Fantastic video! Almost all board game YT content is by people who love games and the sound of their own voice in no particular order… Thanks for presenting clearly without repetition or self-indulgence. Subbed forever!
That's very kind of you to say. Very much appreciated. One decision we made early in the channel is that we don't want to include our faces because we want the focus to be on the games and the ideas rather than on us. Thanks for taking the time to let us know that you like this approach.
Own both and I think you're wrong. Rulebook - OG Kemet's is better. The B&S rulebook comes with the expectation that you understand the original rules. Pyramids - B&S is better. Map - B&S is better. The single side with the Sanctuary of All Gods available at all player counts is better. I also think your "other than omitting half the board" criticism is weird considering that's exactly what you do with Kemet (either version) at 2 & 3 players. Both games have the same spaces are too small for all the pieces problem. Mobility - B&S is better simply for solving the bottleneck issue of OG Kemet. Additionally, the harbor rule is as simple as, "You can leave any harbor, but only enter a trade harbor or your own military harbor." It's a simple rule made difficult because of B&S' primary issue -the rulebook. Organization - B&S. Minis - I prefer the troops in B&S. I prefer the creatures in OG Kemet. Probably OG Kemet, just because the creatures or more of a draw than the troops (which could be cubes or anything really). Player Boards - B&S. But, I also like the inserts for the tile colors. I think it's a more functional and future-proof method than the black tile overlays provided in Ta-Seti. Unblockable Damage - This isn't new. It's a rules update to fix timing issues and a change in the symbol. In OG Kemet, most situations of unblockable damage occur pre-battle. This isn't a situation where "shields used to mean something," it's a situation where in OG Kemet unblockable damage was both a loss of units and strength. Compare the tiles: - OG Kemet Initiative deals 2 unblockable damage before battle even begins. B&S deals 1 regular damage and 1 unblockable damage at the end of battle. - Ta-Seti Deadly Trap deals 1 unblockable damage before battle even begins. B&S deals 1 unblockable damage. - Seth Giant Crocodile deals 1 unblockable damage before battle even begins. There's no equivalent of this, but I would imagine a B&S Seth expansion would switch to 1 unblockable damage. - B&S Game Up kit (optional expansion) adds 2 cards that cost 1 PP for 1 unblockable damage. It's a module expansion. If you don't like it, then leave it out? Unblockable damage is weaker. B&S didn't remove strategy. It added it. You can't get Initiative and insta-remove 2 strength from every opponent you attack. Even the B&S DI cards are a red-herring because they're a weaker version of Raining Fire (a card that kills an opponent's unit outside of battle). Veteran Tokens - A bit fiddly and a catch-up mechanism. But, you missed some key points. It can be used to reinforce your city, get PP, or 2 can be turned in for a DI card. It also provides some incentive for the defender to win rather than shield-up and retreat. Upgrades - B&S. The player aids and tile holders are overall improvements. But, be aware the tile holders are an add-on at retail. Expansions - You didn't even touch on the new B&S expansion with Book of the Dead nor the Game Up boxes. Doesn't seem like you really compared anything here. B&S is better, because I'm more likely to use Book of the Dead than Seth. Iconography - OG Kemet's are better. But, it's mostly because they got too complicated with some of the iconography. 80% of B&S is fine. Then you have stuff like the wonky Tactical Support card or Sandworm. 3 for OG Kemet 8 for B&S Final Verdict - I love OG Kemet. It's easily in my top 5 games, but B&S is a smoother game even if the rulebook is bad. B&S solves balance and timing issues of OG Kemet that weren't fix with the v1.5 rules. And, I've had little problem teaching B&S. Neither harbors nor veteran tokens are complicated or confusing. Weird timing issues with unblockable damage. Crazy point swings where a player gets 5 VP with a single action. Those are the types of things that I find turn off new players.
Many great and valid points. I still think this video provide a good framework to help owner decide between the 2 games. More than other TH-cam reviewers out there for sure. Just that some criteria are not on the same level and the reviewer may want to get a few game into their belt so that other aspects can also be highlighted such as balance, strategic/tactical depth, replayability etc. to me those are far more important than beating the dead rulebook horse 😇
This is incredibly thorough. Thanks for countering some of my points and clarifying others. I got a few green tiles with my game, but I did not get the Book of the Dead, so unfortunately, I can't comment on it. Your assessment seems very fair and well-argued. I think Andy might be right that with more time it may grow on me. Once I've played it 20 times, I may need to do another updated video that looks at my experience again. These are mostly my initial reflections after a small number of plays. But unfortunately, if a game doesn't impress me quickly, it likely doesn't ever get to 20 plays.
@@LegendaryTactics im not sure if I have even played Kemet (1.0, 1.5, and B&S combined) for even 20 times ;). I'm surprised that after "a few games" you cant comment on the balance of it. How do you find the new system of free level 1 tile right at the start? Do you think Ruby is still the best color or is Sapphire now better? Do you think it's more tight at
@@Andy-td4sj I do like the free level 1 tile. It's a nice way to accelerate early tech and to differentiate player pathways. I wouldn't have said Ruby was the best before. They are all situational. I often play a defensive style game where I hold multiple cities and have unbreakable defense. But it depends on what other players are doing. Each set of power tiles has its time and place. With Covid, I haven't had a chance to play this live with the max player count, so I can't comment on that.
@@LegendaryTactics Sound great! I have not been able to come across anyone who specialises in Blue actually, mainly Red, White, and Black. I would be very interested to understand how you do your build in the first 2-3 days, either for Kemet, Ta Seti, or B&S. One of the best things about this channel is the discussion on strategies and tactics, not just impression or unboxing ;) Hence I would encourage you to give B&S more chance it deserves and spark this discussion
Cool review. I just got OG Kemet, but I had some uneasiness about missing out on a better experience with the new version. This review puts my mind at ease that I made the right call. Now I just need to get Ta-Seti.
