Immaculate: How not to Write a Horror Movie
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- a couple notes!
this video is way more slap dash than usual
because of this there are a few rogue editing flops
but i hope you still enjoy this more casual rambly style!
I'd love your support to keep up the channels momentum after my last video broke youtube rules on violence whoops - and I had to attempt multiple uploads of this video before it met the guidelines - so I think the youtube gods are still made at me.
Thanks for being here x
You can find me on ig and LB @ rachellydiab
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a couple notes!
- this video is way more slap dash than usual bc I wanted to get something out for you all (see community posts…)
- because of this there are a few rogue editing flops
- but i hope you still enjoy this more casual rambly style!
- And remember these are just my opinions, so share your own with kindness 🌹
Yes, I would love some more normal reviews from time to time. Dont feel pressured to always be the perfect video essay girl.
@@Horrorzeit Appreciate that ❤️
@rachellydiab it is definitely a challenge to define something as authenticity but I want to make sure I understand your definition, because it felt like it was never explicitly stated and only implicit.
It seems to me that authenticity can only be original and good. In your segment of authenticity and authorship you talk about not very one is as good as Nolan or song like Beyonce, but that many people want to be like Nolan. Later in the video you said that we cringe at our earlier works due to cringe of how inauthentic and terrible our teenage writing is. But if I understood your view of authenticity correctly, it implies that original and good is authentic. But we have loads of example of what I would consider authentic that fails to meet those two criteria.
I would say The Room is authentic despite how terrible it is, I would call James Cameron's Avatar authentic despite how many easily recognizable sources inspired it. Both Nosferatu films are authentic despite the remake being a shot for shot remake. Writers like Emily Bronte was an authentic author despite spending most of her short life in isolation. Although I agree that outside of cinema inspiration is a great advice it isn't critical for making great works of art that is authentic. My fav Nolan film is Interstellar which took inspiration from cinema. In short I think your singing is authentic even if it isn't taylor swift level of talent. Also prob help with my case if I attempted a definition for authenticity instead of just disagree with yours.
@@UTubeMinistry Hello! No worries, I understand where you’re coming from. Explicitly speaking i don’t think that authenticity always equals ‘good’ work, obviously I do think it can be a factor, but as you’ve shown it can go either way. I know this isn’t a very helpful description bc its so intangible but the authenticity i’m speaking of is really just the feeling that something is truly coming from you (rather than an indicator of skill or even originality) - for me its a sense of creative peace and fulfilment.
When it comes to judging the authenticity of someone else’s work we can never really know, but i think originality is one of our best indicators. Again, not a helpful concrete description, but sometimes things just feel off and that’s what I’m attempting to describe throughout the vid 💐
@@rachellydiab thanks for the clarity. Ii haven't seen Immaculate but how you described it sounded familiar to how people describe their experience with Zack Snyder's recent films. I agree with you, in both case whether it's immaculate or rebel moon, two stories that are derivative and lack the depth of their inspired sources, there is something off. I am not sure if authenticity is the word I would use to describe why they are off. But your right that whatever it is can prove insightful for artists to learn from and make better works of art!
I will rewatch your vid (for a third time) with your explicitly stated definition of authenticity for new insight of your vid!
The whole 'American girl goes to Europe to follow her vocation, sees a girl running away, befriends another girl, then defeats the Evil living in the place she is in" basically is Suspiria, but with nuns instead of ballerinas.
True!!
Just some perspective from a screenwriter here: to get movies "greenlit" / sell a script you often have to write something that is comparable to other films that are successful in the genre. What you mentioned - "It's Suspiria but with nuns" - was probably quite literally the pitch. This is typically why you find many films that resemble other films in Hollywood. Your movie has to be kind of like other movies, but also kind of new, but not TOO new. It's a risk-averse industry that is *usually* going to say NO to films that differ too much from the norm. Not that it can't be done. It's just hard.
@@NicolasCurcioWriter I agree that "Suspiria but with nuns" was the actual pitch, and I understand the risk aversion strategy of producing companies. But sometimes movies are literally carbon copies of other movies, and this is where the feeling of insincerity discussed in the video creeps in.
it has the same shit as the "The First Omen" thats just lazy writing and directing tbh
also Don't Worry Darling in a way, except the Europe part
I saw this film and The First Omen on the same day, and I think a big difference between the two is that a lot of the nonsensical moments in this film only happen “because it’s scary”, moments that people can talk about on their way back to the car but don’t really stand up under scrutiny
Sadly, at the end of the day, all they care about is a check.They're hashing out these movies because of how bad the economy is to stay afloat.
I was thinking of The First Omen the whole video. It had a lit of potential but unfortunately I think it fumbled for similar reasons as Immaculate: needing a twist so badly that it undermines its narrative, homage for the sake of homage (in this case it's more understandable because it is a prequel after all), and choosing an ending for #girlboss reasons.
The little girl red herring character wasn't all that necessary narratively and her inclusion seems to be just a poor attempt to throw the audience off the scent that the main character is the child of Satan. It's super obvious that she is before we ever even meet the girl.
Some of the homage was done very well, the opening scene in particular, but some definitely felt included because it's an Omen movie. The "it's all for you" scene has barely any impact on the story and could have been replaced by any strange or spooky event. A nun dramatically dies in front of all these children but the next time we see said children they're... on a field trip... as if the extremely traumatic thing that happened before their eyes never happened at all.
