Bernstein on Schoenberg part III
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2014
- Schoenberg ,intrepid extraterrestrial cartographer ;who at age 70 still hadn't heard any of his major works performed ; I say "Thank You". Arnold Schoenberg not only provided the exact location of those cliffs beyond which there be interstellar space ,but he built a space station and lived out there for 40 years . Damn !
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My music education is relatively poor but I can perfectly understand this man. What a great educator and communicator of musical ideas. Amazing.
This is excellent. It is hard to imagine a public figure today giving a talk designed for a general audience without aiming lower than Bernstein did here. He was a very fine educator.
I believe you have raised a very critical point here . Two observations come to mind ;1st it's disturbing to remember how much higher the bar could be set for a general audience in 1973 and secondly, if you treat a group of people as if they are intelligent and curious then many actually go ahead and put on their thinking caps . STOP THE DUMBING DOWN for gods sake .
I'm studying music and finding this really useful, so it seems people did often have higher educational standards back then.
i know Im randomly asking but does any of you know a trick to get back into an instagram account?
I somehow lost the account password. I love any tips you can offer me!
@Mayson Davis instablaster =)
@Aldo Princeton I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process now.
Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Nobody, but nobody, could make Schoenberg accessible and understandable for ordinary people like this guy. The children's concerts were never just the Children's Concerts.
This man's voice is like chocolate for the ear.
Isn't his singing great in the Don Giovanni passage? ;-)
DOG AT 9:57!!! :) Very funny.
Thanks for your work in posting these; you obviously did it the hard way!
+dzhaughn Right when he mentions Beethoven too! Look who's talking!
Wow, for a second there I thought someone got a dog into the lecture somehow!
Hidan Troyer Thats Caesar my beloved German Shepard RIP
Right, I was thinking, what does this have to do with Beethoven’s ninth?
Me too hahahaha
@@paxwallacejazz RIP Caeser
Thank you for the effort you put into presenting these videos. Your comments make me excited to go on!
It's a pleasure listening to Leonard Bernstein discussing any topic, and he makes a good point here: atonal music does not work.
But everything he says in this lecture was said long before by Paul Hindemith in his 1933 book _The Craft of Musical Composition._
In my youth, I was eager to learn more than basic harmony, so I got a volume of Hindemith's book from the Detroit Public Library, but instead of lessons in modern composition, Hindemith explains, just as Bernstein does here, why tonality makes sense to our ears. And not only does Hindemith point out the logic of the overtone series in forming scales and chords, he mentions _combination tones._ If you play C and G simultaneously, a third tone will sound an octave below the C, reinforcing it. That's why a major triad sounds so satisfying to our ears. These combination tones are a problem in high-fidelity circuits, as when music is electronically reproduced, these combination tones likewise form, sometimes more pronounced, and that becomes IM (inter-modulation) distortion. (Incidentally, that's why old people prefer tube (valve) components and LPs. The spurious combination tones of the IM distortion make the music seem "richer" or "fuller" to them. But it is not true to the original sound.)
Hindemith's book also has a chapter illustrating (as Bernstein does) that no matter what artificial system Schoenberg devised to equalize all pitches in the scale, parts will always gravitate to a certain tonality, and he provides excerpts from works written in serialism which obviously have tonal relationships. (Although when I tried playing these examples, I could not hear this.)
So everything in this series by Bernstein comes from Hindemith. Perhaps others have made these same observations against serialism and atonality as well, but it would have been nice of Bernstein to mention his sources.
Unfortunately, Hindemith then went on to devise his own system, ranking all intervals by their degree of consonance and dissonance, thus eliminating the need to rely on the diatonic scales, although his music uniformly has a tonal center. Hindemith specified that all music must end on either a major triad or a unison, and all of his works do. But Hindemith also used his system to make his music more modern-sounding, which was a goal in classical music then, and works such as his _Pittsburgh Symphony_ are very dissonant, which is why no one performs his music today. The only works of Hindemith which are ever heard today are his _Mathis der Maler_ symphony and his _Symphonic Metamorphosis of Themes by Carl Maria von Weber,_ both of which rely on traditional diatonic values.
Tonal music has evolved over millennia into a system of music that makes sense to all people in all cultures, so why did these gifted musicians feel a need to jettison all traditional musical values in favor of artificial systems? No one has answered _that_ question.
Tonal music does not make sense to people in all cultures. Widely varying and mutually unintelligible systems of harmony exist all around the world. The various forms of atonality are just newer systems, and many people love them more than anything else.
