So You Have Been Benched
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Being on the bench sucks but there are a number of reasons why and things you can do to get back off!
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Swag: shop.spreadshi...
Twitter: @Preachgaming
Live Stream - twitch.tv/preachlfw
The Good Book - / preachgaming
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Having enough raiders to bench some. Sounds like a nice world to live in.
You could always recruit more raiders if you simply need "bodies". Quality raiders on the other hand.. I think BfA took a toll on a lot of guilds.
Exactly
@@r.gletscher5162 Even that's hard atm. Tried to find some "bodies" for heroic, but nope only people applying who clearly are leftovers because of their personality.
i guess Im asking the wrong place but does anyone know a method to get back into an instagram account?
I stupidly lost the account password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Orlando Aiden I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Jokes on you, we can't bench players because all of our raiders are quitting the game.
Go away spazz maticus
Novestador you’re absolutely right! We have a lot of players in our mythic guild we would love to bench because they have the pug attitude Preach mentioned in his video. But we can’t bench or replace simply because we can’t afford to lose any raiders right now. BFA has been rough on raid recruitment, that’s for sure!
I wish so badly that the game was in a place that wasn't terrible for 90% of my time online. I really miss raid nights with my guild, but everything else involved to be ready for raiding is chore after chore, it's just not worth my $15/month. And if I'm not playing to the best that I can then I also feel like I'm letting my team/myself down, so I'm not going to be one of those people who logs in only for raid nights and ends up lagging behind for no reason.
heros 4 lol
flmao
Now whenever Preach says something like "Yeah we did a +33 earlier today, y'know super casual and chill nothing too serious" we can bust out the "Lol you got benched tho" and completely ignore the context of said benching :D
Truth
We can now officially say that to any opinion he has.
Oh you’re making a Druid class guide for BFA? But you got benched though....
"You beat me in a 1v1, mate? Yeah but like you got benched tho, so"
That furry example was way too specific to not be based on a true event.
I usually play preach's videos on the background as I do wq and other casual stuff. I actually had to go back to see if I heard that correctly, it was sooo weird.
Well, I'm sorry, but if there's a long pause between pulls, I'm going to browse some porn while I wait.
He seems to have something against furries and hentai...
I bet you would find a folder with those things on his computer...
Nathaniel Hagan found the weeb
@@Johndoe-gd4tb I'm less of a furry more of a weeb thank you very much!
Blizz put a lot of people on the bench.
g-kicked not benched
Those laid off memes will never get old.
Too soon lol
18:10 perfect example of how rude preach is, just swoops in and cuts the previous guy off `:(
Lol
Remember that time Preach let Bay speak... No, I don't remember that either xD
rood dood
me me me me me
Hi Mike have you have consider making a video about raidleading in general? Would be interesting to know what you think which skills a raidlead has to have and why.
Keep going, im enjoying your content.
Please this
Interesting topic +1
Yes please!
I'd be curious to see how other people view raid leading and what's important and what's not.
@@Kayvel54 As a (former - I stopped playing halfway through Uldir) mythic raid leader, honestly communication and being able to take responsibility is what I would consider #1. If someone fucks up, you need to be able to tell them exactly how they did and WHY it matters that they did it wrong. And if that someone is you, you gotta be the first person to call yourself out. Tends to happen that when a raider fucks up, they die. When the raid leader fucks up, everyone dies. Preach pretty well covers communication in this video.
#2, being willing to put in the time to learn not only your specific roles in the raid, but everyone else's as well. You need to know when healers are going to be needing CD, when the tank is going to die without an external, when DPS should hit their burst, when they should stop, and where people need to be standing. On top of that, you gotta be willing to help other people in specific if they are struggling (going over logs after raid, etc).
#3, you have to be good at your class and mechanics in general. No one wants to listen to a raid leader who is constantly facetanking the floor. And you will get shit for your low damage while raid leading from time to time. It's just a plain fact that when you are trying to coordinate 20 people on a fight, you will not be able to pay attention to your own dps nearly as much. Counter that by being REALLY good at your class so you can do the rotation etc while barely paying attention to it. Hell, every now and then maybe let someone else raid lead for a pull or two and just go 100% focused on yourself just to show people you can do it.
Definitely interested in hearing other people's opinions about it too though, I love talking about raiding :P
As a new-ish RL (I started leading my guild at the end of ToS, when our previous RL retired and I didnt want the guild to disband, so I took the mantle) I can tell everyone that this is a very unforgiving job. First of all, you need to learn that you cant take everything upon yourself, that was my first lesson learned, you need a good team of officers and loot council that you can trust to help you whenever you need them. I hate benching people, because it makes me feel bad for them but there is always someone that has to be benched in a mythic guild roster. I usually bench people based on boss loot on farm and to get people the missing kills, but for prog it usually just goes with raid composition and better classes like Preach mentioned. I would gladly bench myself sometimes if not for the fact that I literally have to be there, as being a live DBM announcer actually helps others immensely (you actually have no idea, how fast people forget when you dont call things out). Overall I found this video even helpful for me, learned something new that I will use from now on in terms of encouraging people at least, so thanks for the content.