And lastly I liked the main character quite a bit up until the very end. She was kind, warm hearted, empathetic but also strong willed and devout. The lead actress did a very good job and unlike Immaculate they have her face get child, have her contemplate the unthinkable, and then she fails to do what is necessary. She then gets easily overpowered. This all felt very true to her character. And then the credits roll, you think it's over, only to fade back into the narrative and now she somehow transported herself, her baby, and this tween into some secluded cabin in the woods. She's now this gun toting badass who has the survival skills and steely nerve of an elite soldier. They made her into Sarah Connor, basically, without doing any of the work to get her from A to B, from terrified and clueless everywoman to a calculating survivalist, because that would make a good sequel if they end up greenlighting one.
In the end I thought the First Omen was spectacular in short bursts but failed as a whole, likely because the studio wanted a blockbuster to reboot their franchise more than a compelling horror film.
@@benjamintillema3572I like your opinion as it totally makes sense! I think Anjelica burning herself is rather more than just a homage scene-as we all know, bad things happen around the child of Satan and since Damien was in Margaret's tummy, Anjelica lit herself on fire just like in the original.
For the ending, I don't think the movie needed to be any longer and actually show how Margaret transformed into a badass and moved to a secluded cabin. I think she just has the gun for protection, and the woman HAS dealt with demonic entities which may have made her stronger!
@@benjamintillema3572I loved The First Omen though and the mc too! I'm sad you didn't like it. What are some of your fav horror films?
Do you think First Omen would have been good had they left out the last scene then?
I agree that Cecilia should've initially been ecstatic, but I'd argue the underlying message would be conveyed better if she looked grateful/happy to others while being disgusted at what's happening to her and couldn't explain why. Unwanted pregnancy as a religious person is very traumatic. Even in cases like SA/CSA people would still call it a blessing. There should be more push and pull with her, especially since she's in an oppressive environment and being able to play the part/pretend that you agree with certain doctrines is how you ensure survival in IRL religious community.
Cecilia should've known since the beginning, feel lukewarm/all right w/ the concept or she could be excited but then feels like the pregnancy was a violation. It could be about her not only trying to run away but figuring out why she feels like she has to. Why she feels betrayed by her people, her own body, God. It could be about her trying to survive by pretending while trying to make sense of her situation. The unwanted pregnancy trauma could run so much deeper in religious community bc the violation fundamentally alters her. Faith and being is entwined after all. This concept should've really gone the psychological route
that would've been so good
Fully agree! I just want to add that having her act happy when she isn't with the pregnancy can be relatable even outside of religion OR unwanted pregnancy! I have a very wanted and very planned pregnancy, but even still I am miserable and I hate it, but everyone expects me to be excited and happy and feel beautiful. Its truly so hard and isolating to be expected to enjoy an experience that changes your body so much. Makes you feel like your feelings and your appearance is unrecognizable to yourself. There is SO MUCH that can be explored with the horror of pregnancy and how isolating it can feel when you don't agree with how people see you
@@kathyhenry9512I don't understand.
You have a planned pregnancy and you want it, but you also feel miserable and hate it? How can such a contradiction exist?
I understand maybe you mean you're happy you'll have your baby, but you don't enjoy of the side effects?
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ I've never been pregnant (and hope I never am, that's my *nightmare* ) but the logic here is, indeed, that the pregnancy itself is wanted but the impact it's having on their body isn't. Dysphoria can be an absolute monster, and something people can struggle from throughout pregnancy.
@@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δlet me just say that no pregnant person is happy with all the negative aspects of pregnancy. Most women feel tired, nauseous, sore, and treated like community property. People suddenly think it's okay to grope your stomach, and will suddenly tell you their pregnancy horror stories. All this to lead up to your possible death which our government prefers to that of a life saving abortion procedure
II saw this italian movie that came out one year prior to Immaculate called "Deliver Us" which is the exact SAME premise, but the nun is pregnant of twins (with one evil and one good), playing more with the idea of the anti-christ.. the nun actually wanting it, feeling she's chosen and the movie being a slow descent to hell, with the priest acting as the conscience.
Oh! I’m checking this out
Oh crazy! I’ve seen the poster hahah but i didn’t look into - would u recommend?
@@rachellydiab I think it's better... it was too scary for me tho haha, it's giving very much horror.. I realize I don't like the idea of pregnancy-horror and, just in general, spiritual-horror (it's too close of what I care about). But I think you would be much more satisfied with the suspense, although it is a slow built.
Which in itself is kinda the plot of Blue Exorcist
That movie made my skin crawl and I was wondering why this movie sounded so familiar 😂
I really like the movie Alien as a pregnancy horror film. Finally the men can fear an unwanted creation growing inside them.
I never thought about it like that but yeah.
i legit searched "alien birth scene" to find the "chest burster" scene
One of the scariest scene I have ever seen.
It's already the case, trans men exist
That was exactly the directors idea, to represent woman birth to men
17:38 - a real staple in pregnancy horror that very few people seem to acknowledge as such is Alien. The facehuggers and “forced and deadly birth” aspect, as well as male pregnancies, is a large part of what makes the alien scary…
Its far less conventional than most ‘pregnancy’ horror, but Id argue its a 10/10 for what its messaging and portrayal
I was kind of confused why the priest would so openly and directly tell Cecilia about the genetic engineering. If Cecilia and everyone else knows it's not an act of God then what's the point? None of the characters are fooled. I wish it went more into how a cult-like dynamic would work to instill blind faith and get the other nuns to deny the scientific proof of what happened. In that case, it would create conflict and tension when Cecilia gathers evidence on her own and her peers don't believe her. I think something like that would be a stronger commentary on how the church treats SA victims.
