It’s been six or seven years since I fully stopped attending meetings, but honestly I understand living day to day and accepting my death at ‘armageddon’. I had just told myself that I’d rather die in a world of things that make me happy, than suffer as a Jehovah’s Witness for whatever years remained only to CONTINUE suffering as a JW in the ‘paradise’. It’s fucked up.
Their so called paradise is not a happy place, and their god is not a benevolent one. I've also spent a fair amount of time fantasizing about armageddon. I just thought I would want to ask god and his cronies a bunch of poignant questions, if it ever came to it. Of course I don't fear armageddon anymore, we humans are very capable of ushering in the end of civilization as is, no divine intervention required, but I'd prefer us humans rather took responsibility and ownership of the problem, instead of just believing in an invisible and tyrannical sky wizard to magically appear and fix everything.
@@NIL0S it does sort of sound like the ‘easier way out’ doesn’t it? And that in itself becomes a point towards their agenda. “Why worry yourself with the daily anxieties that the world worries about, like death and illness and disease? Instead believe in two polar opposite, invisible forces that can be accountable for every little thing that happens to you.” Ignorance really is bliss for some.
@@valkyrie__3630 Aye, "It's gotta be Satan" whenever something bad happens. "It's the hand of Jehova" whenever something good occurs. What about "It's human to make mistakes"? Or, "Sometimes sh*t just happens"? Life's precious *precisely* because it's finite. There are no do-overs, no washing of guilt through death or faith. People around us are precious because they won't be there forever. Forgiveness becomes a necessity, tolerance paramount. How can you show real empathy if none of this is real, and just an antechamber to the forever-after? I'd rather live my life now, truly awake, eyes wide open.
Read Matthew 18:21-35 It's better to forgive your self and move on then to say I'm going die at Armageddon so so be it! We can call it Armageddon' judgement day whatever ' the system will conclude but no matter how wrong a religion is or how hard we fall. Giving up is not the final answer. Do your best.
It’s so nice to have found a community to discuss these things with, after years of having to keep quiet to spare the Witnesses because I still felt they were right. Y’all are amazing.
That is a really important point you have made about them being able to penalise 2 consenting adults for engaging in sex, but sweep under the carpet all the child sexual abuse. Such hypocrites!
It's awful that the parents blamed her for being assaulted. Also, the parents' nasty statement that "you put yourself in the situation" is a lie. If she had been a boy and gone to the same party and been attacked the same way, would the parents have said he had it coming? No one deserves assault.
Sometimes I feel like misogynists treat women like they are a tasty piece of meat. Our sole presence is alluring, by just standing somewhere we are being a temptation to men. Ive found it SO taxing and emotionally draining to be surrounded of people who think like that.
@@theyoutubeanalyst3731 it’s even worse when you’re a 12 year old that developed early- many, *many* grown men have no qualms about sexually harassing a literal child.
When my daughter was starting to go out, she and her friends (including the boys) got „THE TALK“ about safety and looking after another. Later some parents of boys complained that I frightened their boys for nothing! After all, these things don’t happen to boys!
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 My holier-than-thou father choked me when I told him "f@ck you" in a heated moment. My mother and sister witnessed this incident. They saw the handprints on my neck. He never apologized bc he never, ever apologized to his kids, but probably apologized to his colleagues in the kh! He's dead now! F@ck you, dad
This video was sent to me by my cousin asking me if I knew this young woman. I knew her when she was maybe 2 or 3. I knew her parents before leaving the organization. If I’m 100% honest it’s very triggering. We were in the same congregation when I was a teen. Very similar story with me and I have so much to say, I don’t know where to start. My heart goes out to her. I feel and experienced much of the same thing. Amazed by your strength and bravery for telling your story, Cherie. So glad you’re awake!
Oh my goodness! You know me from way back then? I'd love to reconnect! I'm so sorry we have similar stories but I'm so happy to see you awake and free as well. Please feel free to find me on Facebook so we can connect 🥰
I mean, the structure of the JW belief system specifically is designed to do this. “Never stop running the race” keeps people too distracted with mundane cult activities and they cannot wake up and deprogram themselves. Cults do this by design.
@@jrojala I was especially thinking about youth and the teen age years. When your identity is wrapped around beliefs and only salvation if you adhere to specific behaviors. Rape was traumatic and the feedback is to blame oneself. I was not brought up a witness but Baptist. There was guilt or double for instance, over buying playing cards when fairly young. I thought they were taboo. Later with the difficulties in the teen age years, I took up smoking because it was representative of how I felt about myself. Worthless and no good. Smoking was something one did not do as I was growing up- it was wrong. What you mentioned is also true but the issues are greatly compounded during youth- especially those that are more vulnerable. She was a raped victim and associated with individuals that were considered part of the world or satan’s system.
That is me today. Even though I’m out and facing what I was. I feel like a failure even though I know what I said would not have made a difference to me while I was under control.
@@LOH__ a suggestion by another you tuber is to make a list of all of your positive qualities or qualities you liked or are aware of. ZPlace it on the refrigerator and go over it occasionally. There probably other ideas that are helpful.
@NonCoinCollector she's suffered a lifetime of abuse and brainwashing, obviously still on a journey towards some level of healing, I'm sure her therapist is helping her with the habit of referring to that cult as "the truth". It's not Lloyd's place to correct her. And not our place to criticize her for that use of terminology. She is working on changing. That should be good enough.
@NonCoinCollector I'm sad to hear about what happened with your dad. The leaders within Jehovah's witnesses cult are an evil bunch (IMO). It's taken me many years to have some normalcy in my life and at times, I still feel like I'm failing. I was born into it, dissociated when I was mid 20's, and still working on healing. I hope there will be some kind of karmic justice for the twisted leaders in that group. They've deeply hurt so many.
@NonCoinCollector and TBH, hearing people say "the truth" makes me cringe. Ugh. I hate it. But like I said, she's still working through her healing journey. That brainwashing will be with her for a long time, unfortunately 😥
Blaming victim...despicable! The man that killed my mother was put on trial by the State; his defending attorney kept blaming my mother with that "the woman in the little white car" terminology; as if to say if she hadn't been there in the wrong place at the wrong time he would not have run over her and killed her! Her fault!
@@kathyheitchue2022 It happens to boys and men too, though I wont doubt it happens to females 10 to 1. A boy who was just turning 12 and had some very slight flamboyant mannerisms gets diddled by another adult in the congregation and the boy gets blamed for acting on homosexual impulses. The adult makes up some story that he was innocent and the boy (who was baptized at 9) was the initiator....... I have never heard of something so disgusting in my life. Thankfully that kid came out of it and is doing well given the situation.
WOW, incredible, unbelievable, your story Cherie has exposed the Hipocracy behind this cult and how it divides and destroys families. You're a very powerful and strong woman Cherie, you have overcome some insane obsticles and I hope that you and your daughter have a wonderful and beautiful life outside of this cult. I'll take your story to heart Cherie and I wish you the best in life, and enjoy many beautiful blessings beyond this cult. I was in this organization for 38 years of my life, I'm now POMO, I've been out for over three years already and I'm never going back EVER. Thanks for telling your story Cherie , and Lloyd thank you for another wonderful interview, about someone who was born into the witnesses and left this religion later on in their lives, just like me. Keep the interviews coming Lloyd, I love them.
This is what underpins the 'love' of the Witnesses. I will never understand this other than to think of them as the most fearful and scared, insecure organisation I've ever known. They're so scared.
OMG! their double standard are outrageous. Serve it up as it suites them. 2 witness rull out the door when pore helpless babies are involved, sickening.!
@@NIL0S jws say it so confidently though that I have even heard “worldly” people refer to it as “the truth” without even thinking because they heard it from relatives or friends. Brainwashing is so simple and so effective.
Your story touch me, what you allowed to happen to you and what you felt you needed to endure to be "GOOD" So happy your now able to let that believe go and start healing. Your knowing the best gift you can give your daughter is the freedom to be herself with out guilt.
Teenage rebellion is a necessary stage of development for young people to separate themselves from their parental units. Of course, there is a healthy type of rebellion and an unhealthy way.
Ah that is so amazing that Susan's story helped Cherie 🥰 I love knowing that your work is making such a difference Lloyd, well done everyone keep sharing the TRUTH
DO NOT ever allow your daughter to go over to your parents' house again. It sounds like your father cannot get over his cognitive dissonance; he's holding on with all his might to the cult.
I would allow my daughter to see her grand parents with the strict rule of "No Cult Indoctrination" Just be her grandparents and give her love. I was never a JWs but if a family member including my parents tried to indoctrinate my child I would sit them down in private and commence to destroying their cult in the most loving way possible.
@@anonymousprofessor8866 A JWs main focus is to indoctrinate, even the grandparent. I would not allow grandchildren to visit JW relatives without the parents or supervision. If it involves shunning the parents on top of that, allowing the visits shows the child that it's ok to allow disrespect, inconsiderate behavior, and division of the family. Definitely no.
