LUMINETH NERFS: Too harsh or too gentle? Or did GW get it right?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Welcome to more Lumineth Realm-Lords content! We're talking the latest balance update from 25 September, with a focus on how the changes affect our Lumineth lists.
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What units are you taking more (or less) of now?
Change 1 unit of Dawnriders with wardens to fix most of the lists with -90pts. Change other unit of 5 with Callis&Toll. Done😂
Also now I’ll definitely try Teclis. With nerf of PT shooting and kinda seminerf manifestations for weaker casters - he looks tempting again
Foxes only going up 10 points is a major lol. Big miss for me overall, all it's going to do is push people even more towards the most toxic stuff.
I fear the same. On the one hand, I'm happy they didn't heavy-hand everything, but on the other, I wish we knew how long it would take for new possible adjustments.
At the 33 min mark you ask what are doing now that you are 40 points over? Easy, drop dawnriders for kangaroos. Unfortunately my 2k list went up 200 points so I lost an entire unit of kangaroos to just get back to 1990. Hurakan lists got destroyed
Thanks for the video!
Interestingly, i've never fought against dawnriders. Only archers, wizards and spear walls, so I have no idea how the change would feel from an opponent's perspective.
At this point I'm just genrally glad they gave wyldwoods and temptation dice some help, and have not gotten around to reading it all proper like ^^
I am curious in your opinion if LRL is doing good because we have 4 battle tactics base on movements, and strong casting on manifestations?
Well, we had a lot going for us. Movement was definitely our biggest strength and it still really is. Magic was okay, it's mainly the Calligrave overperforming. Both of those things will remain the case, we'll just to do it with one unit less now, I predict. So I'm sure we'll still be in a good spot.
We might have to take out the sentinels and going for more huracan units. Problem is if they nerf huracan the nerf might go to far next time. Also if manifestations keep getting nerfed (wich is very likely) teclis will go down hard. Lets just hope our book is not that far away and that we get more spells so we can do more things with our many wizards. Great video as always!
I'm in the same boat, prediction wise. For tournaments, I'm inclined to move onto Hurakan even more. For casual play, I think the army is still absolutely fine in all of its versionS and styles. It's just weird that Hurakan seems to be left alone for most of it, so people will just auto-assume (like we're doing right now), it's the right thing to move to.
Here's hoping it's not all Hurakan stuff for the next couple of months. 🤞
Move shoot move with that movement range is simply unbalancable.
They need to touch rules, not only points, otherwise we'll end up with unplayable hurakan during middle of the Edition.
If you want more things in your book you better hope you’re nowhere near the first few ones released
Skaven got absolutely nothing in terms of subfaction/spells/command traits/artefacts
I don't have Hurakan so I'm dropping any Bladelords, building my next 20 Wardens and putting in the enlightener over the calligrave and ditching the twins
More wardens seems like a good idea 👍 bladelords will also still be fine, I think
Great video as usual, while I’m not into AoS anymore, always love supporting my favourite creators, keep it up
❤️
its shocking that dawn riders got hit so hard while other cav units get a slap on the wrist. its like why bother taking them they never get buffed. I really feel like instead of nerfing us they should have buffed other factions.
A nerf was due (and justified), I'm just not sure four versions of it were completely fair... We'll see. Give it a couple of weeks and we might see nothing has changed, haha. Such things happen as well!
Hang in there ❤️
almost all the discussion about dawnriders from roughly 39:09 is pretty funny. the complaining about dawnriders being really killy on the charge but tough to get value out of beyond sitting there as an anvil if it does get charged later (like all cavalry!)...the fact that now you have to be "really precise" with dawnriders using all the tools that had just been listed right before (screening, power through, positioning etc) is talked about as something to woe and be remorseful over with shining company not being as effective and their points going up is honestly a bit insulting to non-LrL players. "460 points for 40 wounds and a 3+ save...it's...okay(?)". cmon man. look at cavalry options other factions have that are not varanguard, what every other army has to do to get value out of their cavalry, now dawnriders are on that same level while still being a crazy strong, just now also an honest unit. great video otherwise
Yeah, I can see how my words can come across that way. So I definitely understand the sentiment! That being said, I don't like how people just take my opinion on Dawnriders as a singled out thing. My opinion is tied to the rest of the army and its playstyle. The fact that Dawnriders were our only melee killer unit since maybe book one (eltharion excluded?), gives them a special place in our hearts, I think. Hence the disappointment.
I like the comparison with Varanguard. I can see why you'd look at it that way. In that army you have two options of cavalry: the chaos knights who are okay on the charge and otherwise just soak wounds, or the Varanguard who are always great damage wise. There's options. You've also got the minotaur dudes (terradons?) who are fantastic in melee.
Lumineth have Dawnriders as melee beat sticks, that's it. Now they are more akin to chaos knights, which is fine, it's just a bit sad that we don't have a good alternative. So people will probably move onto castle builds or Hurakan builds. I don't like how those will probably be our only options, since castling is something we've had to do since forever and Hurakan is just gonna feel more toxic.
