I was playing with Zhu Yuan today, and discovered that the roll she does when moving while doing her charge attacks counts as a dodge, now weaving dodges into charge attacks into rolls feels so satisfying
It literally stated on her skill tho? That when you dash when using suppressive mode, it count as dash attack, that's why cc who said you shouldn't bother leveling her dodge is wrong
It does have the same multiplier on the same lv, if you didn't lv it up, you have to avoid dashing when you use suppressive mode since you'll deal less dmg since you didn't lv it up 😂
I think whats underrated is zhu yuans ability to use various supports She can run ben bigger lucy, lycaon soukaku, lycaon rina, koleda lucy, etc As long as the team has a support, she can run those teams Ellen Joe however is kinda locked into an archetype limiting flexibility
Ellen’s special sprint is what keeps her above Zhu Yuan for me, and probably will for a good while, since I’m all about mobility in games. That being said, I still enjoy Zhu Yuan almost as much. I think I need more time to better weave her built-in dodges casually.
My favorite part about Zhu Yuan is all of her different combos. While it can be argued that ultimately only a very small number of them is ever viable, it still shows a glimpse of a new kind of skill ceiling that we only ever fully see in fighting games, and teases what kind of gameplay depth we might want to expect from future characters.
Zhu Yuan is currently not as good as Ellen but Zhu Yuan will get better as we go through the rest of the N.E.P.S. Faction and potentially unlock some of her best teammates in the upcoming patch so Ellen might definitely beat Zhu Yuan in dps soon!
Ellen is so smooth and elegant, while Zhu Yuan is fast af and supressive, her gun-kata (combining guns and martial arts) is amazing. Had a blast clearing SD with them
I have really just become a master ellen player. There is soo much stun , freeze, I frames , combined with her High speed, she feels untouchable. Still having to get used to zhu yuan, been getting rocked a little bit. She is super fun though and I know I will get better.
Ellen has amazing survivability on top of her damage output. Not only is her mobility very high with Roaming State (which also comes with dodge frames), her EX Special has anti-interrupt and EX Special 2 has i-frames. Charged Scissor Strike has a high interrupt threshold and gives her +40% defense while charging. But best of all, when she has freeze stacks, BA3 will teleport behind the enemy. Not only does this do a lot of damage (esp with Lycaon and Soukaku/Rina's buffs active), she can go from EX Special or EX Special 2 straight into BA3, meaning you can abuse both the i-frames and the repositioning, which will leave most bosses swinging at empty air while Ellen teleports behind them to wail on them. Since EX Special gives 1 Freeze charge, you don't need to worry about keeping max stacks, either, you will almost always have access to this combo as long as you have enough energy for an EX Special.
Both Ellen and Zhu are amazing and incredibly fun. I curse the ZZZ Dev team for releasing two great DPS characters at the start of the game's life. I did use my wallet(no worries, I got plenty to pay the bills and spend some without my wallet crying). They both were hard pity, lol. But they are worth every penny I spent on my main account. As someone who enjoys action hacknslash combat, both of them have been two of my favorite playstyle in action gameplay and video games in general. No joke, either. Ellen and Zhu feel satisfying and addictive to play. With both of them, I don't think I feel want another DPS till Miyabi, and I'll have Polychromes saved up from events, new quests, and story chapters by then. Even if they fall off later with endgame content, I know storywise they'll continue to be good.
lol, theres multiple people in the comments saying zhu yuan is harder to use which i dont understand, i think she's "harder" to use than ellen but I still wouldnt classfiy her as a hard unit to play
I love that you guys are producing more & more discussion/reflective content that caters towards Z3 and really gives players another way to think about the game. Heck. YES!
Honestly speaking, some folks have been too quick to think about end game, damage output and such. For me, I've already got Soldier 11 (my first 5 star), Grace (my initial 50/50 loss), and Zhu Yuan as my 5 stars. Now I'm just more concerned in building supports and slowly fixing up a full second team whilst waiting for more story content.
@KetteiThe7th_ OH, I think it'd be better if you make a cautionary video against resource spending for the newer players. Forcing to make full level 50 teams quickly grinds everything down. Only the Bangboo mats are somewhat slow to exhaust if you build 3 of the little buggers to swap around.
Truly glad I found this channel, I am so glad for a calm normal discussion from someone who understands the game and is able to get across good info without bs or needless drama flairs
I love ellens mobility. Theres been multiple times where ive been able to move around an eneny attack or time her i-frames to power through an enemy attack. Plus the more i learn and utilize frame cancels the more utility I find in her kit. My favorite interaction being running into an enemy then charging and frame canceling her scissors charger while switching into my stunner so that i can stun the enemy before buffing with my support then switching into ellen with her full stacks
Would having Ellen and Zhu yuan be better than just having Ellen? (I don't have lycaon and I'm F2P) but my account is currently lacking a full team other than electric and I absolutely despise using grace in general so some help would be appreciated (I am indeed that one guy in zzz general)
I have both with signatures, Zhu yuan feels a lot stronger than grace+anton electric team, but do keep in mind that ive been testing only in SD that favors ice and ether currently Grace is an amazing char, but with out rina her performance falls off Also Ellen doesn't need lycaon to be good, I don't have one and doing just fine
@@reaver8440 the problem with not having lycaon is that I need Anby with soukaku and Ellen, but then I don't have anyone to go with grace and Anton because I don't have rina and I basically only have soukaku and Ellen actually built
First of all yayyyyyy my waifu is strongest so far! I’m so happy, and second there’s also something DIFFRENT between them, Zhu yuan has a gun so while running its not possible to counter the attacks such as rapid bullets, but she can dodge, meanwhile Ellen Joe can slice away every single bullet if u run while they are being shot
As an owner of both, Ellen is more consistent. ZY is a bit too flighty but her gameplay is fun. Qinyi is gonna take her to another level though cause as it stands rn Anby feels terrible to play in her team.
I think Soukaku is just not as good as people think. CN used Rina for a good while and then people switched to Nicole. But since Nicole is now stolen by Zhu Yuan's team then if you plan to run both teams for Shiyu Defence then I think Rina is your next best in the support slot. Def shred / Pen seems worlds better damage wise than a type damage buff.
this is only true for PEN if you have reached the dmg%/attack values that start to give dimnishing returns, if you havent then Soukaku will buff more than Rina, so u just need alot of stats for Rina to be better but it is possible
@KetteiThe7th_ Honestly, Soukaku felt great back when I was doing lvl 40 content, but now I really think it's time to retire her. Another advantage with Rina she can basically be off-field 99% of the time like Nicole. Just in to launch an EX and get the quick assist then back out. Meanwhile Soukaku is spinning for like a solid 3 seconds before planting the flag.
@@goblez5900 your soukaku must not be well built, which nothing is wrong with that. But soukaku makes up with her field time by also doing great damage herself, and 90% of players that say she's lackluster dont have a well built soukaku with high leveld talents. Now u can say this is bad as she needs more investment thanother supports, that's fair to say. But I don't think it's fair to say that she's overall worse, cause a well invested soukaku can do alot for a team
@KetteiThe7th_ Her attacks just seem so slow and sluggish I'd rather not have her on field lol. I'll be honest, I didn't bring her up past lvl.40. I had switched over to running Nicole on the Ice team just before Zhu Yuan came out so never got around to building her any more than that.