Your comment in the video is significant: anyone who reveres tonality will also be intrigued to push beyond it. This is not only for composers, but listeners: as one gets closer to a horizon, that horizon expands proportionally. It is natural to go through masters, and then look at the possibilities of Jazz, the 2nd Vienese School and anything else your curiosity pushes you on to. Bernstein makes it clear that tonality is almost universally wired into us: yet his examples show Bach, Mozart and Beethoven also temporalily sounding out the realms beyond it. That is their lesson: the freedom of exploration, even though I think we can never shake off melody, harmony and rhthym as the underlying structures of all music (expressive and organized sound)l
I came across this (like many other fine things on TH-cam) by chance, sparked by just what is twelve-tone music (after reading a comment by someone about Berg, who I was listening to). In a nutshell, this cleared up the issue.
Bernstein is unbelievable here as a communicator on the highest level. He makes speakers today sound like they´re making zoo noises.
Thank you for Bernstein´s radiance.
Thank you sooooooooo much for sharing these lectures
Most welcome Sara
Brilliant. I love Bernstein as teacher and composer. I also love Schoenberg. Listening to Bernstein talk about Schoenberg and his atonal methods is utterly fascinating.
Imagine those old master set loose in a modern recording studio using Caustic or Ableton
the dog bark at 10:00 woke me up !
Oh my god, this just occurred to me...the section of Beethoven’s Ninth that he plays is later used as one of the meditations and the mad scene in his Mass! There’s also the “muss ein lieber Vater wohnen” in the same meditation!
These lectures are amazing!!!!
This is just a snippet of lecture 5. They were 2.5 hr long Interdiciplinary forays into the evolution of western art music from Bach to mid 20th century. They are free on You Tube. Try channel cagin or Shawn Bay type in Unanswered Question Leonard Bernstein lecture one Phonology
The Bach serial intro at 08:18 is beautiful!
It is true what bournes is saying .Our ear tries to make sense of what we hear no matter what the system or lack thereof .Most importantly we must listen to th e 2nd viennese school as we listen to all music. Violence, paradox ,irony and all the other types of emotions and observance had to be found out in music -other ways to plot and describe the shift in feeling and aesthetics that were happening in painting ,the novel ,architecture all the arts .It is a great thing to spend time with the Bergviolin conceto but as a listener one needs knowledge these are poems the general listener has no language for.i have the score of the Berg violin concerto but Bernstein 's explanation surely helps one hear WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE MUSIC .Delicacy of the Bflat Bach chorale with the fight and pleading violin of the orchestra .So much happens in this concerto -and that is why it's great we can't exhaust it's meaning even in a lifetime .It has alife of its own like a burning ,screaming tree !
this is really fascinating
What a great teacher.
imho, Bernstein is saying that as long as composers use the standardized Western 12 tones, there is inherently within those 12 tones a tendency for the mind to create tonics, dominants, etc. Those chords are inherent in the tones as they move around each other, just like gravity is inherent in time, space and matter. It takes extraordinary will power and great effort to avoid creating the semblance of these basic chords because the human mind will try and create these relationships even if not there. It is trom the tones themselves that tonality is implicitly created by the mind, which is created by the relationship of the tones themselves. That is why Bernstein suggested that by using electronically generated notes composers might be able to sidestep this problem. Artificial sounds can be created which could be constructed in such a manner not to induce the mind to create implied tonality when none actually exists. Regarding his thinking about atonality as related to mysticism and outer space, tonality keeps us earthbound. it anchors us to the earth's natural sounds, which are tonal. If we create true atonality, we might overcome the mind's tendency to create earthbound sounds and tonal relationships. Then, he suggested the mind and heart might be free to escape our human tendencies and our planet's tonal limitations. Just as rocketing off from earth is physically and mentally exciting, so is detaching (for a while) from being earthbound. He demonstrated this fact by invoking the atonal runs found in sections of classical music from Bach and Beethoven. But, excitement has its limits. We crave stability and comfort as well. Excitement is good; but the continuous use of atonal music is too much excitement for most people. It is too exhausting to listen to, absorb, and comprehend. It is also disorienting, and that causes stress. Therefore, for most people atonal music is good if used in moderation. For in the end, for most people, music is supposed to be pleasing and relatively easy. Otherwise, if it is too difficult, it becomes too hard, too negative, and something to be avoided.
