Maybe since 125 CA is already far higher than the avg national league player that contributed to the lack of development? If they all started at ~70 I wonder if they'd see more development?
training important upto age of 18 then playing becomes more important but the standard of opposition also plays a big part the 2 at hemel where playing too low a level
Yeah i agree thats what kev missed a little its the level they play at and the clubs facilities that matter. To balance this out give say four clubs in the english pyramid the same training facilities and run this again to see which of the 4 players from each level improves the most
Training is more important prior to turning 18, that's why the twins at Hemel didn't develop in the first set of sims. Match time becomes more important once they hit 18.
I'd be interested to see what happens to the same player developing in different leagues. Scotland, England, Spain, Germany and Brazil could be a fun comparison.
The game will vary some of the individual attributes, just as we saw their heights were different. All 3 were 125 current ability, 200 potential ability though.
@@lollujo I understand, i just think determination is a very important attribute. Thanks for the reply and just want to say i enjoy your videos very much. Cheers
Would like to see a team in the bottom league with 1 wonder kid in every position but every season they lose 1 wonderkid, see how well they replace them
The two stuck at Hemel will have lower transfer values because they have transfers arranged and teams can't come in for them - but also, a Semi pro team hinders development of players. Place one in Hemel, and one at a Full time team and you'll see the full time player develop way faster
It's not the Training facilities that's important here. A CA of 125 is Championship Level. A player will never develop even with potential when playing below Championship Level. They just are not playing against their peers. Sorry Kev, I think you are wrong in this instance. The training facilities will determine the speed they develop when playing at their correct level. So the next test should be to put The Duck Kids in 3 premier league teams (Or Championship teams) with 125 CA but different Training Set ups - and test out this theory... Prove me wrong :)
I believe up to age 18, it doesn't matter so much about playing, you need as good facilities as possible, they develop most in training until that age. After that, playing time at an apprropriate level is best, so they need to be playing at a level of their abilities, so the 2 players at Hemel hempstead are playing below their ability so aren't progressing as much as the facilities are lower, and the playing quality is also lower.
Two problems in my opinion with this test: - Under 18 development is almost exclusively training and after it's match play. - They were already too good to be at Hemel Hemstead. So you sent 2 players to clubs with 0 training facilities and 125 CA at 15 meaning they had no possible way to improve in the training facilities there. This time capsuled them - if you noticed the second check in we see major improvements to all players. Not just Huey who in the 5 training and youth facs at City. They also would have also suffered heavily from being better than the entire league at 125CA. I look at development as a set of overlapping bell curves - and you have to find the balance that makes the bell the highest and thinnest possible to get the most use of them. An example is Lamine Yamal - I setup a "pre-buy" in the year of him turning 18 so he can develop at Barca but then play for my lower tier teams against the top like Barca. Likely costs around 2x getting him at the jump but still under 30m while he climbs the bell curve.
I'd like to see how a subpar striker would do in a superteam like City. Maybe a 110 CA striker playing his whole career as a starter in front for them.
Would be interesting to see an entire squad where one player leaves per year to see how far they can climb the pyramid before they run out of wonderkids
Not a fan of FM one-offs because I much prefer narrative of your longer series, but this one I will definitely watch. Love the premise and I’m curious to see the outcome
Kev i would suggest the reason that dewey took a little dip to 196 was simply training to master a position which lowers your overall ability as you are no longer a master of one position(or in his case learned an extra position to the ones he started with). I have always wondered if the ai is smart enough to look at a player with certain attributes and retarin them to make them useful. like a cf with 4 for finishing but 10 for vision and passing which you do get with youth squads as you go later into the game where i find retraining people much more useful
The new position adds ability points and thus consumes potential ability, it does not take them away. (I think you mixed up the notion to "be aware, a new position costs points") what it does is that it leaves less room for potential to go into attributes Hope this clears it up
@@aristaeus2514 I would have thought the time spent training the position would have meant they dropped overall training and therefore decreased the ca the player already had
I'd like to see more longer term experiments from you, Kev. Back in t'day I remember Golden FM did a series on swapping the English pyramid and it was class.
