Fresh Account - Dream Collapsing
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มี.ค. 2018
- Weve stepped full into the mud. Gonna take a bold move to get through this one
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Swag: shop.spreadshirt.co.uk/preach...
Twitter: @Preachgaming
Live Stream - twitch.tv/preachlfw
The Good Book - / preachgaming
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"We can all help each other, It's a team based game" Man, I fucking wish more people would think like this, I wish.
For sure!
I was on an alt in lfr and and there were tanks that had no idea what to do and a few of us were explaining the fight while others were bitching saying it's a waste of time to teach them
Our Blood DK would laugh at you on Heroic he plays hearthstone while we raid lol
This isn't about the skill of a tank, It's about people unwilling to let tanks practice in a practical setting. Your DK tank is irreverent here.
ZeroKOR1 wow your dk tank managed to be awesome with no practice
This is some really good quality content - Well done team preach for making this happen. It feels like so many WoW TH-camrs these days are just quickly throwing together videos about posts on MMO Champion.
This is completely different, you listened to the community and heard what people were saying, you carefully considered how you could investigate the issue and you thoughtfully offer your opinions as an influencer and mythic raider. I've really enjoyed this series and I hope it gets you the views / thumbs / donations you deserve, more of this please. Top job.
I completely agree, I find these videos so interesting
In dungeons there's the problem that admiting you don't know what to do and ask... People will leave. Happened to me several times that my tank asked what to do and mage made us a portal, apologized he doesn't want to explain stuff to people and left...(the tank was actually pretty good, just didn't know that Dungeon)
You can see how people are just afraid to ask questions. Even though some people would be happy to explain. You just have to get burned once.
That didn't happen in Vanilla because it took so much effort to reform the group. Good and bad sides to everything. If its very easy to join another group and start again after leaving, people will be less likely to take time to help you. Also, when you could only play with people on your server, there was more of a community where you had some level of self interest in helping people on your server and making them better players.
But if you are going to do +10 up you need to know mechanics :) you can learn those mechanics from youtube from better players from many sources dont you think that go straight to big keys and someone left because someone dont know what to do is stupid? :D it is cause people in High keys know they're classes people in HC mythic raiding know they're classes you need research learn practice simple as that
My first dungeon I selected the tank option and went in there kitted out as fury. I spent the whole raid dosing with bare hands. A whole pug thought it was fucking hilarious. Sure it was only Deadmine but Its not all as toxic as you'd think.
I once had a healer tell me “It’s okay for me to stand in the fire, I can heal myself”
... It’s not okay :(
Flame Wreath in the Year of our Lord Two-Thousand and Eighteen. Holy shit there's no hope.
FORTY THREE MINUTES OF PREACH MY BODY IS READY
And if you're body isn't, I'm prepared to take sloppy seconds
my feelings werent ;_;
"Does it matter? Do the thing that helps!" Words to fuckin live by. You're awesome Preach.
dude actually played with broken gear cause he was afraid of being kicked.. lol
Or the classic. "why was I kicked?" To low dps. "I'm the healer?"
Triksterism that happened to me! I was tanking and smashed the dps and they kicked me. My mate was also in the group (who I was carrying) who witnessed it too.
In cata i was pala healer and jc. Becuse i had so good gear and knew what i was doing i was top effective hps in dungeon finder. I was Abel to do the jc extract ore thingy between casts and still noone died. My guild called me stone braker (did it in our raids aswell). Still got kicked 9/10 Times doing it in lfr. We did not even wipe..and noone died... (exept insta kill mechanic ofc)
I've been kicked while leveling for not wearing the "correct" heirlooms, despite me being the healer and nobody coming even close to dying.
In some ways, you can't blame him. Even if you're being reasonable, people have learned that a quick and easy way to be kicked is to stand out for any reason and a great way to not be kicked is to try hard to play dumb. It's sort of like the name under which I'm posting. If I used my real name, I could say something that stands out and suddenly find a man over my bed on some random night, ready to thrust a machete. That's not how almost anybody works, but since there's always one person who does and it only takes one to ruin your life, it's just best to not use your real name on the Internet.
You’re a good man.
That is the biggest reason why PUGs don't work; It's so easy to find another group if the first falls apart. Most people seem to not care, with a "oh well, maybe the next group will be better" mentality. No introspection, no reflection just plain stupidity thinking it must be someone else. I love how far matchmaking has come and how easy it is to find groups in most games, with that comes the trash players as well, I don't say that just in regards to skill level but also personality.
Well done Preach, suffer well.
I said on the forum that LFR should hit people with stuns and loss of control for getting tacs wrong so people learn, damage is ignorable particularly with strong healers. People on the forum disagreed with me.
That's actually brilliant. Have all the one shot mechanics be in normal and above, then put 30sec disorients and 1min stuns on those abilities in LFR. A bad player will not learn anything lying on the floor dead, they'll just be confused. If they're constantly confused, they'll fall in to apathy thinking they can't do anything about it.
the forums are filled with alt-posting morons that think doing mythic 0 means they play the game
Thats because its a stupid idea. RF is for learning... if it takes people 100 tries they are still learning. Not everyone gets everything first time or even first 10. Its not that they dont realise they messed up its that maybe they arent good enough. Not every should be able to raid RF needs to be removed entirely. Raiding is an earned privilege not a right.
@@scrummpybear your comment doesn't even make sense. The whole point of wow was to be more inclusive from the start, hence why it was easier to get into than the MMOs that preceded it, that's why it got so big.
@@kevjp5987 nope, the reason wow was successful was because almost every mmo up until then punished you for death, youd lose items or xp or whatever. That doesnt makr it easoer to access it made it easier to play. Back that up with only about 2% of players ever saw classic naxx and what about thay givrs you the impression everyone should raid? Raiding wasnt EVER made to be inclusive, until RF was added, in what is reffered to as "the dumbing down of the game" with specs and qol changes in cata.
this was one of the best gameplay series I've ever seen, so educating.. And you Preach always say things in the way it is simple to understand what you are trying to say. when time comes, hope you do more series like this one.
It's really eye opening to see that these kind of players exist! I pug sometimes when my guild aren't around but this is something else! Don't know how you kept your head mike lol.
Sleakozzy This world is more reality of WOW than guild life. I have one toon I purposely keep unguilded as a play to myself time since LK. Lock as well who can’t even get in to normal anything even though with my other toons I am in a mythic farm guild as a MT.
It's so easy to avoid if you just find the right guild. Operative word is "right". Started this game in BC, had a blast for about a year and quit. Came back at the launch of MoP and been playing regularly ever since ... ranging from super casual to mythic progression. I'll just say I can count on one hand how many awkward experiences I've had with immature kids.
