I would have to say that the gambeson would be my favourite armour. I'm not at this time a soldier or police officer and would probably not have been one in the middle ages either but having a gambeson for protection when travelling seems like a good idea. Easy to wear, cheap and reasonably effective are all traits I'd look for in somethig I'd wear every day while going about my business.
I am a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, portraying a 14th Century English Archer. I found this video to be very informative. Archers from my time period most often wore aketons/gambesons as their primary armor, with only the weallthiest able to afford a layer of maile over it. My list of preference (when actually *wearing* armor: 1: Chainmaile (beautiful armor) 2: Aketon (cheap and effective, freedom of movement, handsome appearance) 3: Plate (gorgeous, but too expensive and restrictive IMO) Thank you for sharing this video with us!
+Elijah Watt if you want a youtube video look at deadliest warrior episode were they compare Joan of Arc with William the Conqurer. I think they pretty good job comparing chain mail with plate in that episode.
+Josiah Mann you mean the type of videos that get debunked by Metatron? :p beside he's already demonstrated that plate still allowed the wearer to be very mobile and it didn't weight as much as many people make it out to be.
I own a gambeson, and i have to say i am very fond of it. it does work to dampen blows rather effectivelly, and it doesnt cut your mobility all too much. also i find it makes you look larger and more intimidating, especially ones with sleeves.
NO NO NO!!! and NO! if you put your mail under your aketon, the mail WILL CORRODE much faster than outside, regardless of heavy rain. because you SWEAT, and your sweat is HIGHLY CORROSIVE, no match to the rain water.
still makes no sense, Alberto. if i do all the same and switch places: mail, gambeson i will get better energy dissipation, and protect my gambeson from cats.
Cloth is seriously underestimated when it comes to resisting cuts. Just try cutting through a simple kitchen towel when it's backed by something cushion-like.
yes I absolutely agree with you, cloth is very underestimated, I noticed that on the internet so that's why I made that statement about it's resistance to cut/slash in the video :D
I'm a fan of gambesons. I have made an imitation of a gambeson out of quilted cotton that I'm rather satisfied with, seeing as its made for looks and not for wearing underneath actual armour. When the day finally comes though, when I'll seriously consider acquiring plate armour I'll definitely get a good gambeson to wear underneath. And by that I mean the later type, maybe from the 1600s. That's also a topic to cover; the historical development of the gambeson as plate armour became a thing. As far as I've learned, it went from a multilayered cloth armour that could stop sword cuts to a thinner, practical and comfortable piece of clothing to wear underneath the actual armor, and they added arming points and maille gussets.
Salve Metatron! I have been enjoying your videos and was wondering, will you ever make any videos on Medieval Roman (Byzantine) armor, weaponry, culture, etc? thanks!
What about wearing aketon+mail+full plate together? by the way if I was asked about my favourite armor I would say: 1.chainmail 2.plate 3.this or any kind of leathar armor :)
scarecrow gamer Not historical, by the time full-plate was created plate armour would have been substituted by an arming doublet with the mail only in the important places. But before the full suit of armour yes that woul be the pattern.
I greatly enjoy the gambeson for it's affordability, decently easy maintenance, and coat-like style (especially the longer ones). I can also put my sewing skills to use if I felt like making one.
My favorite armor personally (being an SCA fighter and other groups that use blunted steel) is Lorica Segmantata. I find I still have full range of movement, and good protection from cuts, stabs, blunt force trauma, and projectiles (with the acceptation of the armpits, but I have yet to get hit there.)
Aw man! You started out the video wearing the item of discussion! I always look forward to the end of the video where you don your equipment. In other news: great segment as always, Mr. Tron, keep it up (I know you intend to)!
ahah don't worry wearing time will be back for my other videos ;) with the aketon I just liked the image too much xD But it's not the only video I will make about it there will be video of aketon in conjuction with mail and aketon in conjuction with plate in those videos there will be wearing time :D thank you very much :D I will soon post more videos, today I am filming again :D
VIDEO SUGGESTION ON ARMOUR: Hey, just curious about greek hop light armour. In it's era did it stand up to the weapons of the time? Seen a few poor-average vids done on it. but nothing I would like to draw much conclusion from. Also did the Spartans (as professional solders) have different armour? and was the linen armour standard across Greece? Basically curious about the armour used by greeks from the period of King Xerxes failed invasion to Alexander the great eras. Many thanks if you can make the time to do this video suggestion. :-)
Really good overview of the use of the gambeson. I've worn a Churburg #13 style breastplate over a padded gambeson and I can't even notice the weight. I've seen manuscript illustration of gambesons over what is likely breastplates, so wonder why they seem to favor the latter.
it with that one has a gambeson of your armor to prevent it from rusting, but in your video about the care of your equipment, you said that the constant friction between the rings prevent rust
Seems like it'd keep you nice and warm on campaign, particularly through snowy regions such as crossing mountains, although one would assume that on very hot days (particularly around the Mediterranean) soldiers would get overheated very quickly. Were gambesons used by other cultures as well or was it strictly a Medieval/Dark Age European thing? Also, are the armpits missing from yours? I've seen plenty of gambesons without armpits because the stiff material restricts mobility otherwise.
Yes the armpit are missing from mine aswell and it does keep you quite warm infact the other day was quite cold and I wore it infront of my pc lol. It was also used in the middle east but I think that's as far as it goes although we could say that the idea of wearing some thick layers of clothing underneath armour was basically universal wherever armour was present.
Actually, gambeson is the only kind of armor i've had an opportunity to wear. And my impressions are positive. It really is lightweight, actually it felt lighter than my leather jacket, both when donned and in hands. Didn't have the opportunity to measure it against cuts, but it deflected steel training sword hits quite effectively.
