The 40k Universes Beyond Tier List
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2024
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The Warhammer 40k Universes Beyond Commander Preconstructed decks land VERY soon. Looking at flavour & theme, deisgn & mechanics - then arbitrarily sorting the Legendary cards into a Tier list.
You can do your own tier list here, and share it on my Discord or with me on twitter:
tiermaker.com/...
#magicthegathering #40k #commander
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Participating in capitalism will not save the planet-
carbon offsetting is a bullshit scam. most those companies just buy written carbon offsets from companies like tesla or solar companies that account for "how much carbon they save" sell those writs to companies that produce a shit ton of pollution as a method of those companies being able to say hey were carbon neutral on paper by buying those in bulk.
That all being said if Wren is just legit out there planting trees and not just middleman for corpos jerking each other off then I am all for it.
My theory on why the Golden Throne gets sacrificed instead of staying out is more a reference to the Emperor's contingency plan. If Terra should be about to fall, Vulkan has a detonator that will blow up the throne taking a big chunk of the galaxy with it, but it will also seal the warp. Humanity is saved, but crippled. It stops you from dying, but ur at one life
Or maybe you can't use the thrones abilities anymore because you're now on it?
@@TheLangenator no the emperor is on it and actively powers it
From what I remember The Emperor is a perpetual wich means he would ressurect if he dies
What a irony :')
@@thibwhoworshipthrash6854
Yeah, just like Malcador
Oh wait
@@thibwhoworshipthrash6854 doesn’t work for the eldar anymore right ? I think that’s a plot point isn’t it ?
Idk not a big 40k buff
One thing I like about the Necron legends is that they all play a part in the "slow but inevitable" style that they have. Kill my creature, fine. I'll get him back to my hand and make more. Then I'll sacrifice another for more mana to cast it again. These commanders don't have too many options for other decks, but they definitely feel like a Space Mummy Avenger squad.
I think of the ward effect on the Kellermorph being their superhuman reflexes, since because of their genetic mutations they literally experience time in slow motion allowing them to react to their enemies with inhuman speed.
For reference, Imotekh makes TWO tokens per trigger
I was going to mention that 2
as someone who runs an imotekh deck, he craps out necrons like you wouldn't believe
Yeah, Imotekh should be rated higher. Not only is it 2 free creature tokens, it's 2 free artifacts, which means he can fuel many different artifact combos through artifact etbs, taps, or sacrifices, or all 3 of those things at once even. Can easily go infinite, but doesn't have to, 6 black mana and tortured existence can create 12 2/2s at instant speed, then you drop in the menace lord and now its 36 menace dmg swinging out of nowhere.
Not that it affects your tier list, but the Swarmlord has a fun thing where it just cares about casting your commander from the zone rather than the Swarmlord itself. So even in the 99, if you've cast your commander several times he'll come back bigger
I'd say that makes him better in the 99 personally.
Particularly with a cheap, easy to cast commander.
Fun fact: if you have multiple commanders (like with partner, for example) they stack. The cheapest combo to be able to play Swarmlord in the 99 is Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh and Thrasios, Triton Hero.
Hi Vince! Cracking video, love a rambly arbitrary Tier list video from you any day. With the Kelermorph, and ward specifically, in 40k he's not just one of two non full alien Genestealer Cult characters with an invunerable save (and it's even called Preternatural Reflexes), but, the Cult also have the Unquestioning Loyalty rule, where your regular duders can throw themselves in front of wounds for their leaders. So, Ward kind of fits both. To me.
Exactly this. Ward totally fits in this instance
I'm planning a human/soldier tribal deck with the Commissar, and then also including things that make angel tokens... getting a alter of some flying angel tokens to be Blood Angles and Dark Angels with jet packs to keep it on theme, just because a lot of the human tribal stuff from the old innistrad block really mesh well name and theme wise with 40k. Spare from Evil, Repel the Abominable, Decent upon the Sinful, Entreat the Angels. Going to run the Parhelion 2 as like a dropship, dropping space marines "angels" to help us guardsman in a time of need, and I absolutely plan to sacrifice summoning sick tokens who did not run into battle with the other guardsman as being cowards. I am. SO excited.
