If only there were some Boston Marathon related clue as to what the 'Competitor' shoe is😂 I run in the Competitor but also have earlier versions of the Puma Deviate Nitro which are the most comfortable super shoes around. Good to know they are now serious competition for the bigger brands. A very useful exercise thank you.
I do wonder how the age of the Puma shoe compared to the Competitor model used could have impacted the result. The longer the polymer materials are stressed the greater the likelihood of a performance difference. If the two shoes were provided brand new then this difference would be down to the material and design difference and that would be great for Puma in this case.
Honestly there are so many great race day shoes. One of if not the biggest factor in terms of the right shoe is which one feels best for the distance. Running a race is both mental and physical and if the shoe feels good and has me feeling like a rock star I have the best chance of running my best
Very interesting. Reminds me of when Reebok invited myself, as owner of The Complete Runner UK, and others from Europe out to Boston to "pick our brains". Ref the testing I thnk we can assume that the "Competitor Shoe" was another high stacked "super shoe". What might have been even more interesting as well was a comparison between the Puma Nitro and a much lower stacked shoe with simple say EVA midsole of the same weight as the Puma. New versus old ! Terry Lonergan. (2.25 in Adidas Oregon shoe 1983 London)
Thanks for this Ben. I'm considering getting my first pair of carbon-plated shoes (still not 100% decided whether it is worth it for a recreational runner like myself), but I find it hard to choose. This Puma shoe seems a decent option, and it also looks pretty good in my opinion. A minor consideration perhaps, but some of the racing shoes look huge and weird.
A carbon shoe is a good investment for anyone who puts the effort into there training and wants the best performance on race day in my opinion. Have you thought of vinted maybe? Could get a second hand pair and see if they are for you?
I just wanted to say that I love your channel 😁🏃🏻. You are a fantastic youtuber and I enjoy following you through your running journey - I recently started running a year ago properly and I LOVE IT! My current PB's are: 5k - 19:55 10k - 42:01 Half M - 1:39:18 (only done 2) I'm on a mission to be able to compete with the people who win the races that I compete in!! 💪🏃🏻
I doubt anyone would feel a 1.8% difference in running economy, but it's definitely enough to make a difference at the margins for runners who are pushing their limits.
Hey ben love the new vid, but could you please do a video on the best shoes/spikes for the upcoming xc season. I am 13 and well I have always had Nike but I would love to hear your opinions as you obviously have used a lot of spikes/shoes. I would be greatfull for this but if you don't read comments its ok
Great video with all the geeky science stuff involved. At the sharp end of the stick this stuff will make a difference, 1% is 4th to podium for example. For everyday runners we need to see more content out there about the almost negative impact a soft foam carbon plated shoe would have at 5hr marathon pace say, so people can make a better choice on their footwear rather than being bombarded with super shoes that work against their biomechanics, when they can't generate the same speed or force needed to get the most out of the shoe.
7:25 you have to bear in mind psychological priming too. You've been primed to think the Puma should be faster so unless you were blinded and didn't know which shoe was which, this would factor into your belief about it (even if only slightly) A good test protocol on the whole though!
Yeah this was true! I think however id still have know which was which. Could certainly be beneficial on two shoes say I’d never tried before though :)
How old were the competitor shoe? Would a neutral venue with neutral testers be more fair? Is this treadmill the same one that Nike and adidas, and ASICS use? .. I’m not sure the purpose of the video apart from being directed to by puma ?.. I think the only way to be somewhat fair is to run a race in them?
Hey Ben, thanks a lot. Very interesting content to see testing in Puma lab and even opportunity to compare DV3 Elite with competitor racing super shoe. I'm leaning to Puma more and more, I like how they developed over last copule of years and looks they have better pricing than competition. So do you think now DV3 Elite is really fully comparable or even can be better for some runners for long distance races such as marathon, half or maybe 10K? All the Best, Peter from Slovakia
Did you give away the competitor shoe at around 2.06 into the video? Ni.....nitro lab? As you mentioned the sample size is obviously pretty small but interesting results. Great video!
Really interesting video! I'm curious, would the wearability of your competitors carbon plate have an affect on the test? Lets say you brought in a shoe that you had run 2 marathons in, and the Deviate Elite 3 is fresh out of the box - would this have an impact on the running economy? Just food for thought I guess.
