Oh god the cliff farming made me remember the dark seer vacuum stacking back in the day.... Great video per usual! I love using your videos to teach friends the differences, and also trying to steer them away from Dota; they don't need the suffering I subject myself to every day.
Give me those NP players that would teleport to the cliff ward spot on radiant topside to farm the ancient camp near mid lane at level 1 😂 (both of these are way closer to top lane between t1 and t2 towers than to mid lane now)
Also, neutral creeps in dota can be controlled by heroes using specific abilities and items. As mentioned, they have their unique abilities which you can control and use to your advantage.
You can kite out the camps on league you just have to kite it out to the max range in one direction then kite it back the other way into the range where it spawns to keep it from healing. The yellow bar running out above it shows you when you need to get it back into camp range and kite the other way. Its also important to do things like keep the small krug stuck trying to pathfind on the large krug. Riot adding jungle pets made clearing a lot easier though.
I have now binged a ton of your videos and i gotta say, I really want to get back into DotA again! It feels like all of the problems i had with the game all those years ago (been almost a decade at this point) have been fixed, not to mention fixing the problems i STILL have with PC LoL! My laptop is getting fixed atm but as soon as i got it back i’m gonna look into doing that new tutorial system as a refresher, and if i can i’d love to look into finding you in the client for coaching! Phenomenal vids and i’m hype to get back in 👍
You forgot something. After a Team Slays 4 Dragons The team which slays them gets a permanent buff depending on what elemental drake was slain. After A certain amount of dragons are slayed and as the end game approaches the Elder Dragon Spawns. He is one of the hardest league bosses. After slain the team which slays elder Drake Gets a buff. It Auto Executes any Enemy Champion below a certain health and is generally the strongest Buff for Offence and Teamfights or 1v1
I didn't forget it. I chose to leave out a lot of jungle objectives in both games, because they were going to bloat out the video with small things that don't add that much to the comparison imo.
I think League's objectives do a much better job at "guiding" players towards victory by encouraging certain strategic decisions. As you mentioned, the Aegis is only as useful as it's wielder, but also it does not actively encourage any type of decision making. In many mid to late game scenarios it's very hard to say what the correct decision is -- even for pro players watching their replays, they probably debate with their teams on what the correct decisions would have been.
imo it's not that they do it better, there's just lesser options. You get baron? split push, 5 man any lane or dragon. I don't understand what you mean by not 'actively encouraging' any type of decision making. It's more on the fact that there are so many options to choose from, you'd rather an easier and more obvious path, hence why League 'guides' more, as there are only a couple of things you CAN do after getting baron. Dota while not being obvious on what is the right move, does in fact encourage decision making, just not the type you are use to or comfortable with. Are the teams even, are we ahead, can we split push, do we look for a pick off, we can try and high ground for racks then back off, do we invade jungle to kill the carry then try for racks. Decisions are actively being thought of or made, it's just that each one has a varying level of success depending on the factors/variables of the current game.
This is because team drafts also matter to roshan aegis timings. Most of the time the first Aegis allows your team map control and safety in farming while the 2 is typically used to break high ground and 3-4 are used to end the game. If you’re a mid game team though you can break high ground first aegis and end the game on 2nd aegis. Late game teams will use first aegis on their mid laner so they can continue to be aggressive for kills to farm while the carry farms jungle/lanes. 2nd aegis will go either carry or mid while other gets cheese just draft dependent and 3-4 is usually to carry and cheese to mid. Aegis = map control in various ways Nashor = pretty much straight forward just split push. No other decision making to be made other than taking dragon while someone shoves top really. Why waste time running around jg for kills when you can just force them to back by shoving with baron buff? Clear cut and dry nothing special to really do with baron buff.
one thing i take from those lol/dota comparison is how brighter dota2 is, lol was way more colorful in my memory but in side by side it's totally washed out. anyway those side by side edits are very smooth
(Noobie lvl) I’ve played a fair few matches in dota2 where we or enemy slay Roshan but I’ve never seen the walk out animation (probably bc my teammates who start the objective knew about it), that’s legit the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in a moba
You forgot to mention that you can block dota 2 camps from spawning and that you can stack them. Also you can pull the minion wave into the camps so they fight against each other , denying exp and gold from enemy team and tanking dmg for you.
fun fact, the reason why Roshan got two homes is because of the special items, refresher shard and aghanim blessing. Refresher only drops on top which is night time and aghs on bot which is day time
Do not spread misinformation, that's not why he has 2 homes. It's because, as the rosh pit switches sides, the meta starts shifting heavily toward top or bottom half of the map. At the TI 2022, fighting for second roshan was so important to team strategy, that the bottom lane was often fully ignored past 15 minutes, except for as a chore to defend / farm up.
