@@TheFuriator only exeggutor is the pure meta pick. chansey has to run light screen to not get overwhelmed and slowbro is otherwise good but not that great (it dropped to uubl in rby just recently and is only b- ranked on the ou vr). plus zacian-c had fellow uber necrozma dusk mane to check it
@@superinhow2048 that’s not true. Quaggy has some purpose in checking random threats in most tiers. Arcanine doesn’t do anything outside it’s own tier.
I feel like a big reason why mewtwo is easier to stop than say, mega ray or zacian, is the lack of opportunity cost in gen 1 ubers. Since mewtwo utterly destroys anything that isn't specifically brought to defeat it, you can build your team around having a mewtwo, mewtwo counters, and counters to mewtwo counters (which mewtwo will most likely destroy). Heck, a pokemon's place in the RBY Ubers rankings is almost solely determined by : - can it annoy mewtwo ? - can it beat mewtwo ? - can it lure / beat mewtwo counters ? Pokemon like Starmie or Alakazam violently drop because they're mostly outclassed by mewtwo and don't really like the fact that the teams focus on beating fast special attacking psychic types. Rhydon is much worse as well, because Tauros isn't as important to stop, and cloyster isn't even a thing because it doesn't do anything against mewtwo, or mewtwo counters. On the other hand, slowbro is super good because it can boost alongside mewtwo and (likely) beats non-tbolt sets, when the same slowbro is kinda eh in regular RBY OU (still has a niche, but eh). This is completely unimaginable in gens 6 or 8 with zacian or ray. You can't just bring pokemon based on how well they do against ray / zacian because you also have to take the rest of the ubers tier into account, featuring primal groudon, primal kyogre, xerneas, M-gengar, dew lati@s and ekiller in ray's case and calyrex-S, eternatus, necrozma-DM, marshadow, Kyogre or Xerneas in zacian's case. You can't just slap quagsire+tangrowth on your team because of the opportunity cost of not using other uber pokemon. This phenomenon doesn't exist (or is at least much less impactful) in RBY ubers, ironically making mewtwo less of an unstoppable monster.
It's kinda funny how the main argument against mewtwo being as broken as zacian and mega ray is that no one else is good enough to threathen the opponent alongside mewtwo.
It speaks of how broken Mewtwo is though, since it is so far above the rest that it completely shapes the meta game. Mega-Ray and Zacian aren’t as broken, as Mewtwo was, in their respective generations since they aren’t shaping the meta around them
@@ericemanuelsson7416 naw I see it as, mega ray and zacian are so unbelievably broken that it even looks broken COMPARED to the broken shit around it. Like mray and zacian are broken in comparison to things like eternatus yveltal xerneas primal gdon calyrex etc. Do you realize how insane that is? Yes mewtwo was metagame defining but thats by virtue of it being the only really broken thing to exist.
@@tast3ofk0lea that point kind of falls flat since the same thing could be said for Mewtwo, “Oh my god, Mewtwo is so broken even in a meta game with broken Pokémon like Taurus, Snorlax and Alakazam”. All three of the Pokémon are broken despite the competition, and within that Mewtwo is the only one to center and shape the meta game around it
The thing with zacian and mray is that they were overpowered, and centralised the format, but you never needed to give up more than a couple team slots to handle them. The problem was, that giving up said slots allowed other broken Pokemon to capatilise. In gen 1, you are allowed to just run 5 Mewtwo counters. The metagame is unquestionably centralised, and built to counter one specific threat. There's also the fact that mray and zacian, even when allowed in ubers never had 100% usage. In fact, in the viability rankings for gen 6 ag, mray is actually behind both primal groudon and Arceus. In contrast, running a gen 1 team without Mewtwo is absolutely idiotic. Running a gen 1 ubers team without Mewtwo, and at 2-3 Mewtwo "counters" is absolutely idiotic. Thats how much it centralized the metagame. In ag, there's no dupe clause, so you can run copies of Pokemon. While mray is restricted by its mechanics, there's nothing stopping you from running 6 zacian. Despite this, it's not really viable. Thus, we can see that zacian might be the best current Pokemon, but it's not so good that it's pointless running other things. On the other hand, if you were to turn off dupe clause in rby ubers, pretty much the only thing that you would see would be teams of 6 Mewtwo. Thus, I'd probably say that it's the other way around. Mewtwo is more busted than these particular threats, and they're overrated. They also lose to status. They also have counters. They also don't counter their entire metagame. The thing they have over Mewtwo is that they have the benefit of a metagame that's not solely centralised on countering them in any way possible.
when the main argument for why mewtwo isn't as broken as mega-ray and zacian is the fact that no one else is good enough to capitalize on the opponents needing to build their team around enemy mewtwo really just speaks volumes about how broken mewtwo actually is.
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo. This comment just shows how little you understand the RBY Ubers metagame, and that you should play a format before you comment on its balance.
@@shellnut8224 Snorelax, mew, and eggy are good partially because of their ability to somewhat check M2. Literally the only one of these with no game against M2 is rhydon, and rhydon is easily the worst of the 4 you named. In fact, M2 + 5 M2 "counters" that I was referring to is mew, snore, Chan, eggy, slow.
Even after watching this I still think gen 1 Mewtwo is the most powerful thing to ever exist in competitive. The one thing that stops the format being unplayable is that there's only 2 actual uber mons, so you can afford to dedicate half your teamslots to checking Mewtwo. Imagine if you had to fight Mewtwo every game but also prepare for other Uber-tier threats, you'd be stretched way too thin.
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
If there were other Uber tier threats they would also need to be powerful enough to be a threat and unique enough to be better than Mewtwo. M. Ray can do something Mewtwo can't, sweep and destroy things that used to be the strongest in the format. There just wasn't anything that was as consistent vs M. Ray as there was for Mewtwo. The amount of support moves in later generations also just helps prop up already strong pokemon, imagine if heal bell or hazards existed gen 1
You shouldn't use hypotheticals like that. We are considering who was most op in their respective generation. If gen 1 had less ubers, then take that into account. That would be like saying for mega ray "imagine if fairy didn't exist like in gen 1 and it could spam outrage". That's not how it was so no need to consider it.
@@bfc9467 I don't think that analogy works well, because Fairy was deliberately introduced as a check to dragon types. Mewtwo's situation in gen1 on the other hand was an accident - competitive play wasn't a thing back then and Mewtwo was overpowered on purpose. So what I'm saying is that it was basically luck that Mewtwo turned out to not be entirely game-ruining. If any modern format was dominated to the degree that Mewtwo dominated gen 1, it would be banned to AG so fast. But gen 1 ubers only has 2 pokemon in it - there would be no point having a tier above that even though there's clearly a full tier's worth of power level difference between him and Mew. It's unapologetically Mewtwo's own personal tier. That's why he doesn't feel oppressive in the same way that Zacian/M-Ray did. Not because he's weaker, but because there was never any expectation that gen 1 ubers would be anything else.
@@dm9910 Yep. The same thing would happen to Mega Ray if it was introduced to Gen 7 OU. Everyone would spam Mimikyu, Ditto, Sash Counter Magic Guard Clefable to stop Mega Ray. All of the top tier Ubers Pokémon are ironically easier to handle in OU if they were just introduced to OU for some reason. It’s just that it would be over centralizing which Ubers doesn’t really care but OU won’t allow.
So it's weaknesses are ''can't do literally everything at once.'', ''not immune to status/to valuable to get statused.'' and ''it's so good that the entire metagame revolves around beating it.''? Umm I think this video only confirmed just how broken mewtwo is. edit: Note that most of the arguments im seeing in other comments here basically come down to the fact that zacian and mega ray are more broken because there are other terrifying pokemon that can take advantage of the opponents team always including counters to zacian or mega ray. But i'd argue ''no one is anywhere near as powerful as mewtwo in gen 1.'' doesn't really make mewtwo seem any less broken.
Indeed, this video feels like an out of season april fools joke. Gen 1 Mewtwo is just broken, and again, it would still be the best mon in gen 2 if it had gen 1 amnesia or even calm mind, despite all the nerfs it got. There's still competitive potential, BUT you can't even pretend it's not obsenely broken, just like you can't pretend gen 2 Snorlax, M-Rayquaza or Zacian Crowned aren't busted, even when it makes the meta "healthier".
@@seanscott2677 Gen 2 snorlax, a regular single evolution mon, is considered in modern competitive to be BETTER than Mew and Mewtwo, the 2 best legendaries, probably due to lovely kiss stuff. That's the definition of busted.
I mean yeah mewtwo isn't unbeatable but it's basically mandatory to use a mewtwo in order to push in the gen 1 uber ladder. The fact that an opposing mewtwo itself is one of the best ways to counter mewtwo says a lot. No it can't counter everything because of the 4 move slot syndrome but you have 5 other slots on your team that you can fill with pokemon that can compensate for what your given mewtwo set can't deal with. Also the opportunity for mind games is there since your opponent doesn't know what mewtwo is running until you use all of its moves.
To be fair 2-3 slots are used to check enemy mewtwo so your mewtwo can come out ahead and the last slots are check/counter to the mewtwo checks so your mewtwo stay healthy lol
@@wizard5552 thats not really the case, you only need chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
This video really contextualized why gen 1 needs a freeze clause. In your previous video I had no idea to what extent high level play still comes down to two opponents fishing for a freeze
If you wanted to think of high tiered gen 1 mons, think of chess pieces and consider Mewtwo a queen. Usually, because both teams will have one, the game becomes all about how you position your other pieces to deal with the queen.
Apply same logic for OU of gen 1 and 2, but replacing Mewtwo with Tauros and Snorlax. Definitely not my cup of tea considering it allows next to no creativity on teambuilding.
@@marakrofitcac3425 Except thats not really the case, RBY Ubers is an incredibly diverse tier, with many viable Pokemon, movesets, and strategies, and many important threats to play around asides Mewtwo, such as Mew, Snorlax, Tauros, Slowbro, Zapdos, Exeggutor, Chansey, and so on. Mewtwo doesn't solely determine the viability of mons, and Pokemon which are setup food for Mewtwo are completely viable Pokemon to use in the tier. For example, Aerodactyl is a good Pokemon (B tier threat) which has seen success in tournament play as a hard wall to Snorlax and Mew's most common sets, both of whom are nigh-mandatory picks on teams, and is complete garbage against Mewtwo. Yet even despite being terrible against Mewtwo, people run it because of how well it handles other top threats in the metagame.
This is a good video and, ironically, a very good argument as to why Gen 1 Mewtwo is more broken than Mega Ray and Zacian. Mewtwo forces the entire meta game to revolve around it, where Pokemon viability is determined by if it helps in the battle against Mewtwo in some way. Gen 1 Ubers sole reason to exist is to use Mewtwo and it's basically is the original Anything Goes. If Mega Rayquaza and Zacian where the only Pokemons in their respective Gens, then a lot of counters would've been found. But since there are other Pokemon besides Mega Ray and Zacian, they were banned to AG.
Mewtwo, while centralizing, doesn't dictate the entire metagame of Ubers. There are plenty of fantastic Pokemon in Ubers, such as Snorlax, Chansey, and Mew, which also heavily influence the viability of other Pokemon, with Pokemon which are complete garbage against Mewtwo, such as Aerodactyl and Golbat, having niches in Ubers because of how they handle other top metagame threats, namely Mew and Snorlax.
Disagree 100% the entire video is explaining how Mewtwo isn't as overpowered as people think... As another commentor said, another thing that helps deal with Mewtwo is that there were no other pokemon that you were forced to deal with. You could build your entire team around controlling Mewtwo and your good There were too many other threats in later games. Ya cant just build a team to beat Ray or Zacian cause you'd get smoked by the other competition as your team would be very inflexible Hence why they were both Banned from Ubers. Something Mewtwo cant say
@@shellnut8224after Snorlax, Chansey and Mew I feel like the 5th and 6th best Pokémon in Gen 1 Ubers have to be Slowbro and Exeggutor They both have unique traits that no other Pokémon like Zapdos, Tauros, Gengar and Rhydon’s can’t replicate. They don’t get sweep by Mewtwo and Mew that easily and can strike back hard
@@jdrmanmusiqkingusually the triangle of Light screen chansey + Slowbro + Exeggutor is more than enough to keep the other Mewtwo from sweeping your team and these Pokémon are already fantastic with dealing with other Pokémon as well
No pokemon is uncounterable not zacian crowned, not mega-rayquaza, and not gen 4 arceus but at the same time the fact that one of the main strategies to beat mewtwo is to freeze it says a lot about its competition for best competitive pokemon of all time every other mon on the list has weaknesses sure arceus only had one and it was by no means a great type at the time but mewtwo’s only weakness was bug a type with a maximum of a 50bp move and said moves were either A.on beedrill (garbage) B. Not always 50 bp
Ehhhh... Mega Ray was pretty uncounterable. There were pretty much zero mons that could beat it consistently. Even the ones that did were usually very gimmicky, a good player could always spot the gimmick and either mitigate it or play around it.
By no means a great type at the time? What planet are you from? Gen 1 psychic is stupidly broken and also I believe you contracted yourself but saying it's only weakness was a single move.
