I listened to this interview because I try to listen to everything Michael Hudson puts out there, and I was stunned at how much I learned from David Graeber and Guy Standing as well. A simply marvelous discussion!
The deaths of Graeber an Michael Brooks have, for me personally, been worse than anything else in 2020. Every time I'm reminded of either death, which is almost daily, it's a gut punch all over again. It ain't right.
His sudden death was very suspicious. He complained about soapy taste in the mouth and the pain in the lung for a month. Wouldn't be surprised if he was actually poisoned with the high dose of fluoride compound.
@@sodalitia the fact that we STILL don't know what killed him is very suspicious to me. Very! He was wayyyy too young to go out like that and he still had so much to give and contribute. Just heartbreaking.
David (miss you, bro. Still hurting with our loss) steps in at the end and starts curating and includes Dr Hudson back into the conversation as Guy Standing has taken to the sound of his own voice and ideas.
1:19:42 My gosh ! I had this feeling about a "statistical revolution", could never arrticulate it though. I got a B.A.A in finace around 2010 been working in Japan since 2012 cause I saw the writing on the wall. I was at Occupy Atlanta; I wanted to grow my intution about the economy and Finace so I came to work over here. Puts lots of things into perspective. Came here for from Mark Blyth's talk with Brett Christophers on Rentier Capitalism. Found this lecture. Great Lecture. I've read Debt 5000 years and The Dawn of Everyting. Found About about Michael Hudson and Guy Standing, so thats great!
This is the third time I come back to this conversation. What is said is correct. During the 80's we would have lectures organised by the fourth international, Australian section. What was debated was very much on the lines discussed here minus the historical facts of the debt jubile from antiquity and a lack of serious explanations regarding state communism seen only as a deviation from pure communism. The USSSR was still in existence and the symbol of a victory of the working class which needed to be pushed further to true communism. Knowledge was not as developed as it is today although the systematic betrayal of the leadership of the union organisations was well understood. 50 years on and we are still in a position of aggravated struggle against a system which is becoming more vicious and treacherous not to say completely criminal to maintain the status quo. We continue to believe that a change in politics can be achieve by the electoral system in place under the name of democracy. Well, the plutocrats have the power of money in their hands, the rentier class is assured of their position by the very system of private property, the sacred cow of the entire world, or almost the entire world. The dominating class, very conscious of its position of privileged in the social ladder is prepared to exterminate anything fighting their position in society. This is a war, not a struggle, the only way possible to achieve a change is by the people themselves taking in their own hands the political power, it means full scale revolution and abolition of the absolute system of private property as it stands so far. This is almost a dream, although from what we know about people and their behaviour faced with deprivation of freedom, of economic means, of any hopes for better conditions of living, all this from antiquity to today, well, we can expect anything. It is in all a question of organisations, leadership, and having an ideal. With none of that, then nothing progressive can come about. It is barbarism versus socialism, nothing in between can be maintained any longer, 7 billions people create a formidable pressure that the actual system cannot absorb any longer without a 180 degrees change of direction, something it can't and won't do. So far, the destruction of the environment is happening to extract ressources to supply the production of commodities world wide and doing so without boundaries. This cannot go on indefinitely, nature itself doesn't permit such crazy behaviour. The confrontation between the impoverished majority and the tiny minority accumulating the power of money and corrupting everything they touch is getting more brutal and nefarious. Let's repeat, we are involved in a war, not just a so called class struggle. So far, the weapons used by the dominating class is forced poverty on the populations at large, divisions of community under various banners which include religion, sexism, racism, gender distinctions, so on and so forth. The elimination of massive section of youth from proper education, reducing them to unemployment therefore poverty and desperation. The army cannot absorb the totality of the unemployed as in the past, everything becomes high grade technical, knowledge is needed on a very high level to get a proper employment. Money rules, who has the power of money has the political power in their hands. Again, two worlds exist today, one made of privilege few and the other the massive number of population which exerts pressure on the system and tries to cope with more and more difficulties having much less possibilities to support themselves Eventually as the rubber band is stretch to far it will snap, what side will get the impact on its face is an open question. Indeed, the wording we use today to explain economics and politics is important,, words have a meaning, they are tools to attack and defend ourselves in most situations, the lack of knowledge means defeat, better we learn how to articulate our thoughts properly and efficiently. The new generation has a battle in their hands which is even more severe than the previous ones, ideals have to be defended even if one is called an idealist, a word used to dismiss those who aspire to a better way to be social and cooperative, rather than competitive, which in the business world as much as in any social sectors spell disaster. The 19th century was progressive though at the sacrifice of entire populations plunged into great suffering and total lack of freedom, a brutal and short life it was. The 20th century has been a transitional period with massive discoveries and technical progresses, yet, with little development in the social consciousness of mankind, product of careful propaganda and treacherous politics for the benefits of the wealthy class accumulating wealth under the system of private property of means of production and distribution and the rent system as Micheal Hudson explains so well. What could have been possible in term of progressive policies by the sixties got crushed by the American empire acting as a vampire on the four corners of the world. The 21st century has started as it should, one crisis after another and even better with the catastrophic situation of 2008. From there we keep digging deeper into the abyss of falsity, hypocrisie, double talks, criminality, hopeless lies, desperate propaganda, bail out and bail in, dropping of bombs American style, military occupation of strategic regions full of ressources under the banner of peace keeping forces, plutocrats in charge of economic policies like the fox put in charge of the chicken coop, pensioners loosing their retirement funds, privatisation of everything and anything on the planet, malnutrition, famine, diseases of all kind with new names. Viruses politicised and used to control entire population into forced confinement. Displacement of entire population due to criminal economical sanctions and wars, all orchestrated by the US empire. There is no limits to complete idiocy at all levels, journalism is no more journalism, but big propaganda enterprises at the service of their respective owners, all multimillionaires. Foods is no longer free of pesticides, herbicides and multiple chemical agents, organic foods hardly exist and if available at a higher price only wealthy people can afford. What is progressive in our system today? Keep looking, nothing to see here, only the 1% of the population sees something for them, private territory, keep out fox, this is a private club and you are not in it as George Carlin use to say. Well, what we are going to learn and do with it is still an open question, but don't despair, the answer will come as sure as the sun after the storm. Remember, the planet keeps moving, it is not static with the same weather every day, same for the people on this planet, they are in constant movement, they think and talk to each other's, they develop new concepts and ideas, understand better what has been kept under the carpet for centuries. One revolution has already taken place some twenty years ago, the communication networks and the internet. Seems just a technical progress, but it is much more than that, it is the first time people can communicate between themselves world wide instantly 24/7. Information networks linked with educational ends spread exponentially, a universal consciousness develops from all this, it is slow of course, like anything else with humans, it takes time to sink in and be understood, let alone be accepted, yet, it is happening, it is constant and growing. This is what the dominating class resent most and do anything to slow it down, even erased from existence, the censorship is used extensively to diminish its impact, in vain may I say. Watch what a tsunami can do, this can be an example of what a human tsunami will produce, possibly with atrocious results we can imagine. All biological life are in perpetual movement, humans are one biological form of existence more active than any on this planet, due to our intellectual capacities vastly more developed than any other animals on earth. This alone is enough to make one aware that what we take for granted in life is pure illusion, it can change at any moment in time, let's make sure we know what direction to take when it will happen, one mistake and death follows.