If you don’t like Soukaku playstyle that’s perfectly fine and valid, but all I’m saying is a well build Soukaku is just as good as the other supports in the game. But playstyle matters a lot and if you don’t enjoy it then it’s fine to use someone else
Im completing the pubsec team 100% minus Jane doe (nothing against her i just prefer the others) already have m1 Zhu plus her weapon and plan on doing the same for qingyi once she’s out. Seems like Seth will be on the Jane doe banner which sucks (i wish he was on qingyi banner, oh well) anyways, this team will be my main for a looooong time, wont be spending after this.
Ellen is a lot easier to play for me. I need more practice with Zhu yuan for sure, but it often feels like I accidentally roll into the wrong direction when I’m trying dump all my shots.
for me who have only 1-2 hours per day for game, just spent 200$ for rolling both of them. Zhu Yuan is too hard for combo and cant fit my braindead spam play style, Ellen is more enjoyable :3
Honestly I don't even think Qingyi will end up in the best Zhu Yan team. I genuinely think she'll need an ether stun agent to complete her team with Nicole. For one Nicole will also buff the stunner, and second it'll allow the team to proc corruption way faster to activate the 4p ether set. Though one other team that might get very good result would be to have Zhu Yan with Qingyi and Rina, but I have no idea what performance it'd have.
@@nekonochesire6023 single element teams are just not that good because disorder exists. The only single element team that’s good is Ellen’s and it’s not because of 3 ice units but Moreso Freeze is just really good
@@KetteiThe7th_ Yeah disorder do exist but currently we never proc those on Zhu Yan teams, or like once every blue moon. I'd also argue that to focus on trying to maximize disorder you'd have to make concession in your build so not going the disorder route allows to have the supporting characters to hit stronger. Also iirc, proccing disorder ends the debuff by dealing all the DoT dmg at once, which means you'd be losing on the crit dmg from the 4p ether effect. To be fair though I haven't done calcs or anything like that so I may not realize how much better it is to focus on disorder, and maybe Qingyi will apply a ton of electro, enough that it'll be easy to get a disorder with Zhu Yan. I'll have to see her kit in details anyway, if anything to see what she brings to the table outside of just daze.
Ellen is ❤ and Zhu Yuan is 🍰 no need to fight over this, just remember, we all wanna get these Agents if ever we can, but RAT GANG WILL WAIT FOR ITS MOMMEYH! ASSEMBLE! (Counter: 5)
Got her C1. I regret not getting her signature weapon. Running full Lycaon with Soukaku....man. I remember using Ganyu for the first time and just knowing id use her 100%. Got her C6 R1, ill do the same with Ellen on her rerun.
Acheron is not backloaded. Not even remotely. You start the fight with her ultimate, and you press it multiple times per cycle. It is anything but backloaded. She is consistently overpowered.
even mr pokke says her damage is backloaded, she has to rely on her supports to build her ultimate as her ult is the only thing that does damage, her skill is actually meh in terms of dps
@@KetteiThe7th_ E2S1 Acheron builds her first ultimate with 1st skill, and she always acts first, because of Sparkle. If it is backloaded, then every other character is not loaded at all. And who cares what Mr.whale says?
That’s an absolute lie, your statement would be true if you said most players who follow HSR content went for Acheron E2. Did you know that less than 20% of a gacha games player base actually watches TH-cam videos on the games, meaning that there are millions of players worldwide who did not in fact get E2 and are extremely casual. But I’ll try to be fair and say that by “most” players you mean people who actually are invested into the game pretty heavily. Then I guess that can be a fair statement
I have a feeling that Zhu Yuan’s best team will just match Ellen’s overall, but that only would be for those who are in the later content and know how to maximize her properly. Ellen is very comfortable and meanwhile she still has combos and you can in fact min-max her, you aren’t loosing as much by not doing things properly. Ellen’s team will probably remain just as great due to Lycaon’s incredible performance (seriously, he’s amazing), and will probably get better more valuable as time goes on as content gets more difficult and daze becomes much more valuable. Zhu Yuan is less comfortable to min-max, but her potential is truly undeniable, because of how Shiyu Defense works, it does favor her quite well. Nicole is an amazing support and the fact Zhu Yuan can make use of her is incredible for her, and with her upcoming faction teammate, she will no doubt get an upgrade. Zhu Yuan is just better than almost all other options and she outclasses every other DPS that isn’t Ellen, and right now, you need 2 teams for Shiyu Defense, so I say they both, at the end, would do most quite nicely.
Ellen’s team is great to start and amazing once invested. Lycaon’s stun is awesome and Soukaku’s buff is great mainly because of how much Ellen uses ATK since she’s very stacked on CV. ZY’s team is probably gonna be better with Qingyi and especially QY’s weapon. But then again that’s a huge amount of investment. The good will be that Qingyi is gonna fit into every DPS team iykyk
Nice vid! It was real interesting hearing you talk about front loaded and back loaded damage, I’d never heard those terms before 😮 and it was a nice way to better understand the differences between the two units. Looking at it through the lens of front loaded and consistent damage, it is really hard to say which is better as, like you said in the video, each has its strengths and weaknesses in certain scenarios. But if I had to pick I’d say Ellen’s consistent damage is better, because you can always make use of her high dps on demand, no set up really required. Outside of their roles as damage dealers id still lean towards Ellen right now because, like you also mentioned, Ellen currently has access to the current best team in the game.
I honestly think people should put less importance of "tHiS iS ThE BeSt" because it's quite obviously that who is best changes rapidly in games like these and is always only one patch away from changing again. People like having the "best", but lets face it, that's just an illusion that will last 1-2 patches at most. I can already see myself going for the ultimate Anomaly build up unit, just to realize that they introduced enemies that have super high resistances to those. What people always seem to forget, having the best unit at "the moment" will only allow you to do what is the equivalent of a turn0/1 clear in MoC in Honkai Star Rail It's not going to be the "clear" itself that you are trying to get. Ellen will very likely be able to do so forever once you build her up and use a team for her where she makes sense. I know it's just "clickbait" in your thumbnail, but it really bothers me how content creators so very often push for the new thing and increase FOMO through stuff like that. In my opinion, your ending of the video here is basically the "message" you should put at the front. Because you are 100% correct.
