Rock lee looks cool as hell at the start but then the entire series turns into "the child of a hokage, trained by jaraiya (a legendary ninja trained by a hokage), kakashi (a hokage trained by a hokage), that is given a proverbial nuke in the form of the strongest tailed beast, who turns out to be a reincarnation of one of the absolute strongest ninjas in history" basically proves that through nepotism, insane elite genetics, and literal destiny you too could be the real hero lmao
It is really sad. We have a bit of the reverse situation in JJK (at least in the anime so far), with Yuji basically only being able to use hand-to-hand combat based techniques. That is, of course, we inevitably start to go into his lineage and discover he was born special like all the other protagonists.
@@Baronnax That's the same as how it was in pre-Shippuden Naruto though. Both the audience and Naruto didn't know about his lineage and initially thought that the nine-tails was some kind of curse. He was shunned by everyone in the village, was not inherently good at any techniques, and had to prove himself against his prodigy peers (Sasuke and Neji). He managed to turn the nine-tails into an advantage by the end of the original series and that's about all he got.
Hey, I do think you have really good points, but imo despite having everything seemingly positioned perfectly for him, I think Naruto did the work to deserve all of it. For example, I would definitely take a bet that 99% of Ninjas could never befriend every single Tailed Beast. Also as you've mentioned, whilst he did have a lot of people in his life that made things go much easier for him, he didn't just waltz into those positions. People like Kakashi, Tsunade and the Old Frog all had their initial doubts and reluctance about taking him under their wing.
Toji was the OG bushcamper, he had to wait three days in that (metaphorical) bush only to fail at killing my glorious blue eyed king ya'll I was mocking gojo glazers
@@joshwilson8564 bro had ZERO cursed energy, what did you think he was going to do? fight gojo at full power with no cursed energy or techniques? he humbled gojo by tiring him out, if it weren't for him GO/JO would still be a cocky bum who didn't change
@@conigonde because he had zero cursed energy 🤦♂ use your brain fanboy, would you rather fight gojo at full strength with zero cursed energy or techniques, or would you rather tire him out first then fight him? He humbled gojo, died, resurrected and proceeded to give dagon the biggest whooping of his life and then died again to save his son. If it weren't for him gojo would not have developed the way he did and would still be cocky.
@@TheOneWhoAsked33 Zero cursed energy yet for that period before gojo was born, Toji was unironically the strongest person alive. Tf u mean, zero cursed energy is a blessing. You have physicals strong enough to mid diff one of the great clans, natural immunity to domains, THE PINNACLE of jujutsu, basically undetectable, barriers are useless against you and regen as well. You have the entire pack, with heavenly restriction your automatically special grade basically. No need to waste time on learning Ce, just practice with a sword a bit and ur good to solo all grade 1s
This is actually a bunch of tropes combined. For the 3 ppl that cares, here's a lil list: *1 - "Badass Normal":* Character with absolute no power in a team of superpowered people. Yet, as the name suggests, they can still hold on their own nonethless. Example, Batman in the Justice League. *2 - "Charles Atlas Superpower":* Trope to when a character with "pure hardwork" and "training", can somehow achieve Superhuman strength, speed, and physique. Aka, Rock Lee and Saitama. *3 - "Un-Sorcerer":* This trope is when a character, in a world of Common Superpowers, is born without being able to use No Powers at all. Such as Toji, Izuku Midoriya, Rock Lee, Mash, etc. *4 - "Almighty Janitor":* Trope for character who's from the perspective of others look, seems, or is just an average guy, or completly worthless, while they're simultaneously an unit or a powerful character in a literal or figurative way. Toji is literally that, bcuz of the Zenin Clan making him be classified as an "average non-curse user", as if hes just a civilian. *5 - "Magically Inept Fighter":* A world where Magic or Superpower exists, but a character either can't use or SUCKS A LOT at them. So, they try and make up with it by training in melee combat instead. Applies to Asta, Mash, Rock Lee, Saitama, etc.
@@nirjhar4803 there is a site called tvtropes that categorizes all tropes in fiction. These names are taken from that site which in turn takes these names from the various parts of the inter
“The differences between men are not so vast” me at 6’2 185lbs looking at Hafthor Bjornsson, Giannis Antetokounmpo, LeBron James, and prime Arnold Schwarzenegger
@@XAnderson27there really isn’t. The time of people’s physical bodies being the defining factor of their worth passed 200 years ago. All of those people are athletes who were/are juiced out of their minds. That’s it. They lift weight and throw ball, that’s not a skill set that truly matters today. Even in war, nobody fights using just their strength. Every man has a gun, and the gun is the ultimate tool to level the playing field. These people you think so highly of as being so much better than you are specialized in a different area to you.
@@XAnderson27I mean at the macro scale you aren’t. You both are gonna get rekt by the same predators and could reasonably hunt the same prey. In any armed conflict people are rarely by themselves instead in groups and the weapons are going to balance out a lot of the physical differences as far as getting hit clean typically means death. Men aren’t equal on the interpersonal basis but on the macro scale we get equalized out.
As a JoJo Fan, I think Hayato from Diamond is Unbreakable kinda fits in here. I don't know why but the fact that a standless kid managed to not only expose the main villain of the part, but also assisted on the final battle is honestly wild to think about.
Right? Hayato had no stand, hamon, spin, spiritual awareness, nothing. Yet because of him they won, if he hadn't called Josuke, or touched Okuyasu when he was a bomb the Morioh Warriors would have lost, over and over again.
@@mp2k1 not over over. But twice only. The way BTD works is that it is planted onto someone, most likely a non stand user like Hayato. If that person were ever to reveal to someone about Kira's identity, then that someone explodes and time goes back an hour before. Events would still occur just like what happened the first time, including that someone's death despite not doing the same thing in the first loop. However this time, instead of going back an hour before, time would still continue, making the death permanent. But, if the BTD was removed from the person before that someone dies, then that someone won't die. This means Rohan got lucky. If the rest of the duwang gang interviewed Hayato at a later time, then that would mean Rohan's death would've been permanent. But since the duwang gang "died" just right after Rohan's "permanent" death, time rewinded again right before Rohan's "permanent" death. So hats off to Hayato cause he manage to get Kira to remove BTD from him just before Rohan's time came.
@justinjunkatigbak4576 its what i mean, because if hayato didn't get Kira to remove BTD, then not just Rohan but the Morioh warriors would've also had their permanent deaths as well.
At the beginning, Naruto was about how hard work could overcome hereditary talent. Unfortunately, by the end of Shippuden it was about how good your lineage is and you never had to train really, you were a reincarnation destined to basically win against an alien witch
I have not read all of Kishimoto's interviews about his themes, but I have read as many as I could get my hands on. Based on his words, it seems as though the series message revolves around war and understanding. He took great inspiration from his Grandfather(who I believe is a veteran), who talks about past wars he survived. Tailed Beast are supposed to represent nuclear weapons. the "Cycle of Hatred" that was born from war is suppose to be an obstacle to understanding others. Naruto connects to and learns from/ teaches others using "Talk no Jutsu". You can find evidence of this theme through the reason Naruto created his ninja way(chapter 33 and 43) as well as the antagonist that reflects Naruto himself.
