This is why I sold my golf. Got beaten by a naturally aspirated type r in my mk6 golf gti with a tune.. So sold it and got a type R! Eagerly waiting til the day this turbocharged version arrives in AUS
Another myth needs debunked. The Golf didn't start the hot hatch ball rolling. It popularised the idea but was beaten to the market by 5 years by the Autobianchi A112 Abarth. The Renault 5 Alpine and Simca 1100 Ti also beat it. Although it didn't gain a hatch until later, the Alfasud was also championing the notion of a small sporting FWD family car years before the Golf (and it handled better, but don't tell the VW fanatics).
Why did he short shift the Golf GTI at the final straight just couple of seconds before crossing the line? Can't stop thinking that it may have had a small impact on the time
talking about heritage of the gti, Honda type r's have just as much heritage.Think of integra, civic and nsx. They've been doing time attacks and racing around the world for decades now. Gti were never race oriented as much. Ford And Honda over vw anyday
agree considering there have been 7 inclanations of the Golf GTI, only 3 have been genuinely good cars (MK 1,2,5) the MK7 is an car 'they had to do' rather than the real deal, and the public agrees, because they are buying the R instead. Honda have been much more consistent with the R models, especially when price and performance are taken into account.
Exactly. I think the gti's are a bit more premium. But having experienced multiple rides in gtis and various type r's, Honda is just some much more engaging and fun. Not to mention the relaiblity and performance.
andypaul999, I don't think the 'public agrees', because sales show that so far GTI is a bit more popular than the Honda (at least in Europe)... Mk7 is a genuinely brilliant car, and I'm talking from my personal experience too. Iceman7, when they say 'heritage' they don't mean 'racing heritage'. Golf GTI has been around for longer and 'GTI' badge was not supposed to appear on racecars at all, it represents a fun, quick and affordable everyday car. And both, Honda and VW actually represent this brand images. So if I was to use the car for regular track days, than the Civic is faster, more fun and more hardcore. But if I was to use the car for daily driving, I would not even think about any other car than the Golf GTI. It is much more relaxing to drive when you want it to be, its more fuel efficient and practical, it has all the 2016 technology (like the ACC for motorway driving) and yet it can be fun when you want it to be. There is a lot of hatred towards VW, but I've driven and owned many of their cars, including cars like the GTI, and I can not understand the reasons. You just have to understand what these cars are designed to do (be your _everyday_ heroes, I would say) and then you will be able to appreciate them. Mosts hot-hatch tests focus on a few hours of track/B-road driving and so it is often that the more hardcore car wins the test. But every long-term test (and personal experience) shows that cars like Golf GTI are WAY nicer and easier and more enjoyable to own.
I understand what you are saying, and the purpose of these cars. But to me a hot hatch is a sports car, and a sports car is that car you take out in the weekend and have fun with in some twisty roads, listening to the engine and then you can stop and look at it. For me, gti's never provided this sense of sportiness. They are more of beefed up regular hatches designed to be used everyday, whereas the hondas are stripped out and designed to be as exhilarating as a hot hatch can be with the main focus being performance and fun, and to hell with comfort. That i find much more attractive for a 'sports car'.
I think all the German manufacturers like to build their sports cars which can be daily driven. If you look at the regular 911, M3, R8 and so on, they are great sports cars in the performance department but also can be comfy. Some people prefer their sports cars to be all out performance oriented, like say a ferrari.
Unless your buying these cars to go on the track everyday, the gti is the better car to buy. It's better looking, more refined, much nicer interior, and a simple 700 dollar tune will make it faster than a Golf r.
Si Raff Lol how can you say a golf tdi is better than a gti for daily driving and going on nice drives through backcountry roads? And yes, i'd much rather have at least 270 or more hp.
it's funny that everyone is criticising the Type R for the way it looks, but don't moan about the GTI. VW have essentially just riced up the golf for its 40th anniversary with a dodgy turbo map that 'might' give you an extra 30bhp and bolted on a load of eBay body fins. The Type R smashed it and will probably smash the RS Focus and Golf R around a track too. The Honda is the cutting edge of FWD performance, and for that, it can look however it bloody wants.
Me, I went for the Civic in GT form the golf looks like every other one were the Civic stands out like the old Ford RS of the 80s did I like to think getting older is mandatory but growing up is optional
sinngsg9 This exact Civic Type R featured in the video inarguably looks abominable. If it was in black it would be much more compelling, but still too ricey. All the aero parts are just overdone.
First of all , the gti is clubsport and not a clubsport s.. The power and the settings between two GTI is very diferrent. I want to see a comparison in this truck the GTI clubsport S vs Type R.
If you're after about absolute track performance get a Megane RS Trophy. The Cupra is capable but it suffers from ultra boring looks, dull interior, and terrible depreciation, when you spend 30k on a car you expect more than just performance, you want it to make you feel special every time you look at it or sit in the driver's seat. The Cupra fails miserably in that department. The GTI Clubsport however looks amazing and is way more upmarket and refined (yet a fully daily driver without silly hard suspension) than any of its rivals and that's it's strongest point. At last VW decided to make a really special Golf.
Thats what i always thought. My Civic type R which i just handed in at the dealer for a new CTR had much more depriciation then a Megane RS of the same year.I also have to nore that the Meg RS is a freakin good car.
What are you trying to say? Even in the video you can see that the Gti is not sporty enough in the corners. You can see by eye that it drives slower through thr corners. And they used the DSG version which us NOT same fast as manual. DSG or generally double clutch/automatic gearboxes are much faster. Everytime you shift you loose 0.1-0.2s in a manual. And i dont think that they only drive 1 lap. They drive many laps and take the best.
I don't know why but I really don't like the Civic's looks. That bodyshape is weird, makes the car profile look like a shoe. Some might say that the Golf looks boring, but to me it looks really good and its design is tasteful and isn't overdone. Also, Golf gets better technology, such as satnav, ACC etc. Which still matters for a hot-hatch. So the Golf wins for me
As seen from video he is not using paddles to shift, therefore rides in full auto. That means he's lift of (not pressing full way) the throttle on the hotlap. Clearly could be heard on final straight, probably doing the same everywhere else. Why?
+Fred Kasimov sorry my friend two seconds is a bit generous. Golf is a warm hatch. Check out the times not only at the Nurburgring but any other track where both have been tested. Gti isn't competitive nor is Golf R. Then you need to look at reliability issues. Vw has a very poor record. But if the Golf makes you feel good, who cares.