@@anonymousprofessor8866 I’m going to have to tell you that you need to have been a JW to understand that a child even an adult one will never feel comfortable in their grand parents company when they are literally bombarded with trying to guilt and instil fear in them .. along with a sense of disappointment to the gparents.. it’s a relationship that has no future and it’s soil destroying .. I know it.. my adult children have been through it .. I have also experienced the violence that came with messing up (leaving my song book at home from a meeting at 16 years of age) .. not worthy of having your head smashed into a brick wall repeatedly until your mother’s screaming that she will call the police if he doesn’t stop.. makes the situation diffuse .. it’s hard to convey the rage that some parents feel at their children and grandchildren not making them “look good” .. 😰
@@VictoriaOz My heart goes out to you and the trauma you've experience in that satanic wicked cult. Blessings to you! Currently I am going back and forth with a troll who claims to be a JWs. The level of brainwashing is off the charts with this person. There is absolutely No critical thinking with this person and I wonder are JWs mentally disabled? When I agreed to do Bible Studies with JWs they never ever answered any of my critical thinking questions which was a huge red flag!!! All cults should be banned because they are not a religion and ultimately hurt children and families. There has never been a cult in the history of humanity that has not hurt children. I believe once an organization has been proven to be guilty of causing harm to children they need to be banned!!! Period!!!
I did not expect to come out of this interview wanting to cry. Pimo attempting to leave for the sake of my toddlers and it brought back so many memories of my teen years. My now elder father was physically abusive with me several times over my rebelliousness. To the point where I went to school the next day with bruises so badly I was walking with a limp and struggling to sit down at my desk. The belt and I became very familiar with each other that year. One day in the future I would love to shine light on all of the abuse I endured from both of my seemingly perfect Christian parents. I feel like it has to be very commonly hidden along with the SA within the organization. At one time I was convinced if I told on him he would lose his privileges. Now I realize it probably wouldn’t have even mattered nor been reported.
I hope one day I will be lucky to have conversations with you it's like a therapy I been out over 10 years but I just became free mentally like 2 months ago when I found your page
There's one special mail you need to write to in order to be considered to be interviewed by Lloyd! I don't quite remember what that is, but I think it involves his producer 🤔
My parents know my rules. If you want contact with me or my children there can be no talk of their religion. I've been out for more than 30 years and they have done pretty well. When they have brought it up I have put them in their place very quickly and tell them how they're beliefs are wrong. Needless to say they rarely slip up.
Guys tomorrow is gonna be awkward. In lieu of prayers (since Im a disfellowshipped atheist) maybe share a joke or a similar experience. I’m filling in tomorrow as a pediatric home health nurse for a JW family for their baby just home from the hospital. I haven’t been around witnesses since my judicial committee. My company made the huge mistake of telling them I AM a witness, because they thought that would help talk me up considering I understand the blood issue etc. I let the company know that is could be super awkward for the family and me, and not to share that I WAS a witness with anyone else. Man I feel better just sharing this with you guys. It’s been eating at me ALL DAY. Fingers crossed, good vibes and good luck whatever crap you want to send my way… as long as it’s atheist. Hahaha. Edit: The end of the shift I had a 40 minute conversation with the elder dad. I am now at home sobbing. I’ll comment on Lloyd’s next video or something. While I got across many good points. I’m just having to look at what I used to be in the mirror for the first time, has left me incredibly sad and angry at myself. It was like talking to my very recent self. I am grateful I have Resources to remind me that I was in a mind control cult. At the start of the shift I felt myself immediately go back to a submissive fearful state and just had to tell this elder whatever he asked me. But at the end of the shift even though I felt like I shared what makes me now an apostate, it just brings up huge amounts of self-loathing.
Just be professional. Be yourself. I'm sure you've seen a lot in your job, this probably won't even remotely be the worst *laughs knowingly* But your company needs to get their privacy policies together.
Oh man I do not envy you. Your company probably doesn’t think “cult” when they hear JWs, yet they should considering they prefer people die rather than get blood transfusions. Focus on the child & you’ll be just fine I think. Thanks for being such a professional, even when put in such an awkward & uncomfortable situation. You rock!
That’s awful that your company did that. I would think there would be some kind of law that you’re not supposed to divulge any personal information about someone when they go out on a job. I’m an atheist too so I don’t know how funny I am but I am going to keep good thoughts for you today.🙋🏻♀️
Thank you Cherie .. so very brave .. and your voice resonated with me so much .. you are a remarkable woman and you have many years ahead of you to enjoy the best things in life free from fear obligation and guilt... I wish you so much happiness for your future and the future of your daughter. Thank you for sharing your story 😌
Thank you for your incredibly kind words, Victoria. I hate to hear that you've also gone through a lot but I hope you made it through. Freedom is worth it! 🥰
I love how she described her waking up moment on her back yard. ❤️I think described many of us when she said she knew something was wrong and is not until everything click than she finally open her eyes and realize she is in a cult. Thanks for this interview.
The problem with JWs, and a lot of other religions in general, is that they tend to feel completely self-righteous in anything that they say or do, no matter how badly they are missing the mark. I still talk with my parents, even if I have walked away from their cult a long time ago (never baptized, luckily). My father is a huge narcissist and alcoholic. It never ceases to amaze how easy it is for him to play the holy man and be indignant whenever I point out what a crappy childhood I've had (well, the teenage years and my early twenties for sure) thanks to their fundamentalist beliefs and attempts at indoctrinating me. I'm then somehow made out to be the bad and misguided person that failed, not them. They say that I'm just bitter and angry, and to a large extent they are right. We as cult survivors have every right to be, as we've had decades of our lives stolen, possibly some of the most formative and important ones, too.
I have nothing to add. I just wanted to send you some atheistic love and best wishes. These stories always hit close to my heart, even though I was never a member. Good luck with the rest of your life, friend.
The empathy is much appreciated. I'm doing fine now in my life, so no worries. It's just cathartic to speak about it. It's probably a thing people carry with them for the rest of their lives. Thanks for understanding.
I know what you mean, I had my youth stolen from me too, and my mom doesn't talk to me anymore because I'm not in the religion. But you know what I feel sorry for her that she aloud herself to be so controlled by this cult. I need to move on and focus on the positive, I can be thankful that at least she fed me and gave me a home even if it wasn't a loving one. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't even be here and I wouldn't have been able to eventually wake up.
Obviously, one of the things that cults try to control is a person's sexuality (along with their thoughts, information, emotions); it goes to the core of who we are. People can be easily manipulated and shamed if who they have sex with and how and why is controlled by the cult.
You are a very brave, honest and down-to-earth lady, Cherie :) How you managed to refrain from striking back at your dad is amazing, and he's lucky you did refrain! I wouldn't let my kids near someone as violent and abusive as that. Especially with the indoctrination as well; it seems as if the reason why they want to see your daughter is so they can indoctrinate her, not because she's their own flesh and blood. It doesn't matter how much you ask them, nor how much they agree, to stopping talking religion with her, they will continue to do it. They will. Search your feelings, you know it to be true :) Keep your young lady away from them, unless you are 100% there to supervise. They need to learn that their behaviour is neither normal nor acceptable.
Really great interview Cherie. Very emotional and raw. Glad to hear you have come out of this on the better side and sorry to hear the things you had to go through.
Sadly Cherie needs to look at her parents the same way adult children of addicts have to look at their parents. She can love her parents, but because they are involved in a cult they're unable to be parents or grandparents.
Lloyd, all your videos are worthy in their own right but man, your conversations with exJW women are the absolute creme de la creme of your work and your conversation with Cherie is quite simply the pinnacle of your work to date. This is instructive on so very many levels. It is a powerful window into women’s experience of this archly patriarchal organization: Men lording it over women and children, seeing everything from the male-rulers frame of reference, oblivious and/or uncaring of the impact of their patriarchal dictates on women. You and Cherie have said it well: Judicial committees in which “immorality” is the hot topic are ruthlessly male-oriented in which often very young baptised women (some still children!) feel violated and further abused. That these men have little, if any awareness of their dreadful impact on women is a powerful indicator of how totally immersed in their patriarchy they are. Women who go through the judicial-committee mill often end up being blamed - including for the disgusting things men have done to them. This video will be so helpful to so many people - including of course males - and help them see the arrogant men pulling strings behind the illusory curtain. Excellent, excellent work!
Thank you so much for your comment! 🥰 I'm absolutely committed to helping not just other exjw's but especially the women who leave this horrible and demeaning cult!
Don't hold your breath Cherie waiting for any witness to call out of concern! After many decades in that organization ... not one jw gave me a call! Strangely those cult members don't even ask WHY we leave! Congratulations on your final escape, all the best to you~
My soon-to-be-ex has had a meltdown for years because I, and our three children, have become everything the Watchtower says we shouldn't be: atheists, anti-JWs, one is non-binary, one is in the military, I didn't quit the military, and we've had college education of course... and we all oppose this religion more than any other because of the suffering it has brought us.
I relate sooo much to your story! It is so similar to my own. I left as a teenager and then went back in my early 20s for about 4 years because I was a single mom and my family told me they would support me if I came back to the JWs. I relate to that constantly being told I was bad and a problem and like my family was always just waiting for me to screw up again. I appreciate so much your courage telling your story. I feel less alone knowing there is someone out there with a similar story.
I was never baptised, luckily, anyway, i like a week ago, asked my old jw friend how is he doing, he didnt even answer well, and then tried to brainwash me to come back to jw, it was so weird…
I also have a childhood friend that completely cut me out of his life once I made it clear that I was not interested in the religeous parts of our conversations. Find better friends... It's not gonna be hard, considering what we are comparing to.
I lived a similar physical assault from my jw wife only because I didn't want to post a comment about a picture she shared in a family group. I went to the police. I can't understand how they speak so very kindly to people outside and mistreat their supposed loved ones.
