Carcetti's a great character because he's not evil. Just blinded by ambition. He can do good as a councilman, but convinces himself he can be more effective as mayor. And he could do good as mayor, but couldn't he do so much more as governor? It's this little trade-offs that politicians make for their ambition that chip away at their idealism till they become corrupt husks. What makes this series great is that it stops before he ends up fully corrupt, but you know exactly where he's going.
The great thing about the wire is that most of the characters are not just “good” or “evil” they are looking out for themselves which in someways is what we all do
Lol if you remember correctly, Carcetti actually thought Colvin's idea was a good idea. But when he told that to his political advisor chick, she said "you're just getting started and you're acting like you forget how to play", meaning that he had to put his personal convictions aside and use it as a political tool to score points for his career... yes, that is how politicians minds work. They are all careerists.
Its the ultimate Catch-22. You have to be a careerist in order to accumulate the power you need to make changes. But in order to be a careerist, you have to tread so carefully as to not change anything. Parties don't help either. In the UK, a politician may know full well what the problem is in their area of responsibility, but if the solution to that problem falls outside the party's stated ethos or narrative, that's that. They either compromise on what needs to be done, or they lose their standing in the party. They're not leaders anymore.
@@mrcrackdonald_1 yeah the first four were awesome with a breadth probably even greater than the Wire (it takes an entire fictional planet with thousands of years of history to challenge the Wire's breadth lol), but they made omissions in adaptation that screwed them later on. Then they totally botched adaptation in season 5, then they ran out of book material and both the breadth and depth dropped precipitously over the last 3 seasons as the writers could only write blockbuster horseshit instead of "all the pieces matter" slow burns that made the books and show so gratifying in the first place. Every character became stupid and all but like 3 or 4 locations were completely forgotten about by season 8 with all logic and rules of the world thrown out the window. First half great storytelling and dialogue, second half cool cgi but abysmal storytelling and dialogue
this is the type of speech that gets you elected into public office, not the type of speech that points out what we need to do to actually solve public issues
Man was trying to do as much good as he could against a corrupt system that stomps out any change from its exploitative and corrupt ways. Sure it had its flaws but it managed to make the city MUCH safer, less hostile, and even led to the current drug addicts getting better medical care. And all of this gets stomped out to go back to the far worse status quo and he gets vilified by the public. Shame cause Bunny was the character I was by far routing for the most.
O’Malley’s tenure was as destructive a mayoralty to causes of crime and punishment as Baltimore has ever seen and, by that standard, Tommy Carcetti makes him look good.” - David Simon Needless to say, all of this is disputed by O’Malley insiders, who brag that, during his tenure, violent crime in Baltimore was cut by nearly 40 percent, down to its lowest levels in decades. Carcetti juked the stats. He says O'Malley did too.
did carcetti juke the stats I remember him firing the commish for bringing him juked stats... he said he has to give him a pass if they tell the truth... and yes carcetti makes omalley look gr8! but it is crazy that o'malley became mayor of baltimore and got re elected
I was a prosecutor in Baltimore during the O'Malley administration and believe me, his administration did virtually nothing to actively reduce crime. He promised an increase in arrests, which did happen, but a large percentage of the arrests were blatantly unconstitutional and lacking of probable cause or real evidence to support the arrest. As a result, we at the State's Attorney's office had to decline to prosecute a huge percentage of the cases brought to us. So arrests during the O'Malley tenure increased, but prosecutions and convictions fell. It was a mess.
I couldn't agree more. The first time you watch this scene, you are very tempted to get caught up in the passion. But after watching the wire a few more times, you realize how speeches like this do more harm then good long term.
Drugsanddragonslul like the guy that commented before you said, the first time you get caught up in the rhetoric and believe that maybe this time this particular politician can make a difference, after watching the whole series you realize that it's nothing more than politicial rhetoric that you heard 1000 times before and nothing ever gets done
@Jared Dowty "This defeat cannot and will not be forgiven." Yeah. Twists and turns and cul-de-sacs of words, all meaning absolutely nothing. Couldn't agree more.
@@Gryffilion We need progressive populists willing to say the unpopular thing as directly as fascist populists have been for the past 10-15 years worldwide. Duterte, Bolsonaro, Erdogan and even Orange Foolius titillate their countrymen's worst tendencies toward racism, sexism, homophobia and ultranationalism but the lives of the working poodle that voted for them have not gotten materially better. People will still resort to crime when education fails to prepare them good opportunities in the legit world. Some give up and simply want to escape that reality so they turn to using, instead of selling, those same hard narcotics. He gives that speech about how "we" are all at fault and have to hold our leaders to account but makes no specific proposals to reform a racist law enforcement apparatus, labor laws, unions or education. All this shit affects the entire working class! He blames no branch of local or state government for any of its economic or drug policies, which tend to benefit the already-haves, but he says it all like he really cares...and we applaud! But this is politics 101, isn't it? Get their votes, then give them the bare minimum! Get your campaign domains from the rich, get re-elected! Applause.
Jesus, that speech was so good that even I was sucked in by Carcetti's promises the first time I watched this. Later realising that this speech isn't going to change shit, I was shocked.
Wrong way round. Littlefinger is carcetti. 1-he was carcetti first. And 2, little finger is end of the carcetti storyline. He might have cared about others once. Now he just wants to keep climbing that ladder.
I agree this is one of the most important scenes in this season of the Wire. Carcetti, dubious otherwise, tells his audience that it's forgiveable that Colvin tried and failed; however, in face of defeat it's unforgiveable playing blame games and politics instead of each individual stepping up to drive change. This is a moral statement in line with "when good men do nothing" as well as a development in Carcetti's character portrayed by his self-contradiction and mute delivery of the speech.
i loved the wire and tommy carcetti was my favourite character, not because i agree with him but because he actually does what every politican do, and in fact, on the highest level. a really good example which reflect how the things happen in the real life. he semi-believed the things he spoke when he was a conceullor, and then he just.. transformed, swam with the tides. advance in his carrier became more important than what he spoke of. excellent actor play and story writing.
