Harumi works into his videos even when they have nothing to do with her not that I'm complaining i could list to gosh about her awesome to the sun explode
Actually Marinette behavior in derision is a normal behavior. Some people who have very traumatizing experiences will pretend nothing is wrong and even refused to accept the trauma. However that causes the person to fight their own mind. And if it isn’t properly dealt with a major snap happens and the brain forcibly takes over. It basically says YOU WILL DEAL WITH IT! And when a person has their brain takes over when they are desperate to ignore it they become in a panic state. And there are signs that shows Marinette is a person that sufferes this. In fact it can be misinterpreted for stalking. That one scene in the episode where Marinette says this: “I will never love anyone again unless I know everything about them.”
Nothing complicated about it. If you: - Break into your victims house - Know their entire schedule without having had it provided to you - Steal his phone - STALK HIM to another COUNTRY/CONTINENT Among many many other things... Then yes, you are most definitely a stalker.
@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 I see what you're saying, but hear me out. Did Adrien ever know she did that? Considering Adrien was shown being uncomfortable with the way his fans treat him, which is similar to Marinette, I see no reason other than Thomas Astruc pulling things out of thin air to justify her actions.
@@panpanmonday3585 The fact that Adrien never realised what Marinette did is exactly why she isn't a stalker. That's what I wanted to explain. Also, Marinette is more than just a fan: she's a close friend of Adrien who sees him as more than an idol. Astruc never justifies Marinette's actions; the writing portrays her convoluted plans as futile and ultimately useless. It's her kindness and affection towards Adrien that caused him to fall for her.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 1: That doesn't mean it's not stalking because Adrien has been shown to be uncomfortable when fans pursue him. From what we are given, Adrien wouldn't like it. Also, what does that even mean? Does it mean we aren't allowed to call someone a stalker if they watch, follow, and memorize someone's schedule just because the person might like it? The term "stalker" has multiple meanings, as different countries and states have varying legal definitions of what constitutes stalking. The definition I'm most familiar with is this: a person who illegally follows and watches someone over a period of time. This is Marinette. This means she is a stalker. 2: There is literally the statue scene where Marinette sniffs him and says, "It even smells like Adrien," to which Adrien is clearly shown to be weirded out. During season 3, Adrien is shown to be clearly smitten by Ladybug, and even into season 4, to the point where his girlfriend breaks up with him. Then, in season 5, Adrien suddenly admits in one episode that he liked Marinette since the statue incident. Coincidentally, this was the scene where people really began to think about the fact that Marinette was a stalker. This scene is pretty infamous, and two seasons later, it just so happens to coincide with Adrien realizing he's in love with Marinette. Two seasons later, mind you, this man was still absolutely smitten with Ladybug, to the point of ditching his girlfriend. Then, when she broke up with him, he immediately went back to pursuing Ladybug (and yes, I know she's Marinette, but he didn’t know that). There’s literally a scene where Alex says, “She knows everything about Adrien. Kinda creepy, right?” and Rose responds, “I think it’s romantic.” Not to mention the time Marinette tried to break into Adrien's house and was stopped by a firefighter. She explained herself, and the firefighter let her go because of "love." (Also, I didn't realize I was arguing with the same person in two different comments. I stg I am not targeting you, bro.)
idk why they even made mari a stalker, it wasn't used as a proper flaw because it was treated like it was quirky, it wasn't funny and it didn't teach any lesson besides from "stalking your crush is ok" which is... interesting but obviously unhealthy
@dangerbuffrockywell although she does not succeed specifically when she does creepy thing it still sends the message Is it okay because she is never held accountable for some of the really bad things she does to get them in a relationship
@dangerbuffrocky because she didn't get punished for it or barely even reprimanded other than like 2 times alix calls her a weirdo which is seen more as a joke, personally it didn't teach me it but thats mostly because i already knew it was weird as a kid but kids are stupid they'll see mari stalk someone and see the show treat it as a silly trait and internalize it, kids shows need to be careful with this type of stuff because kids aren't fully development mentally and will take these lessons to heart
@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel I only half agree with you yes It is important for children's media to be very careful about certain morals It has but most kids are not stupid and can think for themselves
I think the main issue with the stalker thing isn’t Mari herself, but the writers. Marinette’s tendencies with Adrien feel like grown men over exaggerating a teenage girl’s crush, which is annoying. I just tend to overlook her stalker behavior because while it’s bad, it’s not her whole character. She has a lot of good going for her that I think the fandom tends to neglect due to her more non ideal behavior. That’s just my opinion though :3 Great Video btw!!!!!
Me too. Marinette has a personality. It's not just her being a stalker. Most of the fandom tends to ignore this, only focusing on the bad aspects of the character.
true, Adrien and Marinette are both not perfect characters, but the fandom tends to magnify Marinette's flaws too much. I never took it seriously simply because the show doesn't. It doesn't play any role in the plot or her personality whatsoever
Maybe you should've included the special's especially Shanghai where she tricks her parent's and goes to Shanghai and neglecting her uncles birthday only to see Adrian
Yeah, this! In the episode oni-chan, Marinette tried to break in to Adrien's house and a literal fireman helped her break in. Yes, a grown adult man helping a stalker. In reflekdoll, she tried to replace Juleka's place just so she can be ina picture with Adrien. In the episode gamer, she tried to take Max's place just so she can be in a competition with Adrien. This is a repeated behavior that she's done, it's not a coincidince anymore
@@Mxtsukii0209 In reflex doll it was Marinette's friends who encouraged her and she apologized even though it wasn't her fault and let's be real if a model is afraid of cameras then the latter has no interest And if you use the example of max then talk about the bad behavior of the class which puts max's depression on Marinette's back when she is just better. She has the right to use his skills as he sees fit even to be closer to Adrien
Let me answer the title the best I can The writers wanted to make an clumsy over-reactive quirky love-struck protagonist and yet wanted some comic-relief out of her character but in the process they made her do some things that cannot and should not be considered as comic-relief like making Adrian's daily schedule chart (it's one thing to know your friend's daily routine and another to go out of your way to make a dedicated schedule chart of said friend ), stealing his phone (now that's a straight up crime), sabotaging kagami (for which she never apologized to her), breaking into his room (look another crime), sniffing his pillow (that's just obsessively creepy), kissing what she thought was his statue (I know she wasn't successful but she would have been if it actually was a statue which is still obsessively creepy), wasting her parents' money (what they were saving for her to connect to her roots) just to stalk Adrian to a different continent (yes I know she lost her miraculous but did she ever realised that maybe she shouldn't have wasted her parents' hard earned money like that? Was she ever called out on it?), I bet she would still be like that if she wasn't burdened by the responsibilities of being a guardian as she never ever realised that all those of her actions was problematic. So my conclusion is that the writers accidentally made a stalker of a protagonist and when the fandom called it out they are now doing their best to argue against it but are failing miserably (remember derision?) Thank you for your time
@@anwaransari1025 the Shanghai one annoys me the most because Marinette could’ve easily just been late to mail the gift and to try and make up for it go to Shanghai then either A) actually want to get an ingredient or B) then become aware Adrien is in the city and asked to meet up then the plot could happen the same way
Even Cristina (VA of Marinette) she made 2 videos of which scenes she didn’t like recording such as the Wax scene. I get how Thomas sees the stalker moments as comedy. When I was a teen yes I did had a few moments stalking my crush on social media but I would never go to the extreme. As an adult I have grown passed from it & I know they’ll do the same for Marinette. I do agree with the poll that I have mixed opinions on this aspect too. Like you said in S4 they do make her humanized & how S5 they did make her focus on other stuff. After the London special we do know her lying will have heavier consequences
Marinette was someone who in the first 2 seasons was awkward but relatable. Somewhat. But after season 3. No. And while her stalking is definitely a huge red flag. Her also trusting Gabriel and dooming the planet as well as lying to Adrien and the world is also a huge crimson red flag!
I liked her aswell it was funny how she acted about Adrien but breaking into his House, stealing his phone and especially following him to Shanghai was too much
Hey, i just have a question. Why do you adore Kagami and Felix so much. I completely understand your hatred for Marinette, but I just need to know why you prefer those two, who are arguably worse than her in some people's opinions.
Im surprised you didn’t mention just how much Marinette sabotages the relationships of Adrien’s friends. Namely, Lila when they were friends for a brief period
@lasseehrenreich5502 true but it was still overboard of her to follow Adrien home when Lila hitched a ride with him. Especially since this point in the story Tikki insisted Adrien knew Lila was a liar and wouldn't buy her fables. That's not even mentioning her sabotaging his relationship with Kagami. A girl who did NOTHING wrong
@@MyChrysalis true her stalker tendency can be really exaggerated and for some reason a firefighter thought it was important enough to borrow his ladder also she was quiet mean to Kagami at first but she apologized for it when she realized that Error of her way and how did she sabotaging Adrien and Kagami relationship the way I remember it was because Adrian couldn't be honest to her because of his secret Identity ?
Exactly, at least have her learn that it’s wrong and to learn from it. Try to actually get to know him as a friend, stop putting him on a pedestal, and learn if she actually likes him or just the idea of him.
Firstly, she isn't a stalker, because stalking requires the victim to feel harassed. She is instead obsessive and sometimes oversteps boundaries, but she ultimately fails to succeed in her convoluted plans. That is how she learnt to let go and eventually mellowed out.
@@mangamouse520 But she does know him as a friend, and even encouraged him to confront his father. She doesn't place him on a pedestal; she learns from her interactions with him and even stops trying to pursue him when she realises her burden as Guardian.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 She broke into his house she followed him to a whole different continent that's stalking or even worse harassment the person doesn't have to know their being stalked to be stalked like huh?
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440everyone thought Marinette was good friend and character until like she actually was stalking or "obsessive" it's not like-able when most of the stuff she did she should be in jail for half of her fandom stopped routing for them being together because she literally doing Illegal stuff especially when she cried because she couldn't break in his house that's not innocent behavior it's creepy
Okay so -she sneaks into Adrien’s house multiple times -memorized his hole schedule -sniffed his pillow and recognized his scent -followed him and goes full on yandere due to Lila trying to get close to him -destroyed lila’s chance with Adrien while she was in ladybug form even though Lila didn’t do anything wrong or put Adrien in danger -rumbles through his garbage (like in “dark Cupid”) -and does all of that without suffering any consequences and is being normalized So is mari a stalker… ABSOLUTELY!!!