Yea it’s just clickbait but unfortunately, if you did TH-cam you would quickly understand that videos that aren’t clickbait in the thumbnail only work for people who are already established but when your still trying to build up your space like I am you have to rely on clickbait or you will just struggle to compete. I understand your frustrations with it but it’s genuinely the only way smaller TH-cam can compete consistently and that’s also why I put that message in my video at the end to make sure people understand that I’m not saying you have to get either one to enjoy the game
my plan is ellen will carry me in the early game once i reach lvl 50 by the next month Jane Doe will come out and be absolutely crack because if any thing she just piper on steroid faster attack big AOE and ability to crit on assault
Well I mean I do get some special stuff now from hoyo coming soon, if that’s good enough? Or did you think I meant like other games collabing with ZZZ? lol I said this week if there was big game collabs we would have all known about it way before hand, so i thought it was obvious I meant myself with other TH-camrs
All i'ma say is that Ellen really is HER! ZZZ is my first gatcha game and like most people, I had my doubts in the beginning with Ellen but omg! Clearing withering garden on the 11/11 difficulty with her yesterday, along with lychaon and nicole really made me a better player! She has so many invulnerability frames, can deflect bullets and is probably the fastest unit in the game. I particularly LOVE her running animation during the roaming state and her giant scissor weapon haha. Absolutely badass! I skipped zhuyan because she feels a little boring by comparison and cant run like Ellen can. I'm also not a fan of gun wielding dps-es haha. But I'ma get Qingyi tho...i like electric characters and I have plugboo
As a (currently) Ellen main, I really hope that when Miyabi releases she doesn't just outright out-DPSes her out of the meta. As far as powercreep goes, since this game is more action based, I think it's overall safer than something like HSR, but I guess we'll only be able to tell that later on. Also Miyabi shoudl totally be Fire instead of Ice, girl literally fights with blue flames.
“Ellen Joe is by far the most consistent DPS in the game”, I disagree. Ellen Joe can only do high dps when she has enhanced basic stacks. Even the best players have to take time out of their rotation to rebuild stacks. Granted, she still does good dmg while building stacks, that doesn’t change the fact that she still needs to build stacks. Soldier 11 on the other hand has access to an infinite window of high dps, the only thing you need is the skill to consistently pull off her infused attacks. Soldier 11 is the most consistent DPS in the game, y’all gotta stop sleeping on Soldier 11 man…
soldier 11 is good, but shes not better than Ellen and thats a fact. Yes if you play S11 perfectly with skill then she wont fall to far behind but she still is worse overall. And you are overexaggerating imo on how hard it is to keep stacks with ellen as Im in the later floors of Red Shiyu and its never been an issue, and I'm at M0. SO yes I will agree with you S11 is underrated because of the skill needed to play her and shes better than alot of people think, but Ellen is just overall more consistent than s11. Unless s11 gets a cracked support in the future that can push her to a ne level
@@KetteiThe7th_as a soldier 11 main, I agree. Ellen also has a perfect synergy team and her best team has the best stunner in the game and arguably the best support for this specific team outside of an absolutely cracked out perfect drive disk Rina. Ellen’s weapon is also the best weapon in the game for how much it benefits her specifically although brimstone is really strong as well and is the only reason I decided to main S11 in the first place (pulled both as my first S rank anything second day on the game) Ellen is just the best all around character in the game. Kinda hope Miyabi is fire so she can just take S11s spot but that’s probably copium 😂 would be crazy if her kit had both ice and fire in it or if she was the first unit that could synergize with both elements
I considered Ellen to be my strongest DPS for a while, but then after struggling to complete a Shiyu Defense stage I decided to swap my teams around and let Zhu Yuan take out the harder stage that wasn't her damage type I realized how wrong I was. Even with two F2P A-rank agents, Zhu Yuan's team is still incredibly strong. IMAGINE how good she will be when you have Qingyi and a future S-Tier Ether Support to replace Nicole.
@KetteiThe7th_ Everyone is dunking on Anby and singing the praise of Nicole, but let's not forget they are both F2P starting team units. This is Mihoyo, not Blue Archive (where some of the low tiers are best in the game when built). Nicole is gonna get powercrept before too long. I bet when that happens Zhu Yuan is gonna become INSANE.
@KetteiThe7th_ I didn't think they'd give Ellen competition so soon either, but it looks like we may have Miyabi in a month or two. Not sure anyone on the roster is safe 😅
Eh but here’s the thing, Miyabi isn’t guaranteed to be an attack agent, she can be one of three things Attack Stun Anomaly And all three have high chance, so it’s up in the air if she will be one or not, if I had to give my honest guess I would say attack or stun but only time will tell
Also, since this isn't a turn based game, but an action game - you can expect Ellen and ZY be able to clear all the content years later. Hell, even in HSR, if you invest enough - Seele or JY can clear the newest content. So unless you just can't enjoy the game without playing the strongest characters up to date - there's no real reason to follow meta
this video isnt even about meta... its just comparing their strengths and weaknesses and ive stated multiple times in many of my videos that both will be good for a long ass time
My comment wasn't about your video. It was for the stupid metaslaves who arleady doomposting them and saying that they gonna get powercrept in a few updates so there's no reason to get them @@KetteiThe7th_
it looks like ellen is a bit conflicting with lycaon for field space If we play ellen as a burst dps, we want lycaon to be on the field most of the time, but we lose ellen's potential. Zhu Yuan is better at this with his stun character, forcing him to be constantly present on the field. We just have to wait for such a character and it will probably be really hard for ellen to compete
With the way I approach SD right now I don't think Lycaon ever takes field time unless you have energy for EX Special Attacks. You're right in what you didn't say but implied instead: Ellen wants to take up a lot of field time because she still puts out good damage outside of stun windows. With these absolute Daze sponges in SD it generally feels a lot more comfy to replenish and burn Flash Freeze charges as Ellen then compared to Zhu Yuan's Enhanced Shotshells, but this cycle favors them both anyway so they're never meant to be on the same team. EDIT: Realized I didn't really tackle your statement. In a scenario where you can't almost instantly stun your opponent, you typically will not be spending any time on Lycaon, since Ellen still puts out consistent damage at all stages of a given fight. I'd argue that skillfully using your Defensive Assists as Lycaon and Soukaku are more important, and being able to cycle back to using Ellen as quickly as possible. I'm A-B-B on Shiyu Critical Node, I could be wrong
I bet people are hoping that a Miyabi to be a dps. So they can move on but look at Jane doe then boommmmm she could be an ice anomaly. Then you have to deal with Ellen Joe probably for the rest of the year
@@KetteiThe7th_ I can see her being a stun too I just feel like, if you look at frostbite and shatter And if it procs it all the time. Whoever is ice anomaly will be invaluable for a while
For now, yes. After a while, no. There will come a time where it won't be that simple anymore and team rotations, positioning, and mechanics will matter more than simply saying "Use ice character for ice weak enemy." They'll introduce complex mobs and bosses that will "nerf" characters by making their rotations and playstyle weak against said mobs, even if they are weak from the element of that character, i.e. bosses that regenerate shields fast so that certain characters can't get their full combo/rotation off, or mobs that simply cant be grouped together by crowd control, etc.
@@KetteiThe7th_ Do u play other hoyo games like HSR or Genshin? For example, it's a waste of time debating which one is better between Acheron & Firefly, coz they have their own enemies / targets
Ima day one Hi3, Genshin, and Star rail player. I’ve been playing gacha games for 10 years now so yes I’m used to all of hoyo games and much more outside of it, it’s been my main genres for a long ass time
If you had to choose 1 and skip 1, which one you choose to have a better experience and harder to get powercreep in the future? Really need to know cause I'm going to buy an account but only have enough budget for 1 limited character and its signature.
