Love love love your videos brother. My daughter is a top junior golfer in AZ and these videos definitely help me when caddying for her in her tourneys. Please keep them coming.
That is just awesome. It gives me great joy that you feel that way. And what a great dad! Reminds me of my dad. She and I are very lucky. I wish you and her the very best. Stay tuned! I have several good ones coming that I'm excited about! But in the meantime, any specific rule/scenario you would like to see?!?!
@@JayRobertsGolf thanks buddy, much appreciated. Its the best part of my day being on the bag for her watching her crush a drive or wedge one in a few inches from the cup. I love the “not so common” scenarios like the video you did when the ball comes to rest on a rake. Honestly I have learned more from watching your videos than reading the USGA rules book twice over. I really hope you get a very strong subscriber base- you deserve it my friend. I have told all my friends and co workers about your channel. Keep up the great work!
That means the world to me. Appreciate the support man. And I’m giving it right back to you, helping The Caddie protect his daughter’s scorecard! Enjoy the journey with her. One shot at a time. You may see a caddie video soon
id expand upon the stakes for ob just a little because many people dont know that only upright stakes can be used as markers. for example point C is directly on your side and is a ob pylon...point B is 5ft forward and 5ft right and is also an ob pylon...point A is directly in line with C but 10ft forward. if point B pylon is laying down it is no longer a valid marker and the new ob line runs from C to A instead of C to B to A...if your ball is in the triangular area created by C, B, A but B is down your ruled Out
I've been playing golf for a little over 1 season now and I don't know the more technical rules like this so I appreciate the content brotha, great explanation.
Hi Jay, really like your vlogs about golf rules. You've made them so accessible! I would love one on the question, "is a provisional / second ball my only option if I hit O.B. from the tee? and if not how many shots will i be counting?"
Hey David! Really appreciate the comment. I've gotten some requests about stroke and distance so it may be time to make one. If you hit your ball OB, the only option is to take stroke and distance by either continuing play with the provisional or going back to where you last played to play again. You would be lying 3 and hitting 4 with your provisional (first stroke out of bounds, second stroke applied as penalty, 3rd stroke made from teeing area). That being said, there is a semi-popular new local rule that allows the player to drop within 2 club-lengths of the fairway at a spot no closer to the hole than where the ball last crossed the edge of the boundary line. But the drop is 2 penalty strokes. You'd still be lying 3 and hitting 4. This local rule is ok for general play but not recommended for competitive events. Hope that helps!
Hi Jay, great videos , short and clear. There is one scenario that I would like to run by you. let's say that after a round of golf we realised that one of the golfers hit their ball on one the holes, that was in fact a wrong ball, OB and the ball hit was past the white sticks. what happens here as it's post match and during in play non of 4 ball realised or call it out.
The problem with the OB ruling is not so much a golfer's understanding (although that often leaves a lot to be desired) but frequently the state of maintenance of the boundary markers. When they are wooden, they can rot and fail. These are not replaced in a timely manner, so the boundary appears to be along the line of remaining posts. Sometimes that is the only way to proceed with them, rather than endless discussions as to where the missing post used to be (worst of all when it's the last post in a finite boundary line)! Then we get posts the other side of bushes and trees because they haven't been trimmed (as we can see in the background here). Trying to determine a precise line to verify whether any part of the ball is still in bounds is nigh-on impossible. An easy rule, often made ridiculous.
had many conversations about this, which is really simple to understand b ut everyone seems to have a different opinion about. What I like about your videos is that you give terminology that I can remember to use in such conversations ... such as 'Course side edge at ground level' :D
Thank you kindly! Word choice is important within the rules so I'm very deliberate about using the right terminology 😁 you throw out something like "course side edge at ground level" to your buddies and I'm sure you'll make a believer out of them lol
I don’t know if you already have a video on it, but what happens if a ball is moved by an outside force before coming to rest? For example, an animal grabs a ball while it’s still rolling, a fan catches it in flight and then either drops it or walks away with it, etc.
I got one for you. I marked 3 balls for tournament play. Ball #1 fired right OB first hole. Ball #2 played as provisional. On hole #8 I duff a tee shot. As I'm walking to my where my ball is in the tall grass I come across a ball, I look at the ball and it's my ball. I'm positive it's my ball. I hit it and continue walking to meet my playing partners. I come across a ball where I thought my ball should have been and sure enough that's my ball too! I check it and it's got my marks. This is also my ball! I inform my playing partners and decide to proceed under rule 33 (play both and figure it out later.) After hitting the second ball and thinking about it I realize that someone must have found my first ball and either played it and somehow lost it where I found it or someone picked up my ball from the street, drove around to the other side of the golf course and thrown it onto the course. I told my playing partners that one of these should have a scuff from hitting the street. I somehow managed to hit both balls within 2' of each other so we were all able to witness me checking both balls. Once I discovered the scuffed ball I took it out of play and continued with the original ball. Am I assessed a penalty for playing a wrong ball even though I positively identified the ball as mine? BTW it was raining which is why I duffed the tee shot and didn't take all day to examine the ball.