@@Blue_124th The man actually sleeps under a bridge and under that bridge is a rock and under that rock is a sloth shelled creature known as bigstar66 that is likely too lazy to write any form of a coherent response. So I'm sorry to say but its unlikely you'll receive a real answer for his opinion.
When I first saw this scene I was like 'This guys great!' And then sat back and thought about it, as soon as he uses the word war you know it's actually fucked up. It's escalation; as they show in various parts of the show, for every weapon the system wields, there is another that the criminals can invent, and the worse the problem gets.
@Omnipresent One What a moronic reply to an innocuous comment. His accent is passable. If we're going to crucify the guy for not sounding like he grew up on street X we might as well never make another film or tv show again
Sean LaBua he does a convinving GENERAL American accent (I did catch him slipping in some episodes... the word been and the word thousand revealed his Irish accent) but he does not sound like a Marylander.
Omnipresent One when I watched this show as it aired I had no idea he was Irish so I have no idea what you’re talking about. He does a flawless accent.
"You call something a war and pretty soon you're going to have everybody running around like warriors. They're going to be running around on a crusade, and when you're at war you need an enemy." - Bunny Colvin That was the real speech about drug enforcement that everyone besides Carver should have heard. Carcetti using war rhetoric at the end of his speech should have been the clue for everyone watching. We forget that Royce was actually in favor of the free zones once he understood how much good they were doing, Rawls' paranoia and greed is what sank it really. Royce actually showed that he was somewhat decent far more than everyone else. Notice that city hall or the council never held any meetings with the people that live their day to day in the city about how Colvin's actions affected them, how they felt about it. They just went on TV and said what they were expected to say. None of the people that go on these crusades live amongst this stuff. They all have inspired words about the city and its people, but the people made it clear. The dealers want to sell, the fiends want to buy, and the citizens would like to not have to sleep under their beds and avoid their own windows. "It's all in the game though." - Omar Little The political game is about image and perception. Whenever someone tried to do the right thing or go with the obvious solution, there was always those around them to stop or redirect them by pointing out why they can't do that. It'll piss off those few important people somewhere out there, that they need something from. They can't do what's right, they have to do what's established. In the game of politics and drugs the rules say you can't go your own way, their establishments won't stand for it. Anyone who's tried either lost their life or lost their soul. Funny enough the people who fell off one way or another were trying to make things better for all involved. With so many players, someone is worried about what they'll lose even when they have more than enough. Later on you really see key differences to the rules in how these two games are played. In drugs, if you're not actually a piece of shit you're weak. In politics everyone knows they're all pieces of shit, but to be seen as one makes you weak. What's weakness? Trying to do something good. Openning to this season made it clear how this was all going to go. The politicians took a problem they created and made it worse without any consideration of the aftermath.
Carcetti was never a bad guy. He always wanted to help. If it wasn't for that 54 million he had to pull out his out of nowhere because of the Royce administration, he could have done some real good.
@@MAMII-ks2qg Carcetti wasnt that naive. He was actually entertaining thought of a _"Hamsterdam"_ at first, until his political advisor warned him against it.
When ed burns said he "went all candide on myself," (see description) he is essentially saying how disappointed in the audience he is. How, despite spending all of season 3 showing how the war on drugs and tough on crime accomplished nothing, so many ppl still fell into carcettis speech and followed him ovr the cliff. He was disappointed in that so many ppl didnt get the message, that they were viewing the entire season and seeing why carcettis speech is actually calling for more harm, yet so many ppl just didnt pick that up and just followed him over the cliff...
I think people wanted to believe Carcetti was legit. I think even Carcetti wanted to believe he was legit. But the game is the game, and he was as doomed to corruption and failure as anyone and everyone. He was always self-serving -- it just took him awhile to honestly realize it, and the audience as well. That they still want to believe in him is merely human nature. Burns can be disappointed in that, but I can't imagine he's surprised.
1:20 "This is more than... whether someone can use this disaster to make a political point or two," he says, while use the disaster to make a political point. Classic politician
To think this guy is Irish in real... Any of you from Baltimore here? What's his accent like? I obviously can't judge but I can only assume he did a great job accent wise. A great actor also.
Putting on a Baltimore accent is difficult even for an American. I think he was just going for a flat general American accent, but he sounds more Philadelphian than Baltimorean.
No, I am not surprised. I know they can do accents... take Idris Elba (same show) for instance... I was just wondering how good (bad) his accent was...
I'm from D.C. Traditional Baltimore accents are extremely specific to the region, and rarely heard in U.S. mass media. Most of The Wire's non-local actors wisely didn't attempt to copy the dialect, but good examples of it can be heard in the speech of Robert Chew (Prop Joe), Felicia "Snoop" Pearson and Jay Landsman (Lieutenant Mello).
Ayyy, my man Aiden Gillen. He also played a drug kingpin in an Irish show called Love/Hate, worth looking into because the theme is fairly similar to what happens in The Wire.
I was a cop for a large police department in Los Angeles for 25+ years. I worked patrol, narcotics, vice, CRASH and various other assignments and details. Colvin's approach to an undying problem of epidemic proportions was classic. I think it was great. And I beliveve it would have positive results. Many years ago when I worked dope we were shoveling shit against the tide. In the 1980's CRASH was pretty much the same. Push them all in a corner and watch them closely. Harpon those that try to introduce more narcotics/violence. Just a thought.