Just picked up a used copy of Kemet with the Tao expansion and thank you for the review! Can you tell me what coin holders you bought to help organize the game and how many one would need?
This review is really thoughtful oh, so I thought I'd respectfully mark where I disagree. I am also in the rare category of people who own absolutely everything for the original, and similarly for the second edition. Here's my criticism of the video, obviously just being my opinion only. 1. Unless in my relative sleepiness I missed it or it buffered weirdly on my device, you did not touch upon the new emerald pyramid (or green pyramid). Having criteria with a fairly strongly implied comprehensiveness, this feels like a mistake to not include this analysis even if only briefly in the expansion section or new elements section. The new green pyramid is interesting and dynamic and offers a great deal. 2. Even more subjectively, I simply disagree about the priests in the first edition first expansion. Granted I only play with them and the path to to seti about a third of the time but I think they are very worthwhile and I'm glad they are available when I do want to play with them and in my view you are too dismissive about their value as though they were simply a miss rather than something with more niche appeal depending on the group and one's mood. 3. In talking about getting around to easily that's a criticism that both games certainly received and I tend to disagree with both. I like that you can't get absolutely everywhere you want without cost at least like in blood rage but at the same time it's much easier than most conflict games to get where you need. I feel that even though you are right to point out there is added complexity, I disagree that it's that much easier. The sandstorms come into play here more than you touched upon and there are more meaningful differences in how the power tiles are balanced and changed. 4. I think a lot of our disagreements are just good faith taste differences because I like the old pyramids more and I know that you feel the new pyramids are hands down Improvement. There are some things that I think you are just incorrect about with what people will find more easy or more difficult. It's not automatically obvious what power tiles people have already purchased from even if they already know that they only have a certain three colors. It makes total sense for your three colored power tile slots to be modular depending on which three of the four or three of the five that you have and so you can more easily remember which one you've already purchased from that round. Not having to remember which colors you've already purchased from that round and not worrying about conflating that with another round is useful and helpful and adding an additional token is something that was already done in a modular way with the black power pyramid in the first edition anyway so I don't see this as unnecessary. complexity. 5. I don't feel veteran tokens give enough to make it feel that everyone is a winner. You still only win because of victory points not because of prayer points or veteran points. What they do however is make it so that there's not an advantage of being a third player not involved in a fight and takes a little bit away from a kingmaker status because they're still summer award in defending as best as you can even if there's no Hope of Victory point in the defense. I really disagree that it feels like participation trophies for everyone, especially since this game is already among the most restrictive for when it'll give you a victory points for battles having the conditions that you only get the victory points if you are the attacker and you win and you have at least one troop left. I can hardly think of other conflict games that have all three of these conditions at this complexity level in order to get some kind of victory points for a Battle Victory. I think it's farfetch to describe getting bonuses for fighting in this game as a kind of participation trophy with that kinds of severe austere restrictions. 6. Do you own the upgrade kit which gives a green pyramid of the original type as well as power tiles of the new balanced kind but with iconography of the original? I bought two copies of the upgrade kit so I could also Tinker with it and examine it and I think this would have been a perfect opportunity to dive into the upgrade kit and talk about where it meets a compromise between the two additions and where it is either not a full-fledged upgrade or on the other hand arguably achieved The Best of Both Worlds depending on someone's taste. I think that would be an opportunity for a sequel to this video because at the moment it feels like a lost opportunity especially in light of lacking in analysis of the green pyramid or a deeper dive into the technology changes and balanced weeks considering how Central technology and balancing is to the gameplay for both Editions. 7. And which would not be expedient to do so either because of balancing or component limitations. For example, it would have been useful to touch upon how in the new addition There are rules regarding the number of pyramids in play as options depending on the number of players but this is a rule set that can easily be tweet to Simply use the old rules. In fact it would be useful to pinpoint specifically which changes and rules would simply be cumbersome to revert back to the old Editions. 7. The games made by this company in my opinion all suffer from the iconography in general and I don't feel that for new players the iconography and either version is frankly relatively easy. I find that of the somewhat entry-level conflict games I have this game in either Edition tends to be one of the more difficult ones to teach in part because of the language independent iconography. Some of your criticism of the new addition is highly warranted, but I think it's important to look at the purpose that this company has done for both editions inside iconography. I think it's fair to infer that the icons for power tiles beyond the most simplistic are there not to necessarily teach what's the power does but as me reminders with the assumption that the player has already learned them in a general sense. For both Editions there are any number of power tiles and other elements where it is not intuitive and very easy to misinterpret the meaning if one only went by the symbols instead of reading it first and using symbols as mere reminders. Your video may give people the impression that there is sort of an expectation that players will generally learn what power tiles do by looking at their symbols which I will say is difficult to say the least for at least half of the power tiles in any of the colors for both editions without having referenced the rules and reference book at least once or twice independently. 8. I think a very good arguments can be made for strongly preferring either Edition and personally I'm glad I own both because like yourself this is my favorite game quite easily. But I do worry generally speaking that this video will essentially serve as a way for people to feel Vindicated and validated if they simply wanted to accuse blood and Sand of being a cash grab. Even if my tastes were shifted as such that every component and other change was shifted as such that I would only play with my original set, I would still see the good faith passion, dedication, and intention but behind all of the elements in the new addition that I wouldn't want to call it a cash grab but I see people even in your comments calling it as such and feeling Vindicated by your video and giving it that label which I think is kind of insulting to the genuine hard work put into both editions. Granted, you never slapped this title or label onto it but I feel that some of the omissions or dismissive some nations may have given that impression and I guess I just wish this had been part 1 or 2 or had been a 30 minute long video. But similarly to the makers of the game, regardless of my taste and where it's the same as yours were different I want to acknowledge and commend you on your genuine hard work and thoughtfulness in making this video comparison. P.S. would be good to talk about the change to the level 4 Red Power initiative and how it was radically changed from the crazy Corner case that involve lots of rules arguments into something more streamlined and analogous. Again would have preferred a deeper dive into the power tile differences in Technologies and that also would have been good opportunity for talkin about the upgrade kit again
Geez Louise. I used voice to text and I was pretty messed up and sleepy when I made this last comment. I apologize because it's pretty Meandering and rambling and comes across overly critical so I might get rid of it. Definitely don't want to sound discouraging of making more good videos because this channel seems really excellent so at the very least thought I'd add on a positive compliment after my long-winded ADHD stream-of-consciousness comment! Haha not sure if I'll clean it up or not or get rid of it, but either way keep up the good work with board game videos!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. You clearly have a lot more playtime with this than I do. You have convinced me to give this another legitimate chance.
