Cleaning Catalytic Converters With Soap and Water -EricTheCarGuy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2014
- This is my second attempt to clean a catalytic converter, this time with soap and water. I've heard this method can work so I thought I would give it a try. One that that's important with these techniques is to do the procedure properly. On both my first attempt with this one and my last attempt with lacquer thinner, I didn't do the procedure properly and as a result I was not successful. I speak to those points in the video. So, if you have a catalytic converter code and it's not all broken up inside, you might consider trying this technique. You really don't have anything to loose if you do.
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I cleaned the cat on my 1996 Honda Del Sol after replacing the O2 sensors and still getting codes. I used a bucket with dish soap. When I got the Cat off I tried to lift it to the sun to see light through the internal grid in which I could see some blockage. Much like when Eric shines his flashlight through one end in the beginning of this video. After letting the Cat soak for about 2 hours I noticed various loose particles in the suds of the soap. Upon seeing this I began to plunge the cat up and down in the bucket. The more I plunged the cat the more particles I saw in the suds. After about 10 to 15 minutes of plunging the Cat, I pulled it from the bucket and used my hose outside and careful to not spray but rather simply rinsed the cat out. Then I let it sit on end for about another hour to be sure that it was relatively dry and reinstalled it. No Codes.
Nice!!!
Yep. It was bound to fail.
@UShallKnow be nice.
That is the obvious way to do it but some people lack obvious thinking lol
Joshua Bartlett look
A major thing you're missing is *agitation* of the water to get things moving. It looks like you just let a column of soapy water sit in the converter. It's like sitting a bunch of dishes in soapy water and expecting them to come clean without doing anything.
😬😬😬👍👍👍👍
scotty kilmer used laundry detergent. and most importantly he said THROW IT IN to the bucket. ya gotta throw it
How did he remove the detergent film after washing? Dawn is known to adhere to surfaces and is contraindicated for this purpose.
I think he also said to rinse and dry it before reinstalling.
And he said use a gallon of lacquer thinner not a quart
Love the fact you pointed out. The fact he said to throw it. Hilarious comment
I just came here after that video, funny stuff
In mine it worked. The only emissions test that not passed was catalyst. Let it overnight submerged in degreaser and in the morning clean well with current water. Then submerged it in dish washer soap and water for all the morning passing current water after. After 15 minutes in highway the catalyst passed. I notice that the post catalytic o2 sensor voltage it is now much more stable between 0,6v and 0,7v. This catalyst is the car original from 2003 and VW group. Thank you.
As a technician just starting out I'm finding these videos very informative. I will continue to research issues in the automotive field and strive for A.S.E. certification to achieve Master Mechanic status. Thanks Eric The Car Guy, I will be safe, have fun, and stay dirty...
Informative and Fun! Who could ask for more?! Eric is my 1st port of call for automotive "How to". Keep up the gr8 work Eric. Gene in the U.K
Eric, you and Scotty Kilmer are a class act! Stay that way guys!👍👍😁
I love your videos, cause you can show trial and error, a true troubleshooter👌🏻
EZ Off oven cleaner is specifically made to break up baked on carbon deposits. It's very similar to Sodium Hydroxide, so there's that, but I can attest that it is amazing for cleaning up nasty brake calipers and valve covers. If you do it, keep in mind that it's very caustic, so you'll need to neutralize it afterward with some vinegar or something acidic.
Today I take another crack at cleaning catalytic converters. Cleaning Catalytic Converters With Soap and Water -EricTheCarGuy
so i poured the soap into my gas tank ... how long should i run the engine ?
KingBain
Until the bubbles coming out from the tailpipe turn a dark brownish color.
KingBain don't go get to port your engine by pouring playground sand through the throttle body...whatever you do, don't use beach sand,it's not clean enough to use😃
wouldn't you need to rinse it out with water after soaking, to remove the detergent and then let it dry out?
Fun failure. Who do not like bubbles?
You absolutely can not..I repeat "can not" leave ANY soap and water inside the converter. Always thoroughly rinse the inside of the converter at least three times and dry out using air. Installing the converter full of soap and water will certainly finish it off making any chance of it working null and void. In all my years as a mechanic I have learned that anything you leave behind will bake itself onto the interior of the honeycomb making it 10 times worse than it was to start with..especially soaps and detergents !