Man this gives me flashbacks to raid leading Mythic Mistress Sasszine. That was a fight with like 17 different timers and I was just basically open mic'ing the fucking DBM list the entire time. You're 100% right that it helps people immensely though, even if they don't realize it.
I'm in almost exactly the same boat as you. We currently have 30ish raiders as we are just about to finish heroic. I had to learn the same lessons you did too; the hard way
When I was a part of ToS progression with my guild on Mythic, I was told to put my items up for loot, and even when it was an upgrade for me, I was still never given the gear. Long story short, I was benched and the reason they gave me was that I didn’t have the dps req to continue on progression, and all I could think was “you never gave me any gear, how am I supposed to keep up if I am never given any loot, and my drops are always going to someone else”. I don’t know how many people have ever been in that struggle, I know you want to funnel to your highest damage/knowledge people, but being benched for that same reason, seems a bit unreasonable
gitgud
Very well thought and well made video - but i feel that ppl in preach guild are willing to give up stuff is that they have an assurance that at some point once the raid is on farm - they can be part of the farm team. Usually that means that they can be part of at least 10 last boss kill -- other lower CE mid-tier guild, they only care to kill the last boss once and usually can only achieve this last boss kill in maybe the final 3-4 weeks before the next tier release - and once they are done, they generally go on "break"; leaving all the benched players stranded and ultimately these benched players felt cheated for this. This is the problem most players faced in the bench, which is what they are actually sounding out about.
It is hard for the bench players in this low-mid tier CE guild to provide loyalty or commitment because they are in the dilemma as they expect these low-mid tier CE guild will utmost do 1 kill and be done for the tier; the benched player will then have to instantly decide if they means they have to move on before they lose sight to have a chance to raid in that level and achieve CE.
"it happesn to every class" unless rogue or lock
nah both classes have been down bottom
Nah, remember that there have been some weird-ass fights in this game.
unless priest...
@@tonyrobinson1088 Yeh I remember that. Was a bad time to be a lock
It's happening to me right now and I'm a lock :/
if you need to be told that giving away a 0,2% upgrade to get another guy a 7% upgrade is the right thing to do, then my pessimist mind thinks that there is no help for this guy.
Thats the problem unless u in a top 100 guild people dont do that anymore they like its a 1% upgrade for me so who cares if its a 20% for u.
Okay well the 20% is an exaggeration but you get what I mean.
I use to give away my gear to guildies when it was a bigger upgrade for them but not anymore cause when it became my turn they like no i really want this loot. Im like ok then im not giving u shit anymore.
The sad part is, that that is 100% the attitude of a huge majority in the pug and low-tier raiding world. When you scrolled through the forums there were dozens and dozens of people saying crap like "when i kill the boss, I deserve loot", completely and utterly self-centered, not viewing the whole picture at all. That's the kind of people, because of which everybody is now stuck with this overly complicated way of trading loot back and forth over a simple masterlooter.
I kind of even missed the time, when this changed to becoming the norm, because back when i started, i was actually raised to think in the way, that it is a group effort. Dunno, might have just been because one of my first raids was literally lady vashj and that was a fight that already havily depended on playing together instead of doing your own thing, but ye.... people these days are just "me me me"
You know, m+ is a thing now as well, and many players raid mythic just for the gear to use in m+, where giving it to some other raider who might not play m+ doesn't help them. Especially in guilds that might never clear mythic to give around loot freely and progress the entire tier
@@niklasstahl98 if only i could get gear from M+ only gear i get is from the weekly chest i have the worst luck in the world when it comes to WoW loot. You know something is wrong when u can run five M+ in a row and not get a single loot drop, and I'm not exaggerating at all literally i wish i was. I run Raids and M+ for fun not gear otherwise if it was for gear i might as well stop playing. Sometimes i think blizz hates me i can have a alt geared in a few days gear drops like candy but on my main blizz like no gear for u fuck off.
If people understood what preach is talking about then we wouldnt lose master loot.
Finishing a cast on a warrior? What is he casting? Hearthstone?
*Bruh* 😂😂😂
Shhh he still thinks he's in TBC. He's talking about Slam, obviously!
The OP super rarely specced into Warrior Bubble.
