Why 'Friends' Might Be Hard To Go Back To
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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As a diehard Friends fan, I could never quite work out why there was such an antipathy towards the show by so many. On a rewatch, I decided to do some reflection - and uncover the ways this show's peculiar brand of 'political correctness' actually did more to date the show than any amount of subversive edge ever would have.
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I hope fans and non-fans alike can get something valuable out of this video - not here to condemn a show I've loved since I was a kid, but certainly to discuss its, uh, "complicated" relationship to politics and culture.
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BONUS FUN! Here's a stream of me playing Friends: The One With All The Trivia to try and prove I know my Friends - and failing miserably. (Still processing, but will be available soon)
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When are we going to get Jeb! ????
7:07 seems to be an audio mistake. I can't hear the audio from the episode, so are my speakers broken, or is this just an editing mistake?
@@phephemigi Hi there, I went to the timestamp in the video you pointed out and noticed that the audio at 7:07 is inaudible as you said. For whatever reason, this segment was silent on the mobile devices I tried but plays perfectly fine on a desktop. I am not too sure what the issue is, but please let me know if the problem you're experiencing is on a mobile device so I can try and figure out what is causing it. Thanks!
Yep, I am on mobile. That's a bizarre problem.
I loved friends myself, didn't see it growing up but did end up watching all of it in my mid 20's or so.
That said if Friends were a political entity I feel for it's time it was basically the 'centrist' of tv shows. While as you note not outright trying to be cruel while at the same time not doing or caring much to change anything; much like a real 'centrist'.
The jokes of Joey and Chandler having a mistaken 'gay' vibe always irked me though even then and more so now. Many shows sure do love to exploit lesbians for cheap 'shock' value, but the notion of two men being affectioned towards one another and even being in a relationship seems to be an inherently assumed 'absurdity' for such shows. Sadly it still seems to be the case today in some ways.
I think modern audiences are just more uncomfortable with the fact that Ross, the largest Friend, doesn't simply devour the other five.
I never get tired of hearing that Futurama line. it’s so good!
i get that reference
@@Cypress1600 bro just dont
11:41
Because Rachel would cry about it, Chandler would make some stupid snarky remark, Monica would judge him for not cooking her properly, Joey would just eat himself because JOEY DOESN'T SHARE FOOD, and Phoebe would just kill him.
Friends hasn't aged well in 2019 because firstly they have friends and secondly they can afford apartments
And thirdly because they have the time to hang out all day
@@froufroudeluxe who can even socialize in person anymore with our 18 hour work days
at least the white straight guy is known to have the best paying job.
Just to be clear - Ross owns a small place in a bad location (now windows, away from others). Phoebe lives with her grandmother in a small apartment which is most likely rent controlled and later needs a roommate to pay for it. Chandler has high-paying job and his apartment windows are so close to the wall of the other house that you can shake hands with the neighbour. Monica has a rent-contorlled apartment.
i always wondered how rachel could afford the apartment that was much bigger than chandler and joey's apartment on a waitress salary when her father cut her off. i know she eventually gets a well paying job but how on a waitress salary?
There’s one thing I wanna say. As a gay kid growing up watching Friends, I saw Carol and Susan and I saw the most stable couple on tv. That is something everyone missed. Carol and Susan were basically the only couple on tv who survived 10 years.
This is the thing that I think frequently gets either misunderstood or willfully distorted in this kind of analysis and is easy to get wrong out of context. The show wasn't laughing at Carol and Susan, it was laughing at Ross for being so uncomfortable with Carol and Susan.
Same, which says a lot that I have a hard time thinking of a more positive representation of trans people growing up.
7:03 "Susan was played incredibly unsympatheticaly" She was played unsympatheticaly but was she played INCREDIBLY unsympatheticaly? Would you expect her to be Ross's best pal?
Psh, you're forgetting Aunt Viv and Uncle Phil
As a young (not knowing i was gay)gay person i found out being gay was a joke and bad and i was homophobic
Friends was actually the show that introduced me to the concept of "normal" gay people. I mean, it was literally the first time I thought "Oh, they're just... like... regular people."
So while the show did fail in many respects, I think it still did some social good.
Applemangh
For me that show was “Six Feet Under.” I was thirteen and it was the first time I ever saw a man make out with another man. At first I felt shock. Then I thought how lovely it was, that I could watch two men being not only in love, but also in lust. That show helped to literally internalise acceptance of gay relationships. For a few years after after watching it, every time someone said something homophobic about gay men, my mind would flash back to that scene and fuel the anger I felt at other people’s bigotry. Yay for the power of television. And for Michael C. Hall.
Applemangh for me the show that did that was mordern family. For the first time I was like oh these characters are gay....but there still normal people
MaMiMuMa I very highly disagree with the idea that Love, Simon’s only trait was that it’s gay, because it absolutely wasn’t.
@@kawaii33366 That's an eternal paradox in midia, because that's not really where being gay ends. You have way many more problems than that. No gay just ends up looking to anyone outside as "Regular but happens to be gay" because they're never treated like that and at the same time because they want fo be whoever they want while presenting outside of the norm. However they should just be considered normal. They are regular people, but it's always weird how when they are treated as "regular, but happens to be gay" it's that normally they entirely ignore any mannerisms, social ways the personality is molded by, redundancy, society.
@@matiasalderetevelazquez9628 Really? More than Will & Grace?
Friends is like that straight but lgbt supporting friend that loves you but is tone deaf in a lot of conversations
just like my siblings. whom all think the show is hilarious.
It’s like that friend that’s like “oh I support lgbt people, just let them live lol” but get uncomfortable when you tell them you’re bisexual
Do people genuinely dislike this show because of its outdated political views that were made over a decade ago? This is a sitcom show-- far from being political in nature, and the "not pc" elements make up such a minuscule amount of the show that saying it "aged badly" overall is a bit ridiculous.
@@legoyoda9782 I mean its comedy also aged poorly on the level of just like aesthetic sensibilities
That's all the people who like friends too
My irritation with the show was Monica is a chef but obviously does not work long hours and gets paid very well. This is not the reality of a chef in a large city.
They all had jobs but managed to spend A LOT of time together at the same time 🤣🤣🤣
So fuckin true damn, my chef deadass works like 60 hrs a week it’s crazy
@@SpookySammy u do realise it's a show about them being friends therefore the most scenes they'd show us is them hanging out n being friends. Nobody wants to see them working long hours.
@@loveisanopendoor3532 do you realise I was being facetious 😂😂. Also it was 6 months ago, I don't care.
@@SpookySammy interesting cause you replied but its okay I get ur point.
Also I still think Joey was the best friend in terms of being 'woke'...he loved the man's bag Rachel found for him and defended it as a fashion choice even when other people were criticising him for accessorising with something 'girly' (or for accessorising at all). He was really fond of all the girly stuff Janine brought into his apartment and was comfortable with it until Chandler made it seem like a bad thing. And he was completely okay with kissing a guy for a role to the point of trying to get other men to kiss him so he could practise/research the part, whereas Chandler and Ross were so insecure about their sexualities they could barely hug another dude. The other friends were always putting him down for it but Joey was progressive, considering :/
But he cheated on women,lied to them,ghosted them n objectifed them aloooot
pottermochi also we have to remember he’s often portrayed as a joke character.
@@Someone-hl5gr sure but it made sense from a narrative standpoint
@@lampad4549 yeah but we're trying to decide who's the most progressive n non problematic friend here,ad Joey ggets cancelled for his behavior towards women imo. I mean he tried to unhook the bra of every woman he hugs, irl that's beyond harassment.