Any dyi methods that you recommend and best it not by removing away the cat converter?
Eric I think you should have given it more time as if you look anywhere on the internet it will tell you that a catalyst converter ( and therefore the catalyst metals in it ) need to be at a very high temperature before it actually starts working. The fact that you could see the bubbles shooting out at the exhaust means that the exhaust was not even hot enough to vaporizer it. This test should really be done after a long ride in my opinion but other than that great job in testing the hypothesis and trying to cover all of the variables.
Nice to hear you collaborating with Scotty. A few of you guys are very good and it's good to acknowledge and coordinate with others, instead of trying to bash each other, like the rest of the world does. I learned early not to badmouth competition. but I figured those days are over in this current dog eat dog world. I may try this as I just got that code, just before getting smog. Of course I always DIY but asked a shop for diagnostic and was just told, '95% it just needs new converter', so I asked to diagnose vacuum leak, sensor or converter...'let me know if you want it replaced.'....ugh. I'm going to try this cleaning but a better idea might be some degreaser I use. I've cleaned oil, engine compartment, engine pieces, it's amazing and probably more like the chemical they now sell for this (CRC, etc.).
Eric, very disappointed you did not rinse it. If you are still getting bubbles out of the back, lots of steam, that means the cat is significantly restricted. Either retest after rinsing thoroughly or a nice long drive on the motorway.
Timothy Giles The bubbles happened during the warm up period. They were gone when I did the temperature measurements.
Great job Eric - should have known.
Rinsing thoroughly before heating the cat would be advised.
Dawn dish detergent contains several ingredients that have the potential to polymerize at elevated temperatures including but not limited to salts, sulfates, glucose(sugar) and magnesium that could poison the catalysts and or impair the catalytic action by coating the catalysts and substrates.
Agreed, EricTheCarGuy 1. wished you rinsed it (soap film is now being burned on the surface layers) and 2. Let it dry, water evaporating significantly cools temperatures. Maybe follow-up after a long drive.
So much for critical thinking, he has no success with adding a coating by baking it into the converter. Should we be surprised by that, considering its a 93 model with no clear coat and valve clatter. My advice since he doesn't have to get inspected is to hollow out that restrictive #catastrophicconverter If it reduces exhaust efficiency , then it also reduces fuel efficiency so where is the real gain for the environment.
With the bubbles coming out, I suspect there was still liquid inside the CAT. The liquid evaporating out of the CAT would lower the temperature on the output side. More miles should have been driven, and all the bubbling gone prior to testing the temps.
He should have cleaned it out with water first
That was worth a try, thanks for documenting it. From here I went to a WIKI article on catalytic converters that was equally interesting.
Great Effort Sir! I myself after soaking would have flushed it with a 3/4" garden hose for several minutes, then blown it out with a garden blower for several minutes. Better chance of results and less moisture blowing through exhaust system. Otherwise 10 for 10! E for Effort!
I really liked the bubbles from the exhaust. Keep It up Eric good job. I think im gonna replace my Cat Converter
It worked great for my saturn , but we actually tested the emissions not the temperature of the cat. And we soaked it for 24 hours not 1/2 an hour, and used LAUNDRY detergent not dish soap.
Great Pointers
Dawn is my go to when it comes to cleaning my hands after working on anything car related.
An oddity is, doing an engine swap on a Chevy 350 with a broken block in the middle of -14F weather. A nose having clear, runny snot, works just as well. If I knew chemistry well. I'd be able to figure out the compounds between the two that work so well.
Thanks Eric, I never usually comment on your video's but I've always watched them on both channels , Always looking forward to new ETCG video's ;)
Scotty said: let it soak overnight, all of you missed this.
Eric, you are doing great work in your channel and I'd suggest you stop bringing others' names or trying to debunk other people, you seem such a nice person and your channel is such a great. I SUPPORT YOUR CHANNEL
Thanks for giving this a shot! I have a bad cat on my Tacoma and its one of those manifold/cat combos, super expensive.
Hey Eric. Soaking my cat in powered laundry soap for 8 hours worked for me. Next time ill try the dish soap. I had the cat insufficent code on my Jetta. Re set the OBD 2 code several times and it kept coming back on. Finally Califorina DMV wanted there every other year smog. The laundry soap did the trick. Thank you Eric & Scotty for all the amazing videos. This wont work if your honey comb structor is broken down inside your cat. Only if its clogged.