I just ordered a set of Lorcia Segmentata - would you recommend wearing gambeson underneath it for extra protection/padding and coverage of the arms, butt, lower abs & genitals? I feel like the armor in itself won't be sufficient for protection in HEMA/sparring, which involves full contact with training weapons, and even some demonstration with actual weapons, such as sharpened daggers and hunting knives.
Hello and thank you for commenting. Well the thin is that if you want to be really historical the Romans didn't wear gambesons underneath th Lorica Segmentata (or Laminata), but only wore normal clothing and a scarf to protect the neck from chafing. So my advise would be to wear some thinck clothing or a couple of layers of normal clothing (vest/Roman vest) and then put on your lorica. I have one you can find a video about Lorica Segmentata on my channel, it's not that heavy particularly if you compare it to hamata. And for the protection...well you should have your scutum for that, so I would go for full historical if I were you ;) Hope this helps and thanks for watching
Metatron Thanks for the reply. Ah, but I don't really care about historical accuracy as far as clothing/armor goes... just whatever is practical. I'm mixing Lorcia with a 15th Century Italian Barbute Helm and some kind of Gauntlets. At that point my arms and genitals would still be exposed - and I think thick gambeson would be enough protection for that (I don't need much). I have a medium sized homewade wooden circular shield, and am considering buying a Scutum - but I'm a college student so I have to do this all on a budget - needs only basis. I guess the question is, would it be "comfortable" to wear gambeson underneath that armor? and I would need to get something that doesn't restrict the movements of my arms/shoulders too much.
So people wearing the aketon is kind of like people wearing military camo like crye multicam who arent in the military? also couldn't you wear gambeson mail AND plate?
Yes you could but that wold be rather uncomfortable. What would be worn would be a thinner version of the gambeson called an arming jacket or an arming doublet. This wouldn't be much for protection, more so to make the armor comfortable. Then you would wear mail however in most of Europe that would only be in places the plate doesn't cover. Italians still wore full mail shirts though for unknown reasons. And then the plate came on top of that.
I'm interested in how it was constructed, how many layers it used and how they were put together and how well they protected. I'm also wondering if the Italian merchants didn't wear gambesons for regular self protection.
Interesting but I would have thought sleeve length would have been more useful just above the wrist not just above the elbow it looks wrong on you, no protection to lower arm at all. Can you tell me how many layers the Gambeson has please, and are the 4 leather straps and buckles in front authentic, does not look medieval? oh the strap ends seem loose no loops to hold ends. like your vids, I would like to see more about this type of "armour" please it is very interesting. as this must have been worn by "everybody" for centuries.
I have never worn armor of medevil or renaissance origin. When I can afford to buy a suit, I believe I will purchase a gumbenson over fitted mail. Did the "Vikings" use a form of padding under their mail armor?
A long sleeved one would be better, but when I use the short sleeved one I still wear my full armour without problems, but I do recomend to wear something with long sleeves regarthless, as metal and skin should never be put together, to avoid chafing. Also the best situation for plate armour would still be an arming doublet, and in addition a skirt of mail if you want to wear armour the "Italian way". ;)
I've never worn armor but I would assume that the order you put it on in would be linen tunic, gambeson, chain mail. That just sounds right to me is that historically correct?
Anyone have recommendations on the best place to get medieval clothing (1150-1335AD) for men (English), women (Iberian) and children that also doesn't look out of place in the modern world? I was thinking that footwear like the following could suit (whilst not necessarily being perfect) Men: Sandals, Espadrilles, Ropes Sandals, Empire Sandals, Leather Thongs, Menorcan Sandals, Gladiator Sandals, Clogs, Monk Strap, Moccasins, Woven Sandals, Suede Loafer, Chukka Boots, Chelsea boots, Plimsolls, Cuban Heel Chelsea Boots, Chukka Desert Boot, Driving Shoes, Women: Strappy Tie-up Sandals, Knotted Suede Toe Post Sandal, Cross Strap flat sandals, Raffia double strap slide sandals, woven leather tie leg sandal, Mules, Clogs, Over the Knee Boots, Ballet Flats, Lace Up Knee High Boots, Stirrup Boots, Slouch Boot, Desert Lace Up Shoes, Cuban heel western Chelsea boot with buckle detail. Likewise, Quilted Clothing (like Quilted Sweatshirt, Quilted Puffer Coat, Quilted Coat, Quilted Tracksuit Pants, Quilted Tracksuit Top, Quilted Jumper) could suffice for Civilian Gambeson. I’m also thinking that Tunics (Knee, Cocktail, Midi or Maxi Length), Leggings, Tights, Long Sleeved V Neck Shirt, Tank Top, Henley Shirt, Track Pants, Hoodie, T-Shirt with Notch Neck, Driving Gloves, Suede Gloves, Leather Gloves could be used. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I've been looking for the answer to that question for about an hour now. Since no one more informed has chimed in, I'll share what I've found. I'm reading a book called Knight: The Warrior and World of Chivalry by Robert Jones. It's a research book that covers medieval knightly mindset, armor, tactics, and so on. In the chapter regarding arms and armor, he specifies that the aketon goes *under* the armor while the gambeson goes *over* the armor. Of course, any quick Google search sees everyone everywhere using the words interchangeably. As far as I can tell, the two pieces are made the exact same way for the same purpose. But here's something else I found on Wikipedia: "Although they are thought to have been used in Europe much earlier, gambesons underwent a revolution from their first proven use in the late 11th and early 12th centuries as an item of armour that simply facilitated the wearing of mail to an item of independent armour popular amongst infantry." So maybe when it was first used to be the cushion under the mail, it was called the aketon. And then maybe after this revolution, they had a new name. (And if I'm wrong, I would appreciate someone correcting me.)