The competitors shoe had been worn for 50miles so it still felt very much as it did out the box but in hindsight for a fully fair test both should have been new :)
I have the Deviate Nitro Elite 2 and the Deviate 2 and the fit is perfect in both; have they shrunk the toe box volume in the Deviate Nitro Elite 3 like they have in the Deviate Nitro 3 vs the Deviate Nitro 2? I just sent the Nitro 3 back. As all shoe manufacturers don't cater half sizes for over the US13, it rules out choosing another size; instead they lose a customer.
Not as such no. Celebrated with a parkrun last weekend and a meal out with the family. Plenty of more content to come though. Play button in the post :)
For what it's worth my personal experience with the shoe is a positive and I am way way slower than Ben. I have gained a measurable improvement over their previous DV8 Nitro Elite 2 model. I can't afford to test 10 different super shoes so it becomes a price point test as well. And these are the least expensive (nothing's cheap these days, so least expensive is the best term) super shoe going. I am able to run more often with less fatigue and less injury which gives me hope for the Triathlon season. It's also a very easy shoe to get on, so T2 involves very few swear words now.
Dude. if you look at the unit of measurement at 11:54 - mL O2/kg/min, that's the same unit of measurement of Vo2 max, right? that basically means that Ben runs at 3:25/km at around A THIRD of his Vo2 max. Stunning. Or am I missing something here ?
I’m not an expert but that doesn’t seem quite right to me :) I’d say marathon pace feels about 70% in terms of effort ao would expect that to be much higher than a third :)
If someone is used to running in 4mm drop shoes, do you think they would see a slight performance drop from running in a 8mm drop shoe, because muscles are engaged a bit differently?
I personally don’t see a difference in performance as such but just how the load is spread. A really agressive drop shoe for me often leads to sore quads for example
I don't understand one thing: she says first that the improvement in running economy has no direct one to one correlation to running performance. She then goes on to say you had a 1.8% improvement in running economy which translates to a specific predicted performance time. So, which is it? No direct correlation or yes direct correlation?
Hello. 🍁🤩KAMAL/64 years old Sorocaba/SP/BR🤩🍁 I'm in doubt between PUMA DEVIATE NITRO 2️⃣ or PUMA DEVIATE NITRO 3️⃣ To run 3 times a week. 2aF/16km 4aF/19km 6aF/21or24km. Pace 7.4 to 5.8 I run because I like it. To maintain health. I try to evolve and overcome my limits, not others. What's your suggestion between the two? THANK YOU for your kindness in responding. I wait
I'm torn between getting a pair of these and the Edge Paris, I want them for sprint distance triathlon. I am a cadence runner (Edge) but the price point on these and obvious upgrades and performance data his hard to ignore.....any advice? Or could you do a comparison review maybe? Thanks
Should have brought a brand new competitor shoe and not a used one to make the comparison fair (i.e. AP3 out of the box as well). This did not prove much of anything.
Steps/min 2.94 says at 13::15? That's per second in reality. I don't like to see anything that points to lack of attention to detail. I still like this show though and itching to buy it:)
I have the DNE3 and I smashed by old parkrun PB by just over a minute the weekend before last. I think 45 seconds of that was purely because of the shoes. They’re incredible
To many mistakes for such a small amount of slides from Puma 😢 Step frequency meant to be in steps/sec and in the running performance triangle they weren’t be able to write it properly ;) PS Your work is great, btw! Thanks for video ;)
Curious to know if your running economy declined over the 6 intervals according to the data? Seems like the spread in the data points was a lot more than 2%.
The testing wasn't completely clear between the 3 runners tested. Was the competitor shoe the same for all 3 of you? If not the percentage comparisons between the 3 of you doesn't really say a whole lot.
So it’s settled! We’ll see the sub 2:20 in the nitro elite! Just need a full yellow fit now! Fastest banana there ever was!
🍌
nope
ironically a lower oxygen consumption could mean a higher production of lactate leading to faster fatigue and overall slower time
Great video thanks. Shame you didn't also do the fast r 👆😅
How I wish 4:30/km is my easy pace 😂 Great content as always, Ben!
I think what this shows is that there are lots of good options for high spec race shoes now and that competition will help keep prices down.