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 Thanks Cherie I'm in therapy for overcoming from this bad experience, nevertheless, my psi is not expert in cults, so, she doesn't understand how dangerous JW can be
@Mike Whites My husband suspected he once worked with a man being assaulted by his wife. He wore long sleeved shirts in the summer. It just seemed like that was happening to him.Thank God you got the police involved and their is a record of the assault! Men get assaulted by their female partners just like women are assaulted by their partners. I hope your life is better now.
@@R.Oates7902 Thanks a lot for your comments. It's not easy to go to the police to denounce to your partner for so many years, but it's necessary to leave a record of this kind of violence. What it's incredible to me is the fact that the indoctrination of the Watchtower simply doesn't work on moments like this, they are only ready to block themselves when there's evidence against the organization, there's when it works perfectly.
When she said "do over" daughter I felt that. I was my grandparents "do over" daughter to the point some people thought I was their actual daughter when we went to other kingdom halls.
Love the overhead cam shots! The bunker looks very spacious! Love this interview, I could relate to being physically out but still holding onto indoctrination for years! It's good to have theses resources like your channel thank you Lloyd for your hard work!
Thank you for commenting, Virginia! Good luck on your continued journey. I love you name... it was my grandmother's name and is my daughter's middle name as well.
I can relate. If I didn’t put myself in that situation it wouldn’t have happened. I blamed myself for so long and sometimes still do. The amount of therapy I need man lol
I had a mother who was a rabid jw. I realized early that she would never respect my boundaries, so I had to patrol them. We never left the children alone with her. When she visited, the watchtowers etc had to stay in her car. She would still test the limits of the boundaries. One occasion she was staying with us because their circuit assembly location was close to us. These assemblies were always at the same time as one of the children’s birthdays. When the table was set for the kid’s’ birthday party, which she offered to lay, I noticed that all of the napkins were folded so the birthday message was inside and only the plain area was visible. Petty and ridiculous but what do you expect from a cult member 🤷🏻♂️
I really appreciated Lloyd's interview with Cherie Clark-Spitzer. I'm so sorry to hear about how she was sexually assaulted at a party and her one female "friend" acted like it was no big deal. That detail really upset me. No, rape is a big deal and it can never be consensual. I did like how she talked about doing a bit of storm spotting for her local weather TV network channel when she lived in Hawaii. I've always thought it would be interesting to be a storm chaser and chase tornadoes in particular, but I don't think meteorological societies really fund that kind of work because it is so very, very dangerous. In fact, some years ago, three storm chasers with years worth of experience were killed while pursing an F-5 twister. I've also had a bit of fear of tornadoes because when my parents and I would visit and stay overnight or for a few days, maybe even a week with some of our relatives in Southern States -- I was always worried about a storm outbreak developing. Some of my relatives have experienced first-hand what it is like to be in these storms. My JW great-grandparents told me stories about what happened during the Tri-State Tornado of 1925, the deadliest tornadic storm in American history, when I was a very young child. Now, my great-grandparents and my JW grandparents were not directly involved with the Tri-State Tornado of 1925, but they remembered when it happened. It was an awful tragedy, and not very many people in the United States, and people living in other countries probably less so, have ever even heard of it -- which is why it is sometimes referred to as "the forgotten storm." I am glad that while working in marketing in the healthcare industry that Cherie was able to find another job after she was fired. The COVID-19 pandemic has been so hard on nearly everyone in one way or another. No doubt this pandemic's global impact will be debated by historians for years to come. It truly frightens me with all this anti-vaccine propaganda going around. I'm disgusted that Cherie was practically blamed for being raped by her JW Elders. Elders often don't treat victims of child sexual abuse any better either. A few years back, Lloyd, commented about a video that gained a bit of popularity on TH-cam of an ex-JW young lady who knew at least three other young women who were sexually assaulted when they were still JWs, and not one of them received any support from their religious community. These women found support and comfort amongst people outside of the Organization, you know, the "worldly" people who only care about "sinning" and other stuff. The part of Cherie's story when she talks about the responses to the abuse she endured at the hands of her attacker, man, that story got me so heated.
Thank you Chérie for sharing your story…I can relate. Similarly to you Steven Hassan’s BITE model put meaning into JW indoctrination, as well as Bonnie Zieman’s « EXiting the JW Cult - A Healing Handbook » I had the same reaction as you!! By the way, your name in French means « cherished » it’s used as a term of endearment. Believe this! 💜♥️
It is refreshing to hear from someone whose path to awakening began with being POMI! I sometimes feel sheepish hearing all the interviews of those who woke up while in the org and then left... the experience of being POMI is one that needs to be shared more. I think there are so, so many that still are and need our help.
@@deenadamico2673 I agree, when I first made the realization I was POMI for a long ass time, I felt super ashamed (I've since reprocessed and no longer feel this way) especially because it seemed the sentiment from other exJWs was that POMIs were like, this obnoxious group of outliers that nobody wanted to deal with. But being POMI doesn't necessarily mean that you believe it's definitely the one true religion, it can simply mean you haven't realized that it is in fact a cult, you haven't reframed your past with the proper perspective and you're still lost thinking that maybe there was just something wrong with you. Not realizing you were abused is a horrible place to be and there's still at least some stigmatization toward POMIs, I think, and I'd love to see that change.
Just wanted to add: Even if being POMI *does* mean you thought 100% it's the one true religion, and definitely there was something wrong with *you*, that still shouldn't be seen as some sort of individual shortcoming. Not being able to recognize that you're being abused isn't something to be ashamed of.
I will always love a good pandemic wake up story b/c I share in that experience. When she got chocked up as she expressed how grateful she was to find Lloyd's channel at the right time of distress and confusion, I feel the same way every time I reflect on my shocking moment of awakening. Great points here like making every effort to get rid of WT labels. You do not have to confess or always tell the truth to company men. Just refuse to reply, play the word game or just lie like the fake religious leaders. And yes, really research and work on yourself before submitting a reinstatement b/c things are not working out for you in the world.
Fantastic interview the female perspective of most major religious groups is fascinating There’s literally no incentive for most woman to be apart of most religions This is like generations of indoctrination on her part definitely not mad at her calling it truth but clearly it’s triggering for some It’s terrible that she didn’t get to live her life fully until she became an adult but I love her spirit of standing up and keeping it moving and not passing the bs to her daughter 😉
Thank you Big Sr. 😊 honestly the word slip was just simply nerves and 30 years of indoctrination. I certainly didn't mean it as a fact. Lol! Thank you for your encouragement and kind words. I feel like I'm 35 years late to having my own life but cheers to the next 35 and yes most importantly my daughter will have a REAL life!
I can't say I'm a young women with a baby on the way, however I really could relate to one aspect of this story. That is, how this organization makes you feel. When I was a teenager I wanted to hang out with my friends and go skateboarding and this was not what my fully indoctrinated mom wanted for me. Because of this I was constantly made to feel there was something wrong with me and that I wasn't good enough. Because of that I just got worse until I left home. Looking back I just think it's shameful how the religion treats people, they should never be aloud to call themselves a loving organization, they are anything but. And thanks to Cherie for sharing her story!
Thank you for sharing as well. It floors me as well and one thing that never ever sat right with me from even a young age.... this "religion" of love and this is how they treat people!?! So hypocritical! They in no way are a true religion... they're just like all the other man made up crap that's out there.
I had a friend who was a jw and i didnt know they werent worldly ppl until later on and when i saw her dad he gave a hateful stare but then later she left and became a pagan. Then a former manager of mine is a jw and i was the only nonwhite person and he questioned me about taking gloves from work and a few other things so i eventually quit cause i wasnt even allowed to drink coffee cause he assumed it would counteract with my meds which i in turn asked my doctor he said no it wouldnt. So then i just left cause i couldnt take it anymore
Omg, "set up for failure" hit me so hard. I was on my own at 15. I've been working since I was 10. The money I earned while working in their restaurant went to my care; clothes, school supplies, food. I had no preparation for life. My college money was taken for my "care" in highschool. It's only now at 41 that I'm feeling I can even fully recognize the abuse.
Your story is so much like mine. I was baptized at 18 years old. I was publicly reproved at 17 for being raped. The guy was was a 21 year and baptized. He was disfellowshipped. Out of guilt I got baptized when I was 18
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 thanks. I got out okay though. I’m inactive and have been since 1994. I do what I want and no one in my family argue with me. My kids always were always apart of my family’s lives. I just always told them they were in a cult and didn’t know it. My kids love them but feel sorry for them.
We enjoyed this interview immensely. What a smart lady that presents her thoughts so well. Maybe her parents will wake up someday. Her father made a terrible mistake by assaulting her, didn't he? Sounds like it might have been her calling the religion a "cult" that was the trigger. Jay-dubs get very defensive when the term "cult" is used about them - I think because they're scared to death of admitting that it is not only true, in fact, there is no term more fitting for the group. Regardless of what the trigger was, he needs to be held accountable for his actions and seek professional help for his mental health problems, real help, from someone other than the uneducated jay-dub elders.
I can pinpoint the actual moment I woke up from a lifetime of indoctrination 4 years ago. It was like you Cherie, reading Steven Hassan's BITE model 🙏 Only then did I allow myself to research the religion my parents had chosen for me, the result being it was like a game of Jenga, it all came crashing down at breathtaking speed! Best wishes from the UK enjoy all the firsts xx
My family is the same way. They are not model witnesses at all yet vehemently defend the org as if they were. I think it's guilt driven, they know they don't live up fully to the JW standards so lashing out and defending the org is there way of "making up" for that.
