Making a new coiled heater element for a heat treat oven or a kiln using Kenthal A1 wire
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 เม.ย. 2017
- In this video, we'll make some new coils for our heat treatment oven or kiln to replace some defective coil that just died of natural cause... You'll be able to see where we purchased the replacement wire, measured, coiled and tested it, the final results are going to be measured and evaluated after a successful repair.
The heater element is gonna be wound using some Kenthal A-1 from a spool, all the material and tools are available to general public to make your own repairs at reasonable cost.
CAUTION: This video shows how we did the work and you only perform those repairs if you have the necessary knowledge and proper competencies, we're not going to take responsibility for your actions.
Kenthal A-1 was purchased at:
TEMCo Industrial
48621 Warm Springs Blvd
Fremont, CA, USA
Phone:(877) 474-8209
Email:info@temcoindustrial.com
Thanks for viewing and please think about subscribing, liking and commenting...
Philippe's TH-cam Channel:
Phil's Projects
/ phildesjardins1
Pierre Beaudry
Email: wledpierre@gmail.com - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Hooray! Back in action!
Hi Brian,
Yep...!!! We needed it to go back for heat treating some parts needing to be tested...
That's a win... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Great job guys
Just stumbled upon this video today. The way it is presented is laid back and fun to watch. I felt like it is a DIY show on the television. You guys seem to have allot of fun working together and that made it really enjoyable to watch. I have just subscribed. Keep this fun and informative DIY videos going. Two thumbs up!
Hi Edmond, sure glad you like what you discovered, thanks for the kind words... Subscribers are the core of the support and well appreciated, thanks again, Pierre
These guys need a TV show I’d watch it all day
That would require a good production team, making those videos with 1 or 2 staff is fun but quite a task...
Many thanks to you for a nice comment, Pierre
Great repair Pierre and looks to be working like a charm!
Hi Ray,
That's a relief to be back in business on heat treating our parts... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Back to cooking parts is a good thing my friend!
Wow, almost seemed like you knew what you were doing! Good job!
Hi,
In a previous career, long time ago, I used to be in electronics repair for a broadcast company, so Ohms and electrons are still familiar to me...
This was a rewarding and easy fix...
Cheers, Pierre
Nice work boys!
+James Baumann
Thanks for comment, Pierre
Hey great fix guys , Thumbs up !!
Hi and thanks for visiting.... Cheers, Pierre
Very good results and it was a hot video. I know you guys were on fire to get this one published.
Hi Harold,
This was a Hot subject, we're happy to get back to heat treating metals... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Good job fellas! enjoyed this content.
Hi Scott,
Glad you enjoyed and thanks for comment, Pierre
'Ohm' is where the heart is.
The Montreal 'resistance' movement triumphs.
Now you have something else to add to the 'contact' list.
I wonder 'Watt's' next!
Great result - hot stuff :-) Having temp control is nice.
Hi Chris,
I guess that you'll give us access to your Ohm town and offer no Resistance Watts so ever, anyway we'll stay in Contact, if you have some problem controlling your bad Temper, then there is nothing I CANDU (brand of the Canadian nuclear reactors)
Cheers, Pierre
Ahhhh.... Chris is a poet in deep inside... ;)
Aren't we all touched by poetry...
I was looking North here from Texas for a Mushroom cloud when you plugged that in :)
No Smoke from here, good job fellas!
Hi Niel,
I sat on the oven for first fire, my ears are still letting some smoke out... lol
We're happy the way it turned out... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
nice job... feels good to fix things your self .. top of the day Pierre and Phil
Hi Scott,
I feel so bad having to throw away stuff or tools that can be fixed. Sometimes the parts are so costly when it needs to be purchased, that making them is a great solution...
Cheers, Pierre
well done!!
Hi Emma,
Thanks for visiting.... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Nice job and quick witts. Thank you for the lesson!
You're welcome!
We tried to make the process simple enough so it would be accessible to just about any individual with minimal tooling...
I realize I am pretty off topic but do anybody know a good site to stream new series online?
@Ulises Shane Flixportal :)
Thanks, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :D I appreciate it !
