I love how Tod could have just dunked the sword under water, but no, he dunked himself in at the same time. Does it make the experiment any more valid? Not really, but I can't help but admire the dedication.
It actually makes a lot of sense for knives and swords to be made by multiple people in medieval times. If you are going to outfit an army, then instead of a single person makeing one entire sword maybe every two days, it would be faster for someone to be churning out blades all day while another person churns out handles and another scabbards, all to be assembled by another person elsewhere. It's kinda like an assembly line.
Absolutely! Way easier for someone to get good at making one thing quickly than to learn to do ten different things quickly. It's also the case that there were places that were hubs for certain kinds of goods, like Solingen for blades. It was common (not just in the medieval period) for blades to be made in one place, and then made into functional swords/knives elsewhere. So you could have one smith hammering out several blades in a day or two, and then after a few months those blades could be in four different countries fitted to guards and pommels that fit the regional tastes. To take that even further I can think of examples of African swords that Europeans stumbled across in the 1900's that had straight double edged blades (exactly like the stereotypical medieval european sword) fitted to locally made African guard, grip, and pommel. If I remember rightly those blades were actually made in parts of Germany in like the 1700's or 1800's (after Europeans had moved away from that style of blade) specifically for the African export market. Sorry for the essay lol.
And if it resembles modern day civilian and military contracting, the products are going to be made by the lowest bidder who meets the minimum specifications.
It makes sense, if conditions for mass production are met. It's only worthwhile (or even possible) to break down production into lots of small steps each carried out by someone with a very narrow specialisation when you are able to: secure lots of capital to bring together enough people in the same workshop (or have a sufficiently mature market for a reliable supply chain up and down stream), and have access to a sufficiently large customer base so that there's enough demand for all your wares. Not all of those ingredients were present everywhere all the time. During the Roman Empire or in Renaissance Germany, sure. But I'd be surprised if that was true for, say, a Carolingian sword/armour smith who was only ever going to sell his wares to a minor local lord and his retinue.
Really appreciate how you don't romanticise old craftsmen but also show respect and understanding for the work they did, they were people just like us and they weren't stupid, they just had their own priorities and needs.
I spend a lot of time working in the bush (not just strolling, doing actual work), and I always have a big knife on my side (blade about 16"). When I watch those videos about how medieval people used to do stuff, a lot of it is still applicable for when you do actual physical labour in difficult contexts. Having your knife tightly bound to your hip is very annoying. It gets caught on everything, and then you get caught. If you let it hang loosely, it will get caught on stuff but will free itself as you move.
I like a drop leg style bound above my knee, it keeps it tight to the thigh, doesn't get caught on shit, doesn't require me to baby sit or hold it like thongs do. and lets me move around without it poking me.
@@Dies1r4e That's what I was doing at first, but over time, I went back to a more loose attachment, and I'm better for it. It probably depends on the type of work you're doing.
Naval swords have had a little folding clip on them to retain the blade in the scabbard since the 1700s, even if it ends up upside down. Also means the scabbard can be relatively loose. Wonder if there were any such features in the mediaeval times?
Its not medieval, but I have an Iranian shamshir circa 1600 with an original scabbard which is extremely tight - even accounting for shrinkage and warp over time, it is fitted VERY well despite the deep curve of the sword. Other swords I have are quite loosely fitted despite being "good" quality scabbards made specifically for that sword - such as one of my Kilic. It varies, quite a lot, even for the recent stuff.
If I was on the medieval battlefield I reckon I’d know if the sword was a bit stiff in the scabbard especially if it’d been raining. I’d be checking it’s loose-ness right up to when the violence kicked off. But I bet the samurai were more concerned with the ‘quick draw ‘ speed what with their Iaido and their social rules. I was wondering if they had similar drawing protocol in renaissance Italy?
I love these little bits of experimental archaeology - it's always interesting. Never giving us absolute answers, but always adding valuable data points! On this particular point, I can honestly imagine guys arguing about things like this in the pub. One walks in with his new dagger and starts showing off how tightly it fits in his new sheath; and his friend responds by going on about how, "after my da' came back from fighting those bastards over the border, he always said blah blahblah blah blahblahblah...."
Firstly - you just stole my line! I have just written a presentation the AvA2 crew is giving at the Chalke Valley History Festival this year where I say "talking about archery descends to little more than two bloke is a pub, both absolutely stating they are right. Clearly a mind reader. Secondly, my absolute hate is history docs saying "I know this and this so therefore this". Rarely should there ever be a therefore and I try to stick to that idea
@@tods_workshop Haha I've clearly learnt from the best! The more I learn the more I appreciate the subtleties, and that often, two sides of an argument can often be at least somewhat true. That's probably *one* of the biggest lessons I've taken from history to be honest, and for the most part, I have the likes of you, Matt Easton, Toby Capwell and probably Skallagrim to thank for that!
@@tods_workshop I think it shouldnt to lose why daggers and Swords are side arms if you running with a pole arm in youre hands you likely cant hold youre dagger or sword sheeth or scabard !
@@tods_workshop You can always go "therefore, my _hypothesis is_ blahblahblah, but without a time machine we simply cannot know for sure unless we find definitive evidence." But yeah, it's better to say "this is what we think was most likely the case" rather than "this is what we know for sure" unless we have, like, the diary of someone talking about it in minute and exacting detail.
My grandfather before getting drafted he was advised by his war veteran father " never let your knife bloody in the scabbard and your revolver get wet in the holster" He found out why the hard way when he tried to remove his revolver from the holster and the gun was just refusing to unstuck He really got lucky, because the opponent just started uncontrollably laughing finding it very amusing and told him just to walk away from them 😏
@@murmenaattori6 it was late 1949 the last days of the Greek civil war, those encounters was very common, soldiers on both sides was just to tired to keep killing each other And had develop a " Live and let live" mentality My grandfather was given a sniper rifle just to bring to his commanding officer game both to eat and sell That was his only time he found himself face to face with the rebels The rebel that told him to walk the other way was like a teenager or something and just trying to flee the country, he wouldn't had kill him if he didn't have to 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Meh, not all of grandfathers war stories are always true. Still sounds like "And then everyone stood up and started clapping...'' to me.
I never considered it before, but it makes sense that multiple craftsmen would be making the various components of swords and knives. It was a cottage industry much as was found throughout the world for literal ages. Also, bravo to Tod for sacrificing his personal comfort for research and for our entertainment. Thank you!
We had it here in Solingen as well until quite recently, about the1950s actually. Each part of the city had it's own industry and the knives were handed from one craftsmen to the others by their women who's job it usually was to get the knives around to the next cottage. That also is why we have a multitude of different words for people who did different thing on the knives, like Schlieper for the one who ground the knives, Reider for the one who mounted handles to the blades and so on.
@@trulsdirio That's really interesting. I looked up the English translations of those words and at first, they did not make sense, but thinking about them, yes, they do. Schlieper translates to slipper, and that is exactly what you would do to sharpen a blade. Slip a stone or file along the edge until it is sharp. Reider took me a second because in English it means riders. A handle rides the tang, though, so that makes sense too. Thank you! I love learning that sort of thing.
@@StutleyConstable tose are also really regional terms, what was called a Schlieper here would usually be a Schleifer in the rest of Germany for example. You probably won't find terms like Reider, Pließter (the one who polished blades) and so on even in a German dictionary.
@@StutleyConstable Yeah, Solingens native language, technically it is a language, is Limburgish. This language sits between Dutch and German. Thats why it is a bit closer to English than Standard German is to English.
You can actually see it perfectly in any modern factory. There are different machines making each part of an item and then other machines that assemble all the pieces together. We've just replaced humans with machines.
For everyone musing on pre-soaking of leather scabbards, the leather is almost always pre-wetted during manufacture, simply because you need the leather to stretch a little as you stitch it so it has a tight fit over the wooden core. The tightening issues arent just about the leather on a scabbard, but rather how the wood core swells when wet and presses on the blade. So soaking a newly made scabbard again after its finished would probably be a bit redundant, since it wont keep the wood from swelling as humidity changes
Tod: sir, A looser fitting scabbard is the way to go. But a proper footbridge wight work too. Enjoyed the video thanks. I learn much from all your videos. Keep them coming. Thanks!