I enjoyed this experiment and learned a good bit. Thanks man.
It seems to me that a rinse cycle or two, with clear water, along with a thorough drying perhaps with a wet/dry vac would have been a good idea.
learn a lot from your videos man, keep em' coming.
What worked for me is when I had a turbo go bad and dumped oil onto the CAT, I soaked the CAT in hot water and Dawn dish soap just like Eric did for 24 hours. But when I took it out of the bucket I back rinsed the CAT with a garden hose and watched black flakes come out. Then I dried it out with some compressed air. Installed it, and it definitely freed up the tremendous back pressure it had before.
I hope u keep on making these types of videos. Weather it works or not you try an show the results. Its videos like this that show your trust worthy
I think maybe it would also be a good idea after you clean with soapy water to rinse the catalytic converter with De-ionized water to rinse off any metals and other impurities that might be in the tap water, because the heat of the exhaust might cause those new metals to diffuse into the precious metals and lessen the effect of the precious metals
Eric you did not put enough thought into this test. You should have rinsed the converter very very thoroughly and then dried it very very thoroughly. Only then would it be of any good.
oracla I warmed it up after the installation which burned off all the excess. The bubbles happened during that warm up period.
EricTheCarGuy Still, that "burning off" might have left a film on the active surface, that could impede catalytic performance. A few minutes of rinsing with clean - or even better - distilled water, and you would remove all doubt in this test. In any case, I personally think it would not make any difference. Even the lacquer thinner seem highly unlikely to solve converter problems. I am sure you will find this to be true, since your methods are way more scientific than those of lets say... Scotty ;) No offence!
EricTheCarGuy not rinsing leaves the detergent that leaves a tacky surface that will be worse than before. A good rinse and then try...it's not burning pdf the detergent it's building up even faster...
Craig Cundiff Then he should have just DRY CLEANED the damn thing.
QuantumRift that'll work...just don't lose the ticket...lol
This experiment was very valuable in that we learned something from this. I wished it had worked but maybe someone out there will find a solution that we can use, other than buying a new one.
Water can rust the thin metal sheet even with detergeant. Use diesel, fuel or WD-40 with brake cleaner and dry air to finish. And also wearing proper dust mask too.
Very helpful thanks Eric.
Thanks for sharing George Kloony, I mean Eric the car guide. Love to watch.
I think I would have let it soak in degreaser/soap, then pressure wash through it and use a blower to dry it before reinstalling it. Eric the bubbles guy 😋
Thanks for doing the research!
I'm a tractor trailer driver. I took my DPF filter off and boiled it in woolite for over an hour then ran straight boiling water through it to wash woolite out. I baked it dry for 4 hours on a steel plate. Was perfectly clean after. DPF filter is just a giant catalytic converter.
Eric, i did this 4 days ago but I first cleaned the inside out with 1 full can of carb cleaner, i then boiled 10 gallons of water in a old turkey fryer and added the dawn and several cups of cascade automatic dishwasher detergent soaked overnight I then thoroughly rinsed it out with plain water from a hose with a spray nozzle. ..I did not test the inlet and outlet Temps but the p0420 code is now gone
Nice systematic, valid attempts that most of us would attempt. While rinsing and good long drive might be recommended, I don't think it's about to bring this to any wildly different conclusion. I'm also "vintage" with my old 80s & 93 Toyotas but in an area that requires testing on OBDII vehicles, and I'd suggest that eventually you might do the environmentally correct thing and fit a different replacement converter.
You always tell Brian what to do, yet you never show him!!!! Show him some love.
I cannot see it working when it is full of soap. Would just clog up again. I would of rinsed it out.
When the exhaust isn't at full heat load and is full enough with water it wouldn't be able to reach full temperature. Water as it evaporates has a cooling effect.
Just wondering if he would have rinsed it out then taken a long high speed run if the results would've been different.
He didn't rinse it... wrong how is going to remove the clog
Sir Underbridge uhh no
I've cleaned cat converter with laundry detergent and water and it did work. Make sure you blow out any crud/water before reinstalling.
It did work a little better in the ammonia solution. That was a good idea to try. I would have like to seen it shook around periodically in the solution to help break up the build up of particles inside the converter.