Let’s hope so as things have certainly got out of hand of late
If only there were some Boston Marathon related clue as to what the 'Competitor' shoe is😂
I run in the Competitor but also have earlier versions of the Puma Deviate Nitro which are the most comfortable super shoes around. Good to know they are now serious competition for the bigger brands.
A very useful exercise thank you.
@@tworunningbrooms😂 u picked up on the PB competitor shoe. Had me going back and watching a couple older videos to remind myself 👍
You wore the adios pro 3 last year at the Boston marathon in the blood red color way I remember wherein you had met kipchoge🎉🎉
There are lots of red supershoes that’s all I’m going to say :)
@@BenIsRunningI’m guessing the Metaspeed sky/edge Paris 😉
I do wonder how the age of the Puma shoe compared to the Competitor model used could have impacted the result. The longer the polymer materials are stressed the greater the likelihood of a performance difference. If the two shoes were provided brand new then this difference would be down to the material and design difference and that would be great for Puma in this case.
He has bought this shoe many times, so it's not his oldest pair 😅
Yeh would be interesting the difference in a nitro elite that's been worn for a few months compared to a brand new one
Puma's running trainers are banging, the velocity nitro is exceptional
2 or 3?
The velocity nitro 3 isnt working for me, too firm and little response, compared to speed 4
Great vid Ben, this Puma appears for sure from all tests to be a very very decent racing trainer! Thanks for the detailed vid ❤
Been looking forwards to this ever since you started posting. about it on IG. Looks like a super cool process
Hope you enjoyed it :)
Great video! And nice play button in the background of the office!
Goodluckkkkkk. Keepsafe on your travels and run.
10:25 enjoyed the little easter egg: "running perfROmance"
Nice to see you in the Ekiden run🤗
Honestly there are so many great race day shoes. One of if not the biggest factor in terms of the right shoe is which one feels best for the distance. Running a race is both mental and physical and if the shoe feels good and has me feeling like a rock star I have the best chance of running my best
This was Addi vs Rudi 😂😂
We all know the other shoe is the ASICS METASPEED SKY PARIS.
😂
Very interesting. Reminds me of when Reebok invited myself, as owner of The Complete Runner UK, and others from Europe out to Boston to "pick our brains". Ref the testing I thnk we can assume that the "Competitor Shoe" was another high stacked "super shoe". What might have been even more interesting as well was a comparison between the Puma Nitro and a much lower stacked shoe with simple say EVA midsole of the same weight as the Puma. New versus old ! Terry Lonergan. (2.25 in Adidas Oregon shoe 1983 London)
Not sure if there is a difference between used vs new shoe at play here. But those Puma´s seem to have a very nice pop, that´s for sure.
Thanks for this Ben. I'm considering getting my first pair of carbon-plated shoes (still not 100% decided whether it is worth it for a recreational runner like myself), but I find it hard to choose. This Puma shoe seems a decent option, and it also looks pretty good in my opinion. A minor consideration perhaps, but some of the racing shoes look huge and weird.
A carbon shoe is a good investment for anyone who puts the effort into there training and wants the best performance on race day in my opinion. Have you thought of vinted maybe? Could get a second hand pair and see if they are for you?
@@BenIsRunning I hadn't considered second hand, but I understand the 'life span' of carbon-plated shoes is also much shorter?
12:34 "These numbers seem, they can seem small." Hell no, It's 2 minutes. I'd take them all the time, lol
2 minutes for the same effort, sounds good to me 😂
I just wanted to say that I love your channel 😁🏃🏻. You are a fantastic youtuber and I enjoy following you through your running journey
- I recently started running a year ago properly and I LOVE IT!
My current PB's are:
5k - 19:55
10k - 42:01
Half M - 1:39:18 (only done 2)
I'm on a mission to be able to compete with the people who win the races that I compete in!! 💪🏃🏻
Please keep going! Big fan here
What a amazing opportunity keep it up man!
Thanks! Will do!
a very interesting racing shoe for sure! nice vid, ben!
Another brilliant video Ben, thank you 😊
Interested to see how your coros data compared to the labs for heart rate etc. if you noticed at all?