BTW this is all just hypothesis based on how things usually seem to go: Tod's description of the cutler buying parts and assembling them to sell the whole piece makes a lot of sense for a reason I don't see people mentioning: if you don't have a factory where all this is done in-house, each craftsman needs to make his stuff and sell it for money. He can't hand everything over to a cutler and wait for the cutler to sell pieces and reimburse him for his crossguard or whatever. And no customer wants to buy all the pieces and then mangle things putting them together. So the cutler has to exist, and he has to have either a strong professional relationship with his suppliers or the money to buy all his materials outright. Or some combination. Which means not every one of the individual craftsmen could afford to BE the cutler; just because you can make sheaths doesn't mean you have the trusted connections and capital that the cutler does. And it also means customers can just come to one shop and buy the thing, which means all the component craftsmen can work out of their homes instead of having to maintain anything like a storefront or blanket full of their wares in a market area. That storefront is more expensive to maintain, and cuts into profits. It does mean that the cutler is presumably the more powerful and wealthier of the whole group. If a component craftsman wanted to raise his price, and his cutler didn't accept, he could try to find another cutler. But now he's on the lookout and competing with that cutler's current supplier on price, so he probably doesn't get the increase he's looking for anyway. And also just burned a bridge in a small community. Meanwhile the cutler is a harder-to-achieve position and there are more component craftsmen out there than cutlers, so he has his pick of them. He probably has multiple craftsmen in each category supplying him. So even if informally and in an unspoken way, he has more influence over their price to him than they do. But of course doesn't want to push that relationship too hard, because if they REALLY wanted to they could probably figure out a way to cut him out of the process by promoting one of their own and just working together on credit or as a partnership.
Exactly, it's just like going to someone like Track of the Wolf, and buying a Bowie knife kit. They send you the blade and all of the other bits to finish it. When you do that makes you, at that point, the cutler.
I really respect your empirical approach to history! Make no assumptions, do things that historical peoples did, learn from it. Wonderful stuff, thank you.
I will throw some counterarguments to the idea of loose scabbards, especially in case of daggers. So I do HEMA longsword sparring, almost always with a dagger. I've had a couple mounting systems during my years of HEMA, after a while I've started trying out historical options. Whenever I was using a loose scabbard and any kind of loose thong system I pretty often lost my dagger during the fight. The solution was usually to either use a more secure mounting system (like thongs looped over in front of the scabbard - this holds the dagger pretty securely, it creates a loop for a belt almost like on modern scabbards) or to use a tighter scabbard. So this could indicate that even historically they would do either loose scabbard or loose mounting, but not both - as much as I can take the argument that running or doing physical activities with a "fully loose" dagger isn't a problem, I can't believe anyone would ever stick to that kind of a carrying method after learning from experience that they are quite likely to loose a dagger during a fight. The other point I would make is that I've learned that people often try to take my own dagger and use it against me. When the scabbard is tight I can usually pull it out rather fast and easily if I do it the right way - pulling with a decisive upward motion. The correct angle is key here - in case of a tighter scabbard my opponents usually couldn't take my own dagger, because their pulling angle in any reasonable fighting scenario was limited, so they oculdn't execute the straight up motion that and an owner of a weapon can. Overall I would argue that tight dagger scabbards/sheaths were probably a thing, was it a majority? Im not going to make any assumptions here, but based on my fighting experience with a longsword and dagger I would rather have a tighter scabbard. Now there are two caveats here: - the dagger I use is a sparring blunt blade and it isn't balanced like a real dagger, its heavier toward the handle, this can impact how likely it is that the dagger falls out of a scabbard - I'm completely ignoring the moisture/wheather argument here which could play a bigger part in choosing the carry method than I think.
I think the importance of being able to retrieve any blade one-handed is often under-appreciated, if not completely overlooked... whether it's carried for self-defense or as a tool. I have a lot of knives (pocket and fixed blade) and the ones I carry are almost always ones I can pull out and start using with one hand. It's just frustrating having to put something down or stop what you're doing to fumble around with a folding knife that requires both hands or pull a blade from a sheath that's too tight...
"For the sake of science ..." Thank you, Sir, for your noble sacrifice and thank you for your excellent educational presentations. You are rapidly becoming one of my favorites.
Very interesting. Given that you prove the change and binding is so immediate and obvious, it would have to follow that ALL of the campaigning men would be well aware of the issue. They probably thought close fitting scabbards were a stupid idea that would last just as long as it didn't rain.
I got taught leather working by a saddler, or well two because it was a couple that taught me, and one was focused on making saddles while the other on making the tac-wear (like bridles ect.). It was super interesting how while they officially have the same "work" they do really different things, and also taught differently. They did point out that while they would prefer to work with a local blacksmith for the metal fittings, it wasn't really profitable in current day and age for them.
Great content as always Tod, I use a bit of Bees Wax on the first inch of the inside of my own personal bush crafting Knife sheaths so it holds the blade a bit but is still an easy draw when i need to use them, adds a little waterproofing too I guess
3:52 this happen in modern day too but mostly with hammers on construction sites. You can walk with the hammer but going down the stairs or moving faster, the hand goes to the hammer automatically. There may be other stuff that hand goes to too like a knife. I have even worn a sledgehammer like a hammer and that really needed stabilization with a hand but it left other hand free for other stuff and carrying it in hand would have been less convenient.
So, idea, what if medieval scabbards were made loose like that on purpose for WHEN they get wet so that they would fit properly when they do? What if you were expected to grab a sheath that kinda fit pretty good and were expected to water treat it so that it would then tighten up slightly and mold itself around the blade some? What if they pre water treated the scabbards before selling them so that it wouldn't get too tight?
Sword scabbards were wood cored with a leather wrap. Wood swells when it's wet, and leather shrinks after it's been wet and subsequently dries. So if the air is humid or it gets wet, the wood will absorb more moisture, and it will swell - this is what makes it tight. Once the wood dries though, wood fibers will release some of the moisture back into the air and it can shrink back down. Whereas, if it was purely a leather sheath, the leather will not return to it's original size.
@@WillyShakes I think (at least I have done it) its reasonably common practise to soak leather before you use it to wrap something (then stretch it around) and sew it up. Then when it dries its a tight fit. Once wet the timber and leather would both swell. When they dry out again the leather should still be a tight fit.
I know of at least one way of making knife sheaths that involves wetting the leather. Pukko knives have a sheath that goes up around the handle as well. Wood around the blade, then wrapped in leather that covers the wood and partly up where the handle will be. The leather is then wetted and moulded with the knife in the sheath.
Neat video. I do leatherwork. You did what is today known as wetforming. It's having a hard time drawing from the sheathe because the leather has molded to the fuller of the blade. Its narrowing angle toward the tip of the blade doesn't allow the blade to come out properly because the mold doesn't allow adequate space for it to do so. This causes the entire sheathe to need to expand when the blade is drawn, and leather isn't particularly stretchy. I surmise that leather sheathes were either well oiled, well waxed, or some combination thereof to prevent wet forming of leather sheathes and to repel water. An oiled sheathe would have been quite flexible, which may not have been the best treatment for sheathes if you wanted a fast draw, but it would keep the blade well oiled on a journey from point A to point B. I wager that beeswaxed sheathes were preferred because wax repels water and stiffens leather. Or, waxed on the outside and oiled on the inside would have been an excellent treatment method. That is, of course, considering that the leather received any treatment at all. I'm not an expert on medieval gear, so I'm telling you how I would treat a leather sheath if I were to make one with the goal of repelling water and fast draw.
I think that last few seconds shows that it was probably likely that swords and knives went through multiple sheaths/scabbards. You wouldn't want to carry that sword in that sheath, so get another one. Maybe on a knife it gets wet and tight and even your draw it, the leather is cut. Now you get a new one...
Brilliant video. I think we often forgot what using and wearing a sword or dagger day in and day out really means. For allot of us collectors in the modern world our pieces probably spend 99% of the time leaning against a wall or on a display stand.
Tod, you're an actual damn treasure. I'm making a roleplaying system as a passion project and the perspective you bring and tests you do have made me consider aspects I couldn't have thought of otherwise.