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 oh suer she have followed him creeper lots of times but I literally asked how many times She has broken into his room sorry if my English is bad
RAINN has also defined stalking as: “…pattern of unwanted and repeated contact, harassment, or attention that causes a reasonable person to feel fear.” Her stalker behavior wouldn’t be as bad if they treated it like the flaw it is, instead of normalizing it and using it as PROOF that her “love” is “true”. This show is aimed at children, and younger people are less equipped to understanding nuance and separating fiction from reality. Because of this, at least one person (child) admitted to copying Mari’s behavior BECAUSE of how it was treated in the show. I don’t doubt countless other audience members thought the same too. Then she just learns OFFSCREEN that her behavior is not okay. Imagine how impactful it would’ve been if we saw her actually put in the work to be better, and I wouldn’t expect her to unlearn that behavior in one day, especially when it’s tied to her “trauma”. That was lazy writing. You can’t “love” someone and not respect them. Mari (through this behavior) have shown time and time again that she does not respect Adrien as a person. She does not respect his space (breaking into his room, sniffing his pillow), his boundaries (trying to control his relationship with Kagami, followed him to another continent) and his property (stole his phone, tampered with it). We actually see in season 5 that Adrien generally looks concerned/frighten when he learns of just ONE of the behaviors Mari has done, so this supports the idea that Adrien would be truly uncomfortable (to put it mildly) if he learned of everything. Her age and “trauma” does not justify this. If anything, those are reasons to really hammer home that her behavior is NOT OKAY. I was hesitating about whether to put this comment in past or present tense, but considering her seemingly similar behavior in the season 6 leaks, I’m keeping it in present tense. I LIKE Miraculous. I LIKE Marinette. I LOVE romantic comedies. Her behavior is why I don’t ship them in canon. It feels dirty to describe her feelings as “love”. I want to see the show do better, so this shortcoming makes it difficult to watch.
Alya in the season 6 leaks seems to be calling her out for it not being okay so let's hope the Show hold accountable for that instead of doing something stupid like the girl Adrian runs with turns out to be evil
@@PastelTsuki817 you haven't seen it yet are you talking about on the trailer ? where it turns out she's spying on Adrian along with the girl He's running
@lasseehrenreich5502 i cant believe i am saying this but at least this time theyre a couple,if they use this scene as trust issues between them and adrien confronts her about it i would be honestly impressed by the writers
@@MCLoverTilltheend I I doubt how much they are willing to address Marinette's flaws but I hope you're right and don't tune out you something as stupid as the running girl is evil or something like that sorry if my English was bad
Yeah I liked how in the Diamond episode she did say she wasn’t even looking into his schedule anymore. Since she had been busy but I do blame Alya for it a lot. However it did give us the Felinette dance & more moments from them
If derision was there to just explain why mari has trouble talking to guys she likes and saying "I love you" it would've been fine BUT like you and everyone has said the episode retcons so much. Why is Mari ok hanging with Kim? And then yes it trying to justify her stalking, knowing his entire calendar. Whit better writing it could have been really good uncomfortable episode
Marinette suppressed her memories of that traumatic incident, which is why she doesn't have any problems while hanging around with Kim. Also, the episode elucidated her obsessiveness and her need to know everything about someone in order to never be betrayed in such a manner again.
Ok hear me out. The wax statue scene COULD have been good. I think we can all agree it is weird and creepy as it is but its confirmed that it is the point where adrien first fell for marinette. It could have been great if instead of her sniffing him and playing out a wax love story?? She could have said something about how she does love him but is too scared to confess, leading to adrien figuring it out. This isnt perfect but something like it could make the scene so much better and also explain why adrien likes her due to this, as it lets him see her true self for once! This is not what happened but if it was I'd say the scene could have been regarded as one of the best, not one of the worst. Thanks for reading 😊😊
@@ciaranfinnegan4897 That statue scene displayed how Marinette was role-playing to express her affection for Adrien. You may consider it creepy, but many girls also act in similar ways around something that reminds them of their crushes.
Some girls, definitely not 'many'. I don't think that confessing to a picture on your phone or a t-shirt is anything regular, no... And I sure don't think it's a girl thing. Simply a human thing.@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440
Bro she is definitely a stalker why do people defend her -she broke into his house several times -She stole his phone -she went to another country/continent for him -She knows his schedule from the back of her head without anyone helping her -she knows what he likes without him telling her
But minus all of the stalker stuff she is a nice person… she been putting all the blame on herself and also been saving the world. And also the only reason why she became a guardian is for master fu. And in the London special she “I should’ve made the wish” and Natalie saids “and what would you have sacrificed?” And she said herself and yeah she does need therapy BADLY…
@@mayotango1317 I mean, there is that new theory on why Master Fu chose children, and it makes sense lol. Ik the writers didn't think that much of it, but it still makes a nice head cannon and adds more depth to Master Fu.
You made me change a lot of things in my view of Marinette but... I still dislike her quite a bit, just like you said, the negative things overshadow the positive ones and Derision justifying them doesn't help at all, oh and by the way, in the season 6 trailer Marinette is a stalker again so... I don't think the conclusion will age very well, unless they make an episode where they show her change and it's not just words. And this has nothing to do with it, but Marinette from the movie will always be the best, maybe competing with Shadybug, but there is something about her redemption that I don't like.
Yeah Movie Marinette was honestly way better than Show Marinette at least in the movie she wasn't stalking Adrien and didn't treat Chat Noir like trash like what she did in the show which honestly made me happy 😊 Movie Marinette = Love her 😍 such a badass 😎 Show Marinette = Absolutely Hate Her 😒💢
@@mangamouse520 She only broke into his room to give him a present, not harass him. Following him to another country demonstrates her obsessive nature, which isn't the same as stalking him.
@@mangamouse520 Being a stalker requires an intent to threaten the person or make them feel unsafe. This is exactly what Marinette has going for her right now.
I'm still wondering what was the purpose of adding those stalkery-like traits in Marinette. Because it's "funny" for the creator? Because he thinks that's how teenage girls behave when they have a crush? I genuinely have no idea, cause both of those reasons are very wrong. Just... why?
Exactly, why? First it’s treated as a joke, and now she’s given this obviously last minute thrown in backstory reason on why she must stalk, which is weird considering she didn’t stalk Luka. She can’t get to know him as a person to know if he’s a good person, she just has to stalk him I guess
Yeah it’s treated as a joke like how anime is but Thomas really doesn’t know teenagers. Since he sees her as his child that can do no wrong. However compared seeing her in the movie & reading the manga they do make her act like a actual girl & with no stalking/cringe moments
Yes. I don't think I even need to watch this video, watch like three random episodes and you’ll 100% catch Marinette doing something obsessive. She lied to her parents, chased Adrien to China, and stalked him using a single photo he posted. She knows his measurements. She made birthday presents for 35 of his next birthdays. She has pictures of him all over her room. She knows his schedule for the entire year. She has detailed fantasies about him. Not to mention the whole statue thing in Season 3, Episode 12 (The Puppeteer 2)
I wouldn't say having photos of Adrian all over her room is that bad, especially considering everything else she has. It would've been better if she only has official photos though, stuff like ones from magazines or photo cards that fans can buy (at least in idol culture, photo albums of idols are sold to fans but Adrian is only a model so idk if it's the same). Where the problem is would be if Marinette has photos of Adrian that she takes without his consent
‘It’s complicated’ Also Marinette: - breaks into Adrien’s house on multiple occasions - follows him around without his knowledge - makes an entire arrangement of presents for every year for his birthday - smells things to get his ‘scent’ - interferes with his personal relationships to make herself more favorable - learns his entire schedule to stalk him some more - plans an entire life and future with him before even confirming whether or not he’d be okay with it - gets her friends in on her stalkerish behavior to help her stalk him - collects items that Adrien has touched simply because he touched them (I think.) - has a victim complex that makes her justify her creepy behavior towards Adrien - sniffs and kisses a ‘wax statue’ that is ACTUALLY Adrien which is creepy in it of itself, but along with that she actually SA’d him there even though nobody talks about it for some reason - super possessive of him even when they’re not together -is absolutely obsessed with a guy that considered her to be ‘just a friend’ for several seasons. So.. yes - Marinette is a stalker. Her backstory is unfortunate but also just poorly written imo, more of an excuse than a reason.
@@DuckFortress1 I’m sorry if you thought the thumbnail was misleading or incorrect. I can definitely see where you’re coming from and those are all very valid points. I mainly made the thumbnail like that to avoid any Marinette fans from hating or harassing me. I hope that this explains a few things.
@@ACriticalRetrospective OH! No, no that’s not an attack on you at all man, my bad I was just trying getting my 2 cents in. I accidentally commented twice but I do understand why you did that with the thumbnail. I’m not mad at you at all and no I don’t think the thumbnail was misleading - it actually makes sense. You’re right on that - it IS complicated. It doesn’t make her not a stalker but she’s definitely complex in a way.
@@DuckFortress1 It’s okay. I appreciate it when people share their thoughts with me without worrying about censoring themselves, it shows that they feel that this channel is a safe space for healthy discourse, which makes me feel like I’ve done my job well. Thanks for clarifying though. I’m glad to hear that I didn’t actually offend you. 👍
Season 3 Marinette was... definitely something. Whilst breaking into someone's house and following them to a whole other country is definitely a very weird thing to do, Adrien never felt harassed by her behaviour at all and she didn't do it with the intention of making him feel uncomfortable. She just had a crush that got a bit too obsessive at times imo. 😅 The only time Adrien felt uncomfortable by her behaviour was in that one scene in Puppeteer 2 and kissing a statue is definitely a very weird thing to do. However, she didn't do it with the intention of making him uncomfortable because she didn't KNOW it was him. That's why she was never considered a stalker imo, but she was kind of obsessive. But in season 4 and 5, her character definitely got a lot better! She stopped with her convoluted plans to win over Adrien and just focused on being his friend, in the hopes of them becoming something more one day. And it was very cute to watch and I definitely enjoyed the ship more in seasons 4 and 5 lol. Also I love what you said about the end about how she's complicated but then again we're all a but complicated. Our flaws don't make us a horrible person. Just like how Marinette isn't an awful person. I also love how you pointed out her good traits at the end of the video. It's important to not forget about those. Keep up the good work!!!!
Marinette is a stalker. She's broken into Adrien's home many times without him knowing, she knows his schedule from the back of her hand, she follows him and hides behind bins, and is always easedropping onto his conversations with other girls. She's a nice girl and all but she has stalked Adrien.
It's fascinating as a character flaw because it's so exaggerated and dismissed in the story that you could almost argue it's not meant to be canon and it's just a writing mistake. You can easily imagine an alternate version of the show where Marinette's just a bit clumsy and awkward about her crush. But at the same time I don't blame people who take this behaviour at face value because yeahhhhh the stalking is really overplayed
Personally I’m one of the ppl who directly dislike her, not only because of her stalker-ish tendencies but other aspects of her personality too. Recently I was watching season 4, the episode “crocoduel” and I was speechless at her behavior towards Luka. I completely understand that she may feel awkward since they had broke up recently and she felt really bad for him, but she literally tried to convince Juleka( HIS OWN SISTER ) to tell Luka NOT to go to HIS OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY?! JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS NERVOUS?! That episode is just one of the MANY that highlight her weird behavior, and also a bit self-centered, like in the episode where Juleka and Adrien were supposed to model together, but Marinette decided to leave Juleka out ( and leave her alone in her house ) to model with Adrien. I get that she likes him, but Juleka was clearly sad and insecure and she ( and Alya ) made it all about herself.
Yeah tbh my issue with Marinette is she never gets called out for this behaviour, I would be fine it's framed as a charecter flaw,but it doesn't matter if the audience can acknowledge it outside the show when actual charecters don't treat it as much, Marinette can do anything and she would be framed as in the right
15:40 The small Harumi picture in the upper right corner got me so bad. CR can’t go one video without mentioning her lmfao. It’s okay tho. I love Harumi too. Edit: In all seriousness this was a great video and basically reflected my feelings on Marinette each season. Overall I don’t really like her but I do appreciate a lot of the stuff season 4 did with her. I still hate the writers for trying to justify her stalker tendencies with that god awful episode in Season 5.