Could be Bladestorm
@@Ecko1915 I think you can still cast rallying cry while doing bladestorm actually
This is great Mike! It also pertains to lower difficulty/up and coming guilds. So much of what you outlined here is or has been going on in my guild. We are new to the raiding scene, but getting it together, and I just wrote a piece about the ‘team’ and posted this video with it to drive the points home. Awesome stuff man! 👍
Once got benched because an officers irl friend started playing and wanted in, they had not played since MoP. Not gonna lie I was fuming
LOL preach, this video is perfectly timed for my guild. We have soooo many farm raiders it's murdering our progression.
But that parse tho.
@@clayjones6641 Pretty much, Thanks to me losing my shit on discord it finally woke up one of the dps and weirdly enough the boss died the next pull when we were miles away from a consistant kill.
Last guild I left there was zero communication about any changes to raid comp. It created a lot of drama in the guild so I peaced out.
I remember the days of bring the player not the class, I miss those days.
Time to form Team B, if Drama time taught me anything, Team B are the underdogs.
Ah the dreaded group 5
This was certainly eye-opening for me of how bad some of gm:s and raid leaders have been while I was still looking for a guild.
Many of them hardly spoke a single word to me and then one day just tells me I failed the trial. One guild even strung me along for over 2 months, then I get dragged onto Discord like 2 weeks before BFA and they tell me I failed the trial. Like you couldn't have told me that in May when you decided to stop mandatory raids until BFA?
That whispered “it’s not your fault” in the beginning is so damn funny and out of left field.
I’m so glad you’re doing videos like this again. I miss how you themed some of the old videos about random things like this.
I want to give a somewhat different take: if you invest hours of your life into gearing and preparing for progression, only to be benched, it is 100% acceptable to tell the guild in question to stuff it and find another guild.
If this is your mentality than you basically have no place in a progress raid anyway. So yeah, I can confirm that you should just leave. Find yourself a nice heroic guild were this stuff flies.
This is exactly what I mean. Not everyone can handle that shit, and if you aren't up to being told your effort isn't up to snuff (be it because of performance, your class not being on par with others, or any other reason) there's no shame whatsoever in deciding that sort of environment isn't for you. I say this as someone who has been a raid leader in various games for the better part of a decade: it's okay to not want to be benched, and it's okay to not ACCEPT being benched. When you're already dedicating leisure time on other peoples' schedule, and for whatever reason the determination is made that you have to sit out, it's a totally acceptable position to say, "No, I've put in the effort and I'm not alright with being benched. I'll play elsewhere". If your raid leader takes issue with that, well: fuck 'em.
I was a semi casual mythic raider in Uldir with a WQ ring (330 ilvl with a socket). So I played frost DK at that time and the only rings I could get my hands on had a shit ton of haste. Which was useless to me and non the other rings I got wouldn't be an upgrade bc of that. We downed mythic Zek'voz for the first time I believe and the mastery crit ring dropped to one of our tanks, which they put on a roll. U see, I don't mind losing a roll: unless the ring goes to a resto shaman and it's only a 5 ilvl upgrade to them with the same stats.
I was never entitled to that ring, but in my mind the ring would've been more useful on me (I was lowest ilvl from the raid, still managing to be in top 5 DPS whilst doing mechanics; our raidgroup had some unfortunate ppl who would just die to HC mechanics). But I can still remember the anger I felt when I as a player always thought about the big picture when it came to loot and not just my convenient and a slight boost to my character.
Having started raiding in ICC and all the way through to Uldir (heroic raider as we know it today) i can say that it's probably the end of my raiding career, which probably means the end of playing WoW. I just loved the idea of getting the best gear from raids, and the fixed raid sizes and lockouts. I struggled through WoD and Legion, but i just don't have fun anymore. I know people here don't care, but i just wanted to write this nonetheless.
The two last guilds iv been in have been obsessed with Dmg meters. The current guild im in the GM constantly links dmg meters ( m+ in perticular) in GC even on his alts. The gm before would ignore everyone and spark lust when it was good for him. It drives me nuts, i really feel like the removal of Details etc would be soo much better for the games culture. But maybe thats just my oldschool ( EQ ) thinking.
So I was benched due to being away for heroic week and the first half of mythic week. Fair enough. I still logged on during raid time when I got back as I was set to standby on the mythic day that I was at home for. Then I was set to out on the wednesday raid, not standby... right... now all of my raid invites were deleted by one of the officers. I still have "raider" rank, but I'm not invited to the raider's heroic clear. I get to go to the social raids if I want.
I would be okay with this except there has been no fucking communication from the officers as to why I am not invited to events.
16:53 Comfortability is a big thing. It's weird when you understand this and a lot of your raid doesn't. I used to discourage our raid leader from changing the strat on the fly because it would massively hamper the comfortability of the raid and snowball. Stick to a strategy for at least 5-10 wipes, then try something else and stick to that for 5-10. Don't keep changing the strat on the fly.