@@Someone-hl5gr what does that mean to be problematic? And I don't recall him doing that to every girl he hugs only to ones he's in a relationship with or ones that he is about to have sex , if not point me towards the episodes
What i got from this is that Friends is a great window into the mentality of middle class white people's politics of the 90s.
Friends is closer to rich white people's perception of middle class white people's political and economic beliefs
What gets me is Rachel kinda threw her dreams away for Ross. Like she was literally about to move to paris to work in fashion with Ralph Lauren. I am still so mad. Rachel deserved way better.
Right? I remember people praising it and 'breaking down horribly' over the romantic 'twist'. Ugh, kill me.
Seriously!! And my parents will gush about how great a couple they are but even at the couples best, they were still terrible to each other
I think that its more about how Rachel often chose work over ross, skipping their anniversary for a deadline and hangning out with workfriends.
But when it counted in the end she still chose him over work
@@nooisebots The problem is that when it counted it actually made sense to choose work and career over him. Hanging out is one thing but an amazing opportunity of your dreams for someone you aren't the best with doesn't really make sense. Why did she do all the other stuff then?
your comment encapsulates the modern mind so well. First individual desires over compromise, small tunnel vision over the big picture, and career over relationships. Bravo
What's strange for me as someone who grew up with the show and watching it into my teens is I always viewed the gay and trans jokes as laughing at the ignorance of the characters. The male nanny was funny because Ross was being so unreasonable and the episodes with Chandler's dad was funny because he was so weird about it despite his dad clearly being happy. Then again as a young kid who wasn't fully aware that I myself was a part of the LGBT+ community at that point may have been subconsciously looking for the reassurance that people's ignorance were the butt of the joke, and not the people like me.
same here. I mean, I'm not really a part of LGBT+ stuff, but, I always took those jokes as laughing at their ignorance or uncomfortability/inability to change to the situation. Especially whenever they were insecure about their manliness etc.
Exactly, that is how I felt when I watch the show. They were making fun of the ignorance not the lgbtq people....
Same here. Watched it recently and it’s the same? Seems that you’re meant to always laugh at Ross for being so insecure, not anyone else. Friends isn’t the best made show but I do think it holds up better than people give it credit for. I wonder if these people originally laughed at the lgbt characters and presumed everyone else did too?
I'm by no means part of any LGBT group, but I saw it the same way. All the LGBT characters are portrayed as regular people and at times, people go out of their way to help them (Ross is pushed to help his ex save the wedding and walk her down the aisle, which as he says he would not be expected to were she marrying a man). People complain about things like Chandler saying he likes lesbian porn - yes, right here in this very comment section. This is not an actual issue, it is just some idiots wanting desperately to be offended by everything.
The problem is that at the end of the day, Ross is the main character. He gets to be a person outside of that. He appears on almost every episode, is the emotional POV a lot of the time, and at the end of the day, he never really gets reprimanded for his discriminatory views. Instead, the LGBT characters are rare, appear scarcely, are lostly there for laughing stock and then forgotten. It creats the idea that its okay to treat them like that becaus its funny. Its not as bad as it could be, but can we just agree to burn Ross at the stake?
SJW stands for Space Jam Watchers
Don't insult space jam like that lmao
Smooth Jazz Waluigis
Yeet.
Stupid Jay Walkers
Come on and slam
And welcome to democratic socialism
The biggest thing I noticed when watching friends was how it treats gender. I understood that gay and trans awareness is in a much different place, but how casual Friends is with sexism is kind of weird to watch now. A lot of it is played off as a joke, but its still there.
Alexander Colefield Jokes are jokes.
They really go hard on making sure the characters are enforcing each other's gender roles. It's annoying.
@white america's worst nightmare hello
Yeah, the friends always had to fall into heir respective genders, barely even deviating to liking something the other would like without it being frowned upon or at least a joke
@@alexandercolefield9523 Very true, dude. Bothers me now too. Never noticed as a kid. But I was recently rewatching the show, and in an episode Ross (or was it Chandler?) completely freaks the fuck out because Joey's new _female_ roommate has made the house look too feminine and is teaching Joey "womanly" things like flower arrangement (because guys can't like plants apparently). That episode really made me want to rip my hair out.
thank you for this lol im gay & trans and i watched friends for the first time ever- no nostalgia goggles beyond seeing a couple episodes on tv/at a friend's house in the early 2010's- on netflix, all the way through, every episode, and it was one of the worst television experiences of my life. people act like having a critical eye for these things is just people trying to get woke points online or being offended for the sake of being offended or something but no sometimes it just sucks to be a person trying to watch a show everyone around you thinks is so good they havent stopped talking about it for 30 years only to find out they were laughing at people like you the whole time.
im genuinely curious why you watched all of the show if you hated it so much. not trying to critize just asking
Shrug Life Comedy couple reasons: when something is a big enough cultural phenomena, its interesting to see all of it just to know what it is the rest of the world has apparently been talking about, at a certain point it became an issue of determination and i think i finished all 10 seasons in a week or two, the first two weeks of the year it went on netflix and that actually inspired me to then spend the year watching long running famous sitcoms all the way through, many of which i really really loved, and i want to work in tv/film so i also considered it a learning experience- knowing what you dont like, when creating art, is equally as important as knowing what you do like, imo. and also honestly just some good old fashioned disgust, im not above hate-watching from time to time and it was honestly so bad sometimes it was... kind of unbelievable? also finally i have ocd and i generally dont like not finishing shows, i also dont like starting shows in the middle if i actually intend to watch it
lmao sorry this is so long im wordy
oh hey, same gender+sexuality
Yeah I’m a lesbian, and watching the treatment of carol and Susan FROM THE VERY FIRST EP was awful, not to mention the constant comments sexualising wlw, like when chandler and ppl talk about enjoying girl on girl porn and such
I can't believe this show is a quarter of a century old now. I remember watching the very first episode back in 1994. It was on after Roseanne and I thought I'd give it a go. I have to say, this is the only show that made me laugh back then and still makes me laugh now. While being largely progressive for its time in many ways, it's important to acknowledge and challenge the problematic elements of this show. Keeping dialogues like this going is how we progress and get better. Great video.
to me friends is like junk food for your brain. It's not really good for you, but it's comfortable.
Not everything needs to be a complex breakdown of society. Sometimes we need just some thing to relax @ the end of a long day of work.
Jonathan Bowers yeah but at the very least it should try to avoid feeding you actively harmful messages....
@@EC-yw5hg young people are generally too naive to see these "actively harmful" messages, and a lot of people were old enough to see Friends as just a comedy from its time. I can't find someone that actually felt that Friends was really a matter of serious thought, today no one remembers Friends and their characters like smart role models, just cartoons of real persons. you can't judge a thing of the past, with the eyes of the present, specially a damn sitcom
This is the same feeling I have toward scrubs. The humor has aged pretty poorly, but I really like a lot of the characters and it makes me happy/very sad.
me w twilight
As much as I love friends, its bread and butter was uncomfortable gender based humor and none of that is fun to rewatch.
Oh wow. I never thought you'd be a Jack Saint fan, Tama
@James Horton thats just stereotyping. and those kind of jokes are really lazy tbh and the most normie kind you could make. hard to find stuff funny when the market is so oversaturated with it.
@James Horton what are you doing here?
Go laugh at rape jokes
Aweeeeee welp I'm sorry there was a show with straight people. They should have turned all of them different "genders", to make everyone less offended. It would have only made it better. The show was never funny, sucked, and had horrible writing/acting
@@dylanfitch2997 Trying too hard there buddy.
