I lived in San Francisco for a year. I remember the fog rolling in there. Very impressive, never lived anywhere with anything like that. Do I assume French Valley fog is similar?
@@JimMorkanywhere on the Pacific coast can have thick fog blown in by the onshore winds. Sometimes it is so strong we get a marine layer all the way up to Sacramento.
I went over to the crash scene around 5:30AM, it had to have been 1/4 mile vis at best on the ground. Not even possible to get in at minimums. What is sad is we get the marine layer burn off by 7 or 8 AM. Easily would be alive had they just waited a couple hours.
@@breth8159 yeah, totally believe it was foggy there. There are amazing differences in the weather between here and French valley, despite it being only 16 miles away.
We used to get launched at 3AM to fly to the east/west coast from Tinker. It was so early I never even went to bed. Which means I was probably awake 20 hours before the flight even started. Needless to say we did a carrier landing and didn't try to finesse anything. These guys could have had a nice breakfast and took off at sunup.
Bruce wrote, "We can always count on you with better information than the media reports" Sure, Juan does a better job -- Of course the working media has to tell the news about this tragedy in 30 seconds...Or write the news article in a 500 to 1,000 word story...
@bobcuster8930 The problem is that journalists commonly know _nothing_ about airplanes or flying, so what gets reported is often full of errors. Unfortunately it's the same with reports about almost all topics that include information related to science, technology, or some specialized field.
@@pulaski1 The word 'nothing' is not correct. Most trained journalists know a little about many things. and they cannot sit on one story for 3 days to figure out more details. Compared to Juan's knowledge, you are right, they know little.
I know the airport well as I can see the runway from my living room windows, where the plane crashed is about 30 or 40 feet below the actual runway and yes it was pretty foggy this morning. What makes it worse is its dark at 4.30am. Regardless the plane was way too low to make it to the runway. Could be an instrument problem.
Condolences to the families of the victims. Juan is inexhaustible. Not only is he a family man, he is also a commercial major airline captain, and a very active civilian aviation enthusiast. Now add in his very dedicated work here on his blancolirio channel, and it's just amazing, IMHO. Prolific! .
French Valley has pilot controlled runway lights. They stay on for 15 minutes after 3 Mike clicks. From FlightAware it was about 18 minutes from starting the first approach until the crash. I gotta wonder if they forgot to reset the lights and they flipped off at a critical time when trying to break minimums …
I'm very curious about this, and if it was different between first and second approach. Unfortunately we don't have CTAF recordings but surveillance video would work.
The San Diego County marine layer can be very tricky sometimes. It can be clear as day in one place and socked in a few miles up the road. I used to live about 2 miles northeast of French Valley airport right off French Valley Road. The airport sits right next to state highway 79 and is pretty heavily traveled. The Riverside County Juvenile Hall is about 1 mile or so East of the airport on French Valley Road. Also Diamond Valley Lake is maybe 5 miles Northeast of the airport. In the time I lived in French Valley back in 2006 I never experienced any issues with problems at the airport. There are, however, times when there are some tricky winds coming out of the east which result in cross winds right across the runway. Two crashes in 4 days is not good. Perhaps there will be some changes made to make it a controlled airfield. Prayers and condolences to the families of those who perished.
The main issue is no tower and basic medium intensity landing lights (which if old, like most fields like this, are like low at a major airport). Also, radar and flight control is handled by March AFB, which is OK, but not really the same as on-site. So apparently you are good on the approach, but actual final and landing are on your own.
@@sdoc5117 Some people are speculating that the lights were a major issue. It's apparently a system where the lights are turned on by the pilot. And they automatically turn off after several minutes. Which is pretty close to the time it took to try again. So it might have been that the lights turned off when he was on final. A tower wouldn't make that mistake. It also could see the immediate conditions locally instead of whatever is appearing on radar and guessing. A lot of accidents and near-accidents happen on fields like this, so even a small tower is a masive upgrade.
Yup. Sporty's teaches us that, usually, if you have to fly a missed approach and go-around due to bad weather, it's better to divert somewhere else as the odds of the weather conditions changing during your go-around are slim to none.
Likely saw the runway on the first miss and decided to roll the dice and give it another shot. Fog can be deceptive. Looking straight down at a runway below the visibility can seem okay. Slant? Not so much. I've dealt with marine layer fog at KMRY a lot, and unless you screwed something up the first time (and it looks like this crew did not) second approaches are rarely justified. Landing nearby in VFR and waiting for it to lift was always my Plan B.
@@JimMorkproably, but I'm not a pilot. My assumption is, and correct me if I am wrong, there were paying customers on the flight. And if so, the pilots may feel more pressure to land where their clients want to go from their bosses as opposed to if you fly for United and you can't land at an airport you probably aren't going to get fired.
@@csolivais1979 Human Factors. "Pressure to force a landing". But again this makes me wonder if these are capable pilots. And how capable was the guy whose piloting killed Buddy Holley? I suppose NTSB had a report on that, too. I think (and Juan can correct me) a professional pilots tells passengers that this weather is too dangerous, I'd rather drop you off where weather is less dangerous, and then just does it.
A relevant pertinent memory. I met a niece and nephew in Las Vegas some years ago. The niece flew from Vancouver BC. The nephew drove from LA. He arrived hours later than we did, but he intended to stay a couple of days whereas I was there with reservations to return home the following day. So he just drove his car. It is doable. If you drink, factor the hotel stay into it. Sober up to drive home. These short hop things SEEM "chancy" in my view of things. A sober skillful driver has more control.
@@JimMork Except for the OTHER drivers on the road. And some of those can be really bad these days! Also, there's a reason a lot of people are happy about the plans to put in a high speed train from L.A. to Vegas. The I-15 is notorious for the traffic resulting from the popularity of the destination. It's easy to throw a few things in the suitcase and hop in your car. But hitting the traffic jam in the desert can give you second thoughts.
Juan - In '70s Beaver float plane, dense fog up in Canada, cleared to settle to lake. Middle of descent, saw rock (mountain cliff) almost dead ahead. He yelled, "Take Yoke", tended to his Beaver, & when straight up grabbed Yoke, slalomed down slope DeHavillanding trees, until could clear for safety of dense fog, landing OK! We Dodged home in my van to never return!
Note that on flight aware the plane left F70 to LAS at ~9PM the evening before... Likely same pilot/crew, so I'd put crew fatigue high on the possible contributions....given the 3AM departure
For those of you that saw the button very quickly as Juan was scrolling photos. It said "Speed kills, fly a cub and live forever". I thought it would say something clever like "Never fart when your upwind"
@@toStringy As long as you have the extra fuel and don’t change the parameters of the approach making multiple approaches really doesn’t matter. If the field is below minimums, then that makes a difference if you’re operating under Part 91 or Part 135.