+deano bandit aketon/gambeson rarely had chainmail integrated with it. Aketons/gambesons were quilted or stuffed with "tow". They came in a variety of thicknesses, with the thinner variants being used as padding along with other types of armor, and thicker variations being used alone as body armor.
My favourite armour is first the Italian plate, (amazing for mounted knights), then the English plate (comfortable for fighting on foot, pair it with a poleaxe and you are beast), and the gothic and maximilian as a good in-between. As looks are conserned i think the Italian is the most imposing
Glad to hear :D Yes I have always been constantly changing my mind as I really like both the Italian armour and the Gothic armour it's a difficul call isn't it? But yes I would probably say I also prefere the Italian one but then again...I might be influenced someway by my nationality xD ahah
Metatron So what? Its always good to go local hahaha. I like the bigger pauldrons and elbow guards, they give more overlapping surface. But what convinced me further was when I watched a video called "dressing in steel" from the Metropolitan museum of art. It showed an armor smith doning his armour, and he explained about a very interesting point. The Italian armour retained for a longer period the upper and lower parts of the breastplate separate and connected at the front by a strap. This allowed for bigger flexibility and again, overlapping layers of plate. If my life depended on it, Italian is the safest bet!
ShaNagmaImmuru Yes it's true we indeed kept the two layers for extra protection. I really like the asymmetrical pauldrons :) I am not a big fan of the English one, big pauldrons for great warriors :D
To me plate armor always seemed kind of unnecessary and overly protective to the point it's detrimental. My favorite armor is maille and lamellar armor, gambesons seem like an essential item to me. As you can imagine from my armor preferences the Varangians are some of my favorite warriors!
Erm, very minor complaint. When you were showing the aketon it was too dark to see the channels. Also, a lot of troops were simply too poor to afford anything heavier than a gambeson.
I have quite a few retailers and armouries of trust I have been using for a very long time. This particular item here the aketon was very cheap indeed, a good site for quite good things is www.dein-larp-shop.de you may find the gambeson I wear there. I have only recently started using their site but they are efficient and reasonable in price so if you don't have a huge budget it could be worth to have a look ;) I also have a friend who owns a armoury here in Italy in my city and I sometimes buy from him too but he doesn't do online sellings just yet so some of my items you won't find as they are a bit unique but most you can find in that site and also if you just google armerie san marino you will find a milion shops for these kind of things. Also Avalon and zonacontrollata have nice things, google those too :D If you have a budget you might want to have a look at other sites which use more expencive kinds of steel, there are plenty on the internet. Oh and I also buy somethimes from armories from Rome, you find some there too on the internet. (Obviously I go there directly).
When you say it got the most popular in the 15th century that means not everyone was wearing it. Yet I usually hear about gambeson or gambeson and mail or gambeson and plate armour. And leather armour is mostly fantasy stuff. What were the others wearing?
+germanvisitor2 I think if I was talking about norther Italy I ment to say it got more popular among the non military status. It became fashonable for people who wene't combatant, whereas before that only warrior would wear gambesons.
I was under the impression that wearing mail under your aketon was a bit dangerous since if you armour doesn't hold up and you get wounded the rings of the mail that busted open could enter the wound and make it worse.
You are absolutely right, but you should imagine it still being worn over a few layers of thick clothing, never directly in contact with your skin even in those cases shown by iconography.
Man. I always think: ''If I was going to a battle and I had to buy my things, and I'm not that rich, what would I choose?'' It results in : Crossbow,and some bolts for it, a shield, a knife ( A sword if I had the money,or even a spear,why not?), a cheap helmet and a gambeson ( and a mail armor if I had the money,too). That would cost me a lot but I hope I could survive the battle and never more involve me in any other hahaha. Can you make a video on cheap helmets that a ''newbie'' would buy? Or even a cheap weapons that a ''newbie'' would buy?
Lucas Grutzmacher well it would probably be something with internal padding (preferably removable for washing or something that doesn't need to be washed) with a round top and either angular or dangling sides to protect your face and also either disperse the force of a horazontal strike or glance a virtical strike away preferably made out a sturdy metal but if that's not possible just look for something sturdy thick enough to not be cut or punctured easily or just get hooded mail and a leather helmet (thick) and try to use your shield to not get hit in the head if your armor is good enough your body can take more blows
If you were a peasant I doubt you could afford a real crossbow made for war. Sure you could go with a hunting one however that would be absolutely useless in real battle. What you should buy first and foremost is a spear and a shield. The spear is easily the best weapon, especially when fighting in formation. A shield for obvious reasons. Then you'd buy a helmet since your head is vulnerable. After that you would probably look for some body armor (in the form of a gambeson, aketon etc). If you were wealthy you could buy some mail.
Typically, they're made of linen which would be decently light. Although it would likely be pretty warm in say, a desert, discomfort is less important than protection I'd imagine.
Is there a leg part of a gambeson? Do you wear padded gambeson-style pants for leggings, or? I never see people who show off a gambeson wearing pants to it!
It's because you don't need to defend your legs really, not to the importance that you would spend money on it (and potentially wear uncomfortable padding). Thick pants are not really very comfortable.
