that, then it would be possible that Paimon, Susty and Kairos/Istaroth are the three sisters but I just wonder about Paimons name....why would Paimon have another Ars Goetia demon name?
Another thing that would tie into this that I wonder about would be the that I assumed that Susty has ties with Celestia? I mean Paimon MUST have ties with Celestia based on her looks. But Celestia seemingly only came after the first throne (like Ashikai said, Celestia is perhaps the second throne that came). At that time the moons sisters must have been already present since they coexisted with the seelie that were created to guide humanity in the beginning, so if Susty was one of the sisters she must have been around before Celestia came? That kinda makes no sense to me though...
I think Kairos/Istaroth being one of the three sisters would makesense but I can't really wrap my head around Susty or even Paimon being one of them yet.
@@vm1562 I for the longest time didn't know, and I still don't know how Paimon is connected to all of this. But I know for a fact that whoever the three sisters were, they may not have been the only gods that existed (just think about Omnipresent God, who may or may not be one of the Sisters, but may also be a separate deity). So Paimon could be just... dunno... related somehow, but not be one of the Sisters. Ashikai also paired Paimon's image with Phane, so that actually speaks to me more? Like a creation deity related to Three Sisters kinda thing. About her name... I dunno, but maybe it is not the original name, and she just insists on this one, because it is one she gave herself or was given at some point? Maybe there was something which made the previous pantheon of gods be forced to serve the second one? Or maybe Paimon is just a reincarnation of one of the previous gods, but because she doesn't remember, she was swept by Celestia and put in charge of something? Dunno. Paimon has too many similarities with loading screen to not be related, but as long as we do not get the exact history behind Paimon and Sustainer we cannot really say how much they're related to it, why and what exactly happened. Sustainer design definitely doesn't scream Celestia Pillar to me, she looks more alien to me? (And she has the cape. Like... it looks like Abyss Cape, which Tartaglia sports in his Third Transformation - just red one). As if she was some weird crossover between Honkai and Genshin typical aesthetic. It may also be that the Heavens always existed, and the First throne just took possession of the empty sit, and then celestial came. We dunno what designs First Throne followed, unless we assume Enkanomiya's design resembles their design. No matter, what I wanted to say is that it is a common trope that when one civilization of immortal powerful beings gets usurped by another, the second one takes all the stuff the first had. So y'know, complicated. We need more data. I am rolling with assumptions. And my only firm assumption is that Paimon is not just a mere floating fairy, she is important and related to pre-Archon gods. Paimon may not be her real name.
The amount of effort you put into this videos is insane, I mean 40 MINUTES just for one video,keep up the great work!
So... many words. My non-native English speaker brain needs some rest.
It's always a pleasure watching your videos though, and thanks for bringing me back to the time (*wink wink*) when I was completely obsessed with Greek mythology.
after finishing the the whole video, i must say, the in depth of the research that you have done really amaze me, kudos, keep it up
So your mention of the Crown of Logos as potentially being related to the Primordial One/relating to the word of god etc made me think about those 4-star circlet only sets that you can get from the world bosses. Like…the Rite of Frost set (I think that’s one of them). And they all talk about some secret, priests, some disaster long ago, a pile of crowns at the foot of an ancient white tree, cycles…
I can’t put my finger on it, but that feels. Important. Very Important and Relevant.
!!!!!!!!! Thank you for the video!!! It's very insightful, and it made me think for a bit.
From all my thinking in Genshin, I come across *4 weird entities that possibly have powers beyond the 7 elements* , the first three also coincidentally having the same general aesthetic around them. I tried connecting my already existing theories with the ones in the video:
*1. Dainslief = Flower of Life* - A Khaenriahn who is pro-humanity, in a nation who is prolific with the Art of Khemia, which is essentially the artificial creation of life. Seems fitting for him to be guarding it I think. And i'd like to think that the Ouroboros connections to him are fitting now, since he is technically experiencing corruption - He is self-destructing.
*2. Signora = Plume of Death (but not quite)* - We don't really know why signora has her powers, or how she got it, but she is very violent and very forward-facing with her issues, dealing with it personally. I suggest that Signora has gotten a forbidden power of a moon goddess that crumbled. Coincidentally, she's a Mondstadter, from the land of Air. Also, with a funerary aesthetic, solidifying "Death". Moths are also Associated with moons.
*3. Sustainer = Sands of Eons* - We know her as someone who controls time, so her being a moon goddess as well as being a goddess of time makes sense. She is the only one in "Celestia", at least if she came from there. Also from the CN translation's stand-point, i think calling it the time piece is reasonable in a sense that she's the only one left of the three, presumably.