I think it bares mentioning that the maker and the user often live in vastly different climates in this global era, not to mention seasonal variation in humidity. I live in a hot dry climate, my buyer may live in the tropics or a cold snowy climate. I may make a scabbard in an Australia summer and two weeks later it's in a new York winter. Definitely want some Lee way in the fit.
Awesome video! On one point though, I believe theres a decent bit of evidence for textile or parchment liners on many medieval sword scabbards. At least from my reading in Covering the Blade by Goubitz, there are lots of imprints of whip-stitches along the mouths of scabbards, implying the presence of a liner that was attached there. If I'm not mistaken the still existing scabbard for the sword of saint maurice is one such example among many other fragmentary finds.
As a tip from the pistol-holster side of things, soak your leather in your hide glue to waterproof and harden it and mold it to the blade. If it's really hard and doesn't flex, then you can fit it tightly enough at the outset that you don't have to worry about it falling out, but then if you think you might need it just give it a little push with the thumb of your left hand to loosen it up a bit, and the tapers of the blade will make the rest of it super easy from there. And waterproofing the leather and wood you make the scabbard from can also help avoid rusting the blade. Leather can be pretty mean about absorbing water from the air and doing noxious things to your metal.
That is exactly one of the scenes i love from Gladiator ... Maximus is able to kill the Praetorian because he couldn't draw his sword due to frost sticking the blade to the scabbard. Genius.
@@marcpeterson1092 There fixed it for you my little flower ... your eyes hurt ? Just tell me that you understood the message in both ways. English is not my first language.
I very much enjoy the way you bring practical reality into our understanding of Middle Ages living and debunk our preconceived notions of how they preferred their kit! Always a pleasure to watch, thanks Todd Cutler! 😀
Here in Germany I've learned from a swordsmith that they often lined their scabbards with oiled fur with the grain facing downwards. This way the blade was kept nice and greasy, had a bit of wiggle room and the grain of the fur (goat mostly) had some grip to keep the sword in place. What's your opinion about that?
Very well done. I make my own scabbards & i tend to like them pressure fit so they dont fall out but i did run into this problem. It doesnt rain here much but when it does or if I get wet it does cause them to bind. So i discovered it is helpful to rig something to tje scabbard for your thumb to push on.
my basement (and clean shop area) can be humid. If I forget to run a de-humidifier, swords I am working on often stick in the scabbards I am making for them. I have to dehumidify until it shrinks enough to remove it. Then, heat the blade a little and put it into the wooden scabbard. It will shrink the wood that it touches some and then it will fit right forever. I have wanted to ship before, and had a basement leak, and had the sword stuck the day I planned to ship. That's how I learned this weird trick to salvage a scabbard without having to scrape it full-length potentially. Thanks for the video. It sort of resonated with my experiences making all-wood scabbards for custom swords.
Since leather shrinks and hardens after being soaked, especially with hot water, it may give us a hint of how they fitted scabbards to the individual blades and how they got away with using only one layer of leather.
I like the channel and the effort Tod shows, top notch. Also I thought about scabbards and came to one very simple conclusion, unlike in this piece, the inside was treated to repel water. This goes for wood and leather. And they knew about the problem so they wouldn't ignore it totally and apply protection inside and out. There are several ways of doing so, think of boiled linseed oil, varnish or tar like the boatbuilders did for centuries. The archeologists wouldn't necessarily find the fact if they don't look for it specifically. Tar in a wooden splinter is nearly impossible to recognize you need to run a test for it to do so. The high status ones may be lacquered not only for the display of wealth or style but also for practical reasons.
One thing came to my mind is that force moving towards enemy can throw multiple of these in volleys while advancing, 1 per 20-30 meters of closing in, so there might be not time to pick them up as there's more incoming. We are also bit used to seeing volleys but what if there's constant harass coming at you. Also they can be useful for a infantry to have against bigger targets like cavalry formation, to possibly injure/frighten the mounts, riders aren't going to pick them up. It's a handy piece to have, throwing it from behind the battlements fast, and get back to cover. Things might haven't been that easy to pick up in a big crowd of soldiers moving about, trampling the one's that landed on the ground, while the guy next to you is screaming due to having one stuck in his leg, arm, whatever. Also, if you get a cramp or minor muscle injury from the throw, then you could fall back to the rear maybe to get some respite, I bet they'd rotate the injured anyway in any circumstance with fresh troops, so they could fight a while later in long battles.
*So* many good points... which it's fun to see someone very knowledgeable put forward when, ironically, I've been trying to say this to fellow modern collectors for 20, 30 years or more. (And so very refreshing to hear someone knowledgeable putting forward that "*I* don't like it, but.." and distinguish between preference--and necessity.)
A delightfully nuanced exploration of this whole subject. I really like the whole theme of 'just because we like it like that today, doesnt mean it was fit for purpose under medieval use.'
Reading the comments brought something to my mind when I was a conscript: even rifles slings are set differently depending on the situation. On a parade, they are fit tightly, so they look good and you can fling the rifle around pompously. In a practice they sling is loose, so you can actually keep it hanging and still aim with the gun. Can't do that with parade-tight sling. So somewhat loose scabbard makes sense when your life depends on your sidearm being able to be drawn as fast as possible if you lose your main weapon. But if it's your main weapon, it could be a tad tighter fit, as you have more time to wrestle with it before your unit closes with the enemy.
Am the same my seax is a bit loose and its fell out a few times. So i ended up tying a bit of string to keep it in until i got a friend to glue a leather band inside the scabbard.
Swords were backup weapons in battle. If you need it, you need it RIGHT NOW. And I feel like a soldier after months on campaign probably went weeks without "testing" drawing his sword (just assuming, given how soldiers in all times and places tend to treat their kit). In that context, having it a little extra loose to make sure makes some sense. Even with modern swords and "well-fitted" scabbards, they loosen over time so you really can't trust the sword not to slip out. If you're going to live with it on your hip maybe you already have to assume it can slip out anyways, in which case there's literally no downside to making sure you can draw it at need.
I wonder what effect a woolen lining would have. Would the wool hold onto humidity and moisture and rust the blade faster, or would the natural lanolin act as a rust preventative?
Interestingly, I recently tightened the sheath of a left hand dagger bought from you. I used a small piece of deer hide, glued it in exactly as you described. I also make my own sword scabbards. I have a particular method that isn’t historical but it works. I always line the inside with fur, use about 2mm wood (sometimes two layers of edge banding adhered together), wrap that with linen (with rabbit skin glue), leather (hand-stitched tight while wet, no adhesive). They usually take about a month to settle in but they’re always perfectly snug at the end. The swords won’t fall out, but drawing is smooth and effortless. The inner fur lining might not have been used in the past, but it helps keep the blade clean and oiled, allowing me to store the swords in their scabbards for long stretches without worry. Now I’m going to have to submerge one to test it.
I wouldn't be so positive on the method not being historical. Before I made my first scabbard, I did a lot of research on the topic of scabbard making and came also up with lining the inside with fur (shaved goat fur - with the stroke towards the point of the sword). I believe it was a more ancient way of building scabbards (dark ages/early middleages).
@@mitcharcher7528 I still wonder why they abandoned that way of building a scabbard. While those are more "chunky" due to the multiple layering of materials, they also work very well - even under damp conditions. Due to some oversight, I've let a sword sit about half a year during fall and winter in a scabbard on my terrace and when I tried to pull the sword, it came loose pretty easy and didn't have any mayor corrosion damage to the blade (the guard and pommel had quite some rust).
As Adam Smith commented in Wealth of Nations when describing how pins were made in a pin factory with each worker having one single simple job. I wonder if some smaller towns would have so many specialties though and wouldn’t perhaps just have one smith and another person that makes handles and assembles knives/tools. They could then either have a family member or worker who makes the fairly low quality scabbard/sheath.
On the rare occasions I have made knife sheaths I like to make a thin wooden sheath to wrap the leather around, it prevents the leather sheath from getting cut up.