Be intriguing to see who has the greatest youth academy set up, comparison between Man City and Ajax , two brothers, both locked in to their respective clubs
Were all three set to be immune to injuries? It would have been worth looking at that, if they had any major injuries like an ACL tear it would have affected their growth.
Thanks Kev it would have been interested to see where a default player would have ended up i.e if he had been allowed to be transfered from HH and wasn't locked down for any time
Id be interested to see their hidden attributes as well at each check point. Mentoring could have changed their stats to make them less likely to want to develop themselves further
glad it wasn't the same as Tom's it was a good interesting video, perhaps you could do one with a brother in different postions to see which one develops quicker?
Decent video - would love for these lads to do a more "scientific" experiment. With greater numbers to see if game time or training facilities etc make the biggest different on player development...
This was interesting, as I do have young players on my Gateshead team that are developing even though we’re still down in the National League! Wonder why it was so stagnant?
Playing youngsters becomes more importantant than training AFTER they've turned 18, so from ages 15 to 18 most development will be made from training. 🙂
My understanding with development through playing is it needs to be at the right level. If hes championship level at 16 and playing with and against worse players how will they improve. Whereas if he started at national league level or lower he would have improved at least to maybe league 2 level until hitting the ceiling then. Great video though, think it showed that the late bloomers are actually in the game and not just made up.
26:30 the amount of games that give ratings (minimal 15min played) also take the reputation of the league into account. These are the most important factors to a 18+ year old Before 18 its about training facilities, training schedule (time) and quality of coaches Having a semi pro training schedule, 0.5 star rating coaches and facilities.. only to go 18+ and get match ratings in a 1 star reputation League is indeed like nothing at all (the game is ofcourse designed to have high potential players being picked up by higher League teams) Nice experiment though, do agree you need a lab coat next time! Ps. Did the guy going to Saudi Arabia in the end still make more money than the (most likely) multiple balon d'or winner at Man City?
I've always been under the impression that the level of opposition/level of competition is a factor as well as "just getting game time". I.e. one full match vs a Prem team/in the Prem is far more valuable than one full match vs a non-league team/in non-league? I also feel Hempstead were hard done by. xD You could at least have given them _some_ money for the two brothers :P Nothing crazy, perhaps £5M for the 20yo and £10M for the 25yo? Maybe even with addons? Not at all unreasonable for what are arguably two of the three most talented footballers in history, even if they are "sniffed out" in non-league. The mother club _might have_ invested some of that money, and actually made it further up the leagues. (INB4 "but ths is about game time vs facilities": Yes, yes, but I find what happens to the club is equally interesting, if not more. ^^ ) A fourth brother with the opposite trajectory would have been interesting as well: Startin at ManCity, with the same CA/PA, and going to non-league age 20 (and if you can add a second future transfer make that happen when he's 40) :D
I wonder if the two lads stuck in non league would have developed better at a professional non league team rather than being semi pro's for the duration of their time there
I think trapping 2 players in the National League is a massive bias. I would like to see the same experiment with the 2 starting in non-league but not trapped in it
They just leave as soon as they turn 17. I originally tried it with just 2 players, one at City and one at Hemel. Before they even turned 18 they were both at City!
@@floriandagniaux948 If you manage to do it, i'd like to see if it's better for dewie to play win man city u18 or to be loaned in league one... In my saves, i tend not to loan young players and make them play some times in A team and the rest of the time in u18....
Why does every football manager youtuber always give the wonderkids similar-sounding names? It's always Barry, Larry and Harry or something like that. Why can't you call one Phil and the other Gregorio or something?
Maybe since 125 CA is already far higher than the avg national league player that contributed to the lack of development? If they all started at ~70 I wonder if they'd see more development?
125 is like league 1 or championship, ofc he didn't develop in national league
@@tmlarkynado7604good championship quality. A team of all 125's and a couple of 135ish players and you should get promoted
You're probably right.