Me: *watches this video*
TH-cam: Ohh, I get it! You want to watch 5 Ben Shapiro wrecks SJW videos, 10 3-hour long Sargon streams, 41 Liberals Destroyed by Logic videos, and Cucker Carlson Being Racist Compilation disguised as an SJW wrecking video!
I know you made this comment a year ago, but there is an extension that can help with that. Hbomb's TH-cam Censorship Addon works pretty well for me. It just stops youtube from recommending me every video by a gross anti-feminist, anti-lgbt person who opens their mouth near a microphone.
@@crimefite1316 is there one for the phone?
@@JC-jd1us I have no idea, sorry I couldn't be more helpful on that one.
I can look at a picture that I drew when I was 11 years old, and I can have a lot of fondness for it, yet still think "well, obviously, I wouldn't draw like that NOW."
I think we can apply the same perspective to media that we consumed when we were younger. We can enjoy and appreciate it for what it was and what it meant to us at the time, yet still move on from it.
Hell, we can apply that to our younger selves. I mean, surely that's what growing up IS.
We should try to appreciate what we did right and improve upon what we didn't.
Even a bad show can have some genuinely good parts, and those are worth praising, just as the bad parts are worth critiquing.
Some of the most cringeworthy parts for me are where the women themselves undermine the men by calling them “girls” or saying things like they’re scared to lose against a “bunch of girls” - why would you undermine men by undermining yourself. I also hated how much the girls were sexualized - It made it so that these men viewed every female in a sexual manner, even their closest friends.
That's literally the worst part. I know understand why dudes a little bit older than me have crippling issues surrounding their gf's male friends. This show is ass. I got to season 3 but ross is just so fucking insufferable, his whole relationship with Rachel is toxic and shitty. I hate that they're still going to end up together.
@@purpleenthusiast5814 the WORST worst part is Ross and Rachel getting back together in the final episode 🤢
Snowflake
Why doesn't Ross, the largest friend, simply eat the other five!
eric andershine you copied the other guy
THIS MAN
ate my son
Surprised you didn't talk about How I met your mother. Always thought that was the true successor to friends and I've always been surprised that people aren't more upset about it since it essentially has all the PC problems of friends but it was released later when they should have known a little better.
It's a childish show so people look the other way.
The thing with How I met your mother (imo) is the ending. People will always talk about the ending first and foremost. It caused such a potent reaction, both negative and positive, that it derails any possible analysis of the show, as people will tend to focus more on the ending and its controversy (Beacuse that ending wad so BAD...imo). (Sorry for my English, not my first language).
do NOT get me started on Barney Stinson. I will scream.
That boy straight up lied to women in every episode so that they would sleep with him for 7 (7 right?) seasons and Kid-Me ate that shit up because I did not know better. It honestly makes me so angry.
@@oof-rr5nf oh yeah. Barney Stinson raised a whole generation of pick up artists.
@@PixelRenaissance "who's hot and who's Scott."
I absolutely love It's Always Sunny because they haven't been afraid to dedicate entire episodes to, and revisit, sensitive topics from the very beginning. But the reason it's *so fucking good* even 14 years later is that they ONLY reference distasteful things they've done in the past to bring the show writers' language surrounding minorities up to current standards - they never do it to redeem the characters by having them straight up apologize. The characters are supposed to be assholes. They say things that most people know are bad, but McElhenney knows how to evolve the edgy humor over the years to make fun of his own characters' ignorance. For example, before he came out the joke wasn't that Mac was gay haha so gross, it's that his friends didn't really care but he himself was in so much denial. Anyway I love Sunny thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Agreed the only real offensive jokes in Its always sunny were the jokes surrounding carmen.
you got any shows similar to this?
@@COOLMCDEN yea i've only seen 1 or 2 seasons but those ones made me kinda uncomfortable.
@@COOLMCDEN Even then, only some of her portrayal is offensive. Other than her interactions with The Gang, she's shown to be a confident, successful, well-adjusted person who is treated respectfully by everyone else. The main joke being that The Gang are seemingly the ones making a big deal out of her being transgender. The creators have also admitted that their handling of the character was very much "of the time" and that their attitudes have since changed on the matter.
Skimmed a few comments and didn't see anything mentioned in them or in the video, itself, but what about the one where Carol and Susan got married? That was a pretty big push. It was only the second gay wedding on TV, just a few weeks after the first and already in the plans to be done, so I don't think it was a "we gotta do one too" kind of episode. But yeah, pro-wedding and the person playing the officiator was (is?) a big LGBTQ ally IRL, Candice Gingrich who is, herself, non-binary I believe. Candice's brother, Newt Gingrich, was also a big anti-LGBT advocate in the right wing, so choosing her specifically definitely comes across as a political push (in the right direction). It was so controversial at the time that there were some cities that refused to air that episode. I feel like that shows what the political climate was like back then, and why their inclusion of the content was actually beneficial and forward thinking, for the time.
You bring up It's Always Sunny as a better successor in this area but I also wonder how people will look back on it 10-20 years after it's done being on the air and if they will think it's problematic, too. I think a lot of this is hindsight bias, when it comes to Friends. For its time it was progressive (probably why my conservative parents didn't want me watching it, but I still did, and it was what put the concept of LGBTQ in my head as real people).
The other thing I often bring up is how Chandler had disconnected from his "dad?" because of the gender/crossdressing thing yet Monica is the one that pushed him to get back in touch and reconnect, a message saying that this kind of thing shouldn't be what splits a family.
The good doesn't invalidate the bad. A show can have conflicting messages, particularly if some are overt and others are unintentional.
And while a show can be appreciated for humanizing LGBTQ people, at this point in time, we as a society (or at least the non homophobic part of society) demands more than showing that an LGBTQ person is not automatically bad.
@@LounaM11 Yeah, Friends wouldn't be able to make a lot of those jokes today. But we can't go back and rewrite past episodes. All we can do is watch them and do our best to remember the time frame of when it came out and how it fits in that time.
And for what it's worth, I'm saying this as someone who is trans. There are definitely moments that make me cringe and feel uncomfortable, but I can overlook a lot of it by keeping in mind the political climate that existed when the episodes came out.
@@Galiant2010 In total agreement.
@@Galiant2010 we can do that, and also criticise what we don't like! Being gracious about the time period in which it aired does not require hand-waving things in it which are wrong. If it is wrong now, it was wrong then. I don't see why both things can't go in hand and hand. Also, being critical of media is not the same as hating on it. You can still love the show, while being critical of it.
"I think a lot of this is hindsight bias, when it comes to Friends." Well, I mean, that doesn't really mean the critique is wrong or people feeling differently now are wrong or whatever. It really isn't really much a defense, if such a observation is being used that way (not sure if you are, I just mean in general).
People were fine with some pretty fucked up shit the past. I think there is value is pointed out things done the past that we dont currently think is acceptable. W can criticize friends for some of its failings just like we can criticize some of Disney's blatantly racists or anti-Semitic cartoons from several decades before it.
The real problem IMO is all this blind pushback against any form of this. Apparently, for example, one cannot show a sexist thing in a videogame without ruining things for another person. I find that really very odd. I suppose it stems from those people agreeing, but not having the ability to look past and still find some joy in the problematic thing - or they feel personally attacked by it.
Nitpick, but I think Monica’s “he-she” comment wasn’t offensive. She was trying and genuinely didn’t know what pronouns to use and apologized. It was pretty progressive considering the humor friends usually uses...
Yes, but what matters is the coding. The scene isn't coded as her being poite, it's coded as a joke on the expense of the queer character for being too confusing with their gender expression.