~if thats all you know thats what your constantly straving for~ dont look at the man behind the curtain.. i felt this way for so long....never baptized thank my lucky stars.but i was born in studied with different elders on and off my whole life totally believed it was the truth i just wasnt getting it....so glad i found Lloyd and the truth hurts, falling tower literally saved me from this toxic org.
I’m in the process of FINALLY disfellowshipping myself, and I was wondering if I was the only one who’s gone through this. I should have known!!! I think we all go through it 🤷🏼♀️ I had to hit my absolute rock bottoms to get to this point, but it’s definitely been worth it. 39 years of HEAVY indoctrination doesn’t just ‘fall away’. It’s a process…
It and other phrases take years to stop. Its so ingrained and takes a long time. I cringe at "Oh my God" and "our prayers blah blah". The JW only words are by design, it reinforces the doctrine. The GB and the followers spend more time learning control techniques than coming p with "new light" these days.
the entire thing makes me want to punch a wall too. You are not alone LOH. She is an amazing woman and I am so lucky to have her in my life and I have been her rock.
we were taught to fight back to a rape; i was in a robbery situation when i was young and the person with the gun told me to lie down and the only thing that went thru my mind was to resist, so i ran and luckily i lived through it
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 I stayed off base in Aiea. I was single, a SSG, didn't want to live close enough for a "hey you" detail and got AT&T because they had the worst cell service. Was a medic in the 57th MP, under the 8th MP Brigade and while I had great Soldiers, that was an odd unit. My local company.was pretty good, the Brigade wasn't. I went from 2 deployments with a medical unit and then 2 deployments with Infantry, to the MPs. After coming from Infantry, going to the MPs felt at first like I worked for the enemy.
Fantastic point Lloyd on the two witnesses rule for children but not for adults again more proof of how twisted this religion is and the complete and utter hypocrisy!
I don't know if anyone else had this issue, but I kept checking out at the persistent euphemisms. "Making bad choices" doesn't share the story, especially if the person is still steeped in the cult lingo. Maybe I'd agree that there were a lot of bad choices in there, maybe I wouldn't. But I can't know if it's just swept under the rug of euphemism (hard drugs or pot? alcoholism or a few beers? unsafe sex or premarital sex? S&M orgies or dinner parties? trusting untrustworthy people? - the choice to betray my trust is _theirs_ ). So I just found, "I don't know what she's talking about" and couldn't keep watching. But I'm so glad she got out and didn't raise her daughter in it. I hope she gets to the point where she doesn't have so much shame about the past that she can't talk about it. (Not that she necessarily will want to share that on TH-cam when she does. Just I felt that the euphemisms were motivated by the same thing as calling JW "the Truth" -- habit and programming.)
Ugh all they wanted to talk about in the judicial meeting was wether or not two consenting adults potentially shared an intimate moment, when she’s asking them for help…Idk how she didn’t just call them sleezballs and storm out of the meeting
@@ckelly5141 it took me years to finally buy a Bible not produced by WBTS. It's been a game changer! Have you seen Lloyd's videos on doctored scriptures. Wow!🤯
@maria martin I feel you so much with this. I'm literally figuring out my spirituality everyday. 😆 I definitely feel like there's things we will just never understand but there's also a lot of evidence pertaining to higher powers if we're open to that. If you ever need a buddy for the journey ahead, I'm here for you 🥰
@Cherie. No, I have not watched that one yet. I left jw’s after 38 years baptized in Dec.2020. I left alone. All my family is still in but I have never been so happy in my life despite the adversities. I now know that I have a real Christian faith that is relationship based and not based on a denomination or cult.
@Cherie. Sorry, I forgot to comment on the Bible. Yes there are so many excellent translations out there. Right now I am using the CSB but it is so good to compare! I could also suggest downloading The Blue Letter Bible on your smartphone or tablet. Then, no one will be able to pull the wool over your eyes when you can check words or phrases in Greek or Hebrew. Happy reading and studying!🙂
It’s been six or seven years since I fully stopped attending meetings, but honestly I understand living day to day and accepting my death at ‘armageddon’. I had just told myself that I’d rather die in a world of things that make me happy, than suffer as a Jehovah’s Witness for whatever years remained only to CONTINUE suffering as a JW in the ‘paradise’. It’s fucked up.
Their so called paradise is not a happy place, and their god is not a benevolent one. I've also spent a fair amount of time fantasizing about armageddon. I just thought I would want to ask god and his cronies a bunch of poignant questions, if it ever came to it. Of course I don't fear armageddon anymore, we humans are very capable of ushering in the end of civilization as is, no divine intervention required, but I'd prefer us humans rather took responsibility and ownership of the problem, instead of just believing in an invisible and tyrannical sky wizard to magically appear and fix everything.
@@NIL0S it does sort of sound like the ‘easier way out’ doesn’t it? And that in itself becomes a point towards their agenda. “Why worry yourself with the daily anxieties that the world worries about, like death and illness and disease? Instead believe in two polar opposite, invisible forces that can be accountable for every little thing that happens to you.” Ignorance really is bliss for some.
@@valkyrie__3630 Aye, "It's gotta be Satan" whenever something bad happens. "It's the hand of Jehova" whenever something good occurs. What about "It's human to make mistakes"? Or, "Sometimes sh*t just happens"? Life's precious *precisely* because it's finite. There are no do-overs, no washing of guilt through death or faith. People around us are precious because they won't be there forever. Forgiveness becomes a necessity, tolerance paramount. How can you show real empathy if none of this is real, and just an antechamber to the forever-after? I'd rather live my life now, truly awake, eyes wide open.
Read Matthew 18:21-35
It's better to forgive your self and move on then to say I'm going die at Armageddon so so be it! We can call it Armageddon' judgement day whatever ' the system will conclude but no matter how wrong a religion is or how hard we fall. Giving up is not the final answer. Do your best.
It’s so nice to have found a community to discuss these things with, after years of having to keep quiet to spare the Witnesses because I still felt they were right. Y’all are amazing.
The more I hear ex-JW testimonies about breaking free of the cult, the happier I am that I never became involved in it.
Yes I am happy I dodged that bullet also!
Same here🙂👻
I judged the bullet in 1978 - saw through them even before the internet. Found they were not very Christian at all.
Me too! Very, very, thankful I never got "reeled in by this CULT"!!! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
@@annafarago2271 so true. Very cold uncaring robots
That is a really important point you have made about them being able to penalise 2 consenting adults for engaging in sex, but sweep under the carpet all the child sexual abuse. Such hypocrites!
exactly and how many jws get married at 18/19/20 when they barely know the person just so they can have sex
It's awful that the parents blamed her for being assaulted. Also, the parents' nasty statement that "you put yourself in the situation" is a lie. If she had been a boy and gone to the same party and been attacked the same way, would the parents have said he had it coming? No one deserves assault.
Sometimes I feel like misogynists treat women like they are a tasty piece of meat. Our sole presence is alluring, by just standing somewhere we are being a temptation to men. Ive found it SO taxing and emotionally draining to be surrounded of people who think like that.
@@theyoutubeanalyst3731 it’s even worse when you’re a 12 year old that developed early- many, *many* grown men have no qualms about sexually harassing a literal child.
When my daughter was starting to go out, she and her friends (including the boys) got „THE TALK“ about safety and looking after another.
Later some parents of boys complained that I frightened their boys for nothing! After all, these things don’t happen to boys!
I wasn’t raped, but I was absolutely violated, and this same reasoning was used on me. I was at a witness party 🤷🏼♀️
@@chrissyparkins1615 I'm sorry. That's awful.
It will take me a few days to pick up my jaw after hearing her say that her father physically attacked her for religious reasons.
I'm still in shock myself. He's had ridiculous behavior my whole life but that last incident was shocking! He's practically dead to me now.
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 - I don't blame you. I would feel the same way in your position.
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449
My holier-than-thou father choked me when I told him "f@ck you" in a heated moment. My mother and sister witnessed this incident. They saw the handprints on my neck. He never apologized bc he never, ever apologized to his kids, but probably apologized to his colleagues in the kh!
He's dead now! F@ck you, dad
Oh @@R.Oates7902 I'm sorry to hear what you've been though. It's so incredibly painful when it's your own parents. Shame on them!!
This video was sent to me by my cousin asking me if I knew this young woman. I knew her when she was maybe 2 or 3. I knew her parents before leaving the organization.
If I’m 100% honest it’s very triggering. We were in the same congregation when I was a teen. Very similar story with me and I have so much to say, I don’t know where to start. My heart goes out to her. I feel and experienced much of the same thing.
Amazed by your strength and bravery for telling your story, Cherie.
So glad you’re awake!
Oh my goodness! You know me from way back then? I'd love to reconnect! I'm so sorry we have similar stories but I'm so happy to see you awake and free as well. Please feel free to find me on Facebook so we can connect 🥰
Sometimes with a strong religious background, I believe we get into a self punishing cycle because of both guilt as well as a sense of failure.
I mean, the structure of the JW belief system specifically is designed to do this. “Never stop running the race” keeps people too distracted with mundane cult activities and they cannot wake up and deprogram themselves. Cults do this by design.