I offered to bench my self alot durong antorus mythic farm, because there were always some who needed to be benched from the healer team.
I said I don't mind to sit out so the other healers could get gear and playtime.. My artifact was highest on the realm, didn't need ap, had my bis gear so hoping for titanforging or giving the other healers their chance to get their bis list complete..
I went for the 2nd part..
in the end of Legion they had to make the new roster for BFA raid comp.. aaand I got demoted from being a raider because I never were there.. I was always online on raids, just giving the other healers more raid time since I didn't need the gear.. So morale of the story.. don't suggest yourself for the bench too much, might backfire. better to fight for the spot even on farm
People disappearing after crucial jobs have been assigned to them is the one thing that drives me insane. I've always hated the "tank/healer" married couple for this reason.
Unless you have a wife that raids with you. That was my case during Burning Legion. I was paladin MT and she raided with us. She would walk in the door from work and go why isn't supper ready yet? We have a raid in an hour!
@@garygsp3 Right now our guild has a healer married couple, shits awesome.
Don't hate us, we did not even play in the same raid ... I mean, which normal married couple would play in the same raid at the same times? If the kids require special attention at least one parent should be able to deal with it, while the other keeps raiding. Does not work when both raiding at the same time.
@@garygsp3 Good times, mine prepared me supper, because she was earlier at home and her raid was starting later. The dream for a progress raider.
Personal loot without trading restrictions. I call the current system: "Selfish loot"
From a non-raider’s perspective,
Perhaps people get so “selfish” with loot because they are afraid of being left by the way-side if their character doesn’t get the correct drops (which results in less dmg/healing/sponginess).
I don’t know how valid that fear is, but if people don’t want to get benched then they are likely to be pissy about keeping any upgrade they can.
As always, a crispy video. You brought up Blizz's excuse for removing ML and it got me thinking. I came back to progression mythic raiding a bit after BFA. The realm I had been on since Vanilla used to have one of the guilds who full cleared Naxx40 but has since dropped to something like the bottom 10 in population. If Blizz is truly hearing all this complaining about entitled raiders complaining about their loot "being taken" this may be in small part true because many of them are marooned on these dead as hell realms. I ended up joining a mythic guild on my dead realm (1 of 2... both alliance, RIP horde people stranded) and shortly after they decided it was past time to transfer to greener pastures, which I had honestly already been prepping for so it was great. But think about that environment. So many dead realms probably have 1 maybe 2 guilds available to do actual content with. So much of the guild competition many of us know from TBC/WotLK era is gone so surely a lot of these guilds are rotten in terms of leadership. It may be the case that some of these people ARE being abused a bit in the loot department sometimes. With more realms dead than ever, this ends up being a significant amount of people. Well that's my thought anyway. I'm definitely a bit jaded since I had to raise millions of gold to transfer all my toons off that dead rock to a server where I could enjoy the game properly and I know a lot of people are in the same position. That's a lot of people stuck in a shitty situation where their realm is not a good environment for them to really enjoy the game and some probably don't know how/where to go or probably (with the state of BFA) don't really care to fork out a lot of cash to improve the situation that let's be honest, Blizz have let stagnate and done very little to remedy on their end.
in ffxiv it was like, i came back to the game after my dad died and my healing was so garbage in Savage Alexander prog that instead of 'benching' me they said they were all going to 'take a break' from raiding and then quietly deleted and remade the raid discord without me in it. Apparently it's a super common move in JP raid statics to like, just remake the static without the bad players in it lmao. Somehow made me feel even worse than I was at the time
Wonder how many raid leaders wish they could turn off the entire raids damage meters sometimes..
Even though I've raided in mythic guilds(and heroic before mythic) always, I've only ever been in a guild you describe once. It feels like the struggle has always been about lifting the bottom enough to beat the boss rather than everyone boosting everyone so the group rises.
This is why I don't raid. I've been in guild raids where I was #5 on DPS and I was booted because I wasn't one of the top DPS in the raid and they wanted to make room for another healer. Like 4 healers weren't enough for heroic Argus. So screw it I don't need this kind of headaches. After that I left that guild, they couldn't value its members. That was when I decided to stop raiding, now I play for fun.
Had a GM in a guild I was in once get pissed off and actually kick the Raid Lead b/c the Raid Lead BENCHED the GM b/c they(the GM) sucked, and refused to change their game play and work on their troubled spots to better themselves to better the raid....Needless to say, I left that guild shortly there after.