No problem. They are coin sleeves like this: www.amazon.ca/20-Twenty-20-Pocket-Collecting-Supplies/dp/B002KDNAU2/ref=asc_df_B002KDNAU2/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292938959987&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7801835334522016948&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000732&hvtargid=pla-547645253914&th=1
I certainly do. I'll be using it. The crossover added 2 white powers (Chiron and the Minotaur), 2 red powers (Cerberus and Medusa), and 2 blue powers (Kraken and Polyphemus). None of their powers inherently contradict any adjusted rules of the game (ex - there's still a river for the Kraken to inhabit). It would likely be up to the players if they want that many extra minis on auction. At some point, I could see that having too many options really reduces the competition for the good ones, so you might want to be selective about which tiles you include in the game.
Thanks for checking it out. I don't completely regret buying this, but for my friends with original Kemet, I don't think they need to rush out and get this.
Really liked this video! Pretty sure wich version im gonna buy, I think the biggest gripe for me was that the old versions contrast heavy art was not really as kind on the eyes as the newer version, still really like the original heavy metal-ness art tho, gr8 vid!
Hi, I'm from Brazil and Kemet is my favorite board game too...I want to know how you play the game about the rules...originals, 1.5, mixed, or any personal rules...I just have the base game, ok??? Give me some ideas, please??? Thanks!!!
I mostly stick to the 1.5 rules. I need to sit down with Blood and Sand for much longer, and weigh the relative merits of the rule changes and how they will play with my group. Give me a few weeks and I can properly answer this question. I think I (or the boardgamegeek community) might need to make a 2.5 edition of the rules.
I think it makes some really good adjustments to the core game, though my friends learned Kemet on the base game, and we tend to stick to the original rules.
I vastly prefer the original game + black tiles... But one important aspect of B&S that you didn't mentioned is that they re-balanced the power tiles. Specially for Blue, the new ones are way better, as they make Blue at least decent now...
I’m late to the party! As someone who’s never played og Kemet, I’ll say that the “complicated rules” comment doesn’t land for me. The harbors are pretty intuitive and are aided by arrows on the board. Rulebook is bad, sure, but given how many complaints I’ve seen from online people, I found the learning process… not that bad? Also, super subjective, but the og minis are so ugly to me 😂
I always hate when games do this with their newer editions. Seems pretty obvious but the updated edition shouldn't improve and worsen different elements of the game. I just bought blood and sand (as a new Kemet player) and I did get a good deal out of it. I just wish I could have the best of both of worlds in something like a board game which already shouldn't be that hard to do well, particularly for an experienced company. It feels good to say with confidence that the copy you have keeps the best parts of the old and gets rid of the gunk. Good review.
Never had either. I'm waiting for the Blood & Sand copy to arrive. But what I see from this there are differences I both like and dislike. The map thing, I like the looks of the older one better. But I see the new one has a sixth? citadel (does that mean a possible 6th player?) Because that easily overturns my design preferability of the older one. Also, smaller map is a win for me. The figurines, I like the old ones better, they are smaller and have a bit more distinct design which I like more. The new ones feel like they're from another game altogether, especially with the Cthulhu addon. The pyramid buildings are a fine addon, but I dislike small components in games and a lot of small components just give me headaches. The old dice pyramidal d4s I really like, they're less fidly. The icons are also better in the older one, also I see that although the cards are bigger in Blood & Sand, the pictures are cropped. On old ones the same pictures are bigger and show more. I like the artwork and I'd like to see more of it, not less. I'd buy the older Kemet, but the prices haven't dropped that much here where I'm from and second hand Blood & Sand copies are just 10€ more. Also there's only one expansion (for now), which is a big plus for me. I hate collecting boxes and for now it's cheaper for my wallet.
Great..... I just sold my original Kemet w/ expansion + customer insert with tile management before this video for half it's value XD. This is super informative though. May be you can include some information on the upgrade kit once it comes out, I think it changes the old Kemet to new rule + tiles without the new map... wonder how that plays.
Blood and Sand is still a strong game. I don't think I'll get the Cthulhu minis. I've had enough of that theme in other games and it doesn't seem necessary here. I'll probably just leave my Blood and Sand copy at the cottage and keep my original game at home. At least then I don't need to carry it back and forth.
@@LegendaryTactics I think you misunderstood. The upgrade kit has the new tiles and DI in old Kemet style. It is not the Cthulul pack which is separate
@@LegendaryTactics I bought a second copy of original as well which includes upgrade kit. It's a meaningful and nuanced compromise of various elements. I absolutely can see different moods and different crowds preferring second edition or first edition or first edition with the upgrade kit. Everything with you upgrade kit again is made to be compatible with the first edition specifically including graphics and so forth. Even the Cthulhu pack after all is only a modification of the green expansion but again both are separate from the upgrade kit which really focuses on the power tiles especially
I do prefer the original. What has won you over with blood and sand? I really want to love it, but it's a little like the novel Dune for me. I want to like it, but I just don't.