It is not quite right numerically, there are much more people understanding how the system works, that is on the surface of things. The question is what do we do once we have the knowledge necessary to comprehend in part how fraudulent the system is and works . Those who have knowledge but don’t use it accordingly have no knowledge. Besides all these points, one thing is certain, we have a rentier class, a plutocracy, landlords, capitalist owners of industries, corporations, etc..... yet, no one is prepare to admit that all these categories and casts of dominating people, millionaires, billionaires and other scoundrels in the financial structure exist solely on the basis of the absolute right of private property and its outcome of privatisation of everything and anything on this planet. The sacred cow of private property is a taboo subject, why one may ask. The commons is dispossessed systematically by the system of privatisation, the dispossession by the power of accumulated money under the right of private property. So, we talk about the evils of capitalism, be industrial or financial, the system of the rent and its armada of rentiers, yet, no one want to touch the subject of private property which is the basis of what exists with all its twist and turns. You cannot make any progress so long we have the absolute right of private property as it stand so far. Therefore all we do so far is go around the pot and never look into the pot itself. The question of private property was a big issue in the 19 and 20th century within the organised movements of the working class, be in the US or in Europe, certainly in Europe it was a burning question. All this has been wiped out of any debate for the last 70 years, and for good reason, the dominating class doesn’t want to hear of it, propaganda and the ideology propagated by media, movies etc... works well in that direction, anything goes but the question of private property, how interesting indeed it is so. Human constructs are just that, human constructs which can be modified, abolished, transformed, so on an so forth. How long do we have to be mute and stupid enough before tackling the basis of private property and its disastrous outcomes?
DAVID GRAEBER was a founding member of the Institute for Experimental Arts He did a lecture with the title: How social and economic structure influences the Art World in the Financial Consequences - International MultiMedia Poetry Festival organized by the Institute for Experimental Arts supported by LSE Department of Anthropology. Influential anthropologist David Graeber, known for his 2011 volume Debt: The First 5000 Years speaks about the correlation between the cultural sphere and society. The intellectuals and the artists create an imaginary way to criticize the economic system in any era. Art can overcome hegemonic frameworks and acknowledge other possible worlds, offer us the opportunity to understand better the marginalized social entities. Social exclusion is the process in which individuals or people are systematically blocked from (or denied full access to) various rights, opportunities and resources that are normally available to members of a different group, and which are fundamental to social integration and observance of human rights within that particular group (e.g., housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process). As the economic crises go deeper in time more people face the effects of exclusion. Art and social sciences can give voice to the voiceless. Especially young social aware poets can give us a clear view of the real social effect of the financial consequences. - David Graeber You can watch the Lecture here: th-cam.com/video/WCF-8OQj0RE/w-d-xo.html
The entire machinery of Capitalism is based on denial of the true relation between Owner and Employee. The 'Employee' makes the products, takes those products to the market, sells the products, he made, to himself and finally he pays a fee known as Profit to some 'Owner' for a permission to own the products he made and sold to himself. The owner, just owns, the Employee grows the business.
I mean no offence but I disagree. Art has never changed anything. It only appeals to other artists therefore is just another form of siloed information.
Awesometacular gathering. Palpable is their energy and enthusiasm. Gets me thinking of a story, The Three Musketeers. "Life is too short to not be cool." - Athos "Life is too long if too hot." - Aramis "Careful as we will, careful as we go." - Porthos "All media exist to invest our lives with artificial perceptions and arbitrary values." - Marshall McLuhan. Many thanks for your recording/posting.
Chaotic types of leaders vs. the organized systematic corporate types that riddle our lives with targets and compliance forms. An interesting perspective by DG. Great thoughts.
Precariat, an interesting analytical category. The cadre appear to be of interest to political leaders who are seeking higher office. Populism for/by the precariat will be on the increase as economies falter in their quest to achieve and maintain macroeconomic growth and stability.
51:49 and before : reminds me of working class expression: “It’s all pants” , referring to all these feudal gradations representatives wearing them I suppose!
So much important information, but the filming and audio needs to be better. I had to turn off the screen just to get through this. All of your collective intelligence was refreshing.
I think Graeber was murdered for telling the truth, unfortunately. As someone who studied anthropology, I can honestly attest there's few real anthropologists out there these days as identity politics have taken over the field and given my CV an even worse name
You are right, he was probably murdered. He was pointing out that the world economies have a conspiracy behind them. The conspiracy is to drain or steal as much wealth from everyday people in order to prevent everyday people from building up wealth so they can have long term financially stability in their family lines. They are trying to create a modern feudalism disguised as free market capitalism. And they can't have smart people like David pointing that out.
Hi is a transcript available of the conversation? I ask because the audio quality makes it difficult to understand everything for non native English speakers.
my bad add to the below " Propaganda ". how do people end up voting against their own best interest? my latest favorite quote: john steinbeck “ once said that socialism never took root in because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed .” good luck. my friends.