Even if Ellen's team is better once we get Qingyi, I'd still say Zhu Yuan is superior just for being F2P friendly since you can use Anby if you don't have Qingyi while Ellen really wants Lycaon for his amazing additional ability, ice application, and great stuns. I'm personally waiting for an Ether stunner to pair with Zhu Yuan and Nicole because of how Ether resonia work in Hollow Zero.
@@KetteiThe7th_ I disagree with this... Eventhough, ellen, soukaku is stuck with lycone it doesn't mean you can't add anby there to fill his place.... she will still consistently perform normally as any stunner and still dish out stuns on demand. People forget the blessing called: Ease of use for unskilled players. Zhu yuan complicated kit is something that frustrates me in a sense she moves a whole lot that it gets confusing being unable to properly see what the heck are the enemies doing or if I'm actually doing things correctly. Ellen kit doesn't have this complexity and this simplicity means she will perform overall at her best no matter how terrible you are as a player as long as you know her mechanics. Zhu yuan on the other hands, you need to properly time your burst or else you will end up wasting an opportunity to explode the enemy when the opportunity shows up for her to throw all her loaded bullet into the enemy. In a sense: Decision making for Zhu yuan is more crucial compared to Ellen who can just easily decide whether to go all in or bail a risky position. Both are good at their job which is doing damage. Just remember that ease of use matters a lot in many situations.
@@shsuz-o4z Yeah, also remember Lycaon is a standard character, which means you can get him from limited banner and standard banner, or just simply wait for 300 rolls to pick him. while QingYi the only way to get her is pull on limited banner, for f2p or less spend players I think it's more difficult.
@@shsuz-o4z I really don't get the overexaggeration on how hard zhu yuan is to use, yes she's "harder" to use than ellen but to say shes hard is just kinda wild to me. She is still an extremely simple and easy character to understand and play like how do people say she's hard? I will never understand
IMO, Zhu Yuan felt a lot better in the trial period. But having just cleared Withering Garden 11 with her character at level 50, her animations can be pretty greedy at times and frequently got me in trouble. I think Billy is actually better at not getting hit with how quickly his crouching shot can be cancelled into rolling shot, whereas Zhu always has to finish her animations before a side input will take affect, so you can’t reactively dodge with them as much as just incidentally dodging with them. Normal dodging of course still works, but there’s just a much higher skill ceiling with Zhu Yuan than I had thought.
totally agreed their playstyle and rotation are totally different i have both of them ellen is much easier to use zhu needs some good practise and team rotation Ellen has smooth and biginner friendly whereas zhu yuan will be good if you are good in the game a bit dependent on skill gameplay she has some high burst output.Good vid👍
More consistency is always win for any situation rather than short time period (if you fail to add buff / debuff its pretty significant drop a dmg within short period). If the enemy has long daze bar, its absolutely drop ZY dmg compare how ellen joe can handle this short or long daze bar enemy
i agree, im glad theres ppl that notice this. different bosses/enemies will make a dps shine more or less. Ellen has also been very fun to just casually clear whatever I need, where zhuyuan i need to put in some work. farming for skill lvl mats is one example. enemies are so easy i can camp ellen and clear in 20 seconds. zhuyuan is much "harder/more effort" to achieve this solo 20 second clear
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[1.0 ZZZ] The Secrets of Hollow Zero - A Zenless Zone Zero Theory](/img/n.gif)
Pin me
Done
Officer Zhu Yen, can you please pin me to the ground? I've been a bad bangboo...
@@Wart1076📸🤨
@@piggletimpact eh-nah Eh-Neh? (Horny jail is just a room?)
I was playing with Zhu Yuan today, and discovered that the roll she does when moving while doing her charge attacks counts as a dodge, now weaving dodges into charge attacks into rolls feels so satisfying
Yep!
It literally stated on her skill tho? That when you dash when using suppressive mode, it count as dash attack, that's why cc who said you shouldn't bother leveling her dodge is wrong
It does have the same multiplier on the same lv, if you didn't lv it up, you have to avoid dashing when you use suppressive mode since you'll deal less dmg since you didn't lv it up 😂
@@Joo00393 I'm a Yugioh player, not reading enough is a debuff I have.
Miyabi is coming home I am extremely good at waiting. Plus section 6 uniforms are badass.
Good luck!
The true Queen of DPS is Big Ben But Bigger
BIG BEN
Ben Bigga
King, not queen lmao 😂
I think whats underrated is zhu yuans ability to use various supports
She can run ben bigger lucy, lycaon soukaku, lycaon rina, koleda lucy, etc
As long as the team has a support, she can run those teams
Ellen Joe however is kinda locked into an archetype limiting flexibility
ive said that about zhu yuan in both of my previous videos, i drove that point home hard
Ellen’s special sprint is what keeps her above Zhu Yuan for me, and probably will for a good while, since I’m all about mobility in games. That being said, I still enjoy Zhu Yuan almost as much. I think I need more time to better weave her built-in dodges casually.
Just take time for Zhu yuan you’ll get it down
My favorite part about Zhu Yuan is all of her different combos. While it can be argued that ultimately only a very small number of them is ever viable, it still shows a glimpse of a new kind of skill ceiling that we only ever fully see in fighting games, and teases what kind of gameplay depth we might want to expect from future characters.
and then i negative edged all over the place
@@juliendreemurr654goober cancel when hoyo?
I don't know if this is sarcasm or coping very hard
Zhu Yuan is currently not as good as Ellen but Zhu Yuan will get better as we go through the rest of the N.E.P.S. Faction and potentially unlock some of her best teammates in the upcoming patch so Ellen might definitely beat Zhu Yuan in dps soon!
It’ll still be close but having either one is still amazing!
Ellen combo, chain attack and ultimate feels really satisfying. Zhu Yuan feels stylish af. I love both.
amen to that
Ellen is so smooth and elegant, while Zhu Yuan is fast af and supressive, her gun-kata (combining guns and martial arts) is amazing. Had a blast clearing SD with them
Sound like you having fun!
I think Nekomata is better (completely unbiased btw)
not biased at all I see LOL
I have really just become a master ellen player. There is soo much stun , freeze, I frames , combined with her High speed, she feels untouchable. Still having to get used to zhu yuan, been getting rocked a little bit. She is super fun though and I know I will get better.
yep just keep up the practice!
Ellen has amazing survivability on top of her damage output. Not only is her mobility very high with Roaming State (which also comes with dodge frames), her EX Special has anti-interrupt and EX Special 2 has i-frames. Charged Scissor Strike has a high interrupt threshold and gives her +40% defense while charging.
But best of all, when she has freeze stacks, BA3 will teleport behind the enemy. Not only does this do a lot of damage (esp with Lycaon and Soukaku/Rina's buffs active), she can go from EX Special or EX Special 2 straight into BA3, meaning you can abuse both the i-frames and the repositioning, which will leave most bosses swinging at empty air while Ellen teleports behind them to wail on them. Since EX Special gives 1 Freeze charge, you don't need to worry about keeping max stacks, either, you will almost always have access to this combo as long as you have enough energy for an EX Special.
this is true
Fr Ellen is STACKED
As much as I love Zhu Yuan's play style. Ellen has too many utilities that it's kinda unfair.