I'm not sure if it was you (Tod) or from another channel. Talking about oiling a weapon (Sword) to: ¹Protect against water, rust. ²Provides a more smooth and deeper cut. Oiling up the sword, might also wear off the friction/suction of the wet scabbard. And also treat the leather scabbard. Multiple functions 😁
Have now made over a dozen dagger and sword scabbards for myself and mates. Ive found that they start quite tight (usually fine until the last inch or so of stitching). But a bit of oil and working in and out of the scabbard and they work really well. But saying that I haven't soaked them. Interesting video.
I had the same issues with making a scabbard for my Albion bastard sword. I steamed and formed the poplar around the blade, and covered it with linen using rabbit skin glue. At first, it was snug, but would "lock" in at the last fraction of an inch. Later, during the hot, dry summer, it loosened up. Now it is ready to fall out, but it still tightens noticeably with any ambient humidity. Being an American, I have the same issues with holsters for my various handguns. Snug fit and secure hold, or quick draw? Fortunately, modern technology provides me with a variety of different options.
Even without getting into “retention” type examples, modern kydex holsters often have protrusions or an extended sideguard on the side closer to the body so you can push against them with your thumb as part of drawing to ensure the contents leave cleanly. I have **A** kydex knife sheath with one, and it works well enough. I wonder if such a thing could be done for a sword or knife with period materials.
Right, or an indent in the scabbard that corresponds to a bump protruding from the blade, so it sets the tension needed to draw but in a highly predictable way; the scabbard could be otherwise quite loose, and thus not worry about unpredictability due to friction.
I know very well that a sheath can be too tight. Back in the 90s I accidentally left a very sharp long bladed spear with a fairly tight leather sheath on it out on the rain overnight. The sheath was very tight after that and removing it resulted in a trip to the emergency room to get 8 stitches in my thumb.
Here in the US consider a tight draw like you were a professional gun fighter in the old west. Loose is fast, tight is dead. It really all comes down to how fast do you anticipate needing to access your weapons or tools. If you're climbing a cliff you want your stuff secured to your person extremely well so as to not lose it. If you are expecting a fight you want it loose and rattling in your scabbard. Function fits form just as form fits function. Aka situational dependent case by case.
Tod! You The Man! Love ya work, asking the question, testing the question and generating more questions. So were scabbards/sheaths considered a ‘disposable’ (for some strange definition of disposable, a fighting season, a year, so many river crossings, or it’s just too bloody tight) item? And was the material (poplar or birch) valuable enough that after it has swollen, we let it dry (in a box near the cooking hearth) for “some time” and it’s back to ok? Same question for a completed scabbard: it gets wet, it becomes unusable, is it worth “carefully drying out” or just chuck it in the bin & get a new one? You mentioned scabbards with a small amount of wool - greasy (water repellant) wool? Some sort of self lubricating effect? Would this have been any use on voyages of Scandinavian tourists or similar? I dare say we simply don’t know…but you put a lot of fun into the asking of the pragmatic questions 😀 keep up the terrific work, Hi from Oz 🇦🇺 Oh, you caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about, You caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about, You caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about, But they MUST NOT be too tight!
Regarding the end there- That scabbard will loosen back up though in a bit of time and with some use. Though not as nice as yours I do make scabbards too- even made a couple for my Albion Knight- one with fittings I bought from you- Mine are usually pretty snug when new made but after just a bit of break in they loosen up some. My end goal is a scabbard that when held upside down holds the sword but when lightly shaken easily releases. That seems to be my sweet spot So you have to consider the new fit as opposed to the broken in fit too
Excellent video. I have to admit I have never given any thought to the hows and whys of sword and scabbard making in the medieval days. Do you thinking oiling the blade with grease or oil would have helped at all?
Thanks for doing so many of these types of videos! You are showing me exactly what I want to know, how these weapons and armors perform in the real world. I've often wondered how practical a group of archers would be when trouping about the english countryside in the rain, do crossbows require less care and attention? And again wondering about the armor such as chain links when they get super rusty, how would a man-at-arms clean each individual link? Would the rusty armor perform differently or cause mobility problems?
The way I've heard (with no confirmation whatsoever) is that indeed, rusty chain links can bind as well as weaken, thus presumably hampering movement as well as effectiveness Again with no confirmation I heard that a typical way to clean mail is stick it in a barrel with some sand & roll it around for an hour or 2; the fine cleaning/oiling comes afterwards if necessary
Hi Tod, another great video. I've been a fan of the channel for quite a while now and so have a lot of my friends. Recently we have been discussing a really cool experiment/video idea we'd love to see you try out. Slings vs armor. Seeing what a skilled slinger could do to various armor types with the various ammunition types that were historically used. There's an exceptionally skilled slinger who has a small TH-cam channel called "Archaic arms". He also lives in England and has said he would love to volunteer his skills for testing if you're interested. Seeing even a short film with you guys would be like a dream come true for us all. If it sounds like a cool idea to you please don't hesitate to contact him or myself to organize it.
I made a scabbard for a sword I had,, and what I did was make it from two thin pieces of wood that I carved out a slot for the sword in, and then cladding the inside of the scabbard with fur and glued the pieces together..Finally the outside was covered in leather.. The fur inside both held the sword in, and when you put your lightly oiled sword in it it never rusted...
A classic mud test would be interesting, simulating falling into mud / dropping the sword into mud while sheathed. Would a tight fit / loose fit produce different results.
I wonder if when there was "make to pattern" situation, the various craftsmen could have been given either just the part they were to match, or a more complete version. So in that case they'd be able to make the various pieces to match much closer to the other parts, like the blade the scabbard is meant to match could be available to check the fit on.
I love how Tod could have just dunked the sword under water, but no, he dunked himself in at the same time. Does it make the experiment any more valid? Not really, but I can't help but admire the dedication.
When he reached "THAT depth" and commented on how cold the water was, I had sympathy retraction.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Visions of summer in the sea off the cornish coast sprang to mind. :)
Hey no mini icebergs it must be summer right? :)
Lol, he brings new meaning to the concept of immersing one's self in one's research.
... it's like a 5 year old playing around... but doing experimental archeology. And loving every second of it 😊
@@WhiteDieselShed And the waters off Cornwall are warm when compared with everywhere else in the UK.
It actually makes a lot of sense for knives and swords to be made by multiple people in medieval times. If you are going to outfit an army, then instead of a single person makeing one entire sword maybe every two days, it would be faster for someone to be churning out blades all day while another person churns out handles and another scabbards, all to be assembled by another person elsewhere. It's kinda like an assembly line.
Isn't how things for military use are made even today? One company produce belts, an other holsters, an other bayonets ect
Absolutely! Way easier for someone to get good at making one thing quickly than to learn to do ten different things quickly. It's also the case that there were places that were hubs for certain kinds of goods, like Solingen for blades. It was common (not just in the medieval period) for blades to be made in one place, and then made into functional swords/knives elsewhere. So you could have one smith hammering out several blades in a day or two, and then after a few months those blades could be in four different countries fitted to guards and pommels that fit the regional tastes.
To take that even further I can think of examples of African swords that Europeans stumbled across in the 1900's that had straight double edged blades (exactly like the stereotypical medieval european sword) fitted to locally made African guard, grip, and pommel. If I remember rightly those blades were actually made in parts of Germany in like the 1700's or 1800's (after Europeans had moved away from that style of blade) specifically for the African export market. Sorry for the essay lol.
And if it resembles modern day civilian and military contracting, the products are going to be made by the lowest bidder who meets the minimum specifications.
That’s one of the reasons armorers in Italy and Germany could crank out an entire harness in a couple of days.
It makes sense, if conditions for mass production are met. It's only worthwhile (or even possible) to break down production into lots of small steps each carried out by someone with a very narrow specialisation when you are able to: secure lots of capital to bring together enough people in the same workshop (or have a sufficiently mature market for a reliable supply chain up and down stream), and have access to a sufficiently large customer base so that there's enough demand for all your wares. Not all of those ingredients were present everywhere all the time. During the Roman Empire or in Renaissance Germany, sure. But I'd be surprised if that was true for, say, a Carolingian sword/armour smith who was only ever going to sell his wares to a minor local lord and his retinue.
Really appreciate how you don't romanticise old craftsmen but also show respect and understanding for the work they did, they were people just like us and they weren't stupid, they just had their own priorities and needs.
