Glad you guys are making an attempt to prep Rob for the TNG films. So many elements of these films pull on threads directly established in the show. I would have maybe had him watch the TNG pilot, Best of Both Worlds and the TNG finale as a primer and then if necessary maybe some episodes that give context to Datas family history? It’s such a mixed bag though because for a bunch of films that felt like they could have expanded on and really use its ensemble cast better than the TOS films it sadly was the opposite. The films just became the Picard & Data show. Couldn’t even make room for Riker as a McCoy substitute to give us the TNG triumvirate. Funny enough I think the Kelvin universe films do the best job at giving its ensemble more to do per film than any other era of Trek films.
If Rob wants to understand Star Trek I would recommend that he searches TH-cam for "Pircard our gratitude" and see if that connects with him or not. It's just a two minute clip and even without context one would get the general gist and the overall essense of the series. I know this is TNG and not the original series but I do believe that it's a very good sample to stand for Star Trek as a whole.
Character - Captain James T Kirk Villain - Lt. Valares Scene - Blowing up the Enterprise (from inputting the codes through to seeing it burn up in the Atmosphere). Ranking 6 - Voyage Home 5 - Final Frontier 4 - Search for Spock (helped largely by the scene mentioned above) 3 - The Motion Picture (but need to be in the mood for this type of film) 2 - Undiscovered Country 1 - Wrath of Khan All 6 original cast films rank above all 4 Next Generation film's.
Seriously, I'd probably rank First Contact either first or second best of the Star Trek films that doesn't have the original cast in it. Tied with Beyond, or just behind, depending on my mood. I just think the Next Generation films do a really poor job with the wider bridge crew that isn't Data or Picard - whereas the original cast films has some of the best moments for the none Kirk, Spock & McCoy characters. Star Trek is at it's best when it is treated as an ensemble - the original series wasn't really that, but became that in the 6 films with that cast - the Next Generation was that, but abandoned it for those 4 films. Beyond is the only Abrams film to get that same feel with the way it splits up the crew - so ranks probably higher than it should because of it. First Contact is the best Star Trek out of the films that doesn't even try to give other characters interesting things to do.
While I don't think watching the movies first is the best way to turn someone into a Star Trek fan, you could say I've found it 'Fascinating' listening to Rob's reactions to them. As someone who saw all of the original series before seeing the films, it is impossible to see them through that lens now. Rob points out things that I've never really noticed before, or if I had noticed them once upon a time, just pass me by now because of my familiarity with them. One example is Rob noting how little McCoy has to do in films which now that I think about it, is very true.
@@thomaszapata5153 I'm referring to his role in the films. Rob has commented that McCoy just seems to be there, and now that I think about it, McCoy's role in the films are surprisingly small compared to that in the TV series.
I always had an affinity for Bones because he reminds me of my grandpa a bit, and because he didn't mess around with his compassion. The scene in Space Seed when Khan puts a scalpel up to Bones' throat and Bones stares Khan down is a good example. How desperate he was to save the Klingon chancellor in Star Trek VI is another example.
The more I think about it, the more Dave is definitely Geordi. His knowledge of computers, his friendliness, his eye-wèar, his friendship with an English bald man. Am I describing Dave or Geordi? See, they're the same person! 😂
I'm not sure if you guys read the comments, but the line about every odd numbered Star Trek movie being bad is mentioned by Simon Pegs character in the sitcom Spaced: "I mean, it's a fact, sure as day follows night, sure as eggs is eggs, sure as every odd-numbered Star Trek movie is shit."