So my feelings on Dawnriders are tied to the bigger picture. I don't think it's fair to compare that view with any other army. That being said: I do understand (and know) that certain armies are even worse off! And for those armies I would wish the exact same tools that we have ❤️
Anyway, lengthy comment, because I can see where you're coming from and I wanted to clarify where I was coming from too. Really appreciate the clear feedback and the comment. ❤️
@@strategoi understandable. sorry if i came off a bit rude or too direct.
i reckon a lot of battleplans really really encourage castling as the most straightforward and effective strategy. too many essential synergies relying on being ww12", which i really dislike, obviously leads to so many armies being unga bunga see which castle can smash the other castle better in the middle. hurakan at least still stands as a very solid alternative, and so is super unique, if often quite frustrating for the other person (foxes + windchargers currently just feel a lot like 3rd ed KO lol). weird spot to be in for sure, trying to be unique in different ways while so many other factions lack the rules to be able to meaningfully interact, although that is inevitable with the start of an index edition. but man, as a non-LrL player, i am so happy to have to see less dawnriders on the table, hopefully, lol.
A block of 10 dawnriders with power of hysh still delete most anything they touch, so the argument that they’re going to get clapped back hard because of the loss of shining company is kind of hilarious to me. You’re still 30 wounds on a 3+ now you just don’t have one of the strongest buffs in the game and actually have to play the trade game with them. I think this is why a lot of people have high elf hate. It is the player base not understanding that you have some of the most efficient units in the game, backed up by some of the best non interactive rules in the game, and complain when you guys get your rules toned down to be fair. You mentioned eldari earlier in regard to 40K, LRL and NH are both in a similar situation to eldari in 10th. They are both so busted in the same ways that eldar were in 40K that they’ll need multiple rounds of fixing to not be 55%+.
This is the exact thing I talked about at the beginning of the video. You've got those two sides of the spectrum: Lumineth players who are in deep and are committed to their army. And the people having to play against them and singling out opinions on certain units.
I definitely know there's some truth in your comment. Dawnriders needed a slap on the wrist. I don't think I was arguing for anything else. And yes, they were absurdly strong before. So the change to shining Company is probably justified for them) though I'm not sure so about that for the other units.
The question then remains whether they needed the other nerfs as well.
Personally I'm not a big fan of comparing one over performing unit with the feeling of an entire play base. I hope you'll understand that Dawnriders were our only proactive melee unit and the first real delete button we've had since book one (eltharion excluded for a couple of months). So seeing them being turned j to chaos knights rather than Varanguard is just a little sad for the Lumineth players, who had this whole new playstyle opened up.
I'm gonna copy a part of my reply on a different comment here, just so we understand each other better.
"I don't like how people just take my opinion on Dawnriders as a singled out thing. My opinion is tied to the rest of the army and its playstyle. The fact that Dawnriders were our only melee killer unit since maybe book one (eltharion excluded?), gives them a special place in our hearts, I think. Hence the disappointment.
I like the comparison with Varanguard. I can see why you'd look at it that way. In that army you have two options of cavalry: the chaos knights who are okay on the charge and otherwise just soak wounds, or the Varanguard who are always great damage wise. There's options. You've also got the minotaur dudes (terradons?) who are fantastic in melee.
Lumineth have Dawnriders as melee beat sticks, that's it. Now they are more akin to chaos knights, which is fine, it's just a bit sad that we don't have a good alternative. So people will probably move onto castle builds or Hurakan builds. I don't like how those will probably be our only options, since castling is something we've had to do since forever and Hurakan is just gonna feel more toxic.
So my feelings on Dawnriders are tied to the bigger picture. I don't think it's fair to compare that view with any other army. That being said: I do understand (and know) that certain armies are even worse off! And for those armies I would wish the exact same tools that we have ❤️"
Lengthy reply, because I really wanna clear the air here, haha. I totally understand where you're coming from. I hope you kind of understand where I'm coming from now as well? I think it's probably best not to directly judge the entire player base, though (once again), I do understand and know that Lumineth and eldar playstyles also attract certain players you might not want to be BFF's with at tournaments 😂 Just don't turn all of us and all of our opinions into the ones form those people hehe ❤️
Last addition here: I purposely didn't say anything about win rate, because I also don't think we'll be dropping hard in win rate. We're still gonna be fine. I say as much at the end of the video, I think. We'll have to wait and see for the percentage, but with Hurakan being what they are, I think tournament players will still do really well 🤷♂️ so your bet might not be far off.
@@strategoi I get where you’re coming from and I focused hard on dawnriders specifically because I think that even at 230, with the shining company nerf, they’re still good. You just won’t take 20 of them. What really got me going was that your response was just unclear. In the first part of the video you talked about how you felt rewarded for playing the army as a scalpel. But the current lists weren’t scalpel list, they were catch alls. Dawnriders pre this battlescrolls just did it all, they were hyper fast melee hammers that were impossible to kill. That doesn’t constitute a scalpel and wouldn’t fall under your definition of getting enjoyment out of the army. The new iteration of the dawnriders are a scalpel. You need to put them into the correct unit for maximum effect and now you’re punished if you don’t. That’s the definition of a scalpel.
The comparison to varaguard is a little bit nonsensical because Khorne marked varaguard are just the best melee “delete” button in the game while being ridiculous survivable. I’m surprised they only saw a 10pt increase. So, if your bar is literally best in slot cav (that everyone knows is still undercosted), then no matter what you compare, it’ll always fall short.
I guess to sum up my thoughts, parts of the video came across as, frankly, whining about overtuned units and rules getting brought back in line to a power level more akin to the rest of 4.0. Like you said, some armies, and I’d argue, most armies would kill to have the tool box, rules, and units costed like LRL does. I think the army will be fine. Foxes and hurakan will need to get reigned in and I think we’ll see more stoneguard builds pop up, as we already are starting to see a little bit. I think venari mixed arms will still be a thing as well.