The only thing Naruto got from being Ashura's reincarnation was a generational fade that continues the cycle of hatred. Naruto was made into the "Child of Prophecy" by becoming Jiraiya's student, not born as one, as multiple could exist at once. The "Child of Prophecy" could bring the world one step closer to peace or destruction. A reincarnation is "destined" to continue the "Cycle of Hatred" that disrupts peace. Naruto rose above his shitty life, fought against enemies that resembled him if he ever gave in, and changed his destiny. Exactly what he told Neji to do.
My ass, it was about hard vs talent. If it was supposed to be that, rock Lee should've won against gaara he didn't. Guy called him a genius of hard work. Maybe it had the elements of hard work Vs talent but it wasn't a major theme in the OG Naruto, the biggest themes of Naruto from what I can tell are bonds, cycle of hatred, peace, war and understanding one another.
@thetele8646 I agree with you. Guy said that Lee was talented in the Drunken Fist. Kakashi said that Lee was a genius at opening the Eight Gates. Lee capitalized on both by working hard at Taijutsu. Naruto is a genius when it comes to learning and adapting. Naruto was gifted the 9 Tails because of his Uzumaki DNA. Naruto capitalized on both by working hard physically and mentally. Lee's ninja way isnt "proving that hard work trumps genius", but "proving that a great ninja doesnt need ninjutsu or genjutsu". Naruto's ninja way is to "follow his unbending word", created by the fact that he wanted to redefine what it means to be a ninja.
Naruto wasn't destined to win. He was blessed in his path but still had to put in the work. His greatest strengths, every single one, was realized through his connections with others (just like Asura). And to form those connections he had to start by earning even the most meager bit of respect.
The full phrase that is emphasized by this trope is that “hard work beats genius, when genius refuses to work hard”. Both in the TojixGojo fight and the LeexGaara fight, the moment the geniuses had their pride shattered and started putting in effort, they won.
In both fights, Gaara and Gojo had an unfair advantage against them, people that can't use cursed energy/ninjutsu, and both are naturally gifted by hereditary blood. At least in Toji's case, he literally won, the only reason Gojo survived is plot armor. After Toji won, Gojo came later completely healed and with an amp and killed Toji. Again, Tojo WON against Gojo, after that Gojo WON against Toji.
I would say that, despite gojo being extremely powerful from the start, him grasping reversed cursed energy and hollow purple after his first encounter with Toji kind of showed how much of a menace Toji and Gojo were despite being born in entirely different conditions. Toji being able to take out one of the top sorcerers without any cursed energy, and Gojo being able to figure out reversed cursed technique, as well as hollow purple after fighting Toji despite it being an evidently very difficult thing to pull off/understand. Both characters are super awesome.
@@Minnstro yeah but its kinda cheap, Gojo wins because he's a Gojo, not because he outsmarted Toji or because Toji made a mistake (his mistake was fighting Gojo). I'm not saying its bad but it plays into showing how unfair the world is...
@@thepowerofsand6180 I don't think his mistake was fighting gojo, I think it was not stabbing him in the head with the inverted spear of heaven/cutting off his head. Toji had won the fight, he died though because he didn't think that gojo was capable of reversed cursed technique. Toji knew that gojo COULD use it though, so this was his mistake more than anything. It's hindsight for sure, and easier said than likely done. We all knew gojo was strong as hell though, and toji knew that more than anyone, hence why he wore him down. I also wanna be clear that you're 100% right about the world being very clearly unfair. I do believe that despite that though, both of them were very powerful characters in their own ways. Toji got handed some bad cards, no doubt, however he wasn't handed the worst cards of them all either. Gojo got handed some of the best cards, and gojo took them for granted until the the toji fight. Both characters are goated in their own right, and that's okay. I also wanna point out that toji was cautious of gojo's eyes, as well as his abilities. However, he wasn't cautious of gojo as a person, any other person would have just died and likely not actually figured out reversed cursed technique. Gojo being gojo as a person is a huge reason why he survived that.
As a Batman fan, this trope always scratched the itch the comics could just never quite scratch. And as part of the predominantly anti-Power Scalers Camp, this trope definitely scratches the lizard part of my brain. "Your guy can bend time and space and reality? Oh yeah? Well my guy...can run the ones."
A trope I love in fiction is just the general tendency to take things to their logical conclusion to the point they become eldritch and detached from everyday reality. Incorruptible and Irredeemable are both comics that feature BRUTE force application beating reality warpers. A dude uses gravity wells to destroy multiple galaxies' worth of matter, convert said matter into energy and bombard a reality warper with so much force, it overloads his ability to bend reality. It doesn't even make sense on the page. It has to be stated and told outright and even then, the magnificence of it has to be allowed to sink in. It's like encountering the creator of existence and punching him with so much brute force, you actually hurt him.
So what I'm getting is he hit that mf with the big bang? Y'know, there is a theory that the universe will collapse into a singularity(which often have immense amounts of gravity) and the universe will re-start once again(if the theory is true, the universe has begun and ended multiple times), so, if that theory is true, he hit the creator of existence, by using existence itself as a weapon.
@@internetlurker1850 the villain did this multiple times by the way. He punched him with multiple different universes. Repeatedly until he beat what amounted to a deity into submission.
I know Asta get’s a lot of hate, but I think he is an amazing example. The fact that he can do everything he can is ONLY possible because he is powerless. He is only able to use anti magic because he is powerless. He is only able to carry such a heavy sword because he worked out every day of his life. As the witch queen said, Asta is nothing special at all, but THAT is what makes him special. That quote really hits hard
That’s exactly what I love about him, his uniqueness comes from being what everyone else would never want to be, in this case, unable to use magic. Reminds me of a quote from Vikings, where Ragnar tells Ivar (Who’s a cripple) that he is strong not DESPITE being a cripple, but BECAUSE of it, really turning the problem on its head
My issue with that is he's "powerless" only in name. There is no real disadvantage to his "powerlessness." He can fight close or long-range, he can fly, etc. Other than specific spells (like space or light magic), what exactly can't Asta do with anti-magic?
@@michaelbietsch2864 I mean thats the whole point of the story, at the beginning he actually had a lot of disadvantages. He couldnt fly he couldnt do long range attack all he did was swing a sword around. But we see him grow and work through those disadvantages by getting stronger and figuring out this power that only he can use, because of his crazy amount of hard work and this part of him that made the entire world look at him as if he was scum/less than a human. Thats why its so cool, he works through these disavantages thats the whole point of shounen in general, seeing the MC grow
@@NH-st2uh I never said that wasn't the point of a shounen. I'm saying if a power is supposed to be some grave disadvantage, the workarounds to those disadvantages shouldn't come from within that power, otherwise it's not really a disadvantage - it's just magic that's been reskinned and sold. Black Clover isn't the only series that's supposed to be an underdog series that really just isn't either, Naruto and Dragon Ball are too. And yes, all the characters work hard, but they have very distinct and undeniable advantages that you're forced to pretend don't exist for the sake of the narrative
Technically Toji does have some form of a super power. Heavenly Restrictions could be seen as a power due to the insane stat boost it gives its user and its a result of not having any cursed energy to make up for it. Toji does things that even characters with powers either struggle to do or cant do.