@Ulises Shane you are welcome :D
Takes me back 45 years winding coils for 3 Kw electric domestic air heaters used in apartment blocks these were banked to provide 3 stage heating controlled by room thermostat. I was working for a Canadian company at the time. Regards
Hi Edward,
My first diploma was in electronics, so, Ohms and electrons are still familiar to me, and, like you it brings me back in time a little, nice to occasionaly use the talent even if I'm not ready to plonge back in tha trade any more... ;)
Are you still in Canada and where about....?
Thanks for sharing, Pierre
I was never based in Canada but managed a company in UK owned by Bartaco Industries based in Niagara falls Ontario. The business was manufacture of gas, oil and electric furnaces exported to UK in those days under the commonwealth agreement, we started in 1959 and started manufacturing in UK 1960 and I continued within that trade until I retired 15 years ago. I still follow all you guys on You Tube.
Always fun to watch. Even with Phil. LOL
I guess I'd have to invent Philippe if he wasn't there, great to have a friend like him... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
HA HA .You are right good friends are hard to find.
I need to get some of that wire!
Hi, you can go on Temco's website and order from them, you can get a wide variety of products for different needs...
TEMCo Industrial
48621 Warm Springs Blvd
Fremont, CA, USA
Phone:(877) 474-8209
Email:info@temcoindustrial.com
Thanks for comment, Pierre
You guys are great! Only today my son and I were using a torch to harden 4140 and getting the temperature just right is difficult, at least for us. So what do I do? Go looking on how to build my own furnace and I discovered you! I'm impressed. Thanks for all your help. Peter.
Hi Peter,
Glad this could help you make better parts... ;)
This is one good step forward in making heat treatment much more predictible.
Thanks for viewing and for your comment, Pierre
I'm just making my own heat treat oven, watching the lack of earthing on mains appliances in the US makes me wince a bit! The heating element info is useful, I am looking into what diameter wire I should get, my one will be running on 240v, and I am aiming for about 10 amps which is as much as you can safely get out of a wall plug here, so about 2.4kW. If I can be smart I may make 2 separate elements and do a switched parallel/series setup allowing for slower ramp up.
In order to get the proper heat from the element you need to bring the temperature of this element near it's melting point, ( As an example, if you draw 12 amps at 120 volts from a gauge 18 wire, you'll get quite a maximum temperature from this arrangement, as if with the same conditions, you use some 16 gauge wire, you'll only get a much lower maximum temperature ) a good way to make ramping or decrease is to use a PID controller, this will allow you to set precisely the desired temperature and conditions. If you look it up, you'll find many types of controllers with more or less options, the cheaper Chinese ones with minimal features will selle for around $20 or less as some known name brands will reach prices in the hundreds of dollars.
If you search in my videos there is an inexpensive description of how to make a treatment oven using a used copper enamel kiln...
@@pierresgarage2687 Ah interesting, so thicker wire isn't necessarily better? I assume that is AWG gauge, so 0.0403 inch and 0.0508 diameter respectively?
I did get a PID controller, and I haven't had a chance to mess with it yet and see how advanced it is but it should do for the simple hardening and softening I want to do initially. I may have a go at programming an arduino to do it if I need complicated ramp settings.
My design is like many on youtube, an angle iron frame with fire bricks, and should have a space of about 7.5 x 9 x 4.5 inches. I will have a look at your videos for further inspiration thanks!
Broke my toaster this morning...you guys fix those too? ;-)
Mama nature's trying to help out with the snow but we won't be bringing in the big motorhomes for a bit... Thanks for the mention. :-)
Poking the electric bear with that metal doodad bhahaha!! Good vid
LOL...
Thanks, Pierre
Any particular reason you went with kanthal? I'm thinking of using nichrome with mine to produce a little more heat with a slightly lower ohm for the same size coil
Kenthal will go nearly 120 to 200deg.C hotter than nichrome wire, you may take a look at this site in the resistive wires sectiion:
temcoindustrial.com/
Hey, what isolating board you use to connect the coils behind? The one with the screws on. Thanks!!
You can search for " ceramic, alumina, and or, porcelain connectors for heater elements " on your search engine, you'll be presented with some choices that should perform the expected function for your application. You may have to adapt a little, though....