@@LegendaryTactics 6 players? Are there components for 6 players? There are only 5 colored boards and 5 sets of soldiers ... how does Blood and Sand play 6?
The point in the pyramid tiles for the player boards is that you fill that with the colors of your pyramids and leave the one you don't have out. So that you have the actions to buy power tiles from the colors you actually have... What could easly be solved by having 4 actions there instead of 3... And one HUGE problem with this new system, is that now you can't EVER buy a power from a color you didn't built in your own city, even if you are curently controling a pyramid of said color from another player =/ PS: You didn't said anything about the Book of Dead expansion... Wich is what I'm most interested in!
Oh man, I didn't think of that limitation, but you're right, now it de-values conquering other people's pyramids to steal their build potential. Sounds like another house rule might be needed. I'll definitely be checking it out, but it didn't come with my copy, so I'll have to wait on the Book of the Dead review.
@@LegendaryTactics this isn’t right. 3.4.3 raise a pyramid. Under pyramid effects “Each Pyramid allows its controller to buy Power tiles that match its color and are of the same or lower level” And 3.4.2 “buy a power tile” under buying conditions “2. A player can buy a Power tile in the color of a Pyramid they control in an opponent’s City by placing an Action token on ANY available Buy a Power tile action space on their Individual board regardless of color (INCLUDING an «EMPTY» box), and paying PP equal to the level of that Power tile.” (EMPHASIS mine)
@@LegendaryTactics the purpose of the power tile slots is that the different player counts use different numbers of power colors. Two players use two paired down colors. Three and four players use only three colors of power tiles. Five players allows for four colors and if you have the book of the dead expansion that gives you a choice of four out of five colors. This is to keep the pressure up to get the powers you want for your strategy.
@@LegendaryTactics now the deeper cut depends on how you read the rules for the black power tiles in Ta-Seti. If you read them like I do, that the black tile is ADDED to the four actions on the bottom giving you five total actions there and you cover the unused color in your city for ease of use and can move the tile if you need to, to buy the fourth color if you control an opponent’s pyramid (sorry that sentence got away from me). Then, with the use of the “Act of God” token, you can buy four powers powers in one turn and still adhere to the equilibrium rule. One of each color (red, blue, white, black). We are going to leave “twin ceremony “ out of this discussion. If you read it as other people I’ve encountered as “if you move the black power token you’ve still used the space” then the number of power tiles that you can purchase is fixed at three. The other implications of this rule is that it might give more incentive to take over opponent’s pyramids. If I want to buy more than one red power tiles in one turn (again without “twin ceremony”) I take over an opponent’s red pyramid and buy powers by “placing an Action token on ANY available Buy a Power tile action space on their Individual board REGARDLESS of color (including an «empty» box)” Again EMPHASIS mine. And as long as I control an opponent’s Red Pyramid I can use all three “buy a power” spots to buy red powers, REGARDLESS of color.
It looks a lot like a cash grab. I have the new edition and think that the new version was not tested. My complains: The insert is to small to hold the fame point board. The harbors and the map make it more confusing. The rulebook is terrible. We played a whole game of kemet wrong with the 2 black blood card because we thought that 2 troops of the enemy will be removed... Iconography is terrible. Another stupid design decision is the sorting of the tiles. You are supposed to put the level one tiles on the bottom of the tray and level 4 on the top according to the icons in the trays. However in the player aid for each player the order is flipped.... Why?? It makes it just more difficult. The miniatures are okay but look kind of ugly. Not up to the standards of recent miniature games. The player boards are warped. The token tray only has 3 spots to put the tokens into but you have more than 3 types of tokens... 😣 😔 It is a great game but the mentioned issues are just stupid. If you make a second edition of a great board game, just make it better. METAGOT is not a good publisher.
I wonder if the people writing the rules and testing the game were just too close to it. They take a lot for granted rather than explaining it as if a player has never played the game before. I also played my first game wrong with the unblockable damage card, fully knowing that the old card sacrificed units for the big attack, but trusting the iconography. I agree with just about everything you've said. It already feels as if a 2.5 rules edition is necessary.
Fantastic video! Almost all board game YT content is by people who love games and the sound of their own voice in no particular order… Thanks for presenting clearly without repetition or self-indulgence. Subbed forever!
That's very kind of you to say. Very much appreciated. One decision we made early in the channel is that we don't want to include our faces because we want the focus to be on the games and the ideas rather than on us. Thanks for taking the time to let us know that you like this approach.
I just started getting into better board games and you gotta be talking about the couple at “board of it” channel lol
Own both and I think you're wrong.
Rulebook - OG Kemet's is better. The B&S rulebook comes with the expectation that you understand the original rules.
Pyramids - B&S is better.
Map - B&S is better. The single side with the Sanctuary of All Gods available at all player counts is better. I also think your "other than omitting half the board" criticism is weird considering that's exactly what you do with Kemet (either version) at 2 & 3 players. Both games have the same spaces are too small for all the pieces problem.
Mobility - B&S is better simply for solving the bottleneck issue of OG Kemet. Additionally, the harbor rule is as simple as, "You can leave any harbor, but only enter a trade harbor or your own military harbor." It's a simple rule made difficult because of B&S' primary issue -the rulebook.
Organization - B&S.
Minis - I prefer the troops in B&S. I prefer the creatures in OG Kemet. Probably OG Kemet, just because the creatures or more of a draw than the troops (which could be cubes or anything really).
Player Boards - B&S. But, I also like the inserts for the tile colors. I think it's a more functional and future-proof method than the black tile overlays provided in Ta-Seti.