Sometimes people need the same lesson more than once - most people don't seem to understand that I'm glad you do. And also to be fair even though I agree season 2 is probably best for her character not to be a creep it's not perfect in Gigantitan. She prevents Adrian's bodyguard from picking him up so she can be the savior for their romance and frame him so he gets a lot of parking tickets which I assume are pretty expensive even though he just ignored them. Personally I think that is a really bad thing to do.
I had a coworker who I was chill with and eventually we realized we both liked miraculous but somehow the convo went to how marinette is about adrien and she vehemently denied that marinette’s behavior is stalking, just “exaggerated because it’s a cartoon” and changed the topic when i pointed out there are plenty of extremely healthy realistic relationships and now whenever I see this topic i think about her because wdym it didn’t sit weird that she never got any real consequences for actually stalking a person like bro? sure maybe if every relationship was treated like that but even then I’d just be saying the whole show is questionable for that.
She is undeniably a stalker, and sadly her influence affected me more than it should cuz as a kid (I was watching since season 1 was just being released) I thought it wasn't a bad thing to do, oh boy did that not age well
Y'all misunderstand me when I said I'm the #1 Marinette Slanderer. It's not because of her being a bad character that had the universe breaking its back to proof she's the most noble human in existence. No nooo, that's not the main reason. It's because she's clearly a self-insert for Thomas. It wasn't unusual for writers to have their characters to be their self-insert because that's where their base understanding and how they want the audience to see the world come from. Slowly but surely, they will become their own character along the way and have their own personality. Unfortunately, Astruc is a narcissist. And what does a narcissist do? Make it ALL about themselves. Doesn't that sound familiar to you? He doesn't want Marinette to be her own character (growing up). Yes, the Marinette you're staring at is not Marinette anymore. She died at the end of S2 when Astruc took over. That's Marisue now. He wore her like a skinwalker to spout these nonsense cringe to us and harmful messages to children because HE'S THE GOD. That's why I'm side-eyeing the Marinette Stans on the sidelines when they said, "she's 14!1!1!". That's a middle-aged man in her skin. No sane 14 yo would act like that. Y'all defending a 50 yo man who forgot to act like a 14 yo "teehee" school girl.
26:00 yah you did. You absolutely achieved in giving it a balanced view. - Marinette gets a lot of intense hate, I think that's just due to the show managing her flaws badly
One thing I don’t like about Miraculous Ladybug is the fact that it screwed up my humour for the longest time, since I was a kid at the time of watching and the show never portrayed Marinette in the wrong when it came to her behaviour. It made me find characters obsessing over other characters funny, which is embarrassing looking back on. I know that could just be me and my old naivety and I have never condoned stalking in my life, but it still f*cked up my humour until I realised how bad it was. Sorry for this comment I just wanted to ramble.
Same. It had me rooting for her and laughing whenever she intruded on Adrien’s life far more than what was appropriate. Normally I would’ve recognized it was stalking but I didn’t because the show played it for laughs.
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian she technically isn't stalking him when she doesn't even know he lives with Adrian not that I am defending her bad behavior
Mari is a stalker but i can speak from experience as a current victim of stalking, trust me when i say shes not half as problematic as a real stalker lmfao like im being full on controlled by it ect ect but adrien isn’t at all. Id rather have a mari than the dude following me lol
she is/was 100% a stalker because season 1 makes her a example of an obsessed celebrity fan girl and the "jokes" about her knowledge about Adrienne isn't that cartoony ,absurd and aren't that unrealistic look at what real fans do it's terrifying
so probably the most horrible thing marinette can do to chloe was to use her superhero persona to say she's impossible for her to be a superhero there is a big difference to how you can affect other people, marinette is a civilian so if chloe get "you can't be a hero" speech from her chloe doesn't care or just ignore in a way she's a civilian someone she as the same level as her but if ladybug do that ofc there is a big power and class difference she is the hero she is the one that save everyone everyday ofc that hit Hard i can understand marinette being young but like some dead uncle said "with great power come great responsibility" so yeah a superhero can't be bias to begin with and that's a thing that i like in marinette a flaw she indirectly caused everything that happen from season 3 onward with her stupid decision and bias between character but why her karma didn't got to her and now chloes is in new york that's anger me i love a flawed portagonist sure but eh also yeah the whole bad thing that she did i'm sorry adrien have to know have to show her what real consequences are Adrien need to put limit barrier marinette need karma that's it and i can like her more when she understand her wrong
Why does everyone ignore what she did to Chat Noir in Ephemeral? She was prepared to manipulate and lie to him about revealing their identities together, just to get Su-han off her back and is not only tricking Chat Noir to give up his identity under false pretenses but to someone, that as far she knows, he's never met. That's just sick, especially when she could've just told Chat the truth from the beginning about Su-han and how he wants to know his identity instead of taking advantage of his trust. Ah, but then again, when has she actually told Chat anything?
The show normilzes Marinette behavior to the younger audience and when Cat noir keeps flirting with ladybug even when she says no. It sends the wrong message to kids
I hated the season 5 retcon with Dark Humor to justify it. She was just a normal 13 year old girl in love, being a cartoon the classic social media stalking was exaggerated but it worked well, I would have preferred her to learn that it was wrong to violate Adrien's privacy like this and stop
I mean I understand making a character have a crush and making a mistake like stealing a phone cause hi-jicks but my problem is that they made her crush into almost an obession and aside from a few small comments, no one in the show is calling her out for it.
Yeah, I can for the most part relate to her charecter in season one,in that case I really did feel like she panicked in that moment which led to her stealing the phone then was too embarrassed to tell Adrien,but I just don't like the way they wrote her in season three it really did feel too obsessive,breaking and entering someone's else twice and even having a firefighter help her all so to what?prevent Lila from lying to Adrien when he already knows she's a liar,it really did feel like Tikki was the only one who kept consistently calling her out for these things. I can't even hate Marinette for it because it's not her fault she was written to be this way.
@ishashifar Mari even has his whole schedule for the past several years for no reason 😑 with Alya only saying "you are majorly crazy girl" like it was cute like girl it is not
If we talk worse episodes in season 5 we need to include Evolution. Deflagration could have worked if it was during season 1-2 (most prominently around Dark Cupid). But the amount of stuff Evolution destroyed is insane: Kuro Neko, Feast, Furious Fu, the set up of the wish, Gabriels intentions, nearly everything Wais and Saas said about Kwamis, introducing yet another time loop (after Time tagger and Cat Blanc introduced one as well and Fu giving the rabbit miraculous most likely away to Alixs dad before coming to Paris on behalf of Bunnix). Also the pacing being literally the same day as Strike back is lunatic. Because the first thing I would do with the power of time resets is learning enough informations to effectively use them. Also to find and stop Felix as he knows who you are and could easily over power you as you won’t be transformed all the time. Season 1 episode 6 (Alixs transformation), Cat Blanc, Time tagger and Evolution broke miraculous in ways you can only fix by removing Alix from this plane of existence (let her chill in Shanghai with the Kwami of the underworld). Also the Paris special introduced a whole other layer of problems. Alternative dimensions within a show that has the concept of quantum mechanics (as this is how time operates in the show) is insanity. The only reason Bunnix or Gabriel don’t break the show wide open is because of fear of causing time to end when the entire show is one large loop. This means its a cheap explanation for plot convenience. And that is so sad to see. Because if we ignore Marinettes Mary Sue behavior for most of the show and Adrien being a glorified Damsel in distress the show is actually insanely good. If only time would work like in Arcane the show would be near perfect. And that hurts so bad
I just HATE how they used some backstory to excuse Marinette being a stalker they could at least use it to explain in and in that episode and the continuing ones have her realise her unhealthy behaviour and try to change it.
Exactly they also mentioned it in that same episode that backstory cannot excuse actions,Derision honestly felt like a last minute addition there was no foreshadowing about the context,it should've been a thing in around s3 and have her slowly realize her behaviour is wrong and make her try to change,imo it would've made for a scene where she could say she doesn't need to do any of that because she trusts Adrien wholeheartedly not to hurt her or something like that and would have made for better charecter growth.
Know I feel bad for Christian for voicing her, I saw a video that said she is his favorite character and after every season, they really ruined marinette from the beging
I decided to change it when I realised it was outdated by saying “Subscribe for videos every 1-3 weeks, which obviously isn’t the case. 😅” I’ll take any chance I get to put Harumi-related things on my channel. 🤣
Okay imagine a guy did all that Mari did like it’s soo creepy imagine Mari was an idol/model and Adrien stole her phone,broke into her house, made a chart of her schedule and tried to destroy her relationships. It’s bad to begin with and a lot of what I just said are crimes so don’t give me “oH ThE lEgAl DeFIniTiOn of StAlkIng Is tHe pErSOn FeElS HaRrAssed” like it’s a crime just because he doesn’t know doesn’t mean it’s not stalking and what’s worse the creators treat it like a gag like no it’s not okay even if it’s treated as a joke. Don’t normalize stalking models, idols or even friends
I apologise if the video came across like that. I promise that I wasn't trying to delegitimise how horrifying her actions truly are. More than anything, I wanted the video to be a balanced critique, and claimed towards the end that Marinette was a stalker, but technically isn't anymore as of Season 5. I was afraid of making either side angry with me, and tried my best to appease both of them to reach a happy medium. Thank you for your input regardless.
@@ACriticalRetrospective Frankly I feel Marinette is much worse in season 4, when her freak control tendencies and stubbornness increase as does her mistreatment with Chat Noir.
I think she is, but I think they made at least some explaination to it. Also she always cared for Adrian, not just stalked him. I think if Adrien wasn't so clueless, she wouldn't have gone that far. And I think it's good that she s not a perfect main character as in a fairytale.
I agree that Marinette is a stalker but also Cat Noir has problematic behaviour regarding Ladybug throughout the series. So please can you make a similar video for Cat Noir regarding him being too pushy when persusing Ladybug?
Oh yeah definitely,that is also a problem I don't see a lot of people address in the fandom he was also like that, I guess the minor difference between those cases is Ladybug firmly called him out for doing that everytime he called her a nickname she wasn't comfortable with or kept pushing his feelings on her till he had to stop in season 4 and started to respect her boundaries a lot more,while Marinette never had anyone to do that for her,but a lot of people don't want to acknowledge they're both like that in a way, they're both freaks when it comes to eachother.
I would say that at the very least, while lovesick, Marinette is a step forward from characters like panini from chowder, the kanker sisters from ed, edd and eddy, tootie from the fairly odd parents, pucca from the series of the same name and Dijonay from the proud family. All of these ones while more daring and bashful, have no concept of morals and boundaries (especially personal space) around them.
I would argue pannini is slighlty better if only because she was never intended to be a role model but I also would argue that's what make her worse because it's nothing but a joke . These are some dark time we live in
Honestly, I never saw Marinette as a role model really @@panpanmonday3585. I mean, even other animated teenage/young girls did some shady things. Here's the list: Twilight sparkle: unintentionally brainwashed an entire town with the goal of bringing a lesson report to Celestia Luz Noceda: used living poisonous animals in lessons and planned to light up explosives in class Anne Boonchuy: got into various troubles both on earth and amphibia including physically attacking her found family and ditching school. Wordgirl: keeping her identity a secret and literally airing a threatening broadcast to all the town's villains. Tulip Olsen: her whole journey on the infinity train was basically telling her "everyone has problems and yours aren't bigger than others". Hilda: lied to and kept secrets from her mother and can be quite rude at times. Robyn Goodfellowe: similar to Hilda. Coraline Jones: similar to the last two plus ungrateful. None of them are evil but all had a lot of room to grow.