If I'm understanding correctly, it sounds like you are pretty confident that the scuffed ball you found on #8 was not the ball that you started #8 with? If that is the case, it would be the General Penalty for hitting a wrong ball and you must correct the mistake by playing the right ball, which you did (that was the second ball you found). Unfortunately, invoking 20.1 (33 is part of the old rules and no longer exists) wouldn't save you here as you must declare you are doing this before a stroke is made for the situation in question (you already hit the first ball you found and then declared to play two balls). Hope that helps??
@@JayRobertsGolf This was a few years ago before the big rules changes but I "positively identified" both balls as my own before making a stroke. I suppose I shouldn't have marked them both identically ... but what are the odds of the ball I lost on #1 showing up near my ball in play on #8. Crazy!
On the left side of our #5 we have a cart path that runs parallel to the fairway. On the left side of the cart path there are red stakes that go from tee to green. In some locations, there is not a 2 club length drop zone between the cart path and the red stakes. What is the proper procedure to follow
You take the Penalty Relief and go through that process as if the Path is not there. And then once you have done that, you would be entitled to the appropriate Free Relief from the Path, even if that means the Ball ends up between the Path and the PA. Remember PA Relief doesn't require your Stance to be outside the PA, just the Ball.
What if the stakes are so far apart that it doesn’t make sense to draw a line between stakes? For example, a cart path makes a semi circle around the back of a green complex. There are OB stakes that indicate that the far side of that cart path is intended to be out of bounds. However, the stakes are so far apart that by drawing a straight line between them, the line would jut across the cart path and a ball on the green-side of the path would appear to be OB, but it is clearly not the intention of the layout. There were no lines painted either so we had to rely on the stakes. Is there a different way to tell for something like this?
Jay, Weird scenario, penalty area borderlines out of bounds and you're not sure whether your ball came to rest in the penalty area or went out of bounds? By the way thanks for taking your time to use visuals to clearly explain these complicated rules of golf. 👍
Love your videos. Question: The course side of the line is used in both OB and Penalty, correct? But in OB if any part of the ball touches the course side of the line it is in bounds but with Penalty line if any part of the ball touches the course side edge of the line it is in the penalty area? Is that correct?
YES, to Both your Descriptions. OB gives more leeway over PA because PA still allows you to "Play the Ball as it lies" without Penalty, while OB is a "Dead Duck" and you must take "Stroke and Distance".
I understand why this is confusing to many golfers. For a ball to be out of bounds (white stakes) the entire ball must outside the leading edge line. BUT, for a ball to be in the penalty (red or yellow hazard) area, only a sliver of the ball needs to be past the leading edge line to be ruled as in the penalty area. So, the entire ball must be past the line for it to be out of bounds, but only a sliver to be in the penalty area.
My thought; after the last stake, you’re no longer out of bounds. On our course they clearly mark it with two stakes next to each other and one says “End OB”.
Rule Discussion Request: Relief from a drain in the fairway. When do you get relief? If the slope of the drain hole itself is very steep, if you stand in the hole, if the ground slopes adjacent to the hole are very steep, swing impeded, etc. Which of these matter? And please discuss, whether when taking relief you must take complete relief, and what does that constitute? Must I drop a club away? Can I drop a tenth of a club away? Thanks!
Does this same rule follow if you’re on a painted line for a penalty area? Ie, if your ball is half in, half out of a penalty area but either you can hit it standing on a stake sprinkler head, could you take free relief?
I have a rules request please. Can you please explain the rule for when you swing at the tee block and your ball is knocked off the tee but remains within the tee block, as far as re-teeing and what penalty applies? Thank you
IF you had made an Intentional Swing and the Ball came to rest inside the Designated Teeing Area (Between the 2 Markers and 2 Club Lengths back) - you may play it as it lies, OR Retee the Ball anywhere inside the Teeing Area to play your SECOND Stroke. There is NO Penalty here. This remains true even if the Ball Flys off, hits something and were to ricochet back inside the Teeing Area.
Rule question: Recently played a round where a player’s ball faded right across a cart path and came to rest in high rough and grass that lined the edge of the cart path for practically the whole hole. In order for the player to play the ball where it lied, the player had to stand on the cart path. There were no stakes and no true area of relief from where the ball rested and the cart path. What are the player’s options and would those options involve relief without a penalty stoke assessed?
question: my ball was in bounds, by a half a ball... there was a 4 inch metal flowerbed container on the ground , out of bounds, that was obstructing my swing. Since my ball was in bounds, and the metal flowerbed container was not an out of bounds marker, do I get free relief, since it's a immovable object that's impeading my swing? If so, what type of relief do I get? One club length no closer to the hole?
So a course I play has interior OB stakes that run between a practice area and a hole. The stakes are on the left side of a hole that plays basically west to east. The next hole plays south to north. So the OB stakes effectively “tee” into the next hole. So the question is, at the last OB stake, where does the OB end? Perpendicular to the last stake? A line between the stake and the hole?
what if a white stake is missing and they are 40 yds apart is it the same Line, im sure im not allowed to retrieve fallen stakes and replace them where i think they should go if my ball is involved.