I've been wearing (a cheaper version of) this, while larping and while it did provide the weight distribution etc, I've found that the long sleeved one, was not that good, as for elbow restriction and overall comfort, when using arm guards. Too poor for full plate :D
yes I prefer the short sleeved ones myself for mobility. Yes I understand, the prices for plate armour I have found on the internet market would be around 800 to 1000 euros minimum if you want the full one up to over 30000 euros for very expencive ones but then again you could buy just a breast plate, you can find those for very cheap prices, like 60 o 70 euros front and back steel plate if you don't mind caring for non-stainless
Metatron What do you think of this Kettle helmet my friend? I think it looks quite good for the price.www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNH2212&name=XIII+Century+Kettle+Helm
Fredward Jones mmm I think you can find better ones for low price. With Helmets you need to choose if you want quality stuff and pay a lot or cheap stuff. Sometimes some cheap helmets are nice, don't get me wrong some of my helmets are quite cheap, but if it really has to cost it needs to be worth it. I would have a look around a bit more and if you don't like the cheaper ones than get this one, it's not bad. I also personally don't particularly like the kettle helmet but that's just personal taste ;)
Metatron They are probably my favourite helmet just because of how it was the common soldier's helmet. I also like this one because it is 14 gauge steel which is thicker than the flimsy 18 gauge most producers use.
is it to warm, i mean, i imagine people on middle ages on the italian summer wearing this all day, isn't' it a bit unconfortable? well, in Brazil at least i think it would be very unconfortable to wear during the medieval expositions in São Paulo, so, if you can answare Metatron, there is a thing that looks like a real aketon but will not cook me alive inside :P? maaaan i know i already said, but, you are awesome, i learn a lot with your videos and improve my english listening skills(no, i'm not making fun of your accent, i'm just getting out my confort zone listening someone with another accent that isn't the american, sorry if i was rude).
Hey Victor thank you for watching and for your comment. Ahaha no offence taken it's true I always tell my students to listen to many different accents to improve their English and yes mine is definitely not an American accent as I lived in England when I was very young :D Yes it is warm, but not so much to become dangerous in the summer but yes it definitely wasn't very pleasant for medieval people in summer, but then again there are two things to consider 1) it's an armour so it's better to be hot but alive than to be cool and dead xD 2) Summers in the middleages probably were a lot fresher than they are now, because of the whole hozone layer situation, smog, pollution and such. And yes there are several types you can find, thinner ones will be fresher so you could buy one of those if the heat is an issue I am glad you like the videos, please don't forget to share them :D The bigger the comunity the more fun we will all have discussing about medieval things :) there are many more coming up I should be able to get two more uploaded by this weekend so don't forget to check :D
Metatron Hey, I thinked now, people in medieval ages would take a shower once a week no? And I just imagined how a warrior would smell after a battle or even a guard would smell with the warm armor. Man that sucks huehuehueuhe Also Brazilian here o/
A medieval tradesman or merchant wearing gambeson could also be compared to a comparable modern individual wearing the "gear" of his or her favorite sports team as the athletes could be considered the modern knight. sites.google.com/site/grreference/
You don't block with your body. You block with a sword or shield preferably. With shorter sleeves, it would also facilitate the use of gauntlets if one could afford them. The shorter sleeves would assist in wearing armor over the top of the gambeson.
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I would have to say that the gambeson would be my favourite armour. I'm not at this time a soldier or police officer and would probably not have been one in the middle ages either but having a gambeson for protection when travelling seems like a good idea. Easy to wear, cheap and reasonably effective are all traits I'd look for in somethig I'd wear every day while going about my business.
Light on your armor means light on your feet. Smart.
I am a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, portraying a 14th Century English Archer. I found this video to be very informative. Archers from my time period most often wore aketons/gambesons as their primary armor, with only the weallthiest able to afford a layer of maile over it.
My list of preference (when actually *wearing* armor:
1: Chainmaile (beautiful armor)
2: Aketon (cheap and effective, freedom of movement, handsome appearance)
3: Plate (gorgeous, but too expensive and restrictive IMO)
Thank you for sharing this video with us!
+Edmund of Penyngton Hey Edmund, thank you very much I am glad you like my video ^^ and thank you for watching and commenting :D
Don't mean to be rude at all but can you explain how plate is restrictive?
+Elijah Watt if you want a youtube video look at deadliest warrior episode were they compare Joan of Arc with William the Conqurer. I think they pretty good job comparing chain mail with plate in that episode.
+Josiah Mann you mean the type of videos that get debunked by Metatron? :p beside he's already demonstrated that plate still allowed the wearer to be very mobile and it didn't weight as much as many people make it out to be.
plate armor is not restrictive at all if it fits your body
My mail shirt was indeed surprisingly light when worn over a gambeson. Wonderful video series.
I own a gambeson, and i have to say i am very fond of it. it does work to dampen blows rather effectivelly, and it doesnt cut your mobility all too much. also i find it makes you look larger and more intimidating, especially ones with sleeves.
I'm actually sewing a gambeson while watching this. ^^
+Zbynďa Gazdík NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD!!
NO!!!
1 for me please. pretty please with a cherry on top :) :D
NO NO NO!!! and NO!
if you put your mail under your aketon, the mail WILL CORRODE much faster than outside, regardless of heavy rain.
because you SWEAT, and your sweat is HIGHLY CORROSIVE, no match to the rain water.
Very true. Also it hurts more to wear mail under. Rather than over.
Silly Sad yup and like modern armor to. use the soft to cussing the hard.
absolutely! talking about impact protection, you need some soft material close to your skin anyway. it is all about ENERGY DISSIPATION.
Gotta think about layers. It's possible to wear tunics or padded garments under the mail and then a gambeson over the mail.
still makes no sense, Alberto.
if i do all the same and switch places: mail, gambeson
i will get better energy dissipation, and protect my gambeson from cats.
