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Foxwing awning - a flawed design? How to make it work for real expeditions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2024
- The original Foxwing design has a tendency to break when being erected even in mild conditions. I have modified my awning to make it much more robust and suitable for real expeditions. See how I have done it.
I apologise for losing my temper at the start of the video when my awning broke unexpectedly. It caused me a great deal of grief :-(
I think I just found my favourite grumpy uncle! ;-) I am in no way mathamatically equiped to be a proper engineer but even a shade tree mechanic like myself can figure out how to modify something to make it work like it should've been designed to. Thanks for doing the hard brain work for us and trying to keep the engineers honest. I have a 270 awning that I am about to put on but I think I might have a better look at the pivot before I do. Happy trails!
Love your honesty and your direct to the point
I didn’t expect such an in-depth look into this issue, even though I struggled with the math, I listened to every word. I have an ARB simple fold out awning, this broke on those plastic joints too, yes they sell spares and I did indeed buy new plastic joints. Thank you for sharing.
As I said you can skip the analysis and still get the message.
So ARB are playing the same game? It's a disgrace IMO. They could easily make a more robust ptoduct as I have demonstrated.
Good travels friend.
We had breakage with our Foxwing as well (as I’m sure every owner does). I have seen a guy making alloy replacement joints, can’t remember how much they are but I think I’ll go that way. Your re-design is fantastic though! Excellent videos Bill, I’m so glad I stumbled across your channel. I have built a few different trucks in my time and the latest is a 1986 ex-RAF 90 that looks very much like yours. Thanks for the inspiration on this truck.
Hello zebra, I tried to reply but it seems the comment didn't post. I"ll try again when I am back in UK.
I don't have any Rhino Rack products and your video emphasized on staying away from them. Thanks for sharing your experience and great job on solving the problem.
i believe that Rhino Rack roof racks are flimsy too. I am at the moment sitting beneath the modified awning, very happy. See my other videos about products which need to be redesigned to make them work.
Great vid. I’ve always found a robust tarp attached to the roof rack with removable cable ties and 3 adjustable poles/guy ropes will never let me down. Possible to configure in many ways to counter the wind/rain/snow/sun, etc. And nothin to break!
I wanted a 270 degree awning to cover the siide and back of the vehicle. It is possible to make one up but I thought it'd be nice to buy one off the shelf for a change. What a mistake it turned out to be.
Totally awesome. I had a break while packing up which fixed with original parts, but if it goes again (and we know it will) i’m going to employ these measures/mods. Many thanks
If I were you I'd modify the damned thing before the next trip because it will cause great inconvenience when it breaks again. It ruined my trip to Portugal.
Another brilliant video......I had a 270* awning (fox wing by oztent) and like yours was caught by a gust of wind whilst setting up (by myself) camp in the French Pyrenees, one of the "chocolate" brackets sheared off rendering the whole thing useless, my shelter...from the incessant rain, was reduced to the back of my 110. I had to purchase a tarp from decathalon outdoor store so the rest of my trip wasn't totally ruined. I ordered a new part and fixed it when I returned home. I found the best and most permanent solution .....was to get rid of it and fit a front runner easy out awning 2.5 x 2 meters with all the correct supporting hardware. By your excellent narration and precise demonstrations I presume at some point you taught engineering.....more overland gear companies could very well do with a chap like you on their designing team...ensuring gear didn't fail when you need it most!
You obviously had the same experience as me and it spoiled your trip too. I hope you managed to keep your temper, unlike me :-(
This intro is amazing :-) Thanx for sharing your knowledge ! Cheers Axel
There was no acting there I can assure you.
@@defendermodsandtravels :-) Yes, we can see that :-)
What a detailed break down of a breakdown. Such a simple solution to an unaceptable design flaw. Rhino rack here in aus are popular, but are just average quality products. They are way too relient on molded plastic parts though.
Thanks for another interesting video
They could do so much better and yet they don't even try. I suppose it's more profitable to keep selling repalecement hinges but think of all the ruined trips caused by these breakages. Unacceptable.
Good to learn! Thanks for sharing.
Another good video Bill
That’s the best start to a video ever.
Hmphh. Yes well it had a certain directness but I was well fired up as you may have noticed :-)
"Now, this would be a very typical homework problem for a first year engineering student."