I think just letting it sit in the solution isn’t enough to remove build up. Some type of flow through it or pressure through it might work better.
Just spitballing though.
An ultrasonic cleaner would be freaking interesting.
+bluetorch13 Absolutely . The marine heat exchangers I work with sometimes require that method . It isn't cheap though .
Just subbed good vid,It at least showed all aspects of what happens when trying to fix a vehicle,Either good or bad good to still see.
Good tips, thanks a lot. I'm just wondering though, you know degreaser like brake and clutch cleaner or carb / throttle cleaner sometimes, wouldn't it be better to soak it overnight in that? that stuff's brilliant at getting any gunk or crap off, wouldn't need much, just lie it down on its side and let it soak.
My favorite two mechanics, in cahoots!
I add a “gallon” of lacquer thinner to between 5-8 gallons of gasoline. Before oil changes is my rule of thumb , to keep the cats cleaner and clog free.
I do it the smarter way. I put a 5 gallon can with fresh fuel in the trunk with the gallon of lacquer thinner. Then with a half tank or less I head to the interstate. At a rest stop or before entering the highway I pure that gallon of lacquer thinner into my gas tank with the engine at operating temperature.
I drive with the overdrive “off” until the fuel is nearly depleted. I carry the 5 gallon can with me just in case I need it. I have done this a few times now, and I have not needed it. No sputtering, no hesitation with my engine, 4.6L Mustang 2007.
All catalytic converters get dirty then they can get clogged. When they get clogged 2 things could happen;
1. The exhaust pressure could blow the clog out of the system.
2. The exhaust pressure blows the clog along with the internal catalyst materials out of the system. Causing a catastrophic failure.
Hey there Eric did you think about using a pressure washer with one of those hoses that come off of it that you put into a bucket of soap water and then spraying the pressure washer or through the catalytic converter.
How funny a vechicle that blows bubbles lol I love your videos very educational keep it up my man and thanks
Dude you make such good educational videos. You should make like a DVD set or something.
Thanks for the video!
Remember those old palmolive dish soap commercials? 'Madge, I soaked in it'.
I don't know if this would work or not. But I would pre-treat the element before dunking in suds with a sludge cutting solvent. Then dunk in a strong detergent (not Dawn) like dishwasher liquid and hot, hot water. In fact, best thing would be in a large, metal vessel with a small flame or electric heating element under it to keep it hot for several hours of the soaking. Then, after soaking, blast out the element with a hose with an adjustable nozzle and use the cone shaped water spray pattern, not toe high pressure stream so as not to fracture the element. Bast from both ends then drain and dry in the sun until dried. Then install the converter. If this method did not restore the converter, I would say nothing would.
Eric, how long did you let the car warm up before testing the temp? And what state are you in? Here in Idaho, we only have two counties that require emissions testing.
Throw it in the Bucket. If you don't throw it, it's not going to work, scotty says so... BOOM
Try soaking it in heated water in an ultrasonic cleaner in the solution of soapy water and amonia. It should penetrate and release the stuck on garbage. Also I wouldn't worry too much about using harsh chemicals, as gasoline is full of tons of noxious, toxic, and corrosive elements that you already know regularly pass through the catalytic converter with every revolution of the motor.
Thanks.
Thank you for proving ole Scotty wrong once again.
It's not like you to not have a resolution in a video but it's nice to see that sometimes parts die and they just can't be fixed. Great try, very thorough..
Interesting experiment!
After reading other comments, I see there is an opinion that there are inert solid plaques on the active surface of the cat. For that I would recommend an ultrasonic bath. As some suggested, various solvents could also be used. Maybe acetone would work nice, also it's easy to come by.
I have a 97 XJ (California) which always passed smog and the last test was the best one yet. The rest of the exhaust does need work and in doing so the catalytic converter will be out. I think I’m going to use the Dawn, it doesn’t need it but if this will extend the life of the unit it’s worth a shot. Guess I will have to get some Lawrence Welk tapes from eBay and play when when I do first drive it.
I had P0420 on my Impreza 2000 RS which is very common issue for Subaru. Another forum member try this method, worked for him so I gave it a try and it has been working for a year now without CEL. I bought 5 lbs of food type citric acid on Amazon, boiled big water pot, mixed in the solution, poured in the cat,msoaked for 3 days. Black soot can be seen in the solution, remounted to my car, reset CEL, drove until all sensors are ready status, and P0420 is gone for good, so far 1 year. I'd like you to try this method to see if your cat clear up.