I just want to put this here as a person who mains jungle in League, you dont have to "just tank" the jungle monsters. Kindred and Lillia for example can easily use their mobility to walk circles around the monsters ignoring most damage they can do and others can do the 3 for 2 rule. Basically after every third of your autos you can stop back slightly canceling the monsters auto. this doesn't impede your clear time and negates some damage.
But, can you as a kindred fight the jungle without taking ANY damage? If you must take damage, then you are still tanking the mob, just more efficiently than what I showed in the video. in dota, melee farming heroes will tank a hit every 10 seconds or so, more if the jungle creeps have high range, but ranged heroes dont have to tank much of anything except against the hardest camps... those spawn with higher ranged damage.
@@TZAR_POTATO Yes and no, early game you will take maybe 4-5 hits but that is also why most junglers have some form of inbuilt sustain, on top of the jungle item gives even more. As per my previous examples Kindred's w has a passive where after charging up with moving and attacking her next attack will heal them. While yes some do not have sustain in their kits they have other forms of survivability, most of these being tanks such as amumu tanking flat less damage from attacks. Edit: Also, after first clear you will be around 75% max hp by the end of it (only if you are playing a jungler or a character that has the capacity to jungle (like Morgana)), from that point onwards your base kit (with only the jungle item) will be able to keep you topped up. More often than not after a big fight and getting low I will farm a handful of camps can walk back out of the jungle full health. Edit 2: Also after rewatching the video I noticed you were using Ashe with only Kraken Slayer as an example. I understand it is to keep the two example characters similar in both kit and how they look but I feel like it gives an unfair prospective, this is on top of the lack of Jungle item would gives additional damage, exp, gold, and healing while fighting and taking jungle camps. Sorry if this seems a little nit picky, I love your content, but I feel that due to a lack of knowledge more in-depth knowledge (like how if you start with the jungle item from minute 0-20 the XP and Gold you get from lane minions is reduced based on game time) on leagues Jungle mechanics that the prospective isn't that fair.
I didn't want to include a jungler item in this episode, since the focus is on the units and not on the jungler role, that's in the next episode :) @@dragonfire4575
@@TZAR_POTATO OH! Okay, sorry. I still feel like it should have been mentioned, because to me it just seemed like you were saying all you can do is stand there and tank it.
Don't know if you remember me. Probably not. But i'm the guy who said he uninstalled this game when he found out the game didn't work at more than 1 fps in the main menu which made no sense with the pc I had. Turns out the problem was the game had opened a global chat from who knows what damn city from the borders of Afganistan where lots of people spammed discord links and weird shit in the chat who made the game go from 240fps to fucking 1 fps. Crazy stuff xdd. I'll try the game now and see if I can actually play this and enjoy it as I wanted form the beggining, your videos made me want to try the game out.
Nashor's arena looks cool, I'd like Roshan to have more cool home too. Also Tormentors could be designed as some monster or creature too, don't know why they chose cube. League jungle looks kinda small and empty to be honest and you can't interact with it much except for just hitting those creeps.
True that. Baron's arena is sick, especially since it's pointing down the entrance. We all have an isometric view from one side of the map, so having it be reversed is weird sometimes!
Ngl, the Tormentors reminded me of that one Human Building in Warcraft III after seeing all the Arcana skins from Faceless Void, Razor, and others resemble a lot like of the Warcraft III units.
It's fun to see these comparisons, but they are swayed a little too much in the perspective of "I'm a LoL fanboy who plays against low MMR DotA scrubs and bots, not grasping the game yet". A couple of omissions I noticed: 1. While you mentioned that lane creeps can aggro juingle creeps, you did not mention the huge importance of creep pulling to maintain lane equilibrium. 2. Roshan is there from the start, meaning he can be killed earlier on (under the right circumstances). 3. Roshan's Aegis drop is to be equipped by a single player, but it enables pushing just like in LoL. In fact, an Aegis might be the only tool enabling ones team to push high ground in a safe manner. 4. Roshan's movement is not bizarre at all. In fact, his previous static locations where found to upset the game balance. In addition, more dynamic events create more fun and unpredictability. A game with more complexity can be more fun to master. Dunno if you know, but both DotA and League are quite old games - this is a fun change.