@@jrojala I was especially thinking about youth and the teen age years. When your identity is wrapped around beliefs and only salvation if you adhere to specific behaviors. Rape was traumatic and the feedback is to blame oneself. I was not brought up a witness but Baptist. There was guilt or double for instance, over buying playing cards when fairly young. I thought they were taboo. Later with the difficulties in the teen age years, I took up smoking because it was representative of how I felt about myself. Worthless and no good. Smoking was something one did not do as I was growing up- it was wrong. What you mentioned is also true but the issues are greatly compounded during youth- especially those that are more vulnerable. She was a raped victim and associated with individuals that were considered part of the world or satan’s system.
That is me today. Even though I’m out and facing what I was. I feel like a failure even though I know what I said would not have made a difference to me while I was under control.
@@LOH__ a suggestion by another you tuber is to make a list of all of your positive qualities or qualities you liked or are aware of. ZPlace it on the refrigerator and go over it occasionally. There probably other ideas that are helpful.
Yeah. Ex-jws, we’ve got to stop calling it “ the truth”.
It’s not the Truth it’s a pack of twisted evil lies!
Sounds like The Farce to me. Every ex-JW's story I have ever listened to is the same.
@NonCoinCollector she's suffered a lifetime of abuse and brainwashing, obviously still on a journey towards some level of healing, I'm sure her therapist is helping her with the habit of referring to that cult as "the truth". It's not Lloyd's place to correct her. And not our place to criticize her for that use of terminology. She is working on changing. That should be good enough.
@NonCoinCollector I'm sad to hear about what happened with your dad. The leaders within Jehovah's witnesses cult are an evil bunch (IMO). It's taken me many years to have some normalcy in my life and at times, I still feel like I'm failing. I was born into it, dissociated when I was mid 20's, and still working on healing. I hope there will be some kind of karmic justice for the twisted leaders in that group. They've deeply hurt so many.
@NonCoinCollector and TBH, hearing people say "the truth" makes me cringe. Ugh. I hate it. But like I said, she's still working through her healing journey. That brainwashing will be with her for a long time, unfortunately 😥
Blaming victim...despicable!
The man that killed my mother was put on trial by the State; his defending attorney kept blaming my mother with that "the woman in the little white car" terminology; as if to say if she hadn't been there in the wrong place at the wrong time he would not have run over her and killed her! Her fault!
That’s horrible to go through. You have my sympathy. The man who murdered my cousin finally got 20 years in prison.
@@dancingnature that young man(to young to be legal) got a $500. Fine, a suspended sentence with Three(3) years probation
It’s definitely a lot harder for people that are born into it. I can attest to that. Thanks to Cherie for sharing her story. ☺️
Awe thank you, Maryann!
Ministerial Servent requirements = pulse and a third leg
Dude you have absolutely no idea how accurate that statement is. (Soon to be ex-ministerial servant)
Debbie
Third leg!
lol
😄
…often, ending up in a kid's derrière! 🤪😲🤯🤪
I really enjoyed this interview. Despite everything she’s been through Cherie’s warmth shines through the screen. Good luck for the future xx
Oh thank you for your incredibly kind words, Sara🥰
The Governing Body always rules: It's the victim's fault.
Especially if you are a women
@@kathyheitchue2022 It happens to boys and men too, though I wont doubt it happens to females 10 to 1. A boy who was just turning 12 and had some very slight flamboyant mannerisms gets diddled by another adult in the congregation and the boy gets blamed for acting on homosexual impulses. The adult makes up some story that he was innocent and the boy (who was baptized at 9) was the initiator....... I have never heard of something so disgusting in my life. Thankfully that kid came out of it and is doing well given the situation.
WOW, incredible, unbelievable, your story Cherie has exposed the Hipocracy behind this cult and how it divides and destroys families. You're a very powerful and strong woman Cherie, you have overcome some insane obsticles and I hope that you and your daughter have a wonderful and beautiful life outside of this cult. I'll take your story to heart Cherie and I wish you the best in life, and enjoy many beautiful blessings beyond this cult. I was in this organization for 38 years of my life, I'm now POMO, I've been out for over three years already and I'm never going back EVER. Thanks for telling your story Cherie , and Lloyd thank you for another wonderful interview, about someone who was born into the witnesses and left this religion later on in their lives, just like me. Keep the interviews coming Lloyd, I love them.
Thank you. She is an amazing woman and I am glad to have helped her get out.
Thank you so much! You're kind words are really appreciated. I just hope to help others!
I can’t understand how punishing someone when they’re at their most vulnerable could ever be considered loving, it’s so messed up.
This is what underpins the 'love' of the Witnesses. I will never understand this other than to think of them as the most fearful and scared, insecure organisation I've ever known. They're so scared.
OMG! their double standard are outrageous. Serve it up as it suites them. 2 witness rull out the door when pore helpless babies are involved, sickening.!
when she calls it "the truth" oof triggering
Hard habit to break!!
It's okay. There are mental quotation marks around it every time I hear it. It's double speak. Any normal person will raise an eyebrow at the lingo.
@@NIL0S jws say it so confidently though that I have even heard “worldly” people refer to it as “the truth” without even thinking because they heard it from relatives or friends. Brainwashing is so simple and so effective.
It was just a word slip thanks to nerves and 30 years of indoctrination 😅
Their conditional love is showing.
Whoo your father has some rage issues.
Yes! Yes he does!
Your story touch me, what you allowed to happen to you and what you felt you needed to endure to be "GOOD"
So happy your now able to let that believe go and start healing. Your knowing the best gift you can give your daughter is the freedom to be herself with out guilt.
@@cheryllakin6736 amen to that! 🥰
Teenage rebellion is a necessary stage of development for young people to separate themselves from their parental units. Of course, there is a healthy type of rebellion and an unhealthy way.
Well put. Many of us missed that train and suffer since.
Ah that is so amazing that Susan's story helped Cherie 🥰 I love knowing that your work is making such a difference Lloyd, well done everyone keep sharing the TRUTH
Yes, I love interviews.
This is beautiful. I love your vulnerability in this interview. The second your voice started breaking I lost it. Truly inspiring!!!
Oh thank you so much, Asha!🥰
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 and thank you!
DO NOT ever allow your daughter to go over to your parents' house again. It sounds like your father cannot get over his cognitive dissonance; he's holding on with all his might to the cult.
I would allow my daughter to see her grand parents with the strict rule of "No Cult Indoctrination" Just be her grandparents and give her love. I was never a JWs but if a family member including my parents tried to indoctrinate my child I would sit them down in private and commence to destroying their cult in the most loving way possible.
@@anonymousprofessor8866 A JWs main focus is to indoctrinate, even the grandparent. I would not allow grandchildren to visit JW relatives without the parents or supervision. If it involves shunning the parents on top of that, allowing the visits shows the child that it's ok to allow disrespect, inconsiderate behavior, and division of the family. Definitely no.
@@anonymousprofessor8866 I’m going to have to tell you that you need to have been a JW to understand that a child even an adult one will never feel comfortable in their grand parents company when they are literally bombarded with trying to guilt and instil fear in them .. along with a sense of disappointment to the gparents.. it’s a relationship that has no future and it’s soil destroying .. I know it.. my adult children have been through it .. I have also experienced the violence that came with messing up (leaving my song book at home from a meeting at 16 years of age) .. not worthy of having your head smashed into a brick wall repeatedly until your mother’s screaming that she will call the police if he doesn’t stop.. makes the situation diffuse ..
it’s hard to convey the rage that some parents feel at their children and grandchildren not making them “look good” .. 😰
@@VictoriaOz My heart goes out to you and the trauma you've experience in that satanic wicked cult. Blessings to you!
Currently I am going back and forth with a troll who claims to be a JWs. The level of brainwashing is off the charts with this person.
There is absolutely No critical thinking with this person and I wonder are JWs mentally disabled?
When I agreed to do Bible Studies with JWs they never ever answered any of my critical thinking questions which was a huge red flag!!! All cults should be banned because they are not a religion and ultimately hurt children and families.
There has never been a cult in the history of humanity that has not hurt children.
I believe once an organization has been proven to be guilty of causing harm to children they need to be banned!!! Period!!!
Yes, protecting children should be the first priority.
Really enjoyed this interview!! ❤️
Growing up in this can really do a number on you...
I did not expect to come out of this interview wanting to cry. Pimo attempting to leave for the sake of my toddlers and it brought back so many memories of my teen years. My now elder father was physically abusive with me several times over my rebelliousness. To the point where I went to school the next day with bruises so badly I was walking with a limp and struggling to sit down at my desk. The belt and I became very familiar with each other that year. One day in the future I would love to shine light on all of the abuse I endured from both of my seemingly perfect Christian parents. I feel like it has to be very commonly hidden along with the SA within the organization. At one time I was convinced if I told on him he would lose his privileges. Now I realize it probably wouldn’t have even mattered nor been reported.
I hope one day I will be lucky to have conversations with you it's like a therapy I been out over 10 years but I just became free mentally like 2 months ago when I found your page
I'd love Lloyd to interview my mum. I've asked her the story so many times and I'm always getting a new angle on it either from her or from me.
There's one special mail you need to write to in order to be considered to be interviewed by Lloyd! I don't quite remember what that is, but I think it involves his producer 🤔
Me too! Been out 10 years but only became mentally free when I found lloyd in January this year!
My parents know my rules. If you want contact with me or my children there can be no talk of their religion. I've been out for more than 30 years and they have done pretty well. When they have brought it up I have put them in their place very quickly and tell them how they're beliefs are wrong. Needless to say they rarely slip up.
Samesies! It's been about 10 years for me as well and I'm just now understanding how deep this went.