Very cool video and cool concept from Puma. Kind of interesting they can measure you are 1.8% more efficient but can't really pinpoint why though haha
I really like Puma shoes - I'll definitely try and get these when they go on sale
Well done Ben, great vlog
Thanks 👍
I doubt anyone would feel a 1.8% difference in running economy, but it's definitely enough to make a difference at the margins for runners who are pushing their limits.
Yes very valid point! For an elite this could be the difference between making a team and not :)
Hey ben love the new vid, but could you please do a video on the best shoes/spikes for the upcoming xc season. I am 13 and well I have always had Nike but I would love to hear your opinions as you obviously have used a lot of spikes/shoes. I would be greatfull for this but if you don't read comments its ok
Adidas Adios Pro 3 🤫
Yeah, he gave us clues: th-cam.com/video/AW7tR5pj_Xs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Wqb-RguTqLurULuF
My favourite shoe as well as the puma FWD elite nitro. I wear puma for 5-10k and adidas for my marathon
I think if he wore the metaspeed sky paris then they would be the better shoe
@@jacklafferty6654his 2:24 PB were in the Adidas
So interesting 🤓 I like so much this nerdy stuff!
Great video with all the geeky science stuff involved.
At the sharp end of the stick this stuff will make a difference, 1% is 4th to podium for example.
For everyday runners we need to see more content out there about the almost negative impact a soft foam carbon plated shoe would have at 5hr marathon pace say, so people can make a better choice on their footwear rather than being bombarded with super shoes that work against their biomechanics, when they can't generate the same speed or force needed to get the most out of the shoe.
7:25 you have to bear in mind psychological priming too. You've been primed to think the Puma should be faster so unless you were blinded and didn't know which shoe was which, this would factor into your belief about it (even if only slightly)
A good test protocol on the whole though!
Yeah this was true! I think however id still have know which was which. Could certainly be beneficial on two shoes say I’d never tried before though :)
Yup, this has been historically a big issue in athletics research, including nutrition
How old were the competitor shoe? Would a neutral venue with neutral testers be more fair? Is this treadmill the same one that Nike and adidas, and ASICS use? .. I’m not sure the purpose of the video apart from being directed to by puma ?.. I think the only way to be somewhat fair is to run a race in them?
why should he think the puma is faster when he has a pr that he KNOWS with the competitor shoe
@@Robzabest25 good point, but it’s not a fair test, hence why he can’t show the competitor shoes. Meaning it’s irrelevant
great video ben!
Lots of insights. Thanks for the vid.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I like the scientific content lately
Really enjoyed making it and plenty more to come in my training :)
Bought the velocity nitro 3 and deviate 3 (not the elite version) and I absolutely love the shoes
was the shoe that you brought new???
You should have done a comparison run in your daily trainer.
Hey Ben, thanks a lot. Very interesting content to see testing in Puma lab and even opportunity to compare DV3 Elite with competitor racing super shoe. I'm leaning to Puma more and more, I like how they developed over last copule of years and looks they have better pricing than competition. So do you think now DV3 Elite is really fully comparable or even can be better for some runners for long distance races such as marathon, half or maybe 10K? All the Best, Peter from Slovakia
2.22 from 2,24 I find that hard to believe but still puma does have great running shoes atm.
Great video and interesting results.
Thank you!
Interesting good video that, nice one Puma.
Great to see Theia 3D in use. Big dislike of starting the figure at 19.0 rather than 0 to skew the visual of what the difference is.
Think it was more just to provide a visual representation than to skew but understand your point
That's a lot more efficient. Ben, please try the fast R elite 2 as well.
Did you give away the competitor shoe at around 2.06 into the video? Ni.....nitro lab? As you mentioned the sample size is obviously pretty small but interesting results. Great video!
amazing lab
Really interesting video! I'm curious, would the wearability of your competitors carbon plate have an affect on the test? Lets say you brought in a shoe that you had run 2 marathons in, and the Deviate Elite 3 is fresh out of the box - would this have an impact on the running economy? Just food for thought I guess.
The competitors shoe had been worn for 50miles so it still felt very much as it did out the box but in hindsight for a fully fair test both should have been new :)
I hope Ben tests these shoes at his upcoming competitions. Then we'll see how good these sneakers are in real running conditions.