It might be because Marinette is class representative (or was because s5) part of the duties as class rep includes organizing and planning activities for the class. In order for this to be possible, the rep must be aware of the extracurricular schedule of their classmates. As vice president, which is Alya in this case. she is also privy to this information. So, that or due to proximity, students are often aware of the schedule of their fellow class members.
It looks like no one is intrested in their crush and partners any more and if you dont give shit is some sort of so called healthy trend 😂 When you want someone it does not look like you are not intrested😅
Who wants to rewrite Miraculous. The whole show is a mess and it needs to be cleaned and expanded to be at least for 2-3 years instead of one year only across 6 seasons. I know writing a show is hard and it’s not like I can do better, but something is off about it and the characters are victims of bad writing. Also Marinette should have a Chinese middle name as well as her Hyphenated last name.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440it kind of is a mess, especially season five they tried to use four seasons with few episodes that actually progressed the plot and had charecters development they had in an episode be regressed just for the sake of another episode,minimal development of the love square till mid season 4,and then crammed all the plot developments into season 5 without proper buildup or room to breathe,and the creator being allergic to taking any constructive criticism. Your statement can apply in both ways just because you enjoyed a show does not mean it's immune to obvious flaws.
@@ishashifar I don't see how it's a mess. The previous seasons provided an excellent build-up to the fifth one, and the show had transitioned from an episodic to a serialised format in the fourth season. The character development was also consistent throughout, with characters becoming more endearing and resilient over time. The love square remained consistent in the first three seasons because of the episodic format, but you're ignoring the development of the original four ships as well. The plot progression in season 5 was quite smooth and easy to follow, especially considering how it relied on concepts and character arcs it introduced in the previous season. Astruc's decision to not listen to constructive criticism is not a good look, but it's ultimately his show and he was capable of presenting an excellent story. Yes, you could apply my statement in the converse, but what really matters is how you analyse and interpret the story and its execution. I really didn't discover any pressing problems with the narrative, so I stand by my opinion. I respect yours as well.
Ok so what if Marinette was boy?You think it would be creepy if she behaved like that right?I think Astruc has problems writting his daughter as human being or any girls characters.Layla is just as Marinette Mary Sue but as villain,Chloe is just forced to be rich brat without reason,Rosa is too optimistic and Juleka is opposite,Alya is just supporter,Marinette mom is nothing more then her mom and I can go and go...They have all potential but is wasted by one stupid reason,I wouldnt mind if Marinette was stalking if she would reflect her mistakes.
I agree with your point about Marinette being a stolker and having to learn her lesson, but not your point about female characters (even though I hate astruc). Many characters in miraculous are specifically made to refer to a type of person not just females, like Rose is too optimistic, there is Kim who is the brainless jock, Max who is the nerd, etc. Then some characters are or have become more or less complex but I don't think there is a gender issue
I started to dislike Marinette when she cried to a fireman because she couldn't break into his house shes creepy she even followed him to a whole different continent like her crush is worse than Chloe's Marinette wasn't supposed to be this creepy like in general ladybug is a semi good character Marinette in the movie were they redid everything was amazing she wasn't creepy she had a crush she confessed and they ended up together great i like her more than the show Marinette bc Marinette is a stalker and make me uncomfortable and scared for Adrian ladybug or not
I like and dislike about Marinette but it was due to the writers writing. I like how she is but i don't like it when she stutter around Adrien which that is annoying and i don't like her stalker behavior and among other things that I'm not going to say. But I do wish she was written better is all.
The real question is how Adrien would react to Marinette being a stalker. Honestly? Considering how he treated Wayhem, I don't think he's that concerned with stalkers. He befriended Wayhem despite him also being something of a stalker, and that was when Wayhem was a stranger. Wayhem isn't a bad dude, which is why Adrien didn't mind when he went too far... the same is true of Marinette. Marinette isn't a bad person, and Adrien knows that. Moreover, instead of being a stranger like Wayhem that Adrien gives the benefit of the doubt, Marinette is his friend - one of his first ones. He is shown to greatly value Marinette at multiple points. So... the question is, would Adrien date a crazy stalker if that stalker was Marinette? My answer is that he matches her freak. He'd 100% date a stalker. Especially if that stalker was Marinette, who he greatly respects. Is this... a good thing? Maybe not! But my conclusion is that he wouldn't write her off for it. I honestly think it could be an interesting dark romance, but in a kids show without showing any indication that it recognizes that stalking is wrong? Maybe not the best thing to go with 😅. If written by a good writer, I could see it being compelling. I love the idea of Marinette and Adrien "matching each others freak" so to speak. Everyone looks at them like they're a sickening sweet trainwreck they can't look away from. That's my ideal Marinette and Adrien dynamic. But that's my personal taste. From an objective point of view, I don't know if kids could handle the compexity of such a relationship, and I also don't think they intended the couple to be this way, based on the framing of the two. It's definitely a writing problem 😅.
It is because of this silly show that many of her fans were expelled from school or went to jail for imitating Marinette's "peculiar and charming" behavior. For that she deserves to be criticized (both off and on the show), as being in her ivory tower for so long made Marinette do questionable things as she thought it was the right thing to do. Cof Season 5 finale cof Heck, even Marinette make Chloe continue to be with her obviously abusive, loveless mother was a mistake and it ruined the blonde's life to continue to see her mother as a role model instead of pushing her away. And now, thank to Marinette, Adrien think that his father is a hero and a good man. So YES, Marinette is a stalker and a bad human being. The show needs someone to tell her his truths, just like Quagmire told Brian Griffin what he deserved.
family guy is nonsense, all the characters in the series are terrible people so Quagmire suddenly deciding he wasn't good with Brian I never understood. Marinette is not a bad person and I find it hard to believe that many of her fans imitated her, however I would have liked her to learn that stalking was wrong instead of being justified on this I agree
@lamichevolediquartiere5954 Dude, the fact that the Marinette stands defend her from anything, say something. And yes, some fangirls mimicked that stalker behavior as they thought it was seen as funny and that many her friends would support, as the show does. Big mistake. "If she can do it, why can't I?" That's the mentality of a naïve, impressionable child.
@mayotango1317 As a French person I ask where you get this information from. The school system and children in France have always been shaky. Marinette has nothing to do with it.
honestly I despise her since season 3! And everyight be crying she lost miraculouses but me? I was f cheering in happiness! I was bullied through all elementary school (it's so called in the country where I lie), have boyfriend right now and did I stalked him or anyone?? Nope! I did not! It's beyond sick explanations and that makes Luka look like a joke
@@jamy_pajamylol yeah,in all fairness the show's initial crushes all happened that quickly,Cat Noir fell in love with Ladybug just when he saw her defeat a villain for the first time.
What’s Critical Retrospective more obsessed with?
Miraculous Ladybug
Ace Attorney
Harumi
Let me know below(welcome back again mate)
Harumi works into his videos even when they have nothing to do with her not that I'm complaining i could list to gosh about her awesome to the sun explode
A video essay of Franziska Von Karma would be nice. There’s been some re-evaluation on her character as of late.
@@redballoon9007 I was considering ranking all the Ace Attorney prosecutors at some point. That’ll give me a chance to talk about her.
Lowkey Harumi
Actually Marinette behavior in derision is a normal behavior. Some people who have very traumatizing experiences will pretend nothing is wrong and even refused to accept the trauma. However that causes the person to fight their own mind. And if it isn’t properly dealt with a major snap happens and the brain forcibly takes over. It basically says YOU WILL DEAL WITH IT! And when a person has their brain takes over when they are desperate to ignore it they become in a panic state. And there are signs that shows Marinette is a person that sufferes this. In fact it can be misinterpreted for stalking. That one scene in the episode where Marinette says this: “I will never love anyone again unless I know everything about them.”
Nothing complicated about it. If you:
- Break into your victims house
- Know their entire schedule without having had it provided to you
- Steal his phone
- STALK HIM to another COUNTRY/CONTINENT
Among many many other things... Then yes, you are most definitely a stalker.
She did steal his phone
Stalking requires the victim to feel harassed or in constant distress. Has Adrien ever felt that way?
@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 I see what you're saying, but hear me out. Did Adrien ever know she did that? Considering Adrien was shown being uncomfortable with the way his fans treat him, which is similar to Marinette, I see no reason other than Thomas Astruc pulling things out of thin air to justify her actions.
@@panpanmonday3585 The fact that Adrien never realised what Marinette did is exactly why she isn't a stalker. That's what I wanted to explain. Also, Marinette is more than just a fan: she's a close friend of Adrien who sees him as more than an idol. Astruc never justifies Marinette's actions; the writing portrays her convoluted plans as futile and ultimately useless. It's her kindness and affection towards Adrien that caused him to fall for her.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440
1: That doesn't mean it's not stalking because Adrien has been shown to be uncomfortable when fans pursue him. From what we are given, Adrien wouldn't like it. Also, what does that even mean? Does it mean we aren't allowed to call someone a stalker if they watch, follow, and memorize someone's schedule just because the person might like it? The term "stalker" has multiple meanings, as different countries and states have varying legal definitions of what constitutes stalking. The definition I'm most familiar with is this: a person who illegally follows and watches someone over a period of time. This is Marinette. This means she is a stalker.
2: There is literally the statue scene where Marinette sniffs him and says, "It even smells like Adrien," to which Adrien is clearly shown to be weirded out. During season 3, Adrien is shown to be clearly smitten by Ladybug, and even into season 4, to the point where his girlfriend breaks up with him. Then, in season 5, Adrien suddenly admits in one episode that he liked Marinette since the statue incident. Coincidentally, this was the scene where people really began to think about the fact that Marinette was a stalker. This scene is pretty infamous, and two seasons later, it just so happens to coincide with Adrien realizing he's in love with Marinette. Two seasons later, mind you, this man was still absolutely smitten with Ladybug, to the point of ditching his girlfriend. Then, when she broke up with him, he immediately went back to pursuing Ladybug (and yes, I know she's Marinette, but he didn’t know that).
There’s literally a scene where Alex says, “She knows everything about Adrien. Kinda creepy, right?” and Rose responds, “I think it’s romantic.” Not to mention the time Marinette tried to break into Adrien's house and was stopped by a firefighter. She explained herself, and the firefighter let her go because of "love."
(Also, I didn't realize I was arguing with the same person in two different comments. I stg I am not targeting you, bro.)
idk why they even made mari a stalker, it wasn't used as a proper flaw because it was treated like it was quirky, it wasn't funny and it didn't teach any lesson besides from "stalking your crush is ok" which is... interesting but obviously unhealthy
How did it teach that stalking your crush is okay when she didn't succeed anytime she tried anything creepy? Genuine question.