I am trying to keep a lot of the non-40k cards to still stick the landing on name and theme, like Intangible Virtue, Devout Chaplain, Inspiring Leader, Throne of the High City, and if I can fit them the Crown, Scepter and Throne of empires. Even General Kudro looks like a Imperial Guard General.
And nestled... deep in the core of my dec: Jarren, Corrupted Bishiop, a heretic in my own midst. A daemon waiting to be birthed and throw my own forces into service to the lords of chaos.
I cannot explain how thrilled I am for this ahahahaha. Rock some Blood Angel "Angel" tokens, some Dark Angels with vigilance, and some like, human conscripts as my non-soldier "Human" tokens.
It's nice to see these decks reviewed by a 40k/mtg player. I think it's your videos that have convinced me to get the decks. I'm still sad my favorite factions have little too no cards in this set
Thank you
As someone who loves all things artifacts and aristocrats Imotekh scratches a very specific itch for me. Worth noting that he makes 2 tokens per trigger of his first ability. I'll probably be building him and I can't wait to start looping artifacts in and out of my yard with him in play.
The Trazyn necron creature reminds me of Brainiac style of being a cyborg that collects.
I cannot fathom how everyone is underselling trazyn. I know he may not be everyone’s definition of fun, heck I’m not even building him. But he is so obviously S tier and everyone is just looking at him and going “meh”
My personal favorites from these decks: Magnus the Red, Trazyn the Infinite, Magus Lucea Lane, and Marneus Calgar
I will be building all 4 of them
I think Mortarion is playing more into the original Death Guard schtick: Attrition Warfare. Take 5 damage, get 5x 2/2 guys, hit them back for (potentially) more. Take the blows, and make sure your foe loses more than you do. Grueling back-and-forth trench warfare was their thing before Plague was, and largely still is, through Nurgle's blessings making them incredibly hard to put down.
"goes infinite with a ham sandwich" was not something I was expecting to hear haha
I wasn't planning on getting these but you and the Prof have changed my mind and I've just picked up Necrons & Imperium. The art & flavour of these cards is fantastic and the new cards are absolutely on point.
I see arbitrary tier list based solely on someone else’s opinion, I click.
I haven't figured it out yet but I feel like it would be really fun to play commander where you can have as many copies of common Warhammer themed cards in your deck as you want to almost simulate a real table top game of 40k
I hate reading, but the Infinite and the Divine was INCREDIBLE.
(ps: you got it, it's a loyalist fulgrim clone in Trazyn's collection)
Read that book 5 times while I was in jail, absolute banger
Find enough incredible books and you'll love reading... For a 40ker venturing into general sci-fi, I highly recommend Peter Hamilton's The Reality Dysfunction.
Trazyn tickles my "gy is your hand, actually" fancy in all the right ways. It's also really easy to set up an early game win with Entomb effects if you want to build sweaty.
Be'Lakor alone is making me wanting to try 40K, what a homerun design. Also, that 6mv rakdos equipment? My Syr Gwyn is crying tears of happiness
A note on Ghyrson is that it doesn't just have to be pingers. It's any source you control. So 1/X creatures will do it as well and there's a fair few one mana unblockables in blue or artifacts. What's more thematic than your Gingerbrute acting as a "spotter" for your three armed genestealer gunslinger?
I'm a bit sad to see they didn't print Orikan
As a Necron player, I'm very upset at the Silent King, but Trazyn looks awesome and if we're being honest he's the best Necron character.
Then again, where the hell is Orikan?