The "shit power but great use" is my favorite archetype in anime, because it can lead to some cool strategies that makes fighting much more interesting
Toji is honestly one of the most blessed characters in JJK, insane physical stats and he can still sense curses without CE. Sure he doesn’t use the magic system but he honestly got it so much better then most sorcerers like Miwa and Utahime.
Isn't that literally magical realism? Also, technically speaking, Jujutsu Kaisen and some anime called The Irregular at Magical High School sort of fit that since magical users/sorcerers in these worlds are a small minority despite being the center of the story. It's why Suguru Geto is the way he is in the end.
The "toji's origin" manga, and therefore his backstory of beign thrown in with a bunch of cursed spirits, is fanmade EDIT: Nvm i'm wrong, it is stated in the fanbook. That manga is still fanmade but the situation is canon
@@privcommenting Where was it stated that the same happened to toji? Definetly not when maki and mai got thrown in there. Unless you take her father's fear as "toji did the same"? I would say that's reaching a little bit, and definetly not qualify that as beign "said in the manga"
@@gloc9531 I wouldn't say reaching because with the panel that says something along the lines of "This is exactly like him... (Toji)" or something (excuse me for not remembering, i havent read the manga in a while) and that one panel where it's Toji and Maki in the same pose side to side, I'd say they treated both non-sorcerers the same. I'm gonna go back and re-read those chapters again, so feel free to ask about anything else you're not sure of man!
@@privcommenting I really feel like that side to side just meant that he was scared of toji just like maki in that moment, not that they were in the same situation, but I guess is up to interpretation
also my favorite naruto fight ever is still rock lee and gaara vs kimimaro because in that fight we see that rock lee could never beat kimimaro, so the fact that gaara shows up out of nowhere to help him is the most badass thing I've ever seen.
I think another aspect I really like about this trope is how the characters have to be creative and combo the abilities they do have. Aside from Toji, my favorite cases are in Jojo Golden Wind. There are so many fights where in theory one stand is stronger, but by manipulating circumstances they were able to even the playing field. A lot of the stands in that also had simple abilities pushed to the limits and exploiting its biggest strengths. Take Cioccolata and Secco, taking damage from going downhill seems easy to avoid, but paired with ANOTHER stand collapsing everything beneath you is pretty terrifying.
His copy ability is called mimicry, goku (technically semi-mimicry since he couldn't fully copy the kamehameha), and a crap ton of other characters have it too.@joshidk-zy9xj
This reminds me of the old Nux Taku videos before he started making brain rot garbage. It's rare to see thoughtful analysis of tropes and themes in anime, and you've earned yourself another subscriber with this one.
@@Reppen555 Yeah, it was the most impressive Taijutsu ever, but he lost. That's like having a Flying competition with a bunch of people who can literally fly, but there's this one guy who can't fly but has the record for the Highest Vertical Leap in the world. Yes, it's the most impressive Vertical Leap, but it isn't anywhere near close to actually flying. Same thing here. I love Might Guy, honestly my favorite character in the entire Naruto series, but you can't say "He lost with Taijutsu, therefore Taijutsu is OP." Also. It was the 8 Gates that almost defeated Madara, not just Taijutsu. Honestly though this conversation reminded me how fucking hype & awesome Naruto is, so I'm gonna introduce it to my 5 year old right now. Thanks for the discourse, friend 🤘
I think we can relate more to such characters (Toji, Asta, Zoro, Rock Lee, Guts) because they just feel more "real" and "human" without the super power stuff. Why? It's quite simple - because no one could ever relate on a deeper level to a demi god who can control lightning and breathe flames for example, you know they always win and kick as$ so you won't be invested as much. But when a character with the same weaknesses and limitations as you is on the screen ? A character with an actual human body who trained all his life to compete with all the super power monsters in his verse? Well... That's when you start rooting for them (even if they are the villain sometimes) because you can finally relate on a much deeper level to that type of character. And the 2nd reason - because even their skills are ( at least to some degree ofc 😂 ) attainable irl if one would have the discipline to train hard enough and for a long enough time to develop them by hitting the gym, training some combat sports/ martial arts and maybe even parkour for that acrobatic touch to be able to do backflips and all that cool stuff. And finally - thank you for the video brother ✌️ 🫡 It's always nice to see some fresh content on this trope
In Hajime no ippo, coach Kamagowa says this line, "Not all those who work hard succeed, but those who succeed have all worked hard." It's a tough line.
I had to stop watching My Hero after like 35 episodes because Deku was STILL crying in every scene he's in, crying about how "he will never be strong", & constantly failing at every single thing he did at all including but not limited to fights with school bullies. Idk who would want to watch a Shonen anime with a MC who quite literally goes the entire first chunk of the show without making so much as a single step in progress. I thought Naruto sucked ass & lost too much, but when I watched My Hero it was actually frustrating, like I actually stood up yelling at my TV to "just fucking hit him you pussy!" like 14 times. Deku is like one of those Hentai characters who "accidentally helps his military brothers wife get out of her stuck bra" & "still doesn't understand what's happening even after penetration/ejaculation" but in Shonen form. You will not convince me that Deku ever becomes even strong enough to stop ole Bomb Bully from giving him daily swirlies & Deku apologizing for getting water on his shoes from his dripping hair.
To be honest I have to disagree with the Saitama take. Saitama isn't that irregular, his world doesn't have a strict power system and there are many characters who are physical (Puri Puri, Darkshine, Tank Top, Garou). And in his case, it no longer matters because he's so beyond his own verse, he doesn't introduce new mechanics or ways to fight. Toji, Mash, Rock Lee and Asta are the best representations. Each time they fight, it's an entirely new combat style, and the other characters are always thrown off and don't know how to deal with it.
I feel like Kamijou Touma from the raildex series is a get example of this and more so with the hubris checker since every time his struggled against a foe its been with someone who isn't just trying to use a very high output attack to produce more power then he can negate , but people fighting smart of who are more proficient in throwing hands
There is this webtoon comic called “hero killer”, where some people have this essence that allows them to use powers. You can either train to use your ability better, or enhance your body using the essence. I like this system, since it uses the system that people get their powers from.
I'm glad someone brought this up cuz they're my absolute favorite character troupe!! I'll say Mashle is actually the best example of this with a powerless person challenged the whole system of a society
Osamu Mikumo from World Trigger is a great example of this trope, bad at combat but a great strategist. What makes it even better is that his opponents are not idiots either, so he needs to pull off some extremely smart plays to make up for his lack of combat talent.
Main JoJos - Struggled to beat Dio - Would freaking die if they even approached Tooru - Don't usually kill people with their own stand Lucy Steel - One shotted Dio using her own IQ - Survived an encounter with Tooru - Killed Mike O with his own stand
@@donovan5656 To be fair he didn't get the benefits until pretty recently, before that he was actually considered defective because he seemingly didn't have them.
Man so many people only remember guy for his fight with madara but let’s not forget that he absolutely clapped the tailless tailed beat not once not twice but three times.
Can't believe you didn't include Obi from fire Force who at the end of the manga went from being the strongest unpowered man to the most powerful in general because the new system was based off of willpower
I want to make a character like that for my manga, but the catch is that he has to have abilities since he is a soul siphoner who absorbs powers. But I really want him to win fights with brute force and physicality.