@dangerbuffrockywell although she does not succeed specifically when she does creepy thing it still sends the message Is it okay because she is never held accountable for some of the really bad things she does to get them in a relationship
@dangerbuffrocky because she didn't get punished for it or barely even reprimanded other than like 2 times alix calls her a weirdo which is seen more as a joke, personally it didn't teach me it but thats mostly because i already knew it was weird as a kid but kids are stupid they'll see mari stalk someone and see the show treat it as a silly trait and internalize it, kids shows need to be careful with this type of stuff because kids aren't fully development mentally and will take these lessons to heart
@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel I only half agree with you yes It is important for children's media to be very careful about certain morals It has but most kids are not stupid and can think for themselves
@lasseehrenreich5502 tbh yeah im being a little harsh on kids, though being taught the incorrect info will mess with young kids minds
Marinette is most definitely a stalker
in season 5 the episode it is say she No Longer know Adrian schedule So let's just hope it keeps it that way and she stops being a stalker
@lasseehrenreich5502 season 6, they showed a clip where she’s watching him with binoculars from her balcony as he’s running with someone
@@mangamouse520 yes i know but maybe the show with finally Call have out We just have to Wait and See
@@mangamouse520 thats not stalker behavior
Stalking implies that the victim feels harassed and constantly tormented. You should learn the legal definition of the word.
I think the main issue with the stalker thing isn’t Mari herself, but the writers. Marinette’s tendencies with Adrien feel like grown men over exaggerating a teenage girl’s crush, which is annoying.
I just tend to overlook her stalker behavior because while it’s bad, it’s not her whole character. She has a lot of good going for her that I think the fandom tends to neglect due to her more non ideal behavior. That’s just my opinion though :3
Great Video btw!!!!!
Thanks!
Me too. Marinette has a personality. It's not just her being a stalker. Most of the fandom tends to ignore this, only focusing on the bad aspects of the character.
I just hate how the writers did Marinette dirty with season 3. I feel like how they written her was so out of character.
true, Adrien and Marinette are both not perfect characters, but the fandom tends to magnify Marinette's flaws too much. I never took it seriously simply because the show doesn't. It doesn't play any role in the plot or her personality whatsoever
Marinette complained that Chloe never change and yet she never did either
frrrrrrrr
Maybe you should've included the special's especially Shanghai where she tricks her parent's and goes to Shanghai and neglecting her uncles birthday only to see Adrian
She got concequence
This! How can Marinette defenders ignore this
Yeah, this! In the episode oni-chan, Marinette tried to break in to Adrien's house and a literal fireman helped her break in. Yes, a grown adult man helping a stalker. In reflekdoll, she tried to replace Juleka's place just so she can be ina picture with Adrien. In the episode gamer, she tried to take Max's place just so she can be in a competition with Adrien. This is a repeated behavior that she's done, it's not a coincidince anymore
@@Mxtsukii0209 In reflex doll it was Marinette's friends who encouraged her and she apologized even though it wasn't her fault and let's be real if a model is afraid of cameras then the latter has no interest
And if you use the example of max then talk about the bad behavior of the class which puts max's depression on Marinette's back when she is just better. She has the right to use his skills as he sees fit even to be closer to Adrien
@@joeljohansson3615 In the same way that the defenders of Cat Noir minimize his behavior
Let me answer the title the best I can
The writers wanted to make an clumsy over-reactive quirky love-struck protagonist and yet wanted some comic-relief out of her character but in the process they made her do some things that cannot and should not be considered as comic-relief like making Adrian's daily schedule chart (it's one thing to know your friend's daily routine and another to go out of your way to make a dedicated schedule chart of said friend ), stealing his phone (now that's a straight up crime), sabotaging kagami (for which she never apologized to her), breaking into his room (look another crime), sniffing his pillow (that's just obsessively creepy), kissing what she thought was his statue (I know she wasn't successful but she would have been if it actually was a statue which is still obsessively creepy), wasting her parents' money (what they were saving for her to connect to her roots) just to stalk Adrian to a different continent (yes I know she lost her miraculous but did she ever realised that maybe she shouldn't have wasted her parents' hard earned money like that? Was she ever called out on it?), I bet she would still be like that if she wasn't burdened by the responsibilities of being a guardian as she never ever realised that all those of her actions was problematic. So my conclusion is that the writers accidentally made a stalker of a protagonist and when the fandom called it out they are now doing their best to argue against it but are failing miserably (remember derision?)
Thank you for your time
@@anwaransari1025 the Shanghai one annoys me the most because Marinette could’ve easily just been late to mail the gift and to try and make up for it go to Shanghai then either A) actually want to get an ingredient or B) then become aware Adrien is in the city and asked to meet up then the plot could happen the same way
Even Cristina (VA of Marinette) she made 2 videos of which scenes she didn’t like recording such as the Wax scene. I get how Thomas sees the stalker moments as comedy. When I was a teen yes I did had a few moments stalking my crush on social media but I would never go to the extreme. As an adult I have grown passed from it & I know they’ll do the same for Marinette.
I do agree with the poll that I have mixed opinions on this aspect too. Like you said in S4 they do make her humanized & how S5 they did make her focus on other stuff. After the London special we do know her lying will have heavier consequences
I hope the writer does Marinette justice. (Also, I feel bad for Cristina Vee when she had to voice over the most cringeist scenes)
Marinette was someone who in the first 2 seasons was awkward but relatable. Somewhat. But after season 3. No. And while her stalking is definitely a huge red flag. Her also trusting Gabriel and dooming the planet as well as lying to Adrien and the world is also a huge crimson red flag!
I liked her aswell
it was funny how she acted about Adrien
but breaking into his House, stealing his phone and especially following him to Shanghai was too much
@@Ivypool123Exactly!
Hey, i just have a question. Why do you adore Kagami and Felix so much. I completely understand your hatred for Marinette, but I just need to know why you prefer those two, who are arguably worse than her in some people's opinions.
Im surprised you didn’t mention just how much Marinette sabotages the relationships of Adrien’s friends. Namely, Lila when they were friends for a brief period
Yes, she may have overreacted a bit, but Lila but lied so it was probably for the Better
@@MyChrysalis That’s true!!! If I mentioned those the video would probably end up being way longer. 🤣
@lasseehrenreich5502 true but it was still overboard of her to follow Adrien home when Lila hitched a ride with him.
Especially since this point in the story Tikki insisted Adrien knew Lila was a liar and wouldn't buy her fables.
That's not even mentioning her sabotaging his relationship with Kagami. A girl who did NOTHING wrong
@@MyChrysalis true her stalker tendency can be really exaggerated and for some reason a firefighter thought it was important enough to borrow his ladder also she was quiet mean to Kagami at first but she apologized for it when she realized that Error of her way and how did she sabotaging Adrien and Kagami relationship the way I remember it was because Adrian couldn't be honest to her because of his secret Identity ?
When were those 2 friends
I'd have no issue with Marinette being a stalker if it was a flaw the writers were aware of, acknowledged, and made her face consequences for.
Exactly, at least have her learn that it’s wrong and to learn from it. Try to actually get to know him as a friend, stop putting him on a pedestal, and learn if she actually likes him or just the idea of him.
Firstly, she isn't a stalker, because stalking requires the victim to feel harassed. She is instead obsessive and sometimes oversteps boundaries, but she ultimately fails to succeed in her convoluted plans. That is how she learnt to let go and eventually mellowed out.
@@mangamouse520 But she does know him as a friend, and even encouraged him to confront his father. She doesn't place him on a pedestal; she learns from her interactions with him and even stops trying to pursue him when she realises her burden as Guardian.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 She broke into his house she followed him to a whole different continent that's stalking or even worse harassment the person doesn't have to know their being stalked to be stalked like huh?
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440everyone thought Marinette was good friend and character until like she actually was stalking or "obsessive" it's not like-able when most of the stuff she did she should be in jail for half of her fandom stopped routing for them being together because she literally doing Illegal stuff especially when she cried because she couldn't break in his house that's not innocent behavior it's creepy
Okay so
-she sneaks into Adrien’s house multiple times
-memorized his hole schedule
-sniffed his pillow and recognized his scent
-followed him and goes full on yandere due to Lila trying to get close to him
-destroyed lila’s chance with Adrien while she was in ladybug form even though Lila didn’t do anything wrong or put Adrien in danger
-rumbles through his garbage (like in “dark Cupid”)
-and does all of that without suffering any consequences and is being normalized
So is mari a stalker…
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Im being honest lila did kinda of desetve that she was lying
I remember party crasher but what other did she do it ?
-Followed him to Shanghai
@@Owell_Owl true but she didn’t do anything wrong towards mari,she just said a stupid lie just to get close to Adrien
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 oh suer she have followed him creeper lots of times but I literally asked how many times She has broken into his room sorry if my English is bad
When smelling that pillow Marinette would be smelling Camembert and Plagg's farts.
"is marinette a stalker"
YES
RAINN has also defined stalking as: “…pattern of unwanted and repeated contact, harassment, or attention that causes a reasonable person to feel fear.”
Her stalker behavior wouldn’t be as bad if they treated it like the flaw it is, instead of normalizing it and using it as PROOF that her “love” is “true”. This show is aimed at children, and younger people are less equipped to understanding nuance and separating fiction from reality. Because of this, at least one person (child) admitted to copying Mari’s behavior BECAUSE of how it was treated in the show. I don’t doubt countless other audience members thought the same too. Then she just learns OFFSCREEN that her behavior is not okay. Imagine how impactful it would’ve been if we saw her actually put in the work to be better, and I wouldn’t expect her to unlearn that behavior in one day, especially when it’s tied to her “trauma”. That was lazy writing. You can’t “love” someone and not respect them. Mari (through this behavior) have shown time and time again that she does not respect Adrien as a person. She does not respect his space (breaking into his room, sniffing his pillow), his boundaries (trying to control his relationship with Kagami, followed him to another continent) and his property (stole his phone, tampered with it).
We actually see in season 5 that Adrien generally looks concerned/frighten when he learns of just ONE of the behaviors Mari has done, so this supports the idea that Adrien would be truly uncomfortable (to put it mildly) if he learned of everything.
Her age and “trauma” does not justify this. If anything, those are reasons to really hammer home that her behavior is NOT OKAY.
I was hesitating about whether to put this comment in past or present tense, but considering her seemingly similar behavior in the season 6 leaks, I’m keeping it in present tense.
I LIKE Miraculous. I LIKE Marinette. I LOVE romantic comedies. Her behavior is why I don’t ship them in canon. It feels dirty to describe her feelings as “love”. I want to see the show do better, so this shortcoming makes it difficult to watch.
Alya in the season 6 leaks seems to be calling her out for it not being okay so let's hope the Show hold accountable for that instead of doing something stupid like the girl Adrian runs with turns out to be evil
In the early to mid seasons she was a full blown stalker but now she isn't as crazy as before
I mean in season six she’s going back into her old ways.
@@PastelTsuki817 you haven't seen it yet are you talking about on the trailer ? where it turns out she's spying on Adrian along with the girl He's running
@lasseehrenreich5502 i cant believe i am saying this but at least this time theyre a couple,if they use this scene as trust issues between them and adrien confronts her about it i would be honestly impressed by the writers
@@MCLoverTilltheend I I doubt how much they are willing to address Marinette's flaws but I hope you're right and don't tune out you something as stupid as the running girl is evil or something like that sorry if my English was bad
Yeah I liked how in the Diamond episode she did say she wasn’t even looking into his schedule anymore. Since she had been busy but I do blame Alya for it a lot. However it did give us the Felinette dance & more moments from them
Adrien should’ve been the main character, the main character we focus more on.