Unblockable Damage - This isn't new. It's a rules update to fix timing issues and a change in the symbol. In OG Kemet, most situations of unblockable damage occur pre-battle. This isn't a situation where "shields used to mean something," it's a situation where in OG Kemet unblockable damage was both a loss of units and strength. Compare the tiles:
- OG Kemet Initiative deals 2 unblockable damage before battle even begins. B&S deals 1 regular damage and 1 unblockable damage at the end of battle.
- Ta-Seti Deadly Trap deals 1 unblockable damage before battle even begins. B&S deals 1 unblockable damage.
- Seth Giant Crocodile deals 1 unblockable damage before battle even begins. There's no equivalent of this, but I would imagine a B&S Seth expansion would switch to 1 unblockable damage.
- B&S Game Up kit (optional expansion) adds 2 cards that cost 1 PP for 1 unblockable damage. It's a module expansion. If you don't like it, then leave it out?
Unblockable damage is weaker. B&S didn't remove strategy. It added it. You can't get Initiative and insta-remove 2 strength from every opponent you attack. Even the B&S DI cards are a red-herring because they're a weaker version of Raining Fire (a card that kills an opponent's unit outside of battle).
Veteran Tokens - A bit fiddly and a catch-up mechanism. But, you missed some key points. It can be used to reinforce your city, get PP, or 2 can be turned in for a DI card. It also provides some incentive for the defender to win rather than shield-up and retreat.
Upgrades - B&S. The player aids and tile holders are overall improvements. But, be aware the tile holders are an add-on at retail.
Expansions - You didn't even touch on the new B&S expansion with Book of the Dead nor the Game Up boxes. Doesn't seem like you really compared anything here. B&S is better, because I'm more likely to use Book of the Dead than Seth.
Iconography - OG Kemet's are better. But, it's mostly because they got too complicated with some of the iconography. 80% of B&S is fine. Then you have stuff like the wonky Tactical Support card or Sandworm.
3 for OG Kemet
8 for B&S
Final Verdict - I love OG Kemet. It's easily in my top 5 games, but B&S is a smoother game even if the rulebook is bad. B&S solves balance and timing issues of OG Kemet that weren't fix with the v1.5 rules. And, I've had little problem teaching B&S. Neither harbors nor veteran tokens are complicated or confusing. Weird timing issues with unblockable damage. Crazy point swings where a player gets 5 VP with a single action. Those are the types of things that I find turn off new players.
Many great and valid points. I still think this video provide a good framework to help owner decide between the 2 games. More than other TH-cam reviewers out there for sure. Just that some criteria are not on the same level and the reviewer may want to get a few game into their belt so that other aspects can also be highlighted such as balance, strategic/tactical depth, replayability etc. to me those are far more important than beating the dead rulebook horse 😇
This is incredibly thorough. Thanks for countering some of my points and clarifying others. I got a few green tiles with my game, but I did not get the Book of the Dead, so unfortunately, I can't comment on it. Your assessment seems very fair and well-argued. I think Andy might be right that with more time it may grow on me. Once I've played it 20 times, I may need to do another updated video that looks at my experience again. These are mostly my initial reflections after a small number of plays. But unfortunately, if a game doesn't impress me quickly, it likely doesn't ever get to 20 plays.
@@LegendaryTactics im not sure if I have even played Kemet (1.0, 1.5, and B&S combined) for even 20 times ;). I'm surprised that after "a few games" you cant comment on the balance of it. How do you find the new system of free level 1 tile right at the start? Do you think Ruby is still the best color or is Sapphire now better? Do you think it's more tight at
@@Andy-td4sj I do like the free level 1 tile. It's a nice way to accelerate early tech and to differentiate player pathways. I wouldn't have said Ruby was the best before. They are all situational. I often play a defensive style game where I hold multiple cities and have unbreakable defense. But it depends on what other players are doing. Each set of power tiles has its time and place. With Covid, I haven't had a chance to play this live with the max player count, so I can't comment on that.
@@LegendaryTactics Sound great! I have not been able to come across anyone who specialises in Blue actually, mainly Red, White, and Black. I would be very interested to understand how you do your build in the first 2-3 days, either for Kemet, Ta Seti, or B&S.
One of the best things about this channel is the discussion on strategies and tactics, not just impression or unboxing ;) Hence I would encourage you to give B&S more chance it deserves and spark this discussion
Cool review. I just got OG Kemet, but I had some uneasiness about missing out on a better experience with the new version. This review puts my mind at ease that I made the right call. Now I just need to get Ta-Seti.
I'm saddened to say that I still pull out my old copy rather than the new blood and sand. Ta-seti is well worth getting for sure.
Just picked up a used copy of Kemet with the Tao expansion and thank you for the review! Can you tell me what coin holders you bought to help organize the game and how many one would need?
Each pocket measures about 2 inches by 2 inches. There are 20 pockets per page. 1 page per tech (red, white, blue, and black), so 4 pages.
@@LegendaryTactics Thank you!
Thank you so much! You saved me $120! (I live in Africa, so I have to pay huge shipping fees).
This review is really thoughtful oh, so I thought I'd respectfully mark where I disagree. I am also in the rare category of people who own absolutely everything for the original, and similarly for the second edition. Here's my criticism of the video, obviously just being my opinion only.
1. Unless in my relative sleepiness I missed it or it buffered weirdly on my device, you did not touch upon the new emerald pyramid (or green pyramid). Having criteria with a fairly strongly implied comprehensiveness, this feels like a mistake to not include this analysis even if only briefly in the expansion section or new elements section. The new green pyramid is interesting and dynamic and offers a great deal.
2. Even more subjectively, I simply disagree about the priests in the first edition first expansion. Granted I only play with them and the path to to seti about a third of the time but I think they are very worthwhile and I'm glad they are available when I do want to play with them and in my view you are too dismissive about their value as though they were simply a miss rather than something with more niche appeal depending on the group and one's mood.