I think I have pugged a keystone maybe 4 times in all of wrath. I just don't want to put myself through that, so I do my weekly 15 or 16 on my MW main, tank a 10-13 on my DK, and do various lower keys on alts as guildies need spots filled. I maybe do 2-4 m+ a week max, and if the guild doesn't do any in a given week, then neither do I. At least with guildies, when you screw up you can joke about it, or pick on them in fun over it, which makes things so much less stressful even when you know that for the most part m+ is a time waste.
kmd subs hwas raider in bc- end of wotlk. Stopped playing because of 24/7 raidguid and no time for family. Now that i play again i dont want to fall back to this habbit. So no more guild. I punish myself for that beeing with pugs...
Sleakozzy Heh... These kind of players happens to me EVERY GOD DAMN SINGLE WEEK... FOR MONTHS! And I can't get into the good groups where I belong despite my ilvl being 965 just because my m+ score is low due to I can't be arsed doing every single m+ dungeon on +20 for score, they are not that fun, and why bother to be honest? It's just a number that has no value. The gear is the same, its just boosting your e-peen further.. Stupid "gearscore" system a nolife elitist invented in patch 7.2.5.
hahaha chat at 2:41
Xinhu: You very good player?
Preach: Id like to think so
Xinhu: That's the spirit!
Me: Oh you have no idea, haha
The best part is the monk was dead on every single boss.
Put your logs where your mouth is boy.
Magicmano: Dind't even notice that, haha!
Zero mint: I think you might be replying to the wrong thread.
You mean because Preach is actually a bang average player? Made me laugh seeing that guy lick his ring too lol
how many rank 1's and full mythic clears do i need before im above average bro? gimme a goal to aim for at least
This is still relevant. I got my Keystone master in Shadowlands and then went down to 12s to get easy Valor and it is soooo much worse there. Never failed so many keys as i have now. Good thing we still get 2 loots...
man the amount of times i swear preach was about to say
itemlevel cant save you from stupidity but then didn't trying to not call people idiots,
i respect this
lol he thinks hes going to get a heroic Antoris done. You need to do heroic Antoris before you can enter heroic Antoris.
No kidding! One of the biggest problems with getting groups is that if you need gear, you cant go. Only the people who already have the gear can go.
I'm actually really looking forward to his thoughts on this issue, because it is a real Thing: without AOTC, you can't get in to AOTC groups - but non-AOTC groups will always, ALWAYS fall apart and fail to complete the dungeon, so you've got to join an AOTC group. Nasty catch-22 that I really don't know the answer to, so I just enjoy being in a guild.
I got denied from a normal mode pug today with 965 gear level because I am only 9/11 heroic antorus so couldn't link AOTC. The leader had no even killed normal mode Argus.
you know blizzard implemented a way for this not to happen. It allows you to not be constantly judged on your ilv alone and avoid the crazy toxicity of pugs. It's called a guild
most of us saw this coming, so when Antorus HC was out and 940 was the base ilvl, i brought all my alts in BEFORE the 960 cap happens :P .. now any of my alt under 940 will never see the light of HC, yet the others get instant invites without even needing to link curve.
Honestly, this is the game I've been playing and why I had to take a break from it for the past couple months. It was incredibly eye opening to hear you say the bit about the time spent was equivalent to MORE than a mythic raiding schedule. Made me realize just how important it is to find a guild/some friends if I want to continue playing and actually progress.
It's great you're putting yourself through this to show both why people complain and what people can and should do to get out of this.
Another cracking video. As soon as you said the Paladin needed his gear repairing I literally 'facepalmed' and hung my head. Can't wait for the next one Preach!
Russian paladin tank in mid M+ - trust me they wont listen to you even if you tell them something in Russian. Almost never.
Stalok same thing goes for Brazilian players on the NA side. Our guild and small group of people know better than to invite for those servers. Unfortunately, they have a pretty bad attitude in general. Sad cuz back in BC we had a few BR players that were fine, though I think having their own servers now let that mindset stew and create a worse overall group.
This was in my recommendations and I instantly clicked, thinking it was a BfA one...
@Brian Most likely, I just enjoyed these videos the last time around and wouldn't mind getting an "update", particularly if he was to try playing alliance, since I've experienced some distinct differences between the two factions on the EU side of things... Luckily there is no lack of content around this time :)
I mean this really isn't an expansion specific issue. I found this video in Shadowlands and the problem is still very real and apparent once you hit +10.
oh.... you can feel the sorrow and pain inn this, but I enjoy the perspective and thoughts on the brackets you encounter. Keep it up!
This is some of the best content ive seen on this channel since I subscribed in MoP, and preach still puts this out for us guys even in the face of the youtube adpocolypse .. I love you man!
The two biggest issues I see with the "PuG life" today is negative reinforcement on Blizzards end, and neglect on the players end.
What Blizzard has been trying to do with things like Mythic Keystones and LFR is make the gradual increase in difficulty you're talking about now. It should work, because it makes sense. If getting to the top is a series of stairs, as opposed to a series of wall climbs, people should be able to learn and develop the skills for higher content. Unfortunately this is *not* the case for a large portion of the community. Instead, as you described, we have this problem of people on the lower levels expecting and recieving carries, blasting through content meant to prepare them for the content ahead, so when they get to that wall, they are completely oblivious. This is especially true for things like LFR and Normal Raiding. LFR doesn't teach you anything. In fact, *it only reinforces this habit of lazy play.* People go into LFR and get this idea that, if they wipe enough times, eventually the boss will go down and they don't even need to change anything about their own play. In fact, a few days ago I read this line, exactly, in an LFR run. "They should make a LFR rank 2." I laughed because it was so insane.
The bottom line is, people are being rewarded for playing lazily. This gets reinforced enough times for a long enough period, people have a hard time realizing "Oh shit, I'm doing this wrong. I gotta try something else." and that is the major flaw in Blizzards game design.
For a vast part of the community, we are not making this any better. People are selfish, and although they have every right to be, but it only makes the problem worse. We neglect appropriately item level players because, you're right, it's risky. It's so much safer to take in the carries. And, if someone appropriately geared manages to get into a Keystone or a Normal Raid, well they got *another* hurdle waiting for them. When we get inexperienced players, we often kick them from our groups if they don't know mechanics. How will they learn mechanics if they're always getting booted for not knowing? Guides can only take them so far, experience is the best teacher. Unfortunately people are rarely given the opportunity learn.
Personal story;
I have raided with Guilds before. Blackrock Foundry and HFC I was with a Mythic Raiding guild from Uldum. I did the PuG life for Emerald Nightmare and Trial of Valor. Got a guild to take me in for Nighthold and Tomb of Sargeras from Quel'thalas. Now I'm in the PuG life once again for Antorus, clearing heroic weekly leading my own groups. My Palladin is an average 965 ilevel across all 3 specs. My DH falling behind at 955 Vengeance, and currently working on a Survival Hunter at 916.
