I'm sorry but once heard, cannot be unheard: at 2:58 I've heard you saying "If this guy had previously been trained in 'pee' he would have given me 2 water". I wasn't watching when you said that so I immediately thought it's some kind of a "post-apocalyptic parody" game :P
@@MickRissling well that's weird. how do they explain what the training is all about then? "a place with A can be worked by guy having an A" seems a little too silly and dry, hopefully that's not how the rulebook reads (I know Fallout inside and out btw, but I was really expecting SPECIAL to be explained in the rulebook, but when Rahdo stumbled @2:00 I had to look down to comments).
The "Fallout Shelter board game" is faithful to the "Fallout Shelter video game", where the "workers" eat automatically, and you don't have to feed them!
Great reviews, as usual. Thank :-) You've got a fair point about the workers tax, makes sense. But by going for that you're wasting turns getting food and workers, where others are building stuff or get cool items. I wonder of that doesn't somewhat balance out the issue. Although, yes, you could monopolise once you've got that extra worker and first player once one of the two spaces Is blocked by a monster. Soon I'll find out myself :-) About your other issues about going through the same motions at the beginning of the game. Well, yes, but in my experience that's with a lot of games. Fair point, but a bit fierce in the criticism. I think you could apply this to so many games where you're not pointing that out. But actually I don't see much of an issue since you've already given the solution? Pick a location card per player +1, let the last player pick first + a free resource and the first player last and solved? You could play up to 7 locations If the boost turns out to throw the game balance off. But yes, this could be a variation in the manual. Missed opportunity. We play a lot of game with similar house rules. For instance we also play roll/race for the galaxy with a higher location limit and more points to let the engine run a bit more longer and powerful and give a more engaging experience for us. No problem at all. Wasn't in their manual either, but makes the game much better for us. So, people, feel free to be creative. Don't get so stuck up if you see how the game could be better :-) You don't have to wait for an updated manual to play it.
Home made rule for the worker problem. 1.Just pass the first player counter each round. 2.Put a limit to workers you can have each round. 2 on the first 2 rounds, 3 in the 4, ... 3. Pay 1 resource for each worker you have more than other player. So if 1 player has 4 workers and the second player has only 2, pay 2 resources or lose one worker for each resource you dont pay.
i don't agree with your notion about starting off the game right away with rooms already built. That kind of destroys the theme of being a vault manager building your vault from square one. However, I do agree with not liking how there is no maintenance for your vault dwellers (which in this game is your workers. Fallout shelter is a mobile game set in the fallout universe, and in that game, you have to manage your power, water, and food. Your vault dwellers need food and water and if they don't get it they will become angry and maybe even leave the vault. Also each room you had installed required power and if you didn't have enough power the rooms would shut down. Something else that could shut down rooms is creature infestations. Overall, the game does a mediocre job of converting this simulation into a board game format. I think they should have made a variant that turns on all these systems for the full experience for experienced board gamers. I also agree that there is no variable set up and that completely falls flat in-hindsight of what's it's like to start up your own vault in Fallout Shelter. In the mobile game, you start with a handful of vault dwellers that can be assigned to different positions to work jobs in your vault, however each of the dwellers starts at different levels of the special attributes, which means each of them is better at certain jobs, and the attribute stats you get for your starting vault dwellers is completely random. Likewise, other than the 'other' way of getting new vault dwellers which aren't in this game, new vault dwellers come to your vault to be admitted, however it is up to you to decide whether or not to let them in which many times is determined by the newcomer's attribute stats, which again is random for each new newcomer. So I actually have a variant in mind which would be great if they could implement that would create lots of variability in startup and throughout the game, but would still be keeping the game to its thematic roots: 1. At setup, you draw two vault dweller cards for each worker you begin with that have a certain number of starting stats. This will give each worker the ability to specific areas that enhance their output without further training, though those stats could be trained even further. This would kind of mimic the random vault dwellers that you would get at the start of the mobile game. 2. During the game when a player goes to the vault entrance to get a new worker, they would draw 3 vault dweller cards, selecting one for their new worker, discarding the others. This would kind of mimic the selection process a player of the mobile game would go through picking their new vault dweller out of a number of newcomers. I think this would help the variability immensely. Again neither of the variants should be used for new players to the board gaming hobby but it would be great to really enhance the game for long time board game enthusiasts. (this isn't to say that i had spent a long time playing the mobile game. I played it for maybe 10-15 hours over the span of 6 months than quickly lost interest in it because of it's grindy nature (it took forever to get resources) and the loot boxes and microtransactions that incentivise people to pay money to make the game less grindy.)