Bro the guy also missing jungle plant that work like buff for both team to use and, a one special camp. Also missing all the new jungle stuff inculde one boss camp, new power up buff and 3 new type of Baron in lol
Pit vision is a huge difference between baron and roshan. You cannot put wards inside roshan pit but you can for baron. Also roshan pit is perma fog of war unless a unit from your team is inside the pit. This works both ways as if you’re inside the pit you can’t see outside the pit except areas where your team already has vision.
what about elder dragon? arguably much more important objective than baron, usually means an insant game over. and the over arching larger objective of killing drakes which is to gain the dragon soul !! very entertaining video though
As I said at the end, I skipped over quite a few objectives from both games. Since elder dragon doesn't even happen every game, I decided to not include it.
It's true both games are moba but the difference between them huge, lol similar to ARPG dota more like RTS, it's like you're trying to convince COD players to move to Arma
Since the new pet upgrade, any champ can jungle, and yuumi was doing it so well people started going for that until a massive nerf. Now, it's still possible but slow.
When you said roshan leaves to the other side of the map, I was not expecting him to actually walk out and use a teleporter
me too, i was expecting roshan to walk all the way to the other side but roshan said, "why work harder, you can work smarter?"
Also, League does have neutral ward. It's the Scuttle Crab.
Ah true! I didn't really talk about scuttle that much... but the ward it gives is so tiny!!
@@TZAR_POTATO yes, but the location is nearly perfect. In the middle of the river between the lanes, right on the entrances of alcoves.
Same for Dota. Neutral ones that can be captured by any team and much, much more
@@TZAR_POTATO😅😅
@@TZAR_POTATO it also gives movespeed which is useful for roaming
Oh god the cliff farming made me remember the dark seer vacuum stacking back in the day....
Great video per usual! I love using your videos to teach friends the differences, and also trying to steer them away from Dota; they don't need the suffering I subject myself to every day.
HAhahaha! Bring them into the fold, brother!
Give me those NP players that would teleport to the cliff ward spot on radiant topside to farm the ancient camp near mid lane at level 1 😂 (both of these are way closer to top lane between t1 and t2 towers than to mid lane now)
Let them suffer, LET THEM SUFFER MORE CANCER!!!!
Also, neutral creeps in dota can be controlled by heroes using specific abilities and items. As mentioned, they have their unique abilities which you can control and use to your advantage.
More of that in the next episode.
See cliff farming, immediately remembered Furion cliff farming back in the day haha
I love your comparison videos between league and Dota never seen any channel does this as well as u do incredible job ( Dota player )
Thank you, I try hard to bridge the gap, and make friends between communities.
You can kite out the camps on league you just have to kite it out to the max range in one direction then kite it back the other way into the range where it spawns to keep it from healing. The yellow bar running out above it shows you when you need to get it back into camp range and kite the other way. Its also important to do things like keep the small krug stuck trying to pathfind on the large krug. Riot adding jungle pets made clearing a lot easier though.
Fun fact. Nashor is named after Roshan. It's just "backwards".
Check your English again… Nashor forwards is Rohsan not Roshan 😂
@@13YoJest13 /naʃɔɹ/ flipped is /ɹɔʃan/, just use your ears
4:42 you sneaky potato ;)
So your answer is, "Yes."
Really good video. As I have played both games a LOT of hours I prefer dota's jungle but both game's jungles are fun in their own way.
Hope you like my other comparison vids too!