@@Posiman Is it? I thought the joke was on Monica, for being out of her element. It was Monica that I laughed at.
Who did you laugh at in the scene, and why? What part was the 'humor' to you, when you viewed it?
I think there are several scene in that montage, including this one, which have their positive interpretations ruined by the placement of a laugh track. Take for example, the clip of Chandler (I think, Idk the show well so I might be mixing names up) talking about his parents splitting up because of another man; a better show could take those uncomfortable feelings and use them to create a genuine character flaw, which this character then overcomes, but Friends instead has him say "the guy was always good to my dad" and then places a laugh track in, making it so the purpose or joke of the interaction can't possibly be anything other than "ha ha, his dad is gay, isn't that funny?" The placement of laugh tracks code scenes like this as making being gay or trans the butt of the joke, rather than the characters incompetence or unhealthy viewpoints being the source of humor.
But "he-she" is very much a slur. Even by 90's standards, there are better ways to go about not knowing someone's gender than calling them a he-she to their face and playing it off as you weren't sure what to call them. What about... I don't know... Asking them how to refer to them politely?
@@Posiman yikers.
i love this show, but always skip the episodes dealing with chandler's transgender parent. "this person from a marginalized community is a freak" is the laziest type of humor there is, & some may argue that comedy is subjective, but there is a real science behind how to structure an effective joke. comedy that primarily consists of "trans people are freaks lol" isn't just offensive to trans people, it's offensive to the art of comedy itself.
I think you missed the joke, the humor is in Chandler being unreasonably stubborn not he father bein trans
@@maverickdarkrath4780 Chandler hates his dad because he left his mother to pursue a lover and later life of casual sex in Vegas, not because of his LGBT thing. He is embarrassed by his Trans/drag lifestyle on the same level as he is embarrassed by his straight mother's sexuality.
@@petrmaly9087 Being embarrassed about these things is equaly bad though.
Maverick darkrath I mean... you’re not wrong, but the fact that the show refuses to acknowledge Chandler’s biological father as anything other than a cis gay man makes it deeply uncomfortable to watch now.
Preach!!!
Honestly even before I realized I was queer, the show made me deeply uncomfortable just due to how the entire plotlines would center around a group of friends who didn't feel comfortable enough to be honest with each other. It's like Supernatural, everyone talks about how much they love the show and I'm sitting here screaming "JUST HAVE A GODDAMN CONVERSATION" for an entire episode lol
thats why its evangelion for normies
Most people I know are emotionally repressed and will let stuff stew for a decade before they finally say something.
But do you get how the funny plots wouldn't have worked if they hadn't constantly kept secrets from each other?
A lot of these criticisms don't acknowledge the fact that the main job of a comedy is to be funny.
One of the ones that infuriated me was when Ross and Joey was having consensual, enjoyable naps together. And then all of the friends were suddenly standing over them shaming them What is wrong with napping with someone if there are no consent issues or sexual harassment? In either a sexual or non-sexual context. Why was that something to be mocked? It was all conveyed as if there was something to be ashamed of and just the lack of accepting people. And there was this undercurrent of unspoken bullshit that nobody even tried to argue against arrghhh... Sorry if I make no sense lol
lol every friend group I know or have been in has this problem constantly. It is very realistic that bad communication and character flaws create chaos in a friend group or family, and it would be weird if everything was perfect and everyone was honest.
genuinely, the most uncomfortable thing about this show for me was ross. he’s extremely manipulative, insufferably jealous, and neurotic to the point of screaming hysterically on so many occasions, but he never suffers any real consequences. it’s enough to make me feel bad for rachel.
Worst sitcom character ever, until Ted Mosby came along and stole the 'most pathetically insecure man trying to pass his bad behaviour off as romantic' crown
Sounds like the average Gen Zer.
I could never get into Friends, even as a kid. None of the characters seemed likable to me, they treated everyone badly and the laugh track made me wanna break shit.
nukanuka I love Friends, but some of the Friends do drive me nuts sometimes. Especially Ross, Phoebe, Rachel, actually I’ll just say everyone, but Joey. Monica, Ross, and Chandler bothered me the most. Sometimes their flaws just became too much.
@@FullmoonPhantom-dn2sr So you don't like anyone except 2 people on a sitcom but still love the show? I'm too young to have watched it and debating when I get more time to see it but what you said really deturred me. What's good about the show then?
Wasn't Friends filmed in front of a live audience?
Laverne Blaszczyk I LOVE both Friends and Seinfeld. Oh and can’t forget Frasier. I was a kid in the 90’s but the TV in my room made is super easy to watch them all! I can’t seem to find the other two anywhere to watch. I’ve already rewatched friends like 6 times.
Seinfeld was a “show about nothing” and I need that in my life right now! I think everybody does! Haha
I love how he's so loud about how criticizing something doesn't mean it's cancelled because honest to god some people think they're the same thing
friends: "what if i don't wanna be a shoe? what if I wanna be a purse or a hat?" Rachel's arc is learning to risk being rejected by her family to live her life authentically and find herself
also friends: chandler have transgender parent pls laugh now ahaa
Rachel's arc ends with her getting with Ross instead of being who she wants to be..... Really sad imo
(disclaimer: if the largest friend had actually seemed to be more appealing to her individual aspirations than her prospective job, it would actually have been romantic and fulfilling to sacrifice a career 'in the name of love'. But that's not what happened imo)
Friends isn't always my thing but whenever it's on TV it's something chill to watch. Of course, as trans and gay, I really hope I don't stumble across _those_ episodes. I'm praying I don't. Besides, if there's any show that deserves to be done to death in essay videos, it's The Big Bang Theory (not saying this video is overdoing anything but TBBT is overdone for good reason).
don't wish to offend you or anyone else that see this, if anything i like to learn. But I love the show, and always thought it took a very good and interesting view of 'those' subjects while using comedy, however i have no connection with any of these problematic issues and would generally like to know what so bad about them ?
So what will do if you run into those episodes, just skip them over?
@@bree320 Great point dude.
Friends is dated, but TBBT is stupid and misogynist at its core. My brother describes it as "nerdface" for how it depicts nerds and nerd culture.
I'm gay and the gay episodes don't bother me. I feel as if, you shouldn't let a TV show bother you and if you do maybe it's more about you than the show. "Friends" was the TV version of a popcorn movie. It wasn't about social issues or addressing them because it was just there to entertain and if you can't laugh at yourself once in a while.
I can say even public figures I dislike the most, I mean out and out can't stand, have won me over by laughing at even mocking themselves. Its a mark a maturity.
Just want to remind everyone that Courtney cox's bangs in scream 3 were a war crime
I salute you for your service to the public.
In America we don't prosecute our war criminals
how the fuck does that even happen???!
As a fan of Scream, Scream 3 itself is a war crime.
@@MalcH no coutnry prosecute war ciminals if its isnt forced too.muricans have most of them though.
Funny thing is, I've seen far right TH-cam channels talking about Friends like it was the first malicious wave of left-wing agenda to normalise 'the gays', and further the liberal mindset. Personally, I just think it was a good show in the context of its time and we should view it as such.
Some of the right think that literally anything other than the nuclear family is the end of western civilisation
i think we can do both we can appreciate the show for what it did right and still criticize other elements as well and those specific criticisms dont mean the show is bad just like the good bits dont mean the problems dont still exist
Yeah. People are nowadays talking about old shows and treating them like they were made this year. Enjoy the comedy of the time if you can, you dont have to take everything as a battle against you.