I spend a lot of time working in the bush (not just strolling, doing actual work), and I always have a big knife on my side (blade about 16"). When I watch those videos about how medieval people used to do stuff, a lot of it is still applicable for when you do actual physical labour in difficult contexts. Having your knife tightly bound to your hip is very annoying. It gets caught on everything, and then you get caught. If you let it hang loosely, it will get caught on stuff but will free itself as you move.
I didn't think of that... Yeah, walking in forests was more common back then...
@@Ranstone well forests were much more managed in the middle ages because they were constantly being used for all sorts of things.
I like a drop leg style bound above my knee, it keeps it tight to the thigh, doesn't get caught on shit, doesn't require me to baby sit or hold it like thongs do. and lets me move around without it poking me.
@@Dies1r4e That's what I was doing at first, but over time, I went back to a more loose attachment, and I'm better for it. It probably depends on the type of work you're doing.
Probably the kind of situation that retractable 'Wolverine' style blades would be amazing. 😁
Naval swords have had a little folding clip on them to retain the blade in the scabbard since the 1700s, even if it ends up upside down. Also means the scabbard can be relatively loose. Wonder if there were any such features in the mediaeval times?
thats makes so much sense
Peace loops. Hurswitc has proof of them in the Viking age. They are tied around the handle or slipped over the cross guard
Probably, but they just didn't survive the years and thus we don't know about them.
Its not medieval, but I have an Iranian shamshir circa 1600 with an original scabbard which is extremely tight - even accounting for shrinkage and warp over time, it is fitted VERY well despite the deep curve of the sword. Other swords I have are quite loosely fitted despite being "good" quality scabbards made specifically for that sword - such as one of my Kilic. It varies, quite a lot, even for the recent stuff.
Was the scabbard recently in the pool?
@@thcdreams654 Shockingly, no
Wonder if it has to do with the different environment of Iran. Dryer climate means less worry about the scabbard getting wet.
If I was on the medieval battlefield I reckon I’d know if the sword was a bit stiff in the scabbard especially if it’d been raining.
I’d be checking it’s loose-ness right up to when the violence kicked off.
But I bet the samurai were more concerned with the ‘quick draw ‘ speed what with their Iaido and their social rules.
I was wondering if they had similar drawing protocol in renaissance Italy?
If there's a lot of variation the nice fit might be by accident.
I love these little bits of experimental archaeology - it's always interesting. Never giving us absolute answers, but always adding valuable data points! On this particular point, I can honestly imagine guys arguing about things like this in the pub. One walks in with his new dagger and starts showing off how tightly it fits in his new sheath; and his friend responds by going on about how, "after my da' came back from fighting those bastards over the border, he always said blah blahblah blah blahblahblah...."
Firstly - you just stole my line! I have just written a presentation the AvA2 crew is giving at the Chalke Valley History Festival this year where I say "talking about archery descends to little more than two bloke is a pub, both absolutely stating they are right. Clearly a mind reader. Secondly, my absolute hate is history docs saying "I know this and this so therefore this". Rarely should there ever be a therefore and I try to stick to that idea
@@tods_workshop Haha I've clearly learnt from the best! The more I learn the more I appreciate the subtleties, and that often, two sides of an argument can often be at least somewhat true. That's probably *one* of the biggest lessons I've taken from history to be honest, and for the most part, I have the likes of you, Matt Easton, Toby Capwell and probably Skallagrim to thank for that!
@@tods_workshop I think it shouldnt to lose why daggers and Swords are side arms if you running with a pole arm in youre hands you likely cant hold youre dagger or sword sheeth or scabard !
@@tods_workshop You can always go "therefore, my _hypothesis is_ blahblahblah, but without a time machine we simply cannot know for sure unless we find definitive evidence." But yeah, it's better to say "this is what we think was most likely the case" rather than "this is what we know for sure" unless we have, like, the diary of someone talking about it in minute and exacting detail.
My grandfather before getting drafted he was advised by his war veteran father " never let your knife bloody in the scabbard and your revolver get wet in the holster"
He found out why the hard way when he tried to remove his revolver from the holster and the gun was just refusing to unstuck
He really got lucky, because the opponent just started uncontrollably laughing finding it very amusing and told him just to walk away from them 😏
And then everyone stood up and started clapping...
@@murmenaattori6 it was late 1949 the last days of the Greek civil war, those encounters was very common, soldiers on both sides was just to tired to keep killing each other
And had develop a " Live and let live" mentality
My grandfather was given a sniper rifle just to bring to his commanding officer game both to eat and sell
That was his only time he found himself face to face with the rebels
The rebel that told him to walk the other way was like a teenager or something and just trying to flee the country, he wouldn't had kill him if he didn't have to 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous I actually believe you know, sorry and thanks. Makes sense in a civil war I suppose.
@@murmenaattori6 no worries 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Meh, not all of grandfathers war stories are always true.
Still sounds like "And then everyone stood up and started clapping...'' to me.
I never considered it before, but it makes sense that multiple craftsmen would be making the various components of swords and knives. It was a cottage industry much as was found throughout the world for literal ages.
Also, bravo to Tod for sacrificing his personal comfort for research and for our entertainment. Thank you!
We had it here in Solingen as well until quite recently, about the1950s actually. Each part of the city had it's own industry and the knives were handed from one craftsmen to the others by their women who's job it usually was to get the knives around to the next cottage. That also is why we have a multitude of different words for people who did different thing on the knives, like Schlieper for the one who ground the knives, Reider for the one who mounted handles to the blades and so on.
@@trulsdirio That's really interesting. I looked up the English translations of those words and at first, they did not make sense, but thinking about them, yes, they do. Schlieper translates to slipper, and that is exactly what you would do to sharpen a blade. Slip a stone or file along the edge until it is sharp. Reider took me a second because in English it means riders. A handle rides the tang, though, so that makes sense too. Thank you! I love learning that sort of thing.
@@StutleyConstable tose are also really regional terms, what was called a Schlieper here would usually be a Schleifer in the rest of Germany for example. You probably won't find terms like Reider, Pließter (the one who polished blades) and so on even in a German dictionary.
@@StutleyConstable Yeah, Solingens native language, technically it is a language, is Limburgish. This language sits between Dutch and German. Thats why it is a bit closer to English than Standard German is to English.
You can actually see it perfectly in any modern factory. There are different machines making each part of an item and then other machines that assemble all the pieces together. We've just replaced humans with machines.
You heard it here, boyos. If it is too tight when it gets wet, it becomes a two hand operation.
Figured that out in high school 😂
No you didn't
Fact of life
@@VinceW187 I sure did, i tried making knife sheaths and made more than a few way too grippy 😕
For everyone musing on pre-soaking of leather scabbards, the leather is almost always pre-wetted during manufacture, simply because you need the leather to stretch a little as you stitch it so it has a tight fit over the wooden core. The tightening issues arent just about the leather on a scabbard, but rather how the wood core swells when wet and presses on the blade. So soaking a newly made scabbard again after its finished would probably be a bit redundant, since it wont keep the wood from swelling as humidity changes
The scabbards in this video dont have wooden cores
Tod: sir, A looser fitting scabbard is the way to go. But a proper footbridge wight work too. Enjoyed the video thanks. I learn much from all your videos. Keep them coming. Thanks!
BTW this is all just hypothesis based on how things usually seem to go:
Tod's description of the cutler buying parts and assembling them to sell the whole piece makes a lot of sense for a reason I don't see people mentioning: if you don't have a factory where all this is done in-house, each craftsman needs to make his stuff and sell it for money. He can't hand everything over to a cutler and wait for the cutler to sell pieces and reimburse him for his crossguard or whatever. And no customer wants to buy all the pieces and then mangle things putting them together. So the cutler has to exist, and he has to have either a strong professional relationship with his suppliers or the money to buy all his materials outright. Or some combination. Which means not every one of the individual craftsmen could afford to BE the cutler; just because you can make sheaths doesn't mean you have the trusted connections and capital that the cutler does. And it also means customers can just come to one shop and buy the thing, which means all the component craftsmen can work out of their homes instead of having to maintain anything like a storefront or blanket full of their wares in a market area. That storefront is more expensive to maintain, and cuts into profits.