I remember in the "Vs Mewtwo" Match in Pokemon Stadium I just cheesed it by paralyzing Mewtwo and then Wrapping it to death with Dragonite lol. Obviously that wouldn't work against a human player because you can switch out of Wrap in Gen 1, but it was still funny to beat Mewtwo like that
@@rubbegameing5370 Small thing, you CAN’T play around Mega Rayquaza or Zacian Crowned. They made their own tiers two. Anything goes, in which only Zacian Crowned and Mega Rayquaza stand.
So many people on this comments section underestimate Swords Dance Mew, Exeggutor, Tobybro, Light Screen Chansey and Self destruct Snorlax as decent Mewtwo checks
@@bryanc1772 Smogon defines a check as something that can beat the pokemon with a free switch in. Mewtwo's single best counter except for itself is mew or Chansey. And even then, Mewtwo still checks Chansey. While you are right these mons can decently check amnesia metwo. What does Chansey do against physical metwo? What does Exeggutor do against a Mewtwo behind a reflect? answer is nothing. They lose. The best way to think about it if you want to counter Mewtwo the best option is Mewtwo. If you think you can counter it with anything else. Mewtwo would be a better counter.
@@burlyhalfling I think that Mewtwo suffering of 4MSS and having two very mandated Moves ( Amensia and Recover ) limits it a lot and it’s always going to fall short of something Blizzard and Thunderbolt are the best moves to run on Mewtwo to quickly dispatch Slowbro and Exeggutor who you absolutely do not want to give breathing room and a chance to freeze Light Screen Chansey and Mewtwo but you won’t be breaking thru these two easily with that moveset Exeggutor can put Mewtwo to sleep or para if it doesn’t explode. Reflect and Barrier are not common on Mewtwo. It can be run but you are sacrificing a coverage move and get walled more easily by another Psychic type or Normal type Psychic and Submission can be run for Light Screen Chansey and Amensia Snorlax but you are not hitting anything else hard that you would already with Thunderbolt and Blizzard/Ice Beam In short, nothing fully counters Mewtwo in general but Mewtwo can’t deal with everything at once either
LMAO I remember someone making a poll, either you or another poketuber about which Mon was the strongest: Mewtwo in Gen 1 Mega Ray in Gen 6 Zacian in Gen 8 And EVERYONE in the comments was talking about Mewtwo in Gen 1. This'll be interesting as all hell Edit: it was you from 5 days ago, I'm so hyped to watch this video now xD
Still tough, if you put the same effort into playing around Mega Ray, it doesn't look that op either. Paralysis, stealth rocks, ditto ... And Zacian is walled by Quagsire. op and bad for the game =/= unbeatable
@@richardhauer8391 but the main difference is mewtwo's "checks" are all meta pokemon that you would use even if mewtwo wasn't on the opponent's team. with someone like zacian for example, you have to bring a quagsire into ubers which isn't ideal if you're dedicating an entire slot just for one pokemon and nothing else. mewtwo is still really op though and its unpredictability is what makes it so op in the first place.
I don't get your argument. The whole meta is centered around mewtwo and you need multiple pokemon to just keep it in check. And you also have to keep your own mewtwo out of ice beams to avoid losing it alltogether. Sounds pretty busted if you ask me
Yeah, but when youtubers talk about gen 1 Mewtwo, they talk as if Mewtwo were some sort of unbeatable force that only another Mewtwo could counter it, but it's just not the case. It's busted, yeah, and it requires you to adjust the moves of multiple Pokémon so it doesn't sweep you, but it's not THAT busted. There are ways to counter it that don't rely on another Mewtwo.
Yeah but Gen 1 Mewtwo is basically Brawl Meta Knight in that the viability of every other Pokémon in existence are solely defined by how well/badly they handle Mewtwo
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
@@breloommaster12 Uh yeah, no not even close, their viability is also heavily determined by how they handle Mew, Snorlax, Chansey, Tauros, Exeggutor, and the litany of other important threats in the metagame.
@@shellnut8224 While I'm not discrediting the presence of other threats aside from Mewtwo, the ability to at least deal with Mewtwo in some way is absolutely paramount compared to anything else in the meta that makes a mon worth using at all or not. Of the mons you listed, only Rhydon doesn't fit this bill, and that is solely because it is the 'anti-meta' Pokémon that absorbs Thunder Waves, Hyper Beams, and Selfdestructs/Explosions that are used to punish Mewtwos. One of the most shining examples of this is Slowbro, who is typically overlooked as a Psychic-type option in favour of Starmie and Alakazam, suddenly skyrocketing in viability to take on Mewtwo while the faster Psychics are left in the dust.
Kind of an interesting way to think about pokemon. You know 2 of your pokemon are going to be completely invalidated by freeze and sleep, so you bring a team of 6 and have to win with a team of 4. That's kinda cool
Generation 1 and 2 also have a cap limit on stat boosting moves. I knew this to be the case in Gen 2, where Marowak and Scizor can't use Swords Dance multiple times without rolling over the cap. But I was wondering why Mewtwo vs Mewtwo is so insanely stall, and it's because you can barely boost past +3 without hitting the cap. Im assuming the damage calculator factors this in and stops at 999 instead of rolling over. Edit: rephrased, way i wrote it initially was dumb and didn't make sense.
The reason why Mewtwo dittos are so absurdly stally is because Special is just one stat, and the only physical attack Mewtwo commonly runs is a relatively weak and inaccurate Fighting type attack. Since Mewtwo love to spam Amnesia, this boosts both their attack and defense against each other, not really resulting in any net difference. Unless one of them has set up while the other hasn't, they're dealing ~14% to each other with each attack, while both of them almost certainly knows Recover. Since KOing through normal damage is unfeasible, usually they are either spamming Ice Beam and fishing for the freeze to effectively remove the opposing Mewtwo, or spamming Psychic to go for the special drop to force a +4 Mewtwo to overflow.
Funnily enough, often times Mewtwo in Gen 1 will run what is known as the "Safetwo" stat spread to prevent its Special stat from rolling over at +4 which is basically just lowering its DVs and maybe EVs (I forget).
@@CAFFIENEHOUND Gen 1 had protection against rollover, it just...wasn't perfect. But +3 Mewtwo is capped just fine at 999, as is +4 Mewtwo. What causes the system to break is if the most recent change in stats was caused by something being *decreased* instead of increased, since they forgot to have the game check if it should cap stats after calculating the new value. Here's a video explaining how it works in wayyyy more detail than I ever could. th-cam.com/video/y2AOm7r39Jg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Crystal_
>mewtwo isn't as strong as you think >because the other mewtwo can clear it out after it takes a status effect I mean, you're not wrong... (Love the meta analysis btw, these thought videos are great)
I’m just thinking back to when me and my friends had the link cable playing against each other. We had absolutely no idea wtf we were doing. Just having fun using our favorite Pokémon. Of course we brought the over leveled starter. The good ole days. You youngster joeys don’t know about those days 👴
This couldn't be further from the truth. RBY Ubers is an incredibly diverse metagame, with many sets and viable strategies (Aerodactyl is viable ffs, and its trash vs Mewtwo), and is far more than just a Mewtwo war.
Moreso its set determines if 1 of your pokemon is a hard wall to it or not, but you still check it with Chansey and your own Mewtwo (and Mew and Snorlax).
Mewtwo was certainly powerful and abused nearly every aspect of Gen 1 to the fullest, but its dominance is also attributed to the lack of competition. Zacian and Mega Ray do deserve credit for being broken in metagames filled to the brim with incredibly dangerous threats.
@@breloommaster12 gen 1 also had incredibly dangerous threats though. mew, taurus, snorlax, chansey, exeggutor to name a few. these pokemon were EXTREMELY OPPRESSIVE in gen 1. zacian and mega rayquaza could be checked by very specific pokemon if you could predict their movesets, but mewtwo required several pokemon to check it, and sometimes that didn't even work. the only pokemon that could beat mewtwo was another mewtwo, meanwhile zacian C and mega rayquaza could be feasibly cleaned up or beaten by other top tier pokemon if you got a good predict.
@@eoeaoe12e when I say 'incredibly dangerous', I was referring to threats that could even hold a candle to Mewtwo's power level, and among those, only Mew could even come close to rivaling its presence. Modern Ubers is chock full of _actual Ubers-level_ monsters that teams still had to worry about in addition to the oppressive dominance of Zacian and MRay in their respective metas. That said, I personally feel that Zacian isn't quite on the level of Mewtwo and MRay, since Zacian's relative lack of flexibility in both item choice and attacking spectrum (physical only) is notable when many other Ubers have access to a wider variety of options to prep for; Mewtwo didn't have to worry about having a wide movepool when it has literally all it needs out of a pool of ~6 moves to dominate the smaller scope of its meta, while MRay's sheer versatility is in a league of its own while also being the complete opposite situation of Zacian's limitations (mixed attacking capability and item freedom).
@@breloommaster12 and see, that's the thing. no one could match mewtwo's power level, because he was TOO STRONG. not because other pokemon were weak (tauros is weak by gen 8 standards, but keep in mind that tauros was the best pokemon in OU hands down in gen 1, and you were 100% required to run it in every team)
@@eoeaoe12e I mean sure, if you want to rate Mewtwo's dominance in terms of how it massively outperformed everything else that existed in its generation, Mewtwo certainly has a strong case of being the most broken Pokémon of all time. Personally, I hold more respect for Pokémon that are a level above other numerous threats that are also OP in their own right. For example, Gen 2 Snorlax outperformed all of the actual Ubers of its generation. Considering the sheer amount of power creep that Ubers has undergone throughout the generations, the fact that Mega Ray and to a lesser extent Zacian are able to stay ahead of the curve despite that, is a testament to their power. It's like how Staraptor staying in UUBL all these generations is actually a strong display of Raptor managing to keep up above the increasingly powerful UU tiers for so long.
The meta is still centralized around it. As you'll want to build your team around taking the opposing Mewtwo down. Any lead will try to sleep or paralyze it, then use strong physical attacks with the hope of using an explosion or hyper beam to finish it off.
the broblem with gen1 is that there are too may broken things, para, sleep, and freeze are absolutely broken self-destruct/explosion are broken, normal and psychic type are broken, special stat is broken. so it's not like a pokemon that can get at +6 sp.def and sp.atk with recover in 3 turn, with a broken type is not broken, is that it has to play around with the broken statuses and the absurd amount of psychic pokemon that are there to resist psychic attacks XD
This is a good video, but yeah I gotta echo some of the other sentiments I've seen. In the case of Ray and Zacian, they define a large part of the meta but also compete with so many other mechanics that have piled on, their spotlight is shared. RBY Mewtwo is THE meta. In later gens, you've got a variety of checks and balances on your team for a number of different pokemon, and it's an intricate puzzle of dismantling the enemy team, but you don't really stack your team to deal with one specific pokemon. Mewtwo defines the teams you build, your strategy going in, evert decision you make in the game. It has several counters, sure, but also you as an opponent have an opportunity to bring so many counters to one specific pokemon. RBY Mewtwo centralizes the competitive game so heavily all on its own vs future gens where that task is accomplished with multiple pokemon. Mega Ray and Zacian-C are insanely powerful, but I feel like the comparative meta impact of one RBY Mewtwo vs many Ubers legendaries in more modern formats is context that's somewhat being ignored here.
What are you talking about? A lot of what counters or checks Mewtwo are already good Pokémon in their own right Snorlax can beat everything and anything and Aerodactyl doesn’t exist for shit except as a gimmick pick Exeggutor can cripple or take down anything Pokémon it wants to with its standard set including Mewtwo and Mew especially those lacking Ice Beam Chansey with Light Screen acts as a good support mon and wear down not just Mewtwo but also Tobybro . You can run sing and ice beam over those moves but generally I prefer light screen chansey with T wave and s toss to act as a good support mon. It’s always a realiable t waver Slowbro not just checks non Thunderbolt Mewtwo but also is bulky enough to check mew Tauros and Snorlax and non light screen chansey. top tier threats
big suprise, mewtwo cant do everything at once and thus cannot win every battle, but that doesnt change anything. of course theres a lot of counterplay for mewtwo, but it sounds much simpler on paper than it is to actually pull off in practice. its like with zacian, its power level is so far above the rest that it doesnt matter whether you know its coming or not, youre gonna have a hard time regardless, not even considering mewtwos superior versatility. gen 1 mewtwo is broken and it cannot be overrated. "not being as broken as you think" is just flat out wrong unless you think mewtwo is undefeatable and invincible
The mainstream idea of Mewtwo is that its an unstoppable force which auto-wins as soon as it sets up, in practice it has many flaws and can be played around if you know what your doing, so I think saying its not as broken as you think is quite apt (I wrote that line).