The reason I can't raid with guilds, although I'd very much like too, is simply because of schedule restraints. I'm at a time in my life where I cannot always guarantee the hours set aside, and that is frustrating for many guilds, so I'm guildless for the time being. The PuG life is very, very frustrating at times, but for many of us it's the only option. The only way we can improve it is if, instead of neglecting the players willing to learn, we teach them. It is a hastle, but believe me it is worth it. There are those players who refuse to take advice and advance, and those cannot be helped. But there are those who want to make it work. Over the course of Antorus, I have taught approximately 8 different tanks every mechanic for Heroic, and now they can hold their own in PuGs, and are most likely inticing to guilds looking for a tank. I have taught twice as many healers and DPS as well, not on how to play their specs, I don't know enough to say so, but on where they fall short mechanically speaking.
*The absolute wors thing you can do in a PuG is berrate and kick a player without offering them a solution to their problem. If you do, then the next raid they join will have the unpleasant experience of a tank trying to stack Heroic Coven.*
I understand the persoal story. BUT for each player willing to learn there is 5 times as many people NOT wanting to learn. They think they are the best and don't need teaching and a helping hand in trying to do better since they already know how to play the game. WoW has and is still becoming more toxic since people feel entilted to things all the time without learn the ropes and the way to get better.
LFR is just a mess period. You can get kicked for literally carrying people to a boss down, and somebody with 300k dps on a frost mage who's most damaging ability was blizzard for a single target Kin'garoth fight just needs to convince people to kick you.
This has been my experience since starting in Legion. After finding a guild and doing lots of reading and video watching I know the fights now. But because of similar time constraints I can't do guild raiding. I spend a lot of my time running keys below 10 and teaching people the mechanics when they mess up. As much as it's Blizzard's problem it's a community problem as well.
What really gets me is that a lot of the folks that have this toxic behavior are the same as the people who want the game to be like it used to be. I played the first week of WoW launch and the community of everyone learning and teaching each other was a huge part of that experience. If people want that type of game back, then the community needs to act like it.
Another roadblock issue that causes these "metric for being good" to fall apart, is that you can attain everything the group is looking for...with gold. Every day there is Guilds selling Heroic carried, M+15 carries, you get the loot, you get the .io score, you get the iLvL...and have learned jack shit through the entire experience. You eventually hit that 960+ range, think you're good...and wipe the group on a trash pull.
I agree that more experienced players should be more open to giving weaker players a chance than they currently tend to be. However, if someone clearly shows that he is just hitting random abilities and hasn't even spent the time to look up any kind of rotation or spell priority then they arn't ready to learn the mechanics of a specific fight. Getting a very basic idea of your spell priority takes 5 minutes, with another 10 minutes to practise it on a dummy. You will still make mistakes, but be 80% of the way to doing the dps you should do at your iLevel. I was able to do this 8 years ago when I was 15. Today's class discords have only made it easier.
If a iLevel 950 dps does 400k dps on a dummy it will barely matter that (s)he doesn't know to LoS the boss to avoid a chunk of damage.
i think joining a cesspool guild would be beneficial to the project
Y tho?
Because that's what happens to just about every new player xD
exactly
Cesspool guilds mostly died in WoD.
Cesspool guilds are still very much there. Can barely go 2 minutes without spam guild invites whenever I make a new character.
Really interesting series on vids, helping me understand what I need to do to become a better player. Thanks.
This is one of the best wow videos that i have ever seen, good job guys, keep it up!
Listening to horror stories from the past while dragging my rogue through classic tbc.
Do an episode where you try to find a good guild using only the rep your new account has gathered. No using friends, no using your old guild, no using your past accomplisments...
Yes! This is what I want to see!
It's easy to say "just join a guild" but it's impossible to find a good guild. The game has become a downward spiral because there are no rewards for people helping other players and working together. There's no way to browse for a good guild in game. There should be more of a rating system in game for players and guilds.
What I did was spend a few months in a shit guild to learn the raids on a normal and heroic level, then I slowly went up as I got more progressed, from a 1/10M NH guild to a 3/10M to a 4/10M to a 6/10M and eventually to a top 100 US guild, I essentially used shittier guilds as stepping stones, and you might say that's pretty toxic but I've left many good friends behind in those guilds, because they were just not willing to give up a small friendship for a leap in progression. I started really PLAYING this game in Nighthold, and we're now at AtBt and I'm probably one of the most polished players in this guild that I thought of as a dream less than a year ago.
Obviously I've been really lucky in the networking aspect. I wouldn't even be in my current guild if it wasn't for some ties to the GM of it through a few friends from my previous guild that fell apart in Tomb.
It's definitely impossible to join a good guild off the start, so pay your dues and take the time that we've all taken at some point.
has Preach done a video detailing an "outline" of sorts for finding guilds?
I know he has Drama Time about GUILDS, but that is more a pretext of "see? this is what you DON'T want your 'potential' guild to do" rather than a "look for this, that, and other things to find a good guild".
We've had a video on how to find guilds and preach being able to give 85 plus percentile logs he should find a good guild
oh ok. that is good to know. you happen to remember the title by chance?
Thank you, Preach, for putting in the time and effort to test these things out - we appreciate you! ...Although the PTSD shellshocked look in your eyes is heartbreaking.
Bless your soul Preach, taking one for the team with this challenge.
11:10 sums up why many healers/tanks don't like mythic +. Dps is too lazy to even cookie themselves, yet healers and tanks are expected to max dps at ever second on top of doing their normal jobs. The last few years of easy content for dps has created this odd group of people that act like elitists even though they are garbage at the game. If they die it is lag, rng or somebody else's fault.
Not saying you're wrong, but I have had legit latency issues most of Legion.
Hey, I was *hits numlock and autoruns into wall* lagging really bad there, you baddie lrn2play even without me you noobs should have been able to kill that. If it were reversed I woulda been able to down it without one of you scrubs.
I quit healing a while back, at least in any pugs over 10. OMG healer, no heals wtf?! You were standing in instadeath, I cannot heal through that. I can on my main, you are just a baddie.
People are so stupid.
im starting to think im playing an entirely different game. Very rarely have i experienced anyone do anything but try to max their dps to beat the others on the dps meter. im the same and its fun to compete. i havent been raiding in legion and mostly just pugging. i cant say ive had the same experiences as preach in this video. maybe ive just been lucky.
Trying to heal through grievous this week has shown me that this group of no-skill elitists is a very, very real problem. Even classes with built-in self-heals just won't touch them until they're literally about to die (and even then, they sometimes won't). They stand in shit, they don't interrupt, stun, or use their utility at all. They just expect me to brute force heal through everything. Which, sure, I can do on lower keys, but why not just pop Turtle every once in a while (even between pulls just to clear grievous) for Christ's sake.
It's not like you lose anything for it. And even when it is a slight DPS loss, lower DPS is better than dead.