You could teach Foxwing a thing or two about throwing shade!
It would teach an engineering student about environmental loads, bending moments and material selection. All basic stuff.
Welcome to the channel Zebra.
The channel is small but has a hard core of followers who are on the same wavelength. There's no bling, froth or bs. I drive a 30 year old vehicle because I see no advantage in owning a modern one. I am an engineer and use this knowledge to investigate topics of interest.
I am always happy to exchange views with subscribers.
Thanks very much 👍
Top job … ! Improvise adapt & over come
hi there - like many others in the comments I've snapped more of the black plastic pieces than I care to count, so much so I take spares with me when I go solo camping and have seriously considered selling and going with another manufacturer, however, as I have all the walls to suit the Foxwing it becomes a very expensive exercise. So glad I found your video, absolutely amazing solution to a rather poor design. I'll definitely be changing mine to this moving forward. thanks again.
Hi it is a bit of work and essential to buy tube which is a snug fit over the Foxwing arms however if you do the job right it works. I have had no problems since I did the mod. I too have some side panels which I didn't want to discard.
Currently driving around South Africa and the awning will get used over the next few months.
Would you be able to share the size of stainless pipe you purchased. I’m in Australia so shouldn’t be too hard to source. Thanks in advance.
@@4wdmudlova Hi I am overlanding in South Africa and don't have access to my data but I think I may have answered this in a previous comment on this video. I seem to remember it was an Imperial size tube. Otherwise take a caliper and measure it. It needless to be snug but not an interference fit otherwise you won't be able to slide the sleeve over. You will need to chamber the inner lip of the cut end so it doesn't catch on the inner tube. Good luck.
Awesome. Thanks heaps. Will look through the other comments. Travel safe.
Very interesting - a smart upgrade
I didn't have much choice did I? Doing the development work for the lazy manufacturer.
Jolly good show old chap.
By the way - I have now seen the I type beam welded under the new Mercedes G wagon built for the military. They put the I beam under the axle housing. Just as you suggested.
Do you think I can claim royalties for this cribbing of my design? We all knew the Chinese copied but I didn't realise the Germans did too :-)
@@defendermodsandtravels Giving secrets to the Germans now eh ??
That's punishable by hanging isn't it ?
Mercedes Military launched their special forces G wagons with the I beam along the entire underside and length of the solid axle. Welded of course.
"Every weld is an engineering failure".
It'll be strong as an ox until it breaks.....
@@adelarsen9776 Take my comment in context. Each of the welds attaching the Tee section to the axle will be necessary I am sure. That isn't the case with most of the brutish trussing kits sold in the US.
@@defendermodsandtravels Roger :-)
Thanks for sharing. I had the same observations when I have seen those Rhino Racks and finally have purchased a "30 second awning".
Far better design with double support for each pole that allows halving the internal forces in each member.
Expensive bit of kit but Rhino isn't cheap either.
The 30 sec awning isn't sold here so there isn't much choice. In fact the overlanding market in the UK is much smaller because of the nature of the country. Anyhow I have now ended up with something which works although I resent having to do their development work for them.
@@defendermodsandtravels Agreed, but we wouldn't had the chance to view this great video of they were making a good product from the start!
In any case, I am willing to help you get any supply from here in the even you want something from Australia.
not even a whole minute in and I knew it would be good
Well the first minute was the most exciting part :-)
Very useful thanks. On a separate note could I ask where you got the door lock (hasp) on the drivers door. I’m looking to add an additional lock on my 110’s rear door.
Thanks
@@perrymarc2162 You'll find a hasp at any good locksmiths or on ebay which has everything.
The hasps paired with battleship grade padlocks are a superb security option. No one even attempts to break in.
A lot of products just aren't built or designed to last anymore. They just need it to outlast the warranty period. Not a great business model though, as with you I have no problem blacklisting a company that makes poorly designed throwaway products. Enjoyed the video!
Except that with this product it can fail on the first use if there's a puff of wind at the wrong moment. If you made a warranty claim they'd probably post you a couple of knuckle joints and tell you to fit them yourself :-(
I want this man to narrate my life.
Is that a compliment?
@@defendermodsandtravels In my opinion, Yes that is most definitely a compliment. You have an excellent oratory style and cadence. Even in the beginning of the video I found the dialog quite entertaining. The particular tone of your voice exudes politeness even while cursing.