Right it should’ve been a smaller amount of ppl who knew what was actually going on. I can understand the head nuns and priest knowing the reality but the rest of the nuns should not have known. That would also give more reason as to why it seemed like the girl who jumped from the roof didn’t do that herself. Maybe she’s gotten too much information in trying to figure out how to give birth to God’s child and then someone has to stop her
18:08 as someone terrified of pregnancy and what it does etc I think it makes for GREAT body horror
A lot of things our bodies do naturally make for some amazing body horror it’s a shame people don’t tap into more
Yeah, the original body horror is pregnancy, lol. The things the body will do to itself in real life is crazy, like food allergies and even the eyes and body having different immune systems (which means if the body immune system finds the eyes, it'll attack them and you'll go blind) all the way to hallucinations and sleep paralysis.
@@astraamarante6233 oh yeah I wasn’t even touching on your system killing you, I was just touching on how gross the body functions are
But what you say is even more terrifying
Nature provides the best inspo for body horror lol
Despite it being somewhat quirky and campy, Baby blood is a good one if you dig Womb Horror.
Or cancer. Untreated cancer is such a horrifying distortion of the body...
Bloodborne is a great example of female-oriented horror. It takes the themes of blood, pregnancy, and motherhood as concepts and takes them to gruesome and mythologic extremes. Highly recommend.
I like the discussion where you reach a point as an artist where you recognize that authenticity is important, so you just arbitrarily pick parts of your life you think could make a story interesting and shoving them in there, assuming that's what authenticity is.
There's a whole plotline in the show Bojack Horseman about that, where one of the characters (Diane) tries to write a book of essays about how terrible her childhood was, but has trouble writing anything at all. And while procrastinating, she writes a series of silly middle grade detective novels. She struggles with this, because she really wants to write this serious book about her trauma because she thinks that's what she NEEDS to do with her trauma, but it turns out the kid detective books are what she actually needs to write in the moment.
Sometimes the types of stories that you need to tell aren't the ones you think, and once you stop thinking of yourself as a "big serious artist" and instead just focus on what you want to make, it becomes more authentic imo
Great point!
I’m probably biased a sex repulsed asexual, but an aspect of the premise of Immaculate that I think is wrought with horror potential and thoroughly unexamined by the movie is the conflict between the fact that nuns are chaste and sexless figures, people who choose to live lives of celibacy, and pregnancy is so inherently linked with sex and sexuality. Playing on this could have even made Cecilia not wanting the pregnancy feel justified and grounded in the setting. Imagine devoting your life to being chaste in the name of service to a higher power and then, at least to your knowledge, that higher power rewarding your service by forcing you to engage with the very thing you had given up. There is something so cosmically terrifying to me about the idea of a god punishing their worshippers in intimate and contradictory ways, and it works especially well for the sort of feminist pro-choice narrative the film seems to want to have, in the sense of a woman being betrayed and exploited by an authority figure, either mortal or divine, in ways that emphasize her ability to create life over her individuality and desires. There are so many angles from which to approach pregnancy horror, and yet we keep coming at it from the same handful of them, and it starts to make the whole subgenre feel stale.
Yeah it seems people tend to forget because of the "sexy nun" cliche that these women willingly gave up sexual relations, are fine with living without it, and would be horrified if it was forced onto them by a higher power.
@@uniyuki8712 yeah... but like... the whole point of Mary's pregnancy is that it was sexless and painless..plus she kinda was given a choice?? like Gabriel didn't come and say "congrats u are pregnant" but rather "wanna be pregnant with the Savior?" and she was like "Cool thanks!"...
The Immaculate Conception and the Virgjn Birth are different things. The IC refers to Mary being conceived by her parents free of Original Sin, but in the ordinary human fashion. In that sense, a virgin mother who is not Mary herself wouldn't be "immaculate," just a virgin.
Hollywood never gets it right.
Sadly, I have met Catholics who don’t know the difference either.
As a Christian (not Catholic) i always thought it strange to think of Mary as "immaculate" and sinless since thats sort of her son's thing, i feel as though its more meaninful for Mary to be an ordinary girl who followed God's commands. Idk
@@luthientinuviel3883 it's not that she was sinless but she was born without original sin cause by Adam and Eve in the garden, thus allowing Jesus to be born human and without orginal sin as well
@@InternetsPedestrian I see! I don't really agree with that interpretation personally but it makes sense!
@@luthientinuviel3883 are you critiquing the plot of the bible right now? lmao
the IDEA of immaculate and the basic synopsis on its own is pretty unique. Instead of some supernatural force being the main villain, it's just another human being trying to be his own god and subjecting nuns to his experimentation, rather than a demonic entity latching itself to a human host and invading a holy place of worship. It could have gone somewhere but instead it tried bringing in supernatural aspects that had no standing or reason for being in the film. So overall the movie wasn't very good, but the idea of biological horror was very different and i appreciate the attempt at trying to be different despite it falling flat.
The way you've worded this makes the priest character sound so much more interesting! They 100% could've put more of a focus on the playing god aspect - this was I also think he would've felt more like the key villain pulling the strings!
As someone who has been through the body horror, these movies never seem to grasp the truly terrifying things of pregnancy to me. Like, they show the fear of losing yourself, your life or your interests, but rarely as the daunting horror that you feel guilty about.