@@juanstar Right!? That's what i'm saying 😭😭😭
Thats why I love Ellen.
I'm waiting for an ether anomaly, I don't really like zhu yuan's playstyle. Also calydon faction
thats fine, I hope they come soon for you!
And then theres me, c6 anton. Drillin and engaging my inner gurren lagan
LOL
bro believe in Anton who believe in him
Both Ellen and Zhu are amazing and incredibly fun. I curse the ZZZ Dev team for releasing two great DPS characters at the start of the game's life.
I did use my wallet(no worries, I got plenty to pay the bills and spend some without my wallet crying). They both were hard pity, lol. But they are worth every penny I spent on my main account. As someone who enjoys action hacknslash combat, both of them have been two of my favorite playstyle in action gameplay and video games in general. No joke, either. Ellen and Zhu feel satisfying and addictive to play.
With both of them, I don't think I feel want another DPS till Miyabi, and I'll have Polychromes saved up from events, new quests, and story chapters by then.
Even if they fall off later with endgame content, I know storywise they'll continue to be good.
yep picking either one is good and having both is great!
@@KetteiThe7th_I hope they keep the momentum with such character releases. I am excited for future characters and their cool gameplay.
Bc of this vid I'll now whale for Qing Yi
deadge
I only use zhu yuan because I have no ellen joe 😅
But still, zhu yuan is more eazy to use even surpressor attack is eazy to manage
lol, theres multiple people in the comments saying zhu yuan is harder to use which i dont understand, i think she's "harder" to use than ellen but I still wouldnt classfiy her as a hard unit to play
I love that you guys are producing more & more discussion/reflective content that caters towards Z3 and really gives players another way to think about the game. Heck. YES!
Amen to that brotha
Honestly speaking, some folks have been too quick to think about end game, damage output and such.
For me, I've already got Soldier 11 (my first 5 star), Grace (my initial 50/50 loss), and Zhu Yuan as my 5 stars.
Now I'm just more concerned in building supports and slowly fixing up a full second team whilst waiting for more story content.
That’s perfectly fine
@KetteiThe7th_ OH, I think it'd be better if you make a cautionary video against resource spending for the newer players.
Forcing to make full level 50 teams quickly grinds everything down.
Only the Bangboo mats are somewhat slow to exhaust if you build 3 of the little buggers to swap around.
Ok I’ll look into it
Truly glad I found this channel, I am so glad for a calm normal discussion from someone who understands the game and is able to get across good info without bs or needless drama flairs
ty man means alot!
I love ellens mobility. Theres been multiple times where ive been able to move around an eneny attack or time her i-frames to power through an enemy attack. Plus the more i learn and utilize frame cancels the more utility I find in her kit. My favorite interaction being running into an enemy then charging and frame canceling her scissors charger while switching into my stunner so that i can stun the enemy before buffing with my support then switching into ellen with her full stacks
Yes Ellen is very flexible in her playstyle!
These are my thought on the converstation for these two, let me know your thoughts down below!
both gyattt
😏
Would having Ellen and Zhu yuan be better than just having Ellen? (I don't have lycaon and I'm F2P) but my account is currently lacking a full team other than electric and I absolutely despise using grace in general so some help would be appreciated (I am indeed that one guy in zzz general)
Yes it would but just ask yourself do you want the future characters more.
I have both with signatures, Zhu yuan feels a lot stronger than grace+anton electric team, but do keep in mind that ive been testing only in SD that favors ice and ether currently
Grace is an amazing char, but with out rina her performance falls off
Also Ellen doesn't need lycaon to be good, I don't have one and doing just fine
Ellen - anby - soukaku
Grace - piper - lucy
If you build them max potential, you can defeat shiyu deff 17 (A or B rank)
@@FantasyAeon I did get piper recently so I'll look into that second team Tysm 🙏
@@reaver8440 the problem with not having lycaon is that I need Anby with soukaku and Ellen, but then I don't have anyone to go with grace and Anton because I don't have rina and I basically only have soukaku and Ellen actually built
First of all yayyyyyy my waifu is strongest so far! I’m so happy, and second there’s also something DIFFRENT between them, Zhu yuan has a gun so while running its not possible to counter the attacks such as rapid bullets, but she can dodge, meanwhile Ellen Joe can slice away every single bullet if u run while they are being shot
lol Ellen joe the goat
Bro is playing tekken music in a zzz video, you know he’s negative edging and Kara canceling everywhere.
About 70% of my videos have tekken music, way before the Iyo thing happened
As an owner of both, Ellen is more consistent. ZY is a bit too flighty but her gameplay is fun. Qinyi is gonna take her to another level though cause as it stands rn Anby feels terrible to play in her team.
Qingyi will be great!
Skipped Ellen, tried to roll for ZY, lost the 50/50. Not pulling again until Miyabi.
Good luck yo ya!
@@KetteiThe7th_ Thank you. But so far I've been having nothing but bad luck lol. Having no dps for second team is suffering.
I think Soukaku is just not as good as people think.
CN used Rina for a good while and then people switched to Nicole. But since Nicole is now stolen by Zhu Yuan's team then if you plan to run both teams for Shiyu Defence then I think Rina is your next best in the support slot.
Def shred / Pen seems worlds better damage wise than a type damage buff.
this is only true for PEN if you have reached the dmg%/attack values that start to give dimnishing returns, if you havent then Soukaku will buff more than Rina, so u just need alot of stats for Rina to be better but it is possible
@KetteiThe7th_ Honestly, Soukaku felt great back when I was doing lvl 40 content, but now I really think it's time to retire her.
Another advantage with Rina she can basically be off-field 99% of the time like Nicole. Just in to launch an EX and get the quick assist then back out.
Meanwhile Soukaku is spinning for like a solid 3 seconds before planting the flag.
@@goblez5900 your soukaku must not be well built, which nothing is wrong with that. But soukaku makes up with her field time by also doing great damage herself, and 90% of players that say she's lackluster dont have a well built soukaku with high leveld talents. Now u can say this is bad as she needs more investment thanother supports, that's fair to say. But I don't think it's fair to say that she's overall worse, cause a well invested soukaku can do alot for a team
@KetteiThe7th_ Her attacks just seem so slow and sluggish I'd rather not have her on field lol.
I'll be honest, I didn't bring her up past lvl.40. I had switched over to running Nicole on the Ice team just before Zhu Yuan came out so never got around to building her any more than that.
If you don’t like Soukaku playstyle that’s perfectly fine and valid, but all I’m saying is a well build Soukaku is just as good as the other supports in the game. But playstyle matters a lot and if you don’t enjoy it then it’s fine to use someone else
if Miyabi doesn't exist i would've pull for Ellen
@@khunneth3514 at good luck on your Miyabi!
