Thank you for all the work you've done in your videos with the testing. I have looked for some solid testing because I am trying to decide if I want to go with a LVHP or a HVLP system. FINALLY because of your research, I have the answer I've been looking for! Many thanks!!
The metal clamp may secure it better, but that doesn't necessarily mean it seals well. Maybe put a piece of weatherstripping in its clamping surface I.D.
THANK YOU for all the testing you did for us!. Timing was perfect for me. Entertaining and very useful information. Now onto plumbing the dust collection in my small shop.
I think all the focus on 90s is for high volume low pressure systems. You're using a high pressure low volume system, which is less affected by these flow restrictions. That being said, I appreciate the science because I'm building a tool cart with a shop vac on an auto switch and this saved me going through a bunch of trouble bending PVC trying to make things perfect. I'll just use some flex hose I think 😁
I've noticed there's really no difference in suction on anything less than 10 or so ft. So, I agree with you, if you are just having a vac to one tool flex hose is the easiest option.
Very thorough testing. Well thought out and good job dispelling the naysayers opinion with fact. At 5:56 you said bigger was better. Have you considered that *2* 5gal buckets may even be better than the 7gal? such as in Chris Notap's videos? At the very least you would not have to empty the dust collection as often. Thank you again for this information!
I did see his video a few years ago when he stacked them essentially making it 10gal, but I want to see how far I can take it. I picked up a 55gal drum the other week and I'm going to fit the dust stopper to the top and see what happens!
Man .... that is just fantastic, i'm in process of installing my dust extraction piping right now and i was planing to do exactly the same type of tests before setting everything up, you kind of making things much easier for me, yet i'm still gonna do my tests :)
But 90 degree angles make a difference to turbulence? I’d be interested in understanding if there is a difference when the system is under load (i.e. has dust in it). Also velocity vs volume flow ? Dust extraction is typically focussed on high volume ( not velocity) so you’ll see that it’ll pick up dust further away from the nozzle than a vacuum will (ie an issue for most tools isn’t speed its volume and range of effectiveness). Also worth noting for most people it’s fine dust that is the health issue so shop vac might not be enough and while they keep the mess down you should probably wear a dust mask too. (Bunch of commentary on dust collection becoming a dust pump)
I've looked into trying to test the flow under pressure, but the only way I believe is to use specialized airflow meters such as a hotwire inserted into the tube. But even then, as dust flows over the probe it will probably clog up and give a bad reading. So, I’m still working on a way to test the system under pressure. I do agree with you, ideally a LPHV system is used for dust extraction but most small shops use a wet/dry vac because it’s easily available and portable so I wanted to focus on what would help the average small shop diy’er such as myself.
Another awesome vid! I'm a new subscriber here. I learned a lot and am completely surprised by the results. Would love it if you compared the Oneida Dust Deputy 2.5 to the Home Depot Dust Deputy! They (Oneida) say it improves airflow over the lid-style dust separators,, but does it??
Great info for a shop vac style setup. I’m not sure if you have a planer in your shop, but if you do does the shop vac keep up without clogging? As always thanks for the content
Someone else asked this and I tested on the Hart, Ridgid, and DeWalt Stealthsonic. The only different I noticed was the wind speed drop by about 5% on each, so not much of a difference. I was able to get a higher overall wind speed by taking the filter completely off and just having the bag but the bag did rip on the fan housing on the DeWalt and Ridgid.
Having a very similar work space from mine these tests have been so useful and insightful on figuring out my own dust collection system. Now if I can only figure out a practical and efficient way to clear the valuable floor space of both the Vacuum/Dustopper maybe on the wall or separate adjacent space with remote control then I’d be on to something 🤔😂. Otherwise great content and inspiration from your setup👍🙏.
I just thought of this yesterday! I was running the shop vac for over an hour and the noise was driving me nuts. I was thinking about making a sound proof box for the shop vac and leaving the dust stopper exposed for easy access to emptying it. But just like you it's going to take up a lot of valuable floor space.