This is an interesting thing to listen to, as myself being a newer raid lead trying to understand how much I need to be a leader and a friend. To understand who should stay and who don't fit on the team. Gearing newer players and try and teach players on what to do. Thank you for talking about this Preach :)
I'm a GM/RL of a Latinamerican guild that's trying to break into mythic progress and I wish everyone in my guild could see this (language being the issue). We have gone through the same issues that you talk about and some people percieve that getting the bench is something horrifying or don't understand how trying to be a team player puts you way higher on the list than another guy who only comes for his loot. Also that what we are looking for is people we enjoy playing with.
Thanks for your videos preacher, keep up the good work
My entire raid team was benched when everyone quit...
This video should be required viewing and a written test to those stat padding parse monkies on progression.
"Raid leaders" who judge people by FOTM and what the no life world first guilds do are the worst and are very common.
Or benched for a GM/Officers GF who is terrible.
Uldir was the first time i got benched since i started raiing and yea it crushed me pretty bad. I remember feeling like a complete scrub.
"It is a love based on giving and receiving as well as having and sharing. And the love that they give and have is shared and received. And through this having and giving and sharing and receiving, we too can share and love and have… and receive." - Joey Tribbiani.
Rofl
Great video preach! I use to be a progression raider from bc to warlords but i play casual now cause i just dont see the point anymore with the state of the game but neither here nor there and anothet discussion another time. Just wanted to say GREAT VIDEO BUD!... Agree 100 percent with everything u said i miss bc. I loved progressing as a guild i was the 3rd highest ranked gear mage on my server and its because my guild was like a family we look after eachother i miss those days man. Hope they come back with classic but i think reducing the raid size to 25 back then really made people have to work together and become closer cause no more could u carry 15 people on your raid like with 40 man and berserk timer were brought in all that i loved it man best gaming expirence i ever had. My best buds were a warrior, druid and a warlock man we use to tear it up together and laugh and have a ball
How do you handle a situation where your raid lead belongs on the bench over several of the benched raiders?
Loved that Good Will Hunting insert for the intro! Good stuff Mike!
I play enhance and I'm on the bench all time.. Best thing you could do is being prepared if it's time to shine.. ^_^
I just got benched, hopped into a heroic pug and within one hour the raid leader offered to pay for my server transfer. This is the fourth server transfer offer I've had since January. My old guild leader contacted me the next day and begged me to come back and I laughed at him - I'm paying to play this game, not be benched. WOW is currently in such a disastrous state raid leaders might need to think twice before they blow people off like they could in the good old days.
So I argued pretty hard to my officer not to bench me for mythic opulence progression because I knew my class (disco priest) would do pretty well on that boss. When that day came I fucked up so many times and they didn't even bench me. I just felt so much like a dickhead for messing up so much is was honestly aweful.
Hearing you talk about the progression made me realise how much of a asshole I can be when linking meters and stuff. I slacked a fair bit coming into this raid and honestly I do kinda feel regret it. I don't intentionally try and fuck up for the raid, although Im starting to see why people would think that. I get a fair bit of freedom in my cd's and stuff and try to use this as best as possible. Seeing myself actually do well does make me want to share it and idunno if I should just stop it.
One thing I know for sure tho, I'm gonna try and use this advice, stop slacking and hopefully get to be just a better teammate than before.
One way to tell if you are being selfish is to listen to yourself when you explain the situation. If you are constantly using “I” while explaining, you are probably being selfish.
Preeeeach! This is the day after the first time I've ever been benched. Couldn't have been timed more perfectly. Love you and this helps. Thanks!
Honestly preacher I haven’t stopped by in awhile I used to love your videos and I enjoyed this one! I kind of regret not sending in a story bout my wow experiences damn. Idk if I could ever go back but wow was the best experience I’ve had gaming back in wotlk and cata was epic I was on a somewhat dead server but I was doing heroic raids consistently mist of pandaria is when I got number one prot warrior! Being a tank I was set because I found it easy and it was nice just worrying bout tanking but I really miss my raid group idk if anyone can relate I raided with that crew for like 4 years climbed the ranks to a raid leader then I even got promoted to officer our guild wasn’t the best but one of the best on our servers I was young at the time and had a lot of free time so I mastered wow I no longer have that time lol funny thing is I lied about my age and got into an adult only guild I bet they appreciated the grind I used to do for the guild :) good times sorry for the long read
It’s important to note that heroic raids were heroic raids back then not normal I know they changed the system right when I was leaving
You play a game to wait playing the game, it’s tragic.
I had always just raided heroic and decided to give mythic a try so I tried out for a mythic guild after the 4th raid I figured out that it was definitely not for me was having 0 fun wiping 60 plus times each raid just cannot fathom how people enjoy that
I thought im selfless, but after seeing this video, I know im kinda in the middle now. Definitely eye opening video just in time for my trial. Thanks Mike.
oof. 3rd part about giving and receiving loot hurts as an Assassination rogue. In raids I'm just giving because all my BiS shit comes from dungeons.
