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It was a war crime Arrieta got the CY over him in 2015. 1.66 220 innings is MLB the show numbers, not to mention he had a stretch of 45 scoreless innings.
jake arrieta has only 7 more innings pitched but had more wins, shoutouts, complete games & more strikeouts on a team that had more wins than the Dodgers. so not really a crime
@@ulyssesgeorgeocana9922 Are you really gonna point out team record for a SP? There 130 games that season that neither pitcher had any involvement in. Why not point to Arrieta's also spectacular 1.77 ERA and lower FIP than Grienke.
It's also a war crime they never let dude really get abs. Dude can really hit and I honestly feel like he would be a formidable hitter and fielder if they would've let him focus on it. He would've been the first Ohtani. Maybe wouldn't have that type of power but he would've been good for 15 20
His 2009 Cy Young campaign is one of the greatest pitching seasons of all time that no one ever talks about. 16-8 record on a team that lost 97 games. He had a sub 2 ERA for most of the season. His FIP was also extremely low for the time.
I think if my Dodgers would have centered their pitching around Greinke being the ace instead of Kershaw they would have pulled a title or two with him at the helm.
But even back then, Kershaw was the guy, not Greinke, especially since Greinke was already 31 when he left in free agency compared to Kershaw being 26. For now, it seems like the Dodgers made the right decision. Zack had a below average 2016, had a small comeback for a few years but fell off after 2020, while Kershaw is still a really good pitcher even today.
This question is a good thought experiment, and I'm inclined to accept the proposition. However, it is hard to definitively answer a hypothetical like this.
You must be talking strictly about post season,he has done better in the playoffs,he's more of a money pitcher than Kershaw even though Kershaw has had a better overall career and will pass Greinke eventually for wins and strikeouts!
@@terrytitus5291 Strictly post season. Kershaw is our ace during the season no doubt. But I think come playoff time he would have been better suited in as our second or even third starter.
Yes, he's a HOF and he did it in the 2000/2010 era where getting to at least 200 wins is a tough one to do. His 2009 Cy Young season is underrated considering the Royals were a bad team that year. He does have the numbers to back up his play as well. 223 wins is pretty impressive, he even has more wins than Clayton Kershaw whom will reach 200 wins this 2023 season.
No pitcher in the history of MLB, has thrown 5 or more innings but had 2 runs or less in run support and came away with a no decision than Zack Greinke. 91 of his 156 career losses are from his time with the Royals. His Royals teams had a combined record of 571-852 during his time with them. He's now only 23 strikeouts away from reaching 3,000. Darn Covid year ruined him from getting to 3,000 already.
It's not even debatable, his career WAR is higher than 49 current hall of fame starting pitchers, he has the 25th highest career WAR of all time for a starting pitcher.
Why is this even a question? If he first ballot, No but he is most definitely a HOFer. Along with his pitching stats he also has 6 gold gloves, and 2 silver sluggers.
He's a no doubt hall of famer, average career WAR for starting pitchers in the hall of fame is 73, Greinke's career WAR is 77.5. He has the 25th highest career WAR of starting pitchers that have ever played the game. There are 49 pitchers in the hall of fame who have a lower career WAR than he does. Scherzer, Verlander and Kershaw are also no doubt hall of famers. With advanced analytics there shouldn't even be debates about who gets in anymore, they need to get rid of the ballot also, if a player has more than the average hall of fame WAR or top 1 percent for their position the should automatically be inducted.
Why aren't teams giving Zack Greinke a chance to pitch. Still better than half of the pitchers in baseball. Still out finesse hitters. Had a lot of bad luck last year. But what hurt him most was giving up hits with two outs which he never did before. Baseball exec's sign him. Still the best fielding pitcher in baseball by far. Best hitting pitcher by far. Give him a chance he goes five innings almost every outing. He is a total Hall of Famer.
Yes,he's a Hall of Famer,got practically no run support early in his career,should have at least 10 more wins! No,he's not Greg Maddux,who is? A Hall of Famer for sure!!!
@@mbdg6810 When you ask people if Kershaw is a hall of famer...We don't have to sit and discuss it. As for judge way too early to discuss. For he could have a career ending injury or totally fall apart like Bellinger.
It was a war crime Arrieta got the CY over him in 2015. 1.66 220 innings is MLB the show numbers, not to mention he had a stretch of 45 scoreless innings.
jake arrieta has only 7 more innings pitched but had more wins, shoutouts, complete games & more strikeouts on a team that had more wins than the Dodgers. so not really a crime
@@ulyssesgeorgeocana9922 Are you really gonna point out team record for a SP? There 130 games that season that neither pitcher had any involvement in. Why not point to Arrieta's also spectacular 1.77 ERA and lower FIP than Grienke.
It's also a war crime they never let dude really get abs. Dude can really hit and I honestly feel like he would be a formidable hitter and fielder if they would've let him focus on it. He would've been the first Ohtani. Maybe wouldn't have that type of power but he would've been good for 15 20
@@panner11 Yea he could've Def presented a much better argument. Bringing up WL when comparing pitchers should be a baseball crime from here on out
@@PopOutPaulie Yeah dude raked had a couple silver sluggers I think
Not only was Greinke an elite pitcher but he’s like the only Astro that didn’t catch shit in 2019 😂 dude is unstoppable
His 2009 Cy Young campaign is one of the greatest pitching seasons of all time that no one ever talks about. 16-8 record on a team that lost 97 games. He had a sub 2 ERA for most of the season. His FIP was also extremely low for the time.