+Me Ean Just checked fastestlaps, Hockenhaim short. VW Golf R 1:15.90 (Sener Uwe), while Civic R is 1:15.80 (Gebhardt). It's hardcore track car vs warm hatch, lol. Not a good job by Honda, don't you think?
Id rather the Golf regardless. The Civic Type R is too 'year 2000 Max Power Magazine' looking for me. . . .but I'm getting on in years. I reckon that depending on age many will not think the same way about the Civic.
I don't understand VW. Why not give it the full 290 hp the whole time and the Brembos from the Leon? Interestingly, in an older video Sutcliffe lapped the same track in 46.5 with the Civic and 46.9 with the Cupra 280. So why would anyone get the Golf? If they wanted the higher quality I think the R would be the better choice.
also proof that the Golf is lacking massively in the hot hatch game. The Leon 280 (now 290), civic type R and even the Megane 275 are all much more exciting than the Golf. Sure the Golf may be more comfortable and do "car" stuff better but the point of a hot hatch is to be exciting on a back road, and thats where all golfs lack and always have!
3:20 Wow, the BorgWarner electronic LSD really doesn't seem to work properly compared to the simple Torsen mechanical gear LSD in the Civic. Strange. Is it to do with how VW have programmed it?
This video must have been recorded a while back. The new Clubsport GTI has been announced to have 306hp, and has set the New World Record around the "Ring". If you plan on posting videos like this, please be sure to have the latest information.
No matter what anyone says, the Megane RS is the king of all hot hatches. Less power than these newer cars and still as fast around a track. Go on Renault! 🙌🏻
the Clubsport S is the Civic´s opponent not the Normal Clubsport but okay i would still take the clubsport instead the Type R. Its a matter of taste when you dont drive every day on tracks.
Come see us again after 125 000km... The VW will have costed its owner an arm and a leg (maybe both) and the Honda, barely more than regular maintenance. Not to mention the Honda will be barely broken in, whereas the VW will be almost ready for the crusher...
Gilles Thibault I don't know man. I've owned a few Honda's and a few vws and neither have given me problems. maintenance on a vw is more expensive I won't argue that but I have 43k on my mk7 GTI and the only issue I had was a fuel pump that crapped out twice during the hot summer but there was a recall and I got it replaced for free in under 2 hours. also the pump would somehow work again once I turned the car off and on again.
Focus RS is much more expensive than Honda Civic TypeR! In Sweeden is 10.000 euros more if you compare the full-option models. So...different price categories
Why is it so hard to believe chap they have already test the Type R against the M3 and Audi RS3 and it came out faster and even the new RS couldn't beat its lap time
the type r is more flashy but it's not well proportioned. the golf is more simple but it looks gorgeous from every angles. you pay the same price but you actually have more car with the gti. you have more space, more utilities, better interior finish, better sound and the car is more fun to drive. so the gti is a better car because in the end, you don't choose a car by it's numbers but by the way it makes you feel and in this regard, the gti will win alot more hearts.
The Golf is for a driver that wants mod cons, CTR is for the driver that wants a superior chassis, amazing steering feel, an amazing gear box and a very fast hot hatch. Different markets imo
1982daverogers im pretty sure that the golf's dsg transmission is alot better than what the type r offers. The chassis of the type r is not better. Like you said, 2 different cars. You wouldn't want to live all day with the type r because it rides hard and firm but the golf would simply satisfy you in every aspect because it is designed to be really good in everything. The type r is only good on track, which lets be honest, you aren't on track everyday. The golf chassis is more adaptable to a everyday situation. The type r is really good, don't get me wrong on that but what I'm is that the type r wrecks the golf on track but gets wrecked in every other comparision.
The CTR is NOT a firm or harsh ride. In R+ mode it is, but in normal mode it even was a little to soft for my likings.The DSG is NOT better then de manual in the CTR. Maybe faster on a gearchange, but not BETTER. But then, it depends how better is defined in your book. In my book a hot hatch needs a transmision that adds to the experience. Trust me, no DSG will ever do that over a proper manual, and especialy not the manual of a CTR which is very, VERY highly praised.The chassis of the civic IS better. Look at the bodyroll of the Golf. Look at the laptime. That says it all.There is no 'more' space in the GTI, no 'more' utils, no better interior finish and it is for sure no better fun to drive which is highly subjective coz if i was 75 i prolly would find the Golf a better car to drive.I agree the CTR looks shit. Yes.... i just said it... it looks shite. I just bought one as well !! Why then buy a CTR over a GTI? Coz the GTI looks boring. So incredible boring i would rather drive the CTR then the GTI.Oh... i forgot to mention quality... well.... there is no point explaining what quality is like when you have never owned a Toyota or Honda. True car addicts know though... japanese quality is absolutly number 1. Deny that fact. Try it.
Im a Honda fan but I actually like the slower VW. The real question is if would rather buy one the most unreliable car ever built instead of the Monster type R? Probably not. Honda needs to make this R a little more calm looking then call it the SI! Unless Vw could manage reliability I rather spend my time driving than hanging out at the Mechanics.
It's hilarious how many car experts in the comments think this Golf is just a gimmick car, but none of them know that it set the record on Nurburgring as the first FWD car ever to go around in less than 7:50, more precisely 7:49. There's even a video on youtube, but still, the experts are unaware. That's 10 seconds faster than a Civic. Not to mention the Civic that did that lap was a modified pre-production car that cheated in many ways.
I just wish Honda would of produced one last naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine that broke new levels of acheivement in h.p./liter. When the s2000 came out it was 120 h.p./liter. It's not unreasonable to have around 133 h.p./liter today. Honda could of increased the displacement to 2.6 liter while still achieving 8000+r.p.m., a compression ratio of 12.5:1, more advanced v-tech system, direct injection, and to keep the engine in the sweet spot a double clutch manual. An engine of this caliber would of produced 350 h.p., and as long as the car was light it would of been a contender to many NA v8's on the road today.
actually that GTI clubsport isn't the one that holds the record. it is the GTI clubsport S that holds the record which is more stripped out and has 305 horsepower
CTR over any hot hatch out here! best reliable car, best engine, Really fast plus Every looks at it on the road. GTI looks like any other golf u see on the road
Then which Gti is faster than this honda around the nurbergring......is there a Gti clubsport S version? Currently a gti holds the fastest fwd lap of that track.