Ben, I would be really interested to hear you talk about your 5 year goals. Will you give being an elite marathoner a go? Could you switch to ultras?
Interesting vid, like these science stuff😊
Glad you enjoyed!
Thanks for this, puma has been on my mind in regards of what shoe to buy. Tossed between puma nitro, Adidas adizero and ASICS skyparis.
No problem, glad you found it helpful
Is the nitro elite 3 a good replacement for saucony pro 3 ?how do they compare?
aint no way one shoe gon be better for different runners
Hei Ben, what is that white daily trainer you use for your warm up run on the treadmill?
I have the Deviate Nitro Elite 2 and the Deviate 2 and the fit is perfect in both; have they shrunk the toe box volume in the Deviate Nitro Elite 3 like they have in the Deviate Nitro 3 vs the Deviate Nitro 2?
I just sent the Nitro 3 back.
As all shoe manufacturers don't cater half sizes for over the US13, it rules out choosing another size; instead they lose a customer.
for sure his competitor model was alphafly
Hi ben is there going to be a 100k special like a live stream or something? Great to see the progress you've made 👍 been subbed since 10k.
Not as such no. Celebrated with a parkrun last weekend and a meal out with the family. Plenty of more content to come though. Play button in the post :)
I absolutely love this shoe might get a 2nd pair
Great vid!Were both shoes fresh out of the box? Or did both already have some milage?(if so how many for each)
Pumas were brand new and the competitors I’d ran around 50miles in
Next time you visit Puma ask them if can try running against their PUMA BeatBot on the track!
If your striving for Tech to improve it deflects the real work an elite athlete has to endure
You wore the competitor first so you were more warmed-up to the speed 😂🙂↕️
But in all honesty the Puma’ do look like a great shoe
For what it's worth my personal experience with the shoe is a positive and I am way way slower than Ben. I have gained a measurable improvement over their previous DV8 Nitro Elite 2 model. I can't afford to test 10 different super shoes so it becomes a price point test as well. And these are the least expensive (nothing's cheap these days, so least expensive is the best term) super shoe going. I am able to run more often with less fatigue and less injury which gives me hope for the Triathlon season. It's also a very easy shoe to get on, so T2 involves very few swear words now.
I also much prefer the Elite3 over the previous version
Dude. if you look at the unit of measurement at 11:54 - mL O2/kg/min, that's the same unit of measurement of Vo2 max, right? that basically means that Ben runs at 3:25/km at around A THIRD of his Vo2 max. Stunning.
Or am I missing something here ?
I’m not an expert but that doesn’t seem quite right to me :) I’d say marathon pace feels about 70% in terms of effort ao would expect that to be much higher than a third :)
Great channel Ben! May i ask how old you are?
26
If someone is used to running in 4mm drop shoes, do you think they would see a slight performance drop from running in a 8mm drop shoe, because muscles are engaged a bit differently?
I personally don’t see a difference in performance as such but just how the load is spread. A really agressive drop shoe for me often leads to sore quads for example
@@BenIsRunning Appreciate the insight. Does the soreness develop over long distances, or is it DOMS that kicks in later?
I don't understand one thing: she says first that the improvement in running economy has no direct one to one correlation to running performance. She then goes on to say you had a 1.8% improvement in running economy which translates to a specific predicted performance time. So, which is it? No direct correlation or yes direct correlation?
Asics metaspeed sky Paris👍
We're the competitor shoes new or worn? I missed that but if it was stated.
It wasn’t stated no. I’d ran 50miles in the competitor and only a few in the puma’s 👍
What was the mileage on each shoe?
Hello.
🍁🤩KAMAL/64 years old Sorocaba/SP/BR🤩🍁 I'm in doubt between PUMA DEVIATE NITRO 2️⃣
or
PUMA DEVIATE NITRO 3️⃣
To run 3 times a week. 2aF/16km
4aF/19km
6aF/21or24km.
Pace 7.4 to 5.8
I run because I like it.
To maintain health.
I try to evolve and overcome my limits, not others.
What's your suggestion between the two?