I'm not interested in Warhammer, and can't justify getting into another expensive hobby, essentially one that takes up so much space. So while I haven't been hyped about these cards from a lore aspect, but I've been very excited to get my hands on some of the cards for my cube. This video was nice, I'm glad you're super excited about these cards and I'm grateful that you shared a little bit of flavor insight with us.
That all being said, I am ROCK HARD for the upcoming Transformers cards. I grew up on the original cartoon and while not all are slam dunk designs, some of them like Soundwave are perfect, and regardless of effect, the artwork takes me back to my childhood. In that aspect, I understand exactly how you feel about the Warhammer cards, and honestly now I get how Universes Beyond can be a good thing.
“I don’t think he’s got Fulgrim”
Fabius Bile: :)
Cawl’s mechanics are very Azorious, but Cawl as a character is one of the most infamous renegades in the Mechanicus, so him being Azorious feels very wrong.
Trazyn got an uncorrupted clone of Primarch Fulgrim in his galleries in return for a collection of untainted geneseed for the Emperor’s Children.
It’s a perfect clone of Fulgrim, courtesy of Fabius Bile.
Great video! It’s fun to see you evaluate and enjoy these cards as a fan of both properties. Keep it up!
The decks all have incentives for combat because in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.
There is one thing I've noticed about the Golden Throne. It doesn't help if you lose due to deckout or infect. I mean, sure, you end up on one life, but if you still need to draw, you can't due to having nothing left in your library. And with infect, you still have 10+infect counters when its effect kicks in, meaning you still lose. Maybe I'm missing something here, but this is from my understanding of the game at least.
32:11 Yeah same. I've done the whole winning with combos, stax and what not. These days I like winning through combat and setting up a boardstate where you can position yourself for a win with tight plays! I hope I make myself understood lol.
Vince, please tell Brian how to pronounce Custodes? I about punched the screen.
Also, didn't appreciate his vitriol towards 40K.
Thanks for being a consistently effective presenter and commentator on our beloved hobbies. You're a true voice in this community.
I think its fine for the Necron Sceptor to be a powerful mana rock because of what Mana and Ramp mean in the context of MTG. The Scepter is harnessing energy to awaken your Necron forces and that I think is pretty fun.
Belisarius Cawl is, on the table top, an HQ choice to lead a Mechanicus army that you are fielding: he's really quite *extremely not* the Fabricator General of the Mechanicus or at all "in charge of" Mars within the actual background, and if he were to try to be (perhaps because the Emperor's Risen Son were to try to appoint him as such, via his position of Imperial Regent), there would almost with absolute certainty "be a civil war".
Cawl is widely considered to be an arch-heretek within the ranks of the broader Mechanicus, you see, he's an extremely divisive figure who survives by being largely eccentric and uninterested in political power (and of course, having those ties to the Regent of the Imperium).
Edit: You definitely should read The Infinite and the Divine, it's great.
I'm not a big fan of necrons but I like that we're getting mono-black artifact support, Imotekh seems like a fun commander to build
That model you painted looks really amazing.
Kellermorph having ward 2 probably represents his nimble gun slinger agility
Idea for what Mortarion's effect could have been:
Infect
During your end step, gain one life for each infect counter on your opponents or permanents they control.
I agree 100% with the Silent King and The Sceptre. They did the Necrons really dirty. I mean there is only 1 rare land in the deck? You couldn't give me Urborg?
I am REALLY hyped for all these decks, maybe Chaos or Necron is my favorite so far in terms of spoilers but we will see how those play out in the end
In our playtesting the Necron decks was still quite strong, but you are right, the best cards are in the deck, Szarek is not the powerhouse he should be. Would have loved his scepter as Equipment as well, but this mana rock certainly is a staple for mono colored decks in the future.
As Necron fan I can't wait to build Trazyn, there is a pile of cards ready here to, well, go infinite.
Want to do more with Abadon the Despoiler? Dragon's Approach.
Even the three Necrons that made it to B was pretty generous. Anrakyr is probably still bottom B just on power level, but Imotekh and Sevras don't feel like the characters at all.