Exceptionally lucid and completely accurate for the most part Mr. Herlands A++
in short a form of symmetry, thats all one can say
you are speaking about creativity simultaneously. to be an original is a very very hard thing and your discussion shows it plainly but the enjoyment of it neutrillezes it. thank god.
Right (Marc Herlands). Well said.
i think you would love the modular synthesizer. ever consider building one?
This is amazing 😍😍😍
Unbelievable video
Note to self: unplayed master
3:35
Violin concerto
Piano Concerto
5 pieces for orchestra
op. 31 Variations for orchestra
6:35 excellent quote on screen :)
"And what about Beethoven's ninth?"
"BOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!"
❤
"extraterrestrial cacophony" is what Stockhausen did in electronic music (along with other pioneers). Yet, when they did it, it turned out to be a continuation of minimalism. Soon jazz musicians discovered these works and returned these electronic sounds within tonality.
I always felt that his 1st Chamber Symphony represented Schoenberg’s fleeting grasp of reality.
9:53
your dog is a beethoven fan
He literally had great ears
I think Bernstein viewed himself as something of a champion of everything.
Well watch lecture 6 he def saw himself as a champion of Tonality.
Oh my, that dog really likes or dislikes Beethoven's 9th.
10:02 on Beethoven is awesome
Totally agree with the comments! :)
Bernstein's lecture is certainly interesting and well informed, but it's a mistake to rely entirely on his line of thinking and say that the twelve-tone technique demonstrates that "all music is tonal". You'd have to, at least, look at Xenakis' side of the story. Instead of simply receding into the comfortable place to admit that tonality is inevitable, he devised stochastic music, as an even more radical departure from tonality, *and* as a criticism of Schoenberg's (in his view) limited and misguided attempts. For all I care, serialist pieces do tend to fall into a sense of normality after some time, whereas Xenakis's works are pretty much a category of their own. They *never* sound "normal".
It seems odd that Bernstein was talking about true atonality as though it were a potential project for some future composers. There had been, as of the date of this lecture, major truly atonal works composed Varese, Stockhausen (he was past his serialist period by then) and, indeed, Xenakis. Not to mention the work of Pierre Schaeffer and other composers working in the area of musique concrete.
Still Xenakis is working inside tonality, even the sound masses have recognizable overtones of any number of chords...there is a lot of sliding (microtones). Sometimes Xenakis is easier to comprehend than some of the strict 12 tone composers. Bernstein can overstate things. But basically that was Robert Simpson's argument: that there is a lot of implied tonality working in Schoenberg despite his efforts...so it was a powerful means of communicating that was denied in denying tonal gravity to operate...12 tone music is very concentrated music but not comprehensive...like losing a leg and then having to concentrate to learn how to hop around on 1 leg, still no matter how hard you concentrate it's still better to have two legs and you can learn a lot more dance steps with two legs than one.
Sometimes I think the "crisis" of music (the arts in general) in the 20th century was just as much a crisis of ego as it was an existential crisis...not just how can we continue to compose the same kind of music when the foundations of society has been shaken, but also after Mahler and Scriabin how can we set ourselves apart from the competition and be great men of music if we just repeat what they've done...there is some of that driving musical innovation but it is seldom talked about.
Continued from previous posts... When you feel the scales of ratiocunation
I dont understand why you've commented on this video...Let us inteprete in the way we want
Well Wendy Carlos did, precisely using synthesizer technology, invent her own system of tunings that completely revoked the concept of an octave in favour of a perfect division of intervals.
There are videos here on youtube exaplining and demonstrating it.
Ivo Wilson I see the world rushing to retune our world musical system. I personally have zero problem with our current modern tonal system. However as long as her system allows for our musical heritage than good. You don't think BTW that Bernstein is calling for a true atonality do you? He isn't.
Me neither my friend! But I think it's always great to try and innovate and push the barriers of music and art further and further, this desire to go beyond has been the main driving force of art since it's begginings and has made all the masterpieces we hold dearly today, and we will always of course lead to dead ends and art that is hard to apreciate and even create anything meaningful, but it is nevertheless art and it's amazing that it exists. I have been listenign for a while now to middle-eastern music and have noticed that, put in context, quarter tones lose their underwhelming "out-of-tune" quality and can generate some intense emotional moments, new textures and landscapes, it was (quarter tones) something that outside the Arab and indian world, was considered unmusical and impossible to be used in the early 20th century too, and you see it in many places now, Radiohead even has a song with strings in quarter tones.