Much of what you touched on is why I will not do anything over Mythic Zero. I'm just not good enough as a player. I make lots of gold for the guild and contribute that way. I help others get the gear and expendables that they need. For me, it is about knowing oneself. I just hate it when a mythic+ raider pugs a low level toon and expects everyone else to be at that level of game-play. Arrogance is a big taboo with me.
Great video Mike, with a sensible message.
I am proud to say, during my retail years and now the classic years, I have never been benched
CLUTCHHHHHHHHHhhh prist grab !!!!!!!!!!!!!! should be talking about that WHOA! 3:05
the hunter that fell in died, so not clutch enough
@@snapbackjones1 yea but brough em up so he could be rez instead of just off the side.
Our guild had a guy likes this back during mythic HFC progression. He was a boomkin and had the trinket or set or something that auto procced his starfall and would I M M E D I A T L Y kill every single add on mythic gorefiend which would cause us to wipe. So Owlcapwn if you're out there Crescendo says hi and I saw you raiding with Kelani 👋😁
When you're talking about people not stopping DPS and other things like that I just yelled Hell Yes. Last night we were struggling on Stormwall Heroic (I know, leave us alone, it was valentines day we were down a few people) and the sides were a bit uneven so the tanks called for a slow down on the left side boat, every DPS stopped, just backed away and waited. Except for one guy. Destro Lock. The tank over there just went "That means you too X, I can see those chaos bolts" but the RL didn't say anything, of course we wiped when one boat had both people and couldn't handle it.
The same 'Lock also pulled stupid shit, repeatedly, when wipes were called. Everyone else dived off the boats, the hunters FDed, and of course since he thinks he is funny he stood there drain lifing so the hunters would get killed as well... Only the mobs put their shields up so now he we're waiting 30-40 extra seconds for him to finally freaking die... Wasting everyone's time so he can kill a pair of hunters. He did that multiple times, it was very frustrating.
Funnily enough we're about to make the choice on our final mythic comp this weekend and I know how I'll be voting... It just so happen we're a bit range heavy and while he does great DPS...
Can’t get benched when you can never even make your guild’s schedule, being Australian in an American guild kinda sucks but I do like doing Mythic plus, it’s just having the raid being 2 pm when you’re at school is sad
Should be some guilds that raid at odd times, like midnight raiding guilds. Try looking for them!
Plenty of Aussie servers and guilds. Some are top 50 guilds.
I have been the communicative raid leader, I have spent more hours trying to give people directions in what they could do better/where to learn. In the end, all the good raiders left for higher progress guild and I got stuck with those just unwilling to get better. (7deaths on first barrage fel reaver mythic? Just leave!)
When you got a piece of gear from master loot it was always an upgrade or at least useful if it was a D/E roll and had no use for many others... It never felt like you "lost" anything, since you had never been given the item... Now with personal loot it always feels like losing something, you never know if the item you rolled for is yours or not, except if it's an item level upgrade, which isn't necessarily better... It seems that there are no real studies of the playerbase from Blizzards side, they're only trying to code what is being said on the forums and taking quantitative measurements of in-game events without any qualitative analysis of anything...In my opinion they should value ethnographic research very highly, since it's such an old and established game with so many different aspects...
I was never benched when I used to raid but if I had been I would have changed guild. I wouldn't have really cared at all to be honest.
just wanted to say in a world of shocked jaina faces. your thumbnail not only made me laugh but gave me hope for the world.
I recently bench myself till content is on farm because A. Dont want to deal with raid leaders yelling for wipes, B. Dont have the time to put into the game for what will be consider harcore, C. No longer have the time to midmax my class
I clash too much with raid leaders because of my personality. I was doing rastakhan and a DH got siegebreaker roka to use his meteor leap on him and instead of stacking he ran away and immuned. I suggested " Why not just stack, its an easy mechanic, save your cooldowns" and I got kicked because "its not my place to be talking because, its not my raid"
I get benching but I also feel like it can be challenging for certain players to actually improve without playing. Especially at a mythic raid level, there’s no other content they can do that will allow them to practice and require to perform at the level they need to.
I was always about that group mentality when I was raiding (stopped raid when I became a casual player). Back in BC on chess in Khara I passed on a ring that I won the roll for, it was a minor upgrade for me but the other guy was using a green ring and was a regular member of our raids. Sure I would have been slightly better, but I wanted to move to higher stuff and for the group, it was a big DPS upgrade. When raiding to progress it is not just your gear that matters, but the entire group's gear. I wish there was an addon that shows who in your group would have a greater ilvl increase with this one piece of gear.