I grew up more of a Star Wars fan, but I love the original Trek movies as well. To me, both franchises are a perfect encapsulation of late 70s and 80s 'space' science fiction. I'm really surprised Search for Spock ranks so low. As a fan, but not a hardcore fan, my rankings would be... 6 - Final Frontier - I actually do think it gets unfairly criticised, and I think it has some great moments, but it's probably the weakest overall (the lower budget probably didn't help. I would still love to see a director's cut with new effects to embody Shatner's original vision). The best scene is obviously when Sybok tries to use his abilities on the core three. It's the weakest by virtue of the rest being better, not by it actually being bad. 5 - Voyage Home - I love it, it's great fun, but it's a _fun_ Star Trek film rather than a _great_ Star Trek film. Though I do also enjoy how it rounds out the full story told across Khan/Search/Voyage, regarding Spock. 4 - Undiscovered Country - Great film, and it's a fantastic conclusion to all six. For Kirk, it makes an excellent dramatic conclusion after his encounters with the Klingons, especially after the killing of his son in Search for Spock. 3 - Search for Spock - There's so much to love. The battle damaged arrival, the old and reliable versus the new and over-confident (when stealing the Enterprise), and then the tragic destruction of the ship and managing to bring Spock back in a way that fitted naturally with Wrath of Khan. And Christopher Lloyd makes for a superb villain, not to mention this sets the tone for what the Klingons are like going forward, after their brief cameo in the Motion Picture. I don't think they should have killed David (even though it makes a great emotional drive for Kirk). David's introduction had provided a nice legacy for Kirk that could have been left in the background. 2 - Motion Picture - This has grown on me so much over the years, and it's the one that I keep coming back to in many ways, because there is so much to it. It's probably the closest to the original series in tone and concept, and it has an epic feel. Perhaps it is a little more sterile and less warm-and-familiar with the characters, but as a pure scifi movie it is superb. And Jerry's phenomenal score deserves special mention. 1 - Wrath of Khan - The old-school nautical feel, the very personal villain, the flawed hero in Kirk, the tragedy of Spock, the fantastic final naval battle, all tied together with some great scifi concepts... It's firing on all cylinders, not to mention adding the emotional ties with Carol and David. And again, an incredible score, this time by Horner. Though I must admit, it's a close call, for me, between Khan and Motion Picture. So there you go! For contrast, the rankings from someone who leans more toward Star Wars lol! Boo, hiss!! 😂 (Pre Disney, of course)
Thank you for this! A thoughtful comment and much appreciated. Genuinely has me second guessing a couple of my opinions (there is more love for Search For Spock on TH-cam especially than I realised...)
If I live for another thousand years I will never understand what people like about Star Trek 4 the Voyage Home it is in my opinion easily the worst Star Trek movie including Generations
Speaking of Data. I watched Generations last night in preparation for the next podcast and I have to say it's a terrible introduction to his character. Without spoilers... He isn't the Data we know and love, and I think Rob might actually dislike him. lol
One of the things that really bothered me about Generations! They did an entire 2 part episode ending in Data saying “oh well, i cant use that chip because Lore screwed with it” only to open the film with Data saying “oh well, YOLO!” Also it irked me that the chip was the size of a dime you put in your finger on the show but in Generations it’s this huge bulbous thing injected in his head!
@langleymneely maybe we are supposed to think it's not the same chip that soung made but a new creation of data's. I never really think about that sort of minutiae in movies I just go with what they're giving me and accept it ironically I go in the complete opposite direction when it comes to the television shows
Glad you guys are making an attempt to prep Rob for the TNG films. So many elements of these films pull on threads directly established in the show. I would have maybe had him watch the TNG pilot, Best of Both Worlds and the TNG finale as a primer and then if necessary maybe some episodes that give context to Datas family history? It’s such a mixed bag though because for a bunch of films that felt like they could have expanded on and really use its ensemble cast better than the TOS films it sadly was the opposite. The films just became the Picard & Data show. Couldn’t even make room for Riker as a McCoy substitute to give us the TNG triumvirate. Funny enough I think the Kelvin universe films do the best job at giving its ensemble more to do per film than any other era of Trek films.
If Rob wants to understand Star Trek I would recommend that he searches TH-cam for "Pircard our gratitude" and see if that connects with him or not. It's just a two minute clip and even without context one would get the general gist and the overall essense of the series. I know this is TNG and not the original series but I do believe that it's a very good sample to stand for Star Trek as a whole.
Character - Captain James T Kirk
Villain - Lt. Valares
Scene - Blowing up the Enterprise (from inputting the codes through to seeing it burn up in the Atmosphere).
Ranking
6 - Voyage Home
5 - Final Frontier
4 - Search for Spock (helped largely by the scene mentioned above)
3 - The Motion Picture (but need to be in the mood for this type of film)
2 - Undiscovered Country
1 - Wrath of Khan
All 6 original cast films rank above all 4 Next Generation film's.
First Contact wants a word
@@RedshirtCinemaClub Balls.
It can have that word.
Seriously, I'd probably rank First Contact either first or second best of the Star Trek films that doesn't have the original cast in it.
Tied with Beyond, or just behind, depending on my mood.
I just think the Next Generation films do a really poor job with the wider bridge crew that isn't Data or Picard - whereas the original cast films has some of the best moments for the none Kirk, Spock & McCoy characters.
Star Trek is at it's best when it is treated as an ensemble - the original series wasn't really that, but became that in the 6 films with that cast - the Next Generation was that, but abandoned it for those 4 films.
Beyond is the only Abrams film to get that same feel with the way it splits up the crew - so ranks probably higher than it should because of it.
First Contact is the best Star Trek out of the films that doesn't even try to give other characters interesting things to do.
While I don't think watching the movies first is the best way to turn someone into a Star Trek fan, you could say I've found it 'Fascinating' listening to Rob's reactions to them. As someone who saw all of the original series before seeing the films, it is impossible to see them through that lens now. Rob points out things that I've never really noticed before, or if I had noticed them once upon a time, just pass me by now because of my familiarity with them. One example is Rob noting how little McCoy has to do in films which now that I think about it, is very true.