To be honest, the entire Necron deck was an entire miss for me, flavor wise, as a Necron player. It's probably fine as a cohesive magic deck, but so many of those cards don't feel like they represent what they are supposed to represent at all, and some of the inconsistencies between the cards is really outrageous. The Skorpekh Destroyer having a better stat line then the Skorpekh Lord being a particularly glaring example, but also the Spyder having flying but the Technomancer NOT having flying was also kinda strange to me, their other abilities aside. Unearth is NOT the mechanic i would have themed a Necron deck around, but in terms of reanimator abilities in magic there are not a lot of choices.
I guess to give the Necron deck creators some credit, the Necron army really struggles present itself as something.... cohesive? If you made cards that were loyal to the abilities of the units, you would have a deck of randomly powerful cards that wouldn't really work together at all. I suppose something had to give. Overall this deck definitely represents one of the more challenging aspects of porting other IP's into Magic and is a possible warning sign of struggles and misses to come when it comes to these kinds of products.
It'll be interesting to see your take on the deck when it comes out.
some of those necrons will be good to put them in my breya deck
Commisar is one of my first pics. Cant wait to make soldiers wrk.
- Commissar Severina, S tier? What am I missing? I have seen multiple MTG content creators gushing over this card.
- Mortarion would've been way better if they changed the text to ''at the beginning of each end step'' that way anytime anyone does damage to you you have the chance to pay for troops on any end step, currently it is odd that it only works on YOUR end step.
- WOTC should have brought back the ''Provoke'' mechanic for Tyranids, it fits so perfectly for them.
- I am surprised the Red Terror doesn't have Doublestrike, Haste or First strike. Haste would've been a fun synergy with the Deathleaper.
- Celestine is pretty cool since they only care about how much life you gained, gain 10+ life bring back an eldrazi? LOL
- Inquisitor Greyfax, I love how thematic it is for her to tap down a creature and get a Clue
- Abaddon, mini Yidris?
- I heard this works: Magus Lucea combined with Pemmins Aura, etc... can tap, untap, tap (depending on how much blue mana you have) will copy and copy depending on how many times you tap and untap them to cast the X spell. Can someone confirm this?
I don't think you realize how powerful trazyn is... he's probably the most OP card of the whole set. Dude goes infinite with one or two artifacts in your graveyard.
"Investilink" haha love it!
Imotech makes TWO creatures with that trigger , so easy to break
Does the Golden Throne prevent thassa's oracle and other similar cards from winning the game?
I'm perplexed as to why Mortarion doesn't have deathtouch at least. Like, does it matter that much? It's a disappointing choice.
I think they really missed the power levels on some of these cards, esp the Primarchs and Necron Lords.
And the color alignments as well, I mean, who would print mono-black Mortarion? He HAD to be BLACK GREEN, and they fucked it up.
I think Starn is a little closer to Torbrand than you are giving it credit to. It mentions Source, which does not exclude combat damage. Tesuko makes a 1/1 combat costal piracy style decks insane, you can go pain with mana barbs and roiling vortex enhanced to the gills. Since Starn deals the damage, giving him keywords like death touch or curiosity effects also make him pop off from the damage. Because of versatility of triggering Starn, he is pretty much blue red Torbrand.
I'm currently in the process of building a Cavalcade of Calamity deck with Ghyrson as commander
The way I see Mortarion on his card is that he’s about the whole Nurgle ethos of death obsession. If you embrace the fact that death and suffering is unavoidable, and go out and seek things like diseases, you paradoxically become unafraid of death.
Ergo he rewards you for inflicting suffering on yourself, during your turn.