*4. Paimon = Goblets of Eonothem (suppressed)* - The goblet that can provide us elemental energy which can let the wearer who doesn't even use that elemental power to have it regardless? Very Paimon with our visions. Also, we found Paimon underwater, connecting to the cup and water theme of the cards. Also space cape aesthetic, homing to the Goblet of Space CN translation.
I base this theory just through *simple design choices* that Mihoyo chose:
*Black Stars* - A hair piece for Paimon, Multiple on Signora's neck and chest area
Intertwining Appliques - Sustainer and Dainsleif's chest, Signora's back cape.
*White hair* - Signora, Sustainer, Paimon
*Celestial Cape Underside*- Signora is the only one who doesn't have this, which may be because she is mortal/not the true moon goddess.
Coincidentally too, *Dainsleif and Albedo are both blonds with blue eyes* . Albedo is a part of the primordial human project, which makes me think *what if Dainslief is actually the Circlet, and Albedo possibly the Flower?*
1. Dainslief in the travail trailer makes it sound like he's the last boss out of everything: "Defeat me, command me to step aside, show me that you are worthier than I to rescue her". For a game named Primordial God Impact, it seems reasonable for the final boss to be the Primordial God itself right? The unknown god might just be a red herring, which is why we're going to Khaenriah as the last act because we had a realization. Dainsleif being the Primordial one makes more sense if Albedo is Phanes, too. Since Dainsleif said before that he *will* intervene if Albedo has made a fatal error. He is in charge of his shade.
2. Albedo already has the flower aesthetic and already understands life and creation very well. Makes his not being a failed experiment come into full circle. Albedo is also (subjectically) androgynous in nature, as you mentioned in the video is a description of Phanes. Coincidentally too, Albedo is one of the few things in the game that references the sun.
Also, It seems just very fitting for Mihoyo to introduce everyone in the first parts of the story, similarly to how Kiana was introduced in Honkai, to later be known as a Herrscherr.
I always thought of Signora as a waste, and I feel like Mihoyo will come around to her eventually, but maybe not as Rosalyne, but as another person altogether.
im watching this video after i got done with eis new story quest and i cant believe they mention that makoto got help from istaroth! Cant wait to see your options on that!!! :)
I haven't had the time to really watch this video until today. I have noticed something cool today, however. In Zhongli's voicelines about Xiao, he asks the Traveller to make sure that paimon does not eat the medicine that he was sending for Xiao, giving the reasoning "Nothing of this world can survive that medicine" or something along the lines. Considering it's Zhongli, maybe there is something about Paimon that he knows (for example Paimon being a moon sister and one of the supposed gods of time, being one of the shades of the primordial one). Also another thing, what if susty is the moon sister who stays in the sky currently? We more or less know that Istaroth was present in Enkanomiya, with the existence of shades of Tokoyo. Makoto seemed to know Istaroth as well (no shit) since she took Istaroth's help for the Sacred Sakura. I propose that all the archons (atleast the original seven) knew the moon sisters or the shades of the primordial ones. With this, we have three (assumption ofc) moon sisters, paimon,istaroth and susty. We know from the book that the primordial one sealed the way back upto the surface for Enkanomiya. My question is, would the Primordial one not know of one of its own shades being there? To me it seems like he sealed Enkanomiya on purpose, maybe because the Primordial one wanted to seal Istaroth? What with Istaroth's assosciation with one of the original seven and Celestia being the supposed second throne and the Archons being under Celestia, was Istaroth per chance deemed a traitor of sorts?
That's my after thoughts on the video and I absolutely loved the video!
8:00 i dont think the 7 nations refers to the 7 nations we know today or at least not quite. I guess they just came into being the same way as in that they formed around each of the 7 sovreigns. Then, much later, when the 7 archons were formed, each of them got a gnosis and the nations reformed around them. I do think the 7 original sovreigns are connected to why there are 7 archons, but i think the 7 nations refered to back then may not have been the ones we know today. Or maybe they are i dont know.
Edit: also 1 thing i want to know: did you google a video where someone underlines the word arc with a pencil, or did you record that yourself?
I also have a theory that the 3 shades could be the 3 gods venti thought of when he had that bad flashback. They had cloaks on that could have possibly be used to mask their “shimmering” or godly presence. Or because they were left to wander the world after having served their purpose. I also feel like this tracks better than them becoming the 3 moons for 2 reasons, 1. They had human like forms and because the other shade created (don’t know how to spell their name) had a human-esc name it could mean that they were also similar to humans at least enough to take a human like form 2. Because the creator shade was also androgynous I just can’t picture them not being so as well, and the 3 moons were very clearly depicted as female. Though another speculation, I’d love to hear other input as well!