I’m having the same challenges and contemplation issues on how to solve both dilemmas with limiting noise and gaining floor space for sure. I think I will go the route of mounting Dustopper on the wall for access and create a short PVC run to the actual Vacuum out of sight out of mind per say in my case an overhead storage area. May not be the best solution but for now along with your help in your setup, it has provided me the necessary brain storming ideas 💡🙏🏼😉. Not if only I can prioritize what project to finish up first from a few other side tracked projects I’m currently working on as well 😂 it just never ends. Thanks again.
Interesting findings. However i believe the 45 vs 90 vs all kind of bents might affect a low pressure-high volume dust collection system differently compared to a shop vac or other high pressure dust collection system (like Oneida Supercell or Record Camvac). I think its one of the major pro of high pressure system. Even flexible hose won't affect the performance much.
I agree, I do want to get a LPHV system just to do a bunch of comparisons and tests. But, I don’t really want to spend that much money for one then not really have a use for it after doing the tests.
What you didn't measure is the suction that you lose by having a vertical component to your system. Ideally it's best to have your components sloped down. Why do I say this. As a dentist we use suction systems all the time. Vacuuming up is always to be avoided. I forgot all the physic laws behind that observation but there it is. So, if you have the opportunity to design and build your system keep that in mind. Install a remote switch if needed. Every dental office uses remote switches. Now that I'm retired I'll keep your ideas in mind when I build in my vacuum system in my new shop. For what it's worth the industry standard in dentistry is 2 inch PVC. Great video. I subscribed to your channel. Thanks
All those 45's cancelled out the 90's that's why you had good flow! 🤪 I kid, I kid... Good video. I too like to go against the naysayers. I am using some HVAC Tee's instead of Wye's in my new dust collector setup and it still works perfect. You know, because "they" say not to.
Can you do all these tests again, but checking air pressure instead of flow rate? In an incompressible fluid (ie water) pressure and flow are perfectly linearly related, but air is compressible. Also, to all the commenters who said that 90 degree bends reduce air flow, none of the bends on a PVC pipe setup will be 90. The 90 to avoid is the sharp right angle 90 that you can get in ductwork. Even the tightest PVC 90 has some sweep to it. To test static pressure, make a manometer. It's a U shaped pipe filled with coloured water with a ruler attached to one or both ends. Mark the 0" where it is just sitting with no vacuum applied, then measure again by feeding a foot or so of hose from one end into the intake of your dust collector and measure the difference in height of the water. If you only put a ruler on one side, just double the measurement, because the low side will be low by the amount the high side is high. Your shop vac should have come with a "water lift" rating, that is the measurement you should get straight from the shop vac hose with no attachments. Static pressure at a given CFM is the important measurement because that's what actually affects how much dust you can pick up with the system. CFM can stay high under no load conditions over incredible lengths of pipe, but then once you put some load on it by introducing dust and chips it can suddenly drop off, based on my own experiences with dust collection. Unfortunately I no longer have a shop to do these tests myself, so I'd love to see someone tackle them.
Nice work. Thanks. And here I was trying to figure out how much 2 inline cyclone separators reduced flow.
Thank you for all the work you've done in your videos with the testing. I have looked for some solid testing because I am trying to decide if I want to go with a LVHP or a HVLP system. FINALLY because of your research, I have the answer I've been looking for! Many thanks!!
thank you for running these tests. It is very useful information to setting up my own dust collection system
Glad it was helpful!
The metal clamp may secure it better, but that doesn't necessarily mean it seals well.
Maybe put a piece of weatherstripping in its clamping surface I.D.
THANK YOU for all the testing you did for us!. Timing was perfect for me. Entertaining and very useful information. Now onto plumbing the dust collection in my small shop.
Glad it was helpful! If you have any questions please reach out.
Love your content and delivery. Great follow-up videos!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you so much!