Damn now I want to cancel my preorder. Horrible gamedesign if one resource is so incredibly superior to others and a literal autowin if you can dominate it. That's what ruined underwater cities for me. FFG have lost their panache. You probably could houserule, that the first player can't enter the first player space or that having more workers than other players costs one food for every worker you have more than others, except for the first one.
What if we add some changing into the game. Like for example taxing every round. 2 dwellers - no upkeep 3-4 dwellers - you need to upkeep your growing colony by paying one food or one water 5-6 dwellers - 2 food or water 7-8 dwellers - 3 food or water it should be better ? And the thing that you start game with little drafting from buildings and equipment is in my opinion an improvement as well.
@10:31 Yellow grabs first player but Rahdo did not pick the token and end up forgetting about it later. So actually Jen (Blue) did not succeed in dominating first player. That would be a game changer. Also, Yellow could hire a worker by spending food + water + harming dweller instead of going for the gun and ALSO retrieve the first player on that same round. That was a bad play on Yellow side. It was great choice for the sake of the tutorial, since it shows how a player scavenge items, however, it is not a good exposition on how the game is supposedly broken in regards to first player exploit.
I bought this just cause I'm a fallout nut. Luckily it's great :) Only played a couple nights so far but have had a great time with friends :) Recommended
I know this is an old video, but my friends and I were all of a different mind: how many item cards can you exhaust per turn? For example to ensure a high roll for a monster?
sorry it's been years since i've played so i don't remember specifics. but if you ask here: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/293889/fallout-shelter-board-game/forums/66 you're sure to get a solid answer :)
I liked the game but I found easy locking the other player by staying the first player. When that case become infested and you're the first it's quite impossible not to win. The absence of feeding mechanic is for sure deadly, as I specialized in food and recruited 3x more workers than the others. Maybe some custom tweak could solve that. Like using water to feed them as otherwise it's not that useful. I like the idea of your variant so we're gonna try it next time. Thanks Rahdo !
Hmmm. Interesting. I actually think I would use the room drafting + 1 extra resource of each type as a standard rule. I agree it would make the game more interesting from the start. Then again, I havent tried it. But looking forwards to it. :)
the S P E C I A L training offsets the first player advantage. For example you take the double food space I will take the first player space and train in Luck so the next time I go to the single food space I get 2 instead of one. If your first move is to take the first player space then I will just get the double food space. Also there is another space to train workers for 1 food and 1 water, so I imagine that 3-4 player gameplay is balanced too.
right, i maybe didn't make it clear, but when i pointed out the value of monopolizing the first player token, it was in concert with the very real possibility that enemies will block all other players from essential spaces, and bad dice rolls will keep those enemies in place, and lead to some players falling behind with no results for injured workers. really, increasing your worker count is paramount with the current design, and if one player can, through a confluence of random events, maintain that lead, they likely will win. SPECIAL spaces don't address this... the default ones don't enhance your situation at all really. it takes 2 turns to leverage a letter (one to earn letter, one to place trained worker) and the result is the same as if you'd done two turns at the location, and in the early game, it's very easy to block one out of that bonus, which means it's instantly lost as well, resulting in 2 lost turns.