The thing is.. If i bought the Civic it would be a LOT slower out in the real world. Before going anywhere i would have looked at it, and then thrown up. Throwing up is not a great thing to do, and you have to waste time feeling fresh and perhaps refill your stomach, before chancing it once more. I would save a lot of time, and discomfort, by just buying any of the Golf GTIs instead. ..or any of the GTIs overall. I don't recall any of them being as ugly as the Civic.
Actually you'd waste more time by buying a VW Golf due to the poor quality control and mediocre engineering for which the Nazi automaker is well known around the globe, and also by tiresome recall notifications and lawsuits over some dodgy cheating scandal. Plus, the GTI looks damn ugly to many, including me, like a plastic car toy for kindergarteners with those disproportionately aggressive "cat whiskers" front bumpers.
The thing is.. If i bought the Golf GTI it would be a LOT slower than it ACTUALLY IS out in the real world. Before going anywhere i would have looked at it, and then i had been falling to coma-sleep because of horrible boredome. Falling to coma because of boredome is not a great thing to do, and you have to waste time to wake up on an intensive care unit, after a year or so. :-)
So which part is the racist part of this guys post? If you are refering to calling germans nazi's, then you really have to read some history as the nazi's where nothing else then an political movement. Nothing racist about that.
The outside views are just awful in the color grading department. Video editor should have tried to balance them to not have that in/out difference that hurt eyes. >
This guy doesnt even run the Civic on the +R mode. Look at the numbers on the dashboard, the rev counter at 5.24 min, the numbers are white, that menas it's in the normal mode. On the +R mode the numbers are red. How can you make a comparison between 2 cars in a track and you dont even turn on the "track mode"... GG Auto Express go learn to make good reviews
best point yet, Nick !! GTI Clubsport: Bridgestone S-001 (which are known to be shitty) 225/40 R18 w/ 7.5x18 (instead aof optional 235/35 PS Cup 2s) Civic Type R: Conti SportContact 6 (designed for the CTR) 235/35 R19 w/ 8.5x19 So that comparison is apples to oranges. ;-) This brand-new SportContact 6 matches the performance of the Michelin PSS, while the bloody old S-001 isn't even close. I'm not saying that responsible for the 2.5 s-difference, but it makes a difference, probably between one and two seconds on a tight circuit like that. Volkswagen should supply a car like this with either Conti SC6 or Michelin PSS.
my PP gti went from 0.9g to a little over 1g just switching to a decent summer. much less a top shelf summer tire like a re71 v720 rs3. hell I'm on a nitto 555g2 car is like night and day
+Amun TOO Yes, but comparing the clubsport with the civic type r is usless.. too much horsepower difference and the clubsport is build for an other purpose. The civic is much much stiffer
+Amun TOO It's about comparing cars with same purpose. I don't care about Civic Guys or ricers or anything. I just want to see a fair comparison about which hatchback is the fastest. The clubsport s is the same purpose build, extremly stiff car and offers less comfort in the interieur as a standard clubsport. I would love to see these 2 cars head to head, the old and new record holder
Dennis B. The clubsport s is a very limited edition 2 door car with no rear seats and a bunch of track pure spec features and its more expensive, thats why it was faster than the CTR, if they had to strip out the CTR the same way it would be faster still.. this clubsport is closer to the CTR in everyway.. however its slower. there is nothing unfair about this test.
Why would VW make a GTI that is way too slow against competition (for the same money) but also uncomfortable for daily use? It falls short on 2 fronts. Both the standard GTI and Golf R are fast and comfortable with a fine cabin quality. But this one is neither fast nor comfortable. The only plus is that it has better cabin quality than Type R. It had been better if VW had went all the way if they wanted to be sporty a la Type R or Focus RS. To bad they stopped Golf 400. (or maybe 420).
VW killed the GTR crowd with R. What VW should have done is have the R be the new GTI and the R be this car. What were VW thinking? And the R is not affordable for the GTI crowd.
Yes it's faster than GTI but GTI fills a specific segment as a hot hatch that is above the other hot hatches by being comfortable as a daily car and better materials (cabin quality) than the competition. Golf R is a step above as a very fast hot hatch, specially thanks to AWD. It's a bit more hardcore than GTI, but still enough comfortable as a daily. And it has the same nice interior. But this one, Clubsport that is supposed to be track oriented, is not comfortable enough as a daily car nor fast enough to beat any of it's much faster competitors (same price). I think VW is fine with GTI, R and then they should have made that Golf 400 (or 420). Instead they made a hardcore GTI that seems to be just that, hardcore, but not fast enough. If you're into track driving, would you buy a Clubsport or the Type R, which is a lot faster and better on track, for the same price?
I do agree that theres some confusion in the VAG house with this car. It's not as fast or focused as a Cupra 290 (which is also more comfortable), and not as good an all rounder as the golf R. It seems to have no place in the VW lineup.
Lol this is not the gti meant to complete with the civic type R , they made the GTI clubsport S that has same amount of power 310hp at all time no just 285hp when over boost like this one , guess we have to wait .
Well VW gave the Clubsport the R engine but instead of 300ps/380Nm detuned it to 265ps/350Nm so in stock form it's no surprise a 310 ps Type-R will be quicker. And while it's much more focused than a standard GTI or even an R, it was also deliberately made less crashy and therefore slower on a track than a Megane RS or Type-R. The thing is though a 5-door Clubsport apart from a fun and sorted car is also a great daily driver, with much more comfort and practicality than any of its rivals. It is also by far the best looking of all and the more classy, just drive every one those cars for 5 min and you'll understand what I'm talking about. As an all-round package the Clubsport is a clear winner. Oh and with such a capable engine already, remove the silly overboost limitations or even throw a standard stage 1 map on it (370bhp / 500Nm) and bye bye world...
This is not fair, you should have compare the civic type R with GTi Clubsport S which has the same amount of horsepower and it's the fastest FWD car around Nürburgring
Are you fucking serious? This Golf set the 7:49 record on Nurburgring. It's painful how ignorant and clueless some people here are. Go watch the fucking video on youtube.
+derbigpr500 it's not the same version the car with the Time 7:49 was a clubsport "s" with 310 ps and no back seats. you dumb dont know a shit about car and you talk. ..