It does mean that the cutler is presumably the more powerful and wealthier of the whole group. If a component craftsman wanted to raise his price, and his cutler didn't accept, he could try to find another cutler. But now he's on the lookout and competing with that cutler's current supplier on price, so he probably doesn't get the increase he's looking for anyway. And also just burned a bridge in a small community. Meanwhile the cutler is a harder-to-achieve position and there are more component craftsmen out there than cutlers, so he has his pick of them. He probably has multiple craftsmen in each category supplying him. So even if informally and in an unspoken way, he has more influence over their price to him than they do. But of course doesn't want to push that relationship too hard, because if they REALLY wanted to they could probably figure out a way to cut him out of the process by promoting one of their own and just working together on credit or as a partnership.
Exactly, it's just like going to someone like Track of the Wolf, and buying a Bowie knife kit. They send you the blade and all of the other bits to finish it. When you do that makes you, at that point, the cutler.
I really respect your empirical approach to history! Make no assumptions, do things that historical peoples did, learn from it. Wonderful stuff, thank you.
I will throw some counterarguments to the idea of loose scabbards, especially in case of daggers. So I do HEMA longsword sparring, almost always with a dagger. I've had a couple mounting systems during my years of HEMA, after a while I've started trying out historical options. Whenever I was using a loose scabbard and any kind of loose thong system I pretty often lost my dagger during the fight. The solution was usually to either use a more secure mounting system (like thongs looped over in front of the scabbard - this holds the dagger pretty securely, it creates a loop for a belt almost like on modern scabbards) or to use a tighter scabbard. So this could indicate that even historically they would do either loose scabbard or loose mounting, but not both - as much as I can take the argument that running or doing physical activities with a "fully loose" dagger isn't a problem, I can't believe anyone would ever stick to that kind of a carrying method after learning from experience that they are quite likely to loose a dagger during a fight.
The other point I would make is that I've learned that people often try to take my own dagger and use it against me. When the scabbard is tight I can usually pull it out rather fast and easily if I do it the right way - pulling with a decisive upward motion. The correct angle is key here - in case of a tighter scabbard my opponents usually couldn't take my own dagger, because their pulling angle in any reasonable fighting scenario was limited, so they oculdn't execute the straight up motion that and an owner of a weapon can.
Overall I would argue that tight dagger scabbards/sheaths were probably a thing, was it a majority? Im not going to make any assumptions here, but based on my fighting experience with a longsword and dagger I would rather have a tighter scabbard.
Now there are two caveats here:
- the dagger I use is a sparring blunt blade and it isn't balanced like a real dagger, its heavier toward the handle, this can impact how likely it is that the dagger falls out of a scabbard
- I'm completely ignoring the moisture/wheather argument here which could play a bigger part in choosing the carry method than I think.
I think the importance of being able to retrieve any blade one-handed is often under-appreciated, if not completely overlooked... whether it's carried for self-defense or as a tool. I have a lot of knives (pocket and fixed blade) and the ones I carry are almost always ones I can pull out and start using with one hand. It's just frustrating having to put something down or stop what you're doing to fumble around with a folding knife that requires both hands or pull a blade from a sheath that's too tight...
"For the sake of science ..." Thank you, Sir, for your noble sacrifice and thank you for your excellent educational presentations. You are rapidly becoming one of my favorites.
Very interesting.
Given that you prove the change and binding is so immediate and obvious, it would have to follow that ALL of the campaigning men would be well aware of the issue. They probably thought close fitting scabbards were a stupid idea that would last just as long as it didn't rain.
I got taught leather working by a saddler, or well two because it was a couple that taught me, and one was focused on making saddles while the other on making the tac-wear (like bridles ect.). It was super interesting how while they officially have the same "work" they do really different things, and also taught differently.
They did point out that while they would prefer to work with a local blacksmith for the metal fittings, it wasn't really profitable in current day and age for them.
10:33 love that you stood right in the path of the sprinkler hahaha
Great content as always Tod, I use a bit of Bees Wax on the first inch of the inside of my own personal bush crafting Knife sheaths so it holds the blade a bit but is still an easy draw when i need to use them, adds a little waterproofing too I guess
Contact cement also works well for adding leather bits in sheaths, the dry time is a little long though
love the dedication level to accuracy you took by fording the river!
3:52 this happen in modern day too but mostly with hammers on construction sites. You can walk with the hammer but going down the stairs or moving faster, the hand goes to the hammer automatically. There may be other stuff that hand goes to too like a knife. I have even worn a sledgehammer like a hammer and that really needed stabilization with a hand but it left other hand free for other stuff and carrying it in hand would have been less convenient.
So, idea, what if medieval scabbards were made loose like that on purpose for WHEN they get wet so that they would fit properly when they do? What if you were expected to grab a sheath that kinda fit pretty good and were expected to water treat it so that it would then tighten up slightly and mold itself around the blade some? What if they pre water treated the scabbards before selling them so that it wouldn't get too tight?
Sword scabbards were wood cored with a leather wrap. Wood swells when it's wet, and leather shrinks after it's been wet and subsequently dries. So if the air is humid or it gets wet, the wood will absorb more moisture, and it will swell - this is what makes it tight. Once the wood dries though, wood fibers will release some of the moisture back into the air and it can shrink back down. Whereas, if it was purely a leather sheath, the leather will not return to it's original size.
@@WillyShakes I think (at least I have done it) its reasonably common practise to soak leather before you use it to wrap something (then stretch it around) and sew it up. Then when it dries its a tight fit. Once wet the timber and leather would both swell. When they dry out again the leather should still be a tight fit.
I know of at least one way of making knife sheaths that involves wetting the leather. Pukko knives have a sheath that goes up around the handle as well. Wood around the blade, then wrapped in leather that covers the wood and partly up where the handle will be. The leather is then wetted and moulded with the knife in the sheath.
This man asks the best questions and provides top answers, great video.
Neat video. I do leatherwork. You did what is today known as wetforming. It's having a hard time drawing from the sheathe because the leather has molded to the fuller of the blade. Its narrowing angle toward the tip of the blade doesn't allow the blade to come out properly because the mold doesn't allow adequate space for it to do so. This causes the entire sheathe to need to expand when the blade is drawn, and leather isn't particularly stretchy.
I surmise that leather sheathes were either well oiled, well waxed, or some combination thereof to prevent wet forming of leather sheathes and to repel water. An oiled sheathe would have been quite flexible, which may not have been the best treatment for sheathes if you wanted a fast draw, but it would keep the blade well oiled on a journey from point A to point B. I wager that beeswaxed sheathes were preferred because wax repels water and stiffens leather. Or, waxed on the outside and oiled on the inside would have been an excellent treatment method.
That is, of course, considering that the leather received any treatment at all. I'm not an expert on medieval gear, so I'm telling you how I would treat a leather sheath if I were to make one with the goal of repelling water and fast draw.
I think that last few seconds shows that it was probably likely that swords and knives went through multiple sheaths/scabbards. You wouldn't want to carry that sword in that sheath, so get another one. Maybe on a knife it gets wet and tight and even your draw it, the leather is cut. Now you get a new one...
Brilliant video. I think we often forgot what using and wearing a sword or dagger day in and day out really means. For allot of us collectors in the modern world our pieces probably spend 99% of the time leaning against a wall or on a display stand.
Like any of those posh nobles amiright
@@ForestRaptor pretty sure posh nobles would have carried their swords when ever they go.
I love these videos! Really demystifies some of the finer points of that time period that are largely ignored
Frankly i could listen to you talk historical medieval maybes all day. You have a nice way of posing your opinions.
Tod, you're an actual damn treasure. I'm making a roleplaying system as a passion project and the perspective you bring and tests you do have made me consider aspects I couldn't have thought of otherwise.
I think it bares mentioning that the maker and the user often live in vastly different climates in this global era, not to mention seasonal variation in humidity. I live in a hot dry climate, my buyer may live in the tropics or a cold snowy climate. I may make a scabbard in an Australia summer and two weeks later it's in a new York winter. Definitely want some Lee way in the fit.
