thank you great class lots of technical information , I've spent lots time at Chryslers training facticity over 25 years in a dealership , i serviced these unit and did all the TSB's back in the day but been driving school buses since 2009 , I own my 2012 wrangler with the 3.6 v6 Nag 1 5spd for 6 years its been a great running vehicle, I ve just started experiencing a problem with the trans at 100,000 miles no DTC's, NO check engine light, fluid is not burnt , no metal or strange material in the pan second service at about 95000 miles, never towed or hot rod just a fun driver , On moderate acceleration under light load trying to climb hills or enter hwy I'm getting a high pitch whining noise rotational to rpm and will not exceed speed above 45 mph under light acceleration i get all five shifts no noise and can cruise at hyw speeds , I just had the TCM and ECU flashed to the latest software , I flushed the trans cooler and replaced the trans cooler bypass valve , No noise at idle or shifting from park to drive or reverse , condition is present also when manual shifting no stalling or shuttering , units are on back order , i was hoping for a quick and easy fix maybe a valve body repair and a torque converter, back in the day Chrysler would put a new unit in if we need a pump converter and a valve body as it put it over 70 % , any advise or ideas would be appreciated , thank you Bob
Great video and detailed explanation of the whole system! I also recently experience some trouble with the lockup mode in the 722.626 WA580 from 2002 E320 CDI. I changed the lockup control valve to the newer version last year and it got a lot better but i'm still having a bit of trouble. In particular, the tranmission seems to be driven through the normal torque converter with the clutch partially applied in first and second gear and in full lockup mode once it's shifting to 3-4-5. Sometimes i drive up a hill in 3rd gear at a bit over 1000 revs with slight throttle and once i push down the throttle a bit more it shifts to second gear at 1700-2000 revs with lockup partially applied (dragging). I suppose that's also the way it should be in gear 3-4-5 but it isn't, although sometimes when it shifts in these gears you can feel that the transmission is working through torque converter and that the clutch gradually applies after a few seconds until it's fully locked - so i think my transmission doesn't know exactly when to apply the lockup and to what extent... Plus, i also sometimes have a slight engine rev-up before it upshifts to the next gear in every gear, especially under low torque and trottle, while some other times it's perfectly fine. Transmission shifts incredibly smooth even if it does that kind of "rev-up" so no clunky engagement at all and since different clutches, brakes and freewheels are applied in the shifting transition, i guess that's also kind of related to the TCC that disengages during the shift so that the converter and the engine rev up a bit before the next gear is engaged. It's increadibly hard to find any information in the internet about how the TCC should apply in which engine rev section and wether it has to fully lock up or not. I've just found one diagram which shows the TCC apply in relation to input shaft speed and throttle position, but it's a bit difficult for me to interpret this diagram because i don't know how i can measure the input shaft speed and i guess the TCM and therefore the TCC is programmed to the particular engine that is connected to the transmission. Could you give me any suggestion in this case or maybe provide additional information about whether the TCC has to lock up fully/partially and in which engine rev area? Thank you very much and greetings from Germany 🖐️
To find out if the TCC should be applied, you'd have to drive it with a scan tool installed and monitor the lockup pid. These, as you know, do have issues regarding the converter. I have a video on the improvements/enhancements. I would think that the lube reg valve and the overlap valves might help your transmission.