I think all the focus on 90s is for high volume low pressure systems. You're using a high pressure low volume system, which is less affected by these flow restrictions.
That being said, I appreciate the science because I'm building a tool cart with a shop vac on an auto switch and this saved me going through a bunch of trouble bending PVC trying to make things perfect. I'll just use some flex hose I think 😁
I've noticed there's really no difference in suction on anything less than 10 or so ft. So, I agree with you, if you are just having a vac to one tool flex hose is the easiest option.
Great video! Have you done any testing to see of or how the flex hose or different size PVC affect performance?
Not yet! I'm working on another testing video and I'm adding that to the list!
Very thorough testing. Well thought out and good job dispelling the naysayers opinion with fact. At 5:56 you said bigger was better. Have you considered that *2* 5gal buckets may even be better than the 7gal? such as in Chris Notap's videos? At the very least you would not have to empty the dust collection as often. Thank you again for this information!
I did see his video a few years ago when he stacked them essentially making it 10gal, but I want to see how far I can take it. I picked up a 55gal drum the other week and I'm going to fit the dust stopper to the top and see what happens!
Setting up a tiny shop shortly. Glad for your insights
Man .... that is just fantastic, i'm in process of installing my dust extraction piping right now and i was planing to do exactly the same type of tests before setting everything up, you kind of making things much easier for me, yet i'm still gonna do my tests :)
LOL, I don't blame you! let me know if you come up with different results.
😊
But 90 degree angles make a difference to turbulence? I’d be interested in understanding if there is a difference when the system is under load (i.e. has dust in it). Also velocity vs volume flow ? Dust extraction is typically focussed on high volume ( not velocity) so you’ll see that it’ll pick up dust further away from the nozzle than a vacuum will (ie an issue for most tools isn’t speed its volume and range of effectiveness). Also worth noting for most people it’s fine dust that is the health issue so shop vac might not be enough and while they keep the mess down you should probably wear a dust mask too. (Bunch of commentary on dust collection becoming a dust pump)
I've looked into trying to test the flow under pressure, but the only way I believe is to use specialized airflow meters such as a hotwire inserted into the tube. But even then, as dust flows over the probe it will probably clog up and give a bad reading. So, I’m still working on a way to test the system under pressure.
I do agree with you, ideally a LPHV system is used for dust extraction but most small shops use a wet/dry vac because it’s easily available and portable so I wanted to focus on what would help the average small shop diy’er such as myself.
@@rightsidedownstudioyeah, fair enough- still interesting, regardless and I have no idea bout testing flow either :-D
Thanks! Keep the vids coming. I'm really learning a lot.
Thank you!!
Another awesome vid! I'm a new subscriber here. I learned a lot and am completely surprised by the results.
Would love it if you compared the Oneida Dust Deputy 2.5 to the Home Depot Dust Deputy! They (Oneida) say it improves airflow over the lid-style dust separators,, but does it??
Great info for a shop vac style setup. I’m not sure if you have a planer in your shop, but if you do does the shop vac keep up without clogging? As always thanks for the content
I do, I have the Dewalt planer and the shop vac keeps up with it perfect even with a dust separation system.
Thanks for this video. All other videos seem to want you to buy an expensive unit
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for doing all that testing.! I run a shop vac system. Enjoy the videos!
Glad you like them!
Love the start🤣
Thanks
Does using a vacuum bag instead of a filter make a difference?
Someone else asked this and I tested on the Hart, Ridgid, and DeWalt Stealthsonic. The only different I noticed was the wind speed drop by about 5% on each, so not much of a difference. I was able to get a higher overall wind speed by taking the filter completely off and just having the bag but the bag did rip on the fan housing on the DeWalt and Ridgid.
@@rightsidedownstudio awesome…. Thanks for the reply👍. Great vids
Quality video as usual!!