Does a ball go out of bounds in flight or at rest? Our course has OB markers on the right for the first ~200 yards, but after that everything is in play. If you take the OB line and extend a plane vertically, people would often slice through the OB plane, but when their ball comes to rest, the ball is in bounds. In that situation, can a player continue to play their ball without penalty?
When ball is on a road defined as OB, I hit a provisional and when I walk to OB i find my ball in the road. What is the rule now 1. Penalty, what happens to oriv ball, how do I hit my original ball and from where
Can you stand out of bounce and play a ball that is in bounce?. ( Big dust up for me because I shot the ball perfectly (onto green from 170 yards blind ) and my opponent claimed it was legally incorrect shot! ) It was terrain like you showed.
Completely allowed! When it comes to OB, it only matters where the ball is (in or out). As long as it's in, there is no problem with standing out of bounds to make your stroke. Nice shot!
Uhhhhh, sooooo, you look down at the ball square vertical above it? (I.e. to determine if part of the ball touches or lays over the course-side edge of the ground level line between OB stakes.) Also, what about a chain link OB dense? Is it the chain link part of the fence or the fence posts you go by? (Sometimes the fence posts are painted white and sometimes nothing is painted.)
It depends. When OB is defined by physical structures other than stakes or lines (like fences, walls, etc.), the Committee should define where the boundary is (i.e. the course-side edge of fence posts)
Now if you have white stakes placed on top of white lines but the stakes course side do not exactly line up with the white line then the ball is in play if the ball is within the boundary line of the course edge of the stakes even if the entire ball is on the white line?
When a course uses both painted lines and stakes, the painted line is what defines the boundary. The stakes are used to simply show where the boundary is but they serve no other meaning (although they are still boundary objects that must not be moved).
I played recently with someone who took their ball from OB and moved it laterally until it was inbounds. They said that they were taking a two stroke penalty to speed up play (instead of going back to hit the original shot over). Is that really an option?
There is a fairly new Model Local Rule that allows a 2 Stroke Penalty Drop for either OB or a Lost Ball. However, this must be determined and approved of by the Course/Club you are playing that day. This isn't a General Rule that a Player can use anytime he wishes to. This MLR is a substitute for the Provisional Ball that should have been played when there was suspicion as to the outcome of the Original Ball.
Rules question: in 1999 a bunch of people move a big boulder for Tiger Woods. I thought they changed this rule the year after to say the player must move objects themselves. Who can be involved in moving things like big boulders when interfering with a swing?
In stroke Play, on the putting green, after marking my ball, I had to move it sideways on putter lengts. Then I forgot to move it back, made my stroke and holed it for a par. What is the ruling?
I've got one for you: If you hit a ball and choose to make it 'unplayable', can you change the ball? I.e. I shoot a Titlist ProV1 down the left side of the fairway. When I get there it is right under a root and I don't feel I'd have a decent shot at the ball. I choose to call it unplayable, and can drop the ball within the rules. However, I see that the next shot is over a lake and I don't want to risk my brand new ProV1, so I'd like to change to a ball I'm more happy with losing. Can I change the ball? I know in most instances you can't, but since you've picked up the ball (and taken the penalty in doing so) are you permitted to now change the ball?
I'm covering unplayable ball soon but won't address this situation. As soon as you have completed taking relief for an unplayable ball (by correctly dropping the ball in the relief area and it coming to rest in the relief area), the ball is now in play so you wouldn't be permitted to substitute the ball for a 'water ball'. If you did, you would get the general penalty (2 strokes in stroke play, loss of hole in match play) for incorrectly substituting a ball.🙁 hope that helps!
@@Raven.flight Oh yes of course! Whenever you take relief (either penalty or free relief), you are allowed to substitute the ball. Rule 19.2 Sorry, I thought you were asking about after you've dropped the ball and then realized you had to carry water, could you then substitute the ball since you've already gotten a penalty for taking relief.
Question, I was under the assumption you had to play the “same brand/model” ball throughout. So, dropping a “water ball” really doesn’t apply?? Or, do I have that wrong?
@@Dbell12221 you have it wrong. However, you (technically) do need to tell your partner you are changing balls to avoid being accused of hitting the wrong ball.
Our club has ob stakes on the corner of a dog leg. Also, it has a local rule that if the ball travels outside the ob line while in mid flight, it is declared ob, even if it lands and comes to rest in bounds. This rule kept my partner and I from winning the overall member/member award. What say you?
Internal OB is usually a Safety Issue when applied on a Dogleg Hole to protect either others ahead and/or those adjacent to the Hole in question. The point is to prevent the attempt in the first place, so a published Local Rule is legitimate.
It sure can. It's not very common, at least in my experience, but there isn't anything that says it can't be out of bounds. Most courses would typically treat natural water courses as penalty areas but they could make it out of bounds if they wanted to.