All these so called opportunities are based solely on the principal of absolute rights of private property. The private accumulation of wealth which is produced entirely by the community itself which produces within the system of private ownership of all means of production is the biggest idiocy human kind can ever produce. No one on this planet can exist without the entire society at work 24/7 . Yet, the alienation taking place in the system of production and distribution seems to be the natural process we cannot escape. What a lot of rubbish this is. Abolition of accumulation of private wealth by abolition of the absolute right of private accumulation by individual under the title of private ownership of the means of production and distribution is a must if we want to stop this crazy system. Once you have private accumulation of wealth, you have a plutocracy with the power of money in their hands, what do you expect out of this crazy situation? Humans becomes arrogant and psychopaths once they inherits wealth and accumulates unlimited amount of money power. Politics by then means nothing to them but a side show to impose their directives via the so call democratic system. Worst when a dictator is put in place, financed by the financial aristocracy and supported by the plutocrats to maintained their law and order, not the one the communities at large expect but never get. No point to argue about this or that president, this or that billionaire, this or that dark shadow power, so long a minority keeps the power of money in their hands and see themselves legitimate to have it regardless of the obscenity of the disparity between them and the overwhelming majority who cannot even function properly due to a lack of basic necessities and has no say on any political, economical or social decisions. So, those in the dominating class first ignore totally the other classes they consider inferior and a nuisance to their own dominating class. They ignore that the wealth produce is a common effort by all members of society and deny them the right to have a say in any decisions. Further, the system is built to eliminate physically people who are excluded from the means of production and distribution, it is done through enforced poverty and wars, local wars, tribal war, world wars as the last two demonstrated its efficiency. The decisions are taken by those in power, the power has its source from accumulate wealth itself under the framework of absolute right of private property without limits. So long the status-quo as it exists is in place, expect nothing but misery, wars, poverty on a large scale and ruthless exploitation of all ressources on earth for the benefit of accumulated wealth by the tiny minority who couldn’t care less about the ecology and it’s imperatives. As the king of France Louis the XV said once in his dissolute later life, ‘après moi le déluge’ so it is for the minority having the power of wealth in their hands, the psychopaths of today. Keep talking as long as you like, so long the power of money is accumulated under the title of private property, you will have all the maniacs in the world imposing their arrogance simply by using accumulated money. It is already bad enough with the middle class showing their arrogance all over the world as tourists and addicted consumers of goods in technologies and other useless so called necessities of modern life. The social ladder is based on inherited privileges and merits it is said, that is for a very few indeed, and merits for what? A society entirely divided in classes as it is today demonstrates our incapacity to elevate ourselves further that on the primitive level we have known for thousands of years. Technological advances fools us to believe we are making progresses on a social basis, right, let’s continue to be fools to the end, an end which is getting closer than we allow ourselves to think. We know what need to be changed, yet we cannot organise ourselves massively to kick out this click of plutocrats, psychopaths, corrupt officials and political polichinelles using the brutality of the state to muzzle the people demanding natural justice. Fine, the disintegration of the fabric of society is taking place daily, the human construct is just that, a human construct with all its good and bad parts mingled into each other, and like all mechanisms eventually collapses. The question is how the divided society will resolve the consequences of the collapse. Peacefully? No, not a chance, violently, certainly, nothing new here, nevertheless one can question if the social consciousness has grasp the urgency of questioning the status-quo and abolishing this weapon used against mankind which is the absolute right of private property and its so call legitimacy with all its catastrophic consequences we know today.
I agree that some wealth is created by the community. For example, when taxes are spent on infrastructure, this raises the value of locations served by that infrastructure. This local rise in land value was created by taxpayers, ie the community. It is legitimate to argue that this rise in land value should be returned to the taxpayer/community. But not all wealth is created by the community. I go to work and I claim ownership of my wages because I did the work, no one else. Wages are legitimate private property. We could fix our system by taxing community created wealth and untaxing privately created wealth. cf Georgism
D Bruce Unfortunately for me, l feel obliged to make a comment about what is said here which indicates a profond misunderstanding of what has been said in essence. No one in his/her right mind would say that earning a wage falls into the category of wealth and should be contested in receiving a wage for his/her labour. Of course one is legitimate in demanding and having the full benefits of what he/she earned out of his/her labour. Private property of the means of production and distribution is at stake here, not wages or other payments of services, even some occupations as the anthropologist David Greaber call them ‘bull shit jobs’ for which he has written a very well known book. Incidentally, this brave intellectual died a month ago at the age of 59, a great loss in the effort to make progress in the understanding of what societies do and how they organise themselves. No, wealth has nothing to do with wages, although those who have ownership of the means of production accumulate wealth through the extraction of surplus value on human labour. Of course when you go to work you have the absolute right to claim your wages in full, l, for one would be the first to defend such right for any worker on this planet. I think the misunderstanding comes from the definition given to private property, how it works and how it is applied and in what social circonstances such right applies. Wealth is by accepted definition the possession of a large amount of money, property, or other valuable things. No wages permit such accumulation. If someone has a personal wealth of qualities, attributes etc... it means they have a very large number or amount of them, be money, assets even knowledge which brings us to say someone has wealth of knowledge. You will never accumulate wealth out of wages, the system has being design to give just enough for a worker to support is own existence on the minimum level possible. In fact, wages were frozen by the end of the seventies in the US and most industrialised countries of Europe, not to mention the wages of subsistances all over Africa and Asia. We are talking about the absolute right of private property on the means of production and distribution on a grand scale. The people, that is the working class not to mention the working poor which are in millions in the world have no control over anything, not even in the condition of their employment. The illusion which was created earlier in the history of the first settlers coming to America to work hard, take possession of lands at the end of the barrel of a gun lasted only half a century, not even that. Yes, fortune were made by the Rockefeller and a few like him, not because of their work, but because of the opportunities which existed then, and not to forget, out of brutal exploitation of human labour. When we say the wealth of a nation we means the total output created by human labour. Such output belongs to all, not to a single person or family, no matter who they claim they are. No one on this planet can exist without the other, no need to be a religious person to understand this dépendance on the all fabric of society. The ferocious individualism which has developed since the early stage of the Industrial revolution some 200 years ago is poisonous to say it mildly. Even the system of communism, taboo word in the US, has never been applied, the USSR was a state communism regime, no better that the capitalist one, simply at a different level of state ownership with a different control on the means of production and distribution with disastrous results. So long we think in the confinement of the box given to us by propaganda and deceitful ideologies, we are going to suffer the consequences which are taking shape right now at great speed. So, by saying we must abolish the absolute right of unbridled accumulation by the fraudulent system of private property, we means we aim at removing the power of money from a cast of plutocrats and psychopaths who have the power of accumulated money in their hands in order to remove their power they used to bribe every sectors of life for their own exclusive benefits at the expanses of the majority at large we call the horizontal magma. The status-quo must be put on the table for a vivification and analysis so we truly understand how the system work which, no matter what is said by the propaganda machine is an organised system of fraud, ruthless exploitation of human labour and private accumulation of wealth by a few. Never allow yourself to think that a wage is a form of wealth which it is not, never was and never will be, no matter how well paid this or that job comes under consideration. Yer, the rentiers class is accumulating wealth in a very fraudulent manner, l doubt the person having written the comment belongs to this category in the social order of thing. Best of luck.