They compared a 265 hp Golf vs a 306hp Civic, use the clubsport s and the hardcore rice civic is gone. And a golf keeps its value, a civic becomes worthless after a few years. Also the build quality of the Golf is from an other dimension.
I don't understand how Sport Auto magazine tests the GTI Clubsport 1,7 seconds faster than the Type-R in the Hockenheim Short cricuit and you get this result, this driver looks ridiculous.
Funny thing is this isn’t even the club sport s with the stripped out rear and full power of 290bhp that set the Nurburgring record so this is an unfair comparison between these 2 vehicles
In the GTI you weren't driving it that same way as in the Civic. You looked as tho you were out on a Sunday to get a cup of tea and paper to read at the park
all respect to honda and the type r but id have best of both worlds with the clubsport. commute to work and school with it unlike the type r that specifically built for the track
How you compared them? They are very similar on this generation . Honda has felt-lined glovebox, same as VW. Honda has dual lights on both vanity mirrors -- VW has only a single light on each vanity mirror. Honda has soft touch rear door card upper, while actually it is the VW that has hard plastic rear door card to save costs.
Once a VW is out of warrantee the nightmare begins.. DSG gearbox is like a workshops best friend. lo never mind mods.. price it cost to gain 50hp then few thousand ks later its either the engines goes to ring land or runs a bottom bearing because the valve lifts on higher boost.. but really the reliability of the electrical in these vw are rubbish.. always fk out after 2- 3 years. it's unbelievable..
This is why I sold my golf. Got beaten by a naturally aspirated type r in my mk6 golf gti with a tune.. So sold it and got a type R! Eagerly waiting til the day this turbocharged version arrives in AUS
Another myth needs debunked. The Golf didn't start the hot hatch ball rolling. It popularised the idea but was beaten to the market by 5 years by the Autobianchi A112 Abarth. The Renault 5 Alpine and Simca 1100 Ti also beat it. Although it didn't gain a hatch until later, the Alfasud was also championing the notion of a small sporting FWD family car years before the Golf (and it handled better, but don't tell the VW fanatics).
Why did he short shift the Golf GTI at the final straight just couple of seconds before crossing the line? Can't stop thinking that it may have had a small impact on the time
He seemed to be driving in auto mode and not using the paddles so that possibly why
They explained that the videos of the lap times don´t actually correspond to the real lap
yeh thought the same thing, this guy is fkin terrible
I was thinking the same, I think they wanted to promote the Civic
one would short shift from 1-2 and 2-3 but not from 4-5. It can't lose traction in 4th gear.
talking about heritage of the gti, Honda type r's have just as much heritage.Think of integra, civic and nsx. They've been doing time attacks and racing around the world for decades now. Gti were never race oriented as much. Ford And Honda over vw anyday
agree considering there have been 7 inclanations of the Golf GTI, only 3 have been genuinely good cars (MK 1,2,5) the MK7 is an car 'they had to do' rather than the real deal, and the public agrees, because they are buying the R instead. Honda have been much more consistent with the R models, especially when price and performance are taken into account.
Exactly. I think the gti's are a bit more premium. But having experienced multiple rides in gtis and various type r's, Honda is just some much more engaging and fun. Not to mention the relaiblity and performance.
andypaul999, I don't think the 'public agrees', because sales show that so far GTI is a bit more popular than the Honda (at least in Europe)... Mk7 is a genuinely brilliant car, and I'm talking from my personal experience too.
Iceman7, when they say 'heritage' they don't mean 'racing heritage'. Golf GTI has been around for longer and 'GTI' badge was not supposed to appear on racecars at all, it represents a fun, quick and affordable everyday car. And both, Honda and VW actually represent this brand images. So if I was to use the car for regular track days, than the Civic is faster, more fun and more hardcore. But if I was to use the car for daily driving, I would not even think about any other car than the Golf GTI. It is much more relaxing to drive when you want it to be, its more fuel efficient and practical, it has all the 2016 technology (like the ACC for motorway driving) and yet it can be fun when you want it to be.
There is a lot of hatred towards VW, but I've driven and owned many of their cars, including cars like the GTI, and I can not understand the reasons. You just have to understand what these cars are designed to do (be your _everyday_ heroes, I would say) and then you will be able to appreciate them. Mosts hot-hatch tests focus on a few hours of track/B-road driving and so it is often that the more hardcore car wins the test. But every long-term test (and personal experience) shows that cars like Golf GTI are WAY nicer and easier and more enjoyable to own.
I understand what you are saying, and the purpose of these cars. But to me a hot hatch is a sports car, and a sports car is that car you take out in the weekend and have fun with in some twisty roads, listening to the engine and then you can stop and look at it. For me, gti's never provided this sense of sportiness. They are more of beefed up regular hatches designed to be used everyday, whereas the hondas are stripped out and designed to be as exhilarating as a hot hatch can be with the main focus being performance and fun, and to hell with comfort. That i find much more attractive for a 'sports car'.
I think all the German manufacturers like to build their sports cars which can be daily driven. If you look at the regular 911, M3, R8 and so on, they are great sports cars in the performance department but also can be comfy. Some people prefer their sports cars to be all out performance oriented, like say a ferrari.
Unless your buying these cars to go on the track everyday, the gti is the better car to buy. It's better looking, more refined, much nicer interior, and a simple 700 dollar tune will make it faster than a Golf r.
Unless you're going on track days a gold tdi is better than either of these. Or do you really need 250+ hp to go to work with?
Please stfu u sound stupid fanboy
+Si Raff yes yes you do.
Si Raff Lol how can you say a golf tdi is better than a gti for daily driving and going on nice drives through backcountry roads? And yes, i'd much rather have at least 270 or more hp.
*****
I'm not. I'm extending the thought train that says the less powerful car is better. I think it's bull5hit personally.
it's funny that everyone is criticising the Type R for the way it looks, but don't moan about the GTI. VW have essentially just riced up the golf for its 40th anniversary with a dodgy turbo map that 'might' give you an extra 30bhp and bolted on a load of eBay body fins. The Type R smashed it and will probably smash the RS Focus and Golf R around a track too. The Honda is the cutting edge of FWD performance, and for that, it can look however it bloody wants.
It's help no end if the Civic Type R sounded half decent...sounded like a Hot Hatch.
Id rather have the gti still. Just more mature looking.
Who wouldn't.