Not in the slightest, I think he's saying that if we strive to achieve total atonality we'd have to get rid of even the 12 equal tones basis, and everything it comes with due to it's inheritly tonal nature.
I was merely pointing out that people have thought about that, and even tried to a certain degree of success.
Bernstein is wrong in attributing to Schoenberg the desire to overturn tonality; conversely, Schoenberg always claimed his quest was to liberate dissonance. The time had come he felt because tonality was wandering around in Wagnerian and Mahlerian myths and memories. Given how much I love the great masters and others, I'm amazed that I'll go to Schoenberg's Trio op 45 to enrich my hearing. I do find it liberating as well as stunning and thrilling.
when I was in Gary Peacocks Cornish theory class before he got the Keith Jarrett gig as his Bassist he had us laboring through Arnold Schoenberg's "Structural Functions in Tonal Music" I think that was the title :Schoenberg was THE expert both compositionally and theoretically regarding Tonal Music . No of course he didn't want to overturn tonality he must have known that would never happen. He loved tonality ,but he was caught in that uniquely Western/Faustian dilemma that Bernstein calls the 20th Century Crisis . It was common for composers from Bach to Debussy to contribute some set of unique harmonic innovations that had the overall effect of creating an overall increase in the chromatic density and expressivity of Western Art music . This was no longer possible via Tonal Music theory by the early 20th c. I find Bernstein's assessment of Schoenberg both insightful and,respectful .
Thank you, I agree.
Your dog denies that Beethoven could ever deny tonal harmony.
Maybe we have reached atonality through noise music...
... falling away from your brain, leaving you in a state of hyper alertness without any judgment whatever.
Hey I guess as a jazz musician I live in a world of improvisation. As informed and coherent as we/I strive to make these forays they aren't really intelectual but a kind of act of chi or shakti or intuition.
one could argue that in fact non tonal music is IN FACT tonal and would become that if you became accustomed to a piece that is non tonal in nature but over time BECAME TONAL TO YOU. I THINK WE start to place a hiarchy on certain note in any series over time because the human ear and the mind cannot help but attempt to try and find some order in something even where there in none to be found whether it be deliberate or not. the average person just cant hear 12 tone music on the level of a highly trained composer such as bernstein or shoenberg which would explain why such music never really caught on until much later.
Yeah the human ear will just adjust and adjust and resolve and resolve ,even if partially, no matter what . We are musicians and we are even better at that natural human proclivity . It's all good adventure huh?
Hmm . Interesting.
omg sevish fans (myself included) must be going crazy rn
paxwallacajezz where is part IV ?
Sorry real life no longer allows me to tend this garden ah it should be to the right or just click on my channel and look at uploads .
As long as the 12 original tones are used there is no escaping tonality!
My dog hates Beethoven, too.
Friend,
While this video has been in place for a good 6 years, it would appear, you should know, unless your evolution has not yet reached the point, that relative tonality or non tonality or whatever names you care to ascribe to the various approaches Bernstein is discussing do not exist until or unless the discursive intellect is active.
Otherwise, the brain nervous system and soul are hearing music organically, energetically in the same way they are smelling aromas or tasting flavors or feeling textures... Without reference to this or that construct. Except in the ear, or more precisely, the intellect of the thinker.
Beyond that, is the phenomenon of musical expression in its most primal form, which communicates directly to the human spirit without the intermediary of mind, and without the needless infrastructure of theoretical conceptual theory. you will know that you've arrived at this point when you feel the scales of needless
isn't it possible that the only famous true atonal piece is 4'33?
Sounds like klingon!
I knew I'd ruin it. ....It was already ruined.
Hmm... Reminds me of what Ben Johnston did with microtonality.
is tonality inherent? the overtone series is natural, 12 tempered tones are not. the world has been grounded in music with a center of gravity and in the west tonality is ground into our ears every day from birth.
Indeed. I can't help but find it funny when people try to use the harmonic series as the ultimate proof that tonality is *necessarily* inherent to all music. I mean, really? So, how many times have they used the 7th degree of the series today? How "tonal" is that nice little interval, smack dab in the middle of the minor third and the major second,i that is somehow nonexistent in the diatonic scale? It's funny how the "perfect and pure" diatonic system breaks down so easily...
This is brilliant...