Mewtwo is not breaking the LS Chansey + Slowbro + Exeggutor core anytime soon because it’s always going to be missing a coverage move for one of those Pokémon Not to mention facing the Opposing Mewtwo as well
"Mewtwo is not as overpowered as you think it is" Yeah sure, forcing the whole metagame around one Pokémon and making the whole strategy of your team about defeating the opponent's Mewtwo and saving your own dosen't make Mewtwo overpowered
Mewtwo isn’t the only Pokémon that needs to be taken into consideration. Other Pokémon like Mew, Snorlax, Exeggutor, Chansey, Slowbro Tauros, Zapdos , and rhydon need to be accounted 4 Personally after Mewtwo and Mew I prefer to just run Chansey Snorlax, Slowbro and Exeggutor since your chances of getting swept by Mewtwo is low in addition to checking other threats like Mew and Snorlax and Zapdos
Hey, so I'm the script writer for the video, and I've been seeing a lot of misconceptions about the points in the video and the RBY Ubers metagame in the comments, so I'm writing this comment to address thos. The content in the video was from my own experience playing ubers, and from reading discussions on the tier with other players such as Enigami, Ctown, and Peasounay, to name a few. - Freezai is just being contrarian, FSG said its the most broken ever and I trust them more. A lot of FSG's content for generation 1 is inaccurate, especially for non-OU tiers, and that top 5 video is a perfect example of that. Many gen 1 ubers players strongly felt that the video was incredibly misleading and that the writers for it had hardly played gen 1 Ubers at all, myself included, which is a large reason why I wrote this video, to explain why their video was wrong. -Mewtwo is only fine because you run 5 counters to it along with your own Mewtwo. This is completely false and shows a complete lack of knowledge on RBY Ubers. Most of the mons that are used to handle Mewtwo, such as Chansey, Slowbro, Mew, Exeggutor, and Snorlax, are good Pokemon in their own right that you would be using regardless of if Mewtwo was in the tier or not, the only thing it forces is for Chansey to run Light Screen on one set to burn through Mewtwo's limited attacking PP and let it have more chances to freeze, and even that is only one moveslots on one of its two main sets in Ubers, it's other set consists of Sing, Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Soft Boiled, which is a normal set run in OU, albeit less common than the Ice Beam variant. While it does incentivize the use of aggressive Snorlax sets, those sets are completely viable to run in OU, and was the main set Snorlax ran for 15 years. What Mewtwo does in the builder is force you to use good Pokemon and movesets you would run anyways, which is far less restrictive than Pokemon like Zacian-C which have a handful of answers to either of its sets, most of which are terrible mons which offer virtually nothing else. - If freeze is a reliable strategy to handle Mewtwo then that just shows how broken it is. This response just shows how little you play a tier. While yes, on any given turn a freeze is not reliable to go for, the video is not talking about freezing on any one turn, it is talking about freezing Mewtwo with one Ice Beam out of 16 while your own Mewtwo is paralyzed or you are going for the freeze with your Chansey, preventing your Mewtwo from being frozen, which occurs over 80% of the time, which is consistent to go for. Getting an event which occurs over 80% of the time isn't hax, it's just expected. - Not being immune to status doesn't make a mon not broken. This misses a lot of key factors about the tier, and the point of the video to begin with, which was debunking the myth of Mewtwo being an unstoppable monster in Ubers with hardly any counterplay except for using your own Mewtwo or specialized strategies and Pokemon, used to handle it, as some sources would have you believe. I already covered freeze, so I won't do that again, but let's now go over sleep and paralysis. Sleep is incredibly important to gen 1 play, playing a large factor in the balance of every tier, and Ubers is no exception. Even without Mewtwo you would run a sleep user, it's just that good. And because it is so potent, it ends up being an effective tool to threaten Mewtwo with early in the game, and opens up lines of counterplay. Paralysis is incredibly easy to spread in Gen 1 and a core part of nearly every tier, because of how many top mons run Thunder Wave, Stun Spore, or Body Slam. It just is fundamental to the generation and would be important to Ubers regardless of if Mewtwo existed. And mentioned, as mentioned in the video, once paralyzed, this opens up Mewtwo to being checked by physical attackers exploiting its lowered speed Stat to threaten KOs or heavy damage. All of these statuses are core parts of how Gen 1 play functions, they are the furthest things from a specialized that exists. Anyways, I hope you all enjoyed the video, if you have any feedback or questions you would like to ask please ask them, I and other players would be happy to answer when we can. I definitely should have explained that the core argument was that all these ways of handling Mewtwo are fundamental parts of gen 1 play, with the mons and statuses all being used because they are strong and not just listing them off. Sorry if this got a bit rantlike, I just got frustrated with comments from people who have never played gen 1 that trying to debunk the video.
YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF with the original title. I'll put this simple, If the entire meta is centered around checking something (Not countering, that thing lacks real counters) then you are just proving the mon is busted. That being said being busted is not good enough reason to ban something or else gen 2 Snorlax would be ubers, you need to be nocive for the tier's integrity. M-Rayquaza got banned not only for being ridiculously strong, but also because the team structure left behind is so weak, even though Primal Groudon is considered a tiny bit better due to higher flexibility. Zacian-crowned in Ubers followed a weird story who kinda proves my point: At the beginning of the tier he was allowed to exist due to fire type dynamax and having so few legendaries, so it wasn't a big deal to dedicate half of your team to counter Zacian-crowned. Then the Crown Tundra came and with that Calyrex-Shadow (Who's being suspect tested right now) and a whole lot of legendaries, as well as the Dynamax ban. The dog+horse combo was and still is just unwallable without dynamax, due to how fairy covers dark and Calyrex can defeat Zacian checks, and if you try to check those 2 you still have a Yveltal, Marshadow, Eternatus and Necrozma DM to worry about, therefore they banned the better part of the combo in Zacian crowned and Zacian shortly after. What's the takeaway? Simple, that the ubers powercreep and Calyrex was what pushed Zacian-C over the edge; Ironically being less broken relatively speaking made it more broken in practice.
I think it's unfair to just say that Mewtwo's checks are mons you would run anyways, when many of Gen 1 OU's best Pokemon are underused in Ubers *specifically because* they aren't as great at fighting Mewtwo. Starmie, Alakazam and Cloyster are all at the tip of OU's iceberg, yet they find themselves D ranks in the most recent Ubers viability rankings. The fact that Ubers and OU are different metas *at all* instead of Ubers just being OU sets + two new mons shows how much they need to be respected. At any rate, the distinction between Ubers and OU of gens 1/2 are largely maintaining the tradition of those mons always being banned at events in the past, so it's hard to really fathom their balance when compared to more modern metagames. Perhaps a better question to ask wouldn't be "is gen 1 Mewtwo better than Mega Ray?" but rather something more along the lines of "Is gen 1 Mewtwo better than gen 2 Snorlax?" *that's* a comparison I'd like to see at some point because they feel really similar. I dunno where I'm going with this. Kinda just spewing nonsense. Uhhhhhh
While nothing is guranteed with fighting Mewtwo I think that generally Light Screen Chansey, Self destruct Snorlax, Swords Dance/ Transform Mew , Exeggutor with its standard set , and Tobybro all have some capacity to deal or annoy Mewtwo to some degree and no other Pokémon in the game qualified for this - besides your own Mewtwo of course I just wonder why Exeggutor and Slowbro are not considered as 5th or 6th best Pokémon overalls? I think these two have unique traits Psychic/Ice and Psychic/ Electric resistance in addition to checking Mew, Tauros , Snorlax or anything in Exeggutor case make them mandatory
@@wannabecinnabonMewtwo Mew Chansey and Snorlax are all at the very least going to be required to use in a Gen 1 Ubers Metagame because they bring so much to use The last two is really up to you but I generally like Exeggutor + Slowbro because of their unique traits to deal with a certain Mewtwo set in addition to checking other Threats like Mew Snorlax Tauros , Gengar etc Tauros and Exeggutor are also excellent for immediate offensive pressure
@@abarette_ even gen 2-8 freeze is more broken than M ray and Zacian in the same way that moody was banned before Zacian. But if we want to get super technical rg blizzard with its 33% freeze chance is the most powerful attack in all of pokemon, be like combining draco meteor with fissue.
This was interesting, but didn't really have a central argument against "Gen 1 Mewtwo is the strongest Pokemon of all time". Listing off potential situation it loses isn't enough without also saying how Mega Rayquaza/Zacian have less difficulty or are more dominant.
I wouldn’t call it the strongest but it is a really Strong Pokémon in its own right A core of Light Screen Chansey, Exeggutor, and Slowbro alone will not let Mewtwo sweep that easily a team because it’s likely to miss coverage for one of those Pokémon Then there’s the fact that it’s not bypassing Mewtwo and Light Screen chansey that easily no matter what it runs because they require a few hits to take down. And there’s also the fact that even after fully boosted Snorlax and Mew can live ANY hit from Mewtwo at least one and it either risk getting paralyzed or blow up which are all dealy for it That said the strongest Mewtwo set is Boltbeam or Blizzbolt. This set as the strongest potential of all . easily slices thru Slowbro and Exeggutor after setup , 2OHKOs Mew and Snorlax and can freeze the other Mewtwo or Chansey If Mewtwo gets a freeze then freeze clause takes effect and it can no longer beat Light Screen Chansey broken ? I guess it depends Very strong option? Yes indeed
A newbie with 6 Zacian will lose to Tempt6 with a team of 2 low-tiers and any of a dozen silly rare strategies. No strategy (during battle or at the team-building stage) punishes using "too many Mewtwo" (as there is no such thing) in gen 1. If you play gen 8 vs a friend with in-game cartridge rules and know in advance that he will use a team of 6 Zacian, you can counter it fairly easily. If instead it's gen 1 and you hear he will use 6 Mewtwo (pre-poisoned to be immune to other status), you just go "of course he will, it's the best team" and then proceed to do the same yourself or be at a big disadvantage.
Honestly the most Dangerous Mewtwo set to face is it’s Boltbeam or Blizzbolt set because that set can rip apart Exeggutor and Slowbro easily and still possibly freeze the other Mewtwo or Chansey Snorlax and Mew can all live at least 1 hit from it at full health and retaliate back One thing that needs to be mention that it’s important to know that Mewtwo isn’t the only Pokémon to worry about. You need to take into consideration Mew , Snorlax , Exeggutor Slowbro, Gengar, Zapdos, Rhydon and Tauros For this reason I always think Exeggutor and Slowbro should be the 5th and 6th most mandatory Pokémon in Ubers
Hello freezai, great video! However, I feel like you left out the biggest counter to Mewtwo that exists: the X button. This is a little known strategy, but one that works quite well. In the corner of the little tab that indicates your battle, there will be a X button that you can click. Clicking it will make a new Forfeit button appear. By clicking this forfeit button the battle will be over, and Mewtwo will not have taken a single kill. (Jokes aside this is a great idea for a video. So many people nowadays think rby ubers is just hoping for your Mewtwo to beat the other Mewtwo without any more strategy. I would love if you did more videos that follow this style; particular, one that delves into the topic of how one can beat stall. Seriously tired of everyone calling the, at best, mid playstyle, "broken".
Only Pokémon qualified to take on Gen 1 Mewtwo head on in Gen 1 Opposing Mewtwo transform / sd Mew Slowbro Exeggutor Light screen chansey Snorlax Amensia Hypno That’s it lol
In AG, all Zacian or all Mega Rayquaza sets aren't viable. If Gen 1 Ubers did not have species clause, then all Mewtwo teams would be the only viable team.
ok but the fact you can run all the Mewtwo sets at the same time and you Will not know It until you see it makes Mewtwo very broken not as much as Zacian and Mega Ray, those Two can kill themselves no cap in most brokeness
Uh, no not really, its not OHKOing much from full so you can scout out its set without losing a poke most of the time. You only really need Chansey and Mewtwo to handle the opposing Mewtwo defensively, other mons are definitely nice for handling it defensively, but you only really need those two.
In case other people were wondering: Mewtwo *can* learn substitute in gen 1, but it doesn't block status attacks like t-wave or sing so it's not useful
@@dannyorrmedia With the Stadium rules of "Bring 6, use 3", you can get away with just Psychic, for full 6-on-6 it would probably be ideal to give up a Recover or Amnesia for a second attack, or save Mewtwo for later in the match, as otherwise you could very well run out of attacking PP with just Psychic.
@@OmegaTyrantdon’t use Psychic as a Mono-attacking option. It’s asking for Trouble if the other Opponent has a Mewtwo , Mew, Slowbro or Exeggutor Thunderbolt is a better option as Rhydon isn’t common in Ubers and T-bolt will eventually wear down Exeggutor
It’s not really that good though. You are scarficing another coverage Move and risk getting PP stall a lot easier. You are giving up basically the ability to beat some Bulky Psychic or Fat Normal type on the other side ….
It's not 4MSS when having just 4 moveslots to choose out of several only lets you beat 70-80% of the meta instead of 100%, because by that logic EVERYTHING has 4MSS. 4MSS is primarily reserved for Pokemon that need more than 4 moveslots to even function in their primary role; these Pokemon are few and far between, but to give you an idea, Regigigas is by far the biggest offender of 4MSS
@@breloommaster12 Moveslot syndrome is when a pokemon has more moves that it wants then moveslots. Mewtwo has to choose getting walled by certain pokemon specifically because he doesnt have enough moveslots. Thus, four move slot syndrome.