@@pierresgarage2687 Thank you so much for your prompt response and help.
On the approximately 1" x 3" thing that holds the 3 copper screws which the wires connect to; what type of material is that 1 x 3 thing made from?
Same question here ? I have some 1/2" micarta ? Wonder if that might work ?
You sure bring up the temp fast. I believe that breaks the mortar between bricks. Well maybe you only have 6 and it may not matter. I have larger furnace, many bricks. I go to 1800f in around 4 hours, and believe that is too fast.
Same goes for cooling, take a long time so do not cause cracks. I worked at place that had large furnaces, and they set them to take 24 hours to reach temp of around 1550f. The only time they needed to be brought up to temp is after they were down for repair. Otherwise they remained at temp always, holidays included.
Great video though for those who may want to repair, or even make one.
Hi, like you mention there is no cement between the bricks so the warming and cooling don't matter, this is one of the things likable about that little oven, since we only do occasional heat treatment it's no use to let that on all day, it's a different story with the bigger ceramics kiln, this is why I prefer to use the small one when ever possible.
Thanks for your comment and the kind words, Pierre
Well, you have gotten me interested in buying a little one like that, used, or making one. Some of the jobs I do would fit in there, and the time savings would be fantastic. Yagh, I do not really save time, the furnace controls it self by entering a program, but it would be nice to have a furnace ready real fast when I need it instead of having to wait 4 hours. I think I will look into getting one.
Look for copper enamel kilns you could get something for $100 or less in the used ones, controller also less than $100...
silly question; why do you have to wind the thread?
can't we simply wrap it as it is around the body to be heated?
I can't find the answer anywhere...
If I understand your question, you can wind the coil just around anything you want, just making it so the placement is practical and can resist mechanical stresses, vibrations and also the filament becomes quite flimsy when heated to it's maximum temperature...
Hope this is what you're talking about...
Great job. Was there a cover on the back? I assume the twisted leads still get really hot too.
Hi Barry,
There is a cover in the back, and, the wires get not glowing hot but a little toasty on the fingers... Ouch...!!!
We got some holding and clean-up in the back before putting the cover back in place.
So far it performs great, should last... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
I had the same question in mind as well but more along the line there is 120 volts running around the back side of that oven. I'm guessing it must have a protective cover.
No cover ===> HIGH risk of ZAPPING.... lol
Pierre's Garage Canadian buzz zapper?
great job on the repair even though all those not yet subtitles had me hoping for some fireworks.
Hi, I was impatient for the Ritalin to act on Philippe so he'd stop nagging me with the controller... lol
Thanks for watching and for comment, Pierre
BTW... While editing, I've added one of his request to install the controller so he'd look actually worse than it really was... ;)
Msr. Pierre, I was wondering about that terminal block on the bak of the kiln,
where the connections are made. Do you happen to know what type material that is??
Also, how would you add a ground? nice job. CJG
On older kilns it's probably Asbestos, you could find something made of ceramics, phenolic or similar material, as for the ground, all you need to do is to install a lung to the metal body and connect to the ground pin of your plug...
Hope it helps you and thanks for viewing, Pierre
Thank you , sir
There's a video by VegOilGuy that shows him making his own coil with a self-made jig. He shows how he made his jig as well. Take a look. I think you'll find it useful.
Simple and afficient, worth making one even for small runs... Thanks!
YW
How far are you guys from Ogdensburg, NY? I've been in the neighborhood quite a bit lately.
Hi Steve,
I've checked, I'm about 145 miles from Ogdsenberg, on the South Shore of Montreal, Philippe is around 100 miles on the West Island of Montreal...
If you feel like a visit just let us know and something can be arranged... ;)
Thanks for comment, Pierre
hi, great job, i don't understan what kind of wire tou had use sorry
This is a type of wire that has some resistance in order to produce heat when connected to the electrical source, you also get a few other types with different temps possibilities.
This link is giving a description of the tehcnical data of Kenthal wire:
www.kanthal.com/en/products/material-datasheets/strip/kanthal-a-1/
Hope this helps...