Snape talking about muggle armour...
Cloth is seriously underestimated when it comes to resisting cuts. Just try cutting through a simple kitchen towel when it's backed by something cushion-like.
yes I absolutely agree with you, cloth is very underestimated, I noticed that on the internet so that's why I made that statement about it's resistance to cut/slash in the video :D
@@metatronyt bu-but, katana can cut through. anything RiGhT?
Amazing piece of equipment. SImple and ingenious
I'm a fan of gambesons. I have made an imitation of a gambeson out of quilted cotton that I'm rather satisfied with, seeing as its made for looks and not for wearing underneath actual armour. When the day finally comes though, when I'll seriously consider acquiring plate armour I'll definitely get a good gambeson to wear underneath. And by that I mean the later type, maybe from the 1600s. That's also a topic to cover; the historical development of the gambeson as plate armour became a thing. As far as I've learned, it went from a multilayered cloth armour that could stop sword cuts to a thinner, practical and comfortable piece of clothing to wear underneath the actual armor, and they added arming points and maille gussets.
Salve Metatron! I have been enjoying your videos and was wondering, will you ever make any videos on Medieval Roman (Byzantine) armor, weaponry, culture, etc? thanks!
Another great upload. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks friend :) more videos coming this weekend :D
Looks bad ass I would wear it.
What about wearing aketon+mail+full plate together?
by the way if I was asked about my favourite armor I would say:
1.chainmail
2.plate
3.this or any kind of leathar armor
:)
scarecrow gamer Not historical, by the time full-plate was created plate armour would have been substituted by an arming doublet with the mail only in the important places. But before the full suit of armour yes that woul be the pattern.
I greatly enjoy the gambeson for it's affordability, decently easy maintenance, and coat-like style (especially the longer ones). I can also put my sewing skills to use if I felt like making one.
My favorite armor personally (being an SCA fighter and other groups that use blunted steel) is Lorica Segmantata. I find I still have full range of movement, and good protection from cuts, stabs, blunt force trauma, and projectiles (with the acceptation of the armpits, but I have yet to get hit there.)
Aw man! You started out the video wearing the item of discussion! I always look forward to the end of the video where you don your equipment.
In other news: great segment as always, Mr. Tron, keep it up (I know you intend to)!
ahah don't worry wearing time will be back for my other videos ;) with the aketon I just liked the image too much xD But it's not the only video I will make about it there will be video of aketon in conjuction with mail and aketon in conjuction with plate in those videos there will be wearing time :D
thank you very much :D I will soon post more videos, today I am filming again :D
Nice video, thanks for sharing......
VIDEO SUGGESTION ON ARMOUR: Hey, just curious about greek hop light armour. In it's era did it stand up to the weapons of the time? Seen a few poor-average vids done on it. but nothing I would like to draw much conclusion from. Also did the Spartans (as professional solders) have different armour? and was the linen armour standard across Greece? Basically curious about the armour used by greeks from the period of King Xerxes failed invasion to Alexander the great eras. Many thanks if you can make the time to do this video suggestion. :-)
Really good overview of the use of the gambeson. I've worn a Churburg #13 style breastplate over a padded gambeson and I can't even notice the weight. I've seen manuscript illustration of gambesons over what is likely breastplates, so wonder why they seem to favor the latter.
When gambeson became popular as a fashion item, did people wear them in various colours?
I'm curious about the function of the buckles. Do they just close the front, or do they function to cinch the garment as well?
mostly they close the front yes, atleast in this model ;)
it with that one has a gambeson of your armor to prevent it from rusting, but in your video about the care of your equipment, you said that the constant friction between the rings prevent rust
Seems like it'd keep you nice and warm on campaign, particularly through snowy regions such as crossing mountains, although one would assume that on very hot days (particularly around the Mediterranean) soldiers would get overheated very quickly.
Were gambesons used by other cultures as well or was it strictly a Medieval/Dark Age European thing? Also, are the armpits missing from yours? I've seen plenty of gambesons without armpits because the stiff material restricts mobility otherwise.
Yes the armpit are missing from mine aswell and it does keep you quite warm infact the other day was quite cold and I wore it infront of my pc lol.
It was also used in the middle east but I think that's as far as it goes although we could say that the idea of wearing some thick layers of clothing underneath armour was basically universal wherever armour was present.
the chinese liked to use them
Actually, gambeson is the only kind of armor i've had an opportunity to wear. And my impressions are positive. It really is lightweight, actually it felt lighter than my leather jacket, both when donned and in hands. Didn't have the opportunity to measure it against cuts, but it deflected steel training sword hits quite effectively.
Nothing is cooler than a heraldry-covered knight in chainmail carrying a heater shield and wearing a great helm.
I just ordered a set of Lorcia Segmentata - would you recommend wearing gambeson underneath it for extra protection/padding and coverage of the arms, butt, lower abs & genitals?
I feel like the armor in itself won't be sufficient for protection in HEMA/sparring, which involves full contact with training weapons, and even some demonstration with actual weapons, such as sharpened daggers and hunting knives.
Hello and thank you for commenting. Well the thin is that if you want to be really historical the Romans didn't wear gambesons underneath th Lorica Segmentata (or Laminata), but only wore normal clothing and a scarf to protect the neck from chafing. So my advise would be to wear some thinck clothing or a couple of layers of normal clothing (vest/Roman vest) and then put on your lorica. I have one you can find a video about Lorica Segmentata on my channel, it's not that heavy particularly if you compare it to hamata.