+Joshua Carroll And O'Malley hates the Wire and David Simon to this day. Simon's hilarious - he won't directly say Carcetti is definitely O'Malley but "a composite of a few Baltimore politicians." Yet, if you read the realy stories, he can't be anyone else. Brilliant.
Great, another show to add to my watch list. From Stuart on Queer as Folk, to this, to Littlefinger... And Aidan is so soft spoken in real life, it's weird. Also, I don't know how to feel about him without the facial hair.
If you know someone who is involved in political action of any kind, and they watch this show and think they're supposed to sympathize with Carcetti, you know you are dealing with someone you can't trust. The first time I saw this scene, it was immediately obvious that he was a snake, and that his speech was puffed-up nonsense. We even know, when he's giving this speech, that he's in the process of deliberately fucking over his friend on City Council, who also intends to run against Mayor Royce. Let alone the fact that the content of the speech is asinine, and clearly contradicted by the facts on the ground that we've been shown for three seasons. Regular people who see this scene, and don't get it, can be forgiven for being a little slow. Politically active people who see it and sympathize with Carcetti -- well, you should probably watch your drink when your in the presence of people like that.
Actually, Carcetti was originally written in as an idealist who only later got corrupted by the political system. He meant everything he said before becoming mayor.
If he "meant everything he said before becoming mayor," that's no defense, since everything he says here is extremely stupid. He's arguing for intensifying the drug war. And in any case, he's giving this speech just after Bunny Colvin -- the real hero of the season -- has been stabbed in the back for the sake of Carcetti's political career.
SteveNelsonBrigade He, and most other politicians of his time, didn't know any better. This was back then when we thought that intensifying the drug war was the solution. Other characters in fiction were just as uncompromising when it came to drugs. Heck, even Don Vito Corleone in Godfather once hated the drug trade and didn't let the other Mafioso bosses use his judges and lawyers to cover up for it-until they all came together and coerced him to do it.
Thanks for the info in the description. Personally, I did not reach Ed Burns' intended audience reaction and analysis until the first episode in which Carcetti became Mayor. But I guess that was due to the fact I saw season 4 first instead of season 3.
I love this scene. Maybe one of my favorites (but then again I say that about just about every scene) but this one is special for the exact reasons Burns addresses. It's beautifully written and passionately delivered but if you're not paying attention it goes against everything the show previously depicted. Knowing this even the best of us follow Carcetti off the cliff. What do you think it says about those who've never seen the show nor understand its message?
_"What do you think it says about those who've never seen the show nor understand its message?"_ Probably that they are simply following a script that was handed to them by society to include parents and other elders, the school system, corporate media, the church, and all other implementations of society writ large.
"Mistrusting me was the wisest thing you've done since you climbed off your horse." *Prompty trusts that he's the right dude to save Baltimore and wants him to win the election*
@PsyberP It was meant to be a kind of opening statement for his campaign. He probably memorized it and was just waiting for an opportunity to give it. If it wasn't this issue, it would have been something else.
One thing I always wondered was why Carcetti felt the need to hide the huge deficit in the city budget (particularly schools) and then BS ways of getting money (taking it from the BPD). He could've just explained that he inherited the problem from Royce and say it was Royce's fault in the first place. Would've made Carcetti look more sympathetic to the people and make Royce look even worse in hindsight.
Possibly, but he wanted to run for governor of Maryland against a Republican. Both he and Royce were democrats. So, sure, he could have blamed Royce, but the Republican governor would still have beat him over the head with it.
I know this is 4 years later but Carcetti knew he couldn't remain Baltimore's mayor because he was white in a city with an overwhelmingly black Democrat voter base and had "jumped the queue" becoming mayor when others thought it was their turn. So he realised after being mayor he would immediately have to run for something else and govenoris the logical next position. As soon as he became mayor he had a meeting with people in the state Democratic party who told him to lower crime a bit, build something or do something to entrench his name and be an accomplishment, keep his boyish good looks and he could run for govenor.
Ezekiel 3722 I know this is a year late but you need to remember he promised hope and change for Baltimore. If he knew he was only going to run for one term, why run in the first place? Also he was only going to be mayor for two years before he started his run for governor. He never cared about change, only thing Tommy cared about was his political career.
- For five weeks, all the evidence of what he was doing managed to elude the command staff? - Or perhaps he was wondering why someone would shoot a man, before throwing him out of a plane !
Does anyone have the scene of Carcetti going around to the public works offices and getting on their asses about the problems around the city, but not telling them where they need to go to fix them? ("I saw an abandoned car downtown, get it towed right away." "What street?" "Thank you." "We need a location!", etc.)
I m watching the show for the second time and this subject about drug legalisation and morale is crucial for me. In fact if you watch documentaries about drug you understand that war on drugs is a fight against our own nature. Man will always use drugs and insted of punishing and creating violence we could use the money to control the use of it, preventing the addiction and informing ppl about the consequences. But we prefer ignore the problem and let bad ppl making profit of it !
@@DonGivani O, good to know. Perhaps it shod have read "An unintended reference to Bobby Kennedy" as the comment was about the cadence and content of his rhetoric
Do you know how weird it is to come back to this after Game of Thrones and Peaky Blinders? Hell, even after I hear his American accent, I keep expecting him to say "You're a big guy."
I found this while I was looking for the Carcetti/Royce debate. I considered following Carcetti 'off the cliff' (so to speak) but my distrust of politicians kept me from jumping on the Carcetti bandwagon. I like Carcetti's character and his intentions seem pure, but I dislike how obviously egocentric he is - look at the way he jerks off to his own speeches. Never underestimate the power of rhetoric. Thanks for the perspective.
They based this character Carcetti on Martin O Malley , who at the time was Mayor and went on to be a shit head Governor . His own Mother died of cancer and still wouldn't legalize Medical marijuana.