If derision was there to just explain why mari has trouble talking to guys she likes and saying "I love you" it would've been fine BUT like you and everyone has said the episode retcons so much. Why is Mari ok hanging with Kim? And then yes it trying to justify her stalking, knowing his entire calendar. Whit better writing it could have been really good uncomfortable episode
yes it's just really bad writing that exist only to excuse Marinette problematic behavior and demonized Chloe
Yep! That episode is such BS and it was made to make us shut up about Marinette’s stalking
Marinette suppressed her memories of that traumatic incident, which is why she doesn't have any problems while hanging around with Kim. Also, the episode elucidated her obsessiveness and her need to know everything about someone in order to never be betrayed in such a manner again.
@lasseehrenreich5502 No, the writing was good and clearly explained why Marinette needed to be so controlling.
@@jonelrobinson7432 The episode had been planned for a long time, even before people complained about Marinette's behaviours.
Ok hear me out. The wax statue scene COULD have been good. I think we can all agree it is weird and creepy as it is but its confirmed that it is the point where adrien first fell for marinette. It could have been great if instead of her sniffing him and playing out a wax love story?? She could have said something about how she does love him but is too scared to confess, leading to adrien figuring it out. This isnt perfect but something like it could make the scene so much better and also explain why adrien likes her due to this, as it lets him see her true self for once! This is not what happened but if it was I'd say the scene could have been regarded as one of the best, not one of the worst. Thanks for reading 😊😊
@@ciaranfinnegan4897 That statue scene displayed how Marinette was role-playing to express her affection for Adrien. You may consider it creepy, but many girls also act in similar ways around something that reminds them of their crushes.
Some girls, definitely not 'many'.
I don't think that confessing to a picture on your phone or a t-shirt is anything regular, no...
And I sure don't think it's a girl thing. Simply a human thing.@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 I would argue with that, because I don't know anyone who could do that
@@NinetteLevittoux Just because you don't personally know someone like that, that doesn't mean that such people don't exist.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440 I wouldn't consider those people as normal
Marinette’s reasoning for stalking Adrien was BS.
Exactly!
Bro she is definitely a stalker why do people defend her -she broke into his house several times -She stole his phone -she went to another country/continent for him -She knows his schedule from the back of her head without anyone helping her -she knows what he likes without him telling her
But minus all of the stalker stuff she is a nice person… she been putting all the blame on herself and also been saving the world. And also the only reason why she became a guardian is for master fu. And in the London special she “I should’ve made the wish” and Natalie saids “and what would you have sacrificed?” And she said herself and yeah she does need therapy BADLY…
@@LastOfUs123No, she became the Guardian because Master Fu is a fool.
@@mayotango1317 fr, he chosed two random teenagers only bc they helped him
@@mayotango1317 I forgot about Kim, he also was random chosen ;-;
@@mayotango1317 I mean, there is that new theory on why Master Fu chose children, and it makes sense lol. Ik the writers didn't think that much of it, but it still makes a nice head cannon and adds more depth to Master Fu.
You made me change a lot of things in my view of Marinette but... I still dislike her quite a bit, just like you said, the negative things overshadow the positive ones and Derision justifying them doesn't help at all, oh and by the way, in the season 6 trailer Marinette is a stalker again so... I don't think the conclusion will age very well, unless they make an episode where they show her change and it's not just words.
And this has nothing to do with it, but Marinette from the movie will always be the best, maybe competing with Shadybug, but there is something about her redemption that I don't like.
Yeah Movie Marinette was honestly way better than Show Marinette at least in the movie she wasn't stalking Adrien and didn't treat Chat Noir like trash like what she did in the show which honestly made me happy 😊
Movie Marinette = Love her 😍 such a badass 😎
Show Marinette = Absolutely Hate Her 😒💢
Like I said before, She’s not a textbook definition stalker. But she DOES have stalker-like tendencies that she never really stopped doing.
Didn’t she sneak into her crush’s room and fly to another country to be near him? If that’s not textbook, then I’m curious what is
Nah that's textbook definition bro💀💀
@@mangamouse520 She only broke into his room to give him a present, not harass him. Following him to another country demonstrates her obsessive nature, which isn't the same as stalking him.
@@mangamouse520
Being a stalker requires an intent to threaten the person or make them feel unsafe. This is exactly what Marinette has going for her right now.
I'm still wondering what was the purpose of adding those stalkery-like traits in Marinette. Because it's "funny" for the creator? Because he thinks that's how teenage girls behave when they have a crush? I genuinely have no idea, cause both of those reasons are very wrong. Just... why?
Exactly, why? First it’s treated as a joke, and now she’s given this obviously last minute thrown in backstory reason on why she must stalk, which is weird considering she didn’t stalk Luka. She can’t get to know him as a person to know if he’s a good person, she just has to stalk him I guess
Yeah it’s treated as a joke like how anime is but Thomas really doesn’t know teenagers. Since he sees her as his child that can do no wrong. However compared seeing her in the movie & reading the manga they do make her act like a actual girl & with no stalking/cringe moments
@ wait…there’s a manga? I knew they had a comic that had some…interesting topics to talk about, but I didn’t think it had a manga series
@@littlesparrow303 Agreed!
@mangamouse520 Yea, there's a miraculous ladybug manga, and I heard that it's good.
Yes. I don't think I even need to watch this video, watch like three random episodes and you’ll 100% catch Marinette doing something obsessive.
She lied to her parents, chased Adrien to China, and stalked him using a single photo he posted. She knows his measurements. She made birthday presents for 35 of his next birthdays. She has pictures of him all over her room. She knows his schedule for the entire year. She has detailed fantasies about him.
Not to mention the whole statue thing in Season 3, Episode 12 (The Puppeteer 2)
I wouldn't say having photos of Adrian all over her room is that bad, especially considering everything else she has. It would've been better if she only has official photos though, stuff like ones from magazines or photo cards that fans can buy (at least in idol culture, photo albums of idols are sold to fans but Adrian is only a model so idk if it's the same). Where the problem is would be if Marinette has photos of Adrian that she takes without his consent
‘It’s complicated’
Also Marinette:
- breaks into Adrien’s house on multiple occasions
- follows him around without his knowledge
- makes an entire arrangement of presents for every year for his birthday
- smells things to get his ‘scent’
- interferes with his personal relationships to make herself more favorable
- learns his entire schedule to stalk him some more
- plans an entire life and future with him before even confirming whether or not he’d be okay with it
- gets her friends in on her stalkerish behavior to help her stalk him
- collects items that Adrien has touched simply because he touched them (I think.)
- has a victim complex that makes her justify her creepy behavior towards Adrien
- sniffs and kisses a ‘wax statue’ that is ACTUALLY Adrien which is creepy in it of itself, but along with that she actually SA’d him there even though nobody talks about it for some reason
- super possessive of him even when they’re not together
-is absolutely obsessed with a guy that considered her to be ‘just a friend’ for several seasons.
So.. yes - Marinette is a stalker. Her backstory is unfortunate but also just poorly written imo, more of an excuse than a reason.
@@DuckFortress1 I’m sorry if you thought the thumbnail was misleading or incorrect. I can definitely see where you’re coming from and those are all very valid points.
I mainly made the thumbnail like that to avoid any Marinette fans from hating or harassing me. I hope that this explains a few things.
@@ACriticalRetrospective OH! No, no that’s not an attack on you at all man, my bad I was just trying getting my 2 cents in. I accidentally commented twice but I do understand why you did that with the thumbnail. I’m not mad at you at all and no I don’t think the thumbnail was misleading - it actually makes sense. You’re right on that - it IS complicated. It doesn’t make her not a stalker but she’s definitely complex in a way.
@@ACriticalRetrospective bruh I don’t know how I didn’t see this 10 days ago I am so so sorry 🙇🏽♀️
@@DuckFortress1 It’s okay. I appreciate it when people share their thoughts with me without worrying about censoring themselves, it shows that they feel that this channel is a safe space for healthy discourse, which makes me feel like I’ve done my job well.
Thanks for clarifying though. I’m glad to hear that I didn’t actually offend you. 👍
Season 3 Marinette was... definitely something. Whilst breaking into someone's house and following them to a whole other country is definitely a very weird thing to do, Adrien never felt harassed by her behaviour at all and she didn't do it with the intention of making him feel uncomfortable. She just had a crush that got a bit too obsessive at times imo. 😅 The only time Adrien felt uncomfortable by her behaviour was in that one scene in Puppeteer 2 and kissing a statue is definitely a very weird thing to do. However, she didn't do it with the intention of making him uncomfortable because she didn't KNOW it was him. That's why she was never considered a stalker imo, but she was kind of obsessive. But in season 4 and 5, her character definitely got a lot better! She stopped with her convoluted plans to win over Adrien and just focused on being his friend, in the hopes of them becoming something more one day. And it was very cute to watch and I definitely enjoyed the ship more in seasons 4 and 5 lol. Also I love what you said about the end about how she's complicated but then again we're all a but complicated. Our flaws don't make us a horrible person. Just like how Marinette isn't an awful person. I also love how you pointed out her good traits at the end of the video. It's important to not forget about those. Keep up the good work!!!!
A Critical Retrospective video for Christmas? Couldn’t ask for anything better. Happy Christmas, dude.
Marinette is a stalker. She's broken into Adrien's home many times without him knowing, she knows his schedule from the back of her hand, she follows him and hides behind bins, and is always easedropping onto his conversations with other girls. She's a nice girl and all but she has stalked Adrien.
It's fascinating as a character flaw because it's so exaggerated and dismissed in the story that you could almost argue it's not meant to be canon and it's just a writing mistake. You can easily imagine an alternate version of the show where Marinette's just a bit clumsy and awkward about her crush. But at the same time I don't blame people who take this behaviour at face value because yeahhhhh the stalking is really overplayed
Personally I’m one of the ppl who directly dislike her, not only because of her stalker-ish tendencies but other aspects of her personality too. Recently I was watching season 4, the episode “crocoduel” and I was speechless at her behavior towards Luka. I completely understand that she may feel awkward since they had broke up recently and she felt really bad for him, but she literally tried to convince Juleka( HIS OWN SISTER ) to tell Luka NOT to go to HIS OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY?! JUST BECAUSE SHE WAS NERVOUS?!
That episode is just one of the MANY that highlight her weird behavior, and also a bit self-centered, like in the episode where Juleka and Adrien were supposed to model together, but Marinette decided to leave Juleka out ( and leave her alone in her house ) to model with Adrien. I get that she likes him, but Juleka was clearly sad and insecure and she ( and Alya ) made it all about herself.
Thank you, Marinette is even worst in season 4 .
Yeah tbh my issue with Marinette is she never gets called out for this behaviour, I would be fine it's framed as a charecter flaw,but it doesn't matter if the audience can acknowledge it outside the show when actual charecters don't treat it as much, Marinette can do anything and she would be framed as in the right
I love how you guys can't tell comedic effect apart from serious themes in the story. Bravo.
15:40 The small Harumi picture in the upper right corner got me so bad. CR can’t go one video without mentioning her lmfao.
It’s okay tho. I love Harumi too.