This came up in my Twitter feed first thing this morning. Not a happy way to start my leisurely Saturday morning. Even worse for the families and other people directly involved. Thank you for covering these incidents!
F70 is my home airport. I’ve lived in this area for 30+ years and I’d be willing to bet that at that time of day the airport was well below minimums. Even driving is hazardous along Highway 79 in the early mornings. Sad news and condolences to the families.
I live is So Cal and I know of many private groups doing LAS quick junkets. You just organize, pile on, split the costs for a Friday night of Vegas and come back at 3am in the morning. No hotel costs, and a nice Friday evening. They probably pushed it trying to get into the destination. At the time, it probably seemed like a pain for everyone to divert Riverside or San Bernadino and do a UBER at 4am. Probably couldn't have found one. So, you looking at adding 4-5 hours onto the day.
To me, this sounds more fun than a party bus. Except I'm not that interested in Vegas as a destination. Diverting to Palm Springs might have increased their chances of finding entertainment until sunup, then resume the flight. Pilot could have a nap, too. IF the rules allow it.
It's fortunate that the plane didn't crash into one of the housing subdivisions that Riverside County has allowed to be built right up next to the airport and the approach to runway 1-8.
At 1900 ft from the end of 18, the GPS approach crosses over a business and shopping center. Then the terrain is open land but gently descending in elevation over the next 1000 ft to the bottom of a small ravine. At 850 ft from the runway end, the terrain abruptly rises forming a bit of a shelf about 20 ft high. At 350 ft from the runway end is another abrupt step up in elevation of approximately 20 ft. as well, created by fill for the actual runway. This aircraft hit the first shelf. My impression is the aircraft was very slow as the debris field is quite small, with the pilot straining to find the runway. The aircraft wreckage is perfectly on the extended runway centerline. The approach to 18 at F70 is really a bit like a carrier landing as the runway is significantly higher than the terrain preceding it. As the prevailing wind dumps off the end of the runway, it creates a bit of a downdraft. Of course, at the time of the accident, the wind would have been calm, so that would not have been a factor. But what if a radar altimeter was in use or some other such altitude reporting device. A pilot trying to still make an approach, though below minimums, could easily get suckered into being well below the runway elevation before getting there. Lastly, this aircraft flew from F70 to LAS earlier in the evening getting into LAS about 10:30 at night. Good chance the pilot had been up all day and all night for the 4:30 departure from LAS to F70. Everybody just wanted to get home...
A 3am departure Las Vegas?..A basic non-jet pilot question: Why the very unusual departure time in the dark to fly one hour to destination? 6 lives lost. A tragedy. Defies logic. Heart breaking for the families..
Las Vegas runs 24/7. Go any time, play any time, return home any time. IF you can stay awake. When I was a kid, my family often took summer trips to Colorado to see the relatives. At our home in coastal Los Angeles County, we'd get up around 3 a.m., leave around 4 a.m., drive till sunrise, stop for a leisurely breakfast because the sun was in my dad's eyes. After the sun was well up, we'd get across the desert before it got too hot, and find our air conditioned motel room in Las Vegas, St. George UT, or Williams AZ by midafternoon. Same on the return trip. Leave St. George or Las Vegas a couple hours before sunrise, and be home to the cool coast by 10AM or noon. As an adult, I tried this on the return trip with my husband one time. Drove out of Las Vegas around 4AM after breakfast at Denny's. I could not keep my eyes open, so I had my husband drive instead. Here's another thought about flying in the desert: Leaving at 3AM, your density altitude is going to be more favorable than leaving at 3PM. As a side note, on some of the road trips, my parents saw farmers driving their tractors in their fields at night using their headlights near Needles, CA. No A/C in farm equipment back then. Summer heat in the desert MUST be reckoned with!
Someone just posted they arrived LAS at 10pm. So it was a quick stop at some event, and they probably calculated they could charter a plane for less than what hotel rooms would have cost.
@@Plutogalaxy It reminds me of the stuff I did as a teenager... but fortunately I didn't have the keys to a plane or the cash to hire one! I'm grateful to have gotten through my drinking days without any vehicle incidents. I certainly didn't deserve that kind of grace. 🙏
Once again another sad incident. RIP those that perished and condolences to family and friends. JB appreciate your update. Thanks for your time and resources. Take care and fly safe. 🖖🏼🤟🏼
geofigy. A competent pilot would not take risks by flying a plane in poor weather. They see it as a challenge and are willing to endanger the lives of their passengers. If the pilot had lived through the crash, then I would make sure his pilot-license was revoked.
@--blancolirio All I know about the crash is the dispatch and radio traffic as the incident unfolded in real time. Apparently the plane had two souls on board and went into the ocean off the north end of the run way. The Shelter Cove Volunteer Fire Department, CAL FIRE Helicopter and Coast Guard and Reach Air ambulance all part of the rescue of the two. Both patients taken to St Joseph's Hospital in Eureka up here in Humboldt County California. Don't know more than this.
I am so sorry to hear of another fatal accident at that airport. Keep us updates as things are investigated. Sending prayers your way for a happy trip and back home, Capt. Brown.
Good report. I fly into this field a lot. There's rising terrain surrounding the airport, although not as challenging as many other SD airports, it definitely has challenging dynamics at times (fog, traffic, terrain). Currently the ILS at Carlsbad is out of service so that wasn't an alternative option but Riverside, San Bernadino, Orange Co., and Palm Springs are all within 15-20 min and would've provided better options, although inconvenient. Palm Springs would've been clear and the others would've had lower approaches, presumably. I've stopped a few times in past mornings at Thermal to wait out the low fog and it sucks, but I'm still alive. RIP.
I took some flying lessons at the French Valley airport and rented my first aircraft there after getting my pilots licence back in 1991 and even ferried an aircraft from Hemet back to French Valley for my instructor. Get thereitis strikes again. Sad to hear of so many fatal accidents.
One thing I noticed was the excessive speed. The approach was fast, the missed approach go around went past 200 kts. Seems to just be yet another case of “gethomeitus” sad sad event
@@RockandRollWoman But there was no original landing. The premise was based on stats and speculated that the pilots were more determined to get in the second time and were willing to take more risk.
@@BDOutdoorsCanada Obviously there wasn't an original landing if there was a go around. Your second post gets to my question. Whoever wrote what you referred to looked at stats and speculated that the pilots were more determined to get in the second time and were willing to take more risk. That's the why I was looking for.