Alright, thank you very much. I have a star diagnosis at my hand so i can monitor all the parameters but it doesn't show the degree to which the TCC should be applied - but I might soon take care of the valve body and install these improvements you mentioned since I also think that the tolerances of the valve bores could be too high
my sprinter with the 5 speed 722.6 will rev instantly to the rev limiter in park or neutral and has zero engine problems. Not a single code for the engine. The fact that my van has about 5% power in reverse or drive tells me its the torque convertor. it wont even drive over a piece of 2x4. It feels like the more throttle I give the more the lockup clutch is engaging almost like the the extra rpms are giving more hydraulic pressure to the lockup. Anyways, it idles pretty good in drive or reverse, but as soon as you put it into drive you can feel the torque convertor clutch grabbing way too much and you really need to have the brakes on. I have star diagnostic scanner and I have code 2783 torque convertor lockup clutch - The component has an excessive power consumption. Im thinking this means the solenoid, Ive tested the resistance it's in range 2.9 ohms. Also there is one more transmission code 2767 RPM sensor 3 No signal. I'm thinking that's the speed sensor on the conductor plate. If the speed sensor fails, would the TCM be trying to send power to the lockup solenoid? maybe just a small amount just enough to be able to idle, but when I give it gas the rpm will only go up about 200-300rpm and instantly clutch gets locked up. Could this also be why the solenoid is getting excessive power consumption code? Regardless, I've taken the valve body out. Very little clutch wear on the magnet and no metal debris of any kind anywhere. Ive purchased a conductor plate, tcc solenoid, tcc damper valve, and also overlap valves just for the heck of it. Also the TCM is dry and no oil has wicked into it. I Was wondering if you've ever seen anything like this. thanks
Hello, thank you very much for your great videos, they are really cool and greetings from Germany, I have a problem. I hope you can help me, I have now installed a new replacement gearbox with converter 722.640 and now I have the problem, before the car shifts into second gear when driving off, the torque converter clutch slams in. So it closes too early/quickly and opens too late. What's going on? The PWM valve has already been replaced. Glycol test is negative. It's an S211 E270CDI.
You are incredibly knowledgeable and I really appreciate you making videos like this. But at the unintended risk of offending you, could i offer some advice that would help someone like me learn? Could you please include some "so what?" Info? In other words, what are the things that happen while driving a vehicle that are affected by some of this info. You mention "issues" a couple times but don't articulate those. For someone like me it's nice to be able to correlate: ie: "if this isn't working right, then you might notice THIS happening while you drive or shift or go up a hill" or etc. etc. I hope you're not offended. As a teacher myself I have a rule in class that my kids can raise their hand anytime and ask, "so what?" And that allows me to explain how what I'm teaching them will actually affect their lives. (Or in your case what problems they may see in driving) I find this helps my students retain info better as they correlate what they've been taught to a real world application. Thanks for your knowledge and effort as a teacher.
After a transmission flush my normally operating 722.6 started occasionally slipping on upshifts from second to third gear, sometimes first to second. Any idea as to where could the problem be? Torque converter or some valve from the electronic plate? Thanks a lot, these videos are very informative.
Is failure of the torque converter clutch a common problem in the 722.6? If so, is there a particularly common cause? A couple years ago, my trans started going into limp mode after driving awhile. I was told the TCC had failed. Sure enough, I opened the pan and found what looked like coffee grounds in the pan. The filter was also clogged. I changed the filter and fluid and it seemed fine after that. This trans only had about 85k miles. To be fair, I had installed an SGA150 valve body about a year prior. SGA = Sound German Automotive. I can't help but wonder if that was somehow related. I haven't yet installed this same VB into the new trans. Loved this shifts, but kinda paranoid. I knew I needed to get a new converter. And I didn't want to have the down time for a self rebuild of the trans. So I bought a Circle-D converter and a transmission from Mercedes. This is for an SL65 btw. I just finished watching your most excellent 722.6 complete overhaul video. Going to tackle rebuilding the old trans using your video as a guide. I've done TH350, TH400, 7004R, 4L60e, 4L80e, T56 and a couple Nissan manuals, back in the day. You made the rebuild of the 722.6 look like child's play. :)
When you have time you should make a video on how to install the torque converter in the 722.6 you will find that in the Mercedes service manual or wis the clearance that they say that need to be achieved is unattainable unobtainable
Hi Sean, thank you for the great Video! I‘m experiencing the cold stall issue on my 3.0 CDI. Before I do anything with the TC, is it worth to try the Transgo Shift Kit for the TC lubrication valve? How big is that chance that this will fix my issue? Thanks in advance.
I am sorry to disagree, but what you call pilot does not help to center at the crank shaft, but it's just a housing for the tip of the transmission input shaft! What "really" centers the torque converter are the bolts from the flex plate, not only it helps for the longitudinal shift, "torque converter set back clearance" fluctuation but also axial angular tilt!
Hi , i bought repaired torque converter and its normal its shakes inside little bit? feels like stuff in is free..just need to be sure is ok before replacement
You are amazing . I have a problem with my W204 with 722.6 only when is cold outside and only at the first start , after starting the engine, when switching the selector from P to R or D, the engine speed drops from approx. 800 revolutions at 700-600 revolutions for a period of 1-3 seconds, after which it returns to the initial position (800 revolutions) if I put directly in D engine it will stop, BUT you feel that the car is forcing itself to leave from under you (the brake is obviously pressed) . What can be ?