A bit of reference for my take, I only looked into warhammer lore when these decks were announced a year ago and haven't yet gotten into Warhammer itself as a hobby, though the lore so pretty cool. Big magic fan have been a long time. My biggest complaint with many of the commanders was them being unnecessarily boring. Lucius had badass lore when I looked it up. Unbelievably boring and underpowered card I would never want to play in any deck I have, which is a shame. If they would have tacked the tiniest thing unto it, it would have become a much more interesting card. Just make it drain the "haunted" creature's controller for 1, boom incentive to active his effect more, without being overpowered. Tiny things like that could have been added to a lot of the cards (not just commanders) to make them more interesting. I guess that is all a consequence of them not wanting to make anything overpowered or overcomplex for new players, but it is still mildly annoying in certain places. Overall an amazing product though.
I really want to build a bullshit rule 0 partner list with that Imotekh and Osgir from the strix haven precons cause I just love the two of them together.
Every time I see or hear about ‘Old One Eye’, I can’t help but think of the early 2000AD strip, ‘Flesh’. That had a character with the same name, albeit it was a dinosaur. Also, speaking of 2000AD references, Tyranids and Biogs, the same or is it just me…??
I am in love with the Inquisitor Greyfax, I am sticking with her as the Commander, because Marneus Calgar is too powerful, people will fear him going infinite, which is a good thing I feel.
Imotekh creates two warriors not one lol
This! He goes infinite so easily! He's so so SO strong
Morty should have done something with infect but was probably too hard to balance for a precon setting
Stormlord says create “two” 2/2 necron warriors, not one friend.
Ghyrson Starn is begging for Impact tremors.
I want Comissar and the Intercessor for my Teysa Karlov deck
I don't even need "Magic" versions, they already look Orzhov enough
Imotekh generates TWO 2/2 Necron Warrior artifact creature tokens (in the vid there are two instances of you saying you get one).
Also, based on the wording, would it not be each instance of 1+ artifacts leaving, even in a single turn? So if a card allows you to grab 1 artifact to hand, another card that puts one on the battlefield, and then you play a card that shuffles your graveyard back into the deck which includes 5 artifacts, your turn is spent also making six 2/2's, right?
Edit: I ask this second one for my own understanding as I'm not entirely sure.
Trazyn actually does have a loyalist Fulgrim in his collection.
Is the RUG X cost commander better than the BUG one from Ikoria? They both seem really strong, but the Ikoria one gets to make colored mana which allows it to go infinite with itself a lot quicker. I'm actually considering building the RUG variant just because it seems a bit more fair and less instant combo-y than the BUG one which tends to just end games, and while that's what I want to bring to the tables sometimes, sometimes I just want to make modestly big boys and do a smash.
I guess her doubling the X value might make her better in the spellslinging style hmm
Hopefully mortarion is called morty, daemon primarch so they can make another version in BG called Morty, the pale king
I do wish there was an ork precon focusing on like ridiculous vehicles, tokens, and symmetric burn though I don't know if it would replace the nekrons or be a 5th precon
There's supposed to be a secret lair with Orks coming soon after the other 40k decks
@@jessemarek1782 that is not nearly enough dakka
Traynor the infinite has a perfect clone of Fulgrim in his collection that Fabius created.
I like the idea of kharn in nekusar
I think Ward might be to represent Invulnerable saves.
I'm disappointed death guard didn't have infect, and there was no undykng/reanimation orb.
Deathleaper; its weirdly worded right? Is says not "when this etb's" almost as if this is an ongoing effect
Because it is ongoing! It really is a Haste tribal card.
ppl really sleeping on the fact that Imotekh makes TWO artifact creature tokens with the first ability.
i love your tier list videos
i mean lucius IS wearing the skin of his enemies, hard to keep it all bright and purply if a bunch of FACE is covering it
also imotekh makes TWO tokens, pretty significant
im still sad the chaos deck wasnt 4 colors and boy i wish celestine was an angel cus her ability works so well in my angel deck
Great tier list! I think you nailed it.
Great Video!!!! I love all the Warhammer decks content.
