Great info. I have 2 questions: 1. when do you need water heaters in parallel ? 2. where do you install expansion tank if you have backflow prevention nipple on wh cold ? Thank you very much
Install water heaters in parallel when you need a lot of hot water all at the same time since both will be identical units with the same heat setting. The benefit to it is that they will both wear out at the same time and the system will be more balanced giving you a higher flow of water and less pressure drop. The problem is that you can never change the settings individually and you can't use two different brands or sizes of tanks. You would probably want an expansion tank on that setup because you would have both units producing a lot of hot water. More often than not an expansion tank is not "needed" it's just a good idea and required by code in many municipalities. It is meant for a "closed" system, that is, if you have a check valve anywhere after the meter that would prevent pressure from going back out to the street main or well, then you have a system that is closed from the main supply and in that case you would need an expansion tank to be able to receive the additional pressure caused by heating. However tanks have a pressure relief valve on them that is designed to open at certain pressures to prevent pipes or the tank from bursting. The benefit of a two tank system is that you have two relief valves that can help prevent anything from bursting and an expansion tank is a redundant safety feature. Most expansion tanks are installed on the cold water side as the nipples you are referring to are not true check valves and will not completely block water like a check valve so the expansion tank will still do it's job.
How to install flood prevention drain pipe if I am on 2nd floor of a condo, and WH is located in a small closet outside next to patio? Currently it is missing a pan after we moved in so we also need to drain / or somehow lift the WH up and insert a pan.
Yeah, so you have to shut it off, drain it out of the bottom silcock via a hose to outside and then, if you don't need additional height for the slope of the drain pipe, disconnect the two lines going into the hot and cold outlets, lift it and have someone else slide the pan underneath it. If you do need to raise the tank to a new height, so that the drain line can overcome an obstacle or have the proper slope (1/4" fall per foot), then best to pull it out, build a base of cinder blocks or something equally structurally sound, and then put the water heater back in. Before shutting off the water, connect the garden hose and open up the silcock to flush out sediment from the bottom. It will help the tank and make the draining go faster. Watch your back!
@@MyFortressConstruction Great instruction. The trick is where to let the flood water go - or we need to tap into another drain pipe somewhere probably only way. Cannot let water go outside and drop to people downstairs.
@@jamescc2010 if you have gutters you could run it into a gutter otherwise yeah find a drain that is lower than the water heater or get a really long hose so you can drop it all the way down to the ground.
How about installing a gas water heater first (not turned on, unless the power is out) and then in series to a hybrid)? Would there be problem with bacteria because of intermittent gas water heater use?
Interesting idea and should work fine. Since it's a closed system and should be chlorinated/disinfected by the city, bacteria growth shouldn't be higher in a gas unit. If you were in the UK then their system is different than ours.
If you're going to mix types of water heaters just put the most cost efficient water heater first and then the second less efficient water heater as the surge load and keep them both on
Yes, legionella is one of those things that should be taken care of via water treatment, but if it's well water, it could be more of an issue. You could "Shock treat" it by turning it up every once in a while, but I would think that different areas might struggle with it more.
Yeah, I can't remember what video this is, but I disagree with the people who want to heat the water halfway in one tank and all the way in the next tank. If one is just room temperature, that's fine. It's just nice warm water where they thrive. So that's what I did on my series water heaters. One of them is off and I will turn it on if I ever have a lot of guests. The second one is set to, I think 120°F.
Yep. Now, if they didn't use a moisture barrier between the soil and the concrete, and if this had rain or other water running under it, then it would be necessary to use PT wood. But because the concrete is dry and it's in a weather protected cover, there won't be any moisture there to cause dry rot. However, if you have termites, then you need to take care of them regardless of the wood you have, because most homes only have a PT sill plate (generally because framing goes up while the concrete is still curing or they're used on exterior walls and have to deal with moisture pushing in if the base isn't sealed well), everything else is dry and tasty. At least you'd be able to see the termites munching on these.