I think Zhu Yuan is more BACK loaded 😂
I SEE WHAT U MEAN LOL
Im completing the pubsec team 100% minus Jane doe (nothing against her i just prefer the others) already have m1 Zhu plus her weapon and plan on doing the same for qingyi once she’s out. Seems like Seth will be on the Jane doe banner which sucks (i wish he was on qingyi banner, oh well) anyways, this team will be my main for a looooong time, wont be spending after this.
Nice to hear! But I would be careful cause you could accidentally get Jane going for Seth if what u say is true about the banners
@@KetteiThe7th_ well, if that happens then i guess ill have a Jane on my account lol she’ll work great on my nekomata team.
Ellen is a lot easier to play for me. I need more practice with Zhu yuan for sure, but it often feels like I accidentally roll into the wrong direction when I’m trying dump all my shots.
will just take time to get used to is all!
for me who have only 1-2 hours per day for game, just spent 200$ for rolling both of them. Zhu Yuan is too hard for combo and cant fit my braindead spam play style, Ellen is more enjoyable :3
what makes you say she's too hard to combo with? I'm curious to see your reasoning, is it the movement with her basic attacks?
@@KetteiThe7th_ ya, i not really get used with her movement basic attack. Just my personal skill issue i think. And im bad at setting burst too :(
@@JustJaka just takes practice, I believe in you
Honestly I don't even think Qingyi will end up in the best Zhu Yan team. I genuinely think she'll need an ether stun agent to complete her team with Nicole. For one Nicole will also buff the stunner, and second it'll allow the team to proc corruption way faster to activate the 4p ether set.
Though one other team that might get very good result would be to have Zhu Yan with Qingyi and Rina, but I have no idea what performance it'd have.
@@nekonochesire6023 single element teams are just not that good because disorder exists. The only single element team that’s good is Ellen’s and it’s not because of 3 ice units but Moreso Freeze is just really good
@@KetteiThe7th_ Yeah disorder do exist but currently we never proc those on Zhu Yan teams, or like once every blue moon.
I'd also argue that to focus on trying to maximize disorder you'd have to make concession in your build so not going the disorder route allows to have the supporting characters to hit stronger. Also iirc, proccing disorder ends the debuff by dealing all the DoT dmg at once, which means you'd be losing on the crit dmg from the 4p ether effect.
To be fair though I haven't done calcs or anything like that so I may not realize how much better it is to focus on disorder, and maybe Qingyi will apply a ton of electro, enough that it'll be easy to get a disorder with Zhu Yan. I'll have to see her kit in details anyway, if anything to see what she brings to the table outside of just daze.
I have early access and will showcase a qingyi video in a day or two
Why have one of them if u can have both
@@juliangasparin5492 agreed
Just play both 5head
agreed
Ellen is ❤ and Zhu Yuan is 🍰 no need to fight over this, just remember, we all wanna get these Agents if ever we can, but RAT GANG WILL WAIT FOR ITS MOMMEYH! ASSEMBLE! (Counter: 5)
ASSEMBLE
Great vid. I skipped Ellen for Zhu. Highly likely to get Xingyi and Jane without breaking f2p.
great to hear!
I use them both
Based
Got her C1. I regret not getting her signature weapon. Running full Lycaon with Soukaku....man. I remember using Ganyu for the first time and just knowing id use her 100%. Got her C6 R1, ill do the same with Ellen on her rerun.
ay wish ya luck!
Acheron is not backloaded. Not even remotely. You start the fight with her ultimate, and you press it multiple times per cycle. It is anything but backloaded. She is consistently overpowered.
even mr pokke says her damage is backloaded, she has to rely on her supports to build her ultimate as her ult is the only thing that does damage, her skill is actually meh in terms of dps
@@KetteiThe7th_ E2S1 Acheron builds her first ultimate with 1st skill, and she always acts first, because of Sparkle. If it is backloaded, then every other character is not loaded at all. And who cares what Mr.whale says?
Bruh listen to what u just said… E2 ofc E2 isn’t backloaded I’m talking what 95% of players have which is E0…..
@@KetteiThe7th_ most players who went for Acheron got E2.
That’s an absolute lie, your statement would be true if you said most players who follow HSR content went for Acheron E2. Did you know that less than 20% of a gacha games player base actually watches TH-cam videos on the games, meaning that there are millions of players worldwide who did not in fact get E2 and are extremely casual. But I’ll try to be fair and say that by “most” players you mean people who actually are invested into the game pretty heavily. Then I guess that can be a fair statement
I have a feeling that Zhu Yuan’s best team will just match Ellen’s overall, but that only would be for those who are in the later content and know how to maximize her properly. Ellen is very comfortable and meanwhile she still has combos and you can in fact min-max her, you aren’t loosing as much by not doing things properly. Ellen’s team will probably remain just as great due to Lycaon’s incredible performance (seriously, he’s amazing), and will probably get better more valuable as time goes on as content gets more difficult and daze becomes much more valuable. Zhu Yuan is less comfortable to min-max, but her potential is truly undeniable, because of how Shiyu Defense works, it does favor her quite well. Nicole is an amazing support and the fact Zhu Yuan can make use of her is incredible for her, and with her upcoming faction teammate, she will no doubt get an upgrade. Zhu Yuan is just better than almost all other options and she outclasses every other DPS that isn’t Ellen, and right now, you need 2 teams for Shiyu Defense, so I say they both, at the end, would do most quite nicely.
yes, having one is good and having both is great!
Ellen’s team is great to start and amazing once invested. Lycaon’s stun is awesome and Soukaku’s buff is great mainly because of how much Ellen uses ATK since she’s very stacked on CV.
ZY’s team is probably gonna be better with Qingyi and especially QY’s weapon. But then again that’s a huge amount of investment. The good will be that Qingyi is gonna fit into every DPS team iykyk
*wink wink*
Miyabi will eventually replace Ellen in her own team 😔
We will see
They might change her element to fire or lightning
@@supernieva2419 nah that's not happening
@@KetteiThe7th_ They changed Soukau from wind to ice, changed Nicole from physical to ether. Why won't they do the same for Miyabi?
@@KetteiThe7th_ if we base on the cutscenes her attack looks like infuse blue flame and ice attack dont do explosions. Either ice anomaly or fire.
Nice vid! It was real interesting hearing you talk about front loaded and back loaded damage, I’d never heard those terms before 😮 and it was a nice way to better understand the differences between the two units.
Looking at it through the lens of front loaded and consistent damage, it is really hard to say which is better as, like you said in the video, each has its strengths and weaknesses in certain scenarios. But if I had to pick I’d say Ellen’s consistent damage is better, because you can always make use of her high dps on demand, no set up really required. Outside of their roles as damage dealers id still lean towards Ellen right now because, like you also mentioned, Ellen currently has access to the current best team in the game.
Yes this exactly, but qingyi can shake it up in the future
And then here comes Miyabi.
lol she’s coming isn’t she
@@KetteiThe7th_ it's the never ending cycle of who's the top dps.
I honestly think people should put less importance of "tHiS iS ThE BeSt" because it's quite obviously that who is best changes rapidly in games like these and is always only one patch away from changing again.