I can very much empathize with your frustration. I am an engineer as well, but not a structural or mechanical but a network engineer. While the "loads" I deal with are in the nature of how much data a network can efficiently support and the redundancy of that data system are of a different stripe than the loads you are talking about there are some similarities. Mainly in dealing with the fallout from a system that was not designed properly in the first place and having to fix something that if the proper time had been taken during the initial design would never have had an issue in the first place.
It is indeed frustrating when you buy things which turn out to have been designed without any engineering input. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to modify things to make them work. Too often products are designed for appearance rather than for function. It's just getting worse now with the market flooded with Chinese rubbish.
Thanks for your contribution.
Looking for his next video on the practical application of Rockwell Hardness. Seriously should patent his hinge and do a GoFundMe to crank these out of a small machine shop.
I understand that the manufacturer has seen the video and has replaced the chocolate hinges with a cast aluminium version. They didn't have the courtesy to thank me for doing their development work for them :-(
Thanks for sharing, and it seems an excellent solution! I much appreciate your work! I want to implement it by myself for my Batwing Awning😊. I’ve two questions if I may (hopefully you can help me): 1. Why did you choose a 25cm tube and not for a longer one (like 50 cm)? Would there be a higher risk to break the original pole? 2. With your adjustment to strengthen the hinge, will there be a higher risk the pole will break with high wind? Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions.
The length of the strengthening tube? It depends what you are trying to achieve. Are you trying to strengthen the awning when erecting it / taking it down or for the erected condition when it has been propped and guyed?
I wanted to strengthen it for the former case to avoid unexpected failures with practically zero wind as I experienced. The 25cm tube should give it at least 3x more strength (maybe rather more - I can't tell because I don't know the strength of the original knuckle joint) which will be sufficient for any likely wind conditions when erecting the awning (to state the obvious, you wouldn't put the awning up in a high wind). You can extend the strengthening tube if you wish and you can see the reduction in bending moment by referring to the diagram for the cantilever case. The bending moment reduces approximately linearly with the distance from the support, at least until you get near to the free end.
If you want to strengthen the awning for the erected condition the situation is quite different. The maximum bending moment will be in mid span and the the strengthening tube must extend beyond there to 80% - 85% of the span length to be effective. At that point the awning becomes significantly heavier and more cumbersome.
I chose the strengthening tube carefully to be a mild interference fit over the original pole which is necessary to achieve composite action between the two. I was just able to force the pole 25cm into the tube. If the tube was much longer I wouldn't have been able to force it over the pole and I would have needed to cut the latter, which I didn't want to do.
As I said in the video, the weak point is now the pole however I don't think it will bend except under quite high wind loading. For me the modified awning is a sensible compromise.
@@defendermodsandtravels Thanks for your quick reply and comprehensive answer, very helpful! This gives my a clear idea how to do fix it! Many thanks again!
@@defendermodsandtravels In addition: could you give me the diameter of the tube you used (outside diameter and inside diameter)? That would be very helpful. Thanks
You have to be responsible for selection of the tube but here are a few pointers:
1. It needs to be mild interference fit over the pole
2. The wall thickness should be as thin as possible to fit between the fingers of the hinge support
3. If the tube isn't seamless watch out for the seam weld which will reduce the ID.
I bought a 1" OD x 1/16" SS tube but that may not be right for you.
@@defendermodsandtravels thanks a lot, this gives me a good insight! I'll check the exact sizes.
3:14 hard to tell from the video, but wouldn't a failure driven mainly by an unsupported bending moment look less flush as the part of the member cross section under tension would elongate and show signs of plastic deformation that survive the failure. With how clean that break appears from top to bottom in the video, could the main driver instead be a local stress raiser in the section that inserts in the pipe because no one added a radius to the feature?
Either way the new design is a big step forward :)
If you were to make one from scratch, would you have still used the steel aluminium hybrid tube assembly, or would you have gone all stainless steel?
You are saying brittle plastic? Most likely. Whether there was a stress raiser or low failure stress the outcome was the same. Not fit for purpose IMO.