@@TZAR_POTATO I will check them out sometime
I have now binged a ton of your videos and i gotta say, I really want to get back into DotA again! It feels like all of the problems i had with the game all those years ago (been almost a decade at this point) have been fixed, not to mention fixing the problems i STILL have with PC LoL! My laptop is getting fixed atm but as soon as i got it back i’m gonna look into doing that new tutorial system as a refresher, and if i can i’d love to look into finding you in the client for coaching! Phenomenal vids and i’m hype to get back in 👍
Find me on discord, not in the client ;)
You forgot something. After a Team Slays 4 Dragons The team which slays them gets a permanent buff depending on what elemental drake was slain. After A certain amount of dragons are slayed and as the end game approaches the Elder Dragon Spawns. He is one of the hardest league bosses. After slain the team which slays elder Drake Gets a buff. It Auto Executes any Enemy Champion below a certain health and is generally the strongest Buff for Offence and Teamfights or 1v1
I didn't forget it. I chose to leave out a lot of jungle objectives in both games, because they were going to bloat out the video with small things that don't add that much to the comparison imo.
I think League's objectives do a much better job at "guiding" players towards victory by encouraging certain strategic decisions. As you mentioned, the Aegis is only as useful as it's wielder, but also it does not actively encourage any type of decision making. In many mid to late game scenarios it's very hard to say what the correct decision is -- even for pro players watching their replays, they probably debate with their teams on what the correct decisions would have been.
imo it's not that they do it better, there's just lesser options.
You get baron? split push, 5 man any lane or dragon.
I don't understand what you mean by not 'actively encouraging' any type of decision making. It's more on the fact that there are so many options to choose from, you'd rather an easier and more obvious path, hence why League 'guides' more, as there are only a couple of things you CAN do after getting baron.
Dota while not being obvious on what is the right move, does in fact encourage decision making, just not the type you are use to or comfortable with. Are the teams even, are we ahead, can we split push, do we look for a pick off, we can try and high ground for racks then back off, do we invade jungle to kill the carry then try for racks.
Decisions are actively being thought of or made, it's just that each one has a varying level of success depending on the factors/variables of the current game.
This is because team drafts also matter to roshan aegis timings. Most of the time the first Aegis allows your team map control and safety in farming while the 2 is typically used to break high ground and 3-4 are used to end the game.
If you’re a mid game team though you can break high ground first aegis and end the game on 2nd aegis.
Late game teams will use first aegis on their mid laner so they can continue to be aggressive for kills to farm while the carry farms jungle/lanes. 2nd aegis will go either carry or mid while other gets cheese just draft dependent and 3-4 is usually to carry and cheese to mid.
Aegis = map control in various ways
Nashor = pretty much straight forward just split push.
No other decision making to be made other than taking dragon while someone shoves top really. Why waste time running around jg for kills when you can just force them to back by shoving with baron buff? Clear cut and dry nothing special to really do with baron buff.
I haven't played dota in a few years and seeing the roshan pit and the tp animation update shocked me to my core for some reason
Everyone was shocked when it happened!
I have 2500h on lol and 100h on dota. I enjoy both. Your content is one of the best thing i ever watch. thanks dude!
Please watch it all and enjoy!!
@@TZAR_POTATO already did :D waiting for new video. You are a king and dont stop with making videos, you will be famous one time.
@@DuckleJungle Ty ty! The next vid will be delayed a bit, i'm on vacation rn
one thing i take from those lol/dota comparison is how brighter dota2 is, lol was way more colorful in my memory but in side by side it's totally washed out. anyway those side by side edits are very smooth
LoL and DOTA are so different and so similar at the same time its insane.
That's why I made the comparison playlist. That's why I'm making this series!
Baron NASHOR ,NASHOR anagram of ROSHAN
4:42 forgive me father for i have sinned
It's so interesting how Roshan's nd Baron's buffs are so different, yet basically used for the same purpose: pushing.
Yup
(Noobie lvl) I’ve played a fair few matches in dota2 where we or enemy slay Roshan but I’ve never seen the walk out animation (probably bc my teammates who start the objective knew about it), that’s legit the funniest thing I’ve ever seen in a moba
You forgot to mention that you can block dota 2 camps from spawning and that you can stack them. Also you can pull the minion wave into the camps so they fight against each other , denying exp and gold from enemy team and tanking dmg for you.
That's not intrinsic to the jungle on its own and is covered in other videos.
fun fact, the reason why Roshan got two homes is because of the special items, refresher shard and aghanim blessing. Refresher only drops on top which is night time and aghs on bot which is day time
Do not spread misinformation, that's not why he has 2 homes. It's because, as the rosh pit switches sides, the meta starts shifting heavily toward top or bottom half of the map. At the TI 2022, fighting for second roshan was so important to team strategy, that the bottom lane was often fully ignored past 15 minutes, except for as a chore to defend / farm up.