@@JayRobertsGolf We have a couple of those where I live. The reasoning has been that those water areas are outside of the course area, meaning someone else owns them. The same reason applies to some wooded areas (some of those wouldn't even be hard to continue play from). Not the course property -> OB.
@@Garbox80 I agree with that. Non golf course property would surely be designated OB. Courses can also designated areas OB that they still own though which is what I thought the OP was asking about.
It can be tough to see sometimes. The stakes should be positioned in a place where you see one stake to the other so you can visualize the line. And if it's really close, a Rules Official will bust out the dental floss as was seen recently on tour
Just a demonstration. Committee procedure recommends stakes should be no farther than 30 paces apart and in places not obscured by trees or bushes so players can easily see between them
@@denisjl100 of course, that's why they cut us a little slack with the OB Line contact. But in Golf (with OB Lines) "touching any part of the line" ISN'T good enough. A portion of the Ball must be in contact with the Course, or at leasr be Overhanging the Course to still be inplay. *As of 2019, lightly Grounding your Club In a Penalty Area IS Permissible.*
And there is the Difference between WHITE OB Lines and RED/YELLOW Penalty Area Lines. Sitting on a White OB Line, as long as the smallest portion of the Ball is still In Play, the Ball is NOT OB. ANY Part of a Ball in Contact with a RED/YELLOW LINE and this includes OVERHANGING the Line means the Ball is in the Penalty Area. An OB Ball CANNOT be played as it lies, while a Ball in a Penalty Area CAN be played as it lies.
@@TwitchingHour IF any part of your Ball is touching a RED / YELLOW Line, officially you are IN the Penalty Area. One of your legal Options is to "play the Ball as It Lies," this saves you from Taking a Penalty Stroke. So if your First Stroke from the Tee ended On the Line, you are only playing your Second Stroke. If you choose Any of your Relief Options - taking a Drop - you're "Hitting 3".
@@TwitchingHour Yes, red/yellow penalty areas are different than OB. If any part of the ball is touching the red/yellow line, the ball is considered in the penalty area. You can still play it as it lies no problem. You can also ground your club and remove loose impediments. No Penalty, you are lying 1 and hitting 2! 👍
@@JayRobertsGolf Jeff asked IF *"it was his Tee Shot* that ended up On The Line", then he would only Lie 1, Hitting 2, since No Penalty Stroke "playing It as It lies."
@@JayRobertsGolf Yep, upset one of my playing partners in a comp when he was about to lift and drop his ball from a boundary fence, had the usual 'are you sure' response and 'I have never done this before'. Luckily passing my EGU rules exam helped !!
@@martinberry1540 Another rules guy! Love it! I actually just took my exam with the USGA on Tuesday. I passed at expert level! 7 months of studying and working through mind-melting golf scenarios paid off! lol. Thanks for being part of the channel
More videos!!!! Love the content brother
Appreciate you my guy! Stay tuned, they are on the way! Thanks for the comment 👊🏽🙏🏼⛳️
This happened to me yesterday. Nobody knew the rule. I played two balls on the hole. We later determined what you said. Thanks for the confirmation.
Brilliantly explained, as ever Jay. You make understanding the rules so much easier. Thanks again.
That sure means a lot. Thanks Andy, I appreciate you!
Love love love your videos brother. My daughter is a top junior golfer in AZ and these videos definitely help me when caddying for her in her tourneys. Please keep them coming.
That is just awesome. It gives me great joy that you feel that way. And what a great dad! Reminds me of my dad. She and I are very lucky. I wish you and her the very best. Stay tuned! I have several good ones coming that I'm excited about! But in the meantime, any specific rule/scenario you would like to see?!?!
@@JayRobertsGolf thanks buddy, much appreciated. Its the best part of my day being on the bag for her watching her crush a drive or wedge one in a few inches from the cup. I love the “not so common” scenarios like the video you did when the ball comes to rest on a rake. Honestly I have learned more from watching your videos than reading the USGA rules book twice over. I really hope you get a very strong subscriber base- you deserve it my friend. I have told all my friends and co workers about your channel. Keep up the great work!
That means the world to me. Appreciate the support man. And I’m giving it right back to you, helping The Caddie protect his daughter’s scorecard! Enjoy the journey with her. One shot at a time. You may see a caddie video soon
id expand upon the stakes for ob just a little because many people dont know that only upright stakes can be used as markers. for example point C is directly on your side and is a ob pylon...point B is 5ft forward and 5ft right and is also an ob pylon...point A is directly in line with C but 10ft forward. if point B pylon is laying down it is no longer a valid marker and the new ob line runs from C to A instead of C to B to A...if your ball is in the triangular area created by C, B, A but B is down your ruled Out
Love these Vids. Quick, simple easy to understand no padding. Thanks Jay.
Glad you like them, John. I really appreciate the comment!
I've been playing golf for a little over 1 season now and I don't know the more technical rules like this so I appreciate the content brotha, great explanation.
Another very well explained vlog with practical example. Thanks mate
Thanks for the comment, Edwin 👊🏽⛳️
You the man! Well done. Beautifully explained in detail. You’re doing gods work
Thanks for the comment!