Awesome video! On one point though, I believe theres a decent bit of evidence for textile or parchment liners on many medieval sword scabbards. At least from my reading in Covering the Blade by Goubitz, there are lots of imprints of whip-stitches along the mouths of scabbards, implying the presence of a liner that was attached there. If I'm not mistaken the still existing scabbard for the sword of saint maurice is one such example among many other fragmentary finds.
As a tip from the pistol-holster side of things, soak your leather in your hide glue to waterproof and harden it and mold it to the blade. If it's really hard and doesn't flex, then you can fit it tightly enough at the outset that you don't have to worry about it falling out, but then if you think you might need it just give it a little push with the thumb of your left hand to loosen it up a bit, and the tapers of the blade will make the rest of it super easy from there. And waterproofing the leather and wood you make the scabbard from can also help avoid rusting the blade. Leather can be pretty mean about absorbing water from the air and doing noxious things to your metal.
That is exactly one of the scenes i love from Gladiator ... Maximus is able to kill the Praetorian because he couldn't draw his sword due to frost sticking the blade to the scabbard. Genius.
There is this amazing thing called spell checker...
@@marcpeterson1092 There fixed it for you my little flower ... your eyes hurt ? Just tell me that you understood the message in both ways. English is not my first language.
@@marcpeterson1092 hmm, condescending.
I very much enjoy the way you bring practical reality into our understanding of Middle Ages living and debunk our preconceived notions of how they preferred their kit! Always a pleasure to watch, thanks Todd Cutler!
😀
Great work Tod, thank you for the great craftsmanship and dialogue to us laymen. 👏
Here in Germany I've learned from a swordsmith that they often lined their scabbards with oiled fur with the grain facing downwards. This way the blade was kept nice and greasy, had a bit of wiggle room and the grain of the fur (goat mostly) had some grip to keep the sword in place.
What's your opinion about that?
Excellent deduction once again. I look forward to whatever you decide to tackle next.
Love the dedication and passion towards understanding the past.
Very well done. I make my own scabbards & i tend to like them pressure fit so they dont fall out but i did run into this problem. It doesnt rain here much but when it does or if I get wet it does cause them to bind. So i discovered it is helpful to rig something to tje scabbard for your thumb to push on.
So there was a reason why they made scabbards loose fitting!
Excellent work as always, Tod!
my basement (and clean shop area) can be humid. If I forget to run a de-humidifier, swords I am working on often stick in the scabbards I am making for them. I have to dehumidify until it shrinks enough to remove it. Then, heat the blade a little and put it into the wooden scabbard. It will shrink the wood that it touches some and then it will fit right forever. I have wanted to ship before, and had a basement leak, and had the sword stuck the day I planned to ship. That's how I learned this weird trick to salvage a scabbard without having to scrape it full-length potentially. Thanks for the video. It sort of resonated with my experiences making all-wood scabbards for custom swords.
Since leather shrinks and hardens after being soaked, especially with hot water, it may give us a hint of how they fitted scabbards to the individual blades and how they got away with using only one layer of leather.
I like the channel and the effort Tod shows, top notch.
Also I thought about scabbards and came to one very simple conclusion, unlike in this piece, the inside was treated to repel water. This goes for wood and leather. And they knew about the problem so they wouldn't ignore it totally and apply protection inside and out.
There are several ways of doing so, think of boiled linseed oil, varnish or tar like the boatbuilders did for centuries. The archeologists wouldn't necessarily find the fact if they don't look for it specifically. Tar in a wooden splinter is nearly impossible to recognize you need to run a test for it to do so.
The high status ones may be lacquered not only for the display of wealth or style but also for practical reasons.
One thing came to my mind is that force moving towards enemy can throw multiple of these in volleys while advancing, 1 per 20-30 meters of closing in, so there might be not time to pick them up as there's more incoming. We are also bit used to seeing volleys but what if there's constant harass coming at you. Also they can be useful for a infantry to have against bigger targets like cavalry formation, to possibly injure/frighten the mounts, riders aren't going to pick them up. It's a handy piece to have, throwing it from behind the battlements fast, and get back to cover. Things might haven't been that easy to pick up in a big crowd of soldiers moving about, trampling the one's that landed on the ground, while the guy next to you is screaming due to having one stuck in his leg, arm, whatever.
Also, if you get a cramp or minor muscle injury from the throw, then you could fall back to the rear maybe to get some respite, I bet they'd rotate the injured anyway in any circumstance with fresh troops, so they could fight a while later in long battles.
*So* many good points... which it's fun to see someone very knowledgeable put forward when, ironically, I've been trying to say this to fellow modern collectors for 20, 30 years or more.
(And so very refreshing to hear someone knowledgeable putting forward that "*I* don't like it, but.." and distinguish between preference--and necessity.)
A delightfully nuanced exploration of this whole subject. I really like the whole theme of 'just because we like it like that today, doesnt mean it was fit for purpose under medieval use.'
Always fascinating to see your experiments and hear your views on these topics! Thanks for sharing with us!
Great video Tod!!! I can see why you have so many subscribers. I'll have to give you a shout next time I'm out your way. ...Richard
Reading the comments brought something to my mind when I was a conscript: even rifles slings are set differently depending on the situation. On a parade, they are fit tightly, so they look good and you can fling the rifle around pompously. In a practice they sling is loose, so you can actually keep it hanging and still aim with the gun. Can't do that with parade-tight sling.
So somewhat loose scabbard makes sense when your life depends on your sidearm being able to be drawn as fast as possible if you lose your main weapon. But if it's your main weapon, it could be a tad tighter fit, as you have more time to wrestle with it before your unit closes with the enemy.
Loved the 2 weeks later insight!
Brilliant as always Todd!
Hi Todd good to watch you on tv again today (28th May 2023) on scrap heap challenge ..
Thank you , Tod .
🐺
Am the same my seax is a bit loose and its fell out a few times. So i ended up tying a bit of string to keep it in until i got a friend to glue a leather band inside the scabbard.
I didnt even know i needed this video in my life.
Loved it 😊
Hi Tod, could you make a video on how to care for dagger sheaths?
I think it would be interesting.
Good video. Thank you
Awesome stuff Tod! Well thought out and fun to watch.
0:00 I can tell that this video is going to create an interesting discussion. 😄
Swords were backup weapons in battle. If you need it, you need it RIGHT NOW. And I feel like a soldier after months on campaign probably went weeks without "testing" drawing his sword (just assuming, given how soldiers in all times and places tend to treat their kit). In that context, having it a little extra loose to make sure makes some sense.
Even with modern swords and "well-fitted" scabbards, they loosen over time so you really can't trust the sword not to slip out. If you're going to live with it on your hip maybe you already have to assume it can slip out anyways, in which case there's literally no downside to making sure you can draw it at need.
Oh, and another great video Tod, thank you.
I wonder what effect a woolen lining would have. Would the wool hold onto humidity and moisture and rust the blade faster, or would the natural lanolin act as a rust preventative?
Interestingly, I recently tightened the sheath of a left hand dagger bought from you. I used a small piece of deer hide, glued it in exactly as you described.
I also make my own sword scabbards. I have a particular method that isn’t historical but it works. I always line the inside with fur, use about 2mm wood (sometimes two layers of edge banding adhered together), wrap that with linen (with rabbit skin glue), leather (hand-stitched tight while wet, no adhesive). They usually take about a month to settle in but they’re always perfectly snug at the end. The swords won’t fall out, but drawing is smooth and effortless. The inner fur lining might not have been used in the past, but it helps keep the blade clean and oiled, allowing me to store the swords in their scabbards for long stretches without worry.
Now I’m going to have to submerge one to test it.
I wouldn't be so positive on the method not being historical. Before I made my first scabbard, I did a lot of research on the topic of scabbard making and came also up with lining the inside with fur (shaved goat fur - with the stroke towards the point of the sword). I believe it was a more ancient way of building scabbards (dark ages/early middleages).
Yeah, that’s about how I understand it, too. More of an early medieval thing.
I do it for all of my swords, except for antiques and Japanese ones.
@@mitcharcher7528 I still wonder why they abandoned that way of building a scabbard. While those are more "chunky" due to the multiple layering of materials, they also work very well - even under damp conditions. Due to some oversight, I've let a sword sit about half a year during fall and winter in a scabbard on my terrace and when I tried to pull the sword, it came loose pretty easy and didn't have any mayor corrosion damage to the blade (the guard and pommel had quite some rust).