Heyaitsjohn there are also those kinds that pop turtle or bubble at the slightest breeze and don't have it up when they need it, but obviously this is much more rare.
As a Healer you see some stupid shit that is for sure.
hyrja on 13 tyrannical with those types of groups oh boi
By the time Preach gets to Hyrja, the key will be so low that she won't do any damage at all.
I love this series, found it very late.
You started with so much optimism and it's all tumbles down here.
I'm really enjoying this series Preach. I can't wait to see where your next adventure takes you. It sucks that you hit a wall here, but the way you analyze what you have learned and present it to everyone is excellent. It becomes so much more apparent that there are flaws in the way wow brings in new players, and if no one points then out it will never get better. I also feels like your making a more comprehensive guide to those who are just getting started. I give you an A for effort.
the issue of the 9 to 10 difficulty jump is why in BfA they are changing they tyrannical/fortified to the +2 keystone affix
Reminds me of an experience with my friends from a few weeks ago -
Got a Seat Key for a +12 and my Mythic + friends wanted to do it. The DPS warrior (who's not the best player to begin with) was like "Oh Seat is so easy we got this"
Well the key dipped to a 8 or 9 before we finished it.
Problem was everyone had only ever done Seat on Heroic, where you can ignore mechanics because we're all ilevel 940+ and just DPS the dungeon down.
No one knew the actual mechanics of the fights and no one wanted to learn.
Watching this has brought me back to the game! Love your work Preach
At the start i wasnt that hyped about this project but since its launched im really amazed! Really interesting to watch, keep it up and keep your sanity preach ;)
"Link curve"
Roughly translated to this English this means
"CARRY ME REEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
That guy who didn't repair his armor is a really sad but typical example of what happens as a result of toxicity towards (perceived) bad play. Every time you make a mistake in this game, or somebody thinks you did, you're berrated for it, often kicked out of the group. This is why people don't speak up. Your best bet for getting through content you're not that familiar with is to shut the fuck up and hope nobody notices you. Everybody expects you to know the content already. If you ask a question, if you tell people you're having a problem, if you do *anything* to show unfamiliarity with the content or a lack of game knowledge or whatever, you're instantly risking getting kicked or flamed.
This is also why people get so defensive when you give them legit suggestions-it's read as accusatory, because people are so itchy to shit on other people. It's why you get useless advice after a wipe like "we need to not stand in [thing]" when nobody stood in the thing and the wipe happened for other reasons. Anything you can do to make it seem like you know the content. And yeah, it's a cycle, because it's also makes people more ready to snap at other players, even if they did nothing wrong. Because if you wipe, and you don't actually know what the fuck happened, maybe it's your fault. And everybody is going to want to deflect blame as quickly as they can, so that *they're* not the one under fire.
In an earlier video, you said that you thought that toxicity mostly only popped up in response to bad play. I think that's true. I almost never get people flinging shit on a good run. But just because it happens in response to bad play, does not mean it isn't toxicity. The hostility with which many players respond to bad play with still has a deleterious effect on the community and the experience of playing the game. It's not just about having somebody call you a fuckass occasionally, it's about the culture of fear it creates, where you're constantly on edge, stressed at the prospect of even the smallest mistake, afraid to communicate or ask for advice, and completely unfazed by the fact that somebody would go multiple wipes with broken equipment out of fear of anger or reprisal from their teammates.
P.S. this video is basically a 45 minute ad for raider.io.
This is true iv been playing the game since the beginning and this was never an issue back then, if you were unsure of something you could ask and someone would help now if you ask a question in trade chat or general chat you get made fun of for asking something as if you should already know, new players wont know the stuff that someone who has been playing since the start people should share there knowledge instead of being dicks
But you are supposed to know a fight before entering it. They’re are multiple guides on multiple platforms, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be studying fights before entering a raid. At that point you’re just being lazy and a liability. Let’s not forget, bad players are toxic for the whole team.
Having watched this series I want to give you a hug
really appreciate your content preach. thx for all the informative and entertaining videos!
See, this is what makes all the talk about being the better player fall a little flat, even though it's true - it doesn't matter how competent YOU are if the rest of the group isn't at least attempting to play the game as though they care. It's not just LFR. It's just more obvious there because more people play it and can see how these piss-easy fights become slogs because a tank doesn't go up the portal during Hasabel, or a healer goes DPS spec the entire instance, or DPS keep dying to basic mechanics, etc.
You can check a player's item levels or achievements or legendaries before you invite someone, but you can't check whether or not they give a shit 'til you're already in deep. You can't make them try, and you can't make them care. It's immensely frustrating seeing one or two people manage to drag down an entire group (or four or five an entire raid) and being powerless to do anything about it. It's why I don't raid, and I imagine it's why a lot of new players who DO care are afraid to step in.
Best of luck to you, Preach. It's all I got for ya. ^_^
The reason I now choose to play mostly solo is because in Legion alone I've been through 8 guilds, all of which disbanded. I just can't be arsed doing it a 9th time.
When looking for a guild, firstly try the oldest guilds on the server. If they've been around for years they probably aren't going anywhere. Don't join a guild that doesn't have some kind of application process or requirements for membership - even if the requirement is only due diligence; bringing your own pots or flasks and showing up on time for calendar events etc. Guilds without structure, much like countries, are doomed to fail.
These were all guild with an application process. I always bring my own stuff, but they all die a few bosses into mythic.
That is pretty common with guilds that have the mind-set of 'heroic raiders', they get through the heroic difficulty of the raid, everything is fine and people are enjoying themselves. Then they make their first mistake, they venture into mythic. Mythic can be a horrible experience for a lot of people, the progress comes a lot slower, the learning curve is a ton steeper for every boss, and there is no flex. Trying to raid mythic kills off guilds that aren't prepared for mythic raiding.
Hell, even Aggramar Mythic has killed off a ton of guilds this raid tier. My guild took 8 wipes to down Coven. Most bosses before that, 30-70 wipes. Aggramar Mythic? Over 200 wipes. The mythic raids really are tuned for a specific type of people, and the rest won't get any enjoyment out of it.
Really great video preach.
It was thought provoking and the way you explained it made a lot of sense. It didn't sound like you were dumping on anyone or anything, just getting at the root of the problems. Where people a lot of times expect the gear to do the work for them, but until they actually take the time to learn more aspects of their characters or encounter mechanics, they as a player can't truly improve, so the game won't improve for them either.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for your words Mike. Love what you said, "Do the thing that helps!" Such a great attitude!
LINK CURVE
Checking profile for multiclear
How else can you, atleast be a little bit sure that the guy you inviting isn't just going to waste your time.
[Ahead of the Curve: Xavius]
Most people who's only word to me is their Ahead of the Curve typically don't understand how Argus works and will just not run with bombs or they won't stack for phase 1, having Curve means absolutely nothing about your ability to understand the game, you could have just gotten curve while face down on the floor dead for all I know.
achievements are a terrible indicator of any kind of performance metric.