Before that I tried extended O2 bung, replaced rear O2 sensor -all failed.
How much citric acid did you use? Do you think a little bit of baking soda would help? Baking soda mixed with the citric acid will make it agitate and bubble up!
Rinse rinse rinse... You just baked on a plasticized "soap" coating all over the catalyst in the converter, so it should be no wonder it failed to work. Rinse first, then give it a chance to dry off with exhaust running through it. Then test temperatures.
i used a nozzle with my sand blaster, it was so clean when i finished i could see right through the substrate, it looked like it wasnt even there.
I watched Scott kilmer's video and read the write-up below it. You were supposed to dry it out fully before re-installing.
Oh oh, This is the first time I've seen Eric do something wrong. LOL 😂 😂
The bubbles out the tail pipe was the funniest. I'm still laughing.
I think it did make a difference... You should have done a smog pretest before soaking the cat and another smog test after soaking the cat. Thanks for the video !!
Now here's another thought I've had for cleaning an old cat: "run it" outside the car with propane. I got this thought while tinkering with a vintage Coleman Catalytic Heater. These liquid fueled heaters are little more than a fuel tank, wick, and a dome-shaped platinum catalyst burner. The one I was working on had some carbon buildup on the top of the dome (one of the cooler spots). I successfully cleaned it by lighting the heater, allowing it to fully warm up, and blowing propane on the soiled areas using an unlit torch. I heated these spots to slightly higher than the normal operating temperature-- fully warmed up the burner has a slight red glow to it; I spot cleaned it at orange hot for 1-2 seconds while slowly moving the torch around the burner. The end result was a heater that looked nicer and runs better. Since it essentially functions the same way the cat on a car does, I wonder if a similar procedure on an automotive cat would have similar results.
There are already many comments on rinsing it thoroughly after the soak but how about some agitation during soaking? Soak time may be shortened if there is some agitation - maybe by pumping the soapy water with ammonia through the converter while it is soaked??
Something worth trying is using compressed air.
It's definatly different but i cleaned a diesel particle filter out of an international maxxforce7 that was completely clogged.. full with water, now air threw, fill with water, blow air threw again. Kept doing this and eventually the water started flowing really well. After about 30-45 minutes it was completely clean and clear. Mind you the DPF from this truck was much larger and collected diesil sutt, BUT it's still worth trying.
Hi Eric,
I heard you can drill a hole in the Cat and spray Carby Cleaner inside, lets it sit for awhile and then startup to blow out the broken down deposits. Can you confirm if that is a possible solution?
Thanks for your channel..😎😎😎
I tried this with a 2004 Honda Accord. Soaking the cat overnight in soapy water and then rinsing well (very well) at first did not seem to do the trick. Put the cat back on and shortly threw another CEL code. HOWEVER, I reset the CEL and it never tripped again (not for a few months anyway). I thoroughly recommend soaking in detergent overnight, rinsing well, and re-installing. It worked for me.
I wonder what would have happened if the measurement of heat had been taken after say 1/2 hour after driving-so as to give the luquid to completeley clear-that could lower temperatures couldn't it?
Eric, the bubbles from the dawn soap may have been pushed to the outlet of the cat. by the exhaust gases, the bubbles may have cooled the outlet portion of the cat
Eric, for fun you could hook it up to a pond pump and have the detergent mix being pumped through the cat for 24 hrs, moving liquid :-))
The detergents would probably eat up the pump.
Cool video, thanks for trying that out! I've never heard of this before, but it seems that if you have oil or grease it might help, but if it's carbon build up I don't think it'll help. I'm really surprised you didn't rinse and dry the catalytic converter. soap has things in it you don't want to heat up to 400+ degrees because they could leave a coating on the catalyst metals making it in effective. Chances are that your 20 year old cat is past it's useful life anyways, but just a thought.
Got a good laugh on my 30 minute lunch break and some knowledge.
have you tried cleaning in a hot tank with ethylene glycol?
On parts I've done - admittedly small parts - it really takes that gunk and varnish right off. But in theory shouldn't attack the platinum or substrate?
Clean it with a piece of rebar. Cleans great.
I assumed you rinsed it thoroughly before reinstalling it?