Edit: In all seriousness this was a great video and basically reflected my feelings on Marinette each season. Overall I don’t really like her but I do appreciate a lot of the stuff season 4 did with her. I still hate the writers for trying to justify her stalker tendencies with that god awful episode in Season 5.
The opening scene in this video convinced me.
Sometimes people need the same lesson more than once - most people don't seem to understand that I'm glad you do. And also to be fair even though I agree season 2 is probably best for her character not to be a creep it's not perfect in Gigantitan. She prevents Adrian's bodyguard from picking him up so she can be the savior for their romance and frame him so he gets a lot of parking tickets which I assume are pretty expensive even though he just ignored them. Personally I think that is a really bad thing to do.
I know she is. Imma still watch this anyway.
I had a coworker who I was chill with and eventually we realized we both liked miraculous but somehow the convo went to how marinette is about adrien and she vehemently denied that marinette’s behavior is stalking, just “exaggerated because it’s a cartoon” and changed the topic when i pointed out there are plenty of extremely healthy realistic relationships and now whenever I see this topic i think about her because wdym it didn’t sit weird that she never got any real consequences for actually stalking a person like bro? sure maybe if every relationship was treated like that but even then I’d just be saying the whole show is questionable for that.
100% a stalker look at the shanghai special 😅😮
She is undeniably a stalker, and sadly her influence affected me more than it should cuz as a kid (I was watching since season 1 was just being released) I thought it wasn't a bad thing to do, oh boy did that not age well
Y'all misunderstand me when I said I'm the #1 Marinette Slanderer. It's not because of her being a bad character that had the universe breaking its back to proof she's the most noble human in existence. No nooo, that's not the main reason.
It's because she's clearly a self-insert for Thomas.
It wasn't unusual for writers to have their characters to be their self-insert because that's where their base understanding and how they want the audience to see the world come from. Slowly but surely, they will become their own character along the way and have their own personality.
Unfortunately, Astruc is a narcissist. And what does a narcissist do? Make it ALL about themselves. Doesn't that sound familiar to you?
He doesn't want Marinette to be her own character (growing up).
Yes, the Marinette you're staring at is not Marinette anymore. She died at the end of S2 when Astruc took over. That's Marisue now. He wore her like a skinwalker to spout these nonsense cringe to us and harmful messages to children because HE'S THE GOD.
That's why I'm side-eyeing the Marinette Stans on the sidelines when they said, "she's 14!1!1!". That's a middle-aged man in her skin. No sane 14 yo would act like that. Y'all defending a 50 yo man who forgot to act like a 14 yo "teehee" school girl.
The worst thing about adrien is that he's a prize Marinette gets for being good.
26:00 yah you did. You absolutely achieved in giving it a balanced view. - Marinette gets a lot of intense hate, I think that's just due to the show managing her flaws badly
Finally someone who do an actual balanced critique about Marinette instead of only hating on her ! I really do appreciate it :D
Yeah, because the show never insist that she is the "Best Ladybug ever".
Sometimes I feel the writing is Soo inconsistent that I can't hate any character truly-
Why is the writing inconsistent? It's quite straightforward and the storyline is coherent.
One thing I don’t like about Miraculous Ladybug is the fact that it screwed up my humour for the longest time, since I was a kid at the time of watching and the show never portrayed Marinette in the wrong when it came to her behaviour. It made me find characters obsessing over other characters funny, which is embarrassing looking back on. I know that could just be me and my old naivety and I have never condoned stalking in my life, but it still f*cked up my humour until I realised how bad it was.
Sorry for this comment I just wanted to ramble.
Same. It had me rooting for her and laughing whenever she intruded on Adrien’s life far more than what was appropriate. Normally I would’ve recognized it was stalking but I didn’t because the show played it for laughs.
Poor Plagg, being stalked by Marinette.
what ?
I mean kinda. Plagg does have an upper hand though. He could technically cataclysm Marinette if she ever does something unforgivable.
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian she technically isn't stalking him when she doesn't even know he lives with Adrian not that I am defending her bad behavior
@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian 😂
Mari is a stalker but i can speak from experience as a current victim of stalking, trust me when i say shes not half as problematic as a real stalker lmfao like im being full on controlled by it ect ect but adrien isn’t at all. Id rather have a mari than the dude following me lol
I hope they go away you feel safer soon
Girl admits it in Pupateer during the train scene😭😭
she is/was 100% a stalker because season 1 makes her a example of an obsessed celebrity fan girl and the "jokes" about her knowledge about Adrienne isn't that cartoony ,absurd and aren't that unrealistic look at what real fans do it's terrifying
Yes she is , next question.
so probably the most horrible thing marinette can do to chloe was to use her superhero persona to say she's impossible for her to be a superhero
there is a big difference to how you can affect other people, marinette is a civilian so if chloe get "you can't be a hero" speech from her chloe doesn't care or just ignore in a way she's a civilian someone she as the same level as her but if ladybug do that ofc there is a big power and class difference she is the hero she is the one that save everyone everyday ofc that hit Hard
i can understand marinette being young but like some dead uncle said "with great power come great responsibility" so yeah a superhero can't be bias to begin with and that's a thing that i like in marinette a flaw she indirectly caused everything that happen from season 3 onward with her stupid decision and bias between character but why her karma didn't got to her and now chloes is in new york
that's anger me i love a flawed portagonist sure but eh
also yeah the whole bad thing that she did i'm sorry adrien have to know have to show her what real consequences are Adrien need to put limit barrier
marinette need karma that's it and i can like her more when she understand her wrong
Why does everyone ignore what she did to Chat Noir in Ephemeral? She was prepared to manipulate and lie to him about revealing their identities together, just to get Su-han off her back and is not only tricking Chat Noir to give up his identity under false pretenses but to someone, that as far she knows, he's never met. That's just sick, especially when she could've just told Chat the truth from the beginning about Su-han and how he wants to know his identity instead of taking advantage of his trust. Ah, but then again, when has she actually told Chat anything?
to be fair she she believe if he knows her Identity the world will end do to Cat Blanc bur it sill no a verry good things to do
@lasseehrenreich5502 Okay, then just tell him that Su-han wants to know his identity and arrange a meeting, and not be there.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 yes that would make a lot more sense i blame it on bad writing
The show normilzes Marinette behavior to the younger audience and when Cat noir keeps flirting with ladybug even when she says no. It sends the wrong message to kids
I hated the season 5 retcon with Dark Humor to justify it. She was just a normal 13 year old girl in love, being a cartoon the classic social media stalking was exaggerated but it worked well, I would have preferred her to learn that it was wrong to violate Adrien's privacy like this and stop
I mean I understand making a character have a crush and making a mistake like stealing a phone cause hi-jicks but my problem is that they made her crush into almost an obession and aside from a few small comments, no one in the show is calling her out for it.
I hate how they wrote Marinette in season 3. Like, why? 😢
Yeah, I can for the most part relate to her charecter in season one,in that case I really did feel like she panicked in that moment which led to her stealing the phone then was too embarrassed to tell Adrien,but I just don't like the way they wrote her in season three it really did feel too obsessive,breaking and entering someone's else twice and even having a firefighter help her all so to what?prevent Lila from lying to Adrien when he already knows she's a liar,it really did feel like Tikki was the only one who kept consistently calling her out for these things. I can't even hate Marinette for it because it's not her fault she was written to be this way.
@ishashifar Mari even has his whole schedule for the past several years for no reason 😑 with Alya only saying "you are majorly crazy girl" like it was cute like girl it is not
If we talk worse episodes in season 5 we need to include Evolution.
Deflagration could have worked if it was during season 1-2 (most prominently around Dark Cupid).
But the amount of stuff Evolution destroyed is insane:
Kuro Neko, Feast, Furious Fu, the set up of the wish, Gabriels intentions, nearly everything Wais and Saas said about Kwamis, introducing yet another time loop (after Time tagger and Cat Blanc introduced one as well and Fu giving the rabbit miraculous most likely away to Alixs dad before coming to Paris on behalf of Bunnix).
Also the pacing being literally the same day as Strike back is lunatic. Because the first thing I would do with the power of time resets is learning enough informations to effectively use them.
Also to find and stop Felix as he knows who you are and could easily over power you as you won’t be transformed all the time.
Season 1 episode 6 (Alixs transformation), Cat Blanc, Time tagger and Evolution broke miraculous in ways you can only fix by removing Alix from this plane of existence (let her chill in Shanghai with the Kwami of the underworld).
Also the Paris special introduced a whole other layer of problems. Alternative dimensions within a show that has the concept of quantum mechanics (as this is how time operates in the show) is insanity.
The only reason Bunnix or Gabriel don’t break the show wide open is because of fear of causing time to end when the entire show is one large loop. This means its a cheap explanation for plot convenience.
And that is so sad to see.
Because if we ignore Marinettes Mary Sue behavior for most of the show and Adrien being a glorified Damsel in distress the show is actually insanely good.
If only time would work like in Arcane the show would be near perfect. And that hurts so bad
Thank you for realizing she has OBVIOUS issues. LOL every character has a human side.
AND NOW YOU ALL CAN GET ANGRY
GUESS WHAT
THEY ARE TOGETHER NOW YAYYY😊😊😊
I just HATE how they used some backstory to excuse Marinette being a stalker they could at least use it to explain in and in that episode and the continuing ones have her realise her unhealthy behaviour and try to change it.
Exactly they also mentioned it in that same episode that backstory cannot excuse actions,Derision honestly felt like a last minute addition there was no foreshadowing about the context,it should've been a thing in around s3 and have her slowly realize her behaviour is wrong and make her try to change,imo it would've made for a scene where she could say she doesn't need to do any of that because she trusts Adrien wholeheartedly not to hurt her or something like that and would have made for better charecter growth.
Know I feel bad for Christian for voicing her, I saw a video that said she is his favorite character and after every season, they really ruined marinette from the beging
She is a stalker no doubt
I know this is off topic but i find it really cute how you have harumi as your channel banner
I decided to change it when I realised it was outdated by saying “Subscribe for videos every 1-3 weeks, which obviously isn’t the case. 😅”
I’ll take any chance I get to put Harumi-related things on my channel. 🤣
Not even 5 sec in and already on the point XD
Yes, yes she is 🙃
Happy holidays btw ✨🎉
Okay imagine a guy did all that Mari did like it’s soo creepy imagine Mari was an idol/model and Adrien stole her phone,broke into her house, made a chart of her schedule and tried to destroy her relationships. It’s bad to begin with and a lot of what I just said are crimes so don’t give me “oH ThE lEgAl DeFIniTiOn of StAlkIng Is tHe pErSOn FeElS HaRrAssed” like it’s a crime just because he doesn’t know doesn’t mean it’s not stalking and what’s worse the creators treat it like a gag like no it’s not okay even if it’s treated as a joke. Don’t normalize stalking models, idols or even friends
I apologise if the video came across like that. I promise that I wasn't trying to delegitimise how horrifying her actions truly are. More than anything, I wanted the video to be a balanced critique, and claimed towards the end that Marinette was a stalker, but technically isn't anymore as of Season 5.
I was afraid of making either side angry with me, and tried my best to appease both of them to reach a happy medium. Thank you for your input regardless.