Yo voy a responder en español porque necesito practicar más y su nombre me da confidencia que me entenderás. Jaja. Debes de tener 4 tubos independiente de los otros (aquí en este vídeo están conectados pero no es correcto del código). La mejor manera, si tu código de la ciudad te permite, es terminar el drenaje de la válvula de presión 2" arriba de la bandeja de drenaje. El tubo que viene de la bandeja tiene que terminar afuera del edificio o sobre un drenaje del piso. Estos códigos pueden ser diferentes depende en su ciudad pero hay muchas explicaciones en la red.
You can have any size you want and the only thing that would play a part in the pressure/volume would be the diameter of the inlet and outlet. Once your tank fills with water it will pressurize equally.
Thanks for the video. I have seen a few other videos of water heaters in series and there are so many comments from plumbers saying it's wrong, against code, will wear out the water heaters prematurely etc. Basically saying they need to be done in tandem. Thoughts?
Yeah, so code does determine what you can do in your area. I'm not sure why plumbers are so staunchly against tanks in series, other than it's "one of those things". Both systems have pros and cons and shouldn't be used as a "one size fits all". Heaters in series are good for those that have fluctuations in usage, such as a retreat center (where these are located). If you have a small group, then you only need one heater running, if you need more hot water, you just turn up the first unit. It doesn't require balancing of the pipes and is very customizable. It's easy to add another unit because they can be different sizes and models, and you can turn the first unit to a low temp to just act as a tempering tank and allow the second tank to heat water faster. The con is that the first tank "can" wear out sooner if you always leave them both on fully, as the first tank will be taking the cold water and heating it up and then passing it into the second tank fully heated. The second tank won't have to heat anything if that is the case. So the first tank will wear out sooner, but that also means the second tank will last longer (so in my mind this all balances out). Units that are done in tandem have the benefit of both wearing out at the same time (theoretically) and producing more hot water because they are required to be the same model/tank size and have the supply line and hot line to be almost perfectly balanced between the two tanks (same length and bends in the pipe going into and out of either tank). Pro is if you are always going to be using a massive amount of hot water, (no fluctuations in needs, because you can't turn down one of the tanks in a tandem setup), then tandem makes sense. Con is that it can cost more to install because of how precise the setup needs to be in order for there not to be backflow issues. Basically, you can't just grab another unit and plumb in to your first unit if you decide you need more hot water, whereas a unit in series can be added easily if there's gas or power available. Summary: Series is great for fluctuations in usage or easily adding more capacity to an existing water heater setup. Tandem is great if it's a new build and hot water needs are constantly high.
There is not a difference in removing a water heater out of series than what you would do with a singular unit. You turn off both heaters, shut off gas and disconnect gas line, flush the tank for a minute via the drain valve, then shut off water coming in, allow it to drain completely, then disconnect it from incoming and outgoing water and remove it.
@@LegitRunescaper Yes, If you are replacing the entire control valve, then you only need to drain the tank that you are working on (the other tank will drain a little until it reaches pressure equilibrium). However, if you aren't removing a part that goes into the tank of the unit, then you don't need to drain it at all. I'm sure you have already checked, but if it's just the thermo coupling, then you just replace it, not the whole valve. Merry Christmas!
Why isn't there a check valve in the lines from the pans to prevent the relief valve from forcing water back into the pans and overflowing from there? One of the maintenance steps is to yearly open the check valve and close it. That would have full home water pressure going out the check valve lines and possibly back into the pans. Code might allow that design, but that doesn't mean it should be done that way. In my area, drip loops are required for Romex going into a box, but it makes a lot of sense to keep water leaking into the house from following the wiring and going into the box.