Ya, but he also didn't wanna accept money from the state because he didn't want them to have leverage against him. He traded in the schools, the police department, or wherever else that money would have been used, in order to advance individually. No one is out to destroy the city intentionally, but everybody could lead in times of prosperity. When it came time to choose between himself and the city, Carcetti chose himself.
the worst part of it is that Carcetti himself saw the positive influence Colvin's plan had on the community. the fact that these same exact tactics that have failed the western, the entire city of Baltimore, and the country as a whole are what Carcetti is calling for more of, fully aware they have no real long term impact. his narcissism and desire to get into office override his desire to have a real change on the nature of crime and community as a whole. i believe this speech makes him a certain type of villain, and maybe even the worst kind.
I don't think it's quite that shallow. He DID see Hamsterdam...he saw what the areas were like that the Drug Dealers had free run of and how they were apocalyptic. That kind of debasement was so vivid it was all that stood out compared to how peaceful the rest of it was for the other areas. The point of Hamsterdam wasn't that the Drug Free Zones were the best solutions, that even they had their failings and the people who lived in Hamsterdam were now even worse off. We saw the good, but we can't just forget that there was still plenty bad.
Though I get Ed Burns comment in the description, people were willing to follow Carcetti off a cliff because at least he had the balls to call out the numbers game and sycophancy of the Commissioners and other police.
Surrendered to the horrors of the drug trade.. The working man and woman denied... livesey livery LIBERTY safety savery basic Haines headlines hardiness headings hearings hastings HAPPINESS..n @#$%!
True, but his reasoning there was so he could help the city as governor. I don't blame him-if the governor had the money to fix the school's budget, then him becoming governor would solve everyone's problems. That being said, he put a lot of people through a lot of shit to get power, and we don't know if it was worth it.
Very likely though Governor Carcetti would have to govern as a moderate and force Baltimore schools to adhere to some state-level mandates/oversight in order to receive any bail-out money. The Maryland State Legislature will like pushback hard against special funding for Baltimore schools.
Not with D'Agostino, but he did have that one night stand with some random chick at like a fundraiser or something. Towards the beginning of the season.
![[Extendo] The Downfall Of Mayor Royce #TheWire #HBO #SceneRemix #SlowItDown #SitItOut](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6niaIB15-PY/mqdefault.jpg)
Carcetti's a great character because he's not evil. Just blinded by ambition. He can do good as a councilman, but convinces himself he can be more effective as mayor. And he could do good as mayor, but couldn't he do so much more as governor? It's this little trade-offs that politicians make for their ambition that chip away at their idealism till they become corrupt husks. What makes this series great is that it stops before he ends up fully corrupt, but you know exactly where he's going.
He's definitely evil. McNulty was right about nothing changing because everyone wants to climb the ladder rather than get something done.
The great thing about the wire is that most of the characters are not just “good” or “evil” they are looking out for themselves which in someways is what we all do
Well said
Very good succinct version of what goes on in politics.
Lol if you remember correctly, Carcetti actually thought Colvin's idea was a good idea. But when he told that to his political advisor chick, she said "you're just getting started and you're acting like you forget how to play", meaning that he had to put his personal convictions aside and use it as a political tool to score points for his career... yes, that is how politicians minds work. They are all careerists.
It's all in the game yo
Its the ultimate Catch-22. You have to be a careerist in order to accumulate the power you need to make changes. But in order to be a careerist, you have to tread so carefully as to not change anything.
Parties don't help either. In the UK, a politician may know full well what the problem is in their area of responsibility, but if the solution to that problem falls outside the party's stated ethos or narrative, that's that. They either compromise on what needs to be done, or they lose their standing in the party.
They're not leaders anymore.
@@cakecakeham5823 Thanx for a rare insight. Politics isnt the answer. The answer is less politics/ government: Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell.
@@cakecakeham5823 They never were, "leaders".
@@freemason4979 lol shut up
Chaos is a ladder, The Wire version.
Frank Castle for you
Ian Chameleon
One bad season and apparently Game Of Thrones was never good or complex. 🙄🙄 gtfo
@@mrcrackdonald_1 Seasons 6 and 7 weren't great either.
Far from it.
@@mrcrackdonald_1 yeah the first four were awesome with a breadth probably even greater than the Wire (it takes an entire fictional planet with thousands of years of history to challenge the Wire's breadth lol), but they made omissions in adaptation that screwed them later on. Then they totally botched adaptation in season 5, then they ran out of book material and both the breadth and depth dropped precipitously over the last 3 seasons as the writers could only write blockbuster horseshit instead of "all the pieces matter" slow burns that made the books and show so gratifying in the first place. Every character became stupid and all but like 3 or 4 locations were completely forgotten about by season 8 with all logic and rules of the world thrown out the window. First half great storytelling and dialogue, second half cool cgi but abysmal storytelling and dialogue
Littlefinger? In West Baltimore? Shiiiieeeeet....
CHAOS IS A LADDAH!
From west baltimore to westeroz
You expectin me to just pick up my armies and head to the wall? SHHIIIIIIIEEEEET You know I got better sense than that!
LILFINGA
This comment keeps popping up.....hmmmm.......-_-
this is the type of speech that gets you elected into public office, not the type of speech that points out what we need to do to actually solve public issues
There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.
@@willpower3317 that's the realist statement ever
@@willpower3317 damn i love thomas sowell
@@willpower3317 I guess a better way to put it...is that no one in public office currently, is willing to negotiate the best trade-offs possible.
@@simonho23 Sowell said it because he understood that the rich like himself need to utter that lie to justify hammering down on the working class.
Bunny Colvin was the finest commander in the series.