Love the mobile game, and most of this looks like a great board game version of that.. Except for the roll for success, that's a dealbreaker for me. Shame they did that, seems lazy 😞
@@rahdo Yeah, they're probably aiming for non-boardgamers who love the mobile game (which is a bestseller), and don't want to overcomplicate things. I still feel like they could've worked in some mechanism of rolling before deciding, or maybe some method (like card draws) where at least you could have an educated guess at a result. The way the game is now, you can get extremely unlucky having monsters immediately jump into everything you build, and rolling too low to get rid of them. Whereas others might never get any monsters, and when they do encounter one (in the general area) they always roll a 12.
Hmmm Rahdo, you are a former designer of Fable and does not know what S stands for in the Fallout universe? I like you, but shame on you on this one :)
hehe, i was pretty much 100% a console guy when the original game out in the 90s, and as for the newer ones, well... bethesda softworks and i don't really mix well :)
@@rahdo nooo, you're gonna start a flame war of the PC master race :). But yeah as a fellow game designer I can understand what you are saying about not mixing well with some developer.
I'm sorry but once heard, cannot be unheard: at 2:58 I've heard you saying "If this guy had previously been trained in 'pee' he would have given me 2 water". I wasn't watching when you said that so I immediately thought it's some kind of a "post-apocalyptic parody" game :P
For those not familiar with Fallout SPECIAL system, it stands for: Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility and Luck
thank you! you'd think the would put that in the rulebook!!!
@@rahdo Yes, that's a pity. Seems like they assumed that players who choose to play it know Fallout already.
They've been doing that SPECIAL system since the start but if course many people won't know that... It is strange they would not say in rulebook
Thank you!!!
@@MickRissling well that's weird. how do they explain what the training is all about then? "a place with A can be worked by guy having an A" seems a little too silly and dry, hopefully that's not how the rulebook reads (I know Fallout inside and out btw, but I was really expecting SPECIAL to be explained in the rulebook, but when Rahdo stumbled @2:00 I had to look down to comments).
Finally this is a Rahdo I know....great review man!
The "Fallout Shelter board game" is faithful to the "Fallout Shelter video game", where the "workers" eat automatically, and you don't have to feed them!
Great reviews, as usual. Thank :-) You've got a fair point about the workers tax, makes sense. But by going for that you're wasting turns getting food and workers, where others are building stuff or get cool items. I wonder of that doesn't somewhat balance out the issue. Although, yes, you could monopolise once you've got that extra worker and first player once one of the two spaces Is blocked by a monster. Soon I'll find out myself :-) About your other issues about going through the same motions at the beginning of the game. Well, yes, but in my experience that's with a lot of games. Fair point, but a bit fierce in the criticism. I think you could apply this to so many games where you're not pointing that out. But actually I don't see much of an issue since you've already given the solution? Pick a location card per player +1, let the last player pick first + a free resource and the first player last and solved? You could play up to 7 locations If the boost turns out to throw the game balance off. But yes, this could be a variation in the manual. Missed opportunity. We play a lot of game with similar house rules. For instance we also play roll/race for the galaxy with a higher location limit and more points to let the engine run a bit more longer and powerful and give a more engaging experience for us. No problem at all. Wasn't in their manual either, but makes the game much better for us. So, people, feel free to be creative. Don't get so stuck up if you see how the game could be better :-) You don't have to wait for an updated manual to play it.
fair points, though my counter is faq.rahdo.com #24 :)
"It just works" :D
Valid critiques. I'm going to add your house rule recommendations.
Good suggestions
Thanks
Home made rule for the worker problem.
1.Just pass the first player counter each round.
2.Put a limit to workers you can have each round. 2 on the first 2 rounds, 3 in the 4, ...
3. Pay 1 resource for each worker you have more than other player. So if 1 player has 4 workers and the second player has only 2, pay 2 resources or lose one worker for each resource you dont pay.
Love the Sinead cameo
yeah, that came out of nowhere :)
Thanks for another great review! Totally agree with the take on the game.
i don't agree with your notion about starting off the game right away with rooms already built. That kind of destroys the theme of being a vault manager building your vault from square one.