@@patriceortovent3337 "Wealth is by accepted definition the possession of a large amount of money, property, or other valuable things." I understand you now, by your logic, heat isn't heat unless it burns your skin, wind isn't wind unless it blows trees over and writing isn't writing unless it goes on and on and on.
Wealth is created by the community. If you think that taxes and the infrastructure they fund is the primary evidence for “wealth” being “created by the community”, then to me it seems clear that you have a very limited understanding of the world and your locus is profoundly limited to and within systems created by human beings. That’s not meant as a criticism. It’s extremely common for people to think of the world in terms of human systems, with all else dangling out there as a sort of addendum, and that frame of reference is more than encouraged by education and common usage within modern western society. However, it isn’t representative of reality, at all. Wealth IS created by the community, and “community” includes everything on this planet, including the planet structure itself. Even if you stick within the human sphere of creation and activity, what’s often forgotten is how utterly dependent the holders of wealth are, on the activities of thousands of human beings they will never meet or spare a thought for, but without whom the means of production, the structures of wealth creation and maintenance, couldn’t exist. The creation of a reality in which a few people are able to siphon to themselves the vastly larger slice of the overall resource-pie, is the work of everyone within that reality, from the people eating the cheeseburgers and pumping the gas into their vehicles, to the people building the buildings, desks, and computers on which the sales figures for the cheeseburgers and gas are recorded, calculated, and attributed. Not to mention the politicians and standing armies that make possible the leverage by which those same wealth “creators” form the siphon in the first place. It’s a vast, communal, (not necessarily conscious or cooperative) project. Without the participation of millions of other people, without the participation of the planet and it’s resources, those few self-chosen fortunates would NOT have the ability to “create” any of the wealth they so smugly take credit for. It begs the question; what, exactly, does “ownership” really mean in this context?
Guy Standing doesn't seem to really be contributing any perspicuity here. He claims that the revolutionary class is no longer the proletariat, it's the precariat, then at various points seems to indicate that the precariat are the more educated workers and then potentially even managers on short term contracts. He then points to the granular distinctions between various segments of the precariat: the traditionalist precariat, the optimistic precariat and the progressive precariat. The traditionalists want to regress society and vote for reactionaries, the optimistists want more of the same but better and vote for centrists and the progressives don't vote but could be mobilised for social democrats. What predictive power does his theory have? How is it any more of a clarion call than the abolition of wage labour?
So sorry to hear about David. What a great conversation. I hope you guys keep it going! With the right Avengers style team, I think there's a real chance to change our current situation for the better. How do you guys feel about Mark Blyth, Rick Wolff, The brothers Weinstein, and Andrew Yang? Check out articlesofunity.org
We can see thru your bullshit. Take your pseudo-third way second class right wingers from the liberal democracy Koch funded charade and shake the cocktail some place else.
True look at subscription services. Hell there’s a platform in MacOS to rent apps. When I saw a youtuber advertising this, I’m like really; this Adobe sub shit has become mainstream.
Madame hidalgo friends do like like you Global Capitalism: Capitalism’s Decline Accelerates [September 2020] * Democracy at work, have a pick🤗Global Capitalism: Capitalism’s Decline Accelerates [September 2020]🧐 don't forget the arts 🎨🖼🎭🩰🍾🍾💞🤗
Starts anti-“capitalism” video by lamenting problem with open source free software....hahaha! Wish this group was on some capitalist technology...hahaha cuz its a topic that ought to be spoken about by real thought leaders and not charlatans like Prof Wolff.
@@thomasd2444 naaaaah don’t need 30 books just need 3-5 on this subject... Hudson & Grayber And then maybe add some Richard Werner and a dash of Yannis in there and youve got what you need.
The loss of David still breaks my heart. RIP to one of the greatest ever.
I listened to this interview because I try to listen to everything Michael Hudson puts out there, and I was stunned at how much I learned from David Graeber and Guy Standing as well. A simply marvelous discussion!
Yeah. Graber was quite an insightful scholar. And practicing humanist
I still cant believe this and im still crying over it.
Such a gut punch.
we're all feeling it mate. still. up to all of us to make the best use of the great stuff he has left us
The deaths of Graeber an Michael Brooks have, for me personally, been worse than anything else in 2020. Every time I'm reminded of either death, which is almost daily, it's a gut punch all over again. It ain't right.
His sudden death was very suspicious. He complained about soapy taste in the mouth and the pain in the lung for a month. Wouldn't be surprised if he was actually poisoned with the high dose of fluoride compound.
@@ryhisner same. It feel unreal. How could it happen??? Why???
@@sodalitia the fact that we STILL don't know what killed him is very suspicious to me. Very! He was wayyyy too young to go out like that and he still had so much to give and contribute. Just heartbreaking.
David (miss you, bro. Still hurting with our loss) steps in at the end and starts curating and includes Dr Hudson back into the conversation as Guy Standing has taken to the sound of his own voice and ideas.
OMG how tragic we have lost a great mind and great person. RIP
Fantastic talk. RIP David Graeber
This video is a gift. Cannot thank you enough.
I love how David wanted to keep the conversation going
First time I have encountered Guy Standing. Thanks!
Thanks for this. what a blessing it is to have this conversation.
I really want to watch this but it’s so hard hearing David
Listen thru the resistance...hear...not too bad, for me..