Man was trying to do as much good as he could against a corrupt system that stomps out any change from its exploitative and corrupt ways. Sure it had its flaws but it managed to make the city MUCH safer, less hostile, and even led to the current drug addicts getting better medical care. And all of this gets stomped out to go back to the far worse status quo and he gets vilified by the public. Shame cause Bunny was the character I was by far routing for the most.
O’Malley’s tenure was as destructive a mayoralty to causes of crime and punishment as Baltimore has ever seen and, by that standard, Tommy Carcetti makes him look good.” - David Simon
Needless to say, all of this is disputed by O’Malley insiders, who brag that, during his tenure, violent crime in Baltimore was cut by nearly 40 percent, down to its lowest levels in decades.
Carcetti juked the stats. He says O'Malley did too.
did carcetti juke the stats I remember him firing the commish for bringing him juked stats... he said he has to give him a pass if they tell the truth... and yes carcetti makes omalley look gr8! but it is crazy that o'malley became mayor of baltimore and got re elected
I was a prosecutor in Baltimore during the O'Malley administration and believe me, his administration did virtually nothing to actively reduce crime. He promised an increase in arrests, which did happen, but a large percentage of the arrests were blatantly unconstitutional and lacking of probable cause or real evidence to support the arrest. As a result, we at the State's Attorney's office had to decline to prosecute a huge percentage of the cases brought to us. So arrests during the O'Malley tenure increased, but prosecutions and convictions fell. It was a mess.
@@kristinanne3763 Thanks so much for this rare gem of an insight!
It's amazing how different this scene becomes after watching the wire a few times.
I couldn't agree more. The first time you watch this scene, you are very tempted to get caught up in the passion. But after watching the wire a few more times, you realize how speeches like this do more harm then good long term.
Could you explain why?
Drugsanddragonslul like the guy that commented before you said, the first time you get caught up in the rhetoric and believe that maybe this time this particular politician can make a difference, after watching the whole series you realize that it's nothing more than politicial rhetoric that you heard 1000 times before and nothing ever gets done
@Jared Dowty "This defeat cannot and will not be forgiven." Yeah. Twists and turns and cul-de-sacs of words, all meaning absolutely nothing. Couldn't agree more.
@@Gryffilion We need progressive populists willing to say the unpopular thing as directly as fascist populists have been for the past 10-15 years worldwide. Duterte, Bolsonaro, Erdogan and even Orange Foolius titillate their countrymen's worst tendencies toward racism, sexism, homophobia and ultranationalism but the lives of the working poodle that voted for them have not gotten materially better. People will still resort to crime when education fails to prepare them good opportunities in the legit world. Some give up and simply want to escape that reality so they turn to using, instead of selling, those same hard narcotics. He gives that speech about how "we" are all at fault and have to hold our leaders to account but makes no specific proposals to reform a racist law enforcement apparatus, labor laws, unions or education. All this shit affects the entire working class! He blames no branch of local or state government for any of its economic or drug policies, which tend to benefit the already-haves, but he says it all like he really cares...and we applaud! But this is politics 101, isn't it? Get their votes, then give them the bare minimum! Get your campaign domains from the rich, get re-elected! Applause.
Chaos is a ladder....
Jesus, that speech was so good that even I was sucked in by Carcetti's promises the first time I watched this. Later realising that this speech isn't going to change shit, I was shocked.
Nothing ever changes. It's politics.
I didn't know this guy was petyr "littlefinger" baelish in game of thrones... that's why is so good!.
I think the conclusion we all draw is that Martin O'Malley is Littlefinger.
Douglas Butcher I can’t stand you nerds.
Didnt become president, so not enough chaos.
Wrong way round. Littlefinger is carcetti. 1-he was carcetti first. And 2, little finger is end of the carcetti storyline. He might have cared about others once. Now he just wants to keep climbing that ladder.
TELL ME ABOUT BANE! WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK!?
A LOT OF LOYALTY FOR A HIRED GUN!
I agree this is one of the most important scenes in this season of the Wire. Carcetti, dubious otherwise, tells his audience that it's forgiveable that Colvin tried and failed; however, in face of defeat it's unforgiveable playing blame games and politics instead of each individual stepping up to drive change. This is a moral statement in line with "when good men do nothing" as well as a development in Carcetti's character portrayed by his self-contradiction and mute delivery of the speech.
i loved the wire and tommy carcetti was my favourite character, not because i agree with him but because he actually does what every politican do, and in fact, on the highest level. a really good example which reflect how the things happen in the real life. he semi-believed the things he spoke when he was a conceullor, and then he just.. transformed, swam with the tides. advance in his carrier became more important than what he spoke of. excellent actor play and story writing.
The Wire, Game of Thrones, Dark Knight Rises...guy's agent deserves a pay-raise
He was awful in all three of them though. The plane scene is probably the worst scene in cinema history.
bigstar66 lmao obvious troll detected
@@bigstar66 Why do think it is that horrible I think he acted really good in all of those roles
@@Blue_124th The man actually sleeps under a bridge and under that bridge is a rock and under that rock is a sloth shelled creature known as bigstar66 that is likely too lazy to write any form of a coherent response. So I'm sorry to say but its unlikely you'll receive a real answer for his opinion.
@@Blue_124th dude probably at a halfway house on dial-up internet right now.
When I first saw this scene I was like 'This guys great!' And then sat back and thought about it, as soon as he uses the word war you know it's actually fucked up. It's escalation; as they show in various parts of the show, for every weapon the system wields, there is another that the criminals can invent, and the worse the problem gets.
Well doesnt matter what he said, even if he'd said war but focussed on using his weapons smartly than all show, it mightve done some good.
He does a good American accent.