Also, I would like to see someone to try steam cleaning a catalytic converter.
Hi Eric , I've used Awsom to clean air filters Gunked up with diesel exhaust with great success. Do you think that this would work ?
My gut feeling is that if you expect carbon deposits, use an organic solvent such as xylene, mineral spirits...etc. Lye could also work effectively to clean the catalyst surface. Pd and Pt are highly inert metals and will not easily react. However, I'd be somewhat concerned about surfactants as they may contaminate and deactivate the catalyst surface. What also occured to me is heating the catalytic converter to burn off the surface contaminants, say in a charcoal grill?.
Eric - I've read that a dilute solution of Citric Acid and water is also another way of cleaning a CC without damaging it. Maybe try that next!
Well I'm only a few years later this video 😄
I wanted to ask if you had any experience with the Mr Gasket Cataclean orvhad heard anything good or bad about it.
I'm trying to do a workaround of my intermittent p420 code on my 2002 Toyota Sienna for this year's smog pass.
I've seen your other cat cleaning videos and I'm not really sure I want to throw a gallon of lacquer thinner in my tank and taking my cat off is beyond my capability.
Thanks.
If you have bubbles coming out the tailpipe, the converter is not dry yet. Boiling off all that leftover water would prevent it from warming up and residues that may get left behind could re-gunk-up the converter you just tried cleaning. You might have wanted to rinse and let it drain/dry before putting it back on.
Ideally, there should have been something circulating your soapy water through the converter during it soak... or maybe a vibration motor to help knock anything that comes off the substrate loose.
If the soapy water trick really works, every little bit helps.
ETCG...Would cleaning in an ultrasonic cleaner work? They use USC for cleaning gold and silver jewelry? USC are also great for cleaning carbs and intake/exhaust valves. Thanks for taking the time to produce great vids. Best to you and yours.
+ericthecarguy I've got a 96 Ranger that I'm thinking about deleting the cat on, I love your videos they are so informative. Is there anyway you can show us on your live data reader if the o2 simulators and or the sparkplug de-fouling hack on the o2 sensor actually work? I know it tricks the computer but does it do anything bad on live data?
Would a rinse with a hose, or power sprayer help? Or if one has a big enough sonic cleaner with the Dawn, and amonia solution.
I've used a small sonic cleaner for carbs with degreaser, and the carbs come out squeaky clean.
Eric, I think you should have rinsed it a lot better and I would not have even tested it until ALL the moisture was removed. Take it out on the highway then retest the temps for us.
FYI - Rinsing the dawn dish soap out of the Cat after a good soak is really challenging. I've put many gallons of water through it rinsing but the suds keep coming... Getting the soap out takes some real persistence.
i like your videos, not sure if it was pointed out but in chemistry using hot water speeds up chemical reactions. i would like to think hot water amonia liberal amount of dawn and a little agitation the soaked over night would do something. Thank for your work.
Do you rinse the converter out with plain water after soaking? Do you think that the hardness of water might be a factor?
I know you've said it again and again that you waited until the bubbles were gone to check the temperature, but I think this converter needs to bake for a while to get the catalyst to get completely dry. The clips we saw still had steam coming out of the exhaust, which suggests that the water had not quite boiled off. The catalyst has to see at least 400 degrees for the reaction to happen and seeing high 100s to low 200s would also point to water boiling off and cooling the catalyst, especially when you're seeing inlet temperatures of over 200 degrees higher than the exit.
At my work, our buses have DPF canisters that occasionally clog with soot and need to be manually cleaned out and rinsed. It takes at least a full regeneration cycle (45 mins) to boil the water out of the catalyst cannister and this is with the engine trying to reach 1200 deg F in the canister.
I'll echo the call for a retest after the car's been driven for a bit.
I like and watch both guys videos.
I think there's a piece to this puzzle that should be addressed and that's the exhaust leak issue.
An exhaust leak just before the cat would make the test inconclusive.
Give it away Eric, you are not in the same league as Scotty!
I cleaned my with grinder, crowbar and welder. It worked.
Awesome I have that problem with my Suzuki 2000 Vitra
I'm thinking of doing this on a '14 focus. I was toying around with attaching a random orbital sander to add some agitation and let it sit for sevral hours. I might use a larger quantity dawn as well, and maybe some vinegar.