It wouldn't be a bad idea except regular check valves are made to be used in a pressurized system and wouldn't open up from the small amount of pressure that would be coming down the 1" drain line. Even a proper sewage check valve, which would be difficult to find for a 1" line, could malfunction and destroy the purpose of the pans, which is to relay water to the outside in case of a tank rupture. As for yearly opening a check valve, I think you are either referring to the sillcock in the bottom of the tank or to the TandP (pressure relief) valve. If you are referring to the relief valve, you only open it for a couple of seconds to make sure it will close again. Not enough water to backflow into the pans. And if you're referring to the sillcock, you generally attach a hose to it so it's not going into the pan anyways. Regardless, this system isn't to code, as the TandP valve should be piped to the outside and not to the pvc pipes.
Thanks so much for this helpful video. I have two questions. First off, I have two heaters in my house, and I think they're in series, but I'm not absolutely sure, and I'm not absolutely sure which one is taking in the outside water and which one is feeding the house. I turned way down the heat on tank "A" and it doesn't seem to have affected my house. Tank "A" is also the one with the overflow tank. I think this is the one receiving water from the outside because turning its thermostat down didn't affect my water and because I think tank "B's" pressure can be relieved by simply flowing back into tank "A". Does that sound right? Second, I have a small household and I don't really think I need two heaters running. Is it better to turn heater A off and let heater B do all the work, or is it better to let heater A do some of the work, and let heater B do the rest of the work? I'm guessing it's slightly more energy efficient to just turn heater A off, and probably less dangerous because a warm heater A would just foster legionella.
So, you are correct in that it's more efficient to have one heater if you don't need two. Are the two heaters next to each other? If so then you should see a line going from Tank A into B. Water heaters in series have the hot water of the first heater go into the cold water inlet port of the second heater. You should see an H or C stamped/written next to the inlet/outlet ports on the heaters. It sounds like you did indeed shut off the first heater in the series, but it's possible that your tanks could serve different parts of the house (heater A serves washing machine, hall bath, etc. and Heater B serves Kitchen, master, 2nd bath). Legionella like 70-120 degree F. so if your water is below that temperature in the first thank then you won't have anything to worry about, especially if the second tank is set high enough to kill them (140 deg. F. will kill legionella in about 30 minutes). If it is truly a concern then emptying out the first tank and removing it completely from the series would be recommended, after all, a second tank could just be another leak waiting to happen.
@@MyFortressConstruction Yeah, at first I just assumed one heater was for upstairs and one was for downstairs because that's how the air conditioners are (I live in Texas.), but when I turned one off, the whole house still had hot water. Then I realized it was a silly assumption and I started looking at it more closely. They're definitely in series. I will check for the engraved H and C when I get the chance. I think generally I'd like to have my tank set at 120ºF, so it's not really high enough to kill them if they've proliferated in the first tank. I hate it when scalding water comes out of the taps, and enjoy the feeling of safety that comes from the 120º water, so I'm inclined to just let the second tank do all the work. But I do like the thought that I could heat up the second tank and have a ton of hot water if I needed it. You make a good point about it just being another hazard, but I'm so paranoid about water damage, that I think I will keep a good eye on it. I'm looking for a good deal on a water detection system, so I expect to have that installed in the next year or so, and once I get that, I think I will be mostly safe from the extra hazards of an extra tank. Thanks so much for your advice.
@@MyFortressConstruction Oh, I forgot to mention that, yes, they are both right next to each other. And it's clear they are in series. I can see a single pipe coming and leaving from the pair, and then a single pipe connecting them. I will check the engravings when I get the chance, but from all I've learned, I'm pretty sure I turned off the first in the series. Oh, and yesterday the piezo-electric ignitor came in the mail and I installed it on the second one, and tested it. The pilot light starts instantly, so I feel good about leaving it off. That reminds me, I should probably shut off the gas to it when I go to check the engravings.
@@mitchjohnson4714 Yeah, good. So another option is to install a tank booster on the second unit (the one actually supplying hot water to the house). It's basically a thermostatic mixing valve and it mixes in cold water into the hot water that is leaving the tank so that you can set your tank to 140º but the water would be 120º getting to your fixtures. It's usually what I recommend if someone wants a little more hot water but doesn't need an extra water heater.