Omnipresent One im swedish but i think he sounds like an irish or European that moved to baltimore as a kid haha
@Omnipresent One What a moronic reply to an innocuous comment. His accent is passable. If we're going to crucify the guy for not sounding like he grew up on street X we might as well never make another film or tv show again
@Omnipresent One that's a really useless response. the man didn't grow up in west baltimore if you didn't realise it wise guy
Sean LaBua he does a convinving GENERAL American accent (I did catch him slipping in some episodes... the word been and the word thousand revealed his Irish accent) but he does not sound like a Marylander.
Omnipresent One when I watched this show as it aired I had no idea he was Irish so I have no idea what you’re talking about. He does a flawless accent.
The Duterte administration took this speech literally, and ran with it as a government policy.......
"You call something a war and pretty soon you're going to have everybody running around like warriors. They're going to be running around on a crusade, and when you're at war you need an enemy." - Bunny Colvin
That was the real speech about drug enforcement that everyone besides Carver should have heard. Carcetti using war rhetoric at the end of his speech should have been the clue for everyone watching. We forget that Royce was actually in favor of the free zones once he understood how much good they were doing, Rawls' paranoia and greed is what sank it really. Royce actually showed that he was somewhat decent far more than everyone else. Notice that city hall or the council never held any meetings with the people that live their day to day in the city about how Colvin's actions affected them, how they felt about it. They just went on TV and said what they were expected to say. None of the people that go on these crusades live amongst this stuff. They all have inspired words about the city and its people, but the people made it clear. The dealers want to sell, the fiends want to buy, and the citizens would like to not have to sleep under their beds and avoid their own windows.
"It's all in the game though." - Omar Little
The political game is about image and perception. Whenever someone tried to do the right thing or go with the obvious solution, there was always those around them to stop or redirect them by pointing out why they can't do that. It'll piss off those few important people somewhere out there, that they need something from. They can't do what's right, they have to do what's established. In the game of politics and drugs the rules say you can't go your own way, their establishments won't stand for it. Anyone who's tried either lost their life or lost their soul. Funny enough the people who fell off one way or another were trying to make things better for all involved. With so many players, someone is worried about what they'll lose even when they have more than enough. Later on you really see key differences to the rules in how these two games are played. In drugs, if you're not actually a piece of shit you're weak. In politics everyone knows they're all pieces of shit, but to be seen as one makes you weak. What's weakness? Trying to do something good. Openning to this season made it clear how this was all going to go. The politicians took a problem they created and made it worse without any consideration of the aftermath.
Carcetti was never a bad guy. He always wanted to help. If it wasn't for that 54 million he had to pull out his out of nowhere because of the Royce administration, he could have done some real good.
He was young and naive. Had no idea what he was getting himself into.
@@MAMII-ks2qg Carcetti wasnt that naive.
He was actually entertaining thought of a _"Hamsterdam"_ at first, until his political advisor warned him against it.
That was great, the description/context with the video. Thanks
When ed burns said he "went all candide on myself," (see description) he is essentially saying how disappointed in the audience he is. How, despite spending all of season 3 showing how the war on drugs and tough on crime accomplished nothing, so many ppl still fell into carcettis speech and followed him ovr the cliff. He was disappointed in that so many ppl didnt get the message, that they were viewing the entire season and seeing why carcettis speech is actually calling for more harm, yet so many ppl just didnt pick that up and just followed him over the cliff...
could you explain what "went all candide on myself" means please?
I think people wanted to believe Carcetti was legit. I think even Carcetti wanted to believe he was legit. But the game is the game, and he was as doomed to corruption and failure as anyone and everyone. He was always self-serving -- it just took him awhile to honestly realize it, and the audience as well. That they still want to believe in him is merely human nature. Burns can be disappointed in that, but I can't imagine he's surprised.
2:10 Tony Gray finally grasped that carcetti was not just a white boy pencil pusher, he was going for the Mayor seat.
WAS GETTING CAUGHT PART OF YOUR PLAN?
Of Course!
@Frank Castle destroying Baltimore....wait a second
"Well congratulations you got your self elected, what is the next step of your masterplan?"
"Passing this bill..........With no survivors!"
He was just pontificating to win the sympathy of the voters.
And then he gets burned when he figures out it's a lot tougher than he thought.........
sounds like defecating palatable shit
1:20 "This is more than... whether someone can use this disaster to make a political point or two," he says, while use the disaster to make a political point. Classic politician
To think this guy is Irish in real... Any of you from Baltimore here? What's his accent like? I obviously can't judge but I can only assume he did a great job accent wise.
A great actor also.
He is Irish
Putting on a Baltimore accent is difficult even for an American. I think he was just going for a flat general American accent, but he sounds more Philadelphian than Baltimorean.
So you're surprised that an Irish actor did an American voice with a clear Irish-ness? It's not a Baltimore accent.
No, I am not surprised. I know they can do accents... take Idris Elba (same show) for instance...
I was just wondering how good (bad) his accent was...
I'm from D.C. Traditional Baltimore accents are extremely specific to the region, and rarely heard in U.S. mass media. Most of The Wire's non-local actors wisely didn't attempt to copy the dialect, but good examples of it can be heard in the speech of Robert Chew (Prop Joe), Felicia "Snoop" Pearson and Jay Landsman (Lieutenant Mello).
Ayyy, my man Aiden Gillen. He also played a drug kingpin in an Irish show called Love/Hate, worth looking into because the theme is fairly similar to what happens in The Wire.
I was a cop for a large police department in Los Angeles for 25+ years. I worked patrol, narcotics, vice, CRASH and various other assignments and details. Colvin's approach to an undying problem of epidemic proportions was classic. I think it was great. And I beliveve it would have positive results. Many years ago when I worked dope we were shoveling shit against the tide. In the 1980's CRASH was pretty much the same. Push them all in a corner and watch them closely. Harpon those that try to introduce more narcotics/violence. Just a thought.
I'm from LBC, I remember hearing about crash
Martin O'Malley
+R JN Totally. In fact, I think this was taken almost verbatim from one of his speeches.