But when he gives examples in the music of Mozart, Beethoven, etc., prefiguring Schoenberg's Serialism, he omitted (only by oversight, I'm sure) John Dowland's "Forlorn Hope Fancy:"
th-cam.com/video/cMR3AEB1nyw/w-d-xo.html
There is a reason that pre-tempered music isn't really addressed in this lecture series . Pre-tempered music exists outside of the watershed that allows for a certain process that this series addresses . Although Bernstein never states this exactly he certainly illustrates the following : The broad acceptance of Tempering in the west set into motion that composer driven high speed power dive into higher and higher levels of chromatic density . I am talking about all the various ways Composers developed to admit more and more notes outside the key and it's close Diatonic Partners . This is the big why regarding the 20th century crisis . He is if you bother to watch very concerned with getting folks to hear music more structurally and to see that music has meanings of it's own . So the fact that Bernstein was (as a composer) not a practitioner of anything very strung out tonally or atonal doesn't mean that as a conductor and educator he didn't recognize the supreme importance and significance of the 20th century crisis . He very passionately wanted folks to be able to see and understand the purely musical forces that led to this upheaval . As well as how those forces where paralleled in the other arts . Thats pretty damn ambitious for a set of lectures meant to be broadcasted on PBS even in 1973 .Just watch this series huh? I don't mean my little snippets .
Interesting point:
Extreme Chromaticism can only occur if all of the notes and the intervals between them are standardized... I hadn't thought of that.
tuxguys Not just extremely chromatic music but mature Mozart eg development section of 1st movement Symphony 40 G minor where he modulates through all 12 keys starting said development section in F# minor . Just watch the whole lecture.
Do you mean the broken diminished passages in the 1st Movement?
Just watch it huh ? Lecture one "Musical Phonology" He analyzes the development section from the point of view of the diatonic containment of chromaticism while pointing out that it modulates through all 12 keys (he does this at the piano with a continuous demonstration of each concept) My short excerpt Bernstein on Mozart doesn't really capture the brilliance of this lecture.
Atonality certainly has not been universally rejected. Mr Audrey is not listening.
Regardless at the end of the day we are only speaking of music academia here. Ligeti's Brilliant atonal compositions used in Kubrick's 2001(1968) was the last time I can recall any atonal pieces receiving any broad distribution to the public at large . The use of Bartok in "The Shining" (also Kubrick) while equally brilliant music was polytonal not atonal . It is sad that the public at large will ,on average, receive almost zero exposure to the musical innovations of the great composer's of the 20th century. Please correct me if I am off here .
I am pleased to find numerous atonal works of recent composition here on TH-cam. There are also numerous examples in film music. Even I myself have uploaded a lot of avant garde works here, and they are getting quite good viewership and favourable comments. This kind of music is far more available and far more enjoyed by the serious concert going public than was the case 30 years ago. This is more of an objective observation than a subjective opinion. From a subjective angle, for me it is an essential part of civilized existence and participation in the world of life. I love it.
Michael Berridge Mr. Berridge what an eye opening and reasonable response . I will attempt to contact you via your channel in order to request a link or two
paxwallacejazz On one hand, I agree with you, that the music Schoenberg and Berg and others should be more widely appreciated. On the other hand, I agree with you that, having listened to them for a few years now, that they are staggeringly brilliant in their musicality. On the third hand, knowing a bit about their history and a smidgen about their techniques, I agree that they were first rate intellectuals with a remarkably pure passion for their work, and their struggle and discovering their need for the scaffolding that serialism gave them is a really revealing about the nature of human thought. But, on the fourth hand, I maybe disagree a bit, and maybe just how I read a subtext of yours. Namely, I don't think those things have so much to do with each other. At least the relationship between them only goes one way.
Much of this music is beautiful. It was written by geniuses pursuing big theories. But you'll agree that being written by a genius is not what makes a piece of music beautiful. Rather, their genius enabled them to write music that others, even the non-genius sort such as myself, can find beautiful. The theory was essential for them in the process of composing, it maybe essential for the performer too, but it is at most incidental in the experience of listening to the final result.
Anyway, something that I had to overcome to enjoy their music was to let go of the backstory (which I love, and brought me into it) and just listen to the music. I think a more popular reaction is to be dubious of or bored with the theoretical underpinnings, and for the listener to put a wall up against the the music as a result.
Cheers, and thanks for the videos
dzhaughn All of your observations are very welcome here sir. Creative instrumental music in all it's guises are an endangered species I fear . That would include Jazz, and all forms of orchestral music especially 20th c. and beyond . The only truly mass consumption for interesting advanced creative music is ,Music for Film, (well you tube) that said I am truly happy that so much positive response has been garnered by these little posts .