Hi Jay, really like your vlogs about golf rules. You've made them so accessible! I would love one on the question, "is a provisional / second ball my only option if I hit O.B. from the tee? and if not how many shots will i be counting?"
Hey David! Really appreciate the comment. I've gotten some requests about stroke and distance so it may be time to make one. If you hit your ball OB, the only option is to take stroke and distance by either continuing play with the provisional or going back to where you last played to play again. You would be lying 3 and hitting 4 with your provisional (first stroke out of bounds, second stroke applied as penalty, 3rd stroke made from teeing area).
That being said, there is a semi-popular new local rule that allows the player to drop within 2 club-lengths of the fairway at a spot no closer to the hole than where the ball last crossed the edge of the boundary line. But the drop is 2 penalty strokes. You'd still be lying 3 and hitting 4. This local rule is ok for general play but not recommended for competitive events. Hope that helps!
Great, clear, well done!
Hi Jay, great videos , short and clear. There is one scenario that I would like to run by you.
let's say that after a round of golf we realised that one of the golfers hit their ball on one the holes, that was in fact a wrong ball, OB and the ball hit was past the white sticks. what happens here as it's post match and during in play non of 4 ball realised or call it out.
Best video I have ever seen explaining OB!
Second best. Judge Smails in Caddyshack does it best. If you can, kick it back in play when no one is watching.
The problem with the OB ruling is not so much a golfer's understanding (although that often leaves a lot to be desired) but frequently the state of maintenance of the boundary markers.
When they are wooden, they can rot and fail. These are not replaced in a timely manner, so the boundary appears to be along the line of remaining posts. Sometimes that is the only way to proceed with them, rather than endless discussions as to where the missing post used to be (worst of all when it's the last post in a finite boundary line)! Then we get posts the other side of bushes and trees because they haven't been trimmed (as we can see in the background here). Trying to determine a precise line to verify whether any part of the ball is still in bounds is nigh-on impossible.
An easy rule, often made ridiculous.
Jay, these are the best rules videos!! ty
Thanks a ton, Rusty!!! Love the comments
had many conversations about this, which is really simple to understand b ut everyone seems to have a different opinion about. What I like about your videos is that you give terminology that I can remember to use in such conversations ... such as 'Course side edge at ground level' :D
Thank you kindly! Word choice is important within the rules so I'm very deliberate about using the right terminology 😁 you throw out something like "course side edge at ground level" to your buddies and I'm sure you'll make a believer out of them lol
@@JayRobertsGolf ... we know a song about that ;)
I don’t know if you already have a video on it, but what happens if a ball is moved by an outside force before coming to rest? For example, an animal grabs a ball while it’s still rolling, a fan catches it in flight and then either drops it or walks away with it, etc.
Good stuff Soxx!
So so helpful. Thank you.
I was lining the course the other week and thought about this. Low and behold one of the players ended up on the line!
I got one for you. I marked 3 balls for tournament play. Ball #1 fired right OB first hole. Ball #2 played as provisional. On hole #8 I duff a tee shot. As I'm walking to my where my ball is in the tall grass I come across a ball, I look at the ball and it's my ball. I'm positive it's my ball. I hit it and continue walking to meet my playing partners. I come across a ball where I thought my ball should have been and sure enough that's my ball too! I check it and it's got my marks. This is also my ball! I inform my playing partners and decide to proceed under rule 33 (play both and figure it out later.) After hitting the second ball and thinking about it I realize that someone must have found my first ball and either played it and somehow lost it where I found it or someone picked up my ball from the street, drove around to the other side of the golf course and thrown it onto the course. I told my playing partners that one of these should have a scuff from hitting the street. I somehow managed to hit both balls within 2' of each other so we were all able to witness me checking both balls. Once I discovered the scuffed ball I took it out of play and continued with the original ball.
Am I assessed a penalty for playing a wrong ball even though I positively identified the ball as mine? BTW it was raining which is why I duffed the tee shot and didn't take all day to examine the ball.
If I'm understanding correctly, it sounds like you are pretty confident that the scuffed ball you found on #8 was not the ball that you started #8 with? If that is the case, it would be the General Penalty for hitting a wrong ball and you must correct the mistake by playing the right ball, which you did (that was the second ball you found). Unfortunately, invoking 20.1 (33 is part of the old rules and no longer exists) wouldn't save you here as you must declare you are doing this before a stroke is made for the situation in question (you already hit the first ball you found and then declared to play two balls). Hope that helps??
@@JayRobertsGolf This was a few years ago before the big rules changes but I "positively identified" both balls as my own before making a stroke. I suppose I shouldn't have marked them both identically ... but what are the odds of the ball I lost on #1 showing up near my ball in play on #8. Crazy!
On the left side of our #5 we have a cart path that runs parallel to the fairway. On the left side of the cart path there are red stakes that go from tee to green. In some locations, there is not a 2 club length drop zone between the cart path and the red stakes. What is the proper procedure to follow
You take the Penalty Relief and go through that process as if the Path is not there.