+Joshua Carroll And O'Malley hates the Wire and David Simon to this day. Simon's hilarious - he won't directly say Carcetti is definitely O'Malley but "a composite of a few Baltimore politicians." Yet, if you read the realy stories, he can't be anyone else. Brilliant.
Great, another show to add to my watch list.
From Stuart on Queer as Folk, to this, to Littlefinger... And Aidan is so soft spoken in real life, it's weird. Also, I don't know how to feel about him without the facial hair.
Love/Hate.... Award winning Irish series, he plays a crime boss in Dublin's criminal underworld.
If you know someone who is involved in political action of any kind, and they watch this show and think they're supposed to sympathize with Carcetti, you know you are dealing with someone you can't trust. The first time I saw this scene, it was immediately obvious that he was a snake, and that his speech was puffed-up nonsense. We even know, when he's giving this speech, that he's in the process of deliberately fucking over his friend on City Council, who also intends to run against Mayor Royce. Let alone the fact that the content of the speech is asinine, and clearly contradicted by the facts on the ground that we've been shown for three seasons. Regular people who see this scene, and don't get it, can be forgiven for being a little slow. Politically active people who see it and sympathize with Carcetti -- well, you should probably watch your drink when your in the presence of people like that.
Not to mention the fact that Colvin is the real hero of the whole season, and Carcetti has just stabbed him in the back.
Actually, Carcetti was originally written in as an idealist who only later got corrupted by the political system. He meant everything he said before becoming mayor.
If he "meant everything he said before becoming mayor," that's no defense, since everything he says here is extremely stupid. He's arguing for intensifying the drug war. And in any case, he's giving this speech just after Bunny Colvin -- the real hero of the season -- has been stabbed in the back for the sake of Carcetti's political career.
SteveNelsonBrigade
He, and most other politicians of his time, didn't know any better. This was back then when we thought that intensifying the drug war was the solution. Other characters in fiction were just as uncompromising when it came to drugs. Heck, even Don Vito Corleone in Godfather once hated the drug trade and didn't let the other Mafioso bosses use his judges and lawyers to cover up for it-until they all came together and coerced him to do it.
SteveNelsonBrigade
Thanks for the info in the description. Personally, I did not reach Ed Burns' intended audience reaction and analysis until the first episode in which Carcetti became Mayor. But I guess that was due to the fact I saw season 4 first instead of season 3.
look at the black woman at 2:25 next to carcetti, rolling her eyes. I think that was what the true sentiment of the writers of the show.
I love this scene. Maybe one of my favorites (but then again I say that about just about every scene) but this one is special for the exact reasons Burns addresses. It's beautifully written and passionately delivered but if you're not paying attention it goes against everything the show previously depicted. Knowing this even the best of us follow Carcetti off the cliff. What do you think it says about those who've never seen the show nor understand its message?
_"What do you think it says about those who've never seen the show nor understand its message?"_
Probably that they are simply following a script that was handed to them by society to include parents and other elders, the school system, corporate media, the church, and all other implementations of society writ large.
He would see this city burn if he could be king of the ashes
"Mistrusting me was the wisest thing you've done since you climbed off your horse." *Prompty trusts that he's the right dude to save Baltimore and wants him to win the election*
2:24 look at Eunetta, Mayor Royce’s friend, rolling her eyes at Carcetti talking about the administration. Lol
This was the writing on the wall for Burrell. Carceti was Done with him...
@PsyberP It was meant to be a kind of opening statement for his campaign. He probably memorized it and was just waiting for an opportunity to give it. If it wasn't this issue, it would have been something else.
Nice upload. Thank you.
The War on Drugs isn't working. Maybe the solution isn't more war, but to try something else, something like Bunny Colvin was trying.
"That's worse you're the commissioner"
One thing I always wondered was why Carcetti felt the need to hide the huge deficit in the city budget (particularly schools) and then BS ways of getting money (taking it from the BPD). He could've just explained that he inherited the problem from Royce and say it was Royce's fault in the first place. Would've made Carcetti look more sympathetic to the people and make Royce look even worse in hindsight.
Possibly, but he wanted to run for governor of Maryland against a Republican. Both he and Royce were democrats. So, sure, he could have blamed Royce, but the Republican governor would still have beat him over the head with it.
Did he want to be Governor right from the start? I thought that was something he considered later.
Lol Carcetti is pretty much like Gillens latter character Littlefinger.
I know this is 4 years later but Carcetti knew he couldn't remain Baltimore's mayor because he was white in a city with an overwhelmingly black Democrat voter base and had "jumped the queue" becoming mayor when others thought it was their turn. So he realised after being mayor he would immediately have to run for something else and govenoris the logical next position. As soon as he became mayor he had a meeting with people in the state Democratic party who told him to lower crime a bit, build something or do something to entrench his name and be an accomplishment, keep his boyish good looks and he could run for govenor.
Ezekiel 3722 I know this is a year late but you need to remember he promised hope and change for Baltimore. If he knew he was only going to run for one term, why run in the first place? Also he was only going to be mayor for two years before he started his run for governor. He never cared about change, only thing Tommy cared about was his political career.
that's the point, of course. It happens to all politicians, no matter how idealistic they start out.
Lmao Burrell and Rawls using the major crimes unit as one of the excuses, as if they never stood in its way and always supported it
- For five weeks, all the evidence of what he was doing managed to elude the command staff?
- Or perhaps he was wondering why someone would shoot a man, before throwing him out of a plane !
Does anyone have the scene of Carcetti going around to the public works offices and getting on their asses about the problems around the city, but not telling them where they need to go to fix them? ("I saw an abandoned car downtown, get it towed right away." "What street?" "Thank you." "We need a location!", etc.)