Example 0:40-0:58: "Of course that's ruining the music" - no, Leonard, actually this makes it make sense for the first time!
Thomas Mitterfellner it kinda ruins its atonality though... I think that's what he meant
9:57 dog barking.
Caesar my beloved German Shepherd. You can see him on Drastic Measures.
I mean, 12 tone music is interesting and worth studying, but it generally sounds ugly. I think its best application is to invoke a feeling of terror or a similar emotion.
Well you're not alone in this assessment . Sometimes to me it just sounds truly deeply mysterious in the extreme sense of the word
In the right context and in the right hands, atonality can often be used to create an atmosphere of (would you believe) humor. You generally have to be *seeing* something in tandem with it, but just think of how many cartoon soundtracks have essentially atonal moments in the background music--at least in those made in the '50s, '60s, and '70s. It's background music to a humorous moment, so it goes down easier.
Schoenberg was writing and reflecting the period of pre- and post WW1 Europe, the mindless slaughter of millions of youth with gas bombs tanks and machine guns; a time when empires were crumbling and the spirit of revolution was everywhere desperately trying to find ways out of maddness and war,. Cinema was being born rapidly, radio filled the air for the first time,the mass media., new ways of looking at all of existence. Science was being revolutized by relativity and evolution and quantum mechanics; mass electricity, cars, telephone lines changed everything utterly. The intensity was totally overwhelming. Picasso ,DaDa, surrealism, then Duschamps conceptualismnalis etc in art, Joyce and. Elliot in prose and poetry. The compulsion to still listen to it is because down we know that the music almost perfectly captured and reflected the zeitgeist of his age. An almost perfect achievrment.
If you want to create presence a sense of the miraculous felt experienced set out to play something sweet heart felt to you ear and slow the music right down to a progression of single notes each held until the note starts to drop of in to soundless space and instinctively time the next note as if the timing of the length of silence is per portion the tone difference between the last note and the next note and it is the space that in the music the harmony created in the listener felt is Presence a third implicale input the magnetic tonality of activation of a Heart Focused centered experience in the now. It's simple and very slow the length of a note sounding and slowly ending with a matching period of silence before the next note is the key to making the magic happen within. This is one way of making the law of three within. I chose the classical guitar because I could feel some the vibration of the note in my body as it rest against my gut and abdomen. I can only play five cords so you don't need to be a genius to experiment and as little as playing one string may suffice
because it vibrates evenly in a way I do not know how to explain a sweat slow very slow progression of different notes focusing equally on the sweat nothingness between each note as you intuitively craft the expression. Feel the note and the space and the next note and space because the magic happens between the blending of the two modes vibrating sound and nothing. I may self may in the near future try to repeat this for myself to see if I can again reframe my awearns in the now and induce the law of three with.
Making the the law of three happen within basically is to sense think and feel simultaneously at the instinctual level of the Three Primary Points three six and of the Enneagram figure the six instinctual variants fall into balance unbiased and Intuition of a spiritual order is generated and can be sustained until the egoic mind set reengages.
I have done this once then I was about 26 that is how I know it works. I enjoy my egoic mind set so I have not tried to reproduce the technique and outcome. There are several way to achieve the same thing but basically it taking attention of the egoic mind set and Instinctual trinary bias or Instinctual variants run on automatic to allow the natural order of the Higher Self to reappear as priour the little death then we were aged 3-4 years of age then the unity of the three instincts separated into a recognisable trinary and we favoured one over the other two and further leaving one as least prefered. This was a natural step in the maturation of the egoic mind and we all went though it but not many have learned how to reestablish that higher state felt purity with that expansive sense of being "Liberated fully present to and conscious of the wholeness and unity of existence while simultaneously retaining a sense of self.” (The Wisdom of the Enneagram, author Don Reso and Russ Hudson) The egoic mind set and six instinctual variants is like a magnet the holds your from experiencing the magnetic center of the energy of your own Hearts magnetic centre or united trinary intuition of a spiritual order via feeling thinking and sensing simultaneously. I think more than music math english and social studies should be apart of primary education what do you think? Asidia is rife.
The law of three explained by Russ Hudson
th-cam.com/video/hIK62vd-QvQ/w-d-xo.html
The 18 egoic mind set's.
Enjoy and note that the three instincts belong to the both the triangle and the Helix and can be understood as follows..
- Feeling at the Instinctual level Points one and two. Self Preservation Instinct.
- Thinking at the Instinctual level Points four and five. Sexual Instinct.