Another great video Tod!!
Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up💙💛
Good presentation, thanks mate 👍
As Adam Smith commented in Wealth of Nations when describing how pins were made in a pin factory with each worker having one single simple job.
I wonder if some smaller towns would have so many specialties though and wouldn’t perhaps just have one smith and another person that makes handles and assembles knives/tools. They could then either have a family member or worker who makes the fairly low quality scabbard/sheath.
On the rare occasions I have made knife sheaths I like to make a thin wooden sheath to wrap the leather around, it prevents the leather sheath from getting cut up.
I'm not sure if it was you (Tod) or from another channel. Talking about oiling a weapon (Sword) to:
¹Protect against water, rust.
²Provides a more smooth and deeper cut.
Oiling up the sword, might also wear off the friction/suction of the wet scabbard. And also treat the leather scabbard.
Multiple functions 😁
I think Skallagrim said that in a video where he showed maintenance for his swords.
@@xxlepusxx.. Maybe 😊 Another great channel.
I hear a lot about hunters bow and arrows vs the warbows and arrows. I'd love to see a comparative video.
Have now made over a dozen dagger and sword scabbards for myself and mates. Ive found that they start quite tight (usually fine until the last inch or so of stitching). But a bit of oil and working in and out of the scabbard and they work really well. But saying that I haven't soaked them. Interesting video.
Tod out here asking the oddball everyday questions no one else will ask.
I had the same issues with making a scabbard for my Albion bastard sword. I steamed and formed the poplar around the blade, and covered it with linen using rabbit skin glue. At first, it was snug, but would "lock" in at the last fraction of an inch. Later, during the hot, dry summer, it loosened up. Now it is ready to fall out, but it still tightens noticeably with any ambient humidity. Being an American, I have the same issues with holsters for my various handguns. Snug fit and secure hold, or quick draw? Fortunately, modern technology provides me with a variety of different options.
Now that is very practical testing! Love it.
Guessing in tournament or when marching into battles they would use some simple that didn't hold the sword too tightly
Talk about give your opponent advantage, to quote Maximus from Gladiator: The frost, sometimes it makes the blade stick!
Thank you for taking one for the team so we dont have to. Quality stuff as usual! #unsungheroes
i remember making myself a wood sheath for a knife and within an hour of going outside in the winter it was pretty much welded inside.
Even without getting into “retention” type examples, modern kydex holsters often have protrusions or an extended sideguard on the side closer to the body so you can push against them with your thumb as part of drawing to ensure the contents leave cleanly. I have **A** kydex knife sheath with one, and it works well enough. I wonder if such a thing could be done for a sword or knife with period materials.
Right, or an indent in the scabbard that corresponds to a bump protruding from the blade, so it sets the tension needed to draw but in a highly predictable way; the scabbard could be otherwise quite loose, and thus not worry about unpredictability due to friction.
I know very well that a sheath can be too tight. Back in the 90s I accidentally left a very sharp long bladed spear with a fairly tight leather sheath on it out on the rain overnight. The sheath was very tight after that and removing it resulted in a trip to the emergency room to get 8 stitches in my thumb.
Join the club
Loved it. Great video and topic
Here in the US consider a tight draw like you were a professional gun fighter in the old west. Loose is fast, tight is dead. It really all comes down to how fast do you anticipate needing to access your weapons or tools. If you're climbing a cliff you want your stuff secured to your person extremely well so as to not lose it. If you are expecting a fight you want it loose and rattling in your scabbard. Function fits form just as form fits function. Aka situational dependent case by case.
Good words - thanks
I just received that messer that's stuck in the table. It's real nice and quite beefy
Tod! You The Man! Love ya work, asking the question, testing the question and generating more questions.
So were scabbards/sheaths considered a ‘disposable’ (for some strange definition of disposable, a fighting season, a year, so many river crossings, or it’s just too bloody tight) item?
And was the material (poplar or birch) valuable enough that after it has swollen, we let it dry (in a box near the cooking hearth) for “some time” and it’s back to ok?
Same question for a completed scabbard: it gets wet, it becomes unusable, is it worth “carefully drying out” or just chuck it in the bin & get a new one?
You mentioned scabbards with a small amount of wool - greasy (water repellant) wool? Some sort of self lubricating effect? Would this have been any use on voyages of Scandinavian tourists or similar?
I dare say we simply don’t know…but you put a lot of fun into the asking of the pragmatic questions 😀 keep up the terrific work, Hi from Oz 🇦🇺
Oh, you caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about,
You caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about,
You caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about,
But they MUST NOT be too tight!
Regarding the end there-
That scabbard will loosen back up though in a bit of time and with some use.
Though not as nice as yours I do make scabbards too- even made a couple for my Albion Knight- one with fittings I bought from you-
Mine are usually pretty snug when new made but after just a bit of break in they loosen up some. My end goal is a scabbard that when held upside down holds the sword but when lightly shaken easily releases. That seems to be my sweet spot
So you have to consider the new fit as opposed to the broken in fit too
I somehow have a vague memory of hearing about bronze or copper inlays in the scabbard but cant remenber where i heard that.
Wouldn't it be an additional service for the Tod Cuttler workshop to pre-wet the leather to have it pre-shrunk?
fascinating! thanks tod!
How well oiled was the sword blade was the sheath oiled ? All these are questions and answers
Excellent video. I have to admit I have never given any thought to the hows and whys of sword and scabbard making in the medieval days. Do you thinking oiling the blade with grease or oil would have helped at all?
Another fascinating video 👍
Thanks for doing so many of these types of videos! You are showing me exactly what I want to know, how these weapons and armors perform in the real world. I've often wondered how practical a group of archers would be when trouping about the english countryside in the rain, do crossbows require less care and attention? And again wondering about the armor such as chain links when they get super rusty, how would a man-at-arms clean each individual link? Would the rusty armor perform differently or cause mobility problems?
The way I've heard (with no confirmation whatsoever) is that indeed, rusty chain links can bind as well as weaken, thus presumably hampering movement as well as effectiveness
Again with no confirmation I heard that a typical way to clean mail is stick it in a barrel with some sand & roll it around for an hour or 2; the fine cleaning/oiling comes afterwards if necessary
And arrows don't stay straight when it's rainy
@@rdt1104 My understanding is that bowstrings are more affected by immediate exposure to water; waney arrows would prolly take a bit longer to appear
Now I want to see the same test with wool lined scabbards and such.
What should be done if a knifes blade does become slightly pitted with a small amount of rust?
Hi Tod, another great video. I've been a fan of the channel for quite a while now and so have a lot of my friends. Recently we have been discussing a really cool experiment/video idea we'd love to see you try out. Slings vs armor. Seeing what a skilled slinger could do to various armor types with the various ammunition types that were historically used. There's an exceptionally skilled slinger who has a small TH-cam channel called "Archaic arms". He also lives in England and has said he would love to volunteer his skills for testing if you're interested. Seeing even a short film with you guys would be like a dream come true for us all. If it sounds like a cool idea to you please don't hesitate to contact him or myself to organize it.
Also, mad respect to the dedication to actually get into the river with the sword😂
For the glues, what about contact cement? I thought that was the go-to for leather
I made a scabbard for a sword I had,, and what I did was make it from two thin pieces of wood that I carved out a slot for the sword in, and then cladding the inside of the scabbard with fur and glued the pieces together..Finally the outside was covered in leather.. The fur inside both held the sword in, and when you put your lightly oiled sword in it it never rusted...
A classic mud test would be interesting, simulating falling into mud / dropping the sword into mud while sheathed. Would a tight fit / loose fit produce different results.
I love it!
I wonder if when there was "make to pattern" situation, the various craftsmen could have been given either just the part they were to match, or a more complete version. So in that case they'd be able to make the various pieces to match much closer to the other parts, like the blade the scabbard is meant to match could be available to check the fit on.
Or just everyone using a set of jigs that match because they were all made at the same time.
What about putting a little wedge in the scabbard if you know you're going to be running around and won't need to draw quickly? Would that work?