@siu automotive do you know how much input shaft play or movement is normal on the 722.6 transmission. The input shaft seems like it has a lot of play in that bushing.
My symptoms- Code P0741 TCC slip under load and shudder on slow down down at 20mph Fluid looks good , not metal shavings at all What’s the chance u think the pressure regulator valve is worn Trans go kit says it fixes p0741
Please help. My transmission feels like it wont lock up on time while above 45mph. Ill be normally increasing speed or cruising and going up a hill, and it is like the car cant increase rpms like it should and during these few seconds, the engine cant rev up any higher and the gas pedal wont respond, but after a few seconds it finally does respond and the engine jerks and then takes off. I had a tcc solenoid code, so i replaced the solenoid however i am still having this problem like it does not want to go up hill or cruise at higher speed until last minute and then when it finally responds it jerks hard and take off. Another problem at higher speeds is that the car will have that moment of no response and higher rpms but then suddenly the rpms will either raise or drop and the car will respond again. I also hear one quick screech sound believed to be from torque convertor everytime i am accelerating from a stop sign no matter if it is light or hard acceleration. Only once before has the engine revved up to 5k rpms with no increase in speed at 65mph while going up a slight incline, when this one time thing happed, it was as if the transmission was not connected to the engine.
I'm experiencing hard shiftdowns from 2nd to 1st gear at operating temperature. When cold there is no problem. Ran 187.000 miles and from 2006 and gearoilchange (5 gallon flush) every 37.000 miles. Sometimes the engine almost seems to want to stall when coming to a hold. What could be the problems here? Solenoids or control valves or even torque converter pressure issues? Thanks for great videos
I'm also an instructor/teacher for a Canadian company.. As you know it's incredibly difficult to judge your class and their cognitive level.. great work in explaining.. great material.. My son and I are attempting to find and install a 5 or 6 speed transmission on his Jag-xjs. The V-12 was married to a th400.. is it possible and how much TCU do we need, or is there an aftermarket company supplying anything out there? Keep up the great delivery..
hi, did quite a bit of googling around but didn't find anyone with the same issue. 04 r230 sl600 (v12 twin turbo) with 70k miles. driving on a level road, when giving just a slight bit of gas, or letting off, I feel play in the driveline, but I dont think its the driveshaft or the differential, it feels as if there is play inside the transmission itself. what could it be related to, a gearset, a bushing, some bearing? thank you.
It could be a TCC dragging on. There is an "improvements" video I did that shows some torque converter fixes. This trans seems sensitive to cold operation regarding TCC operation.
We have mercedes w210 v6 1997 year we couldn't fix or find the right automatic gearbox because it s on limp mode it stuck on the third gear we are still driving it like that any way. If I can help me for the exact gearbox
I am not a big fan of this transmission, I own a 2014 Chrysler 300 C 5.7 l all wheel drive and it uses the 5 speed nag1, Aside from an annoying tacometer twitch or twitch I started having surging issues And I didn't get any check engine light for well over 2 years and it got pretty bad, I, I only had the surging when I was driving up hills or if I was on light throttle while accelerating. After many dealerships and a lot of sensors being changed I changed my torque converter which cost me $2000, Now the surging is gone
The schematics alone are gold, thanks for the great instruction!
thank you great class lots of technical information , I've spent lots time at Chryslers training facticity over 25 years in a dealership , i serviced these unit and did all the TSB's back in the day but been driving school buses since 2009 , I own my 2012 wrangler with the 3.6 v6 Nag 1 5spd for 6 years its been a great running vehicle, I ve just started experiencing a problem with the trans at 100,000 miles no DTC's, NO check engine light, fluid is not burnt , no metal or strange material in the pan second service at about 95000 miles, never towed or hot rod just a fun driver , On moderate acceleration under light load trying to climb hills or enter hwy I'm getting a high pitch whining noise rotational to rpm and will not exceed speed above 45 mph under light acceleration i get all five shifts no noise and can cruise at hyw speeds , I just had the TCM and ECU flashed to the latest software , I flushed the trans cooler and replaced the trans cooler bypass valve , No noise at idle or shifting from park to drive or reverse , condition is present also when manual shifting no stalling or shuttering , units are on back order , i was hoping for a quick and easy fix maybe a valve body repair and a torque converter, back in the day Chrysler would put a new unit in if we need a pump converter and a valve body as it put it over 70 % , any advise or ideas would be appreciated , thank you Bob
😀 Excellent Presentation!! 😃
Great video and detailed explanation of the whole system!