Thanks for watching, Pierre
Think a person could weld a electric furnace element for a mobile home? My guess is no and I need to buy a new one. Thanks.
Once the element was fully heated up and cooled the cristaline structure of the filament changes and become brittle, as far as I know there isn't any reliable way to weld or repair a burned or shorted element...
I cannot believe that you did not do this on the lathe using a die on the tool stock and gears set for threading!
What we did was so much easier and less time consuming than figuring out the math on a lathe, in our method the wire just lays naturally on the rod and it's only a matter of a short time to get it done...
Hello . is the diameter of the wire important?
Hi, yes, the ire size is important, it will determine the maximum current (amps) that it will be able to handle, like here the 18 gauge wire is delivering the requested temperature of about 1900 to 2000 deg. F by passing about 13 to 14 amps., more current will destroy the life of the wire or even destroy it, too low current like only 10 amps. and the temperature won't exceed maybe 1300 deg. F, or so...
Is it OK to use 22 gauge wire? I have a hard time finding 18 gauge in my area.
Hi, with smaller gauge wire 22 is quite smaller than 18, you won't be able to get as much current without burning the wire, then, not enough wattage to reach the desired maximum temperature.
If you're located in the USA try this: (If I'm right shipping is free )
temcoindustrial.com/shop/wire-cable-accessories/resistance-wire?alloy=184&wire_gauge_awg=154
Or outside the USA try their Amazon shop:
www.amazon.com/TEMCo-Kanthal-wire-Gauge-Resistance/dp/B06XMQJVQ1/ref=sr_1_sc_2?m=A2TLTYG8U2QKGY&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1536055925&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=kenthal++a1
also the eBay store:
www.ebay.com/itm/TEMCo-Kanthal-A1-wire-18-Gauge-1-lb-253-ft-Resistance-AWG-A-1-ga/281738248351?epid=1239828675&hash=item4198e8809f:g:H5YAAOSwVA5Z~LSs
Just make to look for the shipping rates depending in what part of the world you're located, hope you find what you need this way, just let me know how is goes for you, Pierre
just make 2 parralles , or 4 ,
i have made a oven of size 20 × 6 × 6 inches.. my power supply is 240v.. how much 18 gauge straight wire do i need to make coils from ??
Hi,
in most cases 18 gauge wire will result in a resistance of about .5 Ohm per foot (1.64 Ohm per meter), to get the proper heat in the oven you need to get about 13 to 14 amps of current to flow in the 18 gauge wire (Would be more for larger gauge wire) the calculation would be:
240 Volts / 14 Amps = 17 Ohms, if you have .5 Ohms per foot,
Then, you need 17 Ohms / per .5 Ohms per foot = 34 feet total before coiling.
Note that you may want to get the specs of the actual wire you're using, some brands could vary in resistance and in capacity to carry the current, one method is to use a reliable Ohm-meter and measure the resistance needed once you're near the required lenght. Don't forget to provide enough lenght to make the double twist in the ends in order to make the connections to th utility.
Hope this helps you, just let me know if you need more help... ;)
(I may need a little more time than usual to get back to you since my Dad just passed away a few days ago)
Regards,
Pierre
Pierre's Garage 1 coil of 34 feet wire can do or what if i want to make 2 coils ?????
You need to keep the same current and the same power with 18 gauge wire, or to make 2 smaller coils you''ll get to make shorter wires but you'll need to up to 20 gauge wire, I would have to find out the nominal current needed to get the desired temp. I highly suggest you stick to 18 gauge wire. This combination will give you about 3300watts, by using 20 gauge wire you would get less power since the nominal current is quite less, probably around 8 to 10 amps max, for a power from 2000 to 2400watts.
Hope this is what you were asking for, Pierre
That terminal block was getting dangerously close to the metal framework and an earth connection is essential for safety on metal housed appliances.
Hi Rob,
We tested it wothout dressing the back properly, off camera, everything was dressed up and secured as the cover was also put back in place... ;)
Thanks for comment, Pierre
Good to hear Pierre but please for your own safety Earth the metal framework.
Good suggestion... Thanks.
Hey guys, why didn't you use the lathe to wind the wire coils like winding springs? It would have been easier on your fingers and more uniform.