Before i quit wow, i played Ret/Havoc in a low tier prog raid (world 1000~)... Everytime we got a new Ret or DH, i would be benched for once so that they can show their "skill", then never be benched again due to my mentality... Some people in the higher end just need to flip a switch in their heads - either you make many mistakes and not learning from them and be benched, or you actually make the effort to learn how to not fuck up... It's pretty much true for many aspects of life i think...
Listening to all this stuff. It's obvious why I don't do well in the pug world. I started raiding in BC. Back then, not stopping DPS, or not using a CD when it was called for, because you were worried about your performance on the meters usually got you benched for the first offence. Hell my guild back then made it a rule that anyone who links damage meters during raid time gets kicked from the raid, unless they were called for by the RL or GM.
It's still this way in most progression guilds. A lot of them are private logging so there wont be any incentive to pad. Once everything is less tight farmlogs are being made public again.
Pugging is another world.
@@r.gletscher5162 it makes sense for me. During progression the only reason to keep logs is to track how mechanics are handled.
@@adamblyth9972 They're also useful for optimizing raid dps, and tracking raid damage trends to better indicate when healing CDs are necessary and highest value. Logs and meters are just a tool, they can be used or abused. Optimizing raid dps is still important for progression, despite the spergs thinking dps means *everything.*
@@barahng true. But raid dps tends to be the least important element in progression fights.
@@adamblyth9972 No, it doesn't. In BC it did sure, when DPS checks didn't really exist but the myth that you can just do mechanics and kill bosses is only really true for the absolute top guilds who just naturally do ridiculous damage. There are times when you need to be using logs to work out when best to optimise CD usage etc, and working out whether to push phases or hold off etc.
"what does your typical saturday night look like?"
usually chillin in the dark with some lava lamps goin, eating a chimichanga while I listen to preach and spent endless amounts of time farming for a fishing pole artifact in a video game.
As the guild's only raiding warlock I was benched for Mythic Hivemind progression for the entirety of the officer team, including a particularly shit shadow priest who's best log is 40. They somehow managed to kill hive mind (SP got a 1% log because he stood in the first set of purple circles) so I gquit and traded up. Goodbye shitters!
You literally explained me when you described the thought-process when the RL called stop DPS :D
RIP Wesck, the real hero of this Story (edit: havent watched the full Video yet, but I assume)
That's strange... I didn't know you could get up to 20 people in a raid other than on Tuesdays!
Benched? Pfft, I have never been benched. In my case, I AM THE BENCH!
no, you are the village mattress!
So... you have people sit on your face?
Kinky!
While I recognize that in the case of Preach's current benching, there are valid reasons that he accepts responsibility for, I still have to say this.
If I was in a raiding guild that I put weeks of time/effort/resources into getting ready for in order to do progression raiding, and they told me they wanted to bench me, I'd probably find another guild. I don't want excuses. I want a raid spot. If that guild can't accommodate me, I'll find one that can. They don't need me? I don't need them.
A raid group can't have 100% attendance. This means you need to have more people, to fill in for absentees. This means you'll sometimes have more people than the raid allows. This means you'll have to bench someone. If you're always getting benched, yeah, go ahead and leave. But if you're going to raid mythic you'll have to accept your fair share of benches.
@@Sofie424
The normal solution in my raid guilds wasn't to have a "bench" at all, but rather to have a combination of people from sister guilds, friends, and "B Team" to substitute if someone from "A Team" can't make it, but we also don't put people on A Team if they aren't reliable. Absences must be rare, or you don't get on A Team. This way, if you show up, you are guaranteed your spot. If you fail to show up too many times in too short a time span, you lose your spot.
As for B Team, these are the regular raiders who can't/won't commit to being there 95% of the time, and this group is much more flexible in terms of raid slots and substitutions. It's also where we would vet candidates who were gunning for an A slot.
Benching carries all kinds of horrible connotations which are bad for raids and bad for guilds. If you're going to tell someone they aren't going to be in the main progression group, you had better find a spot somewhere else for them to raid if you don't want them to walk.
I might have the solo player mentality here still but what about if some people put in more effort that others. My guild is 5/9 HC at the moment and we have about half the group that comes to every raid, farms m+ for gear, come prepared with pots and all, and are great players all around. The other half is only coming online for the raids, they are late constantly and have horrible attendance, they dont even do their 10s weekly, they use pots ocne a year, constantly make dumb mistakes. Should one of the guys who puts in a lot more effort give stuff that they can use, even if its is a small upgrade or even for os, to one that barely puts in any effort?
Us illidan horde? :) we have a half competent group aswell, struggling to fill the rest with people that really want to be there. 7/9 hc 1/9mythic feels terrible, because by now last season we were fully through hc and already 4/8 m.. and we thought we had attendance problems then...