My favorite version of this is science (typically sci-fi level) vs magic This kind of conflict can be interpreted in so many ways like progress against stagnation, complete parallels, and the 40k approach
In a world of bullshit powers it's so beautiful watching someone be like, "Nah, let's throw hands." I haven't even seen the video but I'm 100% sure I'll agree with everything you say.
Mash from mashle is a good example manz just be breaking the law of physics with pure strength and super flexing while everyone else trynna cheese magic 😂
Irl we have the power system of money, the not way to reach liberation is to say fuck that power system and create our own way of generating power outside of it
Glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks this kind of character trope is the sickest thing ever, like ya sure having a powerful character or characters with magic in stuff with a cool magical power system with powers in stuff is cool, but a character who can overpower those with the power system while being powerless, as in not having the ability of the power system, not using any of the power system, especially if they’re the strongest in the series, is the most bad ass thing ever imo.
Unfortunately alot of the time things like this dont come with healing abilities and if so only slightly enhanced, so characters like this can almost never solo fight or the moment a lethal hit lands, they're out of the fight or has a badass moment before they die. FORTUNATELY they usually have maxed haxed durability
Damn, it sucks that something like this doesn't work SUPER well in JoJo, the only character I can think of is Gyro Zeppeli, as he doesn't really use a Stand (until the very end) but it still an incredibly powerful fighter using The Spin Unfortunately, with how Stands work, it's impossible for a non Stand user to win against a Stand user, since you cant even see or interact with Stands.
Idk if this counts but Shanks was also so cool to me especially towards wano when he started getting more appearances and ik he technically he isn’t powerless because his haki is insane but his whole thing is kind of the fruitless emperor
I think it’s odd bringing up one punch man without mentioning mumen rider, who has no exceptional fighting ability but proves that just having guts can make a difference.
The fact that kenny won most of his fights without a bankai or shikai is just ridiculous to me. And the fact that he also defeated 8th kenpachi without any bankai or shikai....yeah he is a monster
My favorite are the Fanalis from Magi They're basically are redheaded people with immense strength capable of defeating even strong mages to death. They are strong both mentally and physically. They lived on the Dark Continent and quite sad that they didn't get as much screen time in the anime.
imo the sickest trope is when characters who are below average in power are the mcs and have to use connections or just straight up strategy to win. this is mostly an isekai trope but characters like ninomiya from the dungeon of black company or subaru from re:zero rising from basically being specks of dust to forming connections and alliances with powerful people using smarts rather than op mc shit is so satisfying to watch.
Even a character like Batman fits this description. He’s the “weakest” member of the Justice League but he’s arguably the most feared and most important. Through dedication he’s been able to overcome almost impossible odds through superior skill or his well thought out plans.
A caveat though, is all the examples given, Saitama is a bit more ambitious but is implied I feel to also have this apply. Are people who's powers are a result of the power system of their world. Like 8 gates and heavily restriction. And probably Saitamas deals
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“The most powerful of the powerless” that’s cold asf
Fr
Who was he referring it too?
@@windygrass9807Saitama probably
Agreed, should be the name of the video
You mfs are so easily impressed
Rock lee looks cool as hell at the start but then the entire series turns into "the child of a hokage, trained by jaraiya (a legendary ninja trained by a hokage), kakashi (a hokage trained by a hokage), that is given a proverbial nuke in the form of the strongest tailed beast, who turns out to be a reincarnation of one of the absolute strongest ninjas in history" basically proves that through nepotism, insane elite genetics, and literal destiny you too could be the real hero lmao
It is really sad. We have a bit of the reverse situation in JJK (at least in the anime so far), with Yuji basically only being able to use hand-to-hand combat based techniques. That is, of course, we inevitably start to go into his lineage and discover he was born special like all the other protagonists.
@@Baronnax That's the same as how it was in pre-Shippuden Naruto though. Both the audience and Naruto didn't know about his lineage and initially thought that the nine-tails was some kind of curse. He was shunned by everyone in the village, was not inherently good at any techniques, and had to prove himself against his prodigy peers (Sasuke and Neji). He managed to turn the nine-tails into an advantage by the end of the original series and that's about all he got.
Hey, I do think you have really good points, but imo despite having everything seemingly positioned perfectly for him, I think Naruto did the work to deserve all of it.
For example, I would definitely take a bet that 99% of Ninjas could never befriend every single Tailed Beast.
Also as you've mentioned, whilst he did have a lot of people in his life that made things go much easier for him, he didn't just waltz into those positions. People like Kakashi, Tsunade and the Old Frog all had their initial doubts and reluctance about taking him under their wing.
Remember "hard work beats talent" in the chunin exams?
Nah, gEnETicS
Naruto = Bronny James.
Remember when everyone wanted Rock Lee to be THAT guy? Kishimoto forgot all of that
Remember when Rock Lee was that guy. Kishimoto forgot that
rock lee got forgotten and sakura didnt ???
I suppose he was made redundant in part 2 cause might guy was stronger and they basically have the same powers
That's Naruto in a nutshell
He and neji were supposed to die in part 1
Toji had to humble the strongest before he died
He was just first grade with geto. Then he hid and tried to tie out gojo. Then he got embarrassed 😂
Toji was the OG bushcamper, he had to wait three days in that (metaphorical) bush only to fail at killing my glorious blue eyed king
ya'll I was mocking gojo glazers
@@joshwilson8564 bro had ZERO cursed energy, what did you think he was going to do? fight gojo at full power with no cursed energy or techniques? he humbled gojo by tiring him out, if it weren't for him GO/JO would still be a cocky bum who didn't change
@@conigonde because he had zero cursed energy 🤦♂ use your brain fanboy, would you rather fight gojo at full strength with zero cursed energy or techniques, or would you rather tire him out first then fight him? He humbled gojo, died, resurrected and proceeded to give dagon the biggest whooping of his life and then died again to save his son. If it weren't for him gojo would not have developed the way he did and would still be cocky.
@@TheOneWhoAsked33 Zero cursed energy yet for that period before gojo was born, Toji was unironically the strongest person alive. Tf u mean, zero cursed energy is a blessing. You have physicals strong enough to mid diff one of the great clans, natural immunity to domains, THE PINNACLE of jujutsu, basically undetectable, barriers are useless against you and regen as well. You have the entire pack, with heavenly restriction your automatically special grade basically. No need to waste time on learning Ce, just practice with a sword a bit and ur good to solo all grade 1s
This is actually a bunch of tropes combined. For the 3 ppl that cares, here's a lil list:
*1 - "Badass Normal":* Character with absolute no power in a team of superpowered people. Yet, as the name suggests, they can still hold on their own nonethless. Example, Batman in the Justice League.
*2 - "Charles Atlas Superpower":* Trope to when a character with "pure hardwork" and "training", can somehow achieve Superhuman strength, speed, and physique. Aka, Rock Lee and Saitama.
*3 - "Un-Sorcerer":* This trope is when a character, in a world of Common Superpowers, is born without being able to use No Powers at all. Such as Toji, Izuku Midoriya, Rock Lee, Mash, etc.
*4 - "Almighty Janitor":* Trope for character who's from the perspective of others look, seems, or is just an average guy, or completly worthless, while they're simultaneously an unit or a powerful character in a literal or figurative way. Toji is literally that, bcuz of the Zenin Clan making him be classified as an "average non-curse user", as if hes just a civilian.