@@BDOutdoorsCanada Try this instead: "the planned original landing had its own risks..." or "the original landing must have had its own risks. " i mentioned the original landing because there had to be some risk there, or there wouldn't have been a go around. So I wanted to know, what is it that causes the second attempt to have double the risk of the first in a situation where there was already enough risk that the pilot didn't land when he originally planned to? (I wasn't writing like I would if I were filing a legal brief in the Supreme Court. 😁) Anyway, I learned from your second post why the person believed risk doubled. And the only reasons I read YT comments are to learn or to have the joys of music and laughter, so mission accomplished.
Record number of flights... my lessons keep getting canceled or shortened here in N Ca due to aircraft performance issues, been a strange summer so far.
Juan if you are over in Dublin on the 29th & 30th July the Bray Airshow is on along the seafront. Just a thought if you are looking for something to do.
I just recently got a job as an A&p mechanic and ironically I am working on this same exact kind of aircraft. Citation 550. Weird to think how it would feel being in that situation in that aircraft. Rip all that were lost
According to FlightAware, this aircraft arrived at LAS at 10:04 PM on Friday, July 7th on a flight from French Valley. If it was the same PF on the July 7th flight as on the fatal flight today (July 8th) which departed LAS at 3:16 AM, is that sufficient rest time?
@@blancolirio Perhaps yes. We'll await the NTSB report. The aircraft's recent flight history is interesting and would lead me to believe they were possibly based at French Valley and therefore would be accustomed to the weather. The aircraft also had a diversion from MCC to MCR on June 27, which I would presume was because of weather.
It appears now that the PIC was Riese Lenders, 25, of Ranch Palos Verdes. According to the Desert sun "The National Transportation Safety Board said at least one of the passengers was a certified commercial pilot, who was in the pilot seat, according to accident investigator Eliott Simpson."
Knowing French Valley it was probably more of a tule fog situation rather than the marine layer (quite a bit inland from the coast with an intervening mountain range). Also telling are reports of no fog in nearby communities. RIP to the victims😞
The mountain range is not that high, though. The marine layer could go over it, or come up from the south where the I-15 corridor runs. Forecast for tonight is patchy fog. If the patch is where you want to land/drive/see the stars, too bad.
As a resident and F70 local, patchy low advection fog is common this time of year. The airport is on a bit of a hill and the surrounding areas can be below that fog which tends to stratify anywhere between about 1200 and 1700ft MSL in these kinds of conditions which can be unpredictable and dynamic.
Welcome to Dublin. Was that the airbridge to your plane that collapsed at Dublin Airport this morning? I hope it didn't delay your transfer to your hotel too much.
Been waiting on this. I just flew there a week ago on Saturday. It was like wild wild west with tons of traffic. The marine layer there is crazy every morning and usually doesn't burn off till about 10 am. At 415 there's no way you could see anything. Such a terrible tragedy.
I worked on several projects for the Navy on San clemente Island. Flew out of and back to French valley once a week for a couple of years. Some flights were damn frightening.
I think pilot fatigue had a major role in this accident. Just look at their schedule that night and the night before. I flew into Las Vegas last night and flew out around 11 pm. By the time I went to sleep at 1 pm I was very tired. Night flying takes a toll and fatigue deteriorates performance worse than alcohol.
@@00andJoe Yeah that too. Also I think W&B was an issue. That old jet was packed with max capacity of 6 pax. Don’t know what their weights were but even if they are avg std males, that’d be 180 to 200 lbs easily and with their baggage of 200 to 240 lbs total. That could have easily exceeded the MZFW and MLW.
@@user-gg2ty5tk8k Shows how shallow I am, I didn't think "Did they have fuel to skip a foggy landing?" Would be pretty amateur to run out of fuel, but I did see many years ago some actress died in a plane that lacked fuel to fly to the next gas station.
@@JimMork It certainly should have been! First if they were flying on an IFR flight unusable This has all the markings of somebody pushing mins on an instrument approach maybe the first time they got the lights in sight just as they went missed and thought the second time around that if they went a bit lower they would be able to see the runway or runway environment. A sin many of us [including me!] have committed at least once. Max Trescott mentioned that the automated weather worsened between approach #1 and 2. As an aside which has nothing to do with the accident F70 remains I believe the most recent GA airport built in CA, it was constructed in the early 1990's to replace the former Rancho California Airport which was just West of I-15-talk about a tight spot up against the mountains.
@@redblade8160 I gave a thumbs up because it informed me and I have no problem admitting that. Because people died it's still a hard thing to do, but necessary for the algorithms.
Thank you. I didn’t know about it until I saw the RSO Press Release on their app. I was wondering why a news helicopter was showing on my flight tracker this morning around 9AM. I am in Menifee and interested in flying. I want to eventually take my discovery flight there once I can get a chance. I even already bought a log book lol. I’m almost 40, and never even flew commercially. Only been in a helicopter for a tour around Crazy Horse monument in SD and a single engine once at Riverside Airport at an air show, both when I was a kid.
RIP to all who lost their lives and peace to their families. Very tragic. Did I hear you say the approach was at 4:15? Is there any daylight at 04:15? It is quite a different situation if it is dark.
Dark AND foggy! In a valley with plenty of varying terrain... flying a jet. I'd prefer to hit the ground in something going a little slower. Better yet, divert to Palm Springs or someplace without fog, and land properly.
Thank You Mr Brown,. A few minutes ago on TikTok found video of Riese Lenders dated 01-17 with the words SOME FREEZING RAIN AND LOW IFR INTO F70" (French Valley) with what looked like a Citation ... scary stuff ... over confidence???
Sad news on both accidents. Odd time to be flying from Las Vegas to French Valley unless maybe the passengers had originated at French Valley the previous day/evening. A quick trip to Vegas? I wonder how rested the crew was?
Even well rested, that is a hard time to go from the lights of Vegas to that kind of visual situation. I know it is done all the time, but not by people inexperienced in such challenges.
Will be interesting to see what the pilot's duty day entailed. Were they rested enough to meet the challenge? They were flying on the back side of the clock for most people.
Automotive accident studies suggest that even if a person works nmat night consistently and basically has the same routine every night for months they still have a significantly slower reaction time at night. So, it is the wrong side of the clock for every human, apparently.
@@brianhaygood183 Worked several years on what was then called the "graveyard" shift (11:30p to 8:00a), 10 days on, 4 off. Definitely had an impact on my sleep patterns and alertness - especially transitioning from the all night shifts to living like a normal person the other 4.
Thanks. I learned so much more from this than all the new reports I read. But still no idea what caused it, since a missed approach is a possibility for any instrument approach and should not end this way. Also, does anyone know if this was a single-pilot operation?