- Sensing at the Instinctual level Points seven and eight. Social Instinct.
The Feeling Triad
Two with one wing.
Subtype: two with one-wing; ENFJ
Auxiliary wing: one with nine-wing; ExTJ (Ambidextrous S and N) (agenda focused)
Second/wing: ISTJ (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: eight with nine-wing; ESFJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: four with five-wing; ENTP
Two with three wing.
Subtype: two with three-wing; ISFJ
Auxiliary wing: three with four-wing; ISTP (agenda focused)
Second wing: ESTJ (agenda focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: eight with seven-wing; ESTP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: four with three-wing; ENFP
Three with two wing.
Subtype: three with two-wing; ISTJ
Auxiliary wing: two with one-wing; ENFJ (agenda)
Second wing: ENFP (mood focused)
Subsidiary wing: one with two-wing; ESTJ
Subsidiary wing: five with Six-wing; INxP (Ambidextrous T and F)
Point of stress/disintegration: nine with one-wing; INFP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: six with five-wing; INTJ
Three with four wing.
Subtype: three with four-wing; ISTP
Auxiliary wing: four with-five; ENTP (agenda)
Second wing: two with three-wing; ISFJ (mood)
Subsidiary wing: five with four-wing; INTP
Subsidiary wing: one with nine-wing; ExTJ (Ambidextrous S and N)
Point of stress/disintegration: nine with eight-wing; INFJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: six with seven-wing; ISFP
Four with three wing.
Subtype: four with three-wing; ENFP
Auxiliary/wing: three with two-wing; ISTJ (agenda focused)
Second/wing: INTP (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: two with three-wing; ISFJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: one with two-wing; ESTJ
Four with five wing.
Subtype: four with five wing; ENTP
Auxiliary wing: five with six wing; INxP (Ambidextrous T and F) (agenda focused)
Second wing: ISTP (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: two with one-wing; ENFJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: one with nine-wing; ExTJ (Ambidextrous S and N)
The Doing Triad/Thinking Triad
Five with four-wing.
Subtype: five with four-wing; INTP
Auxiliary wing: four with three-wing; ENFP (agenda focused)
Second wing: ISFP (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: seven with six-wing; ESFP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: eight with nine-wing; ESFJ
Five with six-wing.
Subtype: five with six-wing; INxP (Ambidextrous T and F)
Auxiliary wing: six with seven-wing; ISFP (agenda focused)
Second wing: ENTP (Mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: seven with eight-wing; ENTJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: eight with seven-wing; ESTP
Six with five-wing.
Subtype: six with five-wing; INTJ
Auxiliary wing: five with four-wing; INTP (agenda focused)
Second wing: ENTP (mood focused)
Subsidiary wing: four with three-wing; ENFP
Subsidiary wing: eight with nine-wing; ESFJ
Point of stress/disintegration: three with two-wing; ISTJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: nine with one-wing; INFP
Six with seven-wing.
Subtype: six with seven-wing; ISFP
Auxiliary wing: seven with eight-wing; ENTJ (agenda focused)
Second wing: INFTP (mood focused)
Subsidiary wing: four with five-wing; ENTP
Subsidiary wing: eight with seven-wing; ESTP
Point of stress/disintegration: three with four-wing; ISTP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: nine with eight-wing; INFJ
Seven with six-wing.
Subtype: seven with six-wing; ESFP
Auxiliary wing: six with five-wing; INTJ (agenda focused)
Second wing: ESTP (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: one with nine-wing; ExTJ (Ambidextrous S and N)
Point of Integration/Neurosis: five with four-wing; INTP
Seven with eight-wing.
Subtype: seven with eight wing; ENTJ
Auxiliary wing: eight with nine wing; ESFJ (agenda focused)
Second wing: ESFP (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: one with two wing; ESTJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: five with six wing; INxP(Ambidextrous T and F)
The Relating Triad/Instinctive Triad
Eight with seven-wing.
Subtype: eight with seven-wing; ESTP
Auxiliary wing: seven with six-wing; ESFP (agenda focused)
Second wing: INFP (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: five with six-wing; INxP (Ambidextrous T and F)
Point of Integration/Neurosis: two with three-wing; ISFJ
Eight with nine-wing.
Subtype: eight with nine-wing; ESFJ
Auxiliary wing: nine with-eight; INFJ (agenda focused)
Second wing: ENTJ (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: five with four-wing; INTP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: two with one-wing; ENFJ
Nine with eight-wing.