Move guilds man. Always be on the lookout for a better guild.
It comes down guild to guild. I'd just have a chat with your guild master or raid leader and explain the situation to him and how you and a few others are not happy with the people that are essentially dragging down the raid. In a perfect world those people would likely be the ones that are benched by now but maybe there are reasons for it not to be the way it is. Though as you're still progressing heroic i don't think loot trading is even that important anyways, unless it is enforced by your raid leader and/or GM, which would bring us back to square one - talk to them and try to come to an agreement, if you can't you can either accept the way that it is or perhaps move on.
We are dealing with this right now too. What myself and the other officers have decided is that they will be benched. 4 have gquit so far but oh well. Not putting in the effort goes hand in hand with poor raid performance.
@@play.through the people are great and the schedule fits really well for me, i dont just wana pack up and leave.
I was benched for legit no reason in my guild after a merger. The guild had 0 druids (I main a Druid) and instead of letting me raid, they made my friend reroll the only paladin in the raid to a Druid. I left after that, I have my friends on bnet. I wasn’t told why I wasn’t raiding. I parsed a 95 on Heroic Zek in Uldir. I’m not bad, I was just benched for no reason.
Be glad you got benched and not kicked from the guild. Think about the worst raid leader of all time:
Bobby Kotick. He just kicked 800 people of his raiding guild called Raiding Peoples Bank Accounts for Shareholders.
It's OK to be benched ;)
i am an RL in a social guild most people there are older and less skillfull than others so i made an event for the weekend so that better player can progress and i just explained it during the raid and they all accepted it that some cant join untill the better ones are geared and have progressed far enough my point is communication is the key thats it
I love how the top dps on stormwall blockade is a fury warrior
Your guild sounds absolutely lovely Mike. Wish I could be up there raiding wise. But working a demanding job 65-70 hours per week, I still only have one 120, with a 33 necklace. :(
The "why" is irrelevant. The only reaction must be to "seek other opportunities". That "where is my raid spot!?" happened to my raid group twice where somebody came back and benched two good players so he and his "fudgetoy" could raid ... I wasn't benched but "disconnected" mid raid among 7 other people ... Been there.
As someone who has both had to bench people and have been on the bench.
It fucking sucks.
But that is just how it can be sometimes
I'm an officer of a casual Mythic guild, we are currently 4/9m. We recently trialed 3 people - 1 boomy, 1 ele shaman and 1 Mage (the worst class of the 3). All of them were underperforming. I talked individually to each one - "Hey, you have to perform better, or I have to fail your trial. Your neck level is low, your dps is lacking and you fuck up mechanics". All 3 of them said the usual - yes, I know yada yada. The next raid, the mage came in and kicked my ass (I'm also a useless class). He leveled 32-36 neck in 3 days, he was doing every single mechanic, volunteering for interrupt rotation and soaking and he also wrecked me on DPS. We made him a raider after the raid. The Shaman and Druid didn't show.
8:30 You are talking about 2 kind of average players. Good players are on top of the DPS and on top of the strategy/reactivity.
No, those are great players. The people who can top a DPS chart while also perfectly handling all mechanics, as well as whatever fight specific job they're given are Great and are in guilds like method. Good players generally do fall into one of the two camps preach described. Average players put out decent but unspectacular damage while also standing in the fire a few seconds too long.
If you have two identical geared players of equal skill set and one has a higher DPS by the end of the fight, it means he didn't have to deal with as many mechanics. "Topping the charts" either means you're not having to deal with mechanics as much as everyone else or, worse, you're ignoring mechanics to push out the deeps.
I remember benching myself around when I first started raiding against heroic Oregorger, simply because I couldn't handle one part.
It definitely helped me grow as a raider.
Being on the bench is the best part of raiding. It means your raid will progress without you working your ass off! And you still get the loot afterwards. Right? ;-)
Nah, sucks when it happens during progress, it's just awesome during farm when you have the luxury of being away without hurting your raid.
The Group W bench. This was a really good video.
Honestly had a big wakeup call during Cata I was great at mechanics but pretty average at dps. I was benched a fair amount during DS progression but on heavy mechanic fights my raid leader would always get me in for it. He actually explained why I wasn't in for more fights though which I really appreciated wasn't upset, didn't apply to a million other guilds or anything stupid. But yea was a big wakeup call I did a lot of research into my character and how I could improve on my dps and I ended up getting brought in for every fight in MoP progression and was more then happy to bench myself when needed for more ranged heavy fights. Sadly my guild died due to a lot of real life things happening but honestly I definitely prefer non cowardly guild leaders that actually give you feedback because if you take it positively you'll improve your gameplay to be a more desirable raider.
Awesome video Preach. Explains a lot. Thank you