People like having the "best", but lets face it, that's just an illusion that will last 1-2 patches at most.
I can already see myself going for the ultimate Anomaly build up unit, just to realize that they introduced enemies that have super high resistances to those.
What people always seem to forget, having the best unit at "the moment" will only allow you to do what is the equivalent of a turn0/1 clear in MoC in Honkai Star Rail
It's not going to be the "clear" itself that you are trying to get.
Ellen will very likely be able to do so forever once you build her up and use a team for her where she makes sense.
I know it's just "clickbait" in your thumbnail, but it really bothers me how content creators so very often push for the new thing and increase FOMO through stuff like that.
In my opinion, your ending of the video here is basically the "message" you should put at the front. Because you are 100% correct.
Yea it’s just clickbait but unfortunately, if you did TH-cam you would quickly understand that videos that aren’t clickbait in the thumbnail only work for people who are already established but when your still trying to build up your space like I am you have to rely on clickbait or you will just struggle to compete. I understand your frustrations with it but it’s genuinely the only way smaller TH-cam can compete consistently and that’s also why I put that message in my video at the end to make sure people understand that I’m not saying you have to get either one to enjoy the game
my plan is ellen will carry me in the early game once i reach lvl 50 by the next month Jane Doe will come out and be absolutely crack because if any thing she just piper on steroid faster attack big AOE and ability to crit on assault
Good luck to ya!
what collabs are you talking about?
Got one with SOL on Wednesday and 4 others in Saturday, check my community post for more info
@@KetteiThe7th_ i thought in game collab smh
Well I mean I do get some special stuff now from hoyo coming soon, if that’s good enough? Or did you think I meant like other games collabing with ZZZ? lol I said this week if there was big game collabs we would have all known about it way before hand, so i thought it was obvious I meant myself with other TH-camrs
The true answer was Jane Doe
Burnice 😏
@@KetteiThe7th_ Based 😏
Amazing and informative video as allways
ty!
@@KetteiThe7th_ 👍
As long as Hoyoverse blessed my account then everyone is the best because im a Wise man 😎
LOL
All i'ma say is that Ellen really is HER! ZZZ is my first gatcha game and like most people, I had my doubts in the beginning with Ellen but omg! Clearing withering garden on the 11/11 difficulty with her yesterday, along with lychaon and nicole really made me a better player! She has so many invulnerability frames, can deflect bullets and is probably the fastest unit in the game. I particularly LOVE her running animation during the roaming state and her giant scissor weapon haha. Absolutely badass! I skipped zhuyan because she feels a little boring by comparison and cant run like Ellen can. I'm also not a fan of gun wielding dps-es haha. But I'ma get Qingyi tho...i like electric characters and I have plugboo
Yea Ellen is goated frfr
@@KetteiThe7th_ Yup frfr! Haha
As a (currently) Ellen main, I really hope that when Miyabi releases she doesn't just outright out-DPSes her out of the meta. As far as powercreep goes, since this game is more action based, I think it's overall safer than something like HSR, but I guess we'll only be able to tell that later on.
Also Miyabi shoudl totally be Fire instead of Ice, girl literally fights with blue flames.
I think miyabi has the potential to be a stun as well replacing lyacon instead of ellen, and nah shes definitely going to be ice
She can be electric dps or ice anomaly
“Ellen Joe is by far the most consistent DPS in the game”, I disagree. Ellen Joe can only do high dps when she has enhanced basic stacks. Even the best players have to take time out of their rotation to rebuild stacks. Granted, she still does good dmg while building stacks, that doesn’t change the fact that she still needs to build stacks. Soldier 11 on the other hand has access to an infinite window of high dps, the only thing you need is the skill to consistently pull off her infused attacks. Soldier 11 is the most consistent DPS in the game, y’all gotta stop sleeping on Soldier 11 man…
soldier 11 is good, but shes not better than Ellen and thats a fact. Yes if you play S11 perfectly with skill then she wont fall to far behind but she still is worse overall. And you are overexaggerating imo on how hard it is to keep stacks with ellen as Im in the later floors of Red Shiyu and its never been an issue, and I'm at M0. SO yes I will agree with you S11 is underrated because of the skill needed to play her and shes better than alot of people think, but Ellen is just overall more consistent than s11. Unless s11 gets a cracked support in the future that can push her to a ne level
@@KetteiThe7th_as a soldier 11 main, I agree. Ellen also has a perfect synergy team and her best team has the best stunner in the game and arguably the best support for this specific team outside of an absolutely cracked out perfect drive disk Rina. Ellen’s weapon is also the best weapon in the game for how much it benefits her specifically although brimstone is really strong as well and is the only reason I decided to main S11 in the first place (pulled both as my first S rank anything second day on the game)
Ellen is just the best all around character in the game. Kinda hope Miyabi is fire so she can just take S11s spot but that’s probably copium 😂 would be crazy if her kit had both ice and fire in it or if she was the first unit that could synergize with both elements
Baseless Anby Slander
I will just use Zhu Yuan with Anby and Qingyi,and nothing will stop me
(ok maybe the 50/50 can)
Because of this you will now lose the 50/50, I'm srry I don't make the rules, I just enforce them
@@KetteiThe7th_ *runs to Zhu Yuan banner* All according to plan,time to get C6 Nicole and guarantee Qingyi
@@ShinobiShibe lol
I considered Ellen to be my strongest DPS for a while, but then after struggling to complete a Shiyu Defense stage I decided to swap my teams around and let Zhu Yuan take out the harder stage that wasn't her damage type I realized how wrong I was.
Even with two F2P A-rank agents, Zhu Yuan's team is still incredibly strong. IMAGINE how good she will be when you have Qingyi and a future S-Tier Ether Support to replace Nicole.
Yea Qingyi will be amazing with Zhu yuan
@KetteiThe7th_ Everyone is dunking on Anby and singing the praise of Nicole, but let's not forget they are both F2P starting team units.
This is Mihoyo, not Blue Archive (where some of the low tiers are best in the game when built). Nicole is gonna get powercrept before too long. I bet when that happens Zhu Yuan is gonna become INSANE.
@@goblez5900 I actually dont see them making another ether support for a long time, probably not till next year tbh
@KetteiThe7th_ I didn't think they'd give Ellen competition so soon either, but it looks like we may have Miyabi in a month or two.
Not sure anyone on the roster is safe 😅
Eh but here’s the thing, Miyabi isn’t guaranteed to be an attack agent, she can be one of three things
Attack
Stun
Anomaly
And all three have high chance, so it’s up in the air if she will be one or not, if I had to give my honest guess I would say attack or stun but only time will tell
Also, since this isn't a turn based game, but an action game - you can expect Ellen and ZY be able to clear all the content years later. Hell, even in HSR, if you invest enough - Seele or JY can clear the newest content. So unless you just can't enjoy the game without playing the strongest characters up to date - there's no real reason to follow meta
this video isnt even about meta... its just comparing their strengths and weaknesses and ive stated multiple times in many of my videos that both will be good for a long ass time
My comment wasn't about your video. It was for the stupid metaslaves who arleady doomposting them and saying that they gonna get powercrept in a few updates so there's no reason to get them @@KetteiThe7th_
Yea nah their gonna be fine for a long time I agree
it looks like ellen is a bit conflicting with lycaon for field space
If we play ellen as a burst dps, we want lycaon to be on the field most of the time, but we lose ellen's potential.