@@sansthedog yes, so by your logic literally everything in the game has 4 moveslot syndrome, but that is not how that term came into existence, and Mewtwo is the one of the LAST things to suffer from it. Like oh boohoo, having only 4 moves only lets the Pokémon destroy 70-80% of the meta instead of being a truly unstoppable monster; that's not 4MSS, that's being entitled lol.
Blizzbolt or Boltbeam Mewtwo would cover everything it really needs to though and slice apart 98 percent of the metagame especially Slowbro and Exeggutor in addition to fishing for a freeze on the Light Screen Chansey or Opposing Mewtwo If you run Blizzard then you score a lot of 2OHKOs on Snorlax Mew, and instantly OHKO Exeggutor after an Amensia boost It doesn’t really need another move honestly. Psychic and Submission are not hitting anything else notable that you aren’t already hitting with Blizzbolt expect Light Screen Chansey Just my opinion . Blizzbolt or Boltbeam is more than enough to threaten everything in the game besides Opposing Mewtwo and Light Screen Chansey and even they both fear a freeze
"Why Gen 1 Mewtwo isn't as broken as you think" used to be the title of the video before Freezai changed it. Hence why some comments refer to the 'most broken mon of all time' debacle
Because he got proved wrong *with his own words.* Indeed Mewtwo IS BROKEN, specially due to context, but you as a player can play around and with it. It's the same principle as with gen 2 OU and Chess with the queen. Still despise those metagames due to how restrictive teambuilding is, but that's maybe a matter of taste, of me wanting to not copypaste teams.
@@N12015 How old gen players use the word "Broken" is if something has hardly any answers which you can reasonably fit on your team, which Mewtwo does not satisfy, hence under that description, calling Mewtwo not broken is apt. As an aside, Gen 1 Ubers is an incredibly diverse metagame, with tons of variety in teams and movesets (Aerodactyl and Golbat are viable and have niches ffs), its the furthest thing from a metagame where every team is copied and pasted.
@@shellnut8224 Sir, you won't convince anyone with those twitter tantrums; you'll just ruin the image of this channel. Even Smogon itself admits how meta warping Mewtwo is compared to ANY other tier, and I can't call the meta diverse due to requiring 4 slots of your team to Mewtwo in some capacity, much like I can't call gen 1 OU diverse either.
Remember, just like how Snorlax and Gen 2 has ways for peeps to beat it aside from their own Snorlax, Mons like Mewtwo, Mega Ray Cray Cray, Zacian and Gen 4 Arceus still have ways to get slapped up. Mewtwo just so happens to be the most broken to this day, because the entire meta game working together to beat you is pretty impressive.
I mean, i get it, but that's basically saying mewtwo isn't unbeatable because you can make a team tailored to counter it. That's not really a good argument for him not being the strongest of all time. Zacian-C or MegaRay also can be statused, they also have counters, they can't deal with an entire team build around countering them. BUT, they don't warp the format like mewtwo in Gen 1 Ubers, most people wouldn't run a team with 6 Mega Ray (if it was posssible) or a 6 Zacian-C, but i can guarantee in Gen1 Ubers EVERYONE would use a full Mewtwo team.
I don’t think that’s the point of Gen 1 Ubers. in addition to Mewtwo and Mew you also have to beat the opponents Snorlax , chansey , Exeggutor or whatever other Pokémon they decide to use This is why Mewtwo Mew Chansey and Snorlax make up the large majority of Gen 1 Uber teams Other very good but not mandatory Pokémon that are good include Exeggutor, Slowbro, Tauros, Rhydon, Gengar, Zapdos
After Mewtwo and Mew The 4 most mandatory Pokémon on most teams should be Chansey, Snorlax, Slowbro, and Exeggutor. These 4 create a strong impact in the Ubers Metagame and have the best chance of beating down Mewtwo and Mew in addition to other threats
RBY Uber meta is extremely centeralizing around getting ahead with your own mewtwo. No one else had that impact in the meta game ever and never will be another one in the future. As we have a lot more option now and GF is better with balancing compare to gen1.
Surely why would you not? You also need a play to care for other threats like Mew Snorlax Chansey bro and egg and sometimes Zapdos Gengar Tauros and rhydon
Finally... someone who doesn't just bullshit people and simply satisfying people's confirmation bias. Similarly, tauros is strong but not noticeably stronger than say snorlax in gen 1.
Snorlax was gen 2 goat, while tauros is gen 1 goat, the entire gen 1 competitive is around tauros and the best win condition for a player was just keep tauros safe from status. At least both Zacian-Crowned and mray have counter and check, but gosh, tauros was literally unstoppable lmao
@@alibaba-yi1lo "Snorlax was gen 2 goat, while tauros is gen 1 goat" This is exactly the bias. Just because snorlax was the gen 2 goat, it doesn't mean that it is significantly "weaker" than tauros in gen 1. If you just look at tornament statistics, teams without snorlax have a bit lower winrate than teams without tauros (although more than 90% of the teams have both), so in that sense snorlax is argubly more important... but I'm not even claiming that. I simply saying tauros is not considerably more important than mons like snorlax in rby. "At least both Zacian-Crowned and mray have counter and check, but gosh, tauros was literally unstoppable lmao" dude... snorlax is literally a check for tauros. exeggutor, lax, closyter, slowbro, starmie are all checks to tauros.
Not overpowered it’s a really strong Pokémon though Mewtwo with Blizzard/Ice Beam and Thunderbolt will beat down 98 percent of the metagame without much hassle and the other 2 Percent ( Light Screen Chansey and Opposing Mewtwo ) can suffer from a Freeze or too many Crits It will still have to play around its check carefully especially after it’s paralyzed as Snorlax, Mew, and Rhydon are more threatening to Mewtwo when it’s paralyzed
U need to play the game then to understand it then . Getting a freeze on Mewtwo isn’t even close to winning the game although it’s a huge victory. You can paralyze and it will now be more instantly afraid of Snorlax Mew rhydon and Tauros It’s not like it even runs barrier half the time
Well explained, Freezai. If you're ever doing more gen 1 content and want a collaborative effort, let me know. I'm a pretty active member of the gen 1 scene on smogon (especially in the random battles) and would love to become more of a youtube creator of this type of content
Ngl the thing is mewto can easily counter every single one of its checks by just having a move So it literally has 4 move syndrome Like all mewto needs is 1 good rng turn and your entire team is just gone
Only 2 mons are needed to handle it defensively, those being Chansey and Mewtwo, both of which you would be running anyways, and probably physical attackers like Mew and Snorlax which are top mons in their own right and ones you would use regardless of it Mewtwo existed or not.
@@shellnut8224Slowbro and Exeggutor are maybe the most highly recommanded 5th and 6th Pokémon for RBY Ubers Resist Psychic and T-Bolt/Ice Beam respectively is huge in addition to good typing bulk and ability to strike back hard
Get Slowbro in Gen2, teach him Hypnosis and Dream Eater via TM and then trade him to Gen1, and teach him Substitute and Blizzard via TM. Mewtwo will be torn to pieces.
You don't have to, nowadays a lot of players are dropping Light Screen because of how passive it is, instead running Sing, Thunder Wave, and Seismic Toss, to force recovers on a para'd mewtwo and sending snorlax/mew in during the turn it heals.
@@shellnut8224I don’t know . I would hate to be weak to Blizzbolt/ Boltbeam Mewtwo without Light Screen Chansey and a 6+ Slowbro You can say goodbye to Chansey a lot quicker that way
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo. As an aside, a mon being mandatory doesn't make it broken. Gen 1 OU has 3 mandatory mons, Snorlax, Tauros, and Chansey, and all of them are fantastic mons, but none of them are really broken (Tauros is not even close to broken, its really good but not broken, unlike FSG would have you believe) This comment just shows how little you understand the RBY Ubers metagame, and that you should play a format before you comment on its balance.
Mewtwo Gen 1 Ubers = Snorlax Gen 2 OU = Mega Rayquaza Gen 6 AG At least, that's my interpretation. They are all so obscenely broken that it loops back around to being counterable because literally everyone is playing it and around it.
Speaking as a prominent gen 1 player myself, being the person in charge of the UU viability rankings for RBY and playing a large role in the development of NU and PU, FSG is a terrible source for Gen 1 competitive, with their videos on gen 1 almost always being either inaccurate or misleading. Their content is accurate after ADV, but GSC and especially RBY, are a step down in quality from the other generations.
turns out that if you have a whole metagame tailored to beat you you'll end up having some flaws
The mons that check him are all meta anyway, unlike with Zacian where Uber teams are forced to run a freaking Arcanine or something.
@@TheFuriator Quagsire is a better one then Arcanine because Quagsire is Unaware about Zacian-C's Swords Dance.
yeah and quagsire is even worse than arcanine
@@TheFuriator only exeggutor is the pure meta pick. chansey has to run light screen to not get overwhelmed and slowbro is otherwise good but not that great (it dropped to uubl in rby just recently and is only b- ranked on the ou vr). plus zacian-c had fellow uber necrozma dusk mane to check it
@@superinhow2048 that’s not true. Quaggy has some purpose in checking random threats in most tiers. Arcanine doesn’t do anything outside it’s own tier.
I feel like a big reason why mewtwo is easier to stop than say, mega ray or zacian, is the lack of opportunity cost in gen 1 ubers.
Since mewtwo utterly destroys anything that isn't specifically brought to defeat it, you can build your team around having a mewtwo, mewtwo counters, and counters to mewtwo counters (which mewtwo will most likely destroy).
Heck, a pokemon's place in the RBY Ubers rankings is almost solely determined by :
- can it annoy mewtwo ?
- can it beat mewtwo ?
- can it lure / beat mewtwo counters ?
Pokemon like Starmie or Alakazam violently drop because they're mostly outclassed by mewtwo and don't really like the fact that the teams focus on beating fast special attacking psychic types. Rhydon is much worse as well, because Tauros isn't as important to stop, and cloyster isn't even a thing because it doesn't do anything against mewtwo, or mewtwo counters.
On the other hand, slowbro is super good because it can boost alongside mewtwo and (likely) beats non-tbolt sets, when the same slowbro is kinda eh in regular RBY OU (still has a niche, but eh).
This is completely unimaginable in gens 6 or 8 with zacian or ray. You can't just bring pokemon based on how well they do against ray / zacian because you also have to take the rest of the ubers tier into account, featuring primal groudon, primal kyogre, xerneas, M-gengar, dew lati@s and ekiller in ray's case and calyrex-S, eternatus, necrozma-DM, marshadow, Kyogre or Xerneas in zacian's case.
You can't just slap quagsire+tangrowth on your team because of the opportunity cost of not using other uber pokemon.
This phenomenon doesn't exist (or is at least much less impactful) in RBY ubers, ironically making mewtwo less of an unstoppable monster.
It's kinda funny how the main argument against mewtwo being as broken as zacian and mega ray is that no one else is good enough to threathen the opponent alongside mewtwo.
It speaks of how broken Mewtwo is though, since it is so far above the rest that it completely shapes the meta game. Mega-Ray and Zacian aren’t as broken, as Mewtwo was, in their respective generations since they aren’t shaping the meta around them
@@ericemanuelsson7416 In some sense, yes.
You could say that mewtwo is so unbelievably broken that it has come full circle.
@@ericemanuelsson7416 naw I see it as, mega ray and zacian are so unbelievably broken that it even looks broken COMPARED to the broken shit around it. Like mray and zacian are broken in comparison to things like eternatus yveltal xerneas primal gdon calyrex etc. Do you realize how insane that is? Yes mewtwo was metagame defining but thats by virtue of it being the only really broken thing to exist.
@@tast3ofk0lea that point kind of falls flat since the same thing could be said for Mewtwo, “Oh my god, Mewtwo is so broken even in a meta game with broken Pokémon like Taurus, Snorlax and Alakazam”.
All three of the Pokémon are broken despite the competition, and within that Mewtwo is the only one to center and shape the meta game around it
The thing with zacian and mray is that they were overpowered, and centralised the format, but you never needed to give up more than a couple team slots to handle them. The problem was, that giving up said slots allowed other broken Pokemon to capatilise.
In gen 1, you are allowed to just run 5 Mewtwo counters. The metagame is unquestionably centralised, and built to counter one specific threat.
There's also the fact that mray and zacian, even when allowed in ubers never had 100% usage. In fact, in the viability rankings for gen 6 ag, mray is actually behind both primal groudon and Arceus. In contrast, running a gen 1 team without Mewtwo is absolutely idiotic. Running a gen 1 ubers team without Mewtwo, and at 2-3 Mewtwo "counters" is absolutely idiotic. Thats how much it centralized the metagame.
In ag, there's no dupe clause, so you can run copies of Pokemon. While mray is restricted by its mechanics, there's nothing stopping you from running 6 zacian. Despite this, it's not really viable. Thus, we can see that zacian might be the best current Pokemon, but it's not so good that it's pointless running other things.
On the other hand, if you were to turn off dupe clause in rby ubers, pretty much the only thing that you would see would be teams of 6 Mewtwo.
Thus, I'd probably say that it's the other way around. Mewtwo is more busted than these particular threats, and they're overrated.