And hemel hempstead is semi-pro. Training matters a lot for u-18s in football manager
training important upto age of 18 then playing becomes more important but the standard of opposition also plays a big part the 2 at hemel where playing too low a level
True, the Man City starter was loaned out to a championship side in his first few seasons. The other two wonder kids didn’t have a chance
Yeah i agree thats what kev missed a little its the level they play at and the clubs facilities that matter. To balance this out give say four clubs in the english pyramid the same training facilities and run this again to see which of the 4 players from each level improves the most
Training is more important prior to turning 18, that's why the twins at Hemel didn't develop in the first set of sims. Match time becomes more important once they hit 18.
That was a well thought out twist on the usual format. Great content Kev.
Thanks!
I'd be interested to see what happens to the same player developing in different leagues. Scotland, England, Spain, Germany and Brazil could be a fun comparison.
I love the DuckTales themed names for the wonderkids. Top effort.
They are not the same. Look at the huge difference in determination. City guy has 13, others have 8 and 4. Thats a big difference my man
The game will vary some of the individual attributes, just as we saw their heights were different. All 3 were 125 current ability, 200 potential ability though.
@@lollujo I understand, i just think determination is a very important attribute. Thanks for the reply and just want to say i enjoy your videos very much. Cheers
Would like to see a team in the bottom league with 1 wonder kid in every position but every season they lose 1 wonderkid, see how well they replace them
Interesting…
Useful, informative and creative content providing a valuable insight. Cheers Kev.
Thats how determination effects player development
This has legitimately left me wanting to know how Huey got on possibly coaching/managing. I like me an underdog! 😂
More of these kind of shenanigans please.
Should do one at Burton vs Man city. The whole part time vs full time would have impacted development here. Burton has good facilities
Loved this video Kev - super interesting to see what effect all these variables have on player development
The two stuck at Hemel will have lower transfer values because they have transfers arranged and teams can't come in for them - but also, a Semi pro team hinders development of players.
Place one in Hemel, and one at a Full time team and you'll see the full time player develop way faster
It's not the Training facilities that's important here. A CA of 125 is Championship Level. A player will never develop even with potential when playing below Championship Level. They just are not playing against their peers. Sorry Kev, I think you are wrong in this instance. The training facilities will determine the speed they develop when playing at their correct level. So the next test should be to put The Duck Kids in 3 premier league teams (Or Championship teams) with 125 CA but different Training Set ups - and test out this theory... Prove me wrong :)
I believe up to age 18, it doesn't matter so much about playing, you need as good facilities as possible, they develop most in training until that age. After that, playing time at an apprropriate level is best, so they need to be playing at a level of their abilities, so the 2 players at Hemel hempstead are playing below their ability so aren't progressing as much as the facilities are lower, and the playing quality is also lower.
Two problems in my opinion with this test:
- Under 18 development is almost exclusively training and after it's match play.
- They were already too good to be at Hemel Hemstead.
So you sent 2 players to clubs with 0 training facilities and 125 CA at 15 meaning they had no possible way to improve in the training facilities there.
This time capsuled them - if you noticed the second check in we see major improvements to all players. Not just Huey who in the 5 training and youth facs at City.
They also would have also suffered heavily from being better than the entire league at 125CA.
I look at development as a set of overlapping bell curves - and you have to find the balance that makes the bell the highest and thinnest possible to get the most use of them.
An example is Lamine Yamal - I setup a "pre-buy" in the year of him turning 18 so he can develop at Barca but then play for my lower tier teams against the top like Barca. Likely costs around 2x getting him at the jump but still under 30m while he climbs the bell curve.
This was a nice change of pace
Love this, think all the experiments should have a ducktails feel
I enjoyed that Kev. Good experiment and hope you do a few more 👍🏻
15/16/17 training
18+ games/rating
Thats the youth development mantra
11:01 Kounde to Arsenal in 5 years, LET'S GOOOOOO!!!!
I bet the 4 determination stunted the development of those kids
It was brilliant Kev!! How about trying youngsters with not as fresh current ability…see how they develop.
Would’ve been interesting to see what each had won through their careers. Reckon there could’ve been a Ballon D’Or in there
Aa was proven in the last FM, training is the main thing for u18 players, games don't do much. Only after 18 does playing games take priority.
Della Duck must be such a proud mother.
This was really fun kev, thanks
I'd like to see how a subpar striker would do in a superteam like City. Maybe a 110 CA striker playing his whole career as a starter in front for them.