And for the protection...well you should have your scutum for that, so I would go for full historical if I were you ;)
Hope this helps and thanks for watching
Metatron Thanks for the reply.
Ah, but I don't really care about historical accuracy as far as clothing/armor goes... just whatever is practical. I'm mixing Lorcia with a 15th Century Italian Barbute Helm and some kind of Gauntlets. At that point my arms and genitals would still be exposed - and I think thick gambeson would be enough protection for that (I don't need much).
I have a medium sized homewade wooden circular shield, and am considering buying a Scutum - but I'm a college student so I have to do this all on a budget - needs only basis.
I guess the question is, would it be "comfortable" to wear gambeson underneath that armor? and I would need to get something that doesn't restrict the movements of my arms/shoulders too much.
So people wearing the aketon is kind of like people wearing military camo like crye multicam who arent in the military? also couldn't you wear gambeson mail AND plate?
Yes you could but that wold be rather uncomfortable.
What would be worn would be a thinner version of the gambeson called an arming jacket or an arming doublet. This wouldn't be much for protection, more so to make the armor comfortable. Then you would wear mail however in most of Europe that would only be in places the plate doesn't cover.
Italians still wore full mail shirts though for unknown reasons.
And then the plate came on top of that.
I'm interested in how it was constructed, how many layers it used and how they were put together and how well they protected. I'm also wondering if the Italian merchants didn't wear gambesons for regular self protection.
Interesting but I would have thought sleeve length would have been more useful just above the wrist not just above the elbow it looks wrong on you, no protection to lower arm at all.
Can you tell me how many layers the Gambeson has please, and are the 4 leather straps and buckles in front authentic, does not look medieval? oh the strap ends seem loose no loops to hold ends.
like your vids, I would like to see more about this type of "armour" please it is very interesting. as this must have been worn by "everybody" for centuries.
bel video come al solito, grazie! :)
grazie a te Stefano :D
Ciao! finalmente qualcun altro che supporta la possibilità realistica della maglia sotto il gambeson :D da dove viene l'iconografia? ^^
I have never worn armor of medevil or renaissance origin. When I can afford to buy a suit, I believe I will purchase a gumbenson over fitted mail. Did the "Vikings" use a form of padding under their mail armor?
What would you consider a good way to represent the effectiveness of a gambeson against weapons of the thirteenth century?
Is a half sleeve gambeson compatible with plate armor I ordered or does it need to have full sleeves to work? If yes, which is better suited?
A long sleeved one would be better, but when I use the short sleeved one I still wear my full armour without problems, but I do recomend to wear something with long sleeves regarthless, as metal and skin should never be put together, to avoid chafing.
Also the best situation for plate armour would still be an arming doublet, and in addition a skirt of mail if you want to wear armour the "Italian way". ;)
I've never worn armor but I would assume that the order you put it on in would be linen tunic, gambeson, chain mail. That just sounds right to me is that historically correct?
The bottom sword reminds me of Dawnbreaker.
It's the sword of The Kings of Rohan, from Lord of the Rings movies
Was the thing that King Arthur wore in that shoddy recent King Arthur film a gambeson? Cause I got to admit, it looked pretty cool
Anyone have recommendations on the best place to get medieval clothing (1150-1335AD) for men (English), women (Iberian) and children that also doesn't look out of place in the modern world?
I was thinking that footwear like the following could suit (whilst not necessarily being perfect)
Men: Sandals, Espadrilles, Ropes Sandals, Empire Sandals, Leather Thongs, Menorcan Sandals, Gladiator Sandals, Clogs, Monk Strap, Moccasins, Woven Sandals, Suede Loafer, Chukka Boots, Chelsea boots, Plimsolls, Cuban Heel Chelsea Boots, Chukka Desert Boot, Driving Shoes,
Women: Strappy Tie-up Sandals, Knotted Suede Toe Post Sandal, Cross Strap flat sandals, Raffia double strap slide sandals, woven leather tie leg sandal, Mules, Clogs, Over the Knee Boots, Ballet Flats, Lace Up Knee High Boots, Stirrup Boots, Slouch Boot, Desert Lace Up Shoes, Cuban heel western Chelsea boot with buckle detail.
Likewise, Quilted Clothing (like Quilted Sweatshirt, Quilted Puffer Coat, Quilted Coat, Quilted Tracksuit Pants, Quilted Tracksuit Top, Quilted Jumper) could suffice for Civilian Gambeson.
I’m also thinking that Tunics (Knee, Cocktail, Midi or Maxi Length), Leggings, Tights, Long Sleeved V Neck Shirt, Tank Top, Henley Shirt, Track Pants, Hoodie, T-Shirt with Notch Neck, Driving Gloves, Suede Gloves, Leather Gloves could be used.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
For a gambeson worn under armor, how many layers of linen would it have? 20?
10-15 probably. Don't want it too thick
Just by now i can´t remember if I have asked that before, probably I may have, but what is the difference between an Aketon and a Gambeson?
I've been looking for the answer to that question for about an hour now. Since no one more informed has chimed in, I'll share what I've found.
I'm reading a book called Knight: The Warrior and World of Chivalry by Robert Jones. It's a research book that covers medieval knightly mindset, armor, tactics, and so on. In the chapter regarding arms and armor, he specifies that the aketon goes *under* the armor while the gambeson goes *over* the armor. Of course, any quick Google search sees everyone everywhere using the words interchangeably. As far as I can tell, the two pieces are made the exact same way for the same purpose.
But here's something else I found on Wikipedia:
"Although they are thought to have been used in Europe much earlier, gambesons underwent a revolution from their first proven use in the late 11th and early 12th centuries as an item of armour that simply facilitated the wearing of mail to an item of independent armour popular amongst infantry."