I also recently experience some trouble with the lockup mode in the 722.626 WA580 from 2002 E320 CDI. I changed the lockup control valve to the newer version last year and it got a lot better but i'm still having a bit of trouble.
In particular, the tranmission seems to be driven through the normal torque converter with the clutch partially applied in first and second gear and in full lockup mode once it's shifting to 3-4-5.
Sometimes i drive up a hill in 3rd gear at a bit over 1000 revs with slight throttle and once i push down the throttle a bit more it shifts to second gear at 1700-2000 revs with lockup partially applied (dragging).
I suppose that's also the way it should be in gear 3-4-5 but it isn't, although sometimes when it shifts in these gears you can feel that the transmission is working through torque converter and that the clutch gradually applies after a few seconds until it's fully locked - so i think my transmission doesn't know exactly when to apply the lockup and to what extent...
Plus, i also sometimes have a slight engine rev-up before it upshifts to the next gear in every gear, especially under low torque and trottle, while some other times it's perfectly fine.
Transmission shifts incredibly smooth even if it does that kind of "rev-up" so no clunky engagement at all and since different clutches, brakes and freewheels are applied in the shifting transition, i guess that's also kind of related to the TCC that disengages during the shift so that the converter and the engine rev up a bit before the next gear is engaged.
It's increadibly hard to find any information in the internet about how the TCC should apply in which engine rev section and wether it has to fully lock up or not. I've just found one diagram which shows the TCC apply in relation to input shaft speed and throttle position, but it's a bit difficult for me to interpret this diagram because i don't know how i can measure the input shaft speed and i guess the TCM and therefore the TCC is programmed to the particular engine that is connected to the transmission.
Could you give me any suggestion in this case or maybe provide additional information about whether the TCC has to lock up fully/partially and in which engine rev area?
Thank you very much and greetings from Germany 🖐️
To find out if the TCC should be applied, you'd have to drive it with a scan tool installed and monitor the lockup pid. These, as you know, do have issues regarding the converter.
I have a video on the improvements/enhancements. I would think that the lube reg valve and the overlap valves might help your transmission.
Alright, thank you very much. I have a star diagnosis at my hand so i can monitor all the parameters but it doesn't show the degree to which the TCC should be applied - but I might soon take care of the valve body and install these improvements you mentioned since I also think that the tolerances of the valve bores could be too high
Thank you very much for this very well explained videos, with Plenty of useful details. I watch them again and again.
Very interesting and well presented. A wealth of knowledge here, I'll be watching this again... and again probably! A lot to take in
Thanks!
The TC clutch application is Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) and why when the clutches fail a vibration/shudder can be felt during application.
my sprinter with the 5 speed 722.6 will rev instantly to the rev limiter in park or neutral and has zero engine problems. Not a single code for the engine. The fact that my van has about 5% power in reverse or drive tells me its the torque convertor. it wont even drive over a piece of 2x4. It feels like the more throttle I give the more the lockup clutch is engaging almost like the the extra rpms are giving more hydraulic pressure to the lockup. Anyways, it idles pretty good in drive or reverse, but as soon as you put it into drive you can feel the torque convertor clutch grabbing way too much and you really need to have the brakes on. I have star diagnostic scanner and I have code 2783 torque convertor lockup clutch - The component has an excessive power consumption. Im thinking this means the solenoid, Ive tested the resistance it's in range 2.9 ohms. Also there is one more transmission code 2767 RPM sensor 3 No signal. I'm thinking that's the speed sensor on the conductor plate. If the speed sensor fails, would the TCM be trying to send power to the lockup solenoid? maybe just a small amount just enough to be able to idle, but when I give it gas the rpm will only go up about 200-300rpm and instantly clutch gets locked up. Could this also be why the solenoid is getting excessive power consumption code? Regardless, I've taken the valve body out. Very little clutch wear on the magnet and no metal debris of any kind anywhere. Ive purchased a conductor plate, tcc solenoid, tcc damper valve, and also overlap valves just for the heck of it. Also the TCM is dry and no oil has wicked into it. I Was wondering if you've ever seen anything like this. thanks
Hello, thank you very much for your great videos, they are really cool and greetings from Germany, I have a problem. I hope you can help me, I have now installed a new replacement gearbox with converter 722.640 and now I have the problem, before the car shifts into second gear when driving off, the torque converter clutch slams in. So it closes too early/quickly and opens too late. What's going on? The PWM valve has already been replaced. Glycol test is negative. It's an S211 E270CDI.