No no no it was more of a comment to those people that were abusing the legal definition of stalking to justify what Marinette did sorry ^^
@@someone-who-draws Oh! Now I understand. Thanks for clarifying, I thought I really messed something up. 😅
@@ACriticalRetrospective
Frankly I feel Marinette is much worse in season 4, when her freak control tendencies and stubbornness increase as does her mistreatment with Chat Noir.
I think she is, but I think they made at least some explaination to it. Also she always cared for Adrian, not just stalked him. I think if Adrien wasn't so clueless, she wouldn't have gone that far. And I think it's good that she s not a perfect main character as in a fairytale.
YES. case closed.
I agree that Marinette is a stalker but also Cat Noir has problematic behaviour regarding Ladybug throughout the series. So please can you make a similar video for Cat Noir regarding him being too pushy when persusing Ladybug?
Oh yeah definitely,that is also a problem I don't see a lot of people address in the fandom he was also like that, I guess the minor difference between those cases is Ladybug firmly called him out for doing that everytime he called her a nickname she wasn't comfortable with or kept pushing his feelings on her till he had to stop in season 4 and started to respect her boundaries a lot more,while Marinette never had anyone to do that for her,but a lot of people don't want to acknowledge they're both like that in a way, they're both freaks when it comes to eachother.
YES, I SWEAR EVERYONE FORGETS CAT NOIR'S HARRASMENT
always so happy when I see that u uploaded
I'm really happy that I've made you happy. ☺
I would say that at the very least, while lovesick, Marinette is a step forward from characters like panini from chowder, the kanker sisters from ed, edd and eddy, tootie from the fairly odd parents, pucca from the series of the same name and Dijonay from the proud family. All of these ones while more daring and bashful, have no concept of morals and boundaries (especially personal space) around them.
I would argue pannini is slighlty better if only because she was never intended to be a role model but I also would argue that's what make her worse because it's nothing but a joke . These are some dark time we live in
Honestly, I never saw Marinette as a role model really @@panpanmonday3585. I mean, even other animated teenage/young girls did some shady things.
Here's the list:
Twilight sparkle: unintentionally brainwashed an entire town with the goal of bringing a lesson report to Celestia
Luz Noceda: used living poisonous animals in lessons and planned to light up explosives in class
Anne Boonchuy: got into various troubles both on earth and amphibia including physically attacking her found family and ditching school.
Wordgirl: keeping her identity a secret and literally airing a threatening broadcast to all the town's villains.
Tulip Olsen: her whole journey on the infinity train was basically telling her "everyone has problems and yours aren't bigger than others".
Hilda: lied to and kept secrets from her mother and can be quite rude at times.
Robyn Goodfellowe: similar to Hilda.
Coraline Jones: similar to the last two plus ungrateful.
None of them are evil but all had a lot of room to grow.
*cleara throat*
_YES_
thank you
Happy Christmas Eve CR!
-Happy Harumi Holidays!-
Merry Christmas!
@@ACriticalRetrospectiveGod Damn It CR!🤣🤣🤣
0:46 That makes 2 of us
At first they made her the 'quriky girl who is in love and mess up' in s1 and it was cute and fun and a sweet innocent crush
The Adrien’s schedule thing always confused me because did she research it or was Adrien’s schedule posted online or what
i guse that will always be a mystery
She actually has her whole class schedule
@christ5431 Where's that say ?
It might be because Marinette is class representative (or was because s5) part of the duties as class rep includes organizing and planning activities for the class. In order for this to be possible, the rep must be aware of the extracurricular schedule of their classmates. As vice president, which is Alya in this case. she is also privy to this information.
So, that or due to proximity, students are often aware of the schedule of their fellow class members.
@lasseehrenreich5502 comfirmed by Thomas Astruc
oh this It's gonna be good Happy Holiday
Why is this even a question, she IS 😂
21:20 I also read the blog. I actually learned a lot from it.
Reading that blog is one of the most relaxing things for me.
It looks like no one is intrested in their crush and partners any more and if you dont give shit is some sort of so called healthy trend 😂
When you want someone it does not look like you are not intrested😅
Short answer: Well yes but it’s not supposed to be that serious 😂
Could u do a video comparing and ranking all the episodes you've ranked as no.1 or in last place on ur ranking seasons videos?
Merry Christmas eve
You too.
Who wants to rewrite Miraculous. The whole show is a mess and it needs to be cleaned and expanded to be at least for 2-3 years instead of one year only across 6 seasons. I know writing a show is hard and it’s not like I can do better, but something is off about it and the characters are victims of bad writing. Also Marinette should have a Chinese middle name as well as her Hyphenated last name.
The show is fine as it is. Just because you didn't enjoy it, that doesn't make it a mess.
@@weltschmerzistofthaufig2440it kind of is a mess, especially season five they tried to use four seasons with few episodes that actually progressed the plot and had charecters development they had in an episode be regressed just for the sake of another episode,minimal development of the love square till mid season 4,and then crammed all the plot developments into season 5 without proper buildup or room to breathe,and the creator being allergic to taking any constructive criticism. Your statement can apply in both ways just because you enjoyed a show does not mean it's immune to obvious flaws.
@@ishashifar I don't see how it's a mess. The previous seasons provided an excellent build-up to the fifth one, and the show had transitioned from an episodic to a serialised format in the fourth season. The character development was also consistent throughout, with characters becoming more endearing and resilient over time. The love square remained consistent in the first three seasons because of the episodic format, but you're ignoring the development of the original four ships as well. The plot progression in season 5 was quite smooth and easy to follow, especially considering how it relied on concepts and character arcs it introduced in the previous season. Astruc's decision to not listen to constructive criticism is not a good look, but it's ultimately his show and he was capable of presenting an excellent story. Yes, you could apply my statement in the converse, but what really matters is how you analyse and interpret the story and its execution. I really didn't discover any pressing problems with the narrative, so I stand by my opinion. I respect yours as well.
True
Ok so what if Marinette was boy?You think it would be creepy if she behaved like that right?I think Astruc has problems writting his daughter as human being or any girls characters.Layla is just as Marinette Mary Sue but as villain,Chloe is just forced to be rich brat without reason,Rosa is too optimistic and Juleka is opposite,Alya is just supporter,Marinette mom is nothing more then her mom and I can go and go...They have all potential but is wasted by one stupid reason,I wouldnt mind if Marinette was stalking if she would reflect her mistakes.
I agree with your point about Marinette being a stolker and having to learn her lesson, but not your point about female characters (even though I hate astruc). Many characters in miraculous are specifically made to refer to a type of person not just females, like Rose is too optimistic, there is Kim who is the brainless jock, Max who is the nerd, etc. Then some characters are or have become more or less complex but I don't think there is a gender issue
Marinette annoyed me and I didn't like her in the beginning but now I think she's a really good character
I started to dislike Marinette when she cried to a fireman because she couldn't break into his house shes creepy she even followed him to a whole different continent like her crush is worse than Chloe's Marinette wasn't supposed to be this creepy like in general ladybug is a semi good character Marinette in the movie were they redid everything was amazing she wasn't creepy she had a crush she confessed and they ended up together great i like her more than the show Marinette bc Marinette is a stalker and make me uncomfortable and scared for Adrian ladybug or not
Also Marinette should be arrested for a lot of things she done 😭
Happy holidays
Happy holidays!
I like and dislike about Marinette but it was due to the writers writing.
I like how she is but i don't like it when she stutter around Adrien which that is annoying and i don't like her stalker behavior and among other things that I'm not going to say.
But I do wish she was written better is all.
Short answer: yes
The real question is how Adrien would react to Marinette being a stalker. Honestly? Considering how he treated Wayhem, I don't think he's that concerned with stalkers. He befriended Wayhem despite him also being something of a stalker, and that was when Wayhem was a stranger. Wayhem isn't a bad dude, which is why Adrien didn't mind when he went too far... the same is true of Marinette.
Marinette isn't a bad person, and Adrien knows that. Moreover, instead of being a stranger like Wayhem that Adrien gives the benefit of the doubt, Marinette is his friend - one of his first ones. He is shown to greatly value Marinette at multiple points.
So... the question is, would Adrien date a crazy stalker if that stalker was Marinette?
My answer is that he matches her freak. He'd 100% date a stalker. Especially if that stalker was Marinette, who he greatly respects.
Is this... a good thing? Maybe not! But my conclusion is that he wouldn't write her off for it. I honestly think it could be an interesting dark romance, but in a kids show without showing any indication that it recognizes that stalking is wrong? Maybe not the best thing to go with 😅.
If written by a good writer, I could see it being compelling. I love the idea of Marinette and Adrien "matching each others freak" so to speak. Everyone looks at them like they're a sickening sweet trainwreck they can't look away from. That's my ideal Marinette and Adrien dynamic.
But that's my personal taste. From an objective point of view, I don't know if kids could handle the compexity of such a relationship, and I also don't think they intended the couple to be this way, based on the framing of the two. It's definitely a writing problem 😅.
Yes of course
…Yes.
I trully loved James Rodríguez role at Colombia ❤
Yes
*Wait, was it not obvious?*
12:00 wdym find you a person? The answer is fairly simple. It’s Thomas Astruc
It is because of this silly show that many of her fans were expelled from school or went to jail for imitating Marinette's "peculiar and charming" behavior.
For that she deserves to be criticized (both off and on the show), as being in her ivory tower for so long made Marinette do questionable things as she thought it was the right thing to do. Cof Season 5 finale cof
Heck, even Marinette make Chloe continue to be with her obviously abusive, loveless mother was a mistake and it ruined the blonde's life to continue to see her mother as a role model instead of pushing her away. And now, thank to Marinette, Adrien think that his father is a hero and a good man.
So YES, Marinette is a stalker and a bad human being.
The show needs someone to tell her his truths, just like Quagmire told Brian Griffin what he deserved.
family guy is nonsense, all the characters in the series are terrible people so Quagmire suddenly deciding he wasn't good with Brian I never understood. Marinette is not a bad person and I find it hard to believe that many of her fans imitated her, however I would have liked her to learn that stalking was wrong instead of being justified on this I agree
@lamichevolediquartiere5954
Dude, the fact that the Marinette stands defend her from anything, say something. And yes, some fangirls mimicked that stalker behavior as they thought it was seen as funny and that many her friends would support, as the show does. Big mistake.
"If she can do it, why can't I?" That's the mentality of a naïve, impressionable child.
@@mayotango1317 people going in jail?
@christ5431 In France, parents are fined if their children are absent from school or drop their grades.
@mayotango1317 As a French person I ask where you get this information from.
The school system and children in France have always been shaky. Marinette has nothing to do with it.
honestly I despise her since season 3! And everyight be crying she lost miraculouses but me? I was f cheering in happiness! I was bullied through all elementary school (it's so called in the country where I lie), have boyfriend right now and did I stalked him or anyone?? Nope! I did not! It's beyond sick explanations and that makes Luka look like a joke
@@fynchan12 I’m really sorry to hear about the bullying, it’s never fair to be subjected to that. I’m glad things are going better for you now! 👍
its not complicated. she is a stalker.
I'm curious, when did Marinette even started liking Adrien?
Origins p2 I think when he apologized to her in the rain
That fast? Like, really?
@@jamy_pajamylol yeah,in all fairness the show's initial crushes all happened that quickly,Cat Noir fell in love with Ladybug just when he saw her defeat a villain for the first time.
They fall in love quicker than Flash
Yes, he give her an umbrella.