3. In talking about getting around to easily that's a criticism that both games certainly received and I tend to disagree with both. I like that you can't get absolutely everywhere you want without cost at least like in blood rage but at the same time it's much easier than most conflict games to get where you need. I feel that even though you are right to point out there is added complexity, I disagree that it's that much easier. The sandstorms come into play here more than you touched upon and there are more meaningful differences in how the power tiles are balanced and changed.
4. I think a lot of our disagreements are just good faith taste differences because I like the old pyramids more and I know that you feel the new pyramids are hands down Improvement. There are some things that I think you are just incorrect about with what people will find more easy or more difficult. It's not automatically obvious what power tiles people have already purchased from even if they already know that they only have a certain three colors. It makes total sense for your three colored power tile slots to be modular depending on which three of the four or three of the five that you have and so you can more easily remember which one you've already purchased from that round. Not having to remember which colors you've already purchased from that round and not worrying about conflating that with another round is useful and helpful and adding an additional token is something that was already done in a modular way with the black power pyramid in the first edition anyway so I don't see this as unnecessary. complexity.
5. I don't feel veteran tokens give enough to make it feel that everyone is a winner. You still only win because of victory points not because of prayer points or veteran points. What they do however is make it so that there's not an advantage of being a third player not involved in a fight and takes a little bit away from a kingmaker status because they're still summer award in defending as best as you can even if there's no Hope of Victory point in the defense. I really disagree that it feels like participation trophies for everyone, especially since this game is already among the most restrictive for when it'll give you a victory points for battles having the conditions that you only get the victory points if you are the attacker and you win and you have at least one troop left. I can hardly think of other conflict games that have all three of these conditions at this complexity level in order to get some kind of victory points for a Battle Victory. I think it's farfetch to describe getting bonuses for fighting in this game as a kind of participation trophy with that kinds of severe austere restrictions.
6. Do you own the upgrade kit which gives a green pyramid of the original type as well as power tiles of the new balanced kind but with iconography of the original? I bought two copies of the upgrade kit so I could also Tinker with it and examine it and I think this would have been a perfect opportunity to dive into the upgrade kit and talk about where it meets a compromise between the two additions and where it is either not a full-fledged upgrade or on the other hand arguably achieved The Best of Both Worlds depending on someone's taste. I think that would be an opportunity for a sequel to this video because at the moment it feels like a lost opportunity especially in light of lacking in analysis of the green pyramid or a deeper dive into the technology changes and balanced weeks considering how Central technology and balancing is to the gameplay for both Editions.
7. And which would not be expedient to do so either because of balancing or component limitations. For example, it would have been useful to touch upon how in the new addition There are rules regarding the number of pyramids in play as options depending on the number of players but this is a rule set that can easily be tweet to Simply use the old rules. In fact it would be useful to pinpoint specifically which changes and rules would simply be cumbersome to revert back to the old Editions.
7. The games made by this company in my opinion all suffer from the iconography in general and I don't feel that for new players the iconography and either version is frankly relatively easy. I find that of the somewhat entry-level conflict games I have this game in either Edition tends to be one of the more difficult ones to teach in part because of the language independent iconography. Some of your criticism of the new addition is highly warranted, but I think it's important to look at the purpose that this company has done for both editions inside iconography. I think it's fair to infer that the icons for power tiles beyond the most simplistic are there not to necessarily teach what's the power does but as me reminders with the assumption that the player has already learned them in a general sense. For both Editions there are any number of power tiles and other elements where it is not intuitive and very easy to misinterpret the meaning if one only went by the symbols instead of reading it first and using symbols as mere reminders. Your video may give people the impression that there is sort of an expectation that players will generally learn what power tiles do by looking at their symbols which I will say is difficult to say the least for at least half of the power tiles in any of the colors for both editions without having referenced the rules and reference book at least once or twice independently.
8. I think a very good arguments can be made for strongly preferring either Edition and personally I'm glad I own both because like yourself this is my favorite game quite easily. But I do worry generally speaking that this video will essentially serve as a way for people to feel Vindicated and validated if they simply wanted to accuse blood and Sand of being a cash grab. Even if my tastes were shifted as such that every component and other change was shifted as such that I would only play with my original set, I would still see the good faith passion, dedication, and intention but behind all of the elements in the new addition that I wouldn't want to call it a cash grab but I see people even in your comments calling it as such and feeling Vindicated by your video and giving it that label which I think is kind of insulting to the genuine hard work put into both editions. Granted, you never slapped this title or label onto it but I feel that some of the omissions or dismissive some nations may have given that impression and I guess I just wish this had been part 1 or 2 or had been a 30 minute long video. But similarly to the makers of the game, regardless of my taste and where it's the same as yours were different I want to acknowledge and commend you on your genuine hard work and thoughtfulness in making this video comparison.
P.S. would be good to talk about the change to the level 4 Red Power initiative and how it was radically changed from the crazy Corner case that involve lots of rules arguments into something more streamlined and analogous. Again would have preferred a deeper dive into the power tile differences in Technologies and that also would have been good opportunity for talkin about the upgrade kit again
Geez Louise. I used voice to text and I was pretty messed up and sleepy when I made this last comment. I apologize because it's pretty Meandering and rambling and comes across overly critical so I might get rid of it. Definitely don't want to sound discouraging of making more good videos because this channel seems really excellent so at the very least thought I'd add on a positive compliment after my long-winded ADHD stream-of-consciousness comment! Haha not sure if I'll clean it up or not or get rid of it, but either way keep up the good work with board game videos!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. You clearly have a lot more playtime with this than I do. You have convinced me to give this another legitimate chance.