The body changes always feel the same as puberty is portrayed, when no one I've spoken with has made more than a passing connection. It almost never feels like a person who has experienced the horror has lived through it, or in some cases even seen it first hand.
Weirdly. Midsommar felt thematically quite close for me. The old ones dying at the start, being surrounded by people but feeling alone and vulnerable. Having people be weird and trying to connect with you in ways they wouldn't have previously. Or would do with someone not pregnant. Having your partner be rather unsure, unable or unwilling to help. And then everything climaxes and you want to die cause that was so hard but you are forced into joy because of the hormones that need you to forget everything and love that thing so you can do it again.
I dunno. I just never see that in film. It's always, look at all the blood and gross wiggling! Like, ok. I get periods, so blood is whatever and I saw Alien and The X-Files, so the thing explodes out of body is kinda old now. Give me brooding horror. Give me suspense and show all the ways pregnancy fucks with the chemicals in the brain. And don't have a man behind it all. Have it be all in the mind. Cause that's the scariest part. Have good support and a loving partner and shit. But then the chemicals in the brain just make the protagonist crazy. It happens.
But it would take good writing, asking (mostly) women about their experiences and caring enough to write them down and that would never happen.
Sorry for the rant. Just. Tired of something that should be educated about to help stop the unnecessary trauma and death being essentially a macguffin that scares people into not finding out things that could help them.
All of this is why pregnancy is my biggest fear, only behind death itself.
It always takes all my mental strength to even THINK the word, but I can talk about death without that same feeling.
I've always wanted to write an adaptation of that one movie with the evil blonde children that does something with the fact their moms woke up pregnant and were ok with it. That always felt glossed over.
We do not live in a political climate where "pregnancy makes woman go crazy despite the fact that everyone around her is actually awesome and supportive" would be either financially successful, or worth the backlash for whatever money it did make. The filmmaker and studio would absolutely be accused of making/releasing a misogynistic film playing into "hysterical woman" tropes... probably by this very channel.
I know that isn't the entirety of your point, but I think the way you described Midsommar gave me a new perspective on the film (and life in general, I suppose) that I would have never considered otherwise.
I think Angels and Demons handled the 'woo science meets religion' aspect a lot better, when you find out that the main villain's motivation is because he was a child conceived by IVF by the film's former pope and a nun who did so because they loved each other deeply but didn't want to break their respective chastity vows; he views himself as an abomination because in his mind science was used to intervene in God's plans.
Wow, that’s actually powerful!
Wait, he thought they had broken their vows though? At least at first, he only found out that it was IVF later on.
I believe a lot of writers are unable to differentiate between different Christian denominations. Science used to intervene in God's plan sounds more like an issue for Evangelicalism than Catholicism. The Catholic Church does not oppose science and has been a patron of the Sciences. The idea of there being a conflict between the two is fairly recent and the only issue that it revolves on is Creationism which is from a very specific Christian denomination.
The issue about IVF for devout Catholics would be, "due to the massive destruction of embryonic life, the assault on the meaning of the conjugal act and the treatment of the child as a product not a gift." according to the NIH. Protestants on the other hand do not see IVF as an issue at all. This doesn't take into account how practicing or lenient Catholics will use IVF to have children due to infertility problems despite what the Church says. At the end of the day a lot of Roman Catholic imagery is used because of the aesthetics. It has a ritualistic and older quality to it that makes it look almost "pagan" to those who aren't used to older practices from an older time. It's going to get weird when you realize how alien past societies are to our modern ones.
@@AnnekeOosterink in the book he is indeed horrified because he thinks they had broken their vows. once he finds out that he murdered his father for no reason he starts to spiral
i don't remember the science abomination aspect of it. maybe it was added in the movie, or maybe i just forgot about it
There was a pregnancy based horror that I saw where the main character was a POC woman who was being held hostage by her mother in law. That one was pretty unique because it’s something that has actually happened in real life. MiL saying the baby is theirs and over stepping that familial boundary.
Kindred!
For a second I got these two mixed up and was confused on some of her points in this video lol😂
Not to mention it was almost immediately outclassed in every way by the eerily similar film, The First Omen. I think the fact that the two films are SO similar proves your point that this one (and maybe both) are just an amalgamation of other--better--films.
Absolutely!! First Omen still references and draws on tropes but it’s so much more successful at contextually justifying its story beats/character actions. I looooved first omen.
I really am so tired of the pregnancy horror that ends with not showing the baby. Because you can TELL the difference between a film that knows exactly what that baby represents and what it could look like but deliberately doesn't show the audience for a distinct reason and a movie that has seen other films do that and thought it was artsy so they did the same, WITHOUT considering what that baby truly represents and what it could look like, and instead only with the goal of having a gotcha moment where the audience is kept blind like it's so tired and lazy imo
not being able to see the baby was SUCH a huge failure of the movie that when my friends and i finished watching it, we were all so visibly pissed off at missing out on the fucked up god baby.
only thing i can come up with is that the baby was so scary and horrifying that it being unknown creates more suspense. even so i don’t think the directors were smart enough to use that.
@@sp4cegrl27 i’m of the same mindset! as well as in agreement with exactly with you said at the end. i think not showing the horror can definitely be a wonderful part of horror itself but when the people creating the film can’t even create fear from something they won’t even show ? 🤷
I disagree absolutely. it was crucial that we did not see it.