Thank you sir, please teach zf 8hp
You are incredibly knowledgeable and I really appreciate you making videos like this. But at the unintended risk of offending you, could i offer some advice that would help someone like me learn? Could you please include some "so what?" Info? In other words, what are the things that happen while driving a vehicle that are affected by some of this info. You mention "issues" a couple times but don't articulate those. For someone like me it's nice to be able to correlate: ie: "if this isn't working right, then you might notice THIS happening while you drive or shift or go up a hill" or etc. etc.
I hope you're not offended. As a teacher myself I have a rule in class that my kids can raise their hand anytime and ask, "so what?" And that allows me to explain how what I'm teaching them will actually affect their lives. (Or in your case what problems they may see in driving) I find this helps my students retain info better as they correlate what they've been taught to a real world application.
Thanks for your knowledge and effort as a teacher.
After a transmission flush my normally operating 722.6 started occasionally slipping on upshifts from second to third gear, sometimes first to second. Any idea as to where could the problem be? Torque converter or some valve from the electronic plate? Thanks a lot, these videos are very informative.
by the way, you do a great job, showing video.
Is failure of the torque converter clutch a common problem in the 722.6? If so, is there a particularly common cause?
A couple years ago, my trans started going into limp mode after driving awhile. I was told the TCC had failed. Sure enough, I opened the pan and found what looked like coffee grounds in the pan. The filter was also clogged. I changed the filter and fluid and it seemed fine after that. This trans only had about 85k miles. To be fair, I had installed an SGA150 valve body about a year prior. SGA = Sound German Automotive. I can't help but wonder if that was somehow related. I haven't yet installed this same VB into the new trans. Loved this shifts, but kinda paranoid.
I knew I needed to get a new converter. And I didn't want to have the down time for a self rebuild of the trans. So I bought a Circle-D converter and a transmission from Mercedes. This is for an SL65 btw.
I just finished watching your most excellent 722.6 complete overhaul video. Going to tackle rebuilding the old trans using your video as a guide. I've done TH350, TH400, 7004R, 4L60e, 4L80e, T56 and a couple Nissan manuals, back in the day. You made the rebuild of the 722.6 look like child's play. :)
When you have time you should make a video on how to install the torque converter in the 722.6 you will find that in the Mercedes service manual or wis the clearance that they say that need to be achieved is unattainable
unobtainable
Hello. What can cause jerk at 1500-1600rpm (lock-up clucth apply on star)?
Thank You !!!
Hi Sean, thank you for the great Video!
I‘m experiencing the cold stall issue on my 3.0 CDI. Before I do anything with the TC, is it worth to try the Transgo Shift Kit for the TC lubrication valve? How big is that chance that this will fix my issue? Thanks in advance.
I am sorry to disagree, but what you call pilot does not help to center at the crank shaft, but it's just a housing for the tip of the transmission input shaft! What "really" centers the torque converter are the bolts from the flex plate, not only it helps for the longitudinal shift, "torque converter set back clearance" fluctuation but also axial angular tilt!
Hi , i bought repaired torque converter and its normal its shakes inside little bit? feels like stuff in is free..just need to be sure is ok before replacement
You are amazing . I have a problem with my W204 with 722.6 only when is cold outside and only at the first start , after starting the engine, when switching the selector from P to R or D, the engine speed drops from approx. 800 revolutions at 700-600 revolutions for a period of 1-3 seconds, after which it returns to the initial position (800 revolutions) if I put directly in D engine it will stop, BUT you feel that the car is forcing itself to leave from under you (the brake is obviously pressed) . What can be ?