Thank you, Michael Hudson
I came here for David Graeber, but this Guy Standing is stealing show. Never heard of him, but now I will have a closer look on his work.
1:19:42 My gosh ! I had this feeling about a "statistical revolution", could never arrticulate it though. I got a B.A.A in finace around 2010 been working in Japan since 2012 cause I saw the writing on the wall. I was at Occupy Atlanta; I wanted to grow my intution about the economy and Finace so I came to work over here. Puts lots of things into perspective. Came here for from Mark Blyth's talk with Brett Christophers on Rentier Capitalism. Found this lecture. Great Lecture. I've read Debt 5000 years and The Dawn of Everyting. Found About about Michael Hudson and Guy Standing, so thats great!
This is the third time I come back to this conversation. What is said is correct. During the 80's we would have lectures organised by the fourth international, Australian section. What was debated was very much on the lines discussed here minus the historical facts of the debt jubile from antiquity and a lack of serious explanations regarding state communism seen only as a deviation from pure communism. The USSSR was still in existence and the symbol of a victory of the working class which needed to be pushed further to true communism. Knowledge was not as developed as it is today although the systematic betrayal of the leadership of the union organisations was well understood. 50 years on and we are still in a position of aggravated struggle against a system which is becoming more vicious and treacherous not to say completely criminal to maintain the status quo. We continue to believe that a change in politics can be achieve by the electoral system in place under the name of democracy. Well, the plutocrats have the power of money in their hands, the rentier class is assured of their position by the very system of private property, the sacred cow of the entire world, or almost the entire world. The dominating class, very conscious of its position of privileged in the social ladder is prepared to exterminate anything fighting their position in society. This is a war, not a struggle, the only way possible to achieve a change is by the people themselves taking in their own hands the political power, it means full scale revolution and abolition of the absolute system of private property as it stands so far. This is almost a dream, although from what we know about people and their behaviour faced with deprivation of freedom, of economic means, of any hopes for better conditions of living, all this from antiquity to today, well, we can expect anything. It is in all a question of organisations, leadership, and having an ideal. With none of that, then nothing progressive can come about. It is barbarism versus socialism, nothing in between can be maintained any longer, 7 billions people create a formidable pressure that the actual system cannot absorb any longer without a 180 degrees change of direction, something it can't and won't do. So far, the destruction of the environment is happening to extract ressources to supply the production of commodities world wide and doing so without boundaries. This cannot go on indefinitely, nature itself doesn't permit such crazy behaviour. The confrontation between the impoverished majority and the tiny minority accumulating the power of money and corrupting everything they touch is getting more brutal and nefarious. Let's repeat, we are involved in a war, not just a so called class struggle. So far, the weapons used by the dominating class is forced poverty on the populations at large, divisions of community under various banners which include religion, sexism, racism, gender distinctions, so on and so forth. The elimination of massive section of youth from proper education, reducing them to unemployment therefore poverty and desperation. The army cannot absorb the totality of the unemployed as in the past, everything becomes high grade technical, knowledge is needed on a very high level to get a proper employment. Money rules, who has the power of money has the political power in their hands. Again, two worlds exist today, one made of privilege few and the other the massive number of population which exerts pressure on the system and tries to cope with more and more difficulties having much less possibilities to support themselves Eventually as the rubber band is stretch to far it will snap, what side will get the impact on its face is an open question. Indeed, the wording we use today to explain economics and politics is important,, words have a meaning, they are tools to attack and defend ourselves in most situations, the lack of knowledge means defeat, better we learn how to articulate our thoughts properly and efficiently. The new generation has a battle in their hands which is even more severe than the previous ones, ideals have to be defended even if one is called an idealist, a word used to dismiss those who aspire to a better way to be social and cooperative, rather than competitive, which in the business world as much as in any social sectors spell disaster. The 19th century was progressive though at the sacrifice of entire populations plunged into great suffering and total lack of freedom, a brutal and short life it was. The 20th century has been a transitional period with massive discoveries and technical progresses, yet, with little development in the social consciousness of mankind, product of careful propaganda and treacherous politics for the benefits of the wealthy class accumulating wealth under the system of private property of means of production and distribution and the rent system as Micheal Hudson explains so well. What could have been possible in term of progressive policies by the sixties got crushed by the American empire acting as a vampire on the four corners of the world. The 21st century has started as it should, one crisis after another and even better with the catastrophic situation of 2008. From there we keep digging deeper into the abyss of falsity, hypocrisie, double talks, criminality, hopeless lies, desperate propaganda, bail out and bail in, dropping of bombs American style, military occupation of strategic regions full of ressources under the banner of peace keeping forces, plutocrats in charge of economic policies like the fox put in charge of the chicken coop, pensioners loosing their retirement funds, privatisation of everything and anything on the planet, malnutrition, famine, diseases of all kind with new names. Viruses politicised and used to control entire population into forced confinement. Displacement of entire population due to criminal economical sanctions and wars, all orchestrated by the US empire. There is no limits to complete idiocy at all levels, journalism is no more journalism, but big propaganda enterprises at the service of their respective owners, all multimillionaires. Foods is no longer free of pesticides, herbicides and multiple chemical agents, organic foods hardly exist and if available at a higher price only wealthy people can afford. What is progressive in our system today? Keep looking, nothing to see here, only the 1% of the population sees something for them, private territory, keep out fox, this is a private club and you are not in it as George Carlin use to say. Well, what we are going to learn and do with it is still an open question, but don't despair, the answer will come as sure as the sun after the storm. Remember, the planet keeps moving, it is not static with the same weather every day, same for the people on this planet, they are in constant movement, they think and talk to each other's, they develop new concepts and ideas, understand better what has been kept under the carpet for centuries. One revolution has already taken place some twenty years ago, the communication networks and the internet. Seems just a technical progress, but it is much more than that, it is the first time people can communicate between themselves world wide instantly 24/7. Information networks linked with educational ends spread exponentially, a universal consciousness develops from all this, it is slow of course, like anything else with humans, it takes time to sink in and be understood, let alone be accepted, yet, it is happening, it is constant and growing. This is what the dominating class resent most and do anything to slow it down, even erased from existence, the censorship is used extensively to diminish its impact, in vain may I say. Watch what a tsunami can do, this can be an example of what a human tsunami will produce, possibly with atrocious results we can imagine. All biological life are in perpetual movement, humans are one biological form of existence more active than any on this planet, due to our intellectual capacities vastly more developed than any other animals on earth. This alone is enough to make one aware that what we take for granted in life is pure illusion, it can change at any moment in time, let's make sure we know what direction to take when it will happen, one mistake and death follows.