Me, I went for the Civic in GT form the golf looks like every other one were the Civic stands out like the old Ford RS of the 80s did I like to think getting older is mandatory but growing up is optional
+sinngsg9 The civic would draw attention from the police easy. Way to loud of a look for them not to sit and stare
sinngsg9 This exact Civic Type R featured in the video inarguably looks abominable. If it was in black it would be much more compelling, but still too ricey. All the aero parts are just overdone.
That doesn't bother me to be fair I always drive cars which stand out
First of all , the gti is clubsport and not a clubsport s.. The power and the settings between two GTI is very diferrent. I want to see a comparison in this truck the GTI clubsport S vs Type R.
Just spent a week driving the Clubsport around the winding roads of Chapmans Peak drive in Cape Town, such an incredible machine!
I realize it's quite randomly asking but do anyone know a good website to stream new series online?
That isn't really fair, VW Golf GTI Clubsport S vs. the Honda is fair because both has 310 hp
True
Never mind. Auto express is some kind of near commercials video reviews channel.
Still, on the Nurburgring, Golf is faster than a Honda. This guy just can't drive.
+derbigpr500 or maybe vw cheated?
+Birmingham racing Maybe. But, did you know that record holding VW is "Clubsport S", when in this video is different model "Clubsport"?
The conclusion is get a top spec leon cupra and you have the best of both worlds
If you're after about absolute track performance get a Megane RS Trophy. The Cupra is capable but it suffers from ultra boring looks, dull interior, and terrible depreciation, when you spend 30k on a car you expect more than just performance, you want it to make you feel special every time you look at it or sit in the driver's seat. The Cupra fails miserably in that department. The GTI Clubsport however looks amazing and is way more upmarket and refined (yet a fully daily driver without silly hard suspension) than any of its rivals and that's it's strongest point. At last VW decided to make a really special Golf.
Thats what i always thought. My Civic type R which i just handed in at the dealer for a new CTR had much more depriciation then a Megane RS of the same year.I also have to nore that the Meg RS is a freakin good car.
M135i
at around 3:20 you failed, you short shifted the GTI this may have cost a full half second.
3:25 as well
That maybe just random video footage from the day and not the real lap they took the time chaps
sinngsg9 it likely is random footage indeed
What are you trying to say? Even in the video you can see that the Gti is not sporty enough in the corners. You can see by eye that it drives slower through thr corners.
And they used the DSG version which us NOT same fast as manual. DSG or generally double clutch/automatic gearboxes are much faster. Everytime you shift you loose 0.1-0.2s in a manual.
And i dont think that they only drive 1 lap. They drive many laps and take the best.
still a second behind even accounting for that
I don't know why but I really don't like the Civic's looks. That bodyshape is weird, makes the car profile look like a shoe.
Some might say that the Golf looks boring, but to me it looks really good and its design is tasteful and isn't overdone. Also, Golf gets better technology, such as satnav, ACC etc. Which still matters for a hot-hatch.
So the Golf wins for me
I cant understand why the golf clubsport has 265bhp with a 290 bhp overboost function. Why not have 290 bhp all the time? Anyone know why vw did this
We have seen civic type R... Integra type R, NSX type R... perhaps we should see a S2000 type R! MAKE ANOTHER DREAM COME TRUE HONDA!
That short shift in the Golf on the final straight. Any comments, Auto express?
As seen from video he is not using paddles to shift, therefore rides in full auto. That means he's lift of (not pressing full way) the throttle on the hotlap. Clearly could be heard on final straight, probably doing the same everywhere else. Why?
Agree that he shifted way too early on the final straight in the GTI, 2 seconds there at least.
+Fred Kasimov sorry my friend two seconds is a bit generous. Golf is a warm hatch. Check out the times not only at the Nurburgring but any other track where both have been tested. Gti isn't competitive nor is Golf R. Then you need to look at reliability issues. Vw has a very poor record. But if the Golf makes you feel good, who cares.
+Me Ean Just checked fastestlaps, Hockenhaim short. VW Golf R 1:15.90 (Sener Uwe), while Civic R is 1:15.80 (Gebhardt). It's hardcore track car vs warm hatch, lol. Not a good job by Honda, don't you think?
"this is the king of hot hatches on tracks" - Don't see too many Civic's on the Nurburgring....on the other hand, Megane RS's are all over the place.
That’s because there is only 8000 of FK2 Type R’s in the world.
Id rather the Golf regardless.
The Civic Type R is too 'year 2000 Max Power Magazine' looking for me. . . .but I'm getting on in years.
I reckon that depending on age many will not think the same way about the Civic.
I don't understand VW. Why not give it the full 290 hp the whole time and the Brembos from the Leon? Interestingly, in an older video Sutcliffe lapped the same track in 46.5 with the Civic and 46.9 with the Cupra 280. So why would anyone get the Golf? If they wanted the higher quality I think the R would be the better choice.
couldnt agree more
also proof that the Golf is lacking massively in the hot hatch game. The Leon 280 (now 290), civic type R and even the Megane 275 are all much more exciting than the Golf. Sure the Golf may be more comfortable and do "car" stuff better but the point of a hot hatch is to be exciting on a back road, and thats where all golfs lack and always have!
then y on the nurburgring the gti was fater than the civic type r record by 3 sec ?
The driver didn’t look like the slammed the pedal near the finish line. It sounded like he was in a much higher gear imo.
To be honest. The real winner is the consumer, no matter what new hot hatch you buy its gonna be fast. We are living in a golden age of horsepower. 🦄
3:20 Wow, the BorgWarner electronic LSD really doesn't seem to work properly compared to the simple Torsen mechanical gear LSD in the Civic. Strange. Is it to do with how VW have programmed it?
I'd love to see a track battle between RS and type R, make it happen guys!
Holy shit, forget that, I just saw the RS's time on the other video, 46,8 seconds!! pretty much the same as the civic type r. That's ridiculous!
+Mcufre the Type R is around 200kgs lighter than the RS that's how it does it
Soo... Someone noticed he shortshifted in the gti in the end? Probably not 2.5 seconds worth but...
Why did you change up 2 gears @ 45s into the GTI lap?
This video must have been recorded a while back. The new Clubsport GTI has been announced to have 306hp, and has set the New World Record around the "Ring". If you plan on posting videos like this, please be sure to have the latest information.