Guys tomorrow is gonna be awkward. In lieu of prayers (since Im a disfellowshipped atheist) maybe share a joke or a similar experience. I’m filling in tomorrow as a pediatric home health nurse for a JW family for their baby just home from the hospital. I haven’t been around witnesses since my judicial committee. My company made the huge mistake of telling them I AM a witness, because they thought that would help talk me up considering I understand the blood issue etc.
I let the company know that is could be super awkward for the family and me, and not to share that I WAS a witness with anyone else.
Man I feel better just sharing this with you guys. It’s been eating at me ALL DAY. Fingers crossed, good vibes and good luck whatever crap you want to send my way… as long as it’s atheist. Hahaha.
Edit: The end of the shift I had a 40 minute conversation with the elder dad. I am now at home sobbing. I’ll comment on Lloyd’s next video or something. While I got across many good points. I’m just having to look at what I used to be in the mirror for the first time, has left me incredibly sad and angry at myself. It was like talking to my very recent self.
I am grateful I have Resources to remind me that I was in a mind control cult. At the start of the shift I felt myself immediately go back to a submissive fearful state and just had to tell this elder whatever he asked me. But at the end of the shift even though I felt like I shared what makes me now an apostate, it just brings up huge amounts of self-loathing.
Wishing strength to you. People in health care are already so incredibly strong.
🤞🤞
Just be professional. Be yourself. I'm sure you've seen a lot in your job, this probably won't even remotely be the worst *laughs knowingly* But your company needs to get their privacy policies together.
Oh man I do not envy you. Your company probably doesn’t think “cult” when they hear JWs, yet they should considering they prefer people die rather than get blood transfusions. Focus on the child & you’ll be just fine I think. Thanks for being such a professional, even when put in such an awkward & uncomfortable situation. You rock!
That’s awful that your company did that. I would think there would be some kind of law that you’re not supposed to divulge any personal information about someone when they go out on a job. I’m an atheist too so I don’t know how funny I am but I am going to keep good thoughts for you today.🙋🏻♀️
Thank you Cherie .. so very brave ..
and your voice resonated with me so much .. you are a remarkable woman and you have many years ahead of you to enjoy the best things in life free from fear obligation and guilt... I wish you so much happiness for your future and the future of your daughter. Thank you for sharing your story 😌
Thank you for your incredibly kind words, Victoria. I hate to hear that you've also gone through a lot but I hope you made it through. Freedom is worth it! 🥰
I just L❤VED this whole interview, and I LOVE Cherie ❤ well done Cherie 👏
She is such a thorough and a good story teller. I love how she has embraced her journey and her knowledge.
Thank you both so much!🥰
I love how she described her waking up moment on her back yard. ❤️I think described many of us when she said she knew something was wrong and is not until everything click than she finally open her eyes and realize she is in a cult. Thanks for this interview.
Thank you, Sarah! 🥰
The problem with JWs, and a lot of other religions in general, is that they tend to feel completely self-righteous in anything that they say or do, no matter how badly they are missing the mark. I still talk with my parents, even if I have walked away from their cult a long time ago (never baptized, luckily). My father is a huge narcissist and alcoholic. It never ceases to amaze how easy it is for him to play the holy man and be indignant whenever I point out what a crappy childhood I've had (well, the teenage years and my early twenties for sure) thanks to their fundamentalist beliefs and attempts at indoctrinating me. I'm then somehow made out to be the bad and misguided person that failed, not them. They say that I'm just bitter and angry, and to a large extent they are right. We as cult survivors have every right to be, as we've had decades of our lives stolen, possibly some of the most formative and important ones, too.
I have nothing to add. I just wanted to send you some atheistic love and best wishes.
These stories always hit close to my heart, even though I was never a member.
Good luck with the rest of your life, friend.
The empathy is much appreciated. I'm doing fine now in my life, so no worries. It's just cathartic to speak about it. It's probably a thing people carry with them for the rest of their lives. Thanks for understanding.
@@NIL0S 💚👌
I know what you mean, I had my youth stolen from me too, and my mom doesn't talk to me anymore because I'm not in the religion. But you know what I feel sorry for her that she aloud herself to be so controlled by this cult. I need to move on and focus on the positive, I can be thankful that at least she fed me and gave me a home even if it wasn't a loving one. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't even be here and I wouldn't have been able to eventually wake up.
Well said.
Obviously, one of the things that cults try to control is a person's sexuality (along with their thoughts, information, emotions); it goes to the core of who we are. People can be easily manipulated and shamed if who they have sex with and how and why is controlled by the cult.
Check BITE control
The Shepard book=. Organization Standards Operating Procedure (SOP)!
Lloyd, Thanks for helping so many people wake up! Me included! Great interview!
You are a very brave, honest and down-to-earth lady, Cherie :) How you managed to refrain from striking back at your dad is amazing, and he's lucky you did refrain! I wouldn't let my kids near someone as violent and abusive as that. Especially with the indoctrination as well; it seems as if the reason why they want to see your daughter is so they can indoctrinate her, not because she's their own flesh and blood. It doesn't matter how much you ask them, nor how much they agree, to stopping talking religion with her, they will continue to do it. They will. Search your feelings, you know it to be true :) Keep your young lady away from them, unless you are 100% there to supervise. They need to learn that their behaviour is neither normal nor acceptable.
Thank you for your kind words, Tony! And unfortunately you're so right. They will never be capable of just being grandparents. It's so sad!
Really great interview Cherie. Very emotional and raw. Glad to hear you have come out of this on the better side and sorry to hear the things you had to go through.
Thanks Hayden! It sure does feel good to have a real life now!
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 I second your comments there!
Sadly Cherie needs to look at her parents the same way adult children of addicts have to look at their parents. She can love her parents, but because they are involved in a cult they're unable to be parents or grandparents.
I believe Tibor IS gracious
Tibor is as gracious AF!
*angelic chorus chanting for Tibor*
Always.
He is. Lloyd even has a T-shirt with that on it & I just got it in the mail the other day. I hope you’re doing well, Jamie.🙋🏻♀️👚
@@maryannlockwood7806 haha love it! Hadn't noticed that. All's well here, hope you're doing good X
I completely relate to Cherie, they made me feel like an imposter in my own family just for having my own thoughts.
I can relate to that. 💁🏻♀️
I felt this way too.
Oh I hate to hear so many that feel the same 😔
🫂
I am pleased to hear she called the police
Lloyd, all your videos are worthy in their own right but man, your conversations with exJW women are the absolute creme de la creme of your work and your conversation with Cherie is quite simply the pinnacle of your work to date.
This is instructive on so very many levels. It is a powerful window into women’s experience of this archly patriarchal organization: Men lording it over women and children, seeing everything from the male-rulers frame of reference, oblivious and/or uncaring of the impact of their patriarchal dictates on women.
You and Cherie have said it well: Judicial committees in which “immorality” is the hot topic are ruthlessly male-oriented in which often very young baptised women (some still children!) feel violated and further abused. That these men have little, if any awareness of their dreadful impact on women is a powerful indicator of how totally immersed in their patriarchy they are. Women who go through the judicial-committee mill often end up being blamed - including for the disgusting things men have done to them.
This video will be so helpful to so many people - including of course males - and help them see the arrogant men pulling strings behind the illusory curtain. Excellent, excellent work!
Thank you so much for your comment! 🥰 I'm absolutely committed to helping not just other exjw's but especially the women who leave this horrible and demeaning cult!
thank you
Don't hold your breath Cherie waiting for any witness to call out of concern!
After many decades in that organization ... not one jw gave me a call!
Strangely those cult members don't even ask WHY we leave!
Congratulations on your final escape, all the best to you~
Oh yeah. Ha! Not holding my breath! Good luck to you as well. Freedom looks good on you!
My soon-to-be-ex has had a meltdown for years because I, and our three children, have become everything the Watchtower says we shouldn't be: atheists, anti-JWs, one is non-binary, one is in the military, I didn't quit the military, and we've had college education of course... and we all oppose this religion more than any other because of the suffering it has brought us.
Look at all you accomplished rebels!! 🤣🤣 keep it up!! Lol!
I relate sooo much to your story! It is so similar to my own. I left as a teenager and then went back in my early 20s for about 4 years because I was a single mom and my family told me they would support me if I came back to the JWs. I relate to that constantly being told I was bad and a problem and like my family was always just waiting for me to screw up again. I appreciate so much your courage telling your story. I feel less alone knowing there is someone out there with a similar story.
❤
I was never baptised, luckily, anyway, i like a week ago, asked my old jw friend how is he doing, he didnt even answer well, and then tried to brainwash me to come back to jw, it was so weird…
I also have a childhood friend that completely cut me out of his life once I made it clear that I was not interested in the religeous parts of our conversations. Find better friends... It's not gonna be hard, considering what we are comparing to.
I lived a similar physical assault from my jw wife only because I didn't want to post a comment about a picture she shared in a family group. I went to the police.
I can't understand how they speak so very kindly to people outside and mistreat their supposed loved ones.
The closer you are to them the harder it is to keep up the pretense.
Oh I'm sorry to hear that , Mike.
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449
Thanks Cherie
I'm in therapy for overcoming from this bad experience, nevertheless, my psi is not expert in cults, so, she doesn't understand how dangerous JW can be
@Mike Whites
My husband suspected he once worked with a man being assaulted by his wife. He wore long sleeved shirts in the summer. It just seemed like that was happening to him.Thank God you got the police involved and their is a record of the assault!