And thats why Raider.Io score is a thing... Item level is trash indicator and unfortunately its pushed everywhere. Keystone master is irrelevant cuz it costs 80k gold at this point...
Great vid, great advice, and great insights. Thanks Preach.
have to say loving this series preacher! more like this please
Blizz needs to make guilds more central to the experience.
Idea for a video series Preach maybe go through each of the mythics and show people how to run them correctly has someone who is trying to get into high mythics and doesnt want to make an ass of myself them sort of videos would be awesome
As someone who does high mythic plus... videos only get you so far. You just need experience. Videos only really help with specific skip strats if you don't already know them, and even then they take practice, you're not going to get it right the first time. There are videos out there that have things like this already as well, Preach's forte is not M+ so probably not best to take advice from him.
Thanks for the reply, who would u recommend to watch for these skip strats and general instance knowledge, has i took a long break from legion and having to relearn the instance is becoming a ballache
Zach Oneal I guess what people want is "where do I stand during this randomly high skilled boss encounter when the previous one was a DPS check"
Yeah that is just what im after, as well whats the best way to tank this mob pack, can u line of sight that spell. these sorts of tips would be awesome
MrScottreed I mean even on some bosses like portal keeper my first time in there someone was saying "groups 2 and 4 go into each portal red green and purple that order at each phase. Stay out of green and tank drag the boss out of purple". That's a very easy simplification for someone that's never done it before. If the information was doled out like that a lot more would want to learn it instead of reading the guide and having no idea what something is because it's referred to by a ridiculous name rather than "bad under you" or "soak the green on garothi"
lmao. I love hearing these pub horror stories. You should make a video series every week explaining that one mythic run everyone has every week. You know what im talking about, Lol.
Thank you preach for a great video. I understand it must be very very hard to go through this, but keep it up.
I like this videos of different reasons. It makes me understand the game more, the people in our community. For a couple of years I was worried that my computer wouldn't be able to handle a raid. It had problems with dungeons. When I got a new computer, I talked to my old GM that I wanted to test raiding. We left on good terms, and I still have many alts in that old guild.
I joined a casual heroic raiding guild the first week of ToS. The first day I got asked if I wanted to join a m+11 maw of souls. My highest ever was +8. It was tyrannical. 2hours 30min later we had killed the last boss. But I didn't stop. I wanted to be better. I started reading, different addons, muscle memory. People in the new guild once asked me if I even had any alts because of all the raids I joined on my main rogue. I wanted to test different abilities, so I got that in musclememory.
If x happens I'm already pressing the correct keybind.
Today, I've 2.6k raider.io score, got 95% performance on garothi hc and I'm more pissed of people saying : "melee only dies in m+, you can't join" even if I have higher score than them.
It's been a journey and I hope to continue.
I've been watching the whole series up until now and have quite enjoyed it. Props for dispelling a lot of the myths and excuses about breaking into end-game, however I can sympathize with some of the criticisms offered. ie: Playing Warlock which is an incredibly highly sought-after class that RLs are more apt to invite regardless of ilvl, because they need one in the group. A class that doesn't bring much if any utility to the group, especially melee, would have a harder time getting invites.
My only criticism is that it's a bit disingenuous to compare your experience to that of a totally new player in that you're playing the class at a much higher skill level than most would, and are using add-ons which offer massive, massive, massive quality of life improvements that straight up make you a better player. I think that, especially as an Aff lock, you'd have a more genuine nub experience if you didn't roll with any add-ons at all and just played stock UI as I'm sure the vast majority of newer players do.
That said I agree with your sentiments and that doing all the small things (portals, cds on trash, being friendly and engaging, etc) is the #1 way to slowly claw your way up the ladder until you reach the point where you've either found a guild or friends to play with regularly, or your ilvl is high enough that you won't be scrutinized when joining groups.
Personally I've just returned from a break and am struggling to get my foot back in the door. I have cutting edge achievement for almost every tier since WOD (and aotc for others) and was farming mythic 15-18's long before raider.io was ever a thing. But since this was before the add-on existed, none of those clears are recorded, and linking multiple CE's and the +15 achievement etc still isn't enough to get into even a 10 or 11 because when they mouse over me they see I have zero raider.io data. Of course this won't dissuade me from playing and just means I need to start low and work my way back up as you've been doing, but it's definitely been a frustrating experience.
Looking forward to watching the rest of the series, cheers.
"didn't get a single upgrade" 11:01 literal 20% and 15+ ilvls.......hmmmm
Really enjoying this little mini-series, despite your slow decent into insanity it's fun to watch and quiet educational. when you complete it i'd love to see the journey for a different perspective (tank/healer) and see how you get along with that...if you're willing ofc.
Love this series man, very well done!
I Was watching hentai BUT preach's video is more important than everything
atm I have 2 tabs open. Hentai is muted tho.
Isn't Preach a hentai?
is there a difference between preach and hentai?
listen, I shouldn't need to move for kin'garoth's ruiner as a dps because it is a basic healer mechanic :P (some people are that stupid)
A few Times other dps told me to stop doing The tactics proper becuse The healer shoud be able to deal with it.
Your positivity in these situations is honestly something I strive for. The pug world is harsh and grimey but there are also nice people suffering as well in there. Here is to breaking the cycle of salt and ignorance of mechanics!
I really enjoy watching this series. Keep it up man!
33:32 BIg papa preach says if your playing this game in a world of guildless mythic keystone grinding stop
This is why I can't play MMOs anymore. Too many things taking up my leisure time to bother with a guild. And the difference between playing with people you know and random people is staggering. It's not even the same game.
Loving this series.
You dropped a lot of wisdom in this video, great one. What you say is true, mostly it comes down to people failing to communicate well (not communicating at all/flaming/feeling insulted when you try to tell them what to do). The Voicechat-Feature they are going to implement in BfA might help a lot with this, from my experience people are friendlier when they are actually talking (probably because it's more personal) than when they are just smashing the keyboard. Of course people will still flame but it still might be helpful to the issue you described.
Keep up the good work mate
WoW used to have voicechat as part of the game itself, but they removed it for some reason. I
Think Blizz agrees with you that there's an issue with the jump from 9 to 10 keys, which is reflected in the Q&A this week where they said Tyran/Fort will start at +2 in BfA.
This^ while I haven't really touched the m+ system there is clearly a problem with the sudden jump in difficulty when you go from a 9 to a 10 and it's great to see that change happening with BfA. It's a small step towards fixing the system but it wouldn't surprise me if the communities will help a lot too
This is, indeed, a good news. I think people can deal with certain affixes but thrown in either one of those and they can't do it.