Having been a pilot for 40+ years, and flying a Baron for the last 27 of those years, I am mystified about the owner/operator/pilot's poor judgement to be out flying in those early, early morning hours to an airport that has a reputation for coastal fog and low visibility conditions. Poor judgement from start to tragic finish. Getthereitis kills!
Judging from the crash location, (and this is just my speculation) it looks like he was trying to spot the field by flying a low approach, which is a very outdated and essentially now forbidden method by the FAA versus using a calculated glide slope. If your instruments are out of calibration, you are in real trouble so you never do it. Doubly so if the plane might not have a terrain alert system installed. Again, my speculation. But being that off on your glide path means that you deviated from normal procedures at least once to get there. Because their landing spot on the runway should be about almost a quarter mile from where they hit.
@@bradford2764 Sounds like not the ideal destination. How near are the CONTROLLED airports that are not LAX? A place that has most of the benefits of large airport infrastructure? I saw a video where a pilot had to use a mobile PHONE to communicate! Rendering impossible the pilot flying-pilot monitoring routine.
The human factor is the most troubling factor we can’t seem to beat, because we are…human. I can see myself bringing about so many of the incidents reported on this vital channel. Humility is a tough trait to inculcate in oneself and others. Yes, I’m Captain Obvious, just be glad I’m not a pilot.
Hi Juan, Did you hear about the AA 787 that suffered a door ripped off when an air Bridge Collapsed in Dublin today (09/07/23). Reported locally as the AA Philli flight.
I work at the airport. I arrived at 5 am this morning and I will say that visibility was no more than 1/4 mile
Wow!!
I lived in San Francisco for a year. I remember the fog rolling in there. Very impressive, never lived anywhere with anything like that. Do I assume French Valley fog is similar?
Just dumb .
@@JimMorkanywhere on the Pacific coast can have thick fog blown in by the onshore winds. Sometimes it is so strong we get a marine layer all the way up to Sacramento.
Sad.
The picture that Juan quickly slid through said "Speed Kills, Fly a Cub Live forever" 😅
They are just fast enough to kill you, but you really have to work at it.
The 172 pilot that died earlier in the week was recently certified June 19th for his PPL. Tragic but his boys miraculously survived.
That's so sad. Glad the kids survived. I didn't take my family up in the air until I had over 100 hours.
Children really have no choice sadly. I am not sure I would fly with a low hour pilot. As you say Ahmad,let them build 100 hours or so .
@@annan7728 bAD PILOTSSSS
I went over to the crash scene around 5:30AM, it had to have been 1/4 mile vis at best on the ground. Not even possible to get in at minimums. What is sad is we get the marine layer burn off by 7 or 8 AM. Easily would be alive had they just waited a couple hours.
"Died at night; buried in the sunshine."
NTSB always starts their investigation the next day in clear weather conditions.
I fly my RC planes about a half a mile from French Valley but did not fly this morning due to fog.
I live in Lake Elsinore. No fog here this morning.
@@homomorphicused to operate balloons in Temecula wine country . when you see them in Elsinore it's because it was foggy and Temecula . . .
Strange how FAA believe RC planes are a safety and security risk and forcing home RID yet real planes crash every week 😮
@@breth8159 yeah, totally believe it was foggy there. There are amazing differences in the weather between here and French valley, despite it being only 16 miles away.
loach392.
If only these stupid pilots took as much care with real planes, instead of taking risks for the enjoyment factor.
We used to get launched at 3AM to fly to the east/west coast from Tinker. It was so early I never even went to bed. Which means I was probably awake 20 hours before the flight even started. Needless to say we did a carrier landing and didn't try to finesse anything. These guys could have had a nice breakfast and took off at sunup.
Thank you Jaun! We can always count on you with better information than the media reports. Stay safe in your travels please!
Juan 😉
Bruce wrote,
"We can always count on you with better information than the media reports" Sure, Juan does a better job -- Of course the working media has to tell the news about this tragedy in 30 seconds...Or write the news article in a 500 to 1,000 word story...
@bobcuster8930 The problem is that journalists commonly know _nothing_ about airplanes or flying, so what gets reported is often full of errors. Unfortunately it's the same with reports about almost all topics that include information related to science, technology, or some specialized field.
@@pulaski1 The word 'nothing' is not correct. Most trained journalists know a little about many things. and they cannot sit on one story for 3 days to figure out more details. Compared to Juan's knowledge, you are right, they know little.
@bobcuster8930 If they know so little that they can't avoid making embarrassing mistakes, it might as well be "nothing".
I know the airport well as I can see the runway from my living room windows, where the plane crashed is about 30 or 40 feet below the actual runway and yes it was pretty foggy this morning. What makes it worse is its dark at 4.30am. Regardless the plane was way too low to make it to the runway. Could be an instrument problem.
First hand knowledge...
I think he just flew it into the ground on a straight and level approach !!!300 ft visibility on fog , 1 mile on visibility !!
Thank you for covering this in such a timely manner..
Condolences to the families of the victims. Juan is inexhaustible. Not only is he a family man, he is also a commercial major airline captain, and a very active civilian aviation enthusiast. Now add in his very dedicated work here on his blancolirio channel, and it's just amazing, IMHO. Prolific!
.
FO I think, not captain.
@@sailorkaren
Mechanic? Wash boy?
I really want to learn how he manages to balance everything
@@shirlzitting647that would be corperate world
French Valley has pilot controlled runway lights. They stay on for 15 minutes after 3 Mike clicks. From FlightAware it was about 18 minutes from starting the first approach until the crash. I gotta wonder if they forgot to reset the lights and they flipped off at a critical time when trying to break minimums …
Great point!
Definitely a possibility. I’ve had that happen a few times over the years.
Maybe a surveillance video could be found that shows if the runway lights were on at the time of the crash !
I'm very curious about this, and if it was different between first and second approach. Unfortunately we don't have CTAF recordings but surveillance video would work.
The San Diego County marine layer can be very tricky sometimes. It can be clear as day in one place and socked in a few miles up the road. I used to live about 2 miles northeast of French Valley airport right off French Valley Road. The airport sits right next to state highway 79 and is pretty heavily traveled. The Riverside County Juvenile Hall is about 1 mile or so East of the airport on French Valley Road. Also Diamond Valley Lake is maybe 5 miles Northeast of the airport. In the time I lived in French Valley back in 2006 I never experienced any issues with problems at the airport. There are, however, times when there are some tricky winds coming out of the east which result in cross winds right across the runway. Two crashes in 4 days is not good. Perhaps there will be some changes made to make it a controlled airfield.
Prayers and condolences to the families of those who perished.