@@sp4cegrl27I get what you mean, but the rest of the movie fell so flat and was so surface level, so it didn't work
it was necessary to the story and themes that the movie was telling that the baby was not seen. it further heightens the idea of is this actually supernatural or fucked up biology. judging by the sounds it makes it couldve been the antichrist or whatever it was they were trying to do or a normal, but dying child. We don't get to know. the others didn't either. after not having her autonomy in practically any part of the pregnancy beforehand, it felt necessary for her to have a moment (the only one) with her child that didnt have prying eyes. everyone around her wanted to see the child, see if their plan had finally worked. to me, the fact that we dont see the baby gives her some of her freedom and autonomy back. she didnt want any of this, so we dont get to see it, either. nearly a nod to the audience if you want to see it like that. Vital and amazing ending to me. very sorry you didnt see it as such
I watched this and it legitimately felt so odd, the pacing was so fast and I felt 0 attachment to the characters. It's bizarre and just felt scary to be scary.
i havent even seen 'immaculate' but i've been so touched by what you've said about authenticity in art, you speak with such purpose!
this comment touched me!! thank u 😌
That comment you made at the end really resonates (about how hard it is to make a movie), as I made a short film many years ago. In fact, a filmmaker makes three movies: The one we write, the one we shoot, and the one we cut and edit. To maintain a coherent, linear vision, from first word written to last cut of the film, is very, very tricky. Falling into the trap of contrived devices and derivative choices is easy to do.
Another film maker here, and I concur. Good post.
Oh! I absolutely loved that, doing three movies! Woah!
@@jezzarte3587 Thanks. Yeah, it's all a bit too much. That's why I just write and self-publish novels now.
"I wanna watch Rosemary's baby" "We have Rosemary's baby at home"
Rosemary's baby at home:
I feel this way about 90% of possession/exorcism films. Everytime I see a trailer for a new one I get this distinct impression it was made as some type of essential "right of passage" by X newest up and coming horror director without much care to do anything other than get compared to The Exorcist. I can only take so many flashing clips of Catholic priests and sweaty greasy haired girls in nightgowns before my own eyes roll back in my head. Theres soo many cool unique thing horror could be doing with possession but producers would rather regurgitate the same iconography and people will just consume it like getting fast food when they dont know what to eat.
As a woman, I’m of a similar mindset to you. I like when men take the time and effort to centre female leads in their work. Mike Flanagan with his horror series and David Lynch with Twin Peaks are my best examples. They introduced very real, very complicated and engaging yet flawed women who drew you in.
The fact that characters like Nell Crane and Laura Palmer are characters written and directed by men doesn’t diminish them, and certainly not the incredible actresses that play them.
Men can write women and women can write men. They should be encouraged to do so, to add to the conversation and continue to create…but there are times when it just doesn’t feel right.
For women, it’s when female authors create monstrous, toxic, absolute abhorrent male love interests like Edward Cullen and Christian Grey that you’re supposed to not only be attracted to but also side with and want to root for, despite how horrifying they are. For men, it’s female characters experiencing horror around assault, pregnancy and child rearing.
Technically there is no law that they can’t create these stories and write about them…but there is still a feeling of unease in the viewer anyway.
or is it just your elitist perceived inner morality stopping you from enjoying a piece of entertaining media that is not supposed to be morally right in the first place because it shows you that maybe you aren't as good as you perceive yourself to be when you enjoy the content?
What bothered me the most about Immaculate is that it's little more than convent horror, church horror; everything you fear about catholics without a lick of nuance or tension. Like, if you were raised catholic or went to a catholic school like me, you'll know these people are scary in a completely different way.
Plus the last scene? Ready or Not really wants it's homework back.
Yes, I've gone to Catholic school for eight years of my life, I even like to do research on Catholic history too, and the film felt like such a shallow representation of the church. There are so many parts of Catholic culture around the world that are traumatizing, intense, or beautiful that they could have tapped into, but it's very clear they did no research.
Also the fact that they used Papyrus Sans for the titles pissed me off even more 😂
I will say this, as for the self unalivement, and please do not think that everyone who suffers this event feels the same way because every case is obviously different.
When people unalive themselves, sometimes they really are trying to send a message and sometimes they are not. It's not uncommon common for people to lose control and simply unalive themselves in the heat of the moment. This is why we have crisis call lines. All that said, it is not at all uncommon for friends and family to wonder for the rest of their lives..."why?" When you plan your death ahead of time, you may write a letter or "set the stage", or you may not be capable for whatever reason. And more often than not, what we find in those letters is a struggle that has been hidden for a long time, kept deeply secret from those who could have helped. And even if they DO tell you why they've done it, you wonder for the rest of your life, what else were they hiding? Did they not trust me? Did they think me incapable of helping? Did they feel unworthy of being helped? Why were they so focused on this one thing? Why could they not move past it?
Those who are left behind pay the price with guilt and rage and confusion and a sadness so deep that we don't bother trying to explain because no one who hasn't felt it will ever understand. It is impossible to communicate how deeply and completely this event changes us.
I guess this is my really long winded way of saying that I think the suicide in the film is pretty realistic. It's almost never cut and dry. You can't wrap it neatly with a pretty little bow. It's messy and confusing and no matter how many hours you put into explaining it, it will always be messy and confusing. There will always be questions left unanswered. We can't always find the "reason" someone's mental health deteriorates, and that is the scariest, hardest, nastiest part of it. "Why?" is a question I will ask myself for the rest of my life, but of course, movies don't last nearly as long.