December 2020: 6753 out of 7 Billion people understand now how the world works
8,013 12/31/2020
It is not quite right numerically, there are much more people understanding how the system works, that is on the surface of things. The question is what do we do once we have the knowledge necessary to comprehend in part how fraudulent the system is and works . Those who have knowledge but don’t use it accordingly have no knowledge. Besides all these points, one thing is certain, we have a rentier class, a plutocracy, landlords, capitalist owners of industries, corporations, etc..... yet, no one is prepare to admit that all these categories and casts of dominating people, millionaires, billionaires and other scoundrels in the financial structure exist solely on the basis of the absolute right of private property and its outcome of privatisation of everything and anything on this planet. The sacred cow of private property is a taboo subject, why one may ask. The commons is dispossessed systematically by the system of privatisation, the dispossession by the power of accumulated money under the right of private property. So, we talk about the evils of capitalism, be industrial or financial, the system of the rent and its armada of rentiers, yet, no one want to touch the subject of private property which is the basis of what exists with all its twist and turns. You cannot make any progress so long we have the absolute right of private property as it stand so far. Therefore all we do so far is go around the pot and never look into the pot itself. The question of private property was a big issue in the 19 and 20th century within the organised movements of the working class, be in the US or in Europe, certainly in Europe it was a burning question. All this has been wiped out of any debate for the last 70 years, and for good reason, the dominating class doesn’t want to hear of it, propaganda and the ideology propagated by media, movies etc... works well in that direction, anything goes but the question of private property, how interesting indeed it is so. Human constructs are just that, human constructs which can be modified, abolished, transformed, so on an so forth. How long do we have to be mute and stupid enough before tackling the basis of private property and its disastrous outcomes?
DAVID GRAEBER was a founding member of the Institute for Experimental Arts He did a lecture with the title: How social and economic structure influences the Art World in the Financial Consequences - International MultiMedia Poetry Festival organized by the Institute for Experimental Arts supported by LSE Department of Anthropology.
Influential anthropologist David Graeber, known for his 2011 volume Debt: The First 5000 Years speaks about the correlation between the cultural sphere and society. The intellectuals and the artists create an imaginary way to criticize the economic system in any era. Art can overcome hegemonic frameworks and acknowledge other possible worlds, offer us the opportunity to understand better the marginalized social entities. Social exclusion is the process in which individuals or people are systematically blocked from (or denied full access to) various rights, opportunities and resources that are normally available to members of a different group, and which are fundamental to social integration and observance of human rights within that particular group (e.g., housing, employment, healthcare, civic engagement, democratic participation, and due process). As the economic crises go deeper in time more people face the effects of exclusion. Art and social sciences can give voice to the voiceless. Especially young social aware poets can give us a clear view of the real social effect of the financial consequences. - David Graeber
You can watch the Lecture here: th-cam.com/video/WCF-8OQj0RE/w-d-xo.html
The entire machinery of Capitalism is based on denial of the true relation between Owner and Employee.
The 'Employee' makes the products, takes those products to the market, sells the products, he made, to himself and finally he pays a fee known as Profit to some 'Owner' for a permission to own the products he made and sold to himself.
The owner, just owns, the Employee grows the business.
I mean no offence but I disagree. Art has never changed anything.
It only appeals to other artists therefore is just another form of siloed information.
Brave and Brilliant Dr. Michael Hudson
incredible, thank you for sharing this
Awesometacular gathering. Palpable is their energy and enthusiasm. Gets me thinking of a story, The Three Musketeers.
"Life is too short to not be cool." - Athos
"Life is too long if too hot." - Aramis
"Careful as we will, careful as we go." - Porthos
"All media exist to invest our lives with artificial perceptions and arbitrary values." - Marshall McLuhan.
Many thanks for your recording/posting.
1:29:58 - We are most fortunate to have such good people thinking & seeking to bring us Aristotle's Good Society
Chaotic types of leaders vs. the organized systematic corporate types that riddle our lives with targets and compliance forms. An interesting perspective by DG. Great thoughts.
on my second watch I found that by skipping past the self-obsessed musings of Guy made the talk on the whole much more enjoyable.
Precariat, an interesting analytical category. The cadre appear to be of interest to political leaders who are seeking higher office. Populism for/by the precariat will be on the increase as economies falter in their quest to achieve and maintain macroeconomic growth and stability.
It hurts to watch this
Ah, i get the cover photo, "Gnome Chomsky".
This is such an important talk.
We need to change the very definition of work and a job.
The current system (Game A) is obviously a failure. We need a Game B. Look for the discussions on YT.
loved this. Thank you.
Can't scud the Hud
51:49 and before : reminds me of working class expression: “It’s all pants” , referring to all these feudal gradations representatives wearing them I suppose!
S.P.E.C.T.R.E.... Brilliant!
Curse that woman for cutting this great conversation short.
So much important information, but the filming and audio needs to be better. I had to turn off the screen just to get through this. All of your collective intelligence was refreshing.
Was David in a cleaning cupboard?
Oh sorrry - i guess those things behind him were decorative feathers? 😊
def not VISUALS...listening...
I think Graeber was murdered for telling the truth, unfortunately. As someone who studied anthropology, I can honestly attest there's few real anthropologists out there these days as identity politics have taken over the field and given my CV an even worse name
I agree, Bryan..Death in Venice...such a loss...all we have is these strands...I'm amazed they let Nader LIVE..
You are right, he was probably murdered. He was pointing out that the world economies have a conspiracy behind them. The conspiracy is to drain or steal as much wealth from everyday people in order to prevent everyday people from building up wealth so they can have long term financially stability in their family lines. They are trying to create a modern feudalism disguised as free market capitalism. And they can't have smart people like David pointing that out.
Brilliant
Is there a way to get a transcript of this?