However, I do agree with not liking how there is no maintenance for your vault dwellers (which in this game is your workers. Fallout shelter is a mobile game set in the fallout universe, and in that game, you have to manage your power, water, and food. Your vault dwellers need food and water and if they don't get it they will become angry and maybe even leave the vault. Also each room you had installed required power and if you didn't have enough power the rooms would shut down. Something else that could shut down rooms is creature infestations. Overall, the game does a mediocre job of converting this simulation into a board game format. I think they should have made a variant that turns on all these systems for the full experience for experienced board gamers.
I also agree that there is no variable set up and that completely falls flat in-hindsight of what's it's like to start up your own vault in Fallout Shelter. In the mobile game, you start with a handful of vault dwellers that can be assigned to different positions to work jobs in your vault, however each of the dwellers starts at different levels of the special attributes, which means each of them is better at certain jobs, and the attribute stats you get for your starting vault dwellers is completely random. Likewise, other than the 'other' way of getting new vault dwellers which aren't in this game, new vault dwellers come to your vault to be admitted, however it is up to you to decide whether or not to let them in which many times is determined by the newcomer's attribute stats, which again is random for each new newcomer.
So I actually have a variant in mind which would be great if they could implement that would create lots of variability in startup and throughout the game, but would still be keeping the game to its thematic roots:
1. At setup, you draw two vault dweller cards for each worker you begin with that have a certain number of starting stats. This will give each worker the ability to specific areas that enhance their output without further training, though those stats could be trained even further. This would kind of mimic the random vault dwellers that you would get at the start of the mobile game.
2. During the game when a player goes to the vault entrance to get a new worker, they would draw 3 vault dweller cards, selecting one for their new worker, discarding the others. This would kind of mimic the selection process a player of the mobile game would go through picking their new vault dweller out of a number of newcomers.
I think this would help the variability immensely. Again neither of the variants should be used for new players to the board gaming hobby but it would be great to really enhance the game for long time board game enthusiasts.
(this isn't to say that i had spent a long time playing the mobile game. I played it for maybe 10-15 hours over the span of 6 months than quickly lost interest in it because of it's grindy nature (it took forever to get resources) and the loot boxes and microtransactions that incentivise people to pay money to make the game less grindy.)
"It just works" ;)
LOL the irony
@3:02 if he had been trained in P, he would’ve given me two water... :D
Damn now I want to cancel my preorder. Horrible gamedesign if one resource is so incredibly superior to others and a literal autowin if you can dominate it. That's what ruined underwater cities for me. FFG have lost their panache. You probably could houserule, that the first player can't enter the first player space or that having more workers than other players costs one food for every worker you have more than others, except for the first one.
I like your ideas of the houserules
Yay! Dogmeat! :D
best dog!
What if we add some changing into the game. Like for example taxing every round.
2 dwellers - no upkeep
3-4 dwellers - you need to upkeep your growing colony by paying one food or one water
5-6 dwellers - 2 food or water
7-8 dwellers - 3 food or water
it should be better ? And the thing that you start game with little drafting from buildings and equipment is in my opinion an improvement as well.
yup, i would probably do something like that. i would bet 5+ at 2 food/water is enough though. also, injured characters maybe not drawing resources?
Hi Richard, I love your math shirt :-) I am a math teacher :-)
Love Fallout Shelter! Gonna buy this game!!
@10:31 Yellow grabs first player but Rahdo did not pick the token and end up forgetting about it later. So actually Jen (Blue) did not succeed in dominating first player. That would be a game changer.
Also, Yellow could hire a worker by spending food + water + harming dweller instead of going for the gun and ALSO retrieve the first player on that same round.
That was a bad play on Yellow side. It was great choice for the sake of the tutorial, since it shows how a player scavenge items, however, it is not a good exposition on how the game is supposedly broken in regards to first player exploit.