Thumbnail: Twins!
The twins: Huey, Duey & Louie
🤔
Loved it. But if it’s facilities over ability could you test that with 3 players all in same league but playing for clubs with different facilities??
I’m a little disappointed you didn’t make their last names “ Lewis and the news”
Would be interesting to see an entire squad where one player leaves per year to see how far they can climb the pyramid before they run out of wonderkids
Make 3 brothers, one with perfect physicals, one perfect technicals and one perfect mentals
More experiments please! This was very enjoyable
Not a fan of FM one-offs because I much prefer narrative of your longer series, but this one I will definitely watch. Love the premise and I’m curious to see the outcome
Kev i would suggest the reason that dewey took a little dip to 196 was simply training to master a position which lowers your overall ability as you are no longer a master of one position(or in his case learned an extra position to the ones he started with). I have always wondered if the ai is smart enough to look at a player with certain attributes and retarin them to make them useful. like a cf with 4 for finishing but 10 for vision and passing which you do get with youth squads as you go later into the game where i find retraining people much more useful
The new position adds ability points and thus consumes potential ability, it does not take them away. (I think you mixed up the notion to "be aware, a new position costs points") what it does is that it leaves less room for potential to go into attributes
Hope this clears it up
@@aristaeus2514 I would have thought the time spent training the position would have meant they dropped overall training and therefore decreased the ca the player already had
I'd like to see more longer term experiments from you, Kev. Back in t'day I remember Golden FM did a series on swapping the English pyramid and it was class.
What about the workrate?? should it not be at 20 from the start so the always play at 100% each game?
Be intriguing to see who has the greatest youth academy set up, comparison between Man City and Ajax , two brothers, both locked in to their respective clubs
I really enjoyed that Kev
Were all three set to be immune to injuries? It would have been worth looking at that, if they had any major injuries like an ACL tear it would have affected their growth.
How do you create the players? I’m trying to make wonderkids of my own on fm24
Yes, please do a video tracking their managerial careers
Do a video where you put Haaland and Mbappe at two non league clubs of similar quality and see how they perform next.
Thanks Kev it would have been interested to see where a default player would have ended up i.e if he had been allowed to be transfered from HH and wasn't locked down for any time
I tried that first. He joined Man City as soon as he turned 17!
How did England get on through all of this?
I'm looking forward to seeing how Cuthbert, Dibble and Grub get on next season.
Three identical wonderkids? I think their mum deserves an MBE
Id be interested to see their hidden attributes as well at each check point. Mentoring could have changed their stats to make them less likely to want to develop themselves further
glad it wasn't the same as Tom's it was a good interesting video, perhaps you could do one with a brother in different postions to see which one develops quicker?
This is a great idea. Should have went premier league, league 2 & VNL/N.. But this was a great watch.
Imagine being a twin and one out grows in height
Decent video - would love for these lads to do a more "scientific" experiment. With greater numbers to see if game time or training facilities etc make the biggest different on player development...
Kev, how about a similar version but coaches? Do FM24 simulate growth of coaches? Or is it just random.
Great vid would love to see them in a 2nd or 3rd rather than none league or maybe they all start 3rd division top leagues like Italy Spain England
Same idea but on different continents, couple of top clubs and some wonderkid producers. maybe quintuplets this time.
This was interesting, as I do have young players on my Gateshead team that are developing even though we’re still down in the National League! Wonder why it was so stagnant?
Did they win at all much kev ?
1.8 mill a week, Louie definitely won in the end.
Ralph Hasenhüttl was Englands Manager (:
Playing youngsters becomes more importantant than training AFTER they've turned 18, so from ages 15 to 18 most development will be made from training. 🙂
How did Huey's manager career end
Hemel hempstead shirt in thumbnail
That was a brilliant video
The reason for not improving at a semi pro club is that with only training 2x per week he is losing CA, cancelling out the gains from playing.
Solid experiment for a question everyone has.