I’m so sorry for your loss, and i think you have a beautiful way with words.
In a film when we only have a limited amount of time with characters, it's so important to flesh out their motivations and have their actions make sense. I felt the unalivement in the film was more for shock value. We didn't spend enough time to fully understand why she would make that decision. It just didn't really make sense.
Of course in real life things are much more complex. Two years ago I lost someone I loved and using your words "it is impossible to communicate how deeply and completely this event changes us" (beautifully said). I want to add it is also impossible to fully understand the reasons why a person would make that choice and you can destroy yourself wondering why. Moving forward is the hardest part, some days are easier than others, it ebbs and flows. It's sort of like an open wound that never heals, this raw pain you can always feel. *My advice, if you will read it, is not to blame yourself. Don't drown in guilt, it isn't what the person you love would have wanted.*
Whenever you are in this world, I hope you are healing. I'm sending you love 💖💖💖
Thank you for sharing your thoughts so poignantly.
Regarding the film specifically I don't personally feel that they grounded it enough to earn the real world context that you describe. I think the film attempts to give us a clean why, it's just a flimsy reason - but within the real world I completely understand your sentiment and really appreciate you for being so vulnerable here.
Thank you for watching x
@@rachellydiabThat is sort of my point though, it feels realistic to me because of how sudden and shocking it is. Most suicides seem to come out of nowhere and we don't necessarily see them coming. It's a horrendous shock to find out that someone was struggling so badly that they couldn't take it anymore. We assume people will just continue the fight forever because that's what's noble or whatever. Suicide is often seen as a coward's end; it's "wrong" or unnatural and there is no preparing for the shock of finding out someone made that choice.
That said I think I did get a bit swept up in the emotional aftermath in that comment, and you definitely have a point. It feels sort of like watching a movie when you've read the book - things make sense to you because you have more context than someone who didn't read the book. My background knowledge of that real world event doesn't necessarily mean the film did a good job for someone who hasn't experienced that event in real life, which is something you are more likely to notice when you go into the film with a critical eye, as you have. You also can have experienced that event and not be swept away in a film portrayal though, which I think is closer to your view of the film. So in a way I think we are both right. The movie didn't do a particularly good job, but I don't think they didn't do a particularly bad job either. The setup was definitely bad, but the aftermath is what feels real.
Anyway I love your videos, keep up the great work!
Why are you guys saying unalivement? Lol It's not tiktok you can say suicide
Omg I completely agree with all of your takes!! I watched Immaculate directly after watching First Omen which made it so much more disappointing. I totally felt like the writer/director did not have a true understanding of pregnancy. And I was sooooo disappointed that they made the baby sound like a monster and didn't even show it. It would've been so much better if you saw it look like a normal baby and she still kills it. It would've worked better with their pro-choice message.
I would really love to hear you talk about First Omen! It was so wild having two nun pregnancy horror movies come out at the same time and comparing them with my friends has been super fun
I didn’t watch first omen till after making this video but i LOVED it. I felt that it succeeded at everything immaculate failed at - bc u could dig into each aspect of the story/imagery and justify why it was happening!
Having not watched the film this genuinely sounds incredibly close to the plot of Silent Hill 3, and what happens to Cheryl
I have not played the games so I can’t compare but I have such a soft spot for the first Silent Hill movie 🥲
@@rachellydiabLOVE the first Silent Hill movie, flaws and all. Incredible atmosphere and scenes that have stayed with me for years.
I haven't watched this film either but I have watched playthroughs of Silent Hill 3 and I gotta agree it is a very similar concept! Silent Hill 3 definitely makes a lot more sense with how it handles Cheryl not wanting it bc she isn't remotely apart of the cult so of course she doesn't want to have a creepy ass baby for them, whereas Cecilia being a willing nun brings into question why she isn't down
The fear and horror around pregnancy i feel is something which will only grow in the horror genre, tbh. Do i watch horror? No, I'm a chicken 😅 BUT i love your work and how you dissect these topics
Thank u Bryony! 💐
How to implement something you like as inspiration versus imitation is probably something every creative can relate to and I really like how you present that struggle here. Another perspective I really like actually comes from Night Mind. He made a series on how to make an ARG, and in one of the videos he talks about taking the thing you want to imitate and breaking it down to find what it is about that thing you’re drawn to. And then using those pieces in what you’re making. (The example he has of him doing this is very good too. I appreciate that he actually showed it was possible and what it could look like.)
Anyway, that’s always really stuck with me and regardless of the medium I always try find what about the inspiration I like and find new ways to implement them.
I know this is probably not important to the movie - but the immaculate conception did not refer to the birth of Jesus. The immaculate conception referred to the birth of Mary. Basically, Mary’s parents had sex but did not pass on original sin, thus making her conception ‘immaculate’. Mary being made pregnant with Jesus is called ‘the annunciation’.
Anyway, sorry about the pedantry.
Conspiracy that this film was written by AI is coming together nicely 😂
Honestly, a cobbled together plot that doesn't quite make sense because the elements don't really connect into a whole, plot elements from many different stories, many moments that are only there for the cool shot but don't actually contribute anything to the plot... I also jumped to "AI wrote this", because that makes sense.
While like. Yeah, that could be entirely possible.
I think it's important to remember people can just write poorly.