But in the original series, McCoy did do his job as a medical officer, surgeries, healing the horta, spocks brain, and many others...
@@thomaszapata5153 I'm referring to his role in the films. Rob has commented that McCoy just seems to be there, and now that I think about it, McCoy's role in the films are surprisingly small compared to that in the TV series.
I always had an affinity for Bones because he reminds me of my grandpa a bit, and because he didn't mess around with his compassion. The scene in Space Seed when Khan puts a scalpel up to Bones' throat and Bones stares Khan down is a good example. How desperate he was to save the Klingon chancellor in Star Trek VI is another example.
The more I think about it, the more Dave is definitely Geordi. His knowledge of computers, his friendliness, his eye-wèar, his friendship with an English bald man. Am I describing Dave or Geordi? See, they're the same person! 😂
Love u guys
I'm not sure if you guys read the comments, but the line about every odd numbered Star Trek movie being bad is mentioned by Simon Pegs character in the sitcom Spaced:
"I mean, it's a fact, sure as day follows night, sure as eggs is eggs, sure as every odd-numbered Star Trek movie is shit."
th-cam.com/video/vpb1OXvNNMc/w-d-xo.html
@@RedshirtCinemaClub lol I like Babylon 5 😂
I grew up more of a Star Wars fan, but I love the original Trek movies as well. To me, both franchises are a perfect encapsulation of late 70s and 80s 'space' science fiction.
I'm really surprised Search for Spock ranks so low. As a fan, but not a hardcore fan, my rankings would be...
6 - Final Frontier - I actually do think it gets unfairly criticised, and I think it has some great moments, but it's probably the weakest overall (the lower budget probably didn't help. I would still love to see a director's cut with new effects to embody Shatner's original vision). The best scene is obviously when Sybok tries to use his abilities on the core three. It's the weakest by virtue of the rest being better, not by it actually being bad.
5 - Voyage Home - I love it, it's great fun, but it's a _fun_ Star Trek film rather than a _great_ Star Trek film. Though I do also enjoy how it rounds out the full story told across Khan/Search/Voyage, regarding Spock.
4 - Undiscovered Country - Great film, and it's a fantastic conclusion to all six. For Kirk, it makes an excellent dramatic conclusion after his encounters with the Klingons, especially after the killing of his son in Search for Spock.
3 - Search for Spock - There's so much to love. The battle damaged arrival, the old and reliable versus the new and over-confident (when stealing the Enterprise), and then the tragic destruction of the ship and managing to bring Spock back in a way that fitted naturally with Wrath of Khan. And Christopher Lloyd makes for a superb villain, not to mention this sets the tone for what the Klingons are like going forward, after their brief cameo in the Motion Picture. I don't think they should have killed David (even though it makes a great emotional drive for Kirk). David's introduction had provided a nice legacy for Kirk that could have been left in the background.
2 - Motion Picture - This has grown on me so much over the years, and it's the one that I keep coming back to in many ways, because there is so much to it. It's probably the closest to the original series in tone and concept, and it has an epic feel. Perhaps it is a little more sterile and less warm-and-familiar with the characters, but as a pure scifi movie it is superb. And Jerry's phenomenal score deserves special mention.
1 - Wrath of Khan - The old-school nautical feel, the very personal villain, the flawed hero in Kirk, the tragedy of Spock, the fantastic final naval battle, all tied together with some great scifi concepts... It's firing on all cylinders, not to mention adding the emotional ties with Carol and David. And again, an incredible score, this time by Horner. Though I must admit, it's a close call, for me, between Khan and Motion Picture.
So there you go! For contrast, the rankings from someone who leans more toward Star Wars lol! Boo, hiss!! 😂 (Pre Disney, of course)
Thank you for this! A thoughtful comment and much appreciated. Genuinely has me second guessing a couple of my opinions (there is more love for Search For Spock on TH-cam especially than I realised...)
If I live for another thousand years I will never understand what people like about Star Trek 4 the Voyage Home it is in my opinion easily the worst Star Trek movie including Generations
Speaking of Data. I watched Generations last night in preparation for the next podcast and I have to say it's a terrible introduction to his character. Without spoilers... He isn't the Data we know and love, and I think Rob might actually dislike him. lol
One of the things that really bothered me about Generations! They did an entire 2 part episode ending in Data saying “oh well, i cant use that chip because Lore screwed with it” only to open the film with Data saying “oh well, YOLO!” Also it irked me that the chip was the size of a dime you put in your finger on the show but in Generations it’s this huge bulbous thing injected in his head!
@langleymneely maybe we are supposed to think it's not the same chip that soung made but a new creation of data's. I never really think about that sort of minutiae in movies I just go with what they're giving me and accept it ironically I go in the complete opposite direction when it comes to the television shows