No matter what anyone says, the Megane RS is the king of all hot hatches. Less power than these newer cars and still as fast around a track. Go on Renault! 🙌🏻
Golf wasn't driven hard enough, short shifted a few times too. Gap ain't that much, driven properly!
We need to see a Golf R race against this Clubsport. I for one am undecided for which one to buy.
the Clubsport S is the Civic´s opponent not the Normal Clubsport but okay i would still take the clubsport instead the Type R. Its a matter of taste when you dont drive every day on tracks.
Come see us again after 125 000km... The VW will have costed its owner an arm and a leg (maybe both) and the Honda, barely more than regular maintenance. Not to mention the Honda will be barely broken in, whereas the VW will be almost ready for the crusher...
Gilles Thibault I don't know man. I've owned a few Honda's and a few vws and neither have given me problems. maintenance on a vw is more expensive I won't argue that but I have 43k on my mk7 GTI and the only issue I had was a fuel pump that crapped out twice during the hot summer but there was a recall and I got it replaced for free in under 2 hours. also the pump would somehow work again once I turned the car off and on again.
I'm actually in love with the look of the Type -R but then again I'm a subie fan ;)
For 30k£ you can buy Focus RS and Golf R why buy Gti or Civic for same money.
Because is totally diferent.
A Focus RS and Golf R for £30k? Bargain! I have £30k and need a couple of fast motors!
Focus RS is much more expensive than Honda Civic TypeR! In Sweeden is 10.000 euros more if you compare the full-option models. So...different price categories
Because the Civic is a much better engineered car.
*EXACTLY!*
saving up right now for when the type r releases in the US :) 2018
That Civic is one ugly car! I will take the Golf thank you and have comfort, class and a car that is perfectly quick enough thank you.
2.5 Sec.. Hard to believe..
VW is junk.Quite natural.
Yes, and they tried hard to be slow in VW. You know... meaningless short shifts, etc
The Track is to short to be so much faster.. Sorry 👎
That's true. There was probably more speed in the car.
Why is it so hard to believe chap they have already test the Type R against the M3 and Audi RS3 and it came out faster and even the new RS couldn't beat its lap time
Much prefer the GTI, golf R, A45, focus RS....
But they are all more expensive
Should've waited and tested the Clubsport S vs the Honda.
The golf is for the shape...type R is for the wolf😎😎😎
this is just so funny, you managed to get a 2.5 second difference on such a small track.. how are you not embarassed to publish this?
The Golf looks stylish, handsome and mature.. The Civic just looks ridiculous.
the new Golf GTI Clubsport S got 310 PS and is even more Track-focused!
I believe the one used ine Nurburgring is the clubsport 'S' version.
Would love a Clubsport S in 3 door shape with dsg. Unfortunately in Australia they don't sell 3 doors and clubsport s versions
the type r is more flashy but it's not well proportioned. the golf is more simple but it looks gorgeous from every angles. you pay the same price but you actually have more car with the gti. you have more space, more utilities, better interior finish, better sound and the car is more fun to drive. so the gti is a better car because in the end, you don't choose a car by it's numbers but by the way it makes you feel and in this regard, the gti will win alot more hearts.
The Golf is for a driver that wants mod cons, CTR is for the driver that wants a superior chassis, amazing steering feel, an amazing gear box and a very fast hot hatch. Different markets imo
1982daverogers im pretty sure that the golf's dsg transmission is alot better than what the type r offers. The chassis of the type r is not better. Like you said, 2 different cars. You wouldn't want to live all day with the type r because it rides hard and firm but the golf would simply satisfy you in every aspect because it is designed to be really good in everything. The type r is only good on track, which lets be honest, you aren't on track everyday. The golf chassis is more adaptable to a everyday situation. The type r is really good, don't get me wrong on that but what I'm is that the type r wrecks the golf on track but gets wrecked in every other comparision.
The CTR is NOT a firm or harsh ride. In R+ mode it is, but in normal mode it even was a little to soft for my likings.The DSG is NOT better then de manual in the CTR. Maybe faster on a gearchange, but not BETTER. But then, it depends how better is defined in your book. In my book a hot hatch needs a transmision that adds to the experience. Trust me, no DSG will ever do that over a proper manual, and especialy not the manual of a CTR which is very, VERY highly praised.The chassis of the civic IS better. Look at the bodyroll of the Golf. Look at the laptime. That says it all.There is no 'more' space in the GTI, no 'more' utils, no better interior finish and it is for sure no better fun to drive which is highly subjective coz if i was 75 i prolly would find the Golf a better car to drive.I agree the CTR looks shit. Yes.... i just said it... it looks shite. I just bought one as well !! Why then buy a CTR over a GTI? Coz the GTI looks boring. So incredible boring i would rather drive the CTR then the GTI.Oh... i forgot to mention quality... well.... there is no point explaining what quality is like when you have never owned a Toyota or Honda. True car addicts know though... japanese quality is absolutly number 1. Deny that fact. Try it.
Im a Honda fan but I actually like the slower VW. The real question is if would rather buy one the most unreliable car ever built instead of the Monster type R? Probably not. Honda needs to make this R a little more calm looking then call it the SI! Unless Vw could manage reliability I rather spend my time driving than hanging out at the Mechanics.
get a civic SI instead then
It's hilarious how many car experts in the comments think this Golf is just a gimmick car, but none of them know that it set the record on Nurburgring as the first FWD car ever to go around in less than 7:50, more precisely 7:49. There's even a video on youtube, but still, the experts are unaware. That's 10 seconds faster than a Civic. Not to mention the Civic that did that lap was a modified pre-production car that cheated in many ways.
that's the gti clubsport s not the "normal" clubsport
The Golf was stripped. Honda have already said they will be back to take the record back. Will be easy.
+MrStamford78 the Golf was a production model they made about 500 of it
It's hilarious that you think you were an "expert" but even don't know that the record was set by the special edition Clubsport >>S
10 secs? Check the Civic time.
2002 called and it wants it's hodge-podge styling back from the Civic Type R.
Well actually it's inspiration from the 80s
Group B rally cars
Is there a difference between the VW Golf GTI Clubsport and the Clubsport S??
then how is the GTI faster than the Civic 1.4s around the nurburgring ?