So maybe when it was first used to be the cushion under the mail, it was called the aketon. And then maybe after this revolution, they had a new name.
(And if I'm wrong, I would appreciate someone correcting me.)
Thanks Metatron, I'll post a video on my channel if I get anything from those sites. :)
is it made like a pillow or just multiple layers of cloth?
It has chain, thick cloth, and leather
+deano bandit aketon/gambeson rarely had chainmail integrated with it. Aketons/gambesons were quilted or stuffed with "tow". They came in a variety of thicknesses, with the thinner variants being used as padding along with other types of armor, and thicker variations being used alone as body armor.
Scale, combo of rawhide & bronze, I like the idea of bronze armor.
Could you do a video with you wairing the gambeson with the mail armor over it and with the leather armor over the mail at the same time?
at first I thought u were that butter jelly guy, haha good stuff man
My favourite armour is first the Italian plate, (amazing for mounted knights), then the English plate (comfortable for fighting on foot, pair it with a poleaxe and you are beast), and the gothic and maximilian as a good in-between. As looks are conserned i think the Italian is the most imposing
Glad to hear :D Yes I have always been constantly changing my mind as I really like both the Italian armour and the Gothic armour it's a difficul call isn't it? But yes I would probably say I also prefere the Italian one but then again...I might be influenced someway by my nationality xD ahah
Metatron So what? Its always good to go local hahaha. I like the bigger pauldrons and elbow guards, they give more overlapping surface. But what convinced me further was when I watched a video called "dressing in steel" from the Metropolitan museum of art. It showed an armor smith doning his armour, and he explained about a very interesting point. The Italian armour retained for a longer period the upper and lower parts of the breastplate separate and connected at the front by a strap. This allowed for bigger flexibility and again, overlapping layers of plate. If my life depended on it, Italian is the safest bet!
ShaNagmaImmuru Yes it's true we indeed kept the two layers for extra protection. I really like the asymmetrical pauldrons :) I am not a big fan of the English one, big pauldrons for great warriors :D
good job
My favorite armor is probably the M1A1 Abram Main battle tank.
FerriteCrowe leopard 2
To me plate armor always seemed kind of unnecessary and overly protective to the point it's detrimental. My favorite armor is maille and lamellar armor, gambesons seem like an essential item to me. As you can imagine from my armor preferences the Varangians are some of my favorite warriors!
Erm, very minor complaint. When you were showing the aketon it was too dark to see the channels. Also, a lot of troops were simply too poor to afford anything heavier than a gambeson.
How reasonable would it be to wear gambeson under plate as 'winter' armour?
Metatron where do you get all of your armor and weapons? Also was it cheapish?
I have quite a few retailers and armouries of trust I have been using for a very long time. This particular item here the aketon was very cheap indeed, a good site for quite good things is www.dein-larp-shop.de you may find the gambeson I wear there. I have only recently started using their site but they are efficient and reasonable in price so if you don't have a huge budget it could be worth to have a look ;)
I also have a friend who owns a armoury here in Italy in my city and I sometimes buy from him too but he doesn't do online sellings just yet so some of my items you won't find as they are a bit unique but most you can find in that site and also if you just google armerie san marino you will find a milion shops for these kind of things. Also Avalon and zonacontrollata have nice things, google those too :D
If you have a budget you might want to have a look at other sites which use more expencive kinds of steel, there are plenty on the internet. Oh and I also buy somethimes from armories from Rome, you find some there too on the internet. (Obviously I go there directly).
Metatron oh and castel bayart is a nice one too :)
1 : Aketon
2 : Chainmale
3 : Platearmor
That has to be warm in the winter.
Hello Serverus Snape!
When you say it got the most popular in the 15th century that means not everyone was wearing it. Yet I usually hear about gambeson or gambeson and mail or gambeson and plate armour. And leather armour is mostly fantasy stuff. What were the others wearing?
+germanvisitor2 I think if I was talking about norther Italy I ment to say it got more popular among the non military status. It became fashonable for people who wene't combatant, whereas before that only warrior would wear gambesons.
Metatron
A gambeson is indeed quite stylish.
is there a sewn pattern for the aketon ?
iam intrested in making one myself :-)
You should do a video on Arabic weapons and armor
I was under the impression that wearing mail under your aketon was a bit dangerous since if you armour doesn't hold up and you get wounded the rings of the mail that busted open could enter the wound and make it worse.
You are absolutely right, but you should imagine it still being worn over a few layers of thick clothing, never directly in contact with your skin even in those cases shown by iconography.
Metatron
i thought as much, i was just gonna point it out in case someone didn't know.
Knechtor ok :)
Starts talking about games gambeson immediately reacts
"How much is Shad paying you!?!"
Man. I always think: ''If I was going to a battle and I had to buy my things, and I'm not that rich, what would I choose?''
It results in : Crossbow,and some bolts for it, a shield, a knife ( A sword if I had the money,or even a spear,why not?), a cheap helmet and a gambeson ( and a mail armor if I had the money,too). That would cost me a lot but I hope I could survive the battle and never more involve me in any other hahaha.
Can you make a video on cheap helmets that a ''newbie'' would buy? Or even a cheap weapons that a ''newbie'' would buy?
Lucas Grutzmacher well it would probably be something with internal padding (preferably removable for washing or something that doesn't need to be washed) with a round top and either angular or dangling sides to protect your face and also either disperse the force of a horazontal strike or glance a virtical strike away preferably made out a sturdy metal but if that's not possible just look for something sturdy thick enough to not be cut or punctured easily or just get hooded mail and a leather helmet (thick) and try to use your shield to not get hit in the head if your armor is good enough your body can take more blows
may be wrong but just my best guess
If you were a peasant I doubt you could afford a real crossbow made for war. Sure you could go with a hunting one however that would be absolutely useless in real battle.