Same way you would a single. Just open up the first one while pressure is coming in (everything turned off of course), and then open up the second one once the first is done flushing.
Now that I think about it, the gas should be installed down stream of the hybrid, so it's tank is sanitized by the hybrid, then during time of electrical outages, you can turn on the gas heater and it would take over. I would also assume this would give you more 1st hour capacity for the hybrid during normal hybrid only usage.
You wouldn't want the first tank to be heating in this setup as the water would be cooled down by the second tank. You would have to have hot water in the last tank and optionally use the first tank. You don't have to worry about sanitation if the water is being treated. Cold water lines never see heat and do not have a higher bacterial count. If you're on well water then it's possible, but most of the time the water is filtered plenty by the ground and whatever inline filter is being used.
However if the gas heater is turned on and the hybrid is off, wouldn't you have the same problem of emptying hot water into the hybrid's tank? Would this result in getting lukewarm water? I think you would have install a bypass valve. So when the power is out, turn on the gas heater And switch over a plumbing value.
@@kathyorr4737 If you're going to use a recirculation pump then you would either have to bypass the first, if not in use or use both, or place the recirculation pump in-between the two with a check valve in-between the pump and the first tank.
Since a recirculation pump doesn't work when the power is out, I like the idea of a gas heater first and the hybrid downstream. When the electrical power is off, simply turn on the gas water heater and rotate a bypass valve within the series pipe to bypass the hybrid. Reverse order when the power comes on.
I see plastic drain valve. This tends to get wear out and get leak. Better use metal valve. Next time you drain the tank u may want to replace it with metal.
Hey guys. Please don't install water heaters or plumbing like this video explains. You can never have two tpr valve terminations joined together. You can never have them connected to the pan drain line. You can never have a tpr termination through PVC. CPVC or better ONLY. TPR valve shoots at 210F. PVC rated for 140F The plumber he mentioned saying this was ok obviously does not have a license. Section 504.6 of the International Plumbing Code (IPC) and Section P2804.6.1 of the International Residential Code (IRC). 49 states adopted IRC and 38 IPC. Most of the other states have their own code that says this is incorrect setup. So only you live in Wisconsin, find another channel or ask a home inspector. Guaranteed this gets flagged when they try to sell this home. I hate to be negative. This is America so you can say what you want, but I hope someone reads this comment and does some of their own research. Thanks for trying to educate anyways and good luck to you.
Great comment. You informed and stated some important things without trash talking (too much) ;). In this instance the owner was the one who made this decision as he said he didn't want any more pipes coming out of the front of the building. The plumber said that it broke the aforementioned rules, but that it was "ok" as in, "We do what the customer wants since it's not attached to any public water system". That is the only reason it was rigged this way. Keep being awesome and doing a good job!
@MyFortressConstruction I would agree that home owner can state what they want but code is code.. Plus running any dual water heater setup in a series is a waste! The first water heater will always get over worked compared to the other one and semi defeats the purpose
Great info.
I have 2 questions:
1. when do you need water heaters in parallel ?
2. where do you install expansion tank if you have backflow prevention nipple on wh cold ?
Thank you very much
Install water heaters in parallel when you need a lot of hot water all at the same time since both will be identical units with the same heat setting. The benefit to it is that they will both wear out at the same time and the system will be more balanced giving you a higher flow of water and less pressure drop. The problem is that you can never change the settings individually and you can't use two different brands or sizes of tanks. You would probably want an expansion tank on that setup because you would have both units producing a lot of hot water. More often than not an expansion tank is not "needed" it's just a good idea and required by code in many municipalities. It is meant for a "closed" system, that is, if you have a check valve anywhere after the meter that would prevent pressure from going back out to the street main or well, then you have a system that is closed from the main supply and in that case you would need an expansion tank to be able to receive the additional pressure caused by heating. However tanks have a pressure relief valve on them that is designed to open at certain pressures to prevent pipes or the tank from bursting. The benefit of a two tank system is that you have two relief valves that can help prevent anything from bursting and an expansion tank is a redundant safety feature. Most expansion tanks are installed on the cold water side as the nipples you are referring to are not true check valves and will not completely block water like a check valve so the expansion tank will still do it's job.