And then once you have done that, you would be entitled to the appropriate Free Relief from the Path, even if that means the Ball ends up between the Path and the PA.
Remember PA Relief doesn't require your Stance to be outside the PA, just the Ball.
What if the stakes are so far apart that it doesn’t make sense to draw a line between stakes? For example, a cart path makes a semi circle around the back of a green complex. There are OB stakes that indicate that the far side of that cart path is intended to be out of bounds. However, the stakes are so far apart that by drawing a straight line between them, the line would jut across the cart path and a ball on the green-side of the path would appear to be OB, but it is clearly not the intention of the layout. There were no lines painted either so we had to rely on the stakes. Is there a different way to tell for something like this?
Jay, Weird scenario, penalty area borderlines out of bounds and you're not sure whether your ball came to rest in the penalty area or went out of bounds? By the way thanks for taking your time to use visuals to clearly explain these complicated rules of golf. 👍
Love your videos. Question: The course side of the line is used in both OB and Penalty, correct? But in OB if any part of the ball touches the course side of the line it is in bounds but with Penalty line if any part of the ball touches the course side edge of the line it is in the penalty area? Is that correct?
YES, to Both your Descriptions.
OB gives more leeway over PA because PA still allows you to "Play the Ball as it lies" without Penalty, while OB is a "Dead Duck" and you must take "Stroke and Distance".
I understand why this is confusing to many golfers. For a ball to be out of bounds (white stakes) the entire ball must outside the leading edge line. BUT, for a ball to be in the penalty (red or yellow hazard) area, only a sliver of the ball needs to be past the leading edge line to be ruled as in the penalty area. So, the entire ball must be past the line for it to be out of bounds, but only a sliver to be in the penalty area.
Nailed it!
Hi Jay, what if there isn't stakes on both sides of the ball? Example, two or more stakes defining OB but not continuing.
My thought; after the last stake, you’re no longer out of bounds. On our course they clearly mark it with two stakes next to each other and one says “End OB”.
Rule Discussion Request: Relief from a drain in the fairway. When do you get relief? If the slope of the drain hole itself is very steep, if you stand in the hole, if the ground slopes adjacent to the hole are very steep, swing impeded, etc. Which of these matter? And please discuss, whether when taking relief you must take complete relief, and what does that constitute? Must I drop a club away? Can I drop a tenth of a club away? Thanks!
Does this same rule follow if you’re on a painted line for a penalty area? Ie, if your ball is half in, half out of a penalty area but either you can hit it standing on a stake sprinkler head, could you take free relief?
I have a rules request please. Can you please explain the rule for when you swing at the tee block and your ball is knocked off the tee but remains within the tee block, as far as re-teeing and what penalty applies? Thank you
IF you had made an Intentional Swing and the Ball came to rest inside the Designated Teeing Area (Between the 2 Markers and 2 Club Lengths back) - you may play it as it lies, OR Retee the Ball anywhere inside the Teeing Area to play your SECOND Stroke. There is NO Penalty here.
This remains true even if the Ball Flys off, hits something and were to ricochet back inside the Teeing Area.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 thank you. That’s a great help
Rule question:
Recently played a round where a player’s ball faded right across a cart path and came to rest in high rough and grass that lined the edge of the cart path for practically the whole hole. In order for the player to play the ball where it lied, the player had to stand on the cart path. There were no stakes and no true area of relief from where the ball rested and the cart path.
What are the player’s options and would those options involve relief without a penalty stoke assessed?
A good thing to remember is that the stakes or lines themselves are out of bounds. That’s why we use the edge that is closest to the course.
question: my ball was in bounds, by a half a ball... there was a 4 inch metal flowerbed container on the ground , out of bounds, that was obstructing my swing. Since my ball was in bounds, and the metal flowerbed container was not an out of bounds marker, do I get free relief, since it's a immovable object that's impeading my swing? If so, what type of relief do I get? One club length no closer to the hole?
So a course I play has interior OB stakes that run between a practice area and a hole. The stakes are on the left side of a hole that plays basically west to east. The next hole plays south to north. So the OB stakes effectively “tee” into the next hole. So the question is, at the last OB stake, where does the OB end? Perpendicular to the last stake? A line between the stake and the hole?
Excellent content!
Glad you like it! Thanks so much!
clear thanks
Great content
what if a white stake is missing and they are 40 yds apart is it the same Line, im sure im not allowed to retrieve fallen stakes and replace them where i think they should go if my ball is involved.
What happens if you are short of the last boundery marker?
Does a ball go out of bounds in flight or at rest?
Our course has OB markers on the right for the first ~200 yards, but after that everything is in play. If you take the OB line and extend a plane vertically, people would often slice through the OB plane, but when their ball comes to rest, the ball is in bounds. In that situation, can a player continue to play their ball without penalty?
When ball is on a road defined as OB, I hit a provisional and when I walk to OB i find my ball in the road. What is the rule now 1. Penalty, what happens to oriv ball, how do I hit my original ball and from where
You pick up the Ball (OB on the road), put it in your pocket, and go play on with the Second Ball that was your Provisional.