Exactly! People complaining about it being offensive really have way too much time on their hand imo. They seem to forget in what time the show was made. And also. It’s comedy! Not everything has to be 100% inclusive and woke all the time. Some jokes being a little bit on the edge are what makes them funny. And I’m part of the lgbt community too but damn can we all stop being so super sensitive and searching for things to be offended by
I think a lot of people struggle with this concept specifically because of their own extremism. Some people view the world in terms of "good" and "bad" and don't know how to deal with the stuff that's in between. So when you say "this is not good lgbt representation," or "this has sexist undertones," or "this fantasy racism is poorly thought out," all they hear is "the thing you like is Bad Now and can never be good again." Then, since they're now perceiving this as a binary choice between Thing I Like and Voice of My Conscience/Respect of My Peers, they clench up and double down and instead try to spin the Bad moniker back around on what they see as the accusers. It becomes about defending Thing I Like instead of actually critically examining their biases and preconceptions.
The ironic part is where they start accusing everyone else of being "too PC!!" or "such a SJW!!" when in fact it's their own extreme approach, and inability to appreciate things that are not 100% Good in their minds, that is the source of their own suffering.
But here's the million dollar question, friendo: WHERE DOES SEINFELD FIT INTO ALL OF THIS???
Not much better
Not that there's anything wrong with that...
It's a show... about NOTHING!
When I was a kid I loved Friends a whole lot. In my early teens I was in a very dark place emotionally and I actually wrote a list with reasons not to kill myself: watching every episode of Friends was one of the items on that list. Nowadays, I can't even watch it. It sucks so much. The worst part is how extremely fragile the masculinity of the three main guys are, and how that often manifests as misogyny and homophobia. I don't judge other people for still liking it, but for me it has gone from one of the few things that brought me comfort and joy to a show I actively hate.
Agreed Friends is a very feel good show that distracts one and lifts mood due to its light tone. But it does so at the cost of trivialising a lot of issues like weight, gender roles, bullying, sexuality etc
@Drinker_Of_Milk fuck you for making fun of someone for having contemplated suicide. what trash you are.
But that's the point of the joke. The joke is that it's stupid how scared they are of being "feminine", gay or whatever.
I always saw the same abouth the guys.
mona floma no, the jokes more often than not are about how they’re acting feminine and gay. Take for example, when the audience laughs uproariously at joey getting a purse, or when Chandler listens to an anti smoking tape Monica lent him and begins acting girly (whilst promoting a TON of sexist stereotypes), whilst the other characters are framed as the sane ones for finding it awful
love something that knocks friends down a peg while uplifting sunny
You mean every Sunny fan? I love Sunny, it's one of my favourite tv shows, but the fans are the sitcom equivalent of the Rick & Morty fanbase. They love shitting on every show that's popular.
My family didn't watch friends much but I remember very clearly seeing the episode you're using to talk about the issues with transphobia when I was a little girl. My family's reaction to her & the way that the show made it clear that this was a normal & accepted way to treat trans people made me cry & still comes to mind every time my family pretends that they would've supported me. I could never actually watch friends after that.
That's so shitty, I am so sorry dude.
@@oof-rr5nf I'm not a dude, please don't call me one. But thank you. I'm happy that all the shit from my childhood is behind me now.
@@SeraSmiles I am sorry. :)
I personally just use it as a gender neutral term. Still sorry tho!
I am happy for you too.
Sera Smiles the Empathy is strong with this one
I recently re-watched it in isolation, and I did enjoy some parts of it, but I definitively feel uncomfortable with a lot of stuff. I remember cheering on for ross a lot more back in the day, now he seems kinda really creepy? And controlling. But that's actually really good, shows how far we are growing and evolving.
I like watching an episode from time to time. Mainly nostalgia from the style and design but it's cool to see things through a modern lense. Agree with you about ross, back then he felt like the underdog hero, now he just seems like a classic "nice guy" that feels entitled because he's not a jock. I wonder what I'll think of it in another 20 years
@@Merahki3863”modern lense”, no the modern perspective is stupid
When Friends first aired I was DEEPLY closeted and I felt that it even mentioning queer people was, oddly enough, the most progressive thing on television. Back then my parents didn't allow me to watch Ellen or anything else remotely accepting of GLBT issues. Friends problematic take was literally as good as it got for me- and I loved it! Any episode that so much as mentioned Ross' wife made me feel so much better- we did exist! And for all that they mock her, they largely accept her. Growing up in a fundamentalist culture, it managed to reach me where nothing else could.
So as an adult with all these fond memories I went back on Netflix to watch it again... and was appalled. These days there are lots of shows with good representation and I don't have to settle, and it just doesn't hold up anymore. Friends was a product of its time and unfortunately that time was shitty for us. Better than previous decades, definitely, but well short of something good for queer people.
So I love friends still, in context, but I'm so very glad that it seems anachronistic now.
I've always seen 'It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia' as the successor to 'Seinfeld'.
There's also Curb Your Enthusiam
@@JordanSullivanadventures thats just Seinfeld part 2 electric boogaloo
Thanks for this. I still would say I like and enjoy friends, but there are definitely episodes that made me super uncomfortable on my last rewatch, and I can only imagine it getting worse with time
i agree, i've been a fan since i was super tiny and remember excitedly talking about the finale with my friends in line for lunch in 6th grade lol. so i've seen all episodes numerous times and everytime i watch an ep, i just think. wow this did not age well at all. so like jack said, it's complicated!
I think that humor is the medium that ages the quickest
His only redeeming quality is that David Schwimmer was the most committed actor...
People like you is the reason the left isn’t taken seriously
My only exposure to Friends was when my dentist put an episode on and kept pausing her work on my teeth to watch the TV :/
Well, they had a trans woman played by a woman. That’s remarkably progressive, given how many shows and movies still can’t seem to get that.
Why would a trans woman do drag? Isn't that the opposite of being trans? I'm kinda shocked the fandom rewrote the character to represent what they want instead of what it was
lindsay paige I don’t know where you’ve been, but trans women are very active in the drag community.
@@lindsaypaige4628 anyone can do drag, it has nothing to do with being trans
@@SindriMjolnir that... just proves they are just playing dress up then
@@lepetitangesf sure but it defeats the purpose of doing drag if you "identify" as what you are dresssing as, that'd just mean you are dressing how you identify
I grew up in a Seinfeld house so maybe I’m bias thinking it’s apples and oranges comparing Always Sunny to Friends. How I Met Your Mother is the spiritual successor to Friends- Always Sunny is the modern Seinfeld.
Never saw a connection between HIMYM and Friends, like, at all
HIMYM was better. The characters were less obnoxious and it had better humor. There are still a lot of problems though.
Its Always Sunny is leagues better than Seinfeld, probably because the Gang get regularly called out for their fucked up behavior. With Seinfeld its presented as nrormal.
@@blueberrymuffin_144 The ending 😣
imo HIMYM is the spiritual successor of cheers. They even played the jingle in the puzzle episode. Hanging in a bar, picking up women, the playbook is obviously a reference to sammy's notebook, focus on the difficulty of long lasting relationship...
I've never watched Friends in my life, but I watched this whole vid
Oh! Don't forget the bit where Phoebe screams "Well now I've seen everything!" at a lesbian wedding!
But that was okay. Because she was possessed by a ghost at the time.
She was supposed to be possessed by the ghost of a cranky old woman who fit every stereotype of a cranky old woman. This includes homophobia. I kind of felt the joke was on her not accepting that times changed and not on the couple. I still feel like Carol and Susan's relationship, for the most part, still hold up. (Chandler's dad and other aspects very much not so.)