The main issue is no tower and basic medium intensity landing lights (which if old, like most fields like this, are like low at a major airport). Also, radar and flight control is handled by March AFB, which is OK, but not really the same as on-site. So apparently you are good on the approach, but actual final and landing are on your own.
@josephoberlander
True. But the tower would have been closed at 0415. And SoCal was likely the controller as March GCA is also closed at that hour.
I'd like to see F70 become a towered airport too, but I don't think it would have helped in this or the other unfortunate accident.
@@sdoc5117 Some people are speculating that the lights were a major issue. It's apparently a system where the lights are turned on by the pilot. And they automatically turn off after several minutes. Which is pretty close to the time it took to try again. So it might have been that the lights turned off when he was on final. A tower wouldn't make that mistake. It also could see the immediate conditions locally instead of whatever is appearing on radar and guessing. A lot of accidents and near-accidents happen on fields like this, so even a small tower is a masive upgrade.
@@josephoberlander That was an issue. He was only maybe 10 minutes from March. March would probably not have been fogged in.
The always famous “ second approach “.
Yup.
Sporty's teaches us that, usually, if you have to fly a missed approach and go-around due to bad weather, it's better to divert somewhere else as the odds of the weather conditions changing during your go-around are slim to none.
@@jackmosher7561... and Slim just left town. 😂
Likely saw the runway on the first miss and decided to roll the dice and give it another shot. Fog can be deceptive. Looking straight down at a runway below the visibility can seem okay. Slant? Not so much. I've dealt with marine layer fog at KMRY a lot, and unless you screwed something up the first time (and it looks like this crew did not) second approaches are rarely justified. Landing nearby in VFR and waiting for it to lift was always my Plan B.
"Roll the dice". Would this cockpit crew make in into a regular airline cockpit?
@@JimMorkproably, but I'm not a pilot. My assumption is, and correct me if I am wrong, there were paying customers on the flight. And if so, the pilots may feel more pressure to land where their clients want to go from their bosses as opposed to if you fly for United and you can't land at an airport you probably aren't going to get fired.
@@csolivais1979 Human Factors. "Pressure to force a landing". But again this makes me wonder if these are capable pilots. And how capable was the guy whose piloting killed Buddy Holley? I suppose NTSB had a report on that, too. I think (and Juan can correct me) a professional pilots tells passengers that this weather is too dangerous, I'd rather drop you off where weather is less dangerous, and then just does it.
A relevant pertinent memory. I met a niece and nephew in Las Vegas some years ago. The niece flew from Vancouver BC. The nephew drove from LA. He arrived hours later than we did, but he intended to stay a couple of days whereas I was there with reservations to return home the following day. So he just drove his car. It is doable. If you drink, factor the hotel stay into it. Sober up to drive home. These short hop things SEEM "chancy" in my view of things. A sober skillful driver has more control.
@@JimMork Except for the OTHER drivers on the road. And some of those can be really bad these days!
Also, there's a reason a lot of people are happy about the plans to put in a high speed train from L.A. to Vegas. The I-15 is notorious for the traffic resulting from the popularity of the destination. It's easy to throw a few things in the suitcase and hop in your car. But hitting the traffic jam in the desert can give you second thoughts.
Juan - In '70s Beaver float plane, dense fog up in Canada, cleared to settle to lake. Middle of descent, saw rock (mountain cliff) almost dead ahead. He yelled, "Take Yoke", tended to his Beaver, & when straight up grabbed Yoke, slalomed down slope DeHavillanding trees, until could clear for safety of dense fog, landing OK! We Dodged home in my van to never return!
Note that on flight aware the plane left F70 to LAS at ~9PM the evening before...
Likely same pilot/crew, so I'd put crew fatigue high on the possible contributions....given the 3AM departure
I have no additional info so not much to talk about just an observation based on flight aware...
For those of you that saw the button very quickly as Juan was scrolling photos. It said "Speed kills, fly a cub and live forever". I thought it would say something clever like "Never fart when your upwind"
As I look at this runway, how is the designations 18/36 if the runway is not pointing North/South?
Thanks Juan for the update 😢
thank you for all you do for the aviation world working to keep all safe
Don't go around, go somewhere else! We can't stress this enough. A couple of hours doesn't matter, tomorrow does. RIP
Don’t go around, go somewhere else? That statement makes absolutely no sense.
@@canyonairI assume he means.. go missed and then go to an alternative..
Great advice
@@canyonair…to me.
@@toStringy As long as you have the extra fuel and don’t change the parameters of the approach making multiple approaches really doesn’t matter. If the field is below minimums, then that makes a difference if you’re operating under Part 91 or Part 135.
Discretion and judgment is all that stands between life or death.
1000% fact....🙏🏽
So often the 2nd approach is one where the pilot, having seen the airport during the 1st attempt, thinks he can safely go below the mins on the 2nd.
Reminds me of a phrase my flight instructor used to use. “If you go hunting for the ground, you’ll find it”.
This came up in my Twitter feed first thing this morning. Not a happy way to start my leisurely Saturday morning. Even worse for the families and other people directly involved. Thank you for covering these incidents!
F70 is my home airport. I’ve lived in this area for 30+ years and I’d be willing to bet that at that time of day the airport was well below minimums. Even driving is hazardous along Highway 79 in the early mornings. Sad news and condolences to the families.
I live is So Cal and I know of many private groups doing LAS quick junkets. You just organize, pile on, split the costs for a Friday night of Vegas and come back at 3am in the morning. No hotel costs, and a nice Friday evening. They probably pushed it trying to get into the destination. At the time, it probably seemed like a pain for everyone to divert Riverside or San Bernadino and do a UBER at 4am. Probably couldn't have found one. So, you looking at adding 4-5 hours onto the day.
What's a few hours delay versus remaining alive? Hope this puts a spotlight upon these charter junkets in the middle of the night.
To me, this sounds more fun than a party bus. Except I'm not that interested in Vegas as a destination. Diverting to Palm Springs might have increased their chances of finding entertainment until sunup, then resume the flight. Pilot could have a nap, too. IF the rules allow it.
Wow!
It's fortunate that the plane didn't crash into one of the housing subdivisions that Riverside County has allowed to be built right up next to the airport and the approach to runway 1-8.
At 1900 ft from the end of 18, the GPS approach crosses over a business and shopping center. Then the terrain is open land but gently descending in elevation over the next 1000 ft to the bottom of a small ravine. At 850 ft from the runway end, the terrain abruptly rises forming a bit of a shelf about 20 ft high. At 350 ft from the runway end is another abrupt step up in elevation of approximately 20 ft. as well, created by fill for the actual runway. This aircraft hit the first shelf. My impression is the aircraft was very slow as the debris field is quite small, with the pilot straining to find the runway. The aircraft wreckage is perfectly on the extended runway centerline.