1:27 which is exactly what he did right after the damn speech.
HUGE moment in The Wire....Carcetti drops a HUGE BOMB!!!
Imo Greatest show ever created!
Did anyone notice eunettas hard eye roll 2:26
I m watching the show for the second time and this subject about drug legalisation and morale is crucial for me. In fact if you watch documentaries about drug you understand that war on drugs is a fight against our own nature. Man will always use drugs and insted of punishing and creating violence we could use the money to control the use of it, preventing the addiction and informing ppl about the consequences.
But we prefer ignore the problem and let bad ppl making profit of it !
It's not everyday that you have Littlefinger and Caesar in the same room........
His character is based on Bobby Kennedy. He has the earnest look, the rhetorical cadence, the conviction, the salesmanship
Martin O'Malley , the white mayor who won in a predominantly black city . David Simon would confirm
@@DonGivani O, good to know. Perhaps it shod have read "An unintended reference to Bobby Kennedy" as the comment was about the cadence and content of his rhetoric
Bane sorted Carcetti out in the end.
Nice upload.
Do you know how weird it is to come back to this after Game of Thrones and Peaky Blinders?
Hell, even after I hear his American accent, I keep expecting him to say "You're a big guy."
That slow zoom in
Reform, change and back to the status quo.
I found this while I was looking for the Carcetti/Royce debate. I considered following Carcetti 'off the cliff' (so to speak) but my distrust of politicians kept me from jumping on the Carcetti bandwagon. I like Carcetti's character and his intentions seem pure, but I dislike how obviously egocentric he is - look at the way he jerks off to his own speeches.
Never underestimate the power of rhetoric. Thanks for the perspective.
They based this character Carcetti on Martin O Malley , who at the time was Mayor and went on to be a shit head Governor . His own Mother died of cancer and still wouldn't legalize Medical marijuana.
Lol. I kept thinking about Baelish's "chaos is a latter" speech
I knew I recognized Rawls voice, he’s ceasar in fallout new Vegas
This guy’s a fucking great actor
he's channeling his inner JFK
Can’t believe he’s Aberama Gold
this scene is a lot different after you finish the show
After his governorship of Maryland, he migrates to The Vale of Westeros.
it's a speech that sells him as a mayor but that ultimately only promotes to accentuate the root of the issue as a solution
Ya, but he also didn't wanna accept money from the state because he didn't want them to have leverage against him. He traded in the schools, the police department, or wherever else that money would have been used, in order to advance individually. No one is out to destroy the city intentionally, but everybody could lead in times of prosperity. When it came time to choose between himself and the city, Carcetti chose himself.
the worst part of it is that Carcetti himself saw the positive influence Colvin's plan had on the community. the fact that these same exact tactics that have failed the western, the entire city of Baltimore, and the country as a whole are what Carcetti is calling for more of, fully aware they have no real long term impact. his narcissism and desire to get into office override his desire to have a real change on the nature of crime and community as a whole. i believe this speech makes him a certain type of villain, and maybe even the worst kind.
I don't think it's quite that shallow. He DID see Hamsterdam...he saw what the areas were like that the Drug Dealers had free run of and how they were apocalyptic. That kind of debasement was so vivid it was all that stood out compared to how peaceful the rest of it was for the other areas.
The point of Hamsterdam wasn't that the Drug Free Zones were the best solutions, that even they had their failings and the people who lived in Hamsterdam were now even worse off. We saw the good, but we can't just forget that there was still plenty bad.
Not just a show
i'm not sure if the writers wanted him to appear like he just memorized an essay, or maybe it was his terrible acting.
Though I get Ed Burns comment in the description, people were willing to follow Carcetti off a cliff because at least he had the balls to call out the numbers game and sycophancy of the Commissioners and other police.
The British actors on the show have the best characters
Aiden Gillen is so good at playing these fucking detestable characters lol
oooh noooo its Little Finger
I'm pretty sure he's supposed to sound like Kennedy. His accent becomes pretty bostonian if you ask me..."the way this war should be fawht"
2:03 rawls is breathless at carcettis level of pure bullshit 😂😂😂
Fucking hell... Indeed I trusted Carcetti and got disappointed. Damn.
The truth of the matter is Covin’s solution actually worked.
Littlefinger the GOAT Democratic governor of all time. Damn shame Sansa killed him cause we needed him for 2020 smfh.
Surrendered to the horrors of the drug trade..
The working man and woman denied... livesey livery LIBERTY safety savery basic Haines headlines hardiness headings hearings hastings HAPPINESS..n @#$%!
I actually slightly prefer him as Carcetti to Petyr Baelish. Gillen is a brilliant actor though.
So this is the history of how "Little Finger" got started?
The politicians are more important to the story of wire than the gangsters
I'm sorry but this is perfect...
I'd vote for Tommy Carcetti....'s cute ass wife.
True, but his reasoning there was so he could help the city as governor. I don't blame him-if the governor had the money to fix the school's budget, then him becoming governor would solve everyone's problems. That being said, he put a lot of people through a lot of shit to get power, and we don't know if it was worth it.
Very likely though Governor Carcetti would have to govern as a moderate and force Baltimore schools to adhere to some state-level mandates/oversight in order to receive any bail-out money.
The Maryland State Legislature will like pushback hard against special funding for Baltimore schools.
Toney’s pissed...lol
Amazing how much Carcetti's character reminds me of O'Malley.
THE KING IN THE NORTH!
Theresa D’agostino looks like a darn Sith Lord here LOL
Not with D'Agostino, but he did have that one night stand with some random chick at like a fundraiser or something. Towards the beginning of the season.
AAAAHHHHHHH PETYR BAELISH LITTLEFINGER
Rhetoric is rhetoric; nothing more. Sounding good doesn't mean it is good.
Chaos is a laddah...