I just want to put this here as a person who mains jungle in League, you dont have to "just tank" the jungle monsters. Kindred and Lillia for example can easily use their mobility to walk circles around the monsters ignoring most damage they can do and others can do the 3 for 2 rule. Basically after every third of your autos you can stop back slightly canceling the monsters auto. this doesn't impede your clear time and negates some damage.
But, can you as a kindred fight the jungle without taking ANY damage? If you must take damage, then you are still tanking the mob, just more efficiently than what I showed in the video. in dota, melee farming heroes will tank a hit every 10 seconds or so, more if the jungle creeps have high range, but ranged heroes dont have to tank much of anything except against the hardest camps... those spawn with higher ranged damage.
@@TZAR_POTATO Yes and no, early game you will take maybe 4-5 hits but that is also why most junglers have some form of inbuilt sustain, on top of the jungle item gives even more. As per my previous examples Kindred's w has a passive where after charging up with moving and attacking her next attack will heal them.
While yes some do not have sustain in their kits they have other forms of survivability, most of these being tanks such as amumu tanking flat less damage from attacks.
Edit: Also, after first clear you will be around 75% max hp by the end of it (only if you are playing a jungler or a character that has the capacity to jungle (like Morgana)), from that point onwards your base kit (with only the jungle item) will be able to keep you topped up. More often than not after a big fight and getting low I will farm a handful of camps can walk back out of the jungle full health.
Edit 2: Also after rewatching the video I noticed you were using Ashe with only Kraken Slayer as an example. I understand it is to keep the two example characters similar in both kit and how they look but I feel like it gives an unfair prospective, this is on top of the lack of Jungle item would gives additional damage, exp, gold, and healing while fighting and taking jungle camps. Sorry if this seems a little nit picky, I love your content, but I feel that due to a lack of knowledge more in-depth knowledge (like how if you start with the jungle item from minute 0-20 the XP and Gold you get from lane minions is reduced based on game time) on leagues Jungle mechanics that the prospective isn't that fair.
I didn't want to include a jungler item in this episode, since the focus is on the units and not on the jungler role, that's in the next episode :) @@dragonfire4575
@@TZAR_POTATO OH! Okay, sorry. I still feel like it should have been mentioned, because to me it just seemed like you were saying all you can do is stand there and tank it.
Don't know if you remember me. Probably not. But i'm the guy who said he uninstalled this game when he found out the game didn't work at more than 1 fps in the main menu which made no sense with the pc I had.
Turns out the problem was the game had opened a global chat from who knows what damn city from the borders of Afganistan where lots of people spammed discord links and weird shit in the chat who made the game go from 240fps to fucking 1 fps.
Crazy stuff xdd. I'll try the game now and see if I can actually play this and enjoy it as I wanted form the beggining, your videos made me want to try the game out.
Good luck. Also try and make sure to keep your video drivers updated.
Idk If I asked this already but you should make a vision comparison between both games
Barons full name us baron nashor, gotta love the damn near direct references
I did pause at 4:42
4:42 Yes. Yes I did
Nashor's arena looks cool, I'd like Roshan to have more cool home too. Also Tormentors could be designed as some monster or creature too, don't know why they chose cube.
League jungle looks kinda small and empty to be honest and you can't interact with it much except for just hitting those creeps.
True that. Baron's arena is sick, especially since it's pointing down the entrance. We all have an isometric view from one side of the map, so having it be reversed is weird sometimes!
Ngl, the Tormentors reminded me of that one Human Building in Warcraft III after seeing all the Arcana skins from Faceless Void, Razor, and others resemble a lot like of the Warcraft III units.
Which human build.....AHH ARCANE VAULT!! YEAH @@Magicwaterz
Yeah tormentors would look better if they don't look like wisp's parent 😂 just looks and feels weird when you interact with it
There was a time when roshan was located in the river and he had a red somewhat molten arena.
It's fun to see these comparisons, but they are swayed a little too much in the perspective of "I'm a LoL fanboy who plays against low MMR DotA scrubs and bots, not grasping the game yet". A couple of omissions I noticed:
1. While you mentioned that lane creeps can aggro juingle creeps, you did not mention the huge importance of creep pulling to maintain lane equilibrium.