They also lose to status. They also have counters. They also don't counter their entire metagame. The thing they have over Mewtwo is that they have the benefit of a metagame that's not solely centralised on countering them in any way possible.
Facts
when the main argument for why mewtwo isn't as broken as mega-ray and zacian is the fact that no one else is good enough to capitalize on the opponents needing to build their team around enemy mewtwo really just speaks volumes about how broken mewtwo actually is.
More like 3-4 mewtwo a mew with sword dance and a normal imo
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
This comment just shows how little you understand the RBY Ubers metagame, and that you should play a format before you comment on its balance.
@@shellnut8224 Snorelax, mew, and eggy are good partially because of their ability to somewhat check M2. Literally the only one of these with no game against M2 is rhydon, and rhydon is easily the worst of the 4 you named.
In fact, M2 + 5 M2 "counters" that I was referring to is mew, snore, Chan, eggy, slow.
Even after watching this I still think gen 1 Mewtwo is the most powerful thing to ever exist in competitive. The one thing that stops the format being unplayable is that there's only 2 actual uber mons, so you can afford to dedicate half your teamslots to checking Mewtwo. Imagine if you had to fight Mewtwo every game but also prepare for other Uber-tier threats, you'd be stretched way too thin.
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
If there were other Uber tier threats they would also need to be powerful enough to be a threat and unique enough to be better than Mewtwo.
M. Ray can do something Mewtwo can't, sweep and destroy things that used to be the strongest in the format.
There just wasn't anything that was as consistent vs M. Ray as there was for Mewtwo.
The amount of support moves in later generations also just helps prop up already strong pokemon, imagine if heal bell or hazards existed gen 1
You shouldn't use hypotheticals like that. We are considering who was most op in their respective generation. If gen 1 had less ubers, then take that into account. That would be like saying for mega ray "imagine if fairy didn't exist like in gen 1 and it could spam outrage". That's not how it was so no need to consider it.
@@bfc9467 I don't think that analogy works well, because Fairy was deliberately introduced as a check to dragon types. Mewtwo's situation in gen1 on the other hand was an accident - competitive play wasn't a thing back then and Mewtwo was overpowered on purpose. So what I'm saying is that it was basically luck that Mewtwo turned out to not be entirely game-ruining.
If any modern format was dominated to the degree that Mewtwo dominated gen 1, it would be banned to AG so fast. But gen 1 ubers only has 2 pokemon in it - there would be no point having a tier above that even though there's clearly a full tier's worth of power level difference between him and Mew. It's unapologetically Mewtwo's own personal tier. That's why he doesn't feel oppressive in the same way that Zacian/M-Ray did. Not because he's weaker, but because there was never any expectation that gen 1 ubers would be anything else.
@@dm9910 Yep. The same thing would happen to Mega Ray if it was introduced to Gen 7 OU. Everyone would spam Mimikyu, Ditto, Sash Counter Magic Guard Clefable to stop Mega Ray. All of the top tier Ubers Pokémon are ironically easier to handle in OU if they were just introduced to OU for some reason. It’s just that it would be over centralizing which Ubers doesn’t really care but OU won’t allow.
So it's weaknesses are ''can't do literally everything at once.'', ''not immune to status/to valuable to get statused.'' and ''it's so good that the entire metagame revolves around beating it.''? Umm I think this video only confirmed just how broken mewtwo is.
edit: Note that most of the arguments im seeing in other comments here basically come down to the fact that zacian and mega ray are more broken because there are other terrifying pokemon that can take advantage of the opponents team always including counters to zacian or mega ray. But i'd argue ''no one is anywhere near as powerful as mewtwo in gen 1.'' doesn't really make mewtwo seem any less broken.
and i think this comment only confirmed how little the average person knows about competitive
Sums up my thoughts pretty well. Judging by this comment section, people must’ve thought he was just an auto-win button?
Indeed, this video feels like an out of season april fools joke. Gen 1 Mewtwo is just broken, and again, it would still be the best mon in gen 2 if it had gen 1 amnesia or even calm mind, despite all the nerfs it got. There's still competitive potential, BUT you can't even pretend it's not obsenely broken, just like you can't pretend gen 2 Snorlax, M-Rayquaza or Zacian Crowned aren't busted, even when it makes the meta "healthier".
@@N12015 disagree on snorlax, but otherwise yeah
@@seanscott2677 Gen 2 snorlax, a regular single evolution mon, is considered in modern competitive to be BETTER than Mew and Mewtwo, the 2 best legendaries, probably due to lovely kiss stuff. That's the definition of busted.
I mean yeah mewtwo isn't unbeatable but it's basically mandatory to use a mewtwo in order to push in the gen 1 uber ladder. The fact that an opposing mewtwo itself is one of the best ways to counter mewtwo says a lot. No it can't counter everything because of the 4 move slot syndrome but you have 5 other slots on your team that you can fill with pokemon that can compensate for what your given mewtwo set can't deal with. Also the opportunity for mind games is there since your opponent doesn't know what mewtwo is running until you use all of its moves.
To be fair 2-3 slots are used to check enemy mewtwo so your mewtwo can come out ahead and the last slots are check/counter to the mewtwo checks so your mewtwo stay healthy lol
@@wizard5552 thats not really the case, you only need chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
It’s not hard to scout out Mewtwo though
Usually Chansey and your Own Mewtwo can take a few hits as to not risk losing a Pokémon right away
This video really contextualized why gen 1 needs a freeze clause. In your previous video I had no idea to what extent high level play still comes down to two opponents fishing for a freeze
If you wanted to think of high tiered gen 1 mons, think of chess pieces and consider Mewtwo a queen.
Usually, because both teams will have one, the game becomes all about how you position your other pieces to deal with the queen.
Apply same logic for OU of gen 1 and 2, but replacing Mewtwo with Tauros and Snorlax. Definitely not my cup of tea considering it allows next to no creativity on teambuilding.
Mewtwo is absolutely not a queen sandwichtwo the “mewtwo” from the horrible Pokémon movie 16 is absolutely not a queen and that’s the only female one.
@@N12015
I agree, Chess sucks and has no room for creativity.
So Transform Mew is like promoting a pawn?
@@marakrofitcac3425 Except thats not really the case,
RBY Ubers is an incredibly diverse tier, with many viable Pokemon, movesets, and strategies, and many important threats to play around asides Mewtwo, such as Mew, Snorlax, Tauros, Slowbro, Zapdos, Exeggutor, Chansey, and so on. Mewtwo doesn't solely determine the viability of mons, and Pokemon which are setup food for Mewtwo are completely viable Pokemon to use in the tier. For example, Aerodactyl is a good Pokemon (B tier threat) which has seen success in tournament play as a hard wall to Snorlax and Mew's most common sets, both of whom are nigh-mandatory picks on teams, and is complete garbage against Mewtwo. Yet even despite being terrible against Mewtwo, people run it because of how well it handles other top threats in the metagame.
This is a good video and, ironically, a very good argument as to why Gen 1 Mewtwo is more broken than Mega Ray and Zacian.
Mewtwo forces the entire meta game to revolve around it, where Pokemon viability is determined by if it helps in the battle against Mewtwo in some way.
Gen 1 Ubers sole reason to exist is to use Mewtwo and it's basically is the original Anything Goes. If Mega Rayquaza and Zacian where the only Pokemons in their respective Gens, then a lot of counters would've been found. But since there are other Pokemon besides Mega Ray and Zacian, they were banned to AG.
Mewtwo, while centralizing, doesn't dictate the entire metagame of Ubers. There are plenty of fantastic Pokemon in Ubers, such as Snorlax, Chansey, and Mew, which also heavily influence the viability of other Pokemon, with Pokemon which are complete garbage against Mewtwo, such as Aerodactyl and Golbat, having niches in Ubers because of how they handle other top metagame threats, namely Mew and Snorlax.
Disagree 100% the entire video is explaining how Mewtwo isn't as overpowered as people think...
As another commentor said, another thing that helps deal with Mewtwo is that there were no other pokemon that you were forced to deal with. You could build your entire team around controlling Mewtwo and your good
There were too many other threats in later games. Ya cant just build a team to beat Ray or Zacian cause you'd get smoked by the other competition as your team would be very inflexible
Hence why they were both Banned from Ubers. Something Mewtwo cant say
@@shellnut8224after Snorlax, Chansey and Mew I feel like the 5th and 6th best Pokémon in Gen 1 Ubers have to be Slowbro and Exeggutor
They both have unique traits that no other Pokémon like Zapdos, Tauros, Gengar and Rhydon’s can’t replicate. They don’t get sweep by Mewtwo and Mew that easily and can strike back hard
@@jdrmanmusiqkingusually the triangle of Light screen chansey + Slowbro + Exeggutor is more than enough to keep the other Mewtwo from sweeping your team and these Pokémon are already fantastic with dealing with other Pokémon as well
@@bryanc1772 exactly. Mewtwo was objectively easier to handle than Zacian and Mega Ray
No pokemon is uncounterable not zacian crowned, not mega-rayquaza, and not gen 4 arceus but at the same time the fact that one of the main strategies to beat mewtwo is to freeze it says a lot about its competition for best competitive pokemon of all time every other mon on the list has weaknesses sure arceus only had one and it was by no means a great type at the time but mewtwo’s only weakness was bug a type with a maximum of a 50bp move and said moves were either
A.on beedrill (garbage)
B. Not always 50 bp
Ehhhh... Mega Ray was pretty uncounterable. There were pretty much zero mons that could beat it consistently. Even the ones that did were usually very gimmicky, a good player could always spot the gimmick and either mitigate it or play around it.
Wobbuffet.
@@RyanYeehaw didn’t exist
@@Slaking_ only thing I can think of are like very defensive arceus fairy or ice builds. Fairy arceus isnt too uncommon but yeh megaray is busted.
By no means a great type at the time? What planet are you from? Gen 1 psychic is stupidly broken and also I believe you contracted yourself but saying it's only weakness was a single move.
I remember in the "Vs Mewtwo" Match in Pokemon Stadium I just cheesed it by paralyzing Mewtwo and then Wrapping it to death with Dragonite lol. Obviously that wouldn't work against a human player because you can switch out of Wrap in Gen 1, but it was still funny to beat Mewtwo like that
Gen 1 Mewtwo may not be completely broken, but it absolutely defines the highest tier and the need to play around it.
Doesn't that same argument work for Mega Ray requiring the creation of AG?
@@justarandomdood I would say no.
@@rubbegameing5370 Interesting
@@rubbegameing5370 Small thing, you CAN’T play around Mega Rayquaza or Zacian Crowned. They made their own tiers two. Anything goes, in which only Zacian Crowned and Mega Rayquaza stand.
@@amotoz As a nat dex ag player, I feel this.
Tldr: Mewtwo is broken as hell but if you think you can set up a turn 1 sweep and immediately win with it, you will lose.
So, just like Mega Ray and Zacian then.
So many people on this comments section underestimate Swords Dance Mew, Exeggutor, Tobybro, Light Screen Chansey and Self destruct Snorlax as decent Mewtwo checks
@@bryanc1772 Smogon defines a check as something that can beat the pokemon with a free switch in. Mewtwo's single best counter except for itself is mew or Chansey. And even then, Mewtwo still checks Chansey. While you are right these mons can decently check amnesia metwo. What does Chansey do against physical metwo? What does Exeggutor do against a Mewtwo behind a reflect? answer is nothing. They lose. The best way to think about it if you want to counter Mewtwo the best option is Mewtwo. If you think you can counter it with anything else. Mewtwo would be a better counter.
@@burlyhalfling I think that Mewtwo suffering of 4MSS and having two very mandated Moves ( Amensia and Recover ) limits it a lot and it’s always going to fall short of something
Blizzard and Thunderbolt are the best moves to run on Mewtwo to quickly dispatch Slowbro and Exeggutor who you absolutely do not want to give breathing room and a chance to freeze Light Screen Chansey and Mewtwo but you won’t be breaking thru these two easily with that moveset
Exeggutor can put Mewtwo to sleep or para if it doesn’t explode. Reflect and Barrier are not common on Mewtwo. It can be run but you are sacrificing a coverage move and get walled more easily by another Psychic type or Normal type
Psychic and Submission can be run for Light Screen Chansey and Amensia Snorlax but you are not hitting anything else hard that you would already with Thunderbolt and Blizzard/Ice Beam
In short, nothing fully counters Mewtwo in general but Mewtwo can’t deal with everything at once either
LMAO I remember someone making a poll, either you or another poketuber about which Mon was the strongest:
Mewtwo in Gen 1
Mega Ray in Gen 6
Zacian in Gen 8
And EVERYONE in the comments was talking about Mewtwo in Gen 1. This'll be interesting as all hell
Edit: it was you from 5 days ago, I'm so hyped to watch this video now xD
Still tough, if you put the same effort into playing around Mega Ray, it doesn't look that op either. Paralysis, stealth rocks, ditto ...