What does "Reset torque converter adaption values" mean?
Reset to factory default or reset to 0?
Thank u sir this very important data thanks allot
Hi, I have a jeep with this transmission in it...I get a weird lockup jerk with light throttle in first gear and second
@siu automotive do you know how much input shaft play or movement is normal on the 722.6 transmission. The input shaft seems like it has a lot of play in that bushing.
My symptoms-
Code P0741
TCC slip under load
and shudder on slow down down at 20mph
Fluid looks good , not metal shavings at all
What’s the chance u think the pressure regulator valve is worn
Trans go kit says it fixes p0741
Please help. My transmission feels like it wont lock up on time while above 45mph. Ill be normally increasing speed or cruising and going up a hill, and it is like the car cant increase rpms like it should and during these few seconds, the engine cant rev up any higher and the gas pedal wont respond, but after a few seconds it finally does respond and the engine jerks and then takes off.
I had a tcc solenoid code, so i replaced the solenoid however i am still having this problem like it does not want to go up hill or cruise at higher speed until last minute and then when it finally responds it jerks hard and take off.
Another problem at higher speeds is that the car will have that moment of no response and higher rpms but then suddenly the rpms will either raise or drop and the car will respond again.
I also hear one quick screech sound believed to be from torque convertor everytime i am accelerating from a stop sign no matter if it is light or hard acceleration.
Only once before has the engine revved up to 5k rpms with no increase in speed at 65mph while going up a slight incline, when this one time thing happed, it was as if the transmission was not connected to the engine.
I'm experiencing hard shiftdowns from 2nd to 1st gear at operating temperature. When cold there is no problem.
Ran 187.000 miles and from 2006 and gearoilchange (5 gallon flush) every 37.000 miles.
Sometimes the engine almost seems to want to stall when coming to a hold.
What could be the problems here? Solenoids or control valves or even torque converter pressure issues?
Thanks for great videos
U figure it out?
SHOW!!
12:44 how does the clutch release ? Understand
How do you install this back on the transmission? Sliding it on, and rotating it, until it goes down all the way?
Yes, slide in and spin till you past the stator support splines, input shaft spines, and pump lugs.
I'm also an instructor/teacher for a Canadian company.. As you know it's incredibly difficult to judge your class and their cognitive level.. great work in explaining.. great material..
My son and I are attempting to find and install a 5 or 6 speed transmission on his Jag-xjs. The V-12 was married to a th400.. is it possible and how much TCU do we need, or is there an aftermarket company supplying anything out there? Keep up the great delivery..
hi, did quite a bit of googling around but didn't find anyone with the same issue.
04 r230 sl600 (v12 twin turbo) with 70k miles. driving on a level road, when giving just a slight bit of gas, or letting off, I feel play in the driveline, but I dont think its the driveshaft or the differential, it feels as if there is play inside the transmission itself. what could it be related to, a gearset, a bushing, some bearing? thank you.
Hi,
What might be the cause of harsh 2-3,3-4 shifting when cold ? Feels like TCC engages too fast.
It could be a TCC dragging on. There is an "improvements" video I did that shows some torque converter fixes. This trans seems sensitive to cold operation regarding TCC operation.
We have mercedes w210 v6 1997 year we couldn't fix or find the right automatic gearbox because it s on limp mode it stuck on the third gear we are still driving it like that any way. If I can help me for the exact gearbox
What's the VIN? I can look it up
if torque converter leaks, what should i look for {location}
It would be between the engine and transmission, but it might travel towards the rear while driving because of the air movement.
Hello there, I can’t find your modification video.
I'll be filming that today or tomorrow. Stay tuned!
I think the point of this video is if you got a nag1 go get a new aftermarket torque converter mine is shuddering it sucks
I am not a big fan of this transmission, I own a 2014 Chrysler 300 C 5.7 l all wheel drive and it uses the 5 speed nag1, Aside from an annoying tacometer twitch or twitch I started having surging issues And I didn't get any check engine light for well over 2 years and it got pretty bad, I, I only had the surging when I was driving up hills or if I was on light throttle while accelerating.
After many dealerships and a lot of sensors being changed I changed my torque converter which cost me $2000, Now the surging is gone