25:00 TYRANTS 😎👍
Hi is a transcript available of the conversation? I ask because the audio quality makes it difficult to understand everything for non native English speakers.
Yes. And you can hit the "CC" button.
Thank you. @@troywalkertheprogressivean8433
my bad add to the below " Propaganda ". how do people end up voting against their own best interest? my latest favorite quote: john steinbeck “ once said that socialism never took root in because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed .” good luck. my friends.
❤❤❤
ada indo coy
New left strategy?
James Herod’s, Abdullah Öcalan’s.
Massive Loss .
David Expands your mind.
Can anyone explain to me how he died? :(
All these so called opportunities are based solely on the principal of absolute rights of private property. The private accumulation of wealth which is produced entirely by the community itself which produces within the system of private ownership of all means of production is the biggest idiocy human kind can ever produce. No one on this planet can exist without the entire society at work 24/7 . Yet, the alienation taking place in the system of production and distribution seems to be the natural process we cannot escape. What a lot of rubbish this is. Abolition of accumulation of private wealth by abolition of the absolute right of private accumulation by individual under the title of private ownership of the means of production and distribution is a must if we want to stop this crazy system. Once you have private accumulation of wealth, you have a plutocracy with the power of money in their hands, what do you expect out of this crazy situation? Humans becomes arrogant and psychopaths once they inherits wealth and accumulates unlimited amount of money power. Politics by then means nothing to them but a side show to impose their directives via the so call democratic system. Worst when a dictator is put in place, financed by the financial aristocracy and supported by the plutocrats to maintained their law and order, not the one the communities at large expect but never get. No point to argue about this or that president, this or that billionaire, this or that dark shadow power, so long a minority keeps the power of money in their hands and see themselves legitimate to have it regardless of the obscenity of the disparity between them and the overwhelming majority who cannot even function properly due to a lack of basic necessities and has no say on any political, economical or social decisions. So, those in the dominating class first ignore totally the other classes they consider inferior and a nuisance to their own dominating class. They ignore that the wealth produce is a common effort by all members of society and deny them the right to have a say in any decisions. Further, the system is built to eliminate physically people who are excluded from the means of production and distribution, it is done through enforced poverty and wars, local wars, tribal war, world wars as the last two demonstrated its efficiency. The decisions are taken by those in power, the power has its source from accumulate wealth itself under the framework of absolute right of private property without limits. So long the status-quo as it exists is in place, expect nothing but misery, wars, poverty on a large scale and ruthless exploitation of all ressources on earth for the benefit of accumulated wealth by the tiny minority who couldn’t care less about the ecology and it’s imperatives. As the king of France Louis the XV said once in his dissolute later life, ‘après moi le déluge’ so it is for the minority having the power of wealth in their hands, the psychopaths of today. Keep talking as long as you like, so long the power of money is accumulated under the title of private property, you will have all the maniacs in the world imposing their arrogance simply by using accumulated money. It is already bad enough with the middle class showing their arrogance all over the world as tourists and addicted consumers of goods in technologies and other useless so called necessities of modern life. The social ladder is based on inherited privileges and merits it is said, that is for a very few indeed, and merits for what? A society entirely divided in classes as it is today demonstrates our incapacity to elevate ourselves further that on the primitive level we have known for thousands of years. Technological advances fools us to believe we are making progresses on a social basis, right, let’s continue to be fools to the end, an end which is getting closer than we allow ourselves to think. We know what need to be changed, yet we cannot organise ourselves massively to kick out this click of plutocrats, psychopaths, corrupt officials and political polichinelles using the brutality of the state to muzzle the people demanding natural justice. Fine, the disintegration of the fabric of society is taking place daily, the human construct is just that, a human construct with all its good and bad parts mingled into each other, and like all mechanisms eventually collapses. The question is how the divided society will resolve the consequences of the collapse. Peacefully? No, not a chance, violently, certainly, nothing new here, nevertheless one can question if the social consciousness has grasp the urgency of questioning the status-quo and abolishing this weapon used against mankind which is the absolute right of private property and its so call legitimacy with all its catastrophic consequences we know today.
I agree that some wealth is created by the community. For example, when taxes are spent on infrastructure, this raises the value of locations served by that infrastructure. This local rise in land value was created by taxpayers, ie the community. It is legitimate to argue that this rise in land value should be returned to the taxpayer/community. But not all wealth is created by the community. I go to work and I claim ownership of my wages because I did the work, no one else. Wages are legitimate private property. We could fix our system by taxing community created wealth and untaxing privately created wealth. cf Georgism
D Bruce Unfortunately for me, l feel obliged to make a comment about what is said here which indicates a profond misunderstanding of what has been said in essence. No one in his/her right mind would say that earning a wage falls into the category of wealth and should be contested in receiving a wage for his/her labour. Of course one is legitimate in demanding and having the full benefits of what he/she earned out of his/her labour. Private property of the means of production and distribution is at stake here, not wages or other payments of services, even some occupations as the anthropologist David Greaber call them ‘bull shit jobs’ for which he has written a very well known book. Incidentally, this brave intellectual died a month ago at the age of 59, a great loss in the effort to make progress in the understanding of what societies do and how they organise themselves. No, wealth has nothing to do with wages, although those who have ownership of the means of production accumulate wealth through the extraction of surplus value on human labour. Of course when you go to work you have the absolute right to claim your wages in full, l, for one would be the first to defend such right for any worker on this planet. I think the misunderstanding comes from the definition given to private property, how it works and how it is applied and in what social circonstances such right applies. Wealth is by accepted definition the possession of a large amount of money, property, or other valuable things. No wages permit such accumulation. If someone has a personal wealth of qualities, attributes etc... it means they have a very large number or amount of them, be money, assets even knowledge which brings us to say someone has wealth of knowledge. You will never accumulate wealth out of wages, the system has being design to give just enough for a worker to support is own existence on the minimum level possible. In fact, wages were frozen by the end of the seventies in the US and most industrialised countries of Europe, not to mention the wages of subsistances all over Africa and Asia. We are talking about the absolute right of private property on the means of production and distribution on a grand scale. The people, that is the working class not to mention the working poor which are in millions in the world have no control over anything, not even in the condition of their employment. The illusion which was created earlier in the history of the first settlers coming to America to work hard, take possession of lands at the end of the barrel of a gun lasted only half a century, not even that. Yes, fortune were made by the Rockefeller and a few like him, not because of their work, but because of the opportunities which existed then, and not to forget, out of brutal exploitation of human labour. When we say the wealth of a nation we means the total output created by human labour. Such output belongs to all, not to a single person or family, no matter who they claim they are. No one on this planet can exist without the other, no need to be a religious person to understand this dépendance on the all fabric of society. The ferocious individualism which has developed since the early stage of the Industrial revolution some 200 years ago is poisonous to say it mildly. Even the system of communism, taboo word in the US, has never been applied, the USSR was a state communism regime, no better that the capitalist one, simply at a different level of state ownership with a different control on the means of production and distribution with disastrous results. So long we think in the confinement of the box given to us by propaganda and deceitful ideologies, we are going to suffer the consequences which are taking shape right now at great speed. So, by saying we must abolish the absolute right of unbridled accumulation by the fraudulent system of private property, we means we aim at removing the power of money from a cast of plutocrats and psychopaths who have the power of accumulated money in their hands in order to remove their power they used to bribe every sectors of life for their own exclusive benefits at the expanses of the majority at large we call the horizontal magma. The status-quo must be put on the table for a vivification and analysis so we truly understand how the system work which, no matter what is said by the propaganda machine is an organised system of fraud, ruthless exploitation of human labour and private accumulation of wealth by a few. Never allow yourself to think that a wage is a form of wealth which it is not, never was and never will be, no matter how well paid this or that job comes under consideration. Yer, the rentiers class is accumulating wealth in a very fraudulent manner, l doubt the person having written the comment belongs to this category in the social order of thing. Best of luck.