The approach to 18 at F70 is really a bit like a carrier landing as the runway is significantly higher than the terrain preceding it. As the prevailing wind dumps off the end of the runway, it creates a bit of a downdraft. Of course, at the time of the accident, the wind would have been calm, so that would not have been a factor. But what if a radar altimeter was in use or some other such altitude reporting device. A pilot trying to still make an approach, though below minimums, could easily get suckered into being well below the runway elevation before getting there.
Lastly, this aircraft flew from F70 to LAS earlier in the evening getting into LAS about 10:30 at night. Good chance the pilot had been up all day and all night for the 4:30 departure from LAS to F70. Everybody just wanted to get home...
They definitely made it to their "permanent" home. 🔥 😈
A 3am departure Las Vegas?..A basic non-jet pilot question: Why the very unusual departure time in the dark to fly one hour to destination? 6 lives lost. A tragedy. Defies logic. Heart breaking for the families..
Las Vegas runs 24/7. Go any time, play any time, return home any time. IF you can stay awake.
When I was a kid, my family often took summer trips to Colorado to see the relatives. At our home in coastal Los Angeles County, we'd get up around 3 a.m., leave around 4 a.m., drive till sunrise, stop for a leisurely breakfast because the sun was in my dad's eyes. After the sun was well up, we'd get across the desert before it got too hot, and find our air conditioned motel room in Las Vegas, St. George UT, or Williams AZ by midafternoon. Same on the return trip. Leave St. George or Las Vegas a couple hours before sunrise, and be home to the cool coast by 10AM or noon. As an adult, I tried this on the return trip with my husband one time. Drove out of Las Vegas around 4AM after breakfast at Denny's. I could not keep my eyes open, so I had my husband drive instead.
Here's another thought about flying in the desert: Leaving at 3AM, your density altitude is going to be more favorable than leaving at 3PM. As a side note, on some of the road trips, my parents saw farmers driving their tractors in their fields at night using their headlights near Needles, CA. No A/C in farm equipment back then. Summer heat in the desert MUST be reckoned with!
Someone just posted they arrived LAS at 10pm. So it was a quick stop at some event, and they probably calculated they could charter a plane for less than what hotel rooms would have cost.
@@Plutogalaxy It reminds me of the stuff I did as a teenager... but fortunately I didn't have the keys to a plane or the cash to hire one! I'm grateful to have gotten through my drinking days without any vehicle incidents. I certainly didn't deserve that kind of grace. 🙏
☹️ thanks for the update Juan.
I’ve tried to access the AWOS history but no success. Is there a way to retrieve historic AWOS recordings?
Once again another sad incident. RIP those that perished and condolences to family and friends.
JB appreciate your update. Thanks for your time and resources.
Take care and fly safe. 🖖🏼🤟🏼
geofigy.
A competent pilot would not take risks by flying a plane in poor weather. They see it as a challenge and are willing to endanger the lives of their passengers. If the pilot had lived through the crash, then I would make sure his pilot-license was revoked.
Thank you for covering this Juan.
Crash at Shelter Cove happening now 1241 pm July 8 Humboldt County California. Radio traffic on Broadcastify
@--blancolirio All I know about the crash is the dispatch and radio traffic as the incident unfolded in real time. Apparently the plane had two souls on board and went into the ocean off the north end of the run way. The Shelter Cove Volunteer Fire Department, CAL FIRE Helicopter and Coast Guard and Reach Air ambulance all part of the rescue of the two. Both patients taken to St Joseph's Hospital in Eureka up here in Humboldt County California. Don't know more than this.
Thank you for saying "number of flights" instead of "amount of flights".
Precision!
That's the same bugbear I have with fewer and less
@user-gg2ty5tk8k The word fewer is appropriate for anything that can be counted individually .
Her pond has fewer fish.
@@user-gg2ty5tk8kFewer = numbers (people/cows/vehicles/thunderstorms etc, Less = quantity (flour/fuel/rain etc)
@@hippiebits2071 A light beer in comparison contains less carbs so provides fewer calories.
Both were quantified units, so?
@kathrynmcmorrow7170 Grams of carbs would be the quantifiable unit.
And yes, consuming fewer carbs can be beneficial.
The coldest Winter I ever saw was a Summer in San Francisco.
Mark Twain
Like!
I am so sorry to hear of another fatal accident at that airport. Keep us updates as things are investigated. Sending prayers your way for a happy trip and back home, Capt. Brown.
jharbo1.
As long as there are idiotic pilots around, then these crashes will never stop.
@blancolirio plane just went down about an hour ago into the ocean at shelter cove. 2 we're able to swim back to shore.
Wow. I hope those two were the only ones on board. They're very lucky.
Good report. I fly into this field a lot. There's rising terrain surrounding the airport, although not as challenging as many other SD airports, it definitely has challenging dynamics at times (fog, traffic, terrain). Currently the ILS at Carlsbad is out of service so that wasn't an alternative option but Riverside, San Bernadino, Orange Co., and Palm Springs are all within 15-20 min and would've provided better options, although inconvenient. Palm Springs would've been clear and the others would've had lower approaches, presumably. I've stopped a few times in past mornings at Thermal to wait out the low fog and it sucks, but I'm still alive. RIP.
Well reasoned.
What about KRIV. It is a public airport isn't it?
@@homomorphic yup that works too.
KHMT was open. No fog here this morning. They had to practically fly over it to get to French Valley.
Is the local airfield QNh usually avail or do you get a nearby airport QNH? Just asking regarding the minima for the LPV appraoch.
Why was a plane flying at 3am for a relatively small journey within California? I'm looking for information
Had a GA crash on takeoff here at north Myrtle Beach airport last weekend...5 occupants .....fatalities..a PA32 plane
I took some flying lessons at the French Valley airport and rented my first aircraft there after getting my pilots licence back in 1991 and even ferried an aircraft from Hemet back to French Valley for my instructor. Get thereitis strikes again. Sad to hear of so many fatal accidents.
One thing I noticed was the excessive speed. The approach was fast, the missed approach go around went past 200 kts. Seems to just be yet another case of “gethomeitus” sad sad event
Many years ago I read that the risk in doing a second approach after a missed approach doubles... RIP to all of those in this crash.
Interesting. I'm assuming that the original landing had its own risks, so it's hard to reach any conclusion about why.
@@RockandRollWoman But there was no original landing. The premise was based on stats and speculated that the pilots were more determined to get in the second time and were willing to take more risk.