Sure, some combinations seem more favorable but that doesn't change the fact there are people who can't deal with certain mechanics because they've never seen it... "cough" Servitor on Harbaron "cough"
I think they solve this problem by not giving people free gear. I mean if people did not over gear all the content they do before +10, they would have the opportunity to learn the tactics properly.
Honestly I think it just proves we need to go back to a pseudo attunement thing. You cannot join mythic+10 if you haven't done mythic+9 and hit certain benchmarks.
Neither of those stop the problem of just flat out buying progression (or gear) in game. The OP comment would just reinforce "If you wanna get better faster, you better have money (gold)" and the second still doesn't eliminate carries learning nothing. I don't know what the solution is, but it needs to be more personalized to the player, so it can't be cheesed by being a care bear.
I don't think you can do anything about a player paying for another player(s) to rush them through content? Short of some kind of flag "This person isn't DPSing at the SimCast rates they should be, flag them as a jerk and make sure they can't get a group till they improve at a lower level."
Love the video and agree with a lot of what you had to say. Something that you might find positive is that they had discussed adding Tyrannical or Fortified as the first affix you get on each key during the last live Q&A. That way it's more of a gradual build up instead of the wall of learning at 10+.
Wonderful video, and a real service to the community. Respect.
My 960 Mage cant make it into most HC pugs, even though I've not only got curve, but also 8/11 Mythic. My main at 976 bag item level doesn't even need to link anything. However, I can also tank the whole of Antorus at 950 on another alt. The item level number really needs to go, it means nothing more than how much health you have. And of course, some classes seem to be preferable...
This video was very interesting to listen to, it sheds some light on problems in the game, and how to deal with them.
Edit; Your dungeon fails is why people ask for Keystone Master and crazy item levels. Being 955 isnt overgearing a 15 (As an Average player I mean, it would be overgearing for you or other people in your mindset), even though they drop 940. Gotta factor in Legos, Titanforges and your Weapon, thats how Theyve balanced it. Its ridiculous, but its real.
Blizz didn't create Ilvl, that's player made in Wrath, or as it was referred to as; Gearscore. Blizz just made it a baseline thing to more easily track without an addon but players were using and it and were just as unreasonable about it back then as they are now asking for players geared in content 2 or 3 tiers above what buddy is trying to recruit for.
Does it matter now? The game is very diffrent, and the loot system is very diffrent. If blizzard adopted item level from an addon, they should also be looking to update it, and make it more useful right?
In stead, the failure of the item level system happened when Titanforging was introduced, because there is now a variable of 30+ item levels, depending on the content you do. If we had stuck to low warforges, you could tell what kind of content someone could do with a character by their item level. A 970 character might have just done mythic 10-14 for MONTHS, getting good titanforges in the weekly chest. The only other way to get that kinda gear is through Mythic ABT, wich then, you can only verify by asking for achievments, and the cycle begins....
Players that want to do HC pugs save up the gold to buy Curve, link it for the content, and either get carried, wipe, or get kicked. Then they get angry and toxic, and certainly not better at the game. And here we are with the average group finder dungeon group.
Being in a guild solves so much. Talking to people, joking around, explaining. Ive been in my guild since The Nighthold, but we could barely clear it on HC. We decided to get good, together, after getting our arses kicked by KJ HC, and now were 8/11m in ABT. Can a guildless person do that? "Get good", I mean.
Sorry if my writing is a bit messy, it all sounded good in my native tounge, dont know about english :S
The only way they could feasibly make an outlet for a player to put on their account how good they are is if Blizz puts them in a room with a training dummy for a minute and calculates their DPS, then lets that show next to their ilvl.
Now will that automatically remove all the bad players from the game? No, some players might do great DPS but are shit awful at mechanics, players that can barely handle an add still might do good DPS but there isn't really a way for Blizz to filter out those players from the norm. This would at least let a group leader see ilvl and afk DPS to see if someone can understand their basic rotation which is realistically the only achievable way to measure skill, at the very least this will help you avoid a 300k dps 950 ilvl scrub
If item level isn't there, something else will have to replace it.
Evan W Blizzard DID create it. Item level already existed in vanilla, people just didn't care about it. Cause though it roughly reflected the amount of stats an item had, the stat distribution was sometimes all over the place and didn't factor in some really important things like weapon speed.
"why not just play something else" Exactly my thought 1 week ago... so I ended my subscription :D
Also, your last video inspired me quite a bit. So thanks to you i have been helping random low geared people through their keys and helping them boost their key some. So thank you for that, it's actually been rather enjoyable :)
Wow, a 40 minute video I actually watched through without skipping. Keep up the good work man +1 sub and hit the bell!
Finding a guild? you say that like if it was easy. Please try to find a guild with your new account. Obviously, do not say that you are Preach, do not use your log from your mage etc... I would LOVE to see how "easy" it is to get in a GOOD mythic raiding guild.
Yes it's easy to enter a heroic guild doing heroic, killing the first 2-3 boss then wiping all night long
Yes it's easy to join the mythic guild that is building up, and never reach the 20 players attendance require for raid night
But joining a mythic raiding guild who manage to have there core player on time every raiding night, and who are actually able to progress, yes when you meet a new boss you wipe, 10-20 time learn the fight and kill it (as you get to the harder boss wipe 50-70 time, and the final boss 100-200 time maybe) but there should be progression.
I consider myself skilled player, maybe not Method good (since I'm not sponsored and I cannot play 8 hours per day) but when I watch your video on how to play I agree with most of what you say and I already do it.
I am curerntly a solo player since my RL friend, for them, heroic raid is the highest they'll ever do (and higher they are interested in) because they don't even care about getting better, they just play for the world and that is fine for them but I want to do mythic raiding, I want to be challenged. They are not interested in getting UI and stuff...
So when I go and try to join a good guild, they ask my achievement... I have none since I never had the chance to go and do mythics raiding when the content is still relevant.
They ask me my item score, I'm pretty unlucky, even my weekly chest that I try very hard to have my mythic+15 every week, I got a chest piece 10 weeks in a row and I were my tiers set chest piece so I cannot use that chest piece. The only titanforge I get are pieces of gear I cannot wear (in my legendary or tier piece slots)
Then they want a screenshot of my UI, ok that one is easy, I have a clean UI using proper add-on
They ask me my computer specs, that once again I'm good with this, I have a great powerful computer way better then what WoW require.
Then they want my logs, I'm not in a guild so no one ever did a log, yes I could do the log myself, but I log what? how I destroy the pug DPS in heroic raid... as a tank? How I am the first to die even with cooldown active because the healer forgot he was suppose to heal me... the tank?
Please Preach I would be very curious to see how your 935 warlocks with no achievement and no raiding experience can enter a GOOD mythic raiding guild
I quit the game soon after ToS came out because I was bored of the pug world and the impossibility to enter a GOOD mythic raiding guild. Maybe if you can teach me some trick on how to join a good mythic guild without having a TH-cam channel it could revive my flame of WoW and bring me back in time for BFA.