I actually really liked that scene. It’s portrayed as something Phoebe would never say herself, and it’s 100% something a cranky old woman would say. It’s very clear in my opinion.
That was not something you would think exists or happens or would happen. A woman and a woman getting married wasn't something people would think possible.
“She always drank it out of a can i should have known” is still funny tho lmao
*sips from bottle in lesbian*
It's such a harmless joke. Pathetic that people get offended by it.
Congrats you missed the point.
@@notadolphin9995 The point being....?
@@spenser9908 "I am offended" is not the message of the video. "Views change and that makes old stories we have nostalgia for difficult to interact with because their views remain the same since those stories are finished but I continue to live and grow and discover new perspectives" is the message. He is not bitching about Friends. He repeatedly says he loves the show. He is critiquing how writers of the show set out to represent a certain type of Americans only and how this led to them inadvertently causing harm with how they portrayed certain minorities. The criticism is valid. If that personally does not jell with your experience with the show, it's fine.
It's Always Sunny seems more like a successor to Seinfeld then Friends.
lmac40762 Seinfeild is pretty funny to me ngl
Rob McElheny said that Friends inspired him to make Always Sunny. He said wanted to make the Anti-Friends, where instead of seeing these likable, attractive people, you see terrible people who are unlikable.
I've had a similar situation when I started rewatching Malcom in the Middle last month. It's probably one of the few family sitcom shows that actually challenged the status quo and never shied away from asking tough questions. Appreciated it a lot more because of that.
oof. The 90's. Where is was socially acceptable to have trans ppl as butt of a joke for no reason other than "They different!". My perspective on friends changed when my dad complained about how "white" the show was. I didn't know what he meant at the time, I was only 13 or so. As as adult, I totally see what he meant.
Strange, even through I'm mixed I saw whiteness as norm and didn't think much of lack of minorities. I mean, the show takes place in new york city. The One of the most diverse places in the world.
Oh right, I wonder if your dad complained about how black The Cosby Show was? Hmmm...
@@spenser9908 no, because white people have always had enough representation in the media
@@sokkvabekkr5973 In which media? Bollywood? Asian Cinema? Seems to be a severe underrepresentation of white people in those industries. Could it be that white people are fairly represented in numbers in predominantly white countries and you don' like that?
@Iceboat Indians and Asian people are subject to Asian and Indiana media on a daily basis too, ya know? What would be your point?
@Iceboat They're subject to Asian people or Indian people over there too on a daily basis. Are you not paying attention?
You didn't even research DocFuture's "A semi-alphabetical listing of Black actors with speaking roles on Friends" master piece. I'm sad.
THANK YOU. That was some real good shit.
Link for anyone else who did not know either:
th-cam.com/video/oUc0vbSlanM/w-d-xo.html
THANK YOU That was so enjoyable lmao.
My favourite thing about how there’s basically a generation finding and watching friends for the first time on Netflix decrying it as a tone deaf politically incorrect product of its time... is that we now have a generation watching glee for the first time and just loudly screaming “WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS MESS I LOVE IT??”
No but I enjoy friends for what it is- I just think people get too defensive as much as people get offended. To paraphrase the gamer gate lady, you can enjoy something and be critical of it. I can totally enjoy the 90s vibes of Ross and Rachel being on a break one minute and say they handled treatment of trans characters about as well as a dropped pie. We can talk about how there’s even Disney channel shows that covered racism, challenges of disabled people and eating disorders (I’m mainly thinking of that’s so Raven, the little mermaid, and Lizzie McGuire there) but friends didn’t. And it’s okay for your water cooler conversation to go from “I’m SUCH a Monica!” To “pretty weird everyone was white huh?” Without the show being evil now. No shows are perfect and we all love consuming and discussing media so the conversation should evolve too. Except for the good place, the good place is perfect.
Yeah. And Glee as a show is a much younger than friends so Glee is more "relatable" to this time period.
Honestly as an enby Monica's "sorry I'm new" bit was cute! Like she's doing her best but genuinely doesn't know and would change her behavior if informed. If only the rest of it was like that - respect and willingness to learn from other, often more marginalized communities!
I think something else to keep in mind is Friends came out at a time when audiences were sick of 80s and early 90s sitcoms beating people over the head very clumsily with the "very special episode " trope. These came across as very blunt and preachy and I think Friends and a few other shows really shied away from that perhaps a bit too aggressively and basically told their audience we won't make you think about anything.
This is why I couldn’t keep watching glee, after school specials are annoying after a certain point
If you have to make special episodes you think your audience is stupid and they noticr it and thats why people dont like them. You can show the message without making it as a big thing. As a example from a friends episode of Joey's purse. It makes you think about male purses yourself without preaching it to your brains. Also nice info i didnt know that might have happened at that time!
MY SJW POWERS ONLY GO SO FAR I LOVE IT!!
awwww he never said you can't :3
Really? Mine extend the confines of physical reality.
Sad
MONICA IS WHAT, JACK!?!?!?
fantastic vid, love these light examinations and revisitations of older media as it sees new light.
Mexie is Monica
Mexie seems too down-to-earth to be Monica. Mexie would probably be Emily, the girl Ross almost married before hooking up with Rachel. She was smart and successful, and as far as I remember, nobody had a problem with her.
maria the witch
I think your right in your observation that the reason Friends has become uncomfortable is that it had been, at the time, the pinnacle of "politically correct" material. Because it give a very popular mirror in which to view just how bogus we were in the not so distant past.
I was incredibly happy when you brought up It's Always Sunny as a counterpart to Friends because, looking back at Friends from a modern lens, the actual characters seem more and more like crazed sociopaths. So, to sort of summarize one of the video's key points, both Friends and It's Always Sunny are shows about a group of asshole sociopaths, it's just that It's Always Sunny is consciously aware of this, while Friends can never bring itself to admit this due to the conceit that they need to make the cast "relatable" to the audience.
I read you and think that both shows portrayed the 90s attitude, one celebrating it, the other with slight criticism
Tbh tho it is relatable to a lot of people because a lot of people r kinda like that
For a little I tried a thing where I hit “next episode” when a joke like this came up, I went through the seasons pretty quick hah
you revealing that you've watched "friends" through this video was really a bold move. Has your channel recovered to such a powerful blow????
I've tried to watch friends a few times in the past, but one thing keeps bugging me. Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other five?
I never liked Friends( not because of these issues) but because it wasn't my cup of tea. The comedy was dry and the laugh tracks made it even more boring. But it's okay if someone likes it.
friends didnt use a laugh track. they filmed in front of a studio audience.
Friends also had a live audience
I liked it when I was a kid.
Anytime I've come across any episodes in the last couple decades I've found it incredibly boring, unfunny, deliberately dry & milquetoasty pablum.
And the "being afraid of being seen to be gay" is painful. It implicitly communicates that there actually *IS* something wrong with that.
And, shush, no one joke in one show doesn't communicate that there's something wrong with being gay [because of the clear fear that characters who aren't queer have about being seen as being queer]. What I'm pointing at is the ... volume of those jokes, over & over in show after show and across all the different networks at the time. (My parents refused to get cable, so even if there was better queer representation on shows on cable, I never got to see it. Either way, I'm skeptical - it was the 90s & punchlines at the expense of queer people were everywhere, it was the norm, a painfully common trope.)
I think dry may not be the right word for it. I'd just say lazy and bland
This makes it seem like you use the term "dry" for comedy as a synonym for dull, as though it's as intended to be a negative term, and as a lover of British television, my mind reels at that. Plus, I can only think of a few shows I would describe as less dry than Friends. Fat Albert, The Jeffersons..."Dry" traditionally entails understated acting.