Sub-type: nine with eight-wing; INFJ
Auxiliary wing: eight with seven-wing; ESTP (agenda focused)
Second wing: ESNTJ (mood focused)
Subsidiary wing: seven with eight-wing; ENTJ
Subsidiary wing: two with three-wing; ISFJ
Point of stress/disintegration: six with seven-wing; ISFP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: three with four-wing; ISTP
Nine with one-wing.
Subtype: nine with one-wing; INFP
Auxiliary wing: one with two-wing; ESTJ (agenda focused)
Second wing: ESFJ (mood focused)
Subsidiary wing: two with one-wing; ENFJ
Subsidiary wing: seven with six-wing; ESFP
Point of stress/disintegration: six with five-wing; INTJ
Point of Integration/Neurosis: three with two-wing; ISTJ
One with nine-wing.
Subtype: one with nine-wing; ExTJ (Ambidextrous S and N)
Auxiliary wing: nine with one-wing; INFP (agenda focused)
Second wing: ISFJ (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: four with five-wing; ENTP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: seven with six-wing; ESFP
One with two-wing.
Sub-type: one with two-wing; ESTJ
Auxiliary wing: two with three-wing; ISFJ (agenda focused)
Second wing: INFJ (mood focused)
Point of stress/disintegration: four with three-wing; ENFP
Point of Integration/Neurosis: seven with eight-wing; ENTJ
Mark Anthony Rockliff 9w1 INFP Sx/Sp/So 1221 D type.
then microtonality came along and fucked everything up
why are all of these atonal composers German?
Not Webern or Berg--only Schoenberg. It seems atonality only catches on outside the German-speaking world after WWII. Not even Messiaen is really *atonal*, and in fact he wrote some pieces that sound relatively straightforward.
The Germanic sphere had always been the center of development for Western art music.
paxwallacejazz claims Schoenberg "at age 70 still hadn't heard any of his major works performed". Of course this is preposterously false.
beethoven the dog
we are here just to see Bernstein's lectures, not to read your stupid remarks on him.
Really sick of the "notes"!
Geez just type it in 🤦♂️try channel cagin or Shawn Bay or just type in Unanswered Question by Leonard Bernstein lecture one Phonology there are 6 posted in their entirety many places on You Tube. These are what you might call cliff notes I posted the parts I found most interesting to me a jazz pianist composer.
Way to ruin a wonderful documentary with your own fatuous comments
Well I encourage you to watch the entire series it's all over you tube but this is my channel and these are mere excerpts so stop watching you lazy psudointellectual.
It's typical of this sort of ad hom comment that it makes an assertion (two in this case) without knowing the first thing about its object.
I love Mr. Bernstein, but some of his arguments are absolutely ridiculous.
These lectures where and remain controversial . Feel free to elaborate if you like .
He says that Schoenberg's music is inherently tonal because it uses the twelve notes of the chromatic scale, which I think doesn't count as an argument, because then you can say that no matter what notes any classical acoustic instrument makes, it can never be atonal.
Also, I thought it was quite strange that he said the intentional lack of tonality in some of Schoenberg's pieces means that tonality was still inherent in his writing. That's like saying that the complete lack of alien contact in our lives means that aliens are still inherent in our lives.
Nathan Evans Well ,he is kinda saying two different things overall huh?:But really his over arching point is that the author of "Structural Functions of Tonal Music" remained both subliminally and at times consciously connected to tonality even while inventing and perfecting atonality . Thats why I called this installment "Haunted by Tonality" this all seems natural to me . Now whats true on a nuts and bolts level is that even his free atonality isn't allowing anything tonal to establish itself in our ears except it's still kinda lingering around in a ghostly way . Like he said Schoenberg himself questioned the possibility of atonal music using our accepted system of tempering . The human ear is an unrelenting resolution machine it tries to create tonality pretty much anytime it hears music . Schoenberg's most hard core student was Anton Webern he really did everything possible to eliminate the possibility of tonality slipping in and then go listen to Alban Berg who took Schoenberg's 12 tone procedure toward tonality as much as he could . Interesting huh?
lol maybe it's just the wording? idk haha. sometimes Mr. Bernstein is incredibly articulate and other times he seems to kind of pull it out of his ass. It really does surprise me how some of the most out-there composers would still use chordal figures. Chords really are so strange, in that they are literally a drug to our ears. We cannot escape the wonderful sound of them. I myself use chords when writing to keep people "comfortable" as I show them something new.
Maybe because 12 tone music sounds like trash?