@@MyFortressConstruction Thank you very much for great info
Technical those tanks are in series
@@joshuabennett723 He was asking about parallel/tandem, not the water heaters in this video that were done in series.
How to install flood prevention drain pipe if I am on 2nd floor of a condo, and WH is located in a small closet outside next to patio?
Currently it is missing a pan after we moved in so we also need to drain / or somehow lift the WH up and insert a pan.
Yeah, so you have to shut it off, drain it out of the bottom silcock via a hose to outside and then, if you don't need additional height for the slope of the drain pipe, disconnect the two lines going into the hot and cold outlets, lift it and have someone else slide the pan underneath it. If you do need to raise the tank to a new height, so that the drain line can overcome an obstacle or have the proper slope (1/4" fall per foot), then best to pull it out, build a base of cinder blocks or something equally structurally sound, and then put the water heater back in. Before shutting off the water, connect the garden hose and open up the silcock to flush out sediment from the bottom. It will help the tank and make the draining go faster. Watch your back!
@@MyFortressConstruction Great instruction. The trick is where to let the flood water go - or we need to tap into another drain pipe somewhere probably only way. Cannot let water go outside and drop to people downstairs.
@@jamescc2010 if you have gutters you could run it into a gutter otherwise yeah find a drain that is lower than the water heater or get a really long hose so you can drop it all the way down to the ground.
How about installing a gas water heater first (not turned on, unless the power is out) and then in series to a hybrid)? Would there be problem with bacteria because of intermittent gas water heater use?
Interesting idea and should work fine. Since it's a closed system and should be chlorinated/disinfected by the city, bacteria growth shouldn't be higher in a gas unit. If you were in the UK then their system is different than ours.
If you're going to mix types of water heaters just put the most cost efficient water heater first and then the second less efficient water heater as the surge load and keep them both on
this may have been asked...but if you're lowering the temp on the one water heater, doesn't that increase the chance of Legionella?
Yes, legionella is one of those things that should be taken care of via water treatment, but if it's well water, it could be more of an issue. You could "Shock treat" it by turning it up every once in a while, but I would think that different areas might struggle with it more.
Yeah, I can't remember what video this is, but I disagree with the people who want to heat the water halfway in one tank and all the way in the next tank. If one is just room temperature, that's fine. It's just nice warm water where they thrive. So that's what I did on my series water heaters. One of them is off and I will turn it on if I ever have a lot of guests. The second one is set to, I think 120°F.
Are you sure you want to use untreated lumber for your platform legs on concrete in termite country?
Yep. Now, if they didn't use a moisture barrier between the soil and the concrete, and if this had rain or other water running under it, then it would be necessary to use PT wood. But because the concrete is dry and it's in a weather protected cover, there won't be any moisture there to cause dry rot. However, if you have termites, then you need to take care of them regardless of the wood you have, because most homes only have a PT sill plate (generally because framing goes up while the concrete is still curing or they're used on exterior walls and have to deal with moisture pushing in if the base isn't sealed well), everything else is dry and tasty. At least you'd be able to see the termites munching on these.
A have same setup
Do I have to drain both? and how I will do it?
Yo voy a responder en español porque necesito practicar más y su nombre me da confidencia que me entenderás. Jaja. Debes de tener 4 tubos independiente de los otros (aquí en este vídeo están conectados pero no es correcto del código). La mejor manera, si tu código de la ciudad te permite, es terminar el drenaje de la válvula de presión 2" arriba de la bandeja de drenaje. El tubo que viene de la bandeja tiene que terminar afuera del edificio o sobre un drenaje del piso. Estos códigos pueden ser diferentes depende en su ciudad pero hay muchas explicaciones en la red.