My understanding with development through playing is it needs to be at the right level. If hes championship level at 16 and playing with and against worse players how will they improve. Whereas if he started at national league level or lower he would have improved at least to maybe league 2 level until hitting the ceiling then. Great video though, think it showed that the late bloomers are actually in the game and not just made up.
although this is similar to tomfm vids have you talk makes it better
Good video. Thanks
Yeah the Hemel boys have awful determination 😂
Part time players just haven't developed for a few editions of FM now
26:30 the amount of games that give ratings (minimal 15min played) also take the reputation of the league into account. These are the most important factors to a 18+ year old
Before 18 its about training facilities, training schedule (time) and quality of coaches
Having a semi pro training schedule, 0.5 star rating coaches and facilities.. only to go 18+ and get match ratings in a 1 star reputation League is indeed like nothing at all (the game is ofcourse designed to have high potential players being picked up by higher League teams)
Nice experiment though, do agree you need a lab coat next time!
Ps. Did the guy going to Saudi Arabia in the end still make more money than the (most likely) multiple balon d'or winner at Man City?
he earned the same in his 2 years as the other earned in 8 years at city. so came closer but would have needed another year in saudi.
I was rooting for Huey all throughout this
I've always been under the impression that the level of opposition/level of competition is a factor as well as "just getting game time". I.e. one full match vs a Prem team/in the Prem is far more valuable than one full match vs a non-league team/in non-league?
I also feel Hempstead were hard done by. xD You could at least have given them _some_ money for the two brothers :P Nothing crazy, perhaps £5M for the 20yo and £10M for the 25yo? Maybe even with addons? Not at all unreasonable for what are arguably two of the three most talented footballers in history, even if they are "sniffed out" in non-league. The mother club _might have_ invested some of that money, and actually made it further up the leagues. (INB4 "but ths is about game time vs facilities": Yes, yes, but I find what happens to the club is equally interesting, if not more. ^^ )
A fourth brother with the opposite trajectory would have been interesting as well: Startin at ManCity, with the same CA/PA, and going to non-league age 20 (and if you can add a second future transfer make that happen when he's 40) :D
Should have been playing for Duckberg FC
Would've been interesting to have one with no fixed transfer to see if the game can develop him through transfers
I tried that and he went to Man City as soon as he turned 17…
@@lollujo ahhh fair enough then, those rascals at City know a good player don't they
Please do a manager career for Huey
I think being on the youth contract doesnt help the development, no full time contract so assume dont train with the team....
I wonder if the two lads stuck in non league would have developed better at a professional non league team rather than being semi pro's for the duration of their time there
I think trapping 2 players in the National League is a massive bias.
I would like to see the same experiment with the 2 starting in non-league but not trapped in it
They just leave as soon as they turn 17. I originally tried it with just 2 players, one at City and one at Hemel. Before they even turned 18 they were both at City!
@@lollujo That’s the problem with the English leagues. I need time to think at the perfect experimental protocol
@@floriandagniaux948 If you manage to do it, i'd like to see if it's better for dewie to play win man city u18 or to be loaned in league one... In my saves, i tend not to loan young players and make them play some times in A team and the rest of the time in u18....
hmm haha seen this somewhere before haha
To be fair Kalvin Philips has started about as many games for England as Man City! 🙄
Is Hemel Hempstead's badge Henry VIII??
In all his time at AC Milan Louie did not once win the Serie A or anything with them.
Felt sorry for Hamel Hampstead loosing there 2 best players on a free could have at least sold them for a fee lol ...
Well this seems familiar
Justice for Huey
Why does every football manager youtuber always give the wonderkids similar-sounding names? It's always Barry, Larry and Harry or something like that. Why can't you call one Phil and the other Gregorio or something?
Christmas dinner would be TENSE AF for a number of years. £5 p/w v £450k p/w 😅
its really hard following your video when the names are so similar
More!
How do you actually create and trap a player? I cannot work it out for the life of me!!!!
Create them in the editor, trap them by arranging a future transfer for them
@@lollujo pre game editor or in game? I can’t work out how to do the future transfer for the life of me
Leave Tom to make this videos mate
No thank you
I'm cheering for huey kev also tamworthhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
he did it
Seems dumb because the statement is you learn playing not sitting. So what’s the logic behind a player developing while on the bench.
Ducktales FC
tomfm did this
Never heard of him
#JUSTICEFORHUEY
Views, views, VIEWS!