Zhu Yuan is better at this with his stun character, forcing him to be constantly present on the field.
We just have to wait for such a character and it will probably be really hard for ellen to compete
Hmm I can see what you’re saying but I don’t think it’s as much of an issue as you think. Only in specific fights could this potentially be a problem
With the way I approach SD right now I don't think Lycaon ever takes field time unless you have energy for EX Special Attacks.
You're right in what you didn't say but implied instead: Ellen wants to take up a lot of field time because she still puts out good damage outside of stun windows.
With these absolute Daze sponges in SD it generally feels a lot more comfy to replenish and burn Flash Freeze charges as Ellen then compared to Zhu Yuan's Enhanced Shotshells, but this cycle favors them both anyway so they're never meant to be on the same team.
EDIT: Realized I didn't really tackle your statement. In a scenario where you can't almost instantly stun your opponent, you typically will not be spending any time on Lycaon, since Ellen still puts out consistent damage at all stages of a given fight.
I'd argue that skillfully using your Defensive Assists as Lycaon and Soukaku are more important, and being able to cycle back to using Ellen as quickly as possible. I'm A-B-B on Shiyu Critical Node, I could be wrong
I bet people are hoping that a Miyabi to be a dps. So they can move on but look at Jane doe then boommmmm she could be an ice anomaly. Then you have to deal with Ellen Joe probably for the rest of the year
i think miyabi will be a stun or an attack imo
@@KetteiThe7th_ I can see her being a stun too I just feel like, if you look at frostbite and shatter
And if it procs it all the time. Whoever is ice anomaly will be invaluable for a while
I feel that
You're thinking too much... Use Ellen vs ICE weakness... Use ZY vc ETHER weakness... Simple bruh
You do realize that most enemies weak to ice are also weak to ether…
For now, yes. After a while, no. There will come a time where it won't be that simple anymore and team rotations, positioning, and mechanics will matter more than simply saying "Use ice character for ice weak enemy." They'll introduce complex mobs and bosses that will "nerf" characters by making their rotations and playstyle weak against said mobs, even if they are weak from the element of that character, i.e. bosses that regenerate shields fast so that certain characters can't get their full combo/rotation off, or mobs that simply cant be grouped together by crowd control, etc.
@@KetteiThe7th_ Do u play other hoyo games like HSR or Genshin? For example, it's a waste of time debating which one is better between Acheron & Firefly, coz they have their own enemies / targets
For early game, imo, it's better to skip signature w-engines and focus on limited units to cover enemies' weakness as many as possible...
Ima day one Hi3, Genshin, and Star rail player. I’ve been playing gacha games for 10 years now so yes I’m used to all of hoyo games and much more outside of it, it’s been my main genres for a long ass time
If you had to choose 1 and skip 1, which one you choose to have a better experience and harder to get powercreep in the future?
Really need to know cause I'm going to buy an account but only have enough budget for 1 limited character and its signature.
I would just suggest not buying an accouint as hoyo cracks down on those and if they find out theyll ban you. I dont think its worth the risk
@@KetteiThe7th_ i appreciate your advise ^^ however which would you like to choose between Ellen and ZhuYuan?
What support agents and stuns do you have?
@@KetteiThe7th_ 1 account has Lycaon and Rina with Ellen with Sig, the other 1 has Koleda but Zhu was M1 with Sig 😁
@@tamho6202Wait but that means u already pulled the characters.. 😅
Even if Ellen's team is better once we get Qingyi, I'd still say Zhu Yuan is superior just for being F2P friendly since you can use Anby if you don't have Qingyi while Ellen really wants Lycaon for his amazing additional ability, ice application, and great stuns. I'm personally waiting for an Ether stunner to pair with Zhu Yuan and Nicole because of how Ether resonia work in Hollow Zero.
I can agree with this
@@KetteiThe7th_ I disagree with this...
Eventhough, ellen, soukaku is stuck with lycone it doesn't mean you can't add anby there to fill his place.... she will still consistently perform normally as any stunner and still dish out stuns on demand.
People forget the blessing called: Ease of use for unskilled players.
Zhu yuan complicated kit is something that frustrates me in a sense she moves a whole lot that it gets confusing being unable to properly see what the heck are the enemies doing or if I'm actually doing things correctly.
Ellen kit doesn't have this complexity and this simplicity means she will perform overall at her best no matter how terrible you are as a player as long as you know her mechanics.
Zhu yuan on the other hands, you need to properly time your burst or else you will end up wasting an opportunity to explode the enemy when the opportunity shows up for her to throw all her loaded bullet into the enemy.
In a sense: Decision making for Zhu yuan is more crucial compared to Ellen who can just easily decide whether to go all in or bail a risky position.
Both are good at their job which is doing damage.
Just remember that ease of use matters a lot in many situations.
@@shsuz-o4z Yeah, also remember Lycaon is a standard character, which means you can get him from limited banner and standard banner, or just simply wait for 300 rolls to pick him. while QingYi the only way to get her is pull on limited banner, for f2p or less spend players I think it's more difficult.
@@shsuz-o4z I really don't get the overexaggeration on how hard zhu yuan is to use, yes she's "harder" to use than ellen but to say shes hard is just kinda wild to me. She is still an extremely simple and easy character to understand and play like how do people say she's hard? I will never understand
@@KetteiThe7th_this, she is more difficult than ellen, but she aint hard hard
IMO, Zhu Yuan felt a lot better in the trial period. But having just cleared Withering Garden 11 with her character at level 50, her animations can be pretty greedy at times and frequently got me in trouble. I think Billy is actually better at not getting hit with how quickly his crouching shot can be cancelled into rolling shot, whereas Zhu always has to finish her animations before a side input will take affect, so you can’t reactively dodge with them as much as just incidentally dodging with them. Normal dodging of course still works, but there’s just a much higher skill ceiling with Zhu Yuan than I had thought.
yea she will take a little bit of practice
totally agreed their playstyle and rotation are totally different i have both of them ellen is much easier to use zhu needs some good practise and team rotation Ellen has smooth and biginner friendly whereas zhu yuan will be good if you are good in the game a bit dependent on skill gameplay she has some high burst output.Good vid👍
Ty!
More consistency is always win for any situation rather than short time period (if you fail to add buff / debuff its pretty significant drop a dmg within short period).
If the enemy has long daze bar, its absolutely drop ZY dmg compare how ellen joe can handle this short or long daze bar enemy
Yea I can agree
i agree, im glad theres ppl that notice this. different bosses/enemies will make a dps shine more or less. Ellen has also been very fun to just casually clear whatever I need, where zhuyuan i need to put in some work. farming for skill lvl mats is one example. enemies are so easy i can camp ellen and clear in 20 seconds. zhuyuan is much "harder/more effort" to achieve this solo 20 second clear
Yep!