@@AnnekeOosterink The movie was already in production eight years ago, when she auditioned for it in 2014, but it never got made and the entire thing went nowhere. Sydney admitted to liking the screenplay, at the time written by Andrew Lobel, so much that she bought the rights to the story and reimagined it with a new group of writers, to make it fit with her persona now (since the original screenplay involved Sweeney playing a sixteen-year-old entering a Christian boarding school). This is no case of "This is so bad Ai must have written it", even because eight years ago Ai wasn't a thing and the film was already being done by the summer of 2023 and Ai took over around December-January of this year. It is the case of a movie, that if it had come out when it was supposed to people would have eaten it up even with all its plot holes but now that so many movies have already come out with the same premise and plot, it's no longer original and a bore for many. They obviously didn't rethink the story too much and that was their downfall. It's also a matter of Sydney producing the movie with very little resources and time causing a lot of things not to make sense. The movie is an hour and a half and that is clearly not enough to tell such a complex story. I bet if they had more resources, time, money, and a better writing team and if the movie had been a mini-series Immaculate would not have been so average after all.
Did she kill the baby as an act of autonomy that the forced pregnancy had robbed her of or just because it turned out to be a demon baby? I thought it was the latter and thus didn't need to see the baby because 1) my imagination would probably churn out something creepier than they could come up with, and 2) the implication of stripping the humanity from real life "ugly" (obviously not demonic but perhaps disabled and/or with birth defects) babies would bother me.
19:21 "with a group full of hooded loser standing over her" lmao
She should have devoured the baby, Saturn style. That could have saved the movie.
In all seriousness though, what is Sydney Sweeney’s agent doing? I haven’t seen Euphoria but know of it. I saw this movie where she played a tortured pianist who’s mentally going through it, and now this??
What a weird and/or uninformed take...? She's the executive producer and the ONLY reason the film was made, according to the director. She didn't make this movie with a gun on her head lol
Haven't seen the movie, but when I first heard about the red faced, evil cult people I thought it must be ceremonial, that they only wear those red tights when they were away from the public eye doing their thing.
I proceeded to burst into laughter when I saw them just casually hanging around 8:16, staring out windows in full view of anyone passing by.
Interesting thoughts! I would argue that everyone does have the potential to create masterpieces of art or film: But the thing that needs to be understood is that it’s a learned skill. People aren’t born with innate artistic talent, Whether it’s writing, film making, singing, drawing- It’s something that, if you want to be good at it, you have to practice and create and study the hell out of it. Your first few paintings or short films aren’t going to be masterpieces. If you’re a skilled writer who has spent years writing and learning how to convey themes and symbolism and messages and you truly understand what makes a good story, then you’ll be better at creating a film. I think you’re right in thinking that so many people think they can create masterpieces because they’re inspired by other works, but it’s often done by people who arent as experienced in filmmaking and the results may turn out poorer.
Maybe I’m being overly positive optimistic “anyone can create art!” But i do think that good art Can be made by anyone- You just have to invest months and years and years of time it takes to develop those creative skills and also have a real passion for what you’re creating.
I don't know. There's something to be said for trying to improve your craft and working on your strengths and weaknesses. It's up to a person to say "That's not for me", so I'm reluctant to advise anyone else "You just don't have it, stop trying", because so many creators that ended up being great and influential were first told no, or that their contributions were bad and they didn't have it. But also, where you're at in life and what your motivations are for writing or making something should be examined. Wait in the Wings has done some great videos looking at musicals that went wrong because they were trying to capitalize on the mega-musical trend of the 80s (including, appropriately, Carrie), and I think the same goes for horror movies like this one that are just pulling from what others are doing without anything new to say or add.
I agree with everything you said. I wanted to love Immaculate. Maybe my expectations were too high for the film, but I was just left feeling, "Meh." Rosemary's Baby is still far more effective than Immaculate, and that movie is over 50 years old.
Also, I know Sydney Sweeney can act and that Immaculate was a film she fought to get made, but her performance in this film was so undercooked.
The convent: "You are going to have the second coming!"
Cecilia, "K..."
This outfit is EVERYTHING I love it and your hair and makeup so much!
thank u 🥰🥰
I devour, I mimic, I am but a reflection of what I have seen and sensed.
I shred and sever, and tear and trim all around me
to regurgitate it on a blank canvas I can call my own.
leaving not a drop that came from me.
I am a thief, of the greatest kind.
And a lier of the worst.
that's actually something I think about a lot when I make a painting or write something. where is this coming from?
years ago I started writing down my inspirations for different projects, what drove me to create this specific thing, what shredded bits did I steal to make this?
usually the lists are long. a dozen and more items, taken from art, from film, from feelings and insolents around me, from friends and strangers, and from stray thoughts and stories.
I live and create by the idea that not a thing under the sun is original. but that dosent mean its is bad. at the same time this video gave me some food for thought about things being derivative, if something needs to be done right now. and even if you want to tell the same story as someone else how do you Make it genuine to you?
good food for thought.
thanks for the video.
11:28 I just want to point out as an Italian that Isabelle during that scene also shouted out "Ci devo riprovare con me" which means "They have to try again with me" so Isabelle knew everything not because she had a suspicion but because she too had been in Cecilia's shoes, as in, she too tried to carry the baby, but more than likely ultimately failed to either conceive it or miscarried it, which made Father Tedeschi move on on his next lab subject, in this case, Cecilia, and that is the reason why Isabelle is so cold to Cecilia when she arrives, she knows that they will try it with her and if she succeeds all the hard work that Isabelle has done to birth God come again will go in vain because of Cecilia. At first, she tries to persuade it by telling her all about the hardships of the convent, as if concerned for her, but when Cecilia does not relent she grows cold again towards her. She then seems calmer about the situation when Cecilia does not show any sign of a pregnancy only for her rage and hatred to come back when it's announced that she actually is, leading to her trying to take Cecilia's life with her bare hands, thinking that if she gets rid of both Cecilia and the baby they will find someone else for the job or perhaps come back to her and have her try to conceive again. She gets carried away, probably put under Tedeschi's care when he hears of Isabelle trying to harm Cecilia, and more than likely gets tortured by him and has her die for it.