I just wish Honda would of produced one last naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine that broke new levels of acheivement in h.p./liter. When the s2000 came out it was 120 h.p./liter. It's not unreasonable to have around 133 h.p./liter today. Honda could of increased the displacement to 2.6 liter while still achieving 8000+r.p.m., a compression ratio of 12.5:1, more advanced v-tech system, direct injection, and to keep the engine in the sweet spot a double clutch manual. An engine of this caliber would of produced 350 h.p., and as long as the car was light it would of been a contender to many NA v8's on the road today.
emission regularisation bro . honda couldve done it it. but they cant
Unfortunately the Civic type R is the riciest looking car you can buy in my opinion. So it's the GTI for me
You need to check the term ricer.
+MrStamford78 Haha....true that. The term "Riced" get throw around, without forethought.
+MrStamford78 Regardless, I think we all know what I meant
Yeah, the type R eats the most rice
Golf looks like a chav chariot. Plus it's common as hell. Strange to say but the Honda is more exclusive to own
When is the Type-R coming out in the U.S?
OMG the Honda is so ugly...
***** hahaha both are not aesthetically pleasing
I agree! Looks like something out of a cheap comic book!
On the Nurburgring, the Golf takes the cake :)
not THIS Golf tho.
actually that GTI clubsport isn't the one that holds the record. it is the GTI clubsport S that holds the record which is more stripped out and has 305 horsepower
20,600 m (67,600 ft)
7:49:21
Volkswagen Golf GTI Clubsport S
20,600 m (67,600 ft)
7:50:63
Honda Civic Type R
+Daily Driver yah the time you have is the clubsport S so not the clubsport in the video
yep, they had to strip out the interior of a 2 door golf to beat a 4 door civic :)
I hope we get the rs and type r in the states
CTR over any hot hatch out here! best reliable car, best engine, Really fast plus Every looks at it on the road. GTI looks like any other golf u see on the road
That Xmas Tree Honda is mighty fast but u can't compare it with the GTi perhaps the RS
will the Golf GTI clubsport is faster than the Civic Type R on the Nurburgring. 7 minutes 49 for the golf and 7 minutes 50 for the Civic
but then again that is the Club Sport S
Ive driven loads of the ctr - great but you will get dusted by a 1.0 panda if its raining. It spins in 3rd easily with a gentle roll on...
what happened to the quarter mile drag rac?????? really guy's.
Then which Gti is faster than this honda around the nurbergring......is there a Gti clubsport S version? Currently a gti holds the fastest fwd lap of that track.
which is the one to go for club sport or clubsport s
OK, Civic is bit faster, but as dailycar you need faster or better car ? Give me Golf...
The thing is.. If i bought the Civic it would be a LOT slower out in the real world. Before going anywhere i would have looked at it, and then thrown up. Throwing up is not a great thing to do, and you have to waste time feeling fresh and perhaps refill your stomach, before chancing it once more.
I would save a lot of time, and discomfort, by just buying any of the Golf GTIs instead. ..or any of the GTIs overall. I don't recall any of them being as ugly as the Civic.
Actually you'd waste more time by buying a VW Golf due to the poor quality control and mediocre engineering for which the Nazi automaker is well known around the globe, and also by tiresome recall notifications and lawsuits over some dodgy cheating scandal. Plus, the GTI looks damn ugly to many, including me, like a plastic car toy for kindergarteners with those disproportionately aggressive "cat whiskers" front bumpers.
+averagejoe LOL you are a special kind of racist & idiot
The thing is.. If i bought the Golf GTI it would be a LOT slower than it ACTUALLY IS out in the
real world. Before going anywhere i would have looked at it, and then i had been falling to coma-sleep because of horrible boredome. Falling to coma because of boredome is not a great thing to do, and you have to waste
time to wake up on an intensive care unit, after a year or so. :-)
So which part is the racist part of this guys post?
If you are refering to calling germans nazi's, then you really have to read some history as the nazi's where nothing else then an political movement. Nothing racist about that.
The outside views are just awful in the color grading department. Video editor should have tried to balance them to not have that in/out difference that hurt eyes. >
This guy doesnt even run the Civic on the +R mode. Look at the numbers on the dashboard, the rev counter at 5.24 min, the numbers are white, that menas it's in the normal mode. On the +R mode the numbers are red. How can you make a comparison between 2 cars in a track and you dont even turn on the "track mode"... GG Auto Express go learn to make good reviews
Because the VW also has a "track mode" feature..forgot it came with that. GG you tool.
So think of how much faster the Civic would be in track mode.
what tires are on both cars?
best point yet, Nick !!
GTI Clubsport: Bridgestone S-001 (which are known to be shitty)
225/40 R18 w/ 7.5x18 (instead aof optional 235/35 PS Cup 2s)
Civic Type R: Conti SportContact 6 (designed for the CTR)
235/35 R19 w/ 8.5x19
So that comparison is apples to oranges. ;-) This brand-new
SportContact 6 matches the performance of the Michelin PSS,
while the bloody old S-001 isn't even close.
I'm not saying that responsible for the 2.5 s-difference, but it
makes a difference, probably between one and two seconds
on a tight circuit like that.
Volkswagen should supply a car like this with either Conti SC6
or Michelin PSS.
tires makes a massive difference
tires makes a massive difference
my PP gti went from 0.9g to a little over 1g just switching to a decent summer. much less a top shelf summer tire like a re71 v720 rs3. hell I'm on a nitto 555g2 car is like night and day
I just realised that I'm 10 years older than when I saw that MK5 launched.
Should have compared the Civic with the Clubsport S... the new record holder at the ring
they couldnt find one, the 400 of them been made arent available yet.
+Amun TOO Yes, but comparing the clubsport with the civic type r is usless.. too much horsepower difference and the clubsport is build for an other purpose. The civic is much much stiffer
Dennis B. Don't buy one then.. simple! however thousands of CTR'S have already been sold and will continue too :)
+Amun TOO It's about comparing cars with same purpose. I don't care about Civic Guys or ricers or anything. I just want to see a fair comparison about which hatchback is the fastest. The clubsport s is the same purpose build, extremly stiff car and offers less comfort in the interieur as a standard clubsport. I would love to see these 2 cars head to head, the old and new record holder
Dennis B. The clubsport s is a very limited edition 2 door car with no rear seats and a bunch of track pure spec features and its more expensive, thats why it was faster than the CTR, if they had to strip out the CTR the same way it would be faster still.. this clubsport is closer to the CTR in everyway.. however its slower. there is nothing unfair about this test.
The Golf is normally such a boring looking car it's good to see VW finally give it a little visual interest.