And Zacian is walled by Quagsire.
op and bad for the game =/= unbeatable
Mega Ray > Zacian > Gen 1 Mewtwo
@@richardhauer8391 but the main difference is mewtwo's "checks" are all meta pokemon that you would use even if mewtwo wasn't on the opponent's team. with someone like zacian for example, you have to bring a quagsire into ubers which isn't ideal if you're dedicating an entire slot just for one pokemon and nothing else.
mewtwo is still really op though and its unpredictability is what makes it so op in the first place.
@@inclinebench nice bait
Yeah I saw it too I voted mega rayray
Let's be real, the true most broken Pokemon is Gen 1 Sleep and Freeze
Freezai saying first looks can be deceiving about a pokemon that’s been around since 1998 is just so unapologetically awesome lol
I don't get your argument. The whole meta is centered around mewtwo and you need multiple pokemon to just keep it in check. And you also have to keep your own mewtwo out of ice beams to avoid losing it alltogether. Sounds pretty busted if you ask me
Yeah, but when youtubers talk about gen 1 Mewtwo, they talk as if Mewtwo were some sort of unbeatable force that only another Mewtwo could counter it, but it's just not the case. It's busted, yeah, and it requires you to adjust the moves of multiple Pokémon so it doesn't sweep you, but it's not THAT busted. There are ways to counter it that don't rely on another Mewtwo.
Yeah but Gen 1 Mewtwo is basically Brawl Meta Knight in that the viability of every other Pokémon in existence are solely defined by how well/badly they handle Mewtwo
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
@@breloommaster12 Uh yeah, no not even close, their viability is also heavily determined by how they handle Mew, Snorlax, Chansey, Tauros, Exeggutor, and the litany of other important threats in the metagame.
@@shellnut8224 While I'm not discrediting the presence of other threats aside from Mewtwo, the ability to at least deal with Mewtwo in some way is absolutely paramount compared to anything else in the meta that makes a mon worth using at all or not. Of the mons you listed, only Rhydon doesn't fit this bill, and that is solely because it is the 'anti-meta' Pokémon that absorbs Thunder Waves, Hyper Beams, and Selfdestructs/Explosions that are used to punish Mewtwos. One of the most shining examples of this is Slowbro, who is typically overlooked as a Psychic-type option in favour of Starmie and Alakazam, suddenly skyrocketing in viability to take on Mewtwo while the faster Psychics are left in the dust.
Kind of an interesting way to think about pokemon. You know 2 of your pokemon are going to be completely invalidated by freeze and sleep, so you bring a team of 6 and have to win with a team of 4. That's kinda cool
Keep up the hard work freez! Love the content lately
Generation 1 and 2 also have a cap limit on stat boosting moves. I knew this to be the case in Gen 2, where Marowak and Scizor can't use Swords Dance multiple times without rolling over the cap.
But I was wondering why Mewtwo vs Mewtwo is so insanely stall, and it's because you can barely boost past +3 without hitting the cap. Im assuming the damage calculator factors this in and stops at 999 instead of rolling over.
Edit: rephrased, way i wrote it initially was dumb and didn't make sense.
I'm pretty sure Gen 1 on cartridge could roll-over. The modern system shown in the video probably prevents that.
The reason why Mewtwo dittos are so absurdly stally is because Special is just one stat, and the only physical attack Mewtwo commonly runs is a relatively weak and inaccurate Fighting type attack. Since Mewtwo love to spam Amnesia, this boosts both their attack and defense against each other, not really resulting in any net difference. Unless one of them has set up while the other hasn't, they're dealing ~14% to each other with each attack, while both of them almost certainly knows Recover. Since KOing through normal damage is unfeasible, usually they are either spamming Ice Beam and fishing for the freeze to effectively remove the opposing Mewtwo, or spamming Psychic to go for the special drop to force a +4 Mewtwo to overflow.
Funnily enough, often times Mewtwo in Gen 1 will run what is known as the "Safetwo" stat spread to prevent its Special stat from rolling over at +4 which is basically just lowering its DVs and maybe EVs (I forget).
@@CAFFIENEHOUND Gen 1 had protection against rollover, it just...wasn't perfect. But +3 Mewtwo is capped just fine at 999, as is +4 Mewtwo. What causes the system to break is if the most recent change in stats was caused by something being *decreased* instead of increased, since they forgot to have the game check if it should cap stats after calculating the new value.
Here's a video explaining how it works in wayyyy more detail than I ever could. th-cam.com/video/y2AOm7r39Jg/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Crystal_
Ooh thank you, I wasn't aware that's how that worked
>mewtwo isn't as strong as you think
>because the other mewtwo can clear it out after it takes a status effect
I mean, you're not wrong...
(Love the meta analysis btw, these thought videos are great)
Or your own snorlax or exeggutor or rhydon or mew or tauros or cloyster or zapdos, need I go on?
@@shellnut8224 yes please
I’m just thinking back to when me and my friends had the link cable playing against each other. We had absolutely no idea wtf we were doing. Just having fun using our favorite Pokémon. Of course we brought the over leveled starter. The good ole days. You youngster joeys don’t know about those days 👴
It’s just a Mewtwo war, sounds like the most broken Pokemon considering he’s top priority
This couldn't be further from the truth. RBY Ubers is an incredibly diverse metagame, with many sets and viable strategies (Aerodactyl is viable ffs, and its trash vs Mewtwo), and is far more than just a Mewtwo war.
@@shellnut8224 the meta revolves around Mewtwo
so realistically it depends on what moves your opponent’s mewtwo is running to decide if half your team is capable of taking it down
Moreso its set determines if 1 of your pokemon is a hard wall to it or not, but you still check it with Chansey and your own Mewtwo (and Mew and Snorlax).
@@shellnut8224 and Exeggutor and Slowbro
"How to kill a Mewtwo? With another Mewtwo!"
Or any of Chansey, Snorlax, Rhydon, Tauros, Exeggutor, Zapdos, Mew, among the litany of Pokemon that can take out Mewtwo.
this video only cemented my opinion on mewtwo being the most overpowered pokemon of all time, good job freezai
Mewtwo was certainly powerful and abused nearly every aspect of Gen 1 to the fullest, but its dominance is also attributed to the lack of competition. Zacian and Mega Ray do deserve credit for being broken in metagames filled to the brim with incredibly dangerous threats.
@@breloommaster12 gen 1 also had incredibly dangerous threats though. mew, taurus, snorlax, chansey, exeggutor to name a few. these pokemon were EXTREMELY OPPRESSIVE in gen 1. zacian and mega rayquaza could be checked by very specific pokemon if you could predict their movesets, but mewtwo required several pokemon to check it, and sometimes that didn't even work. the only pokemon that could beat mewtwo was another mewtwo, meanwhile zacian C and mega rayquaza could be feasibly cleaned up or beaten by other top tier pokemon if you got a good predict.
@@eoeaoe12e when I say 'incredibly dangerous', I was referring to threats that could even hold a candle to Mewtwo's power level, and among those, only Mew could even come close to rivaling its presence. Modern Ubers is chock full of _actual Ubers-level_ monsters that teams still had to worry about in addition to the oppressive dominance of Zacian and MRay in their respective metas.
That said, I personally feel that Zacian isn't quite on the level of Mewtwo and MRay, since Zacian's relative lack of flexibility in both item choice and attacking spectrum (physical only) is notable when many other Ubers have access to a wider variety of options to prep for; Mewtwo didn't have to worry about having a wide movepool when it has literally all it needs out of a pool of ~6 moves to dominate the smaller scope of its meta, while MRay's sheer versatility is in a league of its own while also being the complete opposite situation of Zacian's limitations (mixed attacking capability and item freedom).
@@breloommaster12 and see, that's the thing. no one could match mewtwo's power level, because he was TOO STRONG. not because other pokemon were weak (tauros is weak by gen 8 standards, but keep in mind that tauros was the best pokemon in OU hands down in gen 1, and you were 100% required to run it in every team)
@@eoeaoe12e I mean sure, if you want to rate Mewtwo's dominance in terms of how it massively outperformed everything else that existed in its generation, Mewtwo certainly has a strong case of being the most broken Pokémon of all time.
Personally, I hold more respect for Pokémon that are a level above other numerous threats that are also OP in their own right. For example, Gen 2 Snorlax outperformed all of the actual Ubers of its generation. Considering the sheer amount of power creep that Ubers has undergone throughout the generations, the fact that Mega Ray and to a lesser extent Zacian are able to stay ahead of the curve despite that, is a testament to their power. It's like how Staraptor staying in UUBL all these generations is actually a strong display of Raptor managing to keep up above the increasingly powerful UU tiers for so long.
"You see, mewtwo isn't the strongest pokemon of all time because it is a pokemon"
the same can be said for mega rayquaza and zacian-crowned, though.
The meta is still centralized around it. As you'll want to build your team around taking the opposing Mewtwo down. Any lead will try to sleep or paralyze it, then use strong physical attacks with the hope of using an explosion or hyper beam to finish it off.
the broblem with gen1 is that there are too may broken things, para, sleep, and freeze are absolutely broken
self-destruct/explosion are broken, normal and psychic type are broken, special stat is broken. so it's not like a pokemon that can get at +6 sp.def and sp.atk with recover in 3 turn, with a broken type is not broken, is that it has to play around with the broken statuses and the absurd amount of psychic pokemon that are there to resist psychic attacks XD
Special Stat is not broken, the moves that increase it are. Amnesia is one of the best moves
A team of Light Screen Chansey + Slowbro + Exeggutor is usually more than enough to fend off a Mewtwo and scout it’s set or cripple it
This is a good video, but yeah I gotta echo some of the other sentiments I've seen. In the case of Ray and Zacian, they define a large part of the meta but also compete with so many other mechanics that have piled on, their spotlight is shared. RBY Mewtwo is THE meta.
In later gens, you've got a variety of checks and balances on your team for a number of different pokemon, and it's an intricate puzzle of dismantling the enemy team, but you don't really stack your team to deal with one specific pokemon.
Mewtwo defines the teams you build, your strategy going in, evert decision you make in the game. It has several counters, sure, but also you as an opponent have an opportunity to bring so many counters to one specific pokemon.
RBY Mewtwo centralizes the competitive game so heavily all on its own vs future gens where that task is accomplished with multiple pokemon.
Mega Ray and Zacian-C are insanely powerful, but I feel like the comparative meta impact of one RBY Mewtwo vs many Ubers legendaries in more modern formats is context that's somewhat being ignored here.
because unlike mega ray and zacian crowned, gen 1 mewtwo existed back when ditto was a useless sack of shit.
What are you talking about? A lot of what counters or checks Mewtwo are already good Pokémon in their own right
Snorlax can beat everything and anything and Aerodactyl doesn’t exist for shit except as a gimmick pick
Exeggutor can cripple or take down anything Pokémon it wants to with its standard set including Mewtwo and Mew especially those lacking Ice Beam
Chansey with Light Screen acts as a good support mon and wear down not just Mewtwo but also Tobybro . You can run sing and ice beam over those moves but generally I prefer light screen chansey with T wave and s toss to act as a good support mon. It’s always a realiable t waver
Slowbro not just checks non Thunderbolt Mewtwo but also is bulky enough to check mew Tauros and Snorlax and non light screen chansey. top tier threats
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Drinking game: take a shot whenever Freezai says 'Mewtwo'
I found you through PChal's video and you are amazing!
big suprise, mewtwo cant do everything at once and thus cannot win every battle, but that doesnt change anything. of course theres a lot of counterplay for mewtwo, but it sounds much simpler on paper than it is to actually pull off in practice. its like with zacian, its power level is so far above the rest that it doesnt matter whether you know its coming or not, youre gonna have a hard time regardless, not even considering mewtwos superior versatility. gen 1 mewtwo is broken and it cannot be overrated. "not being as broken as you think" is just flat out wrong unless you think mewtwo is undefeatable and invincible
Thats not true, if your mewtwo lost it simply mean enemy mewtwo won... because gl playing rby without mewtwo
The mainstream idea of Mewtwo is that its an unstoppable force which auto-wins as soon as it sets up, in practice it has many flaws and can be played around if you know what your doing, so I think saying its not as broken as you think is quite apt (I wrote that line).
Mewtwo is not breaking the LS Chansey + Slowbro + Exeggutor core anytime soon because it’s always going to be missing a coverage move for one of those Pokémon
Not to mention facing the Opposing Mewtwo as well
"Mewtwo is not as overpowered as you think it is"
Yeah sure, forcing the whole metagame around one Pokémon and making the whole strategy of your team about defeating the opponent's Mewtwo and saving your own dosen't make Mewtwo overpowered
Yep. Same thing will happen to Mega Ray and it actually did happen to Zacian early Sword and Shield if they were just introduced to OU.
Mewtwo isn’t the only Pokémon that needs to be taken into consideration. Other Pokémon like Mew, Snorlax, Exeggutor, Chansey, Slowbro Tauros, Zapdos , and rhydon need to be accounted 4
Personally after Mewtwo and Mew I prefer to just run Chansey Snorlax, Slowbro and Exeggutor since your chances of getting swept by Mewtwo is low in addition to checking other threats like Mew and Snorlax and Zapdos
Hey, so I'm the script writer for the video, and I've been seeing a lot of misconceptions about the points in the video and the RBY Ubers metagame in the comments, so I'm writing this comment to address thos. The content in the video was from my own experience playing ubers, and from reading discussions on the tier with other players such as Enigami, Ctown, and Peasounay, to name a few.