Can you stand out of bounce and play a ball that is in bounce?. ( Big dust up for me because I shot the ball perfectly (onto green from 170 yards blind ) and my opponent claimed it was legally incorrect shot! ) It was terrain like you showed.
Completely allowed! When it comes to OB, it only matters where the ball is (in or out). As long as it's in, there is no problem with standing out of bounds to make your stroke. Nice shot!
@@JayRobertsGolf TY.
Uhhhhh, sooooo, you look down at the ball square vertical above it? (I.e. to determine if part of the ball touches or lays over the course-side edge of the ground level line between OB stakes.)
Also, what about a chain link OB dense? Is it the chain link part of the fence or the fence posts you go by? (Sometimes the fence posts are painted white and sometimes nothing is painted.)
It depends. When OB is defined by physical structures other than stakes or lines (like fences, walls, etc.), the Committee should define where the boundary is (i.e. the course-side edge of fence posts)
Now if you have white stakes placed on top of white lines but the stakes course side do not exactly line up with the white line then the ball is in play if the ball is within the boundary line of the course edge of the stakes even if the entire ball is on the white line?
When a course uses both painted lines and stakes, the painted line is what defines the boundary. The stakes are used to simply show where the boundary is but they serve no other meaning (although they are still boundary objects that must not be moved).
I played recently with someone who took their ball from OB and moved it laterally until it was inbounds. They said that they were taking a two stroke penalty to speed up play (instead of going back to hit the original shot over). Is that really an option?
There is a fairly new Model Local Rule that allows a 2 Stroke Penalty Drop for either OB or a Lost Ball.
However, this must be determined and approved of by the Course/Club you are playing that day.
This isn't a General Rule that a Player can use anytime he wishes to.
This MLR is a substitute for the Provisional Ball that should have been played when there was suspicion as to the outcome of the Original Ball.
Well done.
Thanks, Eric. Appreciate you!
Rules question: in 1999 a bunch of people move a big boulder for Tiger Woods. I thought they changed this rule the year after to say the player must move objects themselves. Who can be involved in moving things like big boulders when interfering with a swing?
In stroke Play, on the putting green, after marking my ball, I had to move it sideways on putter lengts. Then I forgot to move it back, made my stroke and holed it for a par. What is the ruling?
Sorry, you played from the "Wrong Place". 2 Stroke Penalty needed to be added to your Score on the Hole.
Damnit Jay Roberts! Can’t you answer every one of these redundant golf rules questions that are detailed and easily searched for online?
If on a cart path and nearest point of relief is near an out of bound fence. Let’s say 3 feet from the path?
I've got one for you:
If you hit a ball and choose to make it 'unplayable', can you change the ball?
I.e. I shoot a Titlist ProV1 down the left side of the fairway. When I get there it is right under a root and I don't feel I'd have a decent shot at the ball. I choose to call it unplayable, and can drop the ball within the rules. However, I see that the next shot is over a lake and I don't want to risk my brand new ProV1, so I'd like to change to a ball I'm more happy with losing.
Can I change the ball?
I know in most instances you can't, but since you've picked up the ball (and taken the penalty in doing so) are you permitted to now change the ball?
I'm covering unplayable ball soon but won't address this situation. As soon as you have completed taking relief for an unplayable ball (by correctly dropping the ball in the relief area and it coming to rest in the relief area), the ball is now in play so you wouldn't be permitted to substitute the ball for a 'water ball'. If you did, you would get the general penalty (2 strokes in stroke play, loss of hole in match play) for incorrectly substituting a ball.🙁 hope that helps!
@@JayRobertsGolf but when you pick it up, before you drop it, you could change it, right? Not sure of the rule number, I’ve heard conflicting answers.
@@Raven.flight Oh yes of course! Whenever you take relief (either penalty or free relief), you are allowed to substitute the ball. Rule 19.2
Sorry, I thought you were asking about after you've dropped the ball and then realized you had to carry water, could you then substitute the ball since you've already gotten a penalty for taking relief.
Question, I was under the assumption you had to play the “same brand/model” ball throughout. So, dropping a “water ball” really doesn’t apply?? Or, do I have that wrong?
@@Dbell12221 you have it wrong. However, you (technically) do need to tell your partner you are changing balls to avoid being accused of hitting the wrong ball.
Our club has ob stakes on the corner of a dog leg. Also, it has a local rule that if the ball travels outside the ob line while in mid flight, it is declared ob, even if it lands and comes to rest in bounds. This rule kept my partner and I from winning the overall member/member award. What say you?
Internal OB is usually a Safety Issue when applied on a Dogleg Hole to protect either others ahead and/or those adjacent to the Hole in question.
The point is to prevent the attempt in the first place, so a published Local Rule is legitimate.
Can a natural water course ie a burn be out of bounds?
It sure can. It's not very common, at least in my experience, but there isn't anything that says it can't be out of bounds. Most courses would typically treat natural water courses as penalty areas but they could make it out of bounds if they wanted to.