@@BDOutdoorsCanada Obviously there wasn't an original landing if there was a go around. Your second post gets to my question. Whoever wrote what you referred to looked at stats and speculated that the pilots were more determined to get in the second time and were willing to take more risk. That's the why I was looking for.
@@RockandRollWomanot sure why you mentioned original landing then if you knew there wasn’t one.
@@BDOutdoorsCanada Try this instead: "the planned original landing had its own risks..." or "the original landing must have had its own risks. " i mentioned the original landing because there had to be some risk there, or there wouldn't have been a go around. So I wanted to know, what is it that causes the second attempt to have double the risk of the first in a situation where there was already enough risk that the pilot didn't land when he originally planned to?
(I wasn't writing like I would if I were filing a legal brief in the Supreme Court. 😁)
Anyway, I learned from your second post why the person believed risk doubled. And the only reasons I read YT comments are to learn or to have the joys of music and laughter, so mission accomplished.
Great work Jaun.
It’s even worse because you can tell the guy had an incredible sense of humor because he named his airplane llc prestige worldwide…
Prestige Worldwide? Welcome to CLT by the way.
Boats and Hoes. RIP.
PRESTIGE WORLDWIDE
Glad I’m not the only person that noticed that!
@Therman315 The first word in entertainment
I’ll deck that mother……
Welcome to Charlotte Juan!
Record number of flights... my lessons keep getting canceled or shortened here in N Ca due to aircraft performance issues, been a strange summer so far.
Hemet was a good alternative, no fog, a 30 minute drive from French Valley. Nothing is more important than your life, Nothing!
That's too sad. Condolance to the families for their loss.
We need to understand the root causes, and learn from such tragic events.
Juan if you are over in Dublin on the 29th & 30th July the Bray Airshow is on along the seafront. Just a thought if you are looking for something to do.
I just recently got a job as an A&p mechanic and ironically I am working on this same exact kind of aircraft. Citation 550. Weird to think how it would feel being in that situation in that aircraft. Rip all that were lost
I did my private pilot training at French Valley!! That’s so close to my home.
According to FlightAware, this aircraft arrived at LAS at 10:04 PM on Friday, July 7th on a flight from French Valley. If it was the same PF on the July 7th flight as on the fatal flight today (July 8th) which departed LAS at 3:16 AM, is that sufficient rest time?
Wow! Maybe different crew?
@@blancolirio Perhaps yes. We'll await the NTSB report. The aircraft's recent flight history is interesting and would lead me to believe they were possibly based at French Valley and therefore would be accustomed to the weather. The aircraft also had a diversion from MCC to MCR on June 27, which I would presume was because of weather.
It appears now that the PIC was Riese Lenders, 25, of Ranch Palos Verdes. According to the Desert sun "The National Transportation Safety Board said at least one of the passengers was a certified commercial pilot, who was in the pilot seat, according to accident investigator Eliott Simpson."
As always, thanks for the coverage, JB. Safe flight to Dublin.
Knowing French Valley it was probably more of a tule fog situation rather than the marine layer (quite a bit inland from the coast with an intervening mountain range). Also telling are reports of no fog in nearby communities. RIP to the victims😞
The mountain range is not that high, though. The marine layer could go over it, or come up from the south where the I-15 corridor runs. Forecast for tonight is patchy fog. If the patch is where you want to land/drive/see the stars, too bad.
As a resident and F70 local, patchy low advection fog is common this time of year. The airport is on a bit of a hill and the surrounding areas can be below that fog which tends to stratify anywhere between about 1200 and 1700ft MSL in these kinds of conditions which can be unpredictable and dynamic.
I flew in as passenger a few years ago. Clear weather, midday. Small 2 seater. We called to join the pattern of 8 or 10 others.
Thanks Juan.
Did hear an initial report. Need to hear how this played out.
Thank You Juan. Clear sky's and safe travels.
Welcome to Dublin. Was that the airbridge to your plane that collapsed at Dublin Airport this morning? I hope it didn't delay your transfer to your hotel too much.
When in doubt, DON'T! Drilled into my head by several instructors many years ago! It is still there like a neon sign blinking in my head!
Been waiting on this. I just flew there a week ago on Saturday. It was like wild wild west with tons of traffic. The marine layer there is crazy every morning and usually doesn't burn off till about 10 am. At 415 there's no way you could see anything. Such a terrible tragedy.
"Getthereitis," perhaps?
Well, after tomorrow things are supposed to heat up and clear up. Of course, the heat brings other issues...
@1.blancolirio Uh oh. Talk? Am I in trouble?
@@ahmadsamadzai8255We believe that comment to be from a scammer impersonating as Blancolirio.
@davidpeterson7197 OK thank you. I thought I was in trouble. lol
Check out Watertown, Wisconsin. We had a plane crash in a soccer field about a month ago. A man and his grandson. Fatal unfortunately.
Blanco, were you at the Dublin airport for the bridge collapse today?
Juan, thank you for your clear analyis.
I worked on several projects for the Navy on San clemente Island. Flew out of and back to French valley once a week for a couple of years. Some flights were damn frightening.
Was that a citation that crashed off San Clemente Island recently?
@TheGospelQuartetParadise I had to look it up. it looks like it was a learjet.
I think pilot fatigue had a major role in this accident. Just look at their schedule that night and the night before. I flew into Las Vegas last night and flew out around 11 pm. By the time I went to sleep at 1 pm I was very tired. Night flying takes a toll and fatigue deteriorates performance worse than alcohol.
That, and the fact they missed the first approach twigs my antennae for a case of 'get there itis'...
@@00andJoe Yeah that too. Also I think W&B was an issue. That old jet was packed with max capacity of 6 pax. Don’t know what their weights were but even if they are avg std males, that’d be 180 to 200 lbs easily and with their baggage of 200 to 240 lbs total. That could have easily exceeded the MZFW and MLW.
Doubly so since it was unlikely that an aircraft this old was retrofitted with a ground alert system. In those cases, be extra careful.
@@ArizonaAirspace So if you had 6 passengers, who was flying the jet?
It was a 45 minute flight with a private plane, no pilot fatigue. There was very dense fog in that area, visibility was almost 0.
It's just so sad to listen to some of your reports. Some if not many of the accidents, preventable. Especially the 172 with father and children.
The 172 was not a takeoff event, it crashed during landing!
Waiting a few hours would have made all the difference.
And/or diverting to Carlsbad with an ILS…
Actually, not going below minimums would make all the difference, as like many of these.
@@carlrossi7989 My first thought: Was diversion an option?
@@user-gg2ty5tk8k Shows how shallow I am, I didn't think "Did they have fuel to skip a foggy landing?" Would be pretty amateur to run out of fuel, but I did see many years ago some actress died in a plane that lacked fuel to fly to the next gas station.