- Freezai is just being contrarian, FSG said its the most broken ever and I trust them more.
A lot of FSG's content for generation 1 is inaccurate, especially for non-OU tiers, and that top 5 video is a perfect example of that. Many gen 1 ubers players strongly felt that the video was incredibly misleading and that the writers for it had hardly played gen 1 Ubers at all, myself included, which is a large reason why I wrote this video, to explain why their video was wrong.
-Mewtwo is only fine because you run 5 counters to it along with your own Mewtwo.
This is completely false and shows a complete lack of knowledge on RBY Ubers. Most of the mons that are used to handle Mewtwo, such as Chansey, Slowbro, Mew, Exeggutor, and Snorlax, are good Pokemon in their own right that you would be using regardless of if Mewtwo was in the tier or not, the only thing it forces is for Chansey to run Light Screen on one set to burn through Mewtwo's limited attacking PP and let it have more chances to freeze, and even that is only one moveslots on one of its two main sets in Ubers, it's other set consists of Sing, Thunder Wave, Seismic Toss, and Soft Boiled, which is a normal set run in OU, albeit less common than the Ice Beam variant. While it does incentivize the use of aggressive Snorlax sets, those sets are completely viable to run in OU, and was the main set Snorlax ran for 15 years. What Mewtwo does in the builder is force you to use good Pokemon and movesets you would run anyways, which is far less restrictive than Pokemon like Zacian-C which have a handful of answers to either of its sets, most of which are terrible mons which offer virtually nothing else.
- If freeze is a reliable strategy to handle Mewtwo then that just shows how broken it is.
This response just shows how little you play a tier. While yes, on any given turn a freeze is not reliable to go for, the video is not talking about freezing on any one turn, it is talking about freezing Mewtwo with one Ice Beam out of 16 while your own Mewtwo is paralyzed or you are going for the freeze with your Chansey, preventing your Mewtwo from being frozen, which occurs over 80% of the time, which is consistent to go for. Getting an event which occurs over 80% of the time isn't hax, it's just expected.
- Not being immune to status doesn't make a mon not broken.
This misses a lot of key factors about the tier, and the point of the video to begin with, which was debunking the myth of Mewtwo being an unstoppable monster in Ubers with hardly any counterplay except for using your own Mewtwo or specialized strategies and Pokemon, used to handle it, as some sources would have you believe. I already covered freeze, so I won't do that again, but let's now go over sleep and paralysis. Sleep is incredibly important to gen 1 play, playing a large factor in the balance of every tier, and Ubers is no exception. Even without Mewtwo you would run a sleep user, it's just that good. And because it is so potent, it ends up being an effective tool to threaten Mewtwo with early in the game, and opens up lines of counterplay. Paralysis is incredibly easy to spread in Gen 1 and a core part of nearly every tier, because of how many top mons run Thunder Wave, Stun Spore, or Body Slam. It just is fundamental to the generation and would be important to Ubers regardless of if Mewtwo existed. And mentioned, as mentioned in the video, once paralyzed, this opens up Mewtwo to being checked by physical attackers exploiting its lowered speed Stat to threaten KOs or heavy damage. All of these statuses are core parts of how Gen 1 play functions, they are the furthest things from a specialized that exists.
Anyways, I hope you all enjoyed the video, if you have any feedback or questions you would like to ask please ask them, I and other players would be happy to answer when we can. I definitely should have explained that the core argument was that all these ways of handling Mewtwo are fundamental parts of gen 1 play, with the mons and statuses all being used because they are strong and not just listing them off.
Sorry if this got a bit rantlike, I just got frustrated with comments from people who have never played gen 1 that trying to debunk the video.
YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF with the original title. I'll put this simple, If the entire meta is centered around checking something (Not countering, that thing lacks real counters) then you are just proving the mon is busted. That being said being busted is not good enough reason to ban something or else gen 2 Snorlax would be ubers, you need to be nocive for the tier's integrity. M-Rayquaza got banned not only for being ridiculously strong, but also because the team structure left behind is so weak, even though Primal Groudon is considered a tiny bit better due to higher flexibility.
Zacian-crowned in Ubers followed a weird story who kinda proves my point: At the beginning of the tier he was allowed to exist due to fire type dynamax and having so few legendaries, so it wasn't a big deal to dedicate half of your team to counter Zacian-crowned. Then the Crown Tundra came and with that Calyrex-Shadow (Who's being suspect tested right now) and a whole lot of legendaries, as well as the Dynamax ban. The dog+horse combo was and still is just unwallable without dynamax, due to how fairy covers dark and Calyrex can defeat Zacian checks, and if you try to check those 2 you still have a Yveltal, Marshadow, Eternatus and Necrozma DM to worry about, therefore they banned the better part of the combo in Zacian crowned and Zacian shortly after. What's the takeaway? Simple, that the ubers powercreep and Calyrex was what pushed Zacian-C over the edge; Ironically being less broken relatively speaking made it more broken in practice.
I think it's unfair to just say that Mewtwo's checks are mons you would run anyways, when many of Gen 1 OU's best Pokemon are underused in Ubers *specifically because* they aren't as great at fighting Mewtwo. Starmie, Alakazam and Cloyster are all at the tip of OU's iceberg, yet they find themselves D ranks in the most recent Ubers viability rankings. The fact that Ubers and OU are different metas *at all* instead of Ubers just being OU sets + two new mons shows how much they need to be respected.
At any rate, the distinction between Ubers and OU of gens 1/2 are largely maintaining the tradition of those mons always being banned at events in the past, so it's hard to really fathom their balance when compared to more modern metagames.
Perhaps a better question to ask wouldn't be "is gen 1 Mewtwo better than Mega Ray?" but rather something more along the lines of "Is gen 1 Mewtwo better than gen 2 Snorlax?" *that's* a comparison I'd like to see at some point because they feel really similar.
I dunno where I'm going with this. Kinda just spewing nonsense. Uhhhhhh
While nothing is guranteed with fighting Mewtwo
I think that generally Light Screen Chansey, Self destruct Snorlax, Swords Dance/ Transform Mew , Exeggutor with its standard set , and Tobybro all have some capacity to deal or annoy Mewtwo to some degree and no other Pokémon in the game qualified for this - besides your own Mewtwo of course
I just wonder why Exeggutor and Slowbro are not considered as 5th or 6th best Pokémon overalls?
I think these two have unique traits Psychic/Ice and Psychic/ Electric resistance in addition to checking Mew, Tauros , Snorlax or anything in Exeggutor case make them mandatory
@@wannabecinnabonMewtwo Mew Chansey and Snorlax are all at the very least going to be required to use in a Gen 1 Ubers Metagame because they bring so much to use
The last two is really up to you but I generally like Exeggutor + Slowbro because of their unique traits to deal with a certain Mewtwo set in addition to checking other Threats like Mew Snorlax Tauros , Gengar etc
Tauros and Exeggutor are also excellent for immediate offensive pressure
Amongus
Understandable
*Uses T wave + OHKO move*
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a Mewtwo is a good guy with a Mewtwo.
Or a Light Screen Chansey or Slowbro
In the Japanese version of Red/Green/Blue, Blizzard has a 30% freeze chance.
Yes freeze is more broken than mewtwo, but freeze is still more broken than M ray and Zacian
>freeze is still more broken than M ray and Zacian
*in Gen 1
@@abarette_ even gen 2-8 freeze is more broken than M ray and Zacian in the same way that moody was banned before Zacian. But if we want to get super technical rg blizzard with its 33% freeze chance is the most powerful attack in all of pokemon, be like combining draco meteor with fissue.
@@windwaker0rules When did Blizzard get a 33% freeze chance? 30% chance to miss is I think is what you mean.
@@windwaker0rules thaws out first turn
@@zer0hak in red and green blzzard had a 30% freeze chance and 95% acc, yes it is as dumb as it sounds.
This was interesting, but didn't really have a central argument against "Gen 1 Mewtwo is the strongest Pokemon of all time". Listing off potential situation it loses isn't enough without also saying how Mega Rayquaza/Zacian have less difficulty or are more dominant.
I wouldn’t call it the strongest but it is a really Strong Pokémon in its own right
A core of Light Screen Chansey, Exeggutor, and Slowbro alone will not let Mewtwo sweep that easily a team because it’s likely to miss coverage for one of those Pokémon
Then there’s the fact that it’s not bypassing Mewtwo and Light Screen chansey that easily no matter what it runs because they require a few hits to take down.
And there’s also the fact that even after fully boosted Snorlax and Mew can live ANY hit from Mewtwo at least one and it either risk getting paralyzed or blow up which are all dealy for it
That said the strongest Mewtwo set is Boltbeam or Blizzbolt. This set as the strongest potential of all . easily slices thru Slowbro and Exeggutor after setup , 2OHKOs Mew and Snorlax and can freeze the other Mewtwo or Chansey
If Mewtwo gets a freeze then freeze clause takes effect and it can no longer beat Light Screen Chansey
broken ? I guess it depends
Very strong option? Yes indeed
A newbie with 6 Zacian will lose to Tempt6 with a team of 2 low-tiers and any of a dozen silly rare strategies. No strategy (during battle or at the team-building stage) punishes using "too many Mewtwo" (as there is no such thing) in gen 1.
If you play gen 8 vs a friend with in-game cartridge rules and know in advance that he will use a team of 6 Zacian, you can counter it fairly easily. If instead it's gen 1 and you hear he will use 6 Mewtwo (pre-poisoned to be immune to other status), you just go "of course he will, it's the best team" and then proceed to do the same yourself or be at a big disadvantage.
tfw 99% of the comments don't know wtf they're talking about, but get mad that the video supposedly doesn't know wtf it's talking about
Honestly the most Dangerous Mewtwo set to face is it’s Boltbeam or Blizzbolt set because that set can rip apart Exeggutor and Slowbro easily and still possibly freeze the other Mewtwo or Chansey
Snorlax and Mew can all live at least 1 hit from it at full health and retaliate back
One thing that needs to be mention that it’s important to know that Mewtwo isn’t the only Pokémon to worry about. You need to take into consideration Mew , Snorlax , Exeggutor Slowbro, Gengar, Zapdos, Rhydon and Tauros
For this reason I always think Exeggutor and Slowbro should be the 5th and 6th most mandatory Pokémon in Ubers
Hello freezai, great video! However, I feel like you left out the biggest counter to Mewtwo that exists: the X button. This is a little known strategy, but one that works quite well. In the corner of the little tab that indicates your battle, there will be a X button that you can click. Clicking it will make a new Forfeit button appear. By clicking this forfeit button the battle will be over, and Mewtwo will not have taken a single kill.
(Jokes aside this is a great idea for a video. So many people nowadays think rby ubers is just hoping for your Mewtwo to beat the other Mewtwo without any more strategy. I would love if you did more videos that follow this style; particular, one that delves into the topic of how one can beat stall. Seriously tired of everyone calling the, at best, mid playstyle, "broken".
Only Pokémon qualified to take on Gen 1 Mewtwo head on in Gen 1
Opposing Mewtwo
transform / sd Mew
Slowbro
Exeggutor
Light screen chansey
Snorlax
Amensia Hypno
That’s it lol
In AG, all Zacian or all Mega Rayquaza sets aren't viable. If Gen 1 Ubers did not have species clause, then all Mewtwo teams would be the only viable team.
ok but the fact you can run all the Mewtwo sets at the same time and you Will not know It until you see it makes Mewtwo very broken
not as much as Zacian and Mega Ray, those Two can kill themselves no cap in most brokeness
Uh, no not really, its not OHKOing much from full so you can scout out its set without losing a poke most of the time. You only really need Chansey and Mewtwo to handle the opposing Mewtwo defensively, other mons are definitely nice for handling it defensively, but you only really need those two.
In case other people were wondering: Mewtwo *can* learn substitute in gen 1, but it doesn't block status attacks like t-wave or sing so it's not useful
But in Stadium it does, so Stadium 1 Mewtwo is even more busted.
@@OmegaTyrant Does it run a mono attacking set or is it sub/amnesia/attack 1/attack 2? Without recover
@@dannyorrmedia With the Stadium rules of "Bring 6, use 3", you can get away with just Psychic, for full 6-on-6 it would probably be ideal to give up a Recover or Amnesia for a second attack, or save Mewtwo for later in the match, as otherwise you could very well run out of attacking PP with just Psychic.
@@OmegaTyrantdon’t use Psychic as a Mono-attacking option. It’s asking for Trouble if the other Opponent has a Mewtwo , Mew, Slowbro or Exeggutor
Thunderbolt is a better option as Rhydon isn’t common in Ubers and T-bolt will eventually wear down Exeggutor
It’s not really that good though. You are scarficing another coverage Move and risk getting PP stall a lot easier.
You are giving up basically the ability to beat some Bulky Psychic or Fat Normal type on the other side ….
Mewtwo suffers heavily from four move slot syndrome. Similar to Mega Metagross.