@@defendermodsandtravels It was more of a question than a statement :) I agree it failed and was not fit for use, just interested to gain more insight into if the failure mode was from no engineering, or if it had some engineering with oversight in taking into account local stress raisers and if inspecting the failed joint gave any clues.
Not sure if you caught the second part of the reply as I did a edit. How is your modified setup holding up and if you were to build the awning from scratch would you do it the same way, or was the mixture of stainless and aluminium a result of fixing the weakest link in your existing setup.
@@MikeRatcliffe24 The modified awning is great. Have taken it many places in many weather conditions. No probs at all.
Have you looked into the Australian company Supapeg?
I don't think they are imported into the UK. I see from their website that the hinges are made from nylon and they recommend the owner to carry a spare so it doesn't inspire confidence. Why does everyone use plastic these days?
@@defendermodsandtravels it's actually good that they use plastic (and I did change my mind on that as initially I also like solid aluminium or metal) but here in Australia we have willi willies which are little tornados coming out of nothing. We had one two years ago in the Desert and it took 80kg of Solar Panels and just flung them around, the same happened with my Supapeg Awing) luckily the weakest link where joints so to fix it was only a 10 minute job by replacing the joints). I do like your pin design with the Johny Joints though.
@@AlloffroadAu The idea may have merit but the implementation is badly flawed. There was no more than a gentle breeze when mine failed. The fact that the manufacturer says that you should have at least 2 people to erect it is a tacit admission that they know it's a rotten design.
I have seen plenty of negative comments about Rhino Rack roof racks fastened by pop rivets. It says it all really.
lol thats one of the reasons I got rid of mine
Never apologies for something that is the truth.
I think I only apologised for the swearing but I defy anyone to keep their cool under such circumstances.
@@defendermodsandtravels I know but swearing is part of that truth. If I was in that situation, my swearing and attitude would make you look like a choir boy ! And yes, I hate plastic and cheap sloppy engineered stuff as well. I run into this often. So yes you were right to be royally pissed at that company. And as you hinted at, I doubt you were the first nor the second that this happened to and yet the company just ignored it. I was actually looking at this unit last year for my van. Glad I didnt persue it further.
That's £1 for the swear box chap!
I didn't hear any swearing, just a silly beeping noise :-)
Maybe its time for a new perhaps more reliable car with a more spacious cab :-)
That is of course a very sensible suggestion but I don't have the time to start developing a new expedtion vehicle. I would also need to extend my garage which only just holds the Defender and my Disco 1. Also if I had a larger expedition vehicle my travel partner would simply take a lot more stuff on tour :-( The Defender is a big compromise but one I am prepared to live with.
PS who said it was unreliable?
@@defendermodsandtravels haha nice reply mate 👍👌 was just taking the piss a bit and I'm glad you interpreted it that way. Nice vid - I enjoyed the engineers take on it 👍
no need for aplogies for calling out F'Wiits
Don’t apologise mate. You are dead right. This world is full of dip shits that have no idea on how things work and what is required to create a strong product. This is only the first problem. The second is then they find the cheapest and nastiest overseas manufacturer to cut cost and make the most amount of GP. This is purely greed and these companies don’t give a rats arse as to the products longevity or the customers happiness.
Well said. I know little about RhinoRack but I think they fit your description nicely. I won't be buying from them again.
BTW one of my subscribers advised that the manufacturer saw this video, realised that the product was woefully deficient, has changed the desgn and has made a big price reduction too. They didn't have the balls to contact me though. I will get to see the modified design when I meet the subscriber later this year and I may do an update to the video.
As clever as you chose to prove you are. You didn't work this out prior to fitting it. Or using it
I had a dialogue with the vendors before buying the awning. They assured that any breakages were due to abuse or to severe wind loading. They also said that the design had been around for decades and that there were many thousands of satisfied customers. What more can the customer do before buying a product? You ask the right questions and get plausible answers.
I am advised the manufacturers have seen the video and have changed the design. There are cast aluminium knuckle joints now.
There's nothing "clever" about the engineering at all - a first year engineering student could do that. I include this content for those who want to know a bit about the engineering theory which clearly doesn't include you. I am sorry if it offended you in any way.
My take on it is that the manufacturers knew bloody well that the design was flawed and have been taking customers for a ride for years. I think those business practices are unethical. If this video has brought this to the attention of potential customers it has achieved its purpose.