I remember it,got practically no run support his 1st couple of years!
I think if my Dodgers would have centered their pitching around Greinke being the ace instead of Kershaw they would have pulled a title or two with him at the helm.
But even back then, Kershaw was the guy, not Greinke, especially since Greinke was already 31 when he left in free agency compared to Kershaw being 26. For now, it seems like the Dodgers made the right decision. Zack had a below average 2016, had a small comeback for a few years but fell off after 2020, while Kershaw is still a really good pitcher even today.
This question is a good thought experiment, and I'm inclined to accept the proposition. However, it is hard to definitively answer a hypothetical like this.
You must be talking strictly about post season,he has done better in the playoffs,he's more of a money pitcher than Kershaw even though Kershaw has had a better overall career and will pass Greinke eventually for wins and strikeouts!
@@terrytitus5291 Strictly post season. Kershaw is our ace during the season no doubt. But I think come playoff time he would have been better suited in as our second or even third starter.
Yes, he's a HOF and he did it in the 2000/2010 era where getting to at least 200 wins is a tough one to do. His 2009 Cy Young season is underrated considering the Royals were a bad team that year. He does have the numbers to back up his play as well. 223 wins is pretty impressive, he even has more wins than Clayton Kershaw whom will reach 200 wins this 2023 season.
No pitcher in the history of MLB, has thrown 5 or more innings but had 2 runs or less in run support and came away with a no decision than Zack Greinke. 91 of his 156 career losses are from his time with the Royals. His Royals teams had a combined record of 571-852 during his time with them. He's now only 23 strikeouts away from reaching 3,000. Darn Covid year ruined him from getting to 3,000 already.
He's a first ballot HoF guy, no way to argue he's not.
Hall of famer
It's not even debatable, his career WAR is higher than 49 current hall of fame starting pitchers, he has the 25th highest career WAR of all time for a starting pitcher.
Yes, 223 wins in this era. Dude was a workhorse at his peak.
Grienke is a legend no doubt about it
The answer to this question is "duh"
He was so fun to watch.yes hall of fame
zack will be a hall of famer
Wish they would've let this guy be a 2 way player. He could've of really done it
Why is this even a question? If he first ballot, No but he is most definitely a HOFer. Along with his pitching stats he also has 6 gold gloves, and 2 silver sluggers.
He's a no doubt hall of famer, average career WAR for starting pitchers in the hall of fame is 73, Greinke's career WAR is 77.5. He has the 25th highest career WAR of starting pitchers that have ever played the game. There are 49 pitchers in the hall of fame who have a lower career WAR than he does. Scherzer, Verlander and Kershaw are also no doubt hall of famers. With advanced analytics there shouldn't even be debates about who gets in anymore, they need to get rid of the ballot also, if a player has more than the average hall of fame WAR or top 1 percent for their position the should automatically be inducted.
Why aren't teams giving Zack Greinke a chance to pitch. Still better than half of the pitchers in baseball. Still out finesse hitters. Had a lot of bad luck last year. But what hurt him most was giving up hits with two outs which he never did before. Baseball exec's sign him. Still the best fielding pitcher in baseball by far. Best hitting pitcher by far. Give him a chance he goes five innings almost every outing. He is a total Hall of Famer.
He's a first ballot HoFer idk what the number say hes rhe GOAT bc of how he is
Is he retiring? Looks like he could push for 3,000 Ks.
He has been injured too much this year to reach 3,000 but if he comes back next season he is definetly within striking distance.
Greinke is HOF in my opinion!
Hall of Weirdness for sure.
Yes,he's a Hall of Famer,got practically no run support early in his career,should have at least 10 more wins!
No,he's not Greg Maddux,who is?
A Hall of Famer for sure!!!
Why does Alex Avila sound and look like a variant of Ethan Klineberg (H3H3).
There is not even a question Greinke is a hall of famer
Yes, he is. Definitely
Yes, that is all.
Verlander is a better pitcher than grienke.
Um yes? JV will be a first ballot hall of famer, so what’s your point? Greinke is still one of the best ever.
@@killeh6083 seriously
Okay
So was Maddux.
I would say no. He is right there with Tim Hudson and Mark Buehrle. I am not opposed to him getting in but just short in my opinion.
No way,definetly a Hall of Famer,got little run support and still won a CY Young!
He's leap years beyond them two...hope Hudson gets a run on ballott
If you have to ask if someone is a hall of famer. Odds are they aren't. I'd put Greinke in the hall of very good. Not hall of Fame.
I mean cmon, over 200+ wins, a career era below 3.50 and 125 k’s away from 3000 k’s is a hall of famer
So by your logic, if i said “Is Clayton kershaw or Aaron judge a hall of famer?” that means they most likely aren’t
@@mbdg6810 When you ask people if Kershaw is a hall of famer...We don't have to sit and discuss it. As for judge way too early to discuss. For he could have a career ending injury or totally fall apart like Bellinger.
@@splashingtides1401 A ERA under 3.50 😱 Again that's Good. But not elite. Hall should be for the best of the best.
i agree
Hall of Very Good
Hall of Fame!!!