What you should buy first and foremost is a spear and a shield. The spear is easily the best weapon, especially when fighting in formation. A shield for obvious reasons.
Then you'd buy a helmet since your head is vulnerable. After that you would probably look for some body armor (in the form of a gambeson, aketon etc). If you were wealthy you could buy some mail.
I would go for crossbow and falchion for up close and personal ^^
How do gambesons hold up in the sun and heat? Are you gonna have a heat stroke or something while wearing it in warm climates lol.
Typically, they're made of linen which would be decently light. Although it would likely be pretty warm in say, a desert, discomfort is less important than protection I'd imagine.
Is there a leg part of a gambeson? Do you wear padded gambeson-style pants for leggings, or? I never see people who show off a gambeson wearing pants to it!
It's because you don't need to defend your legs really, not to the importance that you would spend money on it (and potentially wear uncomfortable padding). Thick pants are not really very comfortable.
Some people might have worn longer gambesons if they felt they needed to protect their legs more effectively.
I really like gambisons but mail is my favourite type of armour.
Veve Leatherman both would make a realistic armour tho
Is that dawnbreaker on your wall?
No, that's Herugrim I think.
I've been wearing (a cheaper version of) this, while larping and while it did provide the weight distribution etc, I've found that the long sleeved one, was not that good, as for elbow restriction and overall comfort, when using arm guards. Too poor for full plate :D
yes I prefer the short sleeved ones myself for mobility. Yes I understand, the prices for plate armour I have found on the internet market would be around 800 to 1000 euros minimum if you want the full one up to over 30000 euros for very expencive ones but then again you could buy just a breast plate, you can find those for very cheap prices, like 60 o 70 euros front and back steel plate if you don't mind caring for non-stainless
Metatron What do you think of this Kettle helmet my friend? I think it looks quite good for the price.www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNH2212&name=XIII+Century+Kettle+Helm
Fredward Jones mmm I think you can find better ones for low price.
With Helmets you need to choose if you want quality stuff and pay a lot or cheap stuff. Sometimes some cheap helmets are nice, don't get me wrong some of my helmets are quite cheap, but if it really has to cost it needs to be worth it.
I would have a look around a bit more and if you don't like the cheaper ones than get this one, it's not bad.
I also personally don't particularly like the kettle helmet but that's just personal taste ;)
Metatron They are probably my favourite helmet just because of how it was the common soldier's helmet. I also like this one because it is 14 gauge steel which is thicker than the flimsy 18 gauge most producers use.
is it to warm, i mean, i imagine people on middle ages on the italian summer wearing this all day, isn't' it a bit unconfortable?
well, in Brazil at least i think it would be very unconfortable to wear during the medieval expositions in São Paulo, so, if you can answare Metatron, there is a thing that looks like a real aketon but will not cook me alive inside :P? maaaan i know i already said, but, you are awesome, i learn a lot with your videos and improve my english listening skills(no, i'm not making fun of your accent, i'm just getting out my confort zone listening someone with another accent that isn't the american, sorry if i was rude).
Hey Victor thank you for watching and for your comment. Ahaha no offence taken it's true I always tell my students to listen to many different accents to improve their English and yes mine is definitely not an American accent as I lived in England when I was very young :D
Yes it is warm, but not so much to become dangerous in the summer but yes it definitely wasn't very pleasant for medieval people in summer, but then again there are two things to consider
1) it's an armour so it's better to be hot but alive than to be cool and dead xD
2) Summers in the middleages probably were a lot fresher than they are now, because of the whole hozone layer situation, smog, pollution and such.
And yes there are several types you can find, thinner ones will be fresher so you could buy one of those if the heat is an issue
I am glad you like the videos, please don't forget to share them :D The bigger the comunity the more fun we will all have discussing about medieval things :)
there are many more coming up I should be able to get two more uploaded by this weekend so don't forget to check :D
Metatron hehe thanks for the answare, i also think that is hundreds of times better be hot but alive.
i'm waiting for updates ^^
Metatron Hey, I thinked now, people in medieval ages would take a shower once a week no?
And I just imagined how a warrior would smell after a battle or even a guard would smell with the warm armor.
Man that sucks huehuehueuhe
Also Brazilian here o/
Pai Me Buffa Buff ahaha indeed the igienic conditions of the people in the middleages was terrible. O.O
ORCRIST!!! THEODINS SWORD!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!! YOU TAUNT MEEEEEEE!!!!!
Teacher Snape?I thought you die in the last episode of Harry Potter?
Ah the lighting! Bad light and dark clothing. You might as well be wearing an invisibility cloak.
Binged video 61
A medieval tradesman or merchant wearing gambeson could also be compared to a comparable modern individual wearing the "gear" of his or her favorite sports team as the athletes could be considered the modern knight.
sites.google.com/site/grreference/
In Puerto Rico it's called a quilted armor.
short sleeve is so dum. U block with those un armed arms. unless I'm missing something
Patrick Martin Ever heard of "Jacksfilms"? Good youtube channel, look up his series " YGS " it'll do you good
You don't block with your body. You block with a sword or shield preferably. With shorter sleeves, it would also facilitate the use of gauntlets if one could afford them. The shorter sleeves would assist in wearing armor over the top of the gambeson.
How can someone watch this?
This guy has no speech or vocal skills.
Shame, wanted to know more about gambenson.