2. Roshan is there from the start, meaning he can be killed earlier on (under the right circumstances).
3. Roshan's Aegis drop is to be equipped by a single player, but it enables pushing just like in LoL. In fact, an Aegis might be the only tool enabling ones team to push high ground in a safe manner.
4. Roshan's movement is not bizarre at all. In fact, his previous static locations where found to upset the game balance. In addition, more dynamic events create more fun and unpredictability. A game with more complexity can be more fun to master. Dunno if you know, but both DotA and League are quite old games - this is a fun change.
and blocking creep camps!!
Bro the guy also missing jungle plant that work like buff for both team to use and, a one special camp. Also missing all the new jungle stuff inculde one boss camp, new power up buff and 3 new type of Baron in lol
Pit vision is a huge difference between baron and roshan. You cannot put wards inside roshan pit but you can for baron. Also roshan pit is perma fog of war unless a unit from your team is inside the pit. This works both ways as if you’re inside the pit you can’t see outside the pit except areas where your team already has vision.
true
you forgot about jungle stacking on dota 2
I did say how there's a lot left out, from both games. Stacking was one of many things cut.
what about elder dragon? arguably much more important objective than baron, usually means an insant game over. and the over arching larger objective of killing drakes which is to gain the dragon soul !! very entertaining video though
As I said at the end, I skipped over quite a few objectives from both games. Since elder dragon doesn't even happen every game, I decided to not include it.
Yo fun fact: Baron last name "nashor" is "roshan" backward-ish
The jungle
Dota's jungle feel fine after a few levels
Leagues jungle feel hard until you hit a certain point
Over all pretty good video 😁👍
Glad you liked it!
@@TZAR_POTATO keep up the good work 😁✌️
u are de best
Yes, i did pause
Cliff farming is indeed cursed.
Please don't talk about lvl 1 W NP jungle, I still got nightmares
hahahaa TY for reading my iceberg
Yeah, not satisfying at all killing 1 creep like minute. Also there was strategy to kill scourge ancients with furion lvl 1. But that was too slow.
Next parts?
I know, right!? I've been slacking, sorry
Your videos are always so cool! Players of both games can learn about the other game so easily!
This is the goal! Thanks for being a fan.
Well Atleast Neutral Creeps In Dota Can Be An Allied to u If u want to kill ur enemy or just straight up Deny Everyone xD
Where tf wisdom rune
I... I paused...
;-)
yes i pause
Nice.
baron Nashor, Roshan, its te same name but backwords
Dota2 wards became limited to both team due to toxic players 😂
Not because of toxic players, but for balance. The ability to deny wards inside of spawn boxes was because of toxic players
I did not pause
...oh?
Baron cant move due to champs using baron to kill teams and tower on early seasons😂
"Yes, i paused it"
;)
Bro I used to play dota and this confused the fuck out of me, what happened to dota while I was gone lol
You left, and the devs went ham
@@TZAR_POTATO Bro when I used to play, there was only one currier per team.
yes i paused ))))
Nice
where outposts ?
Same place as the scuttle crab.
It's true both games are moba but the difference between them huge, lol similar to ARPG dota more like RTS, it's like you're trying to convince COD players to move to Arma
Well then it's a good thing I'm not here to convince anyone of moving games, only to show off their comparisons.
Elder Dragon??????
???
What about the dragon?
wtf is a jungle yuumi 😅
Since the new pet upgrade, any champ can jungle, and yuumi was doing it so well people started going for that until a massive nerf. Now, it's still possible but slow.
Ursa: Roshan impossible to solo?
Roshan is not impossible to solo, what do you mean?
@@TZAR_POTATO pick Ursa and buy lifesteal
@@AlexGuaikTV I think there's a language barrier between us, not sure what to do.
@@TZAR_POTATO he means ursa single-handedly kills roshan
@@_sivtsev_ But like... why didn't he say that?
a
b
c
c
c
Ur are so bad at jungle lol 😂 maybe start watch pro jungle like Kanavi or Canyon before make video about jungle
Here's a challenge for you: Take ashe, level 1, only boots. Go kill gromp without taking any damage from it.
@@TZAR_POTATO are u dumb ? 😂 What next master Yi mid ? 😂
Nice. Keep it up. I play both.
will do.