*5 - "Magically Inept Fighter":* A world where Magic or Superpower exists, but a character either can't use or SUCKS A LOT at them. So, they try and make up with it by training in melee combat instead. Applies to Asta, Mash, Rock Lee, Saitama, etc.
Can i ask where you got some of these trope names from? It sounds both legit and illegitimate at the same time...
@@nirjhar4803Tv tropes is a thing.
toji doesnt fit the troupe at all, he has like one of the strongest powers in verse. Heavenly restriction is busted
@@nirjhar4803 there is a site called tvtropes that categorizes all tropes in fiction. These names are taken from that site which in turn takes these names from the various parts of the inter
@@WhyisAlpharius69Be careful when treading tvtropes tho, you might get sucked in for hours.
They did Leeeee dirty. Bro single handedly got me into anime yet they made him a regular cripple in boruto. At least comparatively
Don't they use Might Guy for this as a substitute
Opening the 8 gates puts a significant toll on the body though, I get it. Would be nice if he saw more action though
Your first mistake was spending even one second with that Boruto crap.
That's Guy...??
“The differences between men are not so vast” me at 6’2 185lbs looking at Hafthor Bjornsson, Giannis Antetokounmpo, LeBron James, and prime Arnold Schwarzenegger
Me a 20 yo young man at 5’6” 115lbs. Yup, totally not a major difference between me and those people you mentioned ;D.
I'm only 5 or 6 lbs heavier than you and an inch shorter. Men truly are created equally.
@@XAnderson27there really isn’t. The time of people’s physical bodies being the defining factor of their worth passed 200 years ago. All of those people are athletes who were/are juiced out of their minds. That’s it. They lift weight and throw ball, that’s not a skill set that truly matters today. Even in war, nobody fights using just their strength. Every man has a gun, and the gun is the ultimate tool to level the playing field. These people you think so highly of as being so much better than you are specialized in a different area to you.
@@XAnderson27I mean at the macro scale you aren’t. You both are gonna get rekt by the same predators and could reasonably hunt the same prey. In any armed conflict people are rarely by themselves instead in groups and the weapons are going to balance out a lot of the physical differences as far as getting hit clean typically means death. Men aren’t equal on the interpersonal basis but on the macro scale we get equalized out.
@@Koifin3 cope
The more complicated and bizarre the power system is, the more impressive it gets when you get so far with hands
As a JoJo Fan, I think Hayato from Diamond is Unbreakable kinda fits in here. I don't know why but the fact that a standless kid managed to not only expose the main villain of the part, but also assisted on the final battle is honestly wild to think about.
He can’t even see stands and he did so much for them.
Right? Hayato had no stand, hamon, spin, spiritual awareness, nothing. Yet because of him they won, if he hadn't called Josuke, or touched Okuyasu when he was a bomb the Morioh Warriors would have lost, over and over again.
@@mp2k1 not over over. But twice only.
The way BTD works is that it is planted onto someone, most likely a non stand user like Hayato. If that person were ever to reveal to someone about Kira's identity, then that someone explodes and time goes back an hour before. Events would still occur just like what happened the first time, including that someone's death despite not doing the same thing in the first loop. However this time, instead of going back an hour before, time would still continue, making the death permanent. But, if the BTD was removed from the person before that someone dies, then that someone won't die.
This means Rohan got lucky. If the rest of the duwang gang interviewed Hayato at a later time, then that would mean Rohan's death would've been permanent. But since the duwang gang "died" just right after Rohan's "permanent" death, time rewinded again right before Rohan's "permanent" death. So hats off to Hayato cause he manage to get Kira to remove BTD from him just before Rohan's time came.
@justinjunkatigbak4576 its what i mean, because if hayato didn't get Kira to remove BTD, then not just Rohan but the Morioh warriors would've also had their permanent deaths as well.
@@mp2k1 yep. Which is why I was really impressed with Hayato. His final scenes are sad though.
"In this moment the victor is decided. Not because he's Satoru, but because he is Gojo."
That goes unnecessarily hard.
No it doesn’t
And is so, so, true.
@@dustina69 mayor of frowntown
@@dustina69 President of bumlandia
@@dustina69Prime Minister of buwomp
At the beginning, Naruto was about how hard work could overcome hereditary talent. Unfortunately, by the end of Shippuden it was about how good your lineage is and you never had to train really, you were a reincarnation destined to basically win against an alien witch
I have not read all of Kishimoto's interviews about his themes, but I have read as many as I could get my hands on.
Based on his words, it seems as though the series message revolves around war and understanding.
He took great inspiration from his Grandfather(who I believe is a veteran), who talks about past wars he survived.
Tailed Beast are supposed to represent nuclear weapons. the "Cycle of Hatred" that was born from war is suppose to be an obstacle to understanding others. Naruto connects to and learns from/ teaches others using "Talk no Jutsu".
You can find evidence of this theme through the reason Naruto created his ninja way(chapter 33 and 43) as well as the antagonist that reflects Naruto himself.
The only thing Naruto got from being Ashura's reincarnation was a generational fade that continues the cycle of hatred.
Naruto was made into the "Child of Prophecy" by becoming Jiraiya's student, not born as one, as multiple could exist at once.
The "Child of Prophecy" could bring the world one step closer to peace or destruction. A reincarnation is "destined" to continue the "Cycle of Hatred" that disrupts peace.
Naruto rose above his shitty life, fought against enemies that resembled him if he ever gave in, and changed his destiny.
Exactly what he told Neji to do.
My ass, it was about hard vs talent. If it was supposed to be that, rock Lee should've won against gaara he didn't. Guy called him a genius of hard work. Maybe it had the elements of hard work Vs talent but it wasn't a major theme in the OG Naruto, the biggest themes of Naruto from what I can tell are bonds, cycle of hatred, peace, war and understanding one another.
@thetele8646 I agree with you.
Guy said that Lee was talented in the Drunken Fist. Kakashi said that Lee was a genius at opening the Eight Gates. Lee capitalized on both by working hard at Taijutsu.
Naruto is a genius when it comes to learning and adapting. Naruto was gifted the 9 Tails because of his Uzumaki DNA. Naruto capitalized on both by working hard physically and mentally.
Lee's ninja way isnt "proving that hard work trumps genius", but "proving that a great ninja doesnt need ninjutsu or genjutsu".
Naruto's ninja way is to "follow his unbending word", created by the fact that he wanted to redefine what it means to be a ninja.
Naruto wasn't destined to win. He was blessed in his path but still had to put in the work. His greatest strengths, every single one, was realized through his connections with others (just like Asura). And to form those connections he had to start by earning even the most meager bit of respect.
The full phrase that is emphasized by this trope is that “hard work beats genius, when genius refuses to work hard”. Both in the TojixGojo fight and the LeexGaara fight, the moment the geniuses had their pride shattered and started putting in effort, they won.
That too is quite realistic. Oftentimes you lose not because you're weak or inept, but because the other person is simply BETTER than you.
In both fights, Gaara and Gojo had an unfair advantage against them, people that can't use cursed energy/ninjutsu, and both are naturally gifted by hereditary blood.