5:40 I think he meant a blender being sucked through a vacuum cleaner lol
Why would VW make a GTI that is way too slow against competition (for the same money) but also uncomfortable for daily use? It falls short on 2 fronts.
Both the standard GTI and Golf R are fast and comfortable with a fine cabin quality. But this one is neither fast nor comfortable. The only plus is that it has better cabin quality than Type R. It had been better if VW had went all the way if they wanted to be sporty a la Type R or Focus RS. To bad they stopped Golf 400. (or maybe 420).
how can the standard golf gti in your words be fast, but this one is not fast? surely the clubsport gti is a lot faster than the standard gti?
VW killed the GTR crowd with R. What VW should have done is have the R be the new GTI and the R be this car. What were VW thinking? And the R is not affordable for the GTI crowd.
Yes it's faster than GTI but GTI fills a specific segment as a hot hatch that is above the other hot hatches by being comfortable as a daily car and better materials (cabin quality) than the competition. Golf R is a step above as a very fast hot hatch, specially thanks to AWD. It's a bit more hardcore than GTI, but still enough comfortable as a daily. And it has the same nice interior.
But this one, Clubsport that is supposed to be track oriented, is not comfortable enough as a daily car nor fast enough to beat any of it's much faster competitors (same price). I think VW is fine with GTI, R and then they should have made that Golf 400 (or 420). Instead they made a hardcore GTI that seems to be just that, hardcore, but not fast enough. If you're into track driving, would you buy a Clubsport or the Type R, which is a lot faster and better on track, for the same price?
I do agree that theres some confusion in the VAG house with this car. It's not as fast or focused as a Cupra 290 (which is also more comfortable), and not as good an all rounder as the golf R. It seems to have no place in the VW lineup.
I'd like to see the Honda Civic Type R compared to a Renault Megane Trophy R
why wasnt the honda pitted against its equal the golf r ? Was this a Honda sponsored video ?
Does the gti comes with the check engine light? Since is famous for that lol
Lol this is not the gti meant to complete with the civic type R , they made the GTI clubsport S that has same amount of power 310hp at all time no just 285hp when over boost like this one , guess we have to wait .
I don't live in the god damn Nürburging, that GTI is just perfect
The styling of the Golf is as hot and aesthetically interesting as a piece of cardboard
Well VW gave the Clubsport the R engine but instead of 300ps/380Nm detuned it to 265ps/350Nm so in stock form it's no surprise a 310 ps Type-R will be quicker. And while it's much more focused than a standard GTI or even an R, it was also deliberately made less crashy and therefore slower on a track than a Megane RS or Type-R. The thing is though a 5-door Clubsport apart from a fun and sorted car is also a great daily driver, with much more comfort and practicality than any of its rivals. It is also by far the best looking of all and the more classy, just drive every one those cars for 5 min and you'll understand what I'm talking about. As an all-round package the Clubsport is a clear winner. Oh and with such a capable engine already, remove the silly overboost limitations or even throw a standard stage 1 map on it (370bhp / 500Nm) and bye bye world...
So soft suspension to be slow in corners, and remapped to be fast in straight lines? Brilliant... /sarcasm
This is not fair, you should have compare the civic type R with GTi Clubsport S which has the same amount of horsepower and it's the fastest FWD car around Nürburgring
Clubsport S weights over 100kg less and costs £10k more. When Honda will release extreme version of Type R then it will be fair comparison.
he upshifted early in the gti 3:23
Only the leon cupra 290 sub8 pack can keep up with the type r. The gti clubshit is Just a show off car
Are you fucking serious? This Golf set the 7:49 record on Nurburgring. It's painful how ignorant and clueless some people here are. Go watch the fucking video on youtube.
+derbigpr500 it's not the same version the car with the Time 7:49 was a clubsport "s" with 310 ps and no back seats. you dumb dont know a shit about car and you talk. ..
+Medamine Majid. That's right, the Civic will be back to take a good few seconds off the 7:49
They compared a 265 hp Golf vs a 306hp Civic, use the clubsport s and the hardcore rice civic is gone. And a golf keeps its value, a civic becomes worthless after a few years. Also the build quality of the Golf is from an other dimension.
+Dennis B. Thats what i said lol why no the clubsport s.
I don't understand how Sport Auto magazine tests the GTI Clubsport 1,7 seconds faster than the Type-R in the Hockenheim Short cricuit and you get this result, this driver looks ridiculous.
It seems to me like you sit waaay to high in the civic type R.....
Fastest production front wheel drive on that famous German track!
Fastest FWD hatch? Would like to see what the A45 AMG would do. Anyone else?
u realise a45 is awd ?
Honda Type R vs fiesta ST drag race, you will be surprised at the result. I raced one a week ago, and could stay ahead till end of 4th! :)
Funny thing is this isn’t even the club sport s with the stripped out rear and full power of 290bhp that set the Nurburgring record so this is an unfair comparison between these 2 vehicles
In the GTI you weren't driving it that same way as in the Civic. You looked as tho you were out on a Sunday to get a cup of tea and paper to read at the park
Yuuuuum those corners... 2:01
Good video
all respect to honda and the type r but id have best of both worlds with the clubsport. commute to work and school with it unlike the type r that specifically built for the track
cara sou brasileiro mas fiquei muito feliz com vcs falando da volkswagem
No doubt the civic is a monster but the difference in interiors is night and day in terms of quality
How you compared them? They are very similar on this generation . Honda has felt-lined glovebox, same as VW. Honda has dual lights on both vanity mirrors -- VW has only a single light on each vanity mirror. Honda has soft touch rear door card upper, while actually it is the VW that has hard plastic rear door card to save costs.
Once a VW is out of warrantee the nightmare begins.. DSG gearbox is like a workshops best friend. lo
never mind mods.. price it cost to gain 50hp then few thousand ks later its either the engines goes to ring land or runs a bottom bearing because the valve lifts on higher boost..
but really the reliability of the electrical in these vw are rubbish.. always fk out after 2- 3 years. it's unbelievable..
Booooom!!!!! Type R baby :) and I don't think he was in R mode, the Rev counter wasn't glowing red I don't think
a. Get someone who can drive. b. The Golf now holds the Nurburgring front-wheel drive record; beating the Civic. c. Nuff said.
@ 6:06 "then you just get HARD on the throttle and" ohh myyy