I bought this just cause I'm a fallout nut. Luckily it's great :) Only played a couple nights so far but have had a great time with friends :) Recommended
I know this is an old video, but my friends and I were all of a different mind: how many item cards can you exhaust per turn? For example to ensure a high roll for a monster?
sorry it's been years since i've played so i don't remember specifics. but if you ask here: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/293889/fallout-shelter-board-game/forums/66 you're sure to get a solid answer :)
@@rahdo thank you! I will do that :)
I liked the game but I found easy locking the other player by staying the first player. When that case become infested and you're the first it's quite impossible not to win.
The absence of feeding mechanic is for sure deadly, as I specialized in food and recruited 3x more workers than the others. Maybe some custom tweak could solve that. Like using water to feed them as otherwise it's not that useful.
I like the idea of your variant so we're gonna try it next time. Thanks Rahdo !
Hmmm. Interesting. I actually think I would use the room drafting + 1 extra resource of each type as a standard rule. I agree it would make the game more interesting from the start. Then again, I havent tried it. But looking forwards to it. :)
if you would have moved the first player token to yourself instead ignoring it game would have been otherwise (17:00 written)
Thank the lord for the Klingon channel =)
I love the idea of having a selected room/item/resource at the start of the game.
the S P E C I A L training offsets the first player advantage. For example you take the double food space I will take the first player space and train in Luck so the next time I go to the single food space I get 2 instead of one. If your first move is to take the first player space then I will just get the double food space. Also there is another space to train workers for 1 food and 1 water, so I imagine that 3-4 player gameplay is balanced too.
right, i maybe didn't make it clear, but when i pointed out the value of monopolizing the first player token, it was in concert with the very real possibility that enemies will block all other players from essential spaces, and bad dice rolls will keep those enemies in place, and lead to some players falling behind with no results for injured workers. really, increasing your worker count is paramount with the current design, and if one player can, through a confluence of random events, maintain that lead, they likely will win. SPECIAL spaces don't address this... the default ones don't enhance your situation at all really. it takes 2 turns to leverage a letter (one to earn letter, one to place trained worker) and the result is the same as if you'd done two turns at the location, and in the early game, it's very easy to block one out of that bonus, which means it's instantly lost as well, resulting in 2 lost turns.
So if FFG makes an expansion for this...
i'd be interested. though i don't think an expansion is even needed, there's enough in the box to come up with an 'advanced variant' i think :)
they weren't able to fix the other Fallout game with an Expansion, I doubt they'd mange this time
Fantastic video! Playing it today. :)
You had to say 'it just works'. Classic Todd.
At 11:12, shouldn't Jenn have gotten another turn since she still had her new worker not assigned?
it looks like she should've
Excellent review
Musthave?
I had it on hold . Order . Might dump it after seeing this .. confirms what I thought it might be ..
Love the mobile game, and most of this looks like a great board game version of that.. Except for the roll for success, that's a dealbreaker for me. Shame they did that, seems lazy 😞
yeah, i'm not crazy about it either. i can only assume they did it to make it even more gateway-ish :)
@@rahdo Yeah, they're probably aiming for non-boardgamers who love the mobile game (which is a bestseller), and don't want to overcomplicate things.
I still feel like they could've worked in some mechanism of rolling before deciding, or maybe some method (like card draws) where at least you could have an educated guess at a result.
The way the game is now, you can get extremely unlucky having monsters immediately jump into everything you build, and rolling too low to get rid of them. Whereas others might never get any monsters, and when they do encounter one (in the general area) they always roll a 12.
Hmmm Rahdo, you are a former designer of Fable and does not know what S stands for in the Fallout universe? I like you, but shame on you on this one :)
hehe, i was pretty much 100% a console guy when the original game out in the 90s, and as for the newer ones, well... bethesda softworks and i don't really mix well :)
@@rahdo nooo, you're gonna start a flame war of the PC master race :). But yeah as a fellow game designer I can understand what you are saying about not mixing well with some developer.