Thank you 🙏
Having a very similar work space from mine these tests have been so useful and insightful on figuring out my own dust collection system. Now if I can only figure out a practical and efficient way to clear the valuable floor space of both the Vacuum/Dustopper maybe on the wall or separate adjacent space with remote control then I’d be on to something 🤔😂. Otherwise great content and inspiration from your setup👍🙏.
I just thought of this yesterday! I was running the shop vac for over an hour and the noise was driving me nuts. I was thinking about making a sound proof box for the shop vac and leaving the dust stopper exposed for easy access to emptying it. But just like you it's going to take up a lot of valuable floor space.
I’m having the same challenges and contemplation issues on how to solve both dilemmas with limiting noise and gaining floor space for sure. I think I will go the route of mounting Dustopper on the wall for access and create a short PVC run to the actual Vacuum out of sight out of mind per say in my case an overhead storage area. May not be the best solution but for now along with your help in your setup, it has provided me the necessary brain storming ideas 💡🙏🏼😉. Not if only I can prioritize what project to finish up first from a few other side tracked projects I’m currently working on as well 😂 it just never ends. Thanks again.
Interesting findings. However i believe the 45 vs 90 vs all kind of bents might affect a low pressure-high volume dust collection system differently compared to a shop vac or other high pressure dust collection system (like Oneida Supercell or Record Camvac). I think its one of the major pro of high pressure system. Even flexible hose won't affect the performance much.
I agree, I do want to get a LPHV system just to do a bunch of comparisons and tests. But, I don’t really want to spend that much money for one then not really have a use for it after doing the tests.
What you didn't measure is the suction that you lose by having a vertical component to your system. Ideally it's best to have your components sloped down. Why do I say this. As a dentist we use suction systems all the time. Vacuuming up is always to be avoided. I forgot all the physic laws behind that observation but there it is. So, if you have the opportunity to design and build your system keep that in mind. Install a remote switch if needed. Every dental office uses remote switches. Now that I'm retired I'll keep your ideas in mind when I build in my vacuum system in my new shop. For what it's worth the industry standard in dentistry is 2 inch PVC. Great video. I subscribed to your channel. Thanks
Thanks for the advice and sub!
All those 45's cancelled out the 90's that's why you had good flow! 🤪 I kid, I kid... Good video. I too like to go against the naysayers. I am using some HVAC Tee's instead of Wye's in my new dust collector setup and it still works perfect. You know, because "they" say not to.
How dare you not use the proper junction!! 😂
Can you do all these tests again, but checking air pressure instead of flow rate? In an incompressible fluid (ie water) pressure and flow are perfectly linearly related, but air is compressible. Also, to all the commenters who said that 90 degree bends reduce air flow, none of the bends on a PVC pipe setup will be 90. The 90 to avoid is the sharp right angle 90 that you can get in ductwork. Even the tightest PVC 90 has some sweep to it.
To test static pressure, make a manometer. It's a U shaped pipe filled with coloured water with a ruler attached to one or both ends. Mark the 0" where it is just sitting with no vacuum applied, then measure again by feeding a foot or so of hose from one end into the intake of your dust collector and measure the difference in height of the water. If you only put a ruler on one side, just double the measurement, because the low side will be low by the amount the high side is high. Your shop vac should have come with a "water lift" rating, that is the measurement you should get straight from the shop vac hose with no attachments.
Static pressure at a given CFM is the important measurement because that's what actually affects how much dust you can pick up with the system. CFM can stay high under no load conditions over incredible lengths of pipe, but then once you put some load on it by introducing dust and chips it can suddenly drop off, based on my own experiences with dust collection. Unfortunately I no longer have a shop to do these tests myself, so I'd love to see someone tackle them.
Thnx a lot ,.,.,.very super duper
Thanks and welcome
Very good video. Thanks
Glad you liked it!
I would think the leakage around the blast gates would have a larger effect then location.
it does, even the really good metal blast gates have a small amount of leakage and the more you have just make the problem worse.
great vid
Thanks