@@JimMork It certainly should have been! First if they were flying on an IFR flight unusable
This has all the markings of somebody pushing mins on an instrument approach maybe the first time they got the lights in sight just as they went missed and thought the second time around that if they went a bit lower they would be able to see the runway or runway environment. A sin many of us [including me!] have committed at least once. Max Trescott mentioned that the automated weather worsened between approach #1 and 2.
As an aside which has nothing to do with the accident F70 remains I believe the most recent GA airport built in CA, it was constructed in the early 1990's to replace the former Rancho California Airport which was just West of I-15-talk about a tight spot up against the mountains.
Hard to 'thumb up' a report like this. Thanks for the info.
Agreed Dale. It's a conflicting situation. I now view thumbs up for the report and not the situation reported.
daleannharsh.
You gave it a "thumbs up" because it entertained you, and that's what you don't like to admit.
@@redblade8160 Hi red... I think you are wrong in your assertion and of course you provide no evidence in your assertion anyway. Entertainment?
@@redblade8160 I gave a thumbs up because it informed me and I have no problem admitting that. Because people died it's still a hard thing to do, but necessary for the algorithms.
My wife and I flew into and out of this airport in a 172 back in 2019. To hear of these two accidents is heartbreaking.
golfnovember
I'm sure your heart is not breaking; you are just seeking attention.
Thanks Juan, sorry for the families loss.
Juan did your aircraft have a mishap with an airbridge at Dublin today Just seen the pictures
Thank you. I didn’t know about it until I saw the RSO Press Release on their app. I was wondering why a news helicopter was showing on my flight tracker this morning around 9AM.
I am in Menifee and interested in flying. I want to eventually take my discovery flight there once I can get a chance. I even already bought a log book lol. I’m almost 40, and never even flew commercially. Only been in a helicopter for a tour around Crazy Horse monument in SD and a single engine once at Riverside Airport at an air show, both when I was a kid.
RIP to all who lost their lives and peace to their families. Very tragic. Did I hear you say the approach was at 4:15? Is there any daylight at 04:15? It is quite a different situation if it is dark.
Dark AND foggy! In a valley with plenty of varying terrain... flying a jet. I'd prefer to hit the ground in something going a little slower. Better yet, divert to Palm Springs or someplace without fog, and land properly.
Thank You Mr Brown,. A few minutes ago on TikTok found video of Riese Lenders dated 01-17 with the words SOME FREEZING RAIN AND LOW IFR INTO F70" (French Valley) with what looked like a Citation ... scary stuff ... over confidence???
Sad news on both accidents. Odd time to be flying from Las Vegas to French Valley unless maybe the passengers had originated at French Valley the previous day/evening. A quick trip to Vegas? I wonder how rested the crew was?
Most likely owner flown
I agree, such an odd time of day to leave Las Vegas...
Even well rested, that is a hard time to go from the lights of Vegas to that kind of visual situation. I know it is done all the time, but not by people inexperienced in such challenges.
Reports this morning say the pilot of the 172 passed his checkride on 16 JUN, its not updated in the airmen registry yet.
That was fast. Just heard this in the morning. Thanks.
Hey any news on the ICON A5 crash ?😩
Was that you guys in Dublin today 07/09/23 with the jet bridge incident ? Can you report on it ?
Thank You Juan.......
Prestige Worldwide branching out beyond boats n’ XXX-seems to be going as expected
Three airports in Las Vegas. Which one?
Will be interesting to see what the pilot's duty day entailed. Were they rested enough to meet the challenge? They were flying on the back side of the clock for most people.
Automotive accident studies suggest that even if a person works nmat night consistently and basically has the same routine every night for months they still have a significantly slower reaction time at night. So, it is the wrong side of the clock for every human, apparently.
@@brianhaygood183
Worked several years on what was then called the "graveyard" shift (11:30p to 8:00a), 10 days on, 4 off. Definitely had an impact on my sleep patterns and alertness - especially transitioning from the all night shifts to living like a normal person the other 4.
I was wondering just how fast you would have something up on this. I read about it in local Las Vegas news.
Thanks. I learned so much more from this than all the new reports I read. But still no idea what caused it, since a missed approach is a possibility for any instrument approach and should not end this way. Also, does anyone know if this was a single-pilot operation?
Bet it was single pilot for sure - O wow. Decisions -
A later news report says "there were two pilots on board, one of whom was acting as a co-pilot". Sorry, can't post the link here.
Having been a pilot for 40+ years, and flying a Baron for the last 27 of those years, I am mystified about the owner/operator/pilot's poor judgement to be out flying in those early, early morning hours to an airport that has a reputation for coastal fog and low visibility conditions. Poor judgement from start to tragic finish. Getthereitis kills!
Judging from the crash location, (and this is just my speculation) it looks like he was trying to spot the field by flying a low approach, which is a very outdated and essentially now forbidden method by the FAA versus using a calculated glide slope. If your instruments are out of calibration, you are in real trouble so you never do it. Doubly so if the plane might not have a terrain alert system installed. Again, my speculation. But being that off on your glide path means that you deviated from normal procedures at least once to get there. Because their landing spot on the runway should be about almost a quarter mile from where they hit.
Thanks for the review...unfortunate accidents...
Deepest sympathy. In Australia, just had a Caboolture mid-air crash very recently.
Oh wow. I worked in the warehouses just at the end of this runway for years. Sad to hear about another crash.
"Another crash". This is one of several French Valley crashes?
@@JimMorksecond fatal crash this week
@@bradford2764 Sounds like not the ideal destination. How near are the CONTROLLED airports that are not LAX? A place that has most of the benefits of large airport infrastructure? I saw a video where a pilot had to use a mobile PHONE to communicate! Rendering impossible the pilot flying-pilot monitoring routine.
@@bradford2764 Advise pilots to change flight plan.
The human factor is the most troubling factor we can’t seem to beat, because we are…human. I can see myself bringing about so many of the incidents reported on this vital channel. Humility is a tough trait to inculcate in oneself and others.
Yes, I’m Captain Obvious, just be glad I’m not a pilot.
Yeh, me too. Planes scare me.
Hi Juan, Did you hear about the AA 787 that suffered a door ripped off when an air Bridge Collapsed in Dublin today (09/07/23). Reported locally as the AA Philli flight.
F70 was almost always my go to airport if I couldn’t get into KCNO. It is VFR most of the time.
Interesting report, thank you!
A photograph of the pilot is now on DailyMail; he was a 25-year-old surfer (i.e. risk-taker)...
I wrenched on many Cessna 550's at PDX (FlightCraft) long ago, looking forward to finding out what went wrong...