I'm saddened Triumph of Saint Katherine is not a legend, but out of curiosity, where would you put it if it was ?
you did good
Tyranids should be slivers though
Alt art for the septer throne and crown
tbh trazyn the infinite is very cool mechanic-wise but is a huge miss flavor wise for me. I would much rather him stealing ur opponent's creatures and artifacts when they would die (bc thats something he often does - example being that one guard chad during the fall of cadia that i forget the name of), but he's also really really powerful so i guess that kinda makes up for it?
Ummmm, Trazyn does not have a loyalist primarch. Or even a primarch. But you were right that it is Fulgrim sort of. It's a clone of Fulgrim who unlike other primarch clones may actually have Fulgrim's primarch soul within him. But this clone is actually a decent dude. Regrets the traitors Fulgrim's actions. So maybe is a loyalist primarch
You should read the Infinite and the Divine.
So something you said in the video is very funny if you've read the Fabious Bile books (they are for the most part good, second one is a standout I think.) Not sure if you did it tongue in cheek :D.
Sadly Morty is the biggest miss for me. To simplify him he is just a unestopable force of sickness. But the card doesn't make any reference to how durable he is neither the plagues he can unleash. Sad, I really wanted to build a deck with him as a commander
Yeah but Morty is far down the List in Grandfather's eyes right now after disobeying his orders from Nurgle multiple times during his Godblight gambit and getting banished to the Warp so his being weak is appropriate really. Being a demon prince kinda sucks as all your power comes from the patron God
Have to say, I’m very disappointed Trayzen doesn’t steal stuff
Can’t disagree with you more on Lucius’ design. While I do agree that the art is disappointing, I can’t wait to do a Grismold-style deck where I give my opponents a bunch of tokens, then machine gun them down with a Blasting Station and the like while gaining value with other aristocrats pieces. Maybe that’s a pipe dream but it’s the commander idea that excites me most from the set, at least at first glance
The Emperor protects! We know you are an Imperial sympathizer for your own good.
sceptre of eternal glory should be in c tier at least as it is much better than szarekh in terms of usability.
I've said this before but the golden throne should've been a platinum angel effect... would've fit perfectly
Kharn the betrayer may be a B in this video, but its an S in my heart (and the 99)
Btw I think the S-Tier is just too much. Those cards does so much. The Comissar is a bit more fair, but still. I think the S-tier are so pushed. I myself tho love Imotekh, he's like a bit more restrictive but more powerful Tormod, which is one of my favourite legendary creature printed in many years.
Mortarion should have been Golgari!
Love you Vince but the mispronunciation of Abaddon drives me nuts. It’s abadd-on, not abba-don.
I'm just still salty that the imperium (which has been in a state of technological stagnation for 10k years, and whose entire political structure is dependant on enforced ignorance) got the Esper deck with Necrons being left with mono black. Mardu would've made far more sense for the imperium as a whole, with the whole fervent religious zealotry thing being central to it.
Sure, blue kinda works for some of the ad mech characters, but even most of the ad mech doesn't value knowledge in a way aligned with blue. And the inquisitors aren't really blue aligned on the whole either, with greyfax and Eisenhorn being somewhat exceptional in that regard.
I think Morty should have infect
As a necron player the deck got snubbed, across the board I'm really disappointed with most of the big names and references, especially the c'tan
I have also a necron army and the silent kind is really not representative…..
Slow down please I love your stuff you’re the best but sometimes you speak so fast it’s really hard to understand you it’s the American media is trouble with the very eloquent British accent have a great one and I ordered some of the two of the Warhammer 40 sets and I’m excited about getting them
If you think he's too fast, change the playback speed to .75 speed
Swarmlord precon is very bad as a deck pre-upgrade imo. Alot of inconsistencies and things in it. Definitely gets way better with upgrades, but sheesh this is by far the worst precon of the set out of the box.
It does have cards that go into a lot of other decks, but by itself...oof