Don't neglect the logs! Look at it from the guild's perspective - it takes a lot of effort to onboard a new player into a set roster. They need to know they aren't wasting their time.
Logs can tell a lot. When we analyze new recruits, we take a deep dive into their logs...we don't just look at the DPS bars on the first view and nod our heads knowingly. For a tank, we can look at things like your active mitigation uptime, when you use your cooldowns, how many stacks you and the other tank took of abilities, how much damage you took from abilities, how many globals you had free, how many procs you wasted, etc...
You're clearly already of the mindset that's it's impossible, and will probably come up with an excuse for anything people suggest
all i can say Preach is welcome to the real WoW. you have been sheltered for too long. this is WoW for 75% of people. Yes guilds do help but even then most heroic raiding guilds cant handle keys over 15
I've tried desperately to complete a +15 on time this week, but I've given up. I like playing as a healer and I think I'm reasonably skilled, but the doubt is always there. Did the run fail because I failed as a healer, or did they kill themselves?
That's extremely easy to find out by just looking at Details/Skada to be fair.
The pug life is something you choose for yourself man. Every server has good guilds on it, find them; get in them and go. If your guildies don't know, teach them. If you don't know, let them teach you. It's a team game, find friends and play with them - it's literally the only way to enjoy this game and not be constantly frustrated.
I forgot all the best guilds are constantly on the lookout for low geared people that DON'T know the encounters..... oh wait!
If you have the doubt, then it's your fault too. You should know what to do in a dungeon if you want to progress further. Like people dying at Nelt Lair with the avalanche mobs in fortified weeks for no moving, tanks not managing properly pelters (running away with the aggro, so they don't cast disc on the other members).
You could easily do a +15 with 945 in time, it's just people lacking the knowledge of stuff and keep getting arrogant just because they think that their overgeared characters will play by themselves.
i know you for a long time Preach, but this video made me subscribe. great video, thank you.
So sad yet so true... keep up the good work Preach, love your videos.
28:35 But thats a problem there. You talk about guys and who dont't know anything. THEN you a guy who tries really hard in a +9 and wants to do it right and you tell here you don't need that. THAT is also part of a problem: People watch streamers and youtubers and here "bla bla + 14 is so easy you don't need this tactics" and then they wonder why they won't go through the dungeon.
Problem is not really you and other streamers, but people thinking they don't need to learn, because it is eas for others.
Yeah that whole line seemed out of place. Everyone should be using 14+ strategies at +2. That's how you practice and get better at them.
Agreed!
I think that's an overreaction. Part of practicing and improving and learning these mechanics is the knowledge to know what you can "get away with" in situations. It's not a binary system of either doing it one way or not. On lower level keys you can sit in an aoe to finish a cast, pull an extra trash pack, etc and that's FINE. Recognizing you have to change your play based on key level and affixes is part of player responsibility and skill cieling in m+.
I do kind of agree with this - even if you can disregard - you practice in the lower levels.... I feel like that's what you said at the beginning - if they don't know it they avoid it unless they know it perfectly - but if you're saying here to not do mechanics instead of learning the techniques on lower levels - that seems a little at odds with each other. Things like LOS pulling are not a skill built into taunt - folks need to learn how to do this too (e.g. back to your how to tank videos - control the group)
Knowing when you can avoid mechanics is great when everyone knows they can avoid it, but when the person next to you doesn't know why they don't need to move then all you're doing is reinforcing bad behavior. The person learning the fight in a +7 sees no one getting out of the way for a specific mechanic and when they move on to a +10 they think "hey, those 960 guys I played with yesterday didn't move for this. I guess I won't move from it today."
Playing fights the way they're done at higher levels might be annoying but it helps people who are less experienced start to understand the fights.
How would joining a guild solve this? I'm in a guild. When I ask if anyone wants to do m+ I get what I always get - silence. Hardly anyone talks at all in guild chats / group chats anymore. Or there are clicks of 5 best friends who would never play with anyone who isnt 3k mythic score.
By 'guild' he means active raid guild.
Join a different guild. I joined a social guild that regularly recruits random people and kicks inactive ones. We clear HC Antorus at least twice a week and normal more than that, if there are enough people willing to come. There's always enough people to find for a m+ run.
Hate to break it to you mate, but you've joined a social guild or trade chat guild. That isn't going to help you.
Then its shit guild. Last 2 guilds ive been in would have no problem doing dungeons with someone not so geared/experienced.
Sounds like a meh guild, but it could also be that you are outside the social interactions of the guild. I agree that hardly anyone talks in guild chats anymore. I find that the best way to get into groups in guilds is to socialize with the players that are active. Is there a discord or other voice chat that they use? Join the voice chat. Make friends. Once people see you as a person and not just some random guild-person, they will be more willing to seek you out when forming groups. It helps immensely if you are not a jerk and play well, or are actively trying to learn to play well. If all that doesn't work in your guild, slum it on your realm's WoW forum and try to find a new guild. The good ones are ALWAYS recruiting.
This video offers more insight into the state of the game than I've seen in a long time. I have come to the same conclusion although not expressed nearly as succinctly.
Thank you for taking the time to do this social experiment and here's to hoping that the Devs are paying attention and taking notes.
As a content creator you should be very proud of this video preach. I have seen links to this video posted in a few places in which i find my typical WoW media and it has really sparked a community conversation. I found it so interesting and compelling i couldn't help but share it with my gaming friends and guildies on our discord. One of your best yet, keep up the good work.
Romero? For a belf female?
m8 what.?
Romero is a last name.
The rude welcoming to the pug world, there is a reason why I look up every single person I take in both raiding and mythic +.
You see 970 people with both grey logs and barely doing 15s and whenever they do them they don't time them.
I have a guild but sometimes I need to get that one extra pug for m+ or a couple of people in my guild wants to take our alts through Antorus and we need to pug the rest.
I'm seeing you invite pretty much anyone that signs up which means they will most likely have no clue what to do in the dungeons in the 12+ dungeons where shit starts to hurt.
What youre saying about the difficulty curve being more gradual is a very nice thing that Blizzard has said themselves, where tyranical and fortified will be put in +2s and forward in BfA but for now you sorta need to make sure they know what they are doing.
Man I just rewatched this, and that mentality of "oh, well i shouldn't have to do that!" just pisses me off to an irrational level nowadays.
It's like, yeah sure maybe you shouldn't have to, but we don't live in a world of "should", so you fuckin do, bud.
ty for these videos man they are amazing
I would never play DPS in anything but PVP. Absolutely never will put myself through the horrors of ilvl shenanigans like this.
Honestly it's not that bad, the problem Preach is having, is that he's just inviting the first ones to sign up, rather than being more selective. And ofcourse not following the advice we got from Makerov in MW2, NO RUSSIAN.(Which btw is no joke, NEVER invite a Russian).