I haven't watched the entirety of Friends in a long time, but I'm shocked (although I maybe shouldn't be) that they only had 2 POC characters in 10 seasons. In a show set in New York City.
Yup. I visited NYC last year and i saw more immigrants and African Americans on the street than whites that looked like this cast.
Friends always felt hostile to me. Like an environment where I wasn’t welcome, and the people were constantly reminding me.
The “Fun Bobby” gag haunted me when I wanted to address my drinking problem for years. It just instilled the thought that maybe I actually really boring and no one will like me sober.
Friends is my grandmothers favorite show, I think some of the moments are funny but I don't love it a ton, In general Im not a huge sitcom fan anyway.
BabyPinkSnail Ok I thought at 43 I was done with the "hey [show or game or whatever] is [n] years old. Doesn't that make you feel old?" kinda thoughts but, damn man. Friends is a gramma show now?
@@Nerdcoresteve1 My grandmother was already older when the show came out but she does love it I think she was maybe 30 when the show came out but I dont know exactly
@@Nerdcoresteve1 I don't know what my grandma's favorite was, all I know is she was on a bunch of them.
Friends is one of the very few, maybe the only one, smartly written sitcom.
@@rvbrexer You haven't watched a lot of sitcoms then.
What kinda ticks me off is that the characters never learn anything new or grow out of judgmental beliefs. Ross still fires Sandy (the nanny), everyone judged Joey and his handbag, Chandler with his "gay quality", etc. The show never sets the characters up to challenge their own ideals. Their ideals are glossed over so that we can point and laugh at something else.
If a piece of media or an entertainer relies solely on mocking marginalised groups, then that entertainer is not all that funny. However, a piece of comedy that mocks ideas, traditions and institutions will always stand the test of time. Just look at George Carlin for example. He's seen as one of the best comedians of all time and yet he rarely ever made fun of marginalised groups. He challenged all the norms from a time wayy before friends. So I think that the "different time" excuse holds no validity at all.
I usually liked "Friends" in the same way I liked "how I met your mother".... they're all stereotypes to create amusing scenarios that would be terrible people if they where real.
Friends is that show that I watch when there's nothing else interesting on and I still get laughs out of it every once in a while. The fact that some moments feel outdated it's only natural, as it is an older show, but we shouldn't ignore the problematic shit in it.
The problem is I love friends and then I go "Why are they being so terrible to one another?"
@@lyricbot8513 so that there's conflict bin the show 😂😂
I know the show didn’t intend this but I’ve always hated Ross and loved Susan.
The woman who cheated on Ross multiple tiles? And shows no real signs of deep remorse for that?
Yeah I actually don't really judge her badly either. She's so nice and friendly even when Ross is being a total jerk to Carol. And I don't really like Ross either.
But maybe thats wrong. Infidelity can slowly chip away at your spouse's well being. We're just not really shown that.
Should we really sympathize with Carol that much?
Honestly I dont know.
Sjoerd Manshanden carol was Ross’s wife Susan was her partner Ross was always a dick to, but I ahree
Susan wasn't a great person either. Both her and Carol were terrible people lmaooo
Susan never did anything wrong except call out Ross for being a jerk to her and her wife
Honestly, my issue with rewatching is always Ross now. He was the epitome of being a douche and, usually, when something was wrong or something we wouldn’t consider OK now, it usually came from Ross
Chandler had a great job and made good money. This is referenced many times. He made Joey's way. Ross had a pretty amazing job too. Monica and Rachel had rent control and at least one decent job at first. And by the time we saw where Phoebe lived, she had multiple jobs and was quite the hustler. We know she struggled in the beginning, but landed somewhere in comfortable closer to 30. It's quite possible that after spending her youth homeless, she was actually good with her money as an adult and able to save.Didn't she live with her grandmother early on?
Great vid! It does boggle my mind though when people feel/say Friends is inclusive. It's literally a story about affluent white people in NY. And as a former nonwhite New Yorker, I always wondered how the show could white wash one of the most diverse cities in America.
(i’m bi, and) as someone who grew up watching and loving the show, i still laugh at some of the jokes that, if made today, would feel very gross and offensive. and i think that’s because when i put the show on, i comfortably fall into the worldview of the show, and it’s not funny because ”haha gay” (although on a surface level it definitely seems like it) but because it subverts the expectations that this show in the 90’s fostered (for example being heteronormative). it is also because the show doesn’t really ever acknowledge the very dangerous discrimination that these marginalized groups faced and still do. so when they make these kinds of jokes, (because when watching it i accept its norms and worldview,) it just feels like another harmless joke born out of subverting expectations. but although i can still find these jokes funny, i would never blame someone for not doing that. not everybody had the luxury of forgetting the discrimination they face. and i think it’s totally normal to just find these comedic bits gross
I love that i used to be obsessed with Friends before because it makes me realize how much i've grown as a person based on how much my opinion on it has changed.
hbomb as ross??? MAKE IT HAPPEN OR IM SUING
Community next please! I was watching it recently and like, “Huh- woah.”
ikk. like i had to stop watching after they kept piecre in the group
I have zero issues going back and watching it. Gay jokes, trans jokes, not being enough of a man jokes, I love them all. It's an insight into the 90s and some great tv from that area. Nostalgia only matched my breaking out an old GameBoy
A show doesn't need social commentary. It can have it, but the lack of not taking a stance on hot button issues is what makes the show even better. If they had, it would have worsened the show
friends is one of my favorite shows, its my go to show when i am bored, my mom and i bond over the show, it means a lot to me. but i know that there are many problematic elements to it, and i think that it is important to be able to sy "hey i like this thing but it has many issues" rather than blindly loving and supporting it
This gonna be a shocker, but I only ever got around to watching friends somewhat recently out of pure coincidence(family), and maybe it's just that my taste in comedy has evolved, but I never really found it funny. Mostly awkward, but not like the great Sacha Baron Cohen awkward where the humor pushes boundaries and intentionally makes you uncomfortable, rather in a "well that didn't age well" kind of way. So when I saw you were planning this video, I was pretty hyped, and boy did you deliver.
Since you also brought up "It's Always Sunny" as a parallel, I'm wondering if you've also seen Xavier Renegade Angel. It's a show I completely turned away from because of the offputting CG and abhorrent humor, but now that I'm older, it's those aspects that I appreciate about it. It has a lot of offensive stereotypes, but they're presented in such a ridiculously over the top manner that no one in the right mind would take them seriously. If you haven't checked it out yet, it's at least worth a look. Probably one of the most surreal experiences I've had with a tv series.
Sacha Baron Cohen was never great, though. :-(
One of the things I got from this is almost the same Lindsay Ellis talked about in a Transformers video, the "too much spectacle and clutter on the screen just turns your brain off to enjoy the fireworks show" thing. I think in here applies in a similar fashion. When you dive in apolitically you will enjoy the ride, but otherwise you will notice inconsistencies or anything bad.
My guess is Friends and Michael Bay's Transforners are in no way similar, but definitely expect you to behave in a similar manner to it if you plan to enjoy it.
It also makes me a bit sad it cannot stand the test of time, but I get it, it's not supposed to generate conflict, just a fun time.
seinfeld is the far superior 90s sitcom, change my mind.
Ah, another corpse of superior taste. You're not wrong, my good skull.
It, like Sunny, had much bigger criticism of its own characters. The opposite of the main character is a really nice guy
Only because you asked...... (you of course don't need to agree about anything)
Friends had different and more protagonists to relate to. So if an audience member cannot relate to character 1, 2, 3 or 4 then perhaps 5 or 6 will do. People might argue that the Friends protagonists were more separate/apart than the Seinfeld protagonists, as well.