@@patriceortovent3337 "Wealth is by accepted definition the possession of a large amount of money, property, or other valuable things." I understand you now, by your logic, heat isn't heat unless it burns your skin, wind isn't wind unless it blows trees over and writing isn't writing unless it goes on and on and on.
@@patriceortovent3337 thank you. Very well said.
Wealth is created by the community. If you think that taxes and the infrastructure they fund is the primary evidence for “wealth” being “created by the community”, then to me it seems clear that you have a very limited understanding of the world and your locus is profoundly limited to and within systems created by human beings. That’s not meant as a criticism. It’s extremely common for people to think of the world in terms of human systems, with all else dangling out there as a sort of addendum, and that frame of reference is more than encouraged by education and common usage within modern western society. However, it isn’t representative of reality, at all. Wealth IS created by the community, and “community” includes everything on this planet, including the planet structure itself. Even if you stick within the human sphere of creation and activity, what’s often forgotten is how utterly dependent the holders of wealth are, on the activities of thousands of human beings they will never meet or spare a thought for, but without whom the means of production, the structures of wealth creation and maintenance, couldn’t exist. The creation of a reality in which a few people are able to siphon to themselves the vastly larger slice of the overall resource-pie, is the work of everyone within that reality, from the people eating the cheeseburgers and pumping the gas into their vehicles, to the people building the buildings, desks, and computers on which the sales figures for the cheeseburgers and gas are recorded, calculated, and attributed. Not to mention the politicians and standing armies that make possible the leverage by which those same wealth “creators” form the siphon in the first place. It’s a vast, communal, (not necessarily conscious or cooperative) project. Without the participation of millions of other people, without the participation of the planet and it’s resources, those few self-chosen fortunates would NOT have the ability to “create” any of the wealth they so smugly take credit for. It begs the question; what, exactly, does “ownership” really mean in this context?
Guy Standing doesn't seem to really be contributing any perspicuity here. He claims that the revolutionary class is no longer the proletariat, it's the precariat, then at various points seems to indicate that the precariat are the more educated workers and then potentially even managers on short term contracts. He then points to the granular distinctions between various segments of the precariat: the traditionalist precariat, the optimistic precariat and the progressive precariat. The traditionalists want to regress society and vote for reactionaries, the optimistists want more of the same but better and vote for centrists and the progressives don't vote but could be mobilised for social democrats. What predictive power does his theory have? How is it any more of a clarion call than the abolition of wage labour?
So sorry to hear about David. What a great conversation. I hope you guys keep it going! With the right Avengers style team, I think there's a real chance to change our current situation for the better. How do you guys feel about Mark Blyth, Rick Wolff, The brothers Weinstein, and Andrew Yang? Check out articlesofunity.org
who paid for that site?
We can see thru your bullshit. Take your pseudo-third way second class right wingers from the liberal democracy Koch funded charade and shake the cocktail some place else.
Fuck off
Who is J?
"corruption of Capitalism", isn't that an oxymoron ?
synonym?
Rentier societt ey? How about that Microsoft 365 subscription? or even that macbook pro you have to pay on every 2-3 years?
True look at subscription services. Hell there’s a platform in MacOS to rent apps. When I saw a youtuber advertising this, I’m like really; this Adobe sub shit has become mainstream.
@@PurpleFlush There is litterally nothing better to extract money out of folks.
Madame hidalgo friends do like like you Global Capitalism: Capitalism’s Decline Accelerates [September 2020] * Democracy at work, have a pick🤗Global Capitalism: Capitalism’s Decline Accelerates [September 2020]🧐 don't forget the arts 🎨🖼🎭🩰🍾🍾💞🤗
That was literally the last video I watched before searching for Michael Hudson and finding this one! Check out my other comment on this video too.
Aha a Noam Gnoam
life is simple. the rich are the enemy. get sum
pity a woman wanted to shut the guy's up...why could she just leave & allow the conve to run it's course....whose sorry now.
Starts anti-“capitalism” video by lamenting problem with open source free software....hahaha!
Wish this group was on some capitalist technology...hahaha cuz its a topic that ought to be spoken about by real thought leaders and not charlatans like Prof Wolff.
@Augur Cybernaut
"Capitalist technology"? Pray, what exactly is that?
@@thomasd2444 naaaaah don’t need 30 books just need 3-5 on this subject... Hudson & Grayber
And then maybe add some Richard Werner and a dash of Yannis in there and youve got what you need.
?? Are you implying open source free software = capitalist? So bill gates is a freedom fighter?
Ya man real thought leaders like you huh with a made up name and a computer generated pic??? 🤣