Could you tell us what's the size of the plastic holder for the power tiles? Or even better, a hotlink to the product 😃
No problem. They are coin sleeves like this: www.amazon.ca/20-Twenty-20-Pocket-Collecting-Supplies/dp/B002KDNAU2/ref=asc_df_B002KDNAU2/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292938959987&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7801835334522016948&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000732&hvtargid=pla-547645253914&th=1
They make all the difference for the setup.
@@LegendaryTactics they don't have with this size in Europe :( It is either 44mm or 60mm so far from what I've seen
Do you think you could use the Cyclades/Kemet crossover expansion with Blood and Sand?
I certainly do. I'll be using it. The crossover added 2 white powers (Chiron and the Minotaur), 2 red powers (Cerberus and Medusa), and 2 blue powers (Kraken and Polyphemus). None of their powers inherently contradict any adjusted rules of the game (ex - there's still a river for the Kraken to inhabit). It would likely be up to the players if they want that many extra minis on auction. At some point, I could see that having too many options really reduces the competition for the good ones, so you might want to be selective about which tiles you include in the game.
Brilliant video, thanks for convincing me that getting a bargain deal for og kemet would be worth it!
Thanks for checking it out. I don't completely regret buying this, but for my friends with original Kemet, I don't think they need to rush out and get this.
Legendary comparison video, you have my thousand gratitudes!
Wow, thanks!
Really liked this video! Pretty sure wich version im gonna buy, I think the biggest gripe for me was that the old versions contrast heavy art was not really as kind on the eyes as the newer version, still really like the original heavy metal-ness art tho, gr8 vid!
That's a great point. I hadn't considered that, but you're right
Hi, I'm from Brazil and Kemet is my favorite board game too...I want to know how you play the game about the rules...originals, 1.5, mixed, or any personal rules...I just have the base game, ok??? Give me some ideas, please??? Thanks!!!
I mostly stick to the 1.5 rules. I need to sit down with Blood and Sand for much longer, and weigh the relative merits of the rule changes and how they will play with my group. Give me a few weeks and I can properly answer this question. I think I (or the boardgamegeek community) might need to make a 2.5 edition of the rules.
Thanks for the video. Do you like version 1.5?
I think it makes some really good adjustments to the core game, though my friends learned Kemet on the base game, and we tend to stick to the original rules.
I vastly prefer the original game + black tiles...
But one important aspect of B&S that you didn't mentioned is that they re-balanced the power tiles. Specially for Blue, the new ones are way better, as they make Blue at least decent now...
So we need the original kemet, but with the pyramids, black power tiles, the organization, and player boards of the new one
The Frankenstein edition is the best for sure.
Win Blood and Sand
I'll keep trying to love it. I really do want to justify all the money I spent on it!
I’m late to the party! As someone who’s never played og Kemet, I’ll say that the “complicated rules” comment doesn’t land for me. The harbors are pretty intuitive and are aided by arrows on the board. Rulebook is bad, sure, but given how many complaints I’ve seen from online people, I found the learning process… not that bad? Also, super subjective, but the og minis are so ugly to me 😂
I've been forcing myself to play blood and sand more, and it's growing on me.
I always hate when games do this with their newer editions. Seems pretty obvious but the updated edition shouldn't improve and worsen different elements of the game. I just bought blood and sand (as a new Kemet player) and I did get a good deal out of it. I just wish I could have the best of both of worlds in something like a board game which already shouldn't be that hard to do well, particularly for an experienced company. It feels good to say with confidence that the copy you have keeps the best parts of the old and gets rid of the gunk. Good review.
The longer the game sits in my cupboard unplayed, the more annoying it is for me. Thanks for adding your thoughts.
Never had either. I'm waiting for the Blood & Sand copy to arrive. But what I see from this there are differences I both like and dislike. The map thing, I like the looks of the older one better. But I see the new one has a sixth? citadel (does that mean a possible 6th player?) Because that easily overturns my design preferability of the older one. Also, smaller map is a win for me. The figurines, I like the old ones better, they are smaller and have a bit more distinct design which I like more. The new ones feel like they're from another game altogether, especially with the Cthulhu addon. The pyramid buildings are a fine addon, but I dislike small components in games and a lot of small components just give me headaches. The old dice pyramidal d4s I really like, they're less fidly. The icons are also better in the older one, also I see that although the cards are bigger in Blood & Sand, the pictures are cropped. On old ones the same pictures are bigger and show more. I like the artwork and I'd like to see more of it, not less. I'd buy the older Kemet, but the prices haven't dropped that much here where I'm from and second hand Blood & Sand copies are just 10€ more. Also there's only one expansion (for now), which is a big plus for me. I hate collecting boxes and for now it's cheaper for my wallet.
I also got the second edition despite owning the original one and am a little disapointed as well. I hope they do a better job with Cyclades.
Ditto.
Great..... I just sold my original Kemet w/ expansion + customer insert with tile management before this video for half it's value XD.
This is super informative though. May be you can include some information on the upgrade kit once it comes out, I think it changes the old Kemet to new rule + tiles without the new map... wonder how that plays.
Blood and Sand is still a strong game. I don't think I'll get the Cthulhu minis. I've had enough of that theme in other games and it doesn't seem necessary here. I'll probably just leave my Blood and Sand copy at the cottage and keep my original game at home. At least then I don't need to carry it back and forth.
@@LegendaryTactics I think you misunderstood. The upgrade kit has the new tiles and DI in old Kemet style. It is not the Cthulul pack which is separate
@@Andy-td4sj Ah...thank you. I haven't seen that yet. I'll have to check it out though.