@@JayRobertsGolf We have a couple of those where I live. The reasoning has been that those water areas are outside of the course area, meaning someone else owns them. The same reason applies to some wooded areas (some of those wouldn't even be hard to continue play from). Not the course property -> OB.
@@Garbox80 I agree with that. Non golf course property would surely be designated OB. Courses can also designated areas OB that they still own though which is what I thought the OP was asking about.
hard to to see OB sometimes when there not in a straight line and one white post is like 15 feet to the right of the other one
It can be tough to see sometimes. The stakes should be positioned in a place where you see one stake to the other so you can visualize the line. And if it's really close, a Rules Official will bust out the dental floss as was seen recently on tour
If I Play my ball over water to green and it spins back to the water, where shall I drop the ball?
if it's in what do I do ? if it's out what do I do?
If my ball lies adjacent to a staked tree, may i take relief either side of the staked tree
Solution: hit shorter distances that go straight not longer distances with more variability that gets you into this predicament in the first place.
Stakes are rarely that close together. Usually they're like 100' apart. Good luck.
Just a demonstration. Committee procedure recommends stakes should be no farther than 30 paces apart and in places not obscured by trees or bushes so players can easily see between them
👍
like tennis!! if any part of the ball touches the line it is in!
True with OB, however a Ball touching a RED/YELLOW Penalty Area Line means the Ball is IN the PA.
@@apaulmcdonough2170 yeah but a ball in a penalty area can be played if you chose. you can't ground your club but you can play it.
@@denisjl100 of course, that's why they cut us a little slack with the OB Line contact. But in Golf (with OB Lines) "touching any part of the line" ISN'T good enough.
A portion of the Ball must be in contact with the Course, or at leasr be Overhanging the Course to still be inplay.
*As of 2019, lightly Grounding your Club In a Penalty Area IS Permissible.*
@@denisjl100 You can now ground your club in a penalty area, remove loose impediments, and can even take a practice swing in it! Rule 17.
I just move the stakes over.
According to MY rules if i go out of bounds i drop 3 balls (back in bounds) and play best ball out of the 3. No penalty.
If I can hit it... it's not out of bounds. Unless you're in a tournament or playing for money. Ha
Be a man - play by the rules - take the pain - its part of the game - don’t cheat
It sure moved about an inch or so at the bottom which means a lot
It sure does. Did you see the Rules Official bust out the dental floss on tour a few weeks ago to determine the line??
Stroke and distance penalties are excessively punitive. You should not lose the distance and be able to just drop like any other hazard.
Hit the fairway. Keep it in play. Let’s not lower the rim for the players that don’t want to improve.
Use a laser
And there is the Difference between WHITE OB Lines and RED/YELLOW Penalty Area Lines.
Sitting on a White OB Line, as long as the smallest portion of the Ball is still In Play, the Ball is NOT OB.
ANY Part of a Ball in Contact with a RED/YELLOW LINE and this includes OVERHANGING the Line means the Ball is in the Penalty Area.
An OB Ball CANNOT be played as it lies, while a Ball in a Penalty Area CAN be played as it lies.
You got it!!
So if my tee shot comes to rest on a red/yellow line, and I play it as it lies, am I laying 2 and hitting 3? Or is it something else?
@@TwitchingHour IF any part of your Ball is touching a RED / YELLOW Line, officially you are IN the Penalty Area.
One of your legal Options is to "play the Ball as It Lies," this saves you from Taking a Penalty Stroke. So if your First Stroke from the Tee ended On the Line, you are only playing your Second Stroke.
If you choose Any of your Relief Options - taking a Drop - you're "Hitting 3".
@@TwitchingHour Yes, red/yellow penalty areas are different than OB. If any part of the ball is touching the red/yellow line, the ball is considered in the penalty area. You can still play it as it lies no problem. You can also ground your club and remove loose impediments. No Penalty, you are lying 1 and hitting 2! 👍
@@JayRobertsGolf Jeff asked IF *"it was his Tee Shot* that ended up On The Line", then he would only Lie 1, Hitting 2, since No Penalty Stroke "playing It as It lies."
and you do not get relief from out of bounds stakes or fences etc.
That is correct. No relief from "Boundary Objects' (objects used to define out of bounds). They are to be treated as immovable
@@JayRobertsGolf Yep, upset one of my playing partners in a comp when he was about to lift and drop his ball from a boundary fence, had the usual 'are you sure' response and 'I have never done this before'. Luckily passing my EGU rules exam helped !!
@@martinberry1540 Another rules guy! Love it! I actually just took my exam with the USGA on Tuesday. I passed at expert level! 7 months of studying and working through mind-melting golf scenarios paid off! lol. Thanks for being part of the channel
Only "Unplayable Ball" Penalty Relief.
Dumb rule should be able to play it where it lies regardless
If in doubt, hack it out.
One of the worst rules of golf players should always have an option to play it wear it lies.🤮
OB means you are no longer on the Course that you are supposed to be playing.