Can I have a 50’gallon and 30 gallon in series? Does size play a role in pressure ?
You can have any size you want and the only thing that would play a part in the pressure/volume would be the diameter of the inlet and outlet. Once your tank fills with water it will pressurize equally.
Thanks for the video. I have seen a few other videos of water heaters in series and there are so many comments from plumbers saying it's wrong, against code, will wear out the water heaters prematurely etc. Basically saying they need to be done in tandem. Thoughts?
Yeah, so code does determine what you can do in your area. I'm not sure why plumbers are so staunchly against tanks in series, other than it's "one of those things". Both systems have pros and cons and shouldn't be used as a "one size fits all".
Heaters in series are good for those that have fluctuations in usage, such as a retreat center (where these are located). If you have a small group, then you only need one heater running, if you need more hot water, you just turn up the first unit. It doesn't require balancing of the pipes and is very customizable. It's easy to add another unit because they can be different sizes and models, and you can turn the first unit to a low temp to just act as a tempering tank and allow the second tank to heat water faster. The con is that the first tank "can" wear out sooner if you always leave them both on fully, as the first tank will be taking the cold water and heating it up and then passing it into the second tank fully heated. The second tank won't have to heat anything if that is the case. So the first tank will wear out sooner, but that also means the second tank will last longer (so in my mind this all balances out).
Units that are done in tandem have the benefit of both wearing out at the same time (theoretically) and producing more hot water because they are required to be the same model/tank size and have the supply line and hot line to be almost perfectly balanced between the two tanks (same length and bends in the pipe going into and out of either tank). Pro is if you are always going to be using a massive amount of hot water, (no fluctuations in needs, because you can't turn down one of the tanks in a tandem setup), then tandem makes sense. Con is that it can cost more to install because of how precise the setup needs to be in order for there not to be backflow issues. Basically, you can't just grab another unit and plumb in to your first unit if you decide you need more hot water, whereas a unit in series can be added easily if there's gas or power available.
Summary:
Series is great for fluctuations in usage or easily adding more capacity to an existing water heater setup.
Tandem is great if it's a new build and hot water needs are constantly high.
@@MyFortressConstruction thank you for your time. That helps a lot.
So those are sediment traps on the gas line? I assumed they were hammer arresters, but that doesn't make much sense
Can I have 2 different size tanks ? A 50 gallon and. A 30 gallon? Or do they have to be the same size ?
@@mrorel I don't see why not. It's basically just acting as one giant tank with two different heaters at different ends.
What would be the process of draining and removing the water heater on the left in this case? Either for removal or replacing it?
There is not a difference in removing a water heater out of series than what you would do with a singular unit. You turn off both heaters, shut off gas and disconnect gas line, flush the tank for a minute via the drain valve, then shut off water coming in, allow it to drain completely, then disconnect it from incoming and outgoing water and remove it.
@@MyFortressConstruction Do I need to Drain BOTH tanks? I am replacing the gas control valve on the right only. Mine is an identical set up as yours.
@@LegitRunescaper Yes, If you are replacing the entire control valve, then you only need to drain the tank that you are working on (the other tank will drain a little until it reaches pressure equilibrium). However, if you aren't removing a part that goes into the tank of the unit, then you don't need to drain it at all. I'm sure you have already checked, but if it's just the thermo coupling, then you just replace it, not the whole valve. Merry Christmas!
I suppose a recirculation pump would be needed to keep hot the (turned off) gas heater tank downstream of the hybrid.
Technically you could do that, but that would defeat the purpose of the second tank being turned off as the 1st tank would be doing double duty.
Why isn't there a check valve in the lines from the pans to prevent the relief valve from forcing water back into the pans and overflowing from there? One of the maintenance steps is to yearly open the check valve and close it. That would have full home water pressure going out the check valve lines and possibly back into the pans. Code might allow that design, but that doesn't mean it should be done that way. In my area, drip loops are required for Romex going into a box, but it makes a lot of sense to keep water leaking into the house from following the wiring and going into the box.