Derp derpin: For the ones, who don't bother putting a effort i imagine so.
For the decent players? Not at all.
derp derpin no lol. You dont want bad people in your groups, thats what it comes down to
yea you shouldnt be have to be selective. and melee dps is wayyyyyyy more taxing then ranged even juts watching this small sample most of the bad dps is melee. they need to fix how dps even works.
PVP has a higher ilvl requirement than pve..unless you're at like a 2600 skill level. My 974 dh will 100% do more dps in pvp than any of your mains i promise.
warlock is cheating smh
redo this on a fresh account playing only Survival you noob
jk ily
Hunter is op solo you n00b :P
don't forget without boost
Should've played demo lol
I don't have any issue getting into pugs on my survival hunter (which is my main) but I also don't suck at my class like most players in the mythic + pug world.
_Rayth_ congratulations. Here, take this downvote as a reward!
Such an awesome series. I've learned quite a bit from these and I'm a decent player.
You can lead a horse to water. But you can't make him drink.
Actually wow did start it. When reaching cap a few expansion back you were required to have a ceratin Item Level or the Instances were locked for you. That is where the community got it from.
Not quite. The player base created the addon "gearscore" (which gave you score based on how good your gear was) in WotLK which was widely used for everything pug related. Blizzard merely chose to adopt the system and make it something official for Cataclysm dungeons and beyond.
ilvl comes from gearscore, which was a player-made construct in late BC. It's not all on Blizzard, it's not all on the players, but both contribute to the problem.
"Gear score is a numerical value based on the statistics of a player's gear. It is (supposedly) the maximum potential of a player's performance. However, it is up to the player to perform that well. In addition to item level (ilvl), the item's actual statistics or abilities may or may not be included for calculation, as determined by specific formulas or addons." Gearscore was used for players who could and could not go on raids. Although like Ilevel it is not. Wow locked content behind ilevel first not players who only started useing ilevel to judge people by after wow lock content behind it and added it to the game.
Everyone who is a good player inspects people who seem to have trouble or want to go on raids/mythic. That has nothing to do with ether gear score or Ilevel as these tools were used so they didn't have to look at the gear being used
So? They used to also have a rule you needed to go through normal dungeons before you could step into heroic versions. You had to get attuned and clear through each raid tier before getting into the later ones. The game has evolved over the years, item level being a general starting point for figuring out the general skill level of a player has been valid up until this Titanforging shit skewed everything all to hell.
As it stands right now, AoTC achievements and raider.io scores are a part of the game now and despite what people may think it does weed out a lot of people who can't handle the content. Unless you really think that if AoTC and raider.io disappeared that suddenly the quality of pug raids would drastically improve.
The only truely major reason why raider.io score is a pain is for those of us who are only trying to do the minimum each week for the chest during reset. If that reward wasn't involved, then I wouldn't be running Mythic+ very much beyond the general gearing process while the item level was relevant. People putting a high gear score requirement in order to get into +15 pugs is troublesome for those who don't have many friends/guildies that do it consistently.
And as its been stated, if people just took the time to find a quality guild with like-minded people or at minimum a handful of friends to do stuff with, it makes a world of difference in how much easier and enjoyable the game is.
100% blizz fault. they have set up the entire game to be ILVL when we need to go WAY back to when u inv people and everyone is open to learn. vanilla and bc days.
fluffy341 well not 100% considering the players created ilvl aka gearscore
People have to be open to learn, but also open to teach. In my experience with Seat specifically, it is always a fail because no one does it. I was in a group one time. The leader instantly kicked 4 people as soon as they asked a question. Bear in mind this wasn't a +16. This was like +6 or 7.
There are some people that act like douchebags when you suggest they do something wrong. Most are silent and some are quite thankful for the feedback. But mostly we are stuck in this viscious cycle where everyone expects everyone else to understand something. But when they don't, they don't speak up because of fear of someone lashing out at them.
Everyone was friendly, open and helpful? In TBC?
Oh, sweet summer child...
Back in the day people didn't invite you because "Oh they're open to learn." In Vanilla a majority of the time only 20-25 of those 40 people even had half a brain. The rest of the raid was just there because you needed 40 people.
When they couldn't see your ilvl, they asked for achievment. When achievments weren't a thing, they inspected your gear. It's not really blizz fault, that people want everything fast and easy.
Great videos and thank you for years of steady quality content! Anyway my little addition this is: I think the reason behind the big chunk of players you describe is the fact that mythic plus rewards doesn't scale indefinitely with key level, so basically if you wanna get higher gear quicker its easier to do loads of +15. The second thing that unfortunately pairs with this in a maleficent way is that far from many people enjoy the challenges of higher keys resulting in high ilvl people at +15 keys which create a ilvl pressure down the mythic plus key levels.
I would say the best way would be to allow the rewards to scale slow but indefinitely but with a cap just below the mythic raids. And then the dungeon key level that gives almost mythic raider gear be around 27 keys. That way people can go higher for better rewards which might thin out the huge ilvl chunk.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm sure I'm not the only one who recognized so many familiar situations on them. Yeah, it's a though world out there.
I was the monk in the first dungeon you showed. I don't want to sound like a douche here, but alot of what you showed/said in the video was very out of context, and in some cases not true at all. You also skipped out the part where you said "Just use a defensive, because the healer are obviously not going to dispell" or something along those lines. You also took out the part that showed that we ACTUALLY DID USE OUR CDS on 50%. Lastly, we did not give ANY advice to the healer other than telling him to dispell. Any comment on that?
oh shitttttt
Well we can see one of you typing the heals too low, so.....?
oh shiiiieet
I saw Preach eat just about every Cosmic Scythe on his MoS runs too... he talks a big game but honestly he's expecting a carry and is fuckin up a lot too. Too bad he has so many fanbois that just can't see through it
Took an 8 month break from the game, 930 ilvl. Joined a Normal AtBT run, top DPS every fight...... There are simply too many bad players now.
They were always there, you just weren't exposed to them.
They were given gear easily and don't know how to play, or what mechanics are. That's why they're so prominent now.
The gear gifts have been prevalent for a lot longer than 8 months. The 110 boosts however are causing an issue...just like they did at the end of WoD. These problems are nothing new.
The 8 month thing is "I haven't played in 8 months, first day resubbing without getting ANY new gear, still topping meters against those that have been playing during that time"
The larger the community the worse the player base. That is a fact
Man I would rage so hard if this was me . You're a good man for being calm and sticking with it
Thank you for your vid, helped me a lot and made me happy i joined nice and polite guild willing to help all spectrums of skill players. Myself i am yet to get a single 110 char but i could understand and follow most of info and dungeons difficulty. You have made it clear to not chase the high gear for the wrong reasons and learn the game :D Thx again !