At least in Toji's case, he literally won, the only reason Gojo survived is plot armor. After Toji won, Gojo came later completely healed and with an amp and killed Toji. Again, Tojo WON against Gojo, after that Gojo WON against Toji.
Godfrey in elden ring is a good video game example
Crazy how Godfrey also restricted himself for half the battle.
@@tshirt6555he’s not any weaker with serosh, he just fights more refined instead of wildly
@@youngblackmamba he is weaker with Serosh. That is the entire reason for his existence, to limit his brutal and wild nature as a warrior
@@bofa722WARRRIIOOORR!!!
"a crown is warranted with strength"
I would say that, despite gojo being extremely powerful from the start, him grasping reversed cursed energy and hollow purple after his first encounter with Toji kind of showed how much of a menace Toji and Gojo were despite being born in entirely different conditions. Toji being able to take out one of the top sorcerers without any cursed energy, and Gojo being able to figure out reversed cursed technique, as well as hollow purple after fighting Toji despite it being an evidently very difficult thing to pull off/understand. Both characters are super awesome.
Yes
Gojo "figuring out" reversed cursed energy while open like a book, basically dead, is what we call "plot armor".
@@gannielukks1811 I mean every show has plot armor, doesn't take away from what happened.
@@Minnstro yeah but its kinda cheap, Gojo wins because he's a Gojo, not because he outsmarted Toji or because Toji made a mistake (his mistake was fighting Gojo).
I'm not saying its bad but it plays into showing how unfair the world is...
@@thepowerofsand6180 I don't think his mistake was fighting gojo, I think it was not stabbing him in the head with the inverted spear of heaven/cutting off his head. Toji had won the fight, he died though because he didn't think that gojo was capable of reversed cursed technique. Toji knew that gojo COULD use it though, so this was his mistake more than anything.
It's hindsight for sure, and easier said than likely done. We all knew gojo was strong as hell though, and toji knew that more than anyone, hence why he wore him down.
I also wanna be clear that you're 100% right about the world being very clearly unfair. I do believe that despite that though, both of them were very powerful characters in their own ways. Toji got handed some bad cards, no doubt, however he wasn't handed the worst cards of them all either. Gojo got handed some of the best cards, and gojo took them for granted until the the toji fight. Both characters are goated in their own right, and that's okay.
I also wanna point out that toji was cautious of gojo's eyes, as well as his abilities. However, he wasn't cautious of gojo as a person, any other person would have just died and likely not actually figured out reversed cursed technique. Gojo being gojo as a person is a huge reason why he survived that.
As a Batman fan, this trope always scratched the itch the comics could just never quite scratch. And as part of the predominantly anti-Power Scalers Camp, this trope definitely scratches the lizard part of my brain. "Your guy can bend time and space and reality? Oh yeah? Well my guy...can run the ones."
A trope I love in fiction is just the general tendency to take things to their logical conclusion to the point they become eldritch and detached from everyday reality.
Incorruptible and Irredeemable are both comics that feature BRUTE force application beating reality warpers. A dude uses gravity wells to destroy multiple galaxies' worth of matter, convert said matter into energy and bombard a reality warper with so much force, it overloads his ability to bend reality. It doesn't even make sense on the page. It has to be stated and told outright and even then, the magnificence of it has to be allowed to sink in. It's like encountering the creator of existence and punching him with so much brute force, you actually hurt him.
So what I'm getting is he hit that mf with the big bang?
Y'know, there is a theory that the universe will collapse into a singularity(which often have immense amounts of gravity) and the universe will re-start once again(if the theory is true, the universe has begun and ended multiple times), so, if that theory is true, he hit the creator of existence, by using existence itself as a weapon.
@@internetlurker1850 the villain did this multiple times by the way. He punched him with multiple different universes. Repeatedly until he beat what amounted to a deity into submission.
Damn I got to read those dynamite comics again. I forgot the damn details
@@internetlurker1850 Mobius definitely gave Tony the "big bang" alright.😭🤣💀💀
I know Asta get’s a lot of hate, but I think he is an amazing example. The fact that he can do everything he can is ONLY possible because he is powerless. He is only able to use anti magic because he is powerless. He is only able to carry such a heavy sword because he worked out every day of his life. As the witch queen said, Asta is nothing special at all, but THAT is what makes him special. That quote really hits hard
That’s exactly what I love about him, his uniqueness comes from being what everyone else would never want to be, in this case, unable to use magic. Reminds me of a quote from Vikings, where Ragnar tells Ivar (Who’s a cripple) that he is strong not DESPITE being a cripple, but BECAUSE of it, really turning the problem on its head
My issue with that is he's "powerless" only in name. There is no real disadvantage to his "powerlessness." He can fight close or long-range, he can fly, etc. Other than specific spells (like space or light magic), what exactly can't Asta do with anti-magic?
@@michaelbietsch2864 I mean thats the whole point of the story, at the beginning he actually had a lot of disadvantages. He couldnt fly he couldnt do long range attack all he did was swing a sword around. But we see him grow and work through those disadvantages by getting stronger and figuring out this power that only he can use, because of his crazy amount of hard work and this part of him that made the entire world look at him as if he was scum/less than a human. Thats why its so cool, he works through these disavantages thats the whole point of shounen in general, seeing the MC grow
agreed asta does the troupe best imo (amount main characters, that is)
@@NH-st2uh I never said that wasn't the point of a shounen. I'm saying if a power is supposed to be some grave disadvantage, the workarounds to those disadvantages shouldn't come from within that power, otherwise it's not really a disadvantage - it's just magic that's been reskinned and sold. Black Clover isn't the only series that's supposed to be an underdog series that really just isn't either, Naruto and Dragon Ball are too. And yes, all the characters work hard, but they have very distinct and undeniable advantages that you're forced to pretend don't exist for the sake of the narrative
Technically Toji does have some form of a super power. Heavenly Restrictions could be seen as a power due to the insane stat boost it gives its user and its a result of not having any cursed energy to make up for it. Toji does things that even characters with powers either struggle to do or cant do.
Aside from the obvious seeing curses. He has heighten smell, hearing and so on.
The "shit power but great use" is my favorite archetype in anime, because it can lead to some cool strategies that makes fighting much more interesting
Absolutely the greatest trope. No gimmicks, no tricks, just two hands and youre gonna catch them
tbf toji was blessed with great strength as a result of having cursed energy taken away
Toji is honestly one of the most blessed characters in JJK, insane physical stats and he can still sense curses without CE.
Sure he doesn’t use the magic system but he honestly got it so much better then most sorcerers like Miwa and Utahime.
Now we need the reverse, a mage in a world full of melee users
Stark in Frieren maybe?
@@NamiseSportsuhhh???
@@NamiseSportsstark is a melee user, not a magic user
@@NamiseSportswhat?
Isn't that literally magical realism?
Also, technically speaking, Jujutsu Kaisen and some anime called The Irregular at Magical High School sort of fit that since magical users/sorcerers in these worlds are a small minority despite being the center of the story. It's why Suguru Geto is the way he is in the end.