It wouldn't be a bad idea except regular check valves are made to be used in a pressurized system and wouldn't open up from the small amount of pressure that would be coming down the 1" drain line. Even a proper sewage check valve, which would be difficult to find for a 1" line, could malfunction and destroy the purpose of the pans, which is to relay water to the outside in case of a tank rupture. As for yearly opening a check valve, I think you are either referring to the sillcock in the bottom of the tank or to the TandP (pressure relief) valve. If you are referring to the relief valve, you only open it for a couple of seconds to make sure it will close again. Not enough water to backflow into the pans. And if you're referring to the sillcock, you generally attach a hose to it so it's not going into the pan anyways. Regardless, this system isn't to code, as the TandP valve should be piped to the outside and not to the pvc pipes.
Why are you not using expansion tanks?
This isn't a closed system (no check valves) so it is not required in this area.
Thanks so much for this helpful video. I have two questions. First off, I have two heaters in my house, and I think they're in series, but I'm not absolutely sure, and I'm not absolutely sure which one is taking in the outside water and which one is feeding the house. I turned way down the heat on tank "A" and it doesn't seem to have affected my house. Tank "A" is also the one with the overflow tank. I think this is the one receiving water from the outside because turning its thermostat down didn't affect my water and because I think tank "B's" pressure can be relieved by simply flowing back into tank "A". Does that sound right?
Second, I have a small household and I don't really think I need two heaters running. Is it better to turn heater A off and let heater B do all the work, or is it better to let heater A do some of the work, and let heater B do the rest of the work? I'm guessing it's slightly more energy efficient to just turn heater A off, and probably less dangerous because a warm heater A would just foster legionella.
So, you are correct in that it's more efficient to have one heater if you don't need two.
Are the two heaters next to each other? If so then you should see a line going from Tank A into B. Water heaters in series have the hot water of the first heater go into the cold water inlet port of the second heater. You should see an H or C stamped/written next to the inlet/outlet ports on the heaters.
It sounds like you did indeed shut off the first heater in the series, but it's possible that your tanks could serve different parts of the house (heater A serves washing machine, hall bath, etc. and Heater B serves Kitchen, master, 2nd bath). Legionella like 70-120 degree F. so if your water is below that temperature in the first thank then you won't have anything to worry about, especially if the second tank is set high enough to kill them (140 deg. F. will kill legionella in about 30 minutes). If it is truly a concern then emptying out the first tank and removing it completely from the series would be recommended, after all, a second tank could just be another leak waiting to happen.
@@MyFortressConstruction Yeah, at first I just assumed one heater was for upstairs and one was for downstairs because that's how the air conditioners are (I live in Texas.), but when I turned one off, the whole house still had hot water. Then I realized it was a silly assumption and I started looking at it more closely. They're definitely in series. I will check for the engraved H and C when I get the chance.
I think generally I'd like to have my tank set at 120ºF, so it's not really high enough to kill them if they've proliferated in the first tank. I hate it when scalding water comes out of the taps, and enjoy the feeling of safety that comes from the 120º water, so I'm inclined to just let the second tank do all the work. But I do like the thought that I could heat up the second tank and have a ton of hot water if I needed it. You make a good point about it just being another hazard, but I'm so paranoid about water damage, that I think I will keep a good eye on it. I'm looking for a good deal on a water detection system, so I expect to have that installed in the next year or so, and once I get that, I think I will be mostly safe from the extra hazards of an extra tank.
Thanks so much for your advice.
@@MyFortressConstruction Oh, I forgot to mention that, yes, they are both right next to each other. And it's clear they are in series. I can see a single pipe coming and leaving from the pair, and then a single pipe connecting them. I will check the engravings when I get the chance, but from all I've learned, I'm pretty sure I turned off the first in the series.