It's not 4MSS when having just 4 moveslots to choose out of several only lets you beat 70-80% of the meta instead of 100%, because by that logic EVERYTHING has 4MSS.
4MSS is primarily reserved for Pokemon that need more than 4 moveslots to even function in their primary role; these Pokemon are few and far between, but to give you an idea, Regigigas is by far the biggest offender of 4MSS
@@breloommaster12 Moveslot syndrome is when a pokemon has more moves that it wants then moveslots. Mewtwo has to choose getting walled by certain pokemon specifically because he doesnt have enough moveslots. Thus, four move slot syndrome.
@@sansthedog yes, so by your logic literally everything in the game has 4 moveslot syndrome, but that is not how that term came into existence, and Mewtwo is the one of the LAST things to suffer from it. Like oh boohoo, having only 4 moves only lets the Pokémon destroy 70-80% of the meta instead of being a truly unstoppable monster; that's not 4MSS, that's being entitled lol.
Blizzbolt or Boltbeam Mewtwo would cover everything it really needs to though and slice apart 98 percent of the metagame especially Slowbro and Exeggutor in addition to fishing for a freeze on the Light Screen Chansey or Opposing Mewtwo
If you run Blizzard then you score a lot of 2OHKOs on Snorlax Mew, and instantly OHKO Exeggutor after an Amensia boost
It doesn’t really need another move honestly. Psychic and Submission are not hitting anything else notable that you aren’t already hitting with Blizzbolt expect Light Screen Chansey
Just my opinion . Blizzbolt or Boltbeam is more than enough to threaten everything in the game besides Opposing Mewtwo and Light Screen Chansey and even they both fear a freeze
Next thing you see is Freezai wining a RBY Uber tournament without Mewtwo. I am a believer.
There will always be counters. No pokemon is truly unstoppable
"Why Gen 1 Mewtwo isn't as broken as you think" used to be the title of the video before Freezai changed it. Hence why some comments refer to the 'most broken mon of all time' debacle
Damn, that was a quick change.
I mean the content of the video refers to that debate also.
Because he got proved wrong *with his own words.* Indeed Mewtwo IS BROKEN, specially due to context, but you as a player can play around and with it. It's the same principle as with gen 2 OU and Chess with the queen. Still despise those metagames due to how restrictive teambuilding is, but that's maybe a matter of taste, of me wanting to not copypaste teams.
@@N12015 How old gen players use the word "Broken" is if something has hardly any answers which you can reasonably fit on your team, which Mewtwo does not satisfy, hence under that description, calling Mewtwo not broken is apt.
As an aside, Gen 1 Ubers is an incredibly diverse metagame, with tons of variety in teams and movesets (Aerodactyl and Golbat are viable and have niches ffs), its the furthest thing from a metagame where every team is copied and pasted.
@@shellnut8224 Sir, you won't convince anyone with those twitter tantrums; you'll just ruin the image of this channel. Even Smogon itself admits how meta warping Mewtwo is compared to ANY other tier, and I can't call the meta diverse due to requiring 4 slots of your team to Mewtwo in some capacity, much like I can't call gen 1 OU diverse either.
You build your gen 1 ubers team around getting the opponent's mewtwo out of the way so yours can wreak havoc.
Remember, just like how Snorlax and Gen 2 has ways for peeps to beat it aside from their own Snorlax, Mons like Mewtwo, Mega Ray Cray Cray, Zacian and Gen 4 Arceus still have ways to get slapped up.
Mewtwo just so happens to be the most broken to this day, because the entire meta game working together to beat you is pretty impressive.
Last time I beat a Mewtwo in Gen 1, I used a Moltres. First, I used Agility and barely tanked a Psychic. I then spammed Fire Spin.
mogus.
The best Mewtwo counter: MEWTWO!
I mean, i get it, but that's basically saying mewtwo isn't unbeatable because you can make a team tailored to counter it. That's not really a good argument for him not being the strongest of all time. Zacian-C or MegaRay also can be statused, they also have counters, they can't deal with an entire team build around countering them. BUT, they don't warp the format like mewtwo in Gen 1 Ubers, most people wouldn't run a team with 6 Mega Ray (if it was posssible) or a 6 Zacian-C, but i can guarantee in Gen1 Ubers EVERYONE would use a full Mewtwo team.
I don’t think that’s the point of Gen 1 Ubers. in addition to Mewtwo and Mew you also have to beat the opponents Snorlax , chansey , Exeggutor or whatever other Pokémon they decide to use
This is why Mewtwo Mew Chansey and Snorlax make up the large majority of Gen 1 Uber teams
Other very good but not mandatory Pokémon that are good include Exeggutor, Slowbro, Tauros, Rhydon, Gengar, Zapdos
yay im in this video!
But for anyone watching, I would try out the meta it is really fun and deeper than you expect
After Mewtwo and Mew
The 4 most mandatory Pokémon on most teams should be Chansey, Snorlax, Slowbro, and Exeggutor.
These 4 create a strong impact in the Ubers Metagame and have the best chance of beating down Mewtwo and Mew in addition to other threats
TLDR: You dont, you merely survive it
The weird meta that makes Mewtwo overpowered is the same that gives his weaknesses.
Poetic, I think.
RBY Uber meta is extremely centeralizing around getting ahead with your own mewtwo. No one else had that impact in the meta game ever and never will be another one in the future. As we have a lot more option now and GF is better with balancing compare to gen1.
Barely better tbh
If everything is Broken nothing is
Can you make videos on how to beat mega Rayquaza and Zacian now?
Holy moly 86% unsubscribed we’re so close to 100% everyone start doing their part
""MUH SUBS, MUH SUBS. YOU GUYS ARE WATCHING BUT YOU AIN'T SUBBED" Learn how the algorithm works
And now calyrex shadow is getting suspected
Before watching the video: Explosion
I like the idea that Mewtwo is so good that it’s actually bad because he’s so scared that everybody wants to kill him
Surely why would you not? You also need a play to care for other threats like Mew Snorlax Chansey bro and egg and sometimes Zapdos Gengar Tauros and rhydon
Use your own Mewtwo, hope you win the speed tie and paralize it with Thunder Wave.
Mewtwo rarely runs Thunder Wave, it doesn't have room for it.
So the trainers in the first movie could've beaten Mewtwo after all, had they brought in the right mons.
They just needed to engineer their own Mewtwo and a good team.
If they had just run Chansey and Exeggutor and Snorlax, yeah basically.
It's simple:
YOU DON'T
Finally... someone who doesn't just bullshit people and simply satisfying people's confirmation bias. Similarly, tauros is strong but not noticeably stronger than say snorlax in gen 1.
Snorlax was gen 2 goat, while tauros is gen 1 goat, the entire gen 1 competitive is around tauros and the best win condition for a player was just keep tauros safe from status. At least both Zacian-Crowned and mray have counter and check, but gosh, tauros was literally unstoppable lmao
@@alibaba-yi1lo starmie
At full health tho lmao
@@alibaba-yi1lo
"Snorlax was gen 2 goat, while tauros is gen 1 goat"
This is exactly the bias. Just because snorlax was the gen 2 goat, it doesn't mean that it is significantly "weaker" than tauros in gen 1.
If you just look at tornament statistics, teams without snorlax have a bit lower winrate than teams without tauros (although more than 90% of the teams have both), so in that sense snorlax is argubly more important... but I'm not even claiming that. I simply saying tauros is not considerably more important than mons like snorlax in rby.
"At least both Zacian-Crowned and mray have counter and check, but gosh, tauros was literally unstoppable lmao"
dude... snorlax is literally a check for tauros. exeggutor, lax, closyter, slowbro, starmie are all checks to tauros.
You should do a video on gen 1 tradebacks
This video could have been 2 seconds long with the only words being "Freeze it."
I kinda wish if there is a National Dex Doubles format in Showdown
I knew this was coming when people overestimated how overpowered Mewtwo in Gen 1 was in your poll.
Not overpowered it’s a really strong Pokémon though
Mewtwo with Blizzard/Ice Beam and Thunderbolt will beat down 98 percent of the metagame without much hassle and the other 2 Percent ( Light Screen Chansey and Opposing Mewtwo ) can suffer from a Freeze or too many Crits
It will still have to play around its check carefully especially after it’s paralyzed as Snorlax, Mew, and Rhydon are more threatening to Mewtwo when it’s paralyzed
I feel like the tl;dr is that gen1 ubers is simply a competitive game of roulette as the first to meaningfully status the other wins.
yes
U need to play the game then to understand it then . Getting a freeze on Mewtwo isn’t even close to winning the game although it’s a huge victory. You can paralyze and it will now be more instantly afraid of Snorlax Mew rhydon and Tauros
It’s not like it even runs barrier half the time
Well explained, Freezai. If you're ever doing more gen 1 content and want a collaborative effort, let me know. I'm a pretty active member of the gen 1 scene on smogon (especially in the random battles) and would love to become more of a youtube creator of this type of content
Ah yes, good old 4 move slot syndrome to balance a pokemon. + broken gen 1 status.
How to beat mewtwo: freeze sleep or paralyze
Ngl the thing is mewto can easily counter every single one of its checks by just having a move
So it literally has 4 move syndrome
Like all mewto needs is 1 good rng turn and your entire team is just gone
Mewtwo is kind of like the queen in chess
In other words you need 3 or 4 pokemon to beat it.
Only 2 mons are needed to handle it defensively, those being Chansey and Mewtwo, both of which you would be running anyways, and probably physical attackers like Mew and Snorlax which are top mons in their own right and ones you would use regardless of it Mewtwo existed or not.
@@shellnut8224Slowbro and Exeggutor are maybe the most highly recommanded 5th and 6th Pokémon for RBY Ubers
Resist Psychic and T-Bolt/Ice Beam respectively is huge in addition to good typing bulk and ability to strike back hard
Mewoto sounds still very borken because youre still putting yourself in a disadveantge because youre not using him
Agreed. Mega Ray is stupider.
The title sounds promising
Get Slowbro in Gen2, teach him Hypnosis and Dream Eater via TM and then trade him to Gen1, and teach him Substitute and Blizzard via TM. Mewtwo will be torn to pieces.
Checked by meta mons OMEGALUL
Laughs in Zacian, the truly most bs pokemon ever.
Whoa where is this game?
tbh what I care most about is that RBY Mewtwo will always be infinitely less *annoying* to me than MRay and Zacian lol
If you have to run Light Screen on CHANSEY of all Pokémon that says a lot.
You don't have to, nowadays a lot of players are dropping Light Screen because of how passive it is, instead running Sing, Thunder Wave, and Seismic Toss, to force recovers on a para'd mewtwo and sending snorlax/mew in during the turn it heals.
@@shellnut8224 I think the fact that it was used at all says a lot.
In addition to checking Mewtwo with Light Screen, Chansey also fared better against Tobybro who is also a dangerous Pokemon to face in Gen 1 Ubers
@@shellnut8224I don’t know . I would hate to be weak to Blizzbolt/ Boltbeam Mewtwo without Light Screen Chansey and a 6+ Slowbro
You can say goodbye to Chansey a lot quicker that way
Light screen isn’t just for Mewtwo it also helps against Slowbro
Zacian-Crowned and Mega-Rayquaza didn’t require entire teams to just beat them and weren’t 100% mandatory. Mewtwo was.
Except thats not really the case, you only need Chansey and your own Mewtwo to check theirs defensively, and just run good mons like Snorlax, Mew, Rhydon, and Exeggutor, to handle it offensively, all of which are great pokemon in their own right and Pokemon you would use regardless of how they handled Mewtwo.
As an aside, a mon being mandatory doesn't make it broken. Gen 1 OU has 3 mandatory mons, Snorlax, Tauros, and Chansey, and all of them are fantastic mons, but none of them are really broken (Tauros is not even close to broken, its really good but not broken, unlike FSG would have you believe)
This comment just shows how little you understand the RBY Ubers metagame, and that you should play a format before you comment on its balance.
Why mewtwo isn’t broken in Gen 1
Your opponent also has mewtwo
FINALLY!!! THANK YOU! FROM A HARDCORE MEWTWO FAN, MY SINCERE APPRETIATION!
Would Lugia be better if it was created in gen 1 and kept aeroblast?
there is a mode with only gen 1 battles?? that sound intesting. is it in showdown?
@MASSAGE ME ON TELEGRAM @Freezai yeah no thanks you
Mewtwo Gen 1 Ubers = Snorlax Gen 2 OU = Mega Rayquaza Gen 6 AG
At least, that's my interpretation. They are all so obscenely broken that it loops back around to being counterable because literally everyone is playing it and around it.
I got top 200 in Gen 1 Ubers with Mewtwo freezing and sweeping my opponents its a funny tier
FSG: are you sure about that?
Speaking as a prominent gen 1 player myself, being the person in charge of the UU viability rankings for RBY and playing a large role in the development of NU and PU, FSG is a terrible source for Gen 1 competitive, with their videos on gen 1 almost always being either inaccurate or misleading. Their content is accurate after ADV, but GSC and especially RBY, are a step down in quality from the other generations.
@@shellnut8224 ah I see