One of the reasons Kenpachi Zaraki is one of my favourite characters of all time 🔥🔥
2:27 missed opportunity to quote deku and say some men are created more equal than others
isnt that quote in animal farm
@@hampter798 idk i didn’t finish it
@@hampter798yupp. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others
Pretty sure animal farm said that first
@@DylanJo123 pretty sure hampter798 said that first
The "toji's origin" manga, and therefore his backstory of beign thrown in with a bunch of cursed spirits, is fanmade
EDIT: Nvm i'm wrong, it is stated in the fanbook. That manga is still fanmade but the situation is canon
As said in the manga when Maki and Mai got thrown into the pit, the same happened to Toji. So it is canon.
@@privcommenting Where was it stated that the same happened to toji? Definetly not when maki and mai got thrown in there. Unless you take her father's fear as "toji did the same"? I would say that's reaching a little bit, and definetly not qualify that as beign "said in the manga"
@@gloc9531 I wouldn't say reaching because with the panel that says something along the lines of "This is exactly like him... (Toji)" or something (excuse me for not remembering, i havent read the manga in a while) and that one panel where it's Toji and Maki in the same pose side to side, I'd say they treated both non-sorcerers the same. I'm gonna go back and re-read those chapters again, so feel free to ask about anything else you're not sure of man!
@@privcommenting I really feel like that side to side just meant that he was scared of toji just like maki in that moment, not that they were in the same situation, but I guess is up to interpretation
@@gloc9531 Toji also was punished in the same room when he was a kid and its the reason for his scar on his lip. This info comes from the fanbook.
also my favorite naruto fight ever is still rock lee and gaara vs kimimaro because in that fight we see that rock lee could never beat kimimaro, so the fact that gaara shows up out of nowhere to help him is the most badass thing I've ever seen.
Yes, bro. That Rock Lee moment blew my 12 year old mind. Toji blew my 30 year old mind years later.
Mash is one of my favorite examples of this trope
I think another aspect I really like about this trope is how the characters have to be creative and combo the abilities they do have. Aside from Toji, my favorite cases are in Jojo Golden Wind. There are so many fights where in theory one stand is stronger, but by manipulating circumstances they were able to even the playing field.
A lot of the stands in that also had simple abilities pushed to the limits and exploiting its biggest strengths. Take Cioccolata and Secco, taking damage from going downhill seems easy to avoid, but paired with ANOTHER stand collapsing everything beneath you is pretty terrifying.
Garou should've been on this list
FR, Garou was one of those type of characters that beat dozens of heroes with just martial arts.
garou has powers
@@quintonscovens483that comes later.
He has incredible adaptability, as well as being able to copy one's movements via sight. Technically a power
His copy ability is called mimicry, goku (technically semi-mimicry since he couldn't fully copy the kamehameha), and a crap ton of other characters have it too.@joshidk-zy9xj
1:55 “bellow” 😭
This reminds me of the old Nux Taku videos before he started making brain rot garbage. It's rare to see thoughtful analysis of tropes and themes in anime, and you've earned yourself another subscriber with this one.
Might guy almost killed sage of six paths madara with night guy, that scene alone shows that tailjutsu is op as f xd.
Less taijutsu, more 8 gates. But I see your point.
He.. lost
@@atomdecay well it was still the most impressive tailjutsu ever so that's besides the point
@@Reppen555 Yeah, it was the most impressive Taijutsu ever, but he lost. That's like having a Flying competition with a bunch of people who can literally fly, but there's this one guy who can't fly but has the record for the Highest Vertical Leap in the world. Yes, it's the most impressive Vertical Leap, but it isn't anywhere near close to actually flying. Same thing here. I love Might Guy, honestly my favorite character in the entire Naruto series, but you can't say "He lost with Taijutsu, therefore Taijutsu is OP." Also. It was the 8 Gates that almost defeated Madara, not just Taijutsu.
Honestly though this conversation reminded me how fucking hype & awesome Naruto is, so I'm gonna introduce it to my 5 year old right now.
Thanks for the discourse, friend 🤘
@@atomdecay8 gates is a taijutsu technique
Genya from demon slayer fits this for sure. He doesn’t even have a breathing style.
How could you forget about his freedom breathing?🇺🇸🦅🔫‼️
I think we can relate more to such characters (Toji, Asta, Zoro, Rock Lee, Guts) because they just feel more "real" and "human" without the super power stuff.
Why? It's quite simple - because no one could ever relate on a deeper level to a demi god who can control lightning and breathe flames for example, you know they always win and kick as$ so you won't be invested as much.
But when a character with the same weaknesses and limitations as you is on the screen ? A character with an actual human body who trained all his life to compete with all the super power monsters in his verse?
Well... That's when you start rooting for them (even if they are the villain sometimes) because you can finally relate on a much deeper level to that type of character.
And the 2nd reason - because even their skills are ( at least to some degree ofc 😂 ) attainable irl if one would have the discipline to train hard enough and for a long enough time to develop them by hitting the gym, training some combat sports/ martial arts and maybe even parkour for that acrobatic touch to be able to do backflips and all that cool stuff.
And finally - thank you for the video brother ✌️ 🫡 It's always nice to see some fresh content on this trope
Toji has a heavenly restriction that ain’t the same ngl
I love this analysis
Everyone likes an underdog but everyone loves a badass
I've Always loved gojo's writing but holy shit, I never saw the parallel between him n toji Thanks for showing me a diff angle
I love all these kinds of characters. I'm so glad someone is talking about them!
I love characters that spit in the face of how their world is. whether they win or lose, they give it their all.
Rock Lee is the only fictional character that I would consider getting tattooed. That's my guy 💪
In Hajime no ippo, coach Kamagowa says this line, "Not all those who work hard succeed, but those who succeed have all worked hard." It's a tough line.
mashle and deku would also be good honorable mentions
I had to stop watching My Hero after like 35 episodes because Deku was STILL crying in every scene he's in, crying about how "he will never be strong", & constantly failing at every single thing he did at all including but not limited to fights with school bullies. Idk who would want to watch a Shonen anime with a MC who quite literally goes the entire first chunk of the show without making so much as a single step in progress. I thought Naruto sucked ass & lost too much, but when I watched My Hero it was actually frustrating, like I actually stood up yelling at my TV to "just fucking hit him you pussy!" like 14 times. Deku is like one of those Hentai characters who "accidentally helps his military brothers wife get out of her stuck bra" & "still doesn't understand what's happening even after penetration/ejaculation" but in Shonen form. You will not convince me that Deku ever becomes even strong enough to stop ole Bomb Bully from giving him daily swirlies & Deku apologizing for getting water on his shoes from his dripping hair.
Mash yes, but Deku got one of the strongest quirks in the series, that only got stronger near the end.
That’s why Hajime no ippo is so good, all the fights are just straight HANDS
💀
Nothing will ever beat Lee, fully unconscious, hands still up
To be honest I have to disagree with the Saitama take.
Saitama isn't that irregular, his world doesn't have a strict power system and there are many characters who are physical (Puri Puri, Darkshine, Tank Top, Garou). And in his case, it no longer matters because he's so beyond his own verse, he doesn't introduce new mechanics or ways to fight.
Toji, Mash, Rock Lee and Asta are the best representations. Each time they fight, it's an entirely new combat style, and the other characters are always thrown off and don't know how to deal with it.