Friends (the show) tended to be more positive than negative. If watching Seinfeld depressed people then what's the point?
Also Friends seemed to advance through the series, for example Monica of Season 2 was different than Monica of Season 6. Did the personalities within Seinfeld change over time? (Excluding Janice)
I don't have a huge knowledge of Seinfeld so this could be claptrap. Anyway, just something to ponder over.
@Crow Ok, it just seemed like the humour of Seinfeld circled about how terribly life treated the group.
i can't
I still love and enjoy friends every time I watch it. It was made in a different era.
The one thing that really makes it annoying to me is the laugh track which very unambiguously tells me how to feel about any given scene.
friends in the high day was mocked a lot for the fact it was nearly all white cast btw
Mildly disappointed Phoebe's bisexuality wasn't mentioned, but then again if it's so subtle that it gets lost in fans' memories I guess that says something in and of itself.
Hey man first time viewer here. I appreciate your take on friends and that you very clearly express that, for its time, it was politically correct and not intentionally malicious. Thought the video raised good points in general on how minorities were not responsabily represented in the show and in some cases very negatively represented. The question I would pose regarding the final parts of the video though, is this: does entertainment carry a responsability to tackle current societal issues, or at least open a discussion on them? I love friends partly for the fact that it isn't trying to say anything. It's just a show about some friends and the antics they get up to, and to me, half the time modern shows try to take on serious relevant issues it comes across as disingeniuos (which I think it almost always is). Entertainment is, at the end of the day, an industry and the entertainment produced is a reflexion of society's demands. Social issues are a bigger deal in modern society, and so shows rise up to capitalize on this by speaking to those individuals.
I'd love hearing your thoughts on my question. Thanks for the content! keep it up my guy.
THANK YOU for this comment i could not made it to words myself. I like watching older shows bc they are entertaining. New shows arent that funny anymore, if they are made in usa, they are colourful and cheery, feeling like a kids show and rubbing everything in your face. Shows shouldnt have the responsibility of problems.
It was a sitcom, from an era in which a sitcom was the intellectual and moral equivalent of a peanut butter sandwich made with marshmallow fluff (called a fluffenutter sammich in the better trailer parks, and guess how I know...), empty entertainment meant to fill a perceived need.
At the time, it (like the mentioned sandwich) did what it was meant to do. Now, it is being looked at from a perspective of peanut allergies and the lack of nutrition in marshmallow fluff. So, yeah, it isn't going to hold up.
It’s Always Sunny is a show that on the surface looks like an offensive anti-politically correct show, but in reality it actually tackles different political issues in an interesting and fairly nuanced way.
It sometimes drifts into “both sides are equally bad” territory but a lot of the time it accurately depicts both sides and tries to make you think critically about the actions of the main characters, something Friends never really tried to do.
It wasn’t the first show I would think of to compare to Friends but it’s probably the actual best possible example to discuss.
Why is everyone in this comment section so hurt? Damn y'all gotta relax
We nico nico need to stop using sonic music in the background
Linguini saying what needs to be said
Linguini I literally only hear Persona 4 music in the background, and I'm not complaining. Like AT ALL.
Ya'll sleeping on the Ape Escape OST
Ok lemme just state that I'm thrilled to hear the "Meat circus" theme from Psychonauts? Good taste.
Not to disparage or disregard the feelings of anyone who was offended or hurt by the jokes in the show, but to me the jokes always seemed to be aimed the people who made those statements and held those views. We were meant to laugh *at* the titular friends when they made a comment or expressed an opinion that showed their ignorance. When Ross was uncomfortable with a male nanny, thinking he was gay because of his chosen career and overt "unmasculine" sensitivity, it wasn't a joke aimed at male nannies or gay men. The joke was about Ross's backwards view of the situation. The fact that he believes that only a gay man would become a nanny and that he's uncomfortable with a man who shows such sensitivity. It challenges his idea of what a man is, and that makes him uncomfortable. But by the end of the episode Ross opened up to him, and showed his own sensitive side crying while telling him about his past and his own upbringing with his father. It taught a lesson and showed how Ross was wrong.
Further Ross' homophobia regarding his Ex-wife and her partner is played for laughs, but it's once again at his own expense. He can't accept that she was always a lesbian, and he can't accept that it's not about him and that he didn't "turn her gay" even though everyone around him keeps telling him this. But that's the joke. Ross' own insecurities and inferiority complex keep him from seeing the truth and that is the part we're meant to laugh at. *His* failings, not theirs. They do seem to be some of the most stable characters on the show.
Though to be fair, his dislike for Susan is somewhat understandable as she and Carol began their relationship while Ross and Carol were still married so he sees her as the reason his marriage ended. He's not right on that last part, but they DID cheat on him and he has every right to be upset about that part at least.
Also, I would like to point out that one of the creators and producers of FRIENDS is in fact gay.
Furthermore, can we please stop saying things are "problematic"? It's bloody annoying.
I think the racial biases go a little deeper than the fact that there are only 2 recurring PoC in the series. The few times that Black people were minor characters, they were shown in unsympathetic ways and overly aggressive. The trick or treating scene where Rachel gets in an argument with a Black child and he tells her to "shut up" when she wont give her money. In the episode where Rachel is afraid of swings a black child kicks Ross in the face, seemingly on purpose, and laughs about it. When Chandler gets tricked into working from Tulsa, his boss is played by Janet Hubert and she is portrayed as vindictive and cold. Like a tempered version of the Angry Black Woman. It is interesting to me that all of these roles were given to dark-skinned Black people. It feels to me to be a cons6casting decision in all cases and it doeant sit right with me.
Who's Monica the world needs to know
I'll leave that to you, The Viewers
(it's lindsay ellis)
just monika.
@@LackingSaint its actually finnishbolshevik but I respect your freedom to pick your friends
Lindsay Ellis will be Monica and Jenny Nicholson will be Phoeboe
The first time I had my eyes opened to the fact that Friends is a bit problematic, was a professor pointing out how difficult it would be for your only 6 friends to all be white in *new york city*
One could _maybe_ see it happening, but it becomes truly implausible when 90+% of their friends, co-workers and romantic interests are likewise white, and they aren't even all rich people. Off-hand, I can only think of maybe three people the dudes dated that weren't white, and nobody of color for the chicks. In ten years? THAT is just absurd.
i always thought that chandler had two moms and just called one of them dad whoops
Chandler did have two moms. Amanda identifies herself as a woman so that's what she should be called.
I think thats the woke way of looking at it.
@@sjoerdmanshanden5162 I guess so
Tho my child mind ofcourse had no idea what trans is so I thought they weren't related in anyway
We're just assuming that the person was trans and not a drag queen.
There are several trans people with kids, that transitioned late and still refers to themselves as mom/dad even though they changed.
Caitlyn Jenner of all people said this herself. She's still "dad", but her name is Caitlyn.
@@sjoerdmanshanden5162 I think her name was Helena ; )
@@sjoerdmanshanden5162 his dad was a drag queen.
Criticism isnt censorship but a lot of people think it is. When i critise something i dont want it destroyed and to never be looked at ever again. I want people to acknowledge the Criticism and do better
friends' anti-intelectualism is cancer. No wonder Ross became such a wacko PoS, everyone of his """friends""" keep telling him he's weird, annoying, uninteresting, keep telling him to shut up, keep mocking him on his divorce and generally bully him and treat him with disrespect.