@@LegendaryTactics I bought a second copy of original as well which includes upgrade kit. It's a meaningful and nuanced compromise of various elements. I absolutely can see different moods and different crowds preferring second edition or first edition or first edition with the upgrade kit. Everything with you upgrade kit again is made to be compatible with the first edition specifically including graphics and so forth. Even the Cthulhu pack after all is only a modification of the green expansion but again both are separate from the upgrade kit which really focuses on the power tiles especially
looks to me that this video has a tendency for the first edition.
i have both and dont agree with you
I do prefer the original. What has won you over with blood and sand? I really want to love it, but it's a little like the novel Dune for me. I want to like it, but I just don't.
the basic kemet board is for a maximum 5 players and in blood and sand it is for a maximum 6 players, won blood and sand again
I rarely have 6 people at a game session, so that doesn't impact me much. I prefer kemet at 4 players
@@LegendaryTactics 6 players? Are there components for 6 players? There are only 5 colored boards and 5 sets of soldiers ... how does Blood and Sand play 6?
@@ianallen1384 Currently it doesn't, but it was hinted there would be an expansion that brings the 6th player.
Merci pour cette vidéo ! Enfin, quelqu'un qui confirme mes soupçons ! Je savais que la 1 ère édition était amplement suffisante et ingénieuse .
Je ne pourrais pas mieux le dire moi-même.
I agree with this review, the new rules have more holes and are less fun.
Nice. Thanks for the insights.
No problem. It's easy to be critical when they redo your favorite game.
Don't worry, the french rulebook has typos too... What a production.
Are you kidding me? Brutal.
@@LegendaryTactics I'm not. Quite ashamed of Matagot for that.
I can see some Cyclades!
YES! I got the crossover / adapter kit. Very cool.
@@LegendaryTactics your a true player mate, congratulation and I totally agree with the comparison between Kemets
Thanks for this video🏆
You're welcome!!
The point in the pyramid tiles for the player boards is that you fill that with the colors of your pyramids and leave the one you don't have out. So that you have the actions to buy power tiles from the colors you actually have... What could easly be solved by having 4 actions there instead of 3... And one HUGE problem with this new system, is that now you can't EVER buy a power from a color you didn't built in your own city, even if you are curently controling a pyramid of said color from another player =/
PS: You didn't said anything about the Book of Dead expansion... Wich is what I'm most interested in!
Oh man, I didn't think of that limitation, but you're right, now it de-values conquering other people's pyramids to steal their build potential. Sounds like another house rule might be needed. I'll definitely be checking it out, but it didn't come with my copy, so I'll have to wait on the Book of the Dead review.
@@LegendaryTactics this isn’t right. 3.4.3 raise a pyramid. Under pyramid effects “Each Pyramid allows its controller to buy Power tiles that match its color and are of the same or lower level”
And 3.4.2 “buy a power tile” under buying conditions “2. A player can buy a Power tile in the color of a Pyramid they control in an opponent’s City by placing an Action token on ANY available Buy a Power tile action space on their Individual board regardless of color (INCLUDING an «EMPTY» box), and paying PP equal to the level of that Power tile.” (EMPHASIS mine)
@@LegendaryTactics the purpose of the power tile slots is that the different player counts use different numbers of power colors. Two players use two paired down colors. Three and four players use only three colors of power tiles. Five players allows for four colors and if you have the book of the dead expansion that gives you a choice of four out of five colors. This is to keep the pressure up to get the powers you want for your strategy.
@@LegendaryTactics now the deeper cut depends on how you read the rules for the black power tiles in Ta-Seti. If you read them like I do, that the black tile is ADDED to the four actions on the bottom giving you five total actions there and you cover the unused color in your city for ease of use and can move the tile if you need to, to buy the fourth color if you control an opponent’s pyramid (sorry that sentence got away from me). Then, with the use of the “Act of God” token, you can buy four powers powers in one turn and still adhere to the equilibrium rule. One of each color (red, blue, white, black). We are going to leave “twin ceremony “ out of this discussion.
If you read it as other people I’ve encountered as “if you move the black power token you’ve still used the space” then the number of power tiles that you can purchase is fixed at three.
The other implications of this rule is that it might give more incentive to take over opponent’s pyramids. If I want to buy more than one red power tiles in one turn (again without “twin ceremony”) I take over an opponent’s red pyramid and buy powers by “placing an Action token on ANY available Buy a Power tile action space on their Individual board REGARDLESS of color (including an «empty» box)” Again EMPHASIS mine. And as long as I control an opponent’s Red Pyramid I can use all three “buy a power” spots to buy red powers, REGARDLESS of color.
@@DeadHyena Oh good. That would detract from the game otherwise. Thanks for clarifying.
It looks a lot like a cash grab. I have the new edition and think that the new version was not tested. My complains: The insert is to small to hold the fame point board. The harbors and the map make it more confusing. The rulebook is terrible. We played a whole game of kemet wrong with the 2 black blood card because we thought that 2 troops of the enemy will be removed... Iconography is terrible. Another stupid design decision is the sorting of the tiles. You are supposed to put the level one tiles on the bottom of the tray and level 4 on the top according to the icons in the trays. However in the player aid for each player the order is flipped.... Why?? It makes it just more difficult. The miniatures are okay but look kind of ugly. Not up to the standards of recent miniature games. The player boards are warped. The token tray only has 3 spots to put the tokens into but you have more than 3 types of tokens... 😣 😔 It is a great game but the mentioned issues are just stupid. If you make a second edition of a great board game, just make it better. METAGOT is not a good publisher.
I wonder if the people writing the rules and testing the game were just too close to it. They take a lot for granted rather than explaining it as if a player has never played the game before. I also played my first game wrong with the unblockable damage card, fully knowing that the old card sacrificed units for the big attack, but trusting the iconography. I agree with just about everything you've said. It already feels as if a 2.5 rules edition is necessary.
The rulebook it's close to terrible
old one, all the way
For sure. Perhaps I'm just resistant to change, but original Kemet was really hard to improve on.