Men get assaulted by their female partners just like women are assaulted by their partners. I hope your life is better now.
@@R.Oates7902
Thanks a lot for your comments.
It's not easy to go to the police to denounce to your partner for so many years, but it's necessary to leave a record of this kind of violence. What it's incredible to me is the fact that the indoctrination of the Watchtower simply doesn't work on moments like this, they are only ready to block themselves when there's evidence against the organization, there's when it works perfectly.
Thank you for sharing your story which in many ways mirrors my own. I’m trying to move forward, difficult.
You've got this!! WE'VE got this!! I'm sorry for whatever you have been through. I'm here if you need a friend!🥰🖤
What a lovely lady you are Cherie, thank-you for sharing some of your story with us. Well handled Lloyd.
Thank you, Robyn. You're so kind🥰
I’d give my entire paycheck just to speak to you one on one Lloyd, not on TH-cam tho. I just don’t know what to do but your videos truly so help
When she said "do over" daughter I felt that. I was my grandparents "do over" daughter to the point some people thought I was their actual daughter when we went to other kingdom halls.
Thank you for sharing your comment. I'm sorry you went through that but I think it will help my daughter down the road to know she's not alone.
Love the overhead cam shots! The bunker looks very spacious! Love this interview, I could relate to being physically out but still holding onto indoctrination for years! It's good to have theses resources like your channel thank you Lloyd for your hard work!
Thank you for commenting, Virginia! Good luck on your continued journey. I love you name... it was my grandmother's name and is my daughter's middle name as well.
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 I feel honored! Be well!
its scary hearing ex witness still using THE TRUTH to describe jw, I am so glad i escaped before i got used to calling it the truth
It was just nerves taking over & 30 years of indoctrination is hard to shake. 😆
Thank you @@dolam 🥰
Great interview, good to hear what goes on in that toxic Cult
Thanks Frank!
I wish Lloyd could give my parents a stern talking to.
Right?!!🤣
I can relate. If I didn’t put myself in that situation it wouldn’t have happened. I blamed myself for so long and sometimes still do. The amount of therapy I need man lol
Wrong ! someone took advantage of your vulnerability to abuse you. That’s not your fault!
I'm so sorry to hear that! I hope you can keep pushing through all of that past trauma. You're worth it to leave it behind!
I had a mother who was a rabid jw. I realized early that she would never respect my boundaries, so I had to patrol them. We never left the children alone with her. When she visited, the watchtowers etc had to stay in her car. She would still test the limits of the boundaries. One occasion she was staying with us because their circuit assembly location was close to us. These assemblies were always at the same time as one of the children’s birthdays. When the table was set for the kid’s’ birthday party, which she offered to lay, I noticed that all of the napkins were folded so the birthday message was inside and only the plain area was visible. Petty and ridiculous but what do you expect from a cult member 🤷🏻♂️
I really appreciated Lloyd's interview with Cherie Clark-Spitzer. I'm so sorry to hear about how she was sexually assaulted at a party and her one female "friend" acted like it was no big deal. That detail really upset me. No, rape is a big deal and it can never be consensual. I did like how she talked about doing a bit of storm spotting for her local weather TV network channel when she lived in Hawaii. I've always thought it would be interesting to be a storm chaser and chase tornadoes in particular, but I don't think meteorological societies really fund that kind of work because it is so very, very dangerous. In fact, some years ago, three storm chasers with years worth of experience were killed while pursing an F-5 twister. I've also had a bit of fear of tornadoes because when my parents and I would visit and stay overnight or for a few days, maybe even a week with some of our relatives in Southern States -- I was always worried about a storm outbreak developing. Some of my relatives have experienced first-hand what it is like to be in these storms. My JW great-grandparents told me stories about what happened during the Tri-State Tornado of 1925, the deadliest tornadic storm in American history, when I was a very young child.
Now, my great-grandparents and my JW grandparents were not directly involved with the Tri-State Tornado of 1925, but they remembered when it happened. It was an awful tragedy, and not very many people in the United States, and people living in other countries probably less so, have ever even heard of it -- which is why it is sometimes referred to as "the forgotten storm." I am glad that while working in marketing in the healthcare industry that Cherie was able to find another job after she was fired. The COVID-19 pandemic has been so hard on nearly everyone in one way or another. No doubt this pandemic's global impact will be debated by historians for years to come. It truly frightens me with all this anti-vaccine propaganda going around.
I'm disgusted that Cherie was practically blamed for being raped by her JW Elders. Elders often don't treat victims of child sexual abuse any better either. A few years back, Lloyd, commented about a video that gained a bit of popularity on TH-cam of an ex-JW young lady who knew at least three other young women who were sexually assaulted when they were still JWs, and not one of them received any support from their religious community. These women found support and comfort amongst people outside of the Organization, you know, the "worldly" people who only care about "sinning" and other stuff. The part of Cherie's story when she talks about the responses to the abuse she endured at the hands of her attacker, man, that story got me so heated.
Thank you for your wonderful comment!🧡
Cherie, I'm so proud of you. Now you can fully live life and discover the true potential that you have inside you
Oh thank you so much! And how right you are! 🤣 freedom is a wonderful thing!
Thank you Chérie for sharing your story…I can relate. Similarly to you Steven Hassan’s BITE model put meaning into JW indoctrination, as well as Bonnie Zieman’s « EXiting the JW Cult - A Healing Handbook » I had the same reaction as you!!
By the way, your name in French means « cherished » it’s used as a term of endearment. Believe this! 💜♥️
Thank you so much for your comment! Steven Hassan is my hero and right you are about the meaning of my name. I try to remember that everyday! 🥰
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 😘🥰😘.
Though endearing, Mère-de-Dieu means Mother of God (even though JWs, at least, never call Mary that!)
Great job, Cherie! You're so right, everyone wakes up differently and at different speeds, POMI is a broad spectrum too.
It is refreshing to hear from someone whose path to awakening began with being POMI! I sometimes feel sheepish hearing all the interviews of those who woke up while in the org and then left... the experience of being POMI is one that needs to be shared more. I think there are so, so many that still are and need our help.
Love you girl! 😍
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 🥰🥰
@@deenadamico2673 I agree, when I first made the realization I was POMI for a long ass time, I felt super ashamed (I've since reprocessed and no longer feel this way) especially because it seemed the sentiment from other exJWs was that POMIs were like, this obnoxious group of outliers that nobody wanted to deal with. But being POMI doesn't necessarily mean that you believe it's definitely the one true religion, it can simply mean you haven't realized that it is in fact a cult, you haven't reframed your past with the proper perspective and you're still lost thinking that maybe there was just something wrong with you. Not realizing you were abused is a horrible place to be and there's still at least some stigmatization toward POMIs, I think, and I'd love to see that change.
Just wanted to add: Even if being POMI *does* mean you thought 100% it's the one true religion, and definitely there was something wrong with *you*, that still shouldn't be seen as some sort of individual shortcoming. Not being able to recognize that you're being abused isn't something to be ashamed of.
I will always love a good pandemic wake up story b/c I share in that experience. When she got chocked up as she expressed how grateful she was to find Lloyd's channel at the right time of distress and confusion, I feel the same way every time I reflect on my shocking moment of awakening. Great points here like making every effort to get rid of WT labels. You do not have to confess or always tell the truth to company men. Just refuse to reply, play the word game or just lie like the fake religious leaders. And yes, really research and work on yourself before submitting a reinstatement b/c things are not working out for you in the world.
Congratulations on your freedom Sammy!!
Oh my this interview was a journey! Had my mouth agape and shouting at my screen! Thank you for sharing your story 💕
🤣 thank you! Lol. Hopefully you didn't get too worked up. Lol!
Fantastic interview the female perspective of most major religious groups is fascinating There’s literally no incentive for most woman to be apart of most religions This is like generations of indoctrination on her part definitely not mad at her calling it truth but clearly it’s triggering for some It’s terrible that she didn’t get to live her life fully until she became an adult but I love her spirit of standing up and keeping it moving and not passing the bs to her daughter 😉
Thank you Big Sr. 😊 honestly the word slip was just simply nerves and 30 years of indoctrination. I certainly didn't mean it as a fact. Lol!
Thank you for your encouragement and kind words. I feel like I'm 35 years late to having my own life but cheers to the next 35 and yes most importantly my daughter will have a REAL life!
I’m so happy that members of this cult are waking up.
Commenting to help Lloyd. ✌🏼❤️ from Philly.
I can't say I'm a young women with a baby on the way, however I really could relate to one aspect of this story. That is, how this organization makes you feel. When I was a teenager I wanted to hang out with my friends and go skateboarding and this was not what my fully indoctrinated mom wanted for me. Because of this I was constantly made to feel there was something wrong with me and that I wasn't good enough. Because of that I just got worse until I left home. Looking back I just think it's shameful how the religion treats people, they should never be aloud to call themselves a loving organization, they are anything but. And thanks to Cherie for sharing her story!
Thank you for sharing as well. It floors me as well and one thing that never ever sat right with me from even a young age.... this "religion" of love and this is how they treat people!?! So hypocritical! They in no way are a true religion... they're just like all the other man made up crap that's out there.
I had a friend who was a jw and i didnt know they werent worldly ppl until later on and when i saw her dad he gave a hateful stare but then later she left and became a pagan.