Oh, and yesterday the piezo-electric ignitor came in the mail and I installed it on the second one, and tested it. The pilot light starts instantly, so I feel good about leaving it off. That reminds me, I should probably shut off the gas to it when I go to check the engravings.
@@mitchjohnson4714 Yeah, good. So another option is to install a tank booster on the second unit (the one actually supplying hot water to the house). It's basically a thermostatic mixing valve and it mixes in cold water into the hot water that is leaving the tank so that you can set your tank to 140º but the water would be 120º getting to your fixtures. It's usually what I recommend if someone wants a little more hot water but doesn't need an extra water heater.
@@MyFortressConstruction Oh that sounds nice. You get a lot of hot water, it kills all the legionella, but it's not scalding. Best of all worlds.
Can you connect 3 water heaters using the same method
Yes, you could theoretically connect as many as you wanted.
How do you flush the gas water heaters in series?
Same way you would a single. Just open up the first one while pressure is coming in (everything turned off of course), and then open up the second one once the first is done flushing.
Now that I think about it, the gas should be installed down stream of the hybrid, so it's tank is sanitized by the hybrid, then during time of electrical outages, you can turn on the gas heater and it would take over. I would also assume this would give you more 1st hour capacity for the hybrid during normal hybrid only usage.
You wouldn't want the first tank to be heating in this setup as the water would be cooled down by the second tank. You would have to have hot water in the last tank and optionally use the first tank. You don't have to worry about sanitation if the water is being treated. Cold water lines never see heat and do not have a higher bacterial count. If you're on well water then it's possible, but most of the time the water is filtered plenty by the ground and whatever inline filter is being used.
However if the gas heater is turned on and the hybrid is off, wouldn't you have the same problem of emptying hot water into the hybrid's tank? Would this result in getting lukewarm water? I think you would have install a bypass valve. So when the power is out, turn on the gas heater And switch over a plumbing value.
@@kathyorr4737 If you're going to use a recirculation pump then you would either have to bypass the first, if not in use or use both, or place the recirculation pump in-between the two with a check valve in-between the pump and the first tank.
Since a recirculation pump doesn't work when the power is out, I like the idea of a gas heater first and the hybrid downstream. When the electrical power is off, simply turn on the gas water heater and rotate a bypass valve within the series pipe to bypass the hybrid. Reverse order when the power comes on.
The relief valve discharge tubes should terminate straight down into the Drain Pans with an adequate Air Gap.
That's not allowed around here, but it use to be.
I see plastic drain valve. This tends to get wear out and get leak. Better use metal valve. Next time you drain the tank u may want to replace it with metal.
Hey guys. Please don't install water heaters or plumbing like this video explains. You can never have two tpr valve terminations joined together. You can never have them connected to the pan drain line. You can never have a tpr termination through PVC. CPVC or better ONLY. TPR valve shoots at 210F. PVC rated for 140F The plumber he mentioned saying this was ok obviously does not have a license. Section 504.6 of the International Plumbing Code (IPC) and Section P2804.6.1 of the International Residential Code (IRC). 49 states adopted IRC and 38 IPC. Most of the other states have their own code that says this is incorrect setup. So only you live in Wisconsin, find another channel or ask a home inspector. Guaranteed this gets flagged when they try to sell this home. I hate to be negative. This is America so you can say what you want, but I hope someone reads this comment and does some of their own research. Thanks for trying to educate anyways and good luck to you.
Great comment. You informed and stated some important things without trash talking (too much) ;). In this instance the owner was the one who made this decision as he said he didn't want any more pipes coming out of the front of the building. The plumber said that it broke the aforementioned rules, but that it was "ok" as in, "We do what the customer wants since it's not attached to any public water system". That is the only reason it was rigged this way. Keep being awesome and doing a good job!
@MyFortressConstruction I would agree that home owner can state what they want but code is code.. Plus running any dual water heater setup in a series is a waste! The first water heater will always get over worked compared to the other one and semi defeats the purpose