THANK YOU for your kindness in responding. I wait
The only thing I would like to know is how many miles were run on the comp shoe vs the puma shoe
50miles
I'm torn between getting a pair of these and the Edge Paris, I want them for sprint distance triathlon. I am a cadence runner (Edge) but the price point on these and obvious upgrades and performance data his hard to ignore.....any advice? Or could you do a comparison review maybe? Thanks
I’m a big fan of both shoes! The deviate, the sky Paris (for my stride) and the alphafly og are my personal top tier list at the moment :)
Puma shut up and take my money 😂
Looks like the Asics Metaspeed Sky Paris that are blurred?
(Edit: I guessed this 3 mins into the video - they're actually the Adidas Adiós Pro 3)
Pretty sure here wore the adidas adios pro 3 for his marathon pb, so it's that I think but maybe not
Agreed, I think it's the Adidas Pro 3 too
It’s the metaspeed he wore them at Copenhagen
@@wilkin976 Yes I think you're right - I wasn't familiar with that colourway which is what made me think it was the Asics at first!
Adidas Addis Pro 3 which he ran in Boston 2023
Just say the rival shoe. We're all grown ups here, Puma knows they aren't the only shoe vendor around.
Would the difference have been there with a brand new pair of competitor shoe?
Valid point. Looks like I need to go back :)
Should have brought a brand new competitor shoe and not a used one to make the comparison fair (i.e. AP3 out of the box as well). This did not prove much of anything.
ironically these are the two shoes i'm trying to decide witch one i'm going to buy for my next half-marathon!
Do you have any training shoe recommendations?
There’s plenty out there! My favourites right now are the Puma deviate 3, On cloudmonster and the ASICS Superblast :)
Steps/min 2.94 says at 13::15? That's per second in reality. I don't like to see anything that points to lack of attention to detail. I still like this show though and itching to buy it:)
Was a "competitor" shoe new from the box?
It was not no, about 50miles. In hindsight would certainly of helped if it was fresh for a fair test
Very interesting. I do think Puma are a bit of a sleeping giant…..
The competitor is the Alphafly 3 isn't it?
It's the adios pro 3
How was the fast R2 shoe Ben?
Great shoe but think I prefer the deviate personally as offers a similar energy return but is a little lighter
How many miles u got on your comp? I think the difference would be significantly lower if u use both shoes brand new 🤔🤷🏼♂️
50 miles in the competitors. Certainly a valid point thanks
Adios pro 3 vs Puma Deviate Elite 3
I have the DNE3 and I smashed by old parkrun PB by just over a minute the weekend before last. I think 45 seconds of that was purely because of the shoes. They’re incredible
Impressive stuff! They certainly are a level above the previous puma racing shoes
What's your vo2Max?
61
10000% Metaspeed Sky
it's not. It's the adios pro 3 which he ran his PB at boston 2023
the shoe is not 100% fully blurred, you can literally see that the end of the shoe is adios pro 3 if you pause at the right frame
@@AG_UofT oh! Interesting.
why can't you name the other shoe
To many mistakes for such a small amount of slides from Puma 😢
Step frequency meant to be in steps/sec and in the running performance triangle they weren’t be able to write it properly ;)
PS Your work is great, btw! Thanks for video ;)
"RUNNING PERFROMANCE"
@@DrSlipstream yup
Laura produced the results and presentation over lunch so I personally can see past a few grammar errors 😂
@@BenIsRunning if the lunch was provided with a recovery amount of🍺 for both, it's ok then )))
Curious to know if your running economy declined over the 6 intervals according to the data? Seems like the spread in the data points was a lot more than 2%.
Would you also say that you were 1.8% better in the other 2 points of that triangle?
Vo2 max and lactate threshold can’t be influenced by footwear as I was told :)
@@BenIsRunning not in that test but surely if you were to train in the puma you would naturally improve vo2 if your efficiency is better.
nik..e.😳 hmm..at the Nitro Lab
Metaspeed sky paris
I think it should be 2.94 - 2.95 steps/s and not steps/min (13:10 timestamp)...
Indeed 😂
The testing wasn't completely clear between the 3 runners tested. Was the competitor shoe the same for all 3 of you? If not the percentage comparisons between the 3 of you doesn't really say a whole lot.
All of us brought a different super shoe, we’d all previously ran pbs. One I guess we deemed to be the best for us :)
Deviate NITRO™ Elite 3 Running Shoes via ADIZERO ADIOS PRO 3 SHOES