I feel like Madera vs guy is the final of that as might guy was called one of the strongest in the village by Madera
i love toji so much bro
same (no homo) (optional)
I feel like Kamijou Touma from the raildex series is a get example of this
and more so with the hubris checker since every time his struggled against a foe its been with someone who isn't just trying to use a very high output attack to produce more power then he can negate , but people fighting smart of who are more proficient in throwing hands
Another Index enjoyer ❤
@@hoangquanle3310 i enjoy it so, even if it has some elements I don't still over all more enjoyment then sighs
@@stupogo0 Have you read the LNs?
@@hoangquanle3310 a few behind but i'm in GT , you?
Great video, man. Can't wait to see more from you.
Yes SIR! My favorite trope! Love it
There is this webtoon comic called “hero killer”, where some people have this essence that allows them to use powers. You can either train to use your ability better, or enhance your body using the essence.
I like this system, since it uses the system that people get their powers from.
I surprise you didn't add in Garou(anime version) and Silver Fang.
I'm glad someone brought this up cuz they're my absolute favorite character troupe!! I'll say Mashle is actually the best example of this with a powerless person challenged the whole system of a society
Osamu Mikumo from World Trigger is a great example of this trope, bad at combat but a great strategist. What makes it even better is that his opponents are not idiots either, so he needs to pull off some extremely smart plays to make up for his lack of combat talent.
Bang from One Punch Man became the 3rd strongest hero just through martial arts alone.
Main JoJos
- Struggled to beat Dio
- Would freaking die if they even approached Tooru
- Don't usually kill people with their own stand
Lucy Steel
- One shotted Dio using her own IQ
- Survived an encounter with Tooru
- Killed Mike O with his own stand
The emperor of Britania might have smth to say about "all men are created equally"
This is why I like Demon Slayer so much as a series. It's all about this archetype of character facing off against real magic users.
Sanji: hey do you wana know my shoe size 🤨
But isn’t Sanji a eugenics experiment?
@@donovan5656 To be fair he didn't get the benefits until pretty recently, before that he was actually considered defective because he seemingly didn't have them.
Either way he is a haki user. It would fit the theme if he couldn't use haki
@@AF-oh2qlHaki is a thing everyone can train in One Piece
This might just be the video that gets me to rewatch OPM and start watching JJK for the first time. Thanks lol
2:26 if she found out about antimatter that ability would make more sense xd
Man so many people only remember guy for his fight with madara but let’s not forget that he absolutely clapped the tailless tailed beat not once not twice but three times.
literally the plot of mashle
Can't believe you didn't include Obi from fire Force who at the end of the manga went from being the strongest unpowered man to the most powerful in general because the new system was based off of willpower
Stain from mha lowkey a contender too
I want to make a character like that for my manga, but the catch is that he has to have abilities since he is a soul siphoner who absorbs powers. But I really want him to win fights with brute force and physicality.
My fav is Xavier from Xavier:Renegade angel
"Powers are for the weak"
mashle goes the hardest of all these ngl
My favorite version of this is science (typically sci-fi level) vs magic
This kind of conflict can be interpreted in so many ways like progress against stagnation, complete parallels, and the 40k approach
In a world of bullshit powers it's so beautiful watching someone be like, "Nah, let's throw hands." I haven't even seen the video but I'm 100% sure I'll agree with everything you say.
Mash from mashle is a good example manz just be breaking the law of physics with pure strength and super flexing while everyone else trynna cheese magic 😂
I thought for sure that the example from OPM would be Mumen Rider JUSTICE CRASH!
Irl we have the power system of money, the not way to reach liberation is to say fuck that power system and create our own way of generating power outside of it
Glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks this kind of character trope is the sickest thing ever, like ya sure having a powerful character or characters with magic in stuff with a cool magical power system with powers in stuff is cool, but a character who can overpower those with the power system while being powerless, as in not having the ability of the power system, not using any of the power system, especially if they’re the strongest in the series, is the most bad ass thing ever imo.
I like to call this the Defiance Trope. People able to do things out of sheer spite of others that think they will fail.
Unfortunately alot of the time things like this dont come with healing abilities and if so only slightly enhanced, so characters like this can almost never solo fight or the moment a lethal hit lands, they're out of the fight or has a badass moment before they die. FORTUNATELY they usually have maxed haxed durability
Damn, it sucks that something like this doesn't work SUPER well in JoJo, the only character I can think of is Gyro Zeppeli, as he doesn't really use a Stand (until the very end) but it still an incredibly powerful fighter using The Spin
Unfortunately, with how Stands work, it's impossible for a non Stand user to win against a Stand user, since you cant even see or interact with Stands.
Idk if this counts but Shanks was also so cool to me especially towards wano when he started getting more appearances and ik he technically he isn’t powerless because his haki is insane but his whole thing is kind of the fruitless emperor
I think it’s odd bringing up one punch man without mentioning mumen rider, who has no exceptional fighting ability but proves that just having guts can make a difference.
Kenpachi has the ultimate regular guy technique. Using both hands.
The fact that kenny won most of his fights without a bankai or shikai is just ridiculous to me. And the fact that he also defeated 8th kenpachi without any bankai or shikai....yeah he is a monster
Rock Lee - "fuck them powers, square the fuck up"
Did you see that some guy called HAWIE did a video just a week later covering the same thing?
My favorite are the Fanalis from Magi They're basically are redheaded people with immense strength capable of defeating even strong mages to death. They are strong both mentally and physically. They lived on the Dark Continent and quite sad that they didn't get as much screen time in the anime.
I’m a Mac main in smash so I understand this trope
Gyro Zeppeli might be the most fun one
Maybe doesn't quite fit the trope but this makes me think of Joseph G Newton from Terra Formers
imo the sickest trope is when characters who are below average in power are the mcs and have to use connections or just straight up strategy to win. this is mostly an isekai trope but characters like ninomiya from the dungeon of black company or subaru from re:zero rising from basically being specks of dust to forming connections and alliances with powerful people using smarts rather than op mc shit is so satisfying to watch.
This works better for political drama anime tbh
Even a character like Batman fits this description. He’s the “weakest” member of the Justice League but he’s arguably the most feared and most important. Through dedication he’s been able to overcome almost impossible odds through superior skill or his well thought out plans.
Wysteria is definitely a good one
When all I have is my hands that’s all I focus my training on🫸🏿🤛🏿
Darker Than Black has this big time.
Break Blade, despite being a mecha series has this trope. Limited opperating time, can't use guns or radio. But has high power.
that guy that eats demons from demon slayer is a great example
In the dub they say “Gara has never been hit before” . Rock Lee will always be THAT GUY
No, actually the sickest trope is the random dude who has a gun.
I'M RIGHT I'M LEFT I'M LEFT I'M RIGHT!
I'M RIGHT I'M LEFT I'M LEFT I'M RIGHT!
I'M RIGHT I'M LEFT I'M LEFT I'M RIGHT!
Jin Taejin is the goat of this character type
A caveat though, is all the examples given, Saitama is a bit more ambitious but is implied I feel to also have this apply. Are people who's powers are a result of the power system of their world. Like 8 gates and heavily restriction. And probably Saitamas deals
I know its not anime but maybe batman could be considered the OG of this kind of thing. Just brains and brawn(also $$$), keeps up with practical gods.
Kinda, he didn’t start out this way but he became this because of his popularity