The First Omen really exceeded where Immaculate didn't imo 😭😭
I grew up in the church too, I remember when everyone had really amazing stories about salvation and having visions and saying prophetic things. It made me jealous of people who had suffered because they supposedly had more of a special way of coming to god. I remember i wanted some sadness or some intense ness in my life, so i often fabricated it. I still don’t know what I feel about god, but these days I’m more ok with being just ok at things.
I definitely have some bad writing I did in middle school and highschool that stemmed from me wanting to be good at writing even though I don’t think my heart was in it. I’m a painter now, I went to school for it and I still struggle a lot but at least my heart is in it, I believe in it. And I want to be authentic while doing it. To not be the idea of what a painter is, but to just be a person, a person who happens to paint and has the desire to be honest through it.
I'm about halfway through and I like the film critique so far, but I just have to say that I don't agree with your points about authenticity at all.
I really don't like this way of thinking, that artistic genius can only come from people who are innately talented, 1) because it diminishes the hard work that a lot of these people have put into their craft to refine it and get better at it, but 2) and more importantly, because it discourages people from WANTING to put in the work at all. Like, I started to crochet during the pandemic, and at first I was shit at it, but then I practiced more and more and got better, because I really wanted to be able to crochet. That's not because I have some innate ability or talent for fibre arts, or because there was a special fire burning inside of me to push me to crochet that other people don't have. Likewise, I don't know you, but I'm reasonably certain that if you had really wanted to be a songwriter, you could have taken steps to practice and refine your writing. Obviously some people might have some form of inherent talent or passion for something that makes it easier for them to pick up a certain skill, but imo it's just dangerous to imply that we should leave the arts to those of us who are blessed with talent and passion, because us normies just can't even hope to get on their level.
I also don't agree that authenticity has to do with the author's intention behind a piece, we as an audience have no way of knowing that. The moment a piece of art is consumed by someone else the author doesn't have a monopoly on its interpretation anymore. Film is an inherently communicative medium, and its meaning arises in communication with its consumer. One movie can have vastly different interpretations and meanings depending on who is watching it, and imo the author really doesn't play any role in that process, or at least they shouldn't.
Maybe it’s not clear in the video but I’m not saying people shouldn’t develop their skills or put effort into learning. Not at all. In my eyes that’s a matter of ability - rather than authenticity.
At the end of the day it’s a personal argument and it won’t resonate with everyone - I just know for me there was a huge shift in the work i created when I started asking myself where my ideas really came from. That also
doesn’t mean everything needs to be deep and personal, it doesn’t! But i think a lot of us put on a parade for ourselves that we’re creating something meaningful when we aren’t.
Thanks for watching 💐
I quite dislike your first point and I think this is why people who aren't into religious philosophy shouldn't critique movies about religious themes. The whole point of Cecilia being the chosen one and not the sister who drowned her is because of christian philosophy. They needed someone not prideful but pure and movie showed how Isabella [the one who drowned her] wasn't pure, she was prideful screaming how it was supposed to be her who gave the birth, obviously signalling to the biggest sin in christianity which is pride. For the same reason they couldn't just announce such genetic project and pick any random woman. The movie portrayed this very well if you top that with her ice accident, Cecillia's pure nature was also the first theme of movie when as she just came to Italy and had the talk with the officers. The movie gave quite few hints as to why it was her.
But I do like your points on inconsistency.
a major plot hole for me (unless i am confused about something) is how somehow the staff at the convent knew that cecilia was pregnant before she did??? (i know that they put the baby there but i mean for story purposes.) they interrogated her about her “purity” and cec was COMPLETELY oblivious and blind-sighted by the fact that she was pregnant (besides the fact that she had been throwing up, but either way she was still unaware of her pregnancy) So why did she not question how they could have known about her pregnancy before she did?? i know that they already knew because they put the baby inside of her, but why did she not question how they could have known?? they gave themselves completely away and they could have EASILY written around it. it felt like they tried to rush past that scene to avoid the thought which is frustrating because that is LITERALLY the start of the actual plot. This is the moment. The reveal of the pregnancy, and they just walk up to her and tell her :( i hope this makes sense 🙏✨ it would have been more natural if she had maybe noticed a bump, had them examine it etc and then conclude it was a baby so that they could play dumb for the plot- but instead i feel the movie rushed it and hoped that nobody would question it.
I really wish this movie would have thought itself through more. It just felt like every moment of the story that was supposed to have impact was ruined by the fact that they didnt write a reason for it to happen. This movie was all fat and no connective tissue. I saw that you also (like me) preferred the first omen. In my opinion every scene of horror that happened in the first omen served an actual purpose besides just being a scene that needed to happen. It all added up. this movie was just a series of events and a shocker ending (which wasnt that groundbreaking in my opinion.) Even her performance during the birth scene which i had heard was AMAZING- was honestly mid. yeah she was screaming ig but imo she did not seem like she