Then a former manager of mine is a jw and i was the only nonwhite person and he questioned me about taking gloves from work and a few other things so i eventually quit cause i wasnt even allowed to drink coffee cause he assumed it would counteract with my meds which i in turn asked my doctor he said no it wouldnt. So then i just left cause i couldnt take it anymore
Omg, "set up for failure" hit me so hard. I was on my own at 15. I've been working since I was 10. The money I earned while working in their restaurant went to my care; clothes, school supplies, food. I had no preparation for life. My college money was taken for my "care" in highschool. It's only now at 41 that I'm feeling I can even fully recognize the abuse.
I'm so sorry to hear all that you went through. Good luck as you continue your journey! I'm so proud of you for all you've come through! 💓
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 thank you!
I wonder if she is from Bentonville AR, I have family in that area that she might know.
Bentonville was where I grew up 😊 I'd love to know if we're connected in some way! Feel free to find me on Facebook so we can connect.
Your story was very triggering for me because I related to so much of what you expressed. Thank you for sharing your story.💞
Much love to you! I'm so sorry for what you've been through. Stay strong! 🥰
Good. I hope that stay melted down to the extent that they leave this evil cult. Well done daughter
Thank you, Gail. I appreciate your support! I will always always hope my parents wake up but I certainly don't let that hold me back.
Now you have opened your eyes , an no longer living in fear / as did Gordon Maxwell ,have you been InTouch with him !!!!!!!!
Your story is so much like mine. I was baptized at 18 years old. I was publicly reproved at 17 for being raped. The guy was was a 21 year and baptized. He was disfellowshipped. Out of guilt I got baptized when I was 18
Oh Ana! I hate to hear all of that! I'm sorry you went through that!
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 thanks. I got out okay though. I’m inactive and have been since 1994. I do what I want and no one in my family argue with me. My kids always were always apart of my family’s lives. I just always told them they were in a cult and didn’t know it. My kids love them but feel sorry for them.
@@craftyana6503 thanks for sharing! I'm so glad you got out and that your living a REAL life! 🥰
I love Akan-sis, makes me laugh every time.
Surely, as an ex-witness, she should be called Arkan-Didn't-See...
We enjoyed this interview immensely. What a smart lady that presents her thoughts so well. Maybe her parents will wake up someday. Her father made a terrible mistake by assaulting her, didn't he? Sounds like it might have been her calling the religion a "cult" that was the trigger. Jay-dubs get very defensive when the term "cult" is used about them - I think because they're scared to death of admitting that it is not only true, in fact, there is no term more fitting for the group. Regardless of what the trigger was, he needs to be held accountable for his actions and seek professional help for his mental health problems, real help, from someone other than the uneducated jay-dub elders.
thank you , Cherie is an amazing woman. I am so lucky to be her rock.
Love this video. Thank you for sharing your story,
Thanks Sherrell! 🥰
Love her interview!
Thank you Ann💗
I can pinpoint the actual moment I woke up from a lifetime of indoctrination 4 years ago.
It was like you Cherie, reading Steven Hassan's BITE model 🙏 Only then did I allow myself to research the religion my parents had chosen for me, the result being it was like a game of Jenga, it all came crashing down at breathtaking speed!
Best wishes from the UK enjoy all the firsts xx
Love your story! That BITE model is a game changer isn't it?! Lol!
My family is the same way. They are not model witnesses at all yet vehemently defend the org as if they were. I think it's guilt driven, they know they don't live up fully to the JW standards so lashing out and defending the org is there way of "making up" for that.
Me too!! Zoom meetings and the pandemic gave so many of us space from the indoctrination and time to think for ourselves
Is there a way to contact her?
Look her up on Facebook
Sure Lynn... Feel free to message me on Facebook 🥰
~if thats all you know thats what your constantly straving for~ dont look at the man behind the curtain.. i felt this way for so long....never baptized thank my lucky stars.but i was born in studied with different elders on and off my whole life totally believed it was the truth i just wasnt getting it....so glad i found Lloyd and the truth hurts, falling tower literally saved me from this toxic org.
I’m in the process of FINALLY disfellowshipping myself, and I was wondering if I was the only one who’s gone through this. I should have known!!! I think we all go through it 🤷🏼♀️ I had to hit my absolute rock bottoms to get to this point, but it’s definitely been worth it. 39 years of HEAVY indoctrination doesn’t just ‘fall away’. It’s a process…
It's not "the Truth." Please, stop calling it that.
It and other phrases take years to stop. Its so ingrained and takes a long time. I cringe at "Oh my God" and "our prayers blah blah". The JW only words are by design, it reinforces the doctrine. The GB and the followers spend more time learning control techniques than coming p with "new light" these days.
better to call it the "unthruth"
Everyone knows... be kind, many stop believing in god and keep the jw indoctrination, it is hard indoctrination... Please, Don't be unpleasant.
There are irony quotes round that word.
@@GitanAnimex
Even better,it would be more appropriate to call it ‘the bullshit’.
(How long have you been in’… ……..’?)
16:20 makes me want to punch a wall.
They still make everything my fault. It's taught me a whole lot about narcissism!
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 💜💜💜
the entire thing makes me want to punch a wall too. You are not alone LOH. She is an amazing woman and I am so lucky to have her in my life and I have been her rock.
@@stevenspitzer8767 I couldn't be here without you 🥰
The pervert vibes i get everytime i hear about the disfellowship room of shame and how the sex parts are mostly what they wanna hear about. Yukk
Great video 👍🤩😍Enjoy your freedom and your critical thinking skills. You are a very smart woman cheers 🥂😁
we were taught to fight back to a rape; i was in a robbery situation when i was young and the person with the gun told me to lie down and the only thing that went thru my mind was to resist, so i ran and luckily i lived through it
I did enjoy the interview.
Schofield Barracks, HI. I was there from 2012-2015.
Small world Garrett! 🌎 😁 where did you live specifically? We ended up in housing on Wheeler Air Field.
@@cherieclark-spitzer8449 I stayed off base in Aiea. I was single, a SSG, didn't want to live close enough for a "hey you" detail and got AT&T because they had the worst cell service. Was a medic in the 57th MP, under the 8th MP Brigade and while I had great Soldiers, that was an odd unit. My local company.was pretty good, the Brigade wasn't. I went from 2 deployments with a medical unit and then 2 deployments with Infantry, to the MPs. After coming from Infantry, going to the MPs felt at first like I worked for the enemy.
Christ very specifically commands his followers/disciples to love him more than their parents/children. That's what we generally call narcissism.
OH the narcissism is strong with these 2 (my parents)
So right you are!
Fantastic point Lloyd on the two witnesses rule for children but not for adults again more proof of how twisted this religion is and the complete and utter hypocrisy!
Weird, my first df was in 2013. And I too lost my job Jan 1 2020. Must have been something in the water during those times lol
Man, when she started talking about not being able to get past that first layer of feelings (due to indoctrination) hit hard.
53:50
I don't know if anyone else had this issue, but I kept checking out at the persistent euphemisms. "Making bad choices" doesn't share the story, especially if the person is still steeped in the cult lingo. Maybe I'd agree that there were a lot of bad choices in there, maybe I wouldn't. But I can't know if it's just swept under the rug of euphemism (hard drugs or pot? alcoholism or a few beers? unsafe sex or premarital sex? S&M orgies or dinner parties? trusting untrustworthy people? - the choice to betray my trust is _theirs_ ). So I just found, "I don't know what she's talking about" and couldn't keep watching.
But I'm so glad she got out and didn't raise her daughter in it. I hope she gets to the point where she doesn't have so much shame about the past that she can't talk about it. (Not that she necessarily will want to share that on TH-cam when she does. Just I felt that the euphemisms were motivated by the same thing as calling JW "the Truth" -- habit and programming.)
At several parts of this interview I felt like you were talking about me.
I'm sorry to hear that but I hope you keep pushing through! You're worth it!🥰
Ugh all they wanted to talk about in the judicial meeting was wether or not two consenting adults potentially shared an intimate moment, when she’s asking them for help…Idk how she didn’t just call them sleezballs and storm out of the meeting
Thank u Cherie for sharing with us and I’m so sorry for all u had to go through but this is typical of most jw complete hypocrites
They acted just like Jesus did when speaking to apostate Jews, right? I'm really sorry for what you've been through....horrific.
Feeling like you Cherie, i'm agnostic. I think there is something but i don't think human can know what it is
One thing I did was to read the Gospels without wt. it is such a game changer. Try starting with the book of John and pray for understanding.
@@ckelly5141 it took me years to finally buy a Bible not produced by WBTS. It's been a game changer! Have you seen Lloyd's videos on doctored scriptures. Wow!🤯
@maria martin I feel you so much with this. I'm literally figuring out my spirituality everyday. 😆 I definitely feel like there's things we will just never understand but there's also a lot of evidence pertaining to higher powers if we're open to that. If you ever need a buddy for the journey ahead, I'm here for you 🥰
@Cherie. No, I have not watched that one yet. I left jw’s after 38 years baptized in Dec.2020. I left alone. All my family is still in but I have never been so happy in my life despite the adversities. I now know that I have a real Christian faith that is relationship based and not based on a denomination or cult.
@Cherie. Sorry, I forgot to comment on the Bible. Yes there are so many excellent translations out there. Right now I am using the CSB but it is so good to compare! I could also suggest downloading The Blue Letter Bible on your smartphone or tablet. Then, no one will be able to pull the wool over your eyes when you can check words or phrases in Greek or Hebrew. Happy reading and studying!🙂