Hi Roy,
Since we wanted to also demonstrate that it 's possible to make the elements very simply in order to allow just about anyone to make those, we purposely chose to use a simple hand drill, my uneducated estimate is that 99.9% people own or have access to a hand drill and maybe 1% own a lathe... And the result obtained with the drill is more than adequate for this job... ;)
Thanks for watching and for your comment, Pierre
i just made some dog point machine screws from bolts, using a drill, ( i have no lathe) they do fit !
It's surprising to see what some people can do with just the bare minimum... ;)
They use their creativity to get something done.
?what heat go to?
You should be able to reach about 1050 deg C (About 1900 deg. F )
All depends on the type of oven, insulation, size, etc
If you allow for a little more current in the wire, you could get hotter temp, but, be careful not to go above 1200 C ( 2200 F ) or you may greatly reduce the life of the element or even run the risk of melting it.
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
hello. i have Kanthal A1 18 gauge wire. i making kiln. but i have problem. our electric is 220V. i need about 1100-1300c degree. how many meter wire i need? and wire diameter? PLS
Hi,
Not certain on how big your oven will be, but Kenthal A1 18 gauge will support about 10 or 11 Amps, the resistance per meter is 1.7 Ohm, so, if your voltage source is 220 Volts in order to achieve 11 Amps you'll need 6.1 meter of wire to get this current (Do not go shorter...), the resulting Wattage will be 2400 Watts, this is the minimum possible with your wire size and available voltage, make certain your oven size will be appropriate, if you need a bigger oven you can install more than one similar element in parallel.
Hope this helps you, Pierre
Sorry I just made a mistake in my calculation of the length it is NOT 6.1 meters but 12.2 meters, just write back to me to make sure you got the correction...
Pierre's Garage my ovem is small. inside size is 36x11x11.5 cm. i need 1100-1300c degree. before i made it but my kanthal failed
Make sure you read my second comment about correcting the length or the wire... 12.2 meters at 220 volts
The size you mention is very small for 2400watts, is there a way to lower the voltage or dim it somehow?
Then you could make coils for lower power like half the power.
Do you have a control for the maximum temperature for the oven to reach?
Pierre's Garage i have Digil thermometer thermocouple. what do think your own advise. 220v, 1100-1300c degree? , oven size? wire long?
goodddddddddddd goodddddddddddddddddd.
😉😎👍
how close do you and philip live to each other (im a new viewer, so forgive if everyone already knows)
Hi, no wrong being a new viewer and asking questions... ;)
We live about an hour apart, Philippe lives in the Western End of the Island of Montreal and I live on the South Shore area...
Cheers, Pierre
Resistor i
In Place
Not shure I understand your statement... Could you be more precise.
Hi you two !
What a nice video ... and a new project evolved !
... I'm gonna change my furnace from propane:
kelds.weebly.com/smelteovn.html
to electric power - I have the exact same controller as you have - I''m just using the "half" of it for my temp-meter:
kelds.weebly.com/temperaturmaringler.html
I start looking for that wire here in EU - hope I find it !
Thx for sharing lifew in the cage !
Hi Keld,
Nice to have you around for a visit like always, hope you're doing good... ;)
Electric is somehow cleaner and more silent, you need to be careful not to splash metal on the elements or they'll blow out...
You can expect temperatures up to about max. 1250 C this is enough even for brass... ;)
I also have a much bigger kiln, but, I try to get away with the small one since it's so much easier to handle.
The monkeys are hard at work, they never quit... lol
Cheers, Pierre
You have a 120V in Canadia??? Here I was thinking you lectrics for grown ups , like in Europe...
Who knew!?
Paddy
Here houses are fed with 240 volts single phased with a neutral in the center of that phase, on each side there is 120 volts that is wired for general use around most circuits around the house, bigger appliances are wired with 240 volts, electric stove, clothe dryer, hot water heater, electric furnace and/or heat pump, some people with shops located in residential areas will feed their shop with a few 240 volts circuits for compressor, welders and a few other tools with high current usage...
Just to say that I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE LIKE IN EUROPE 3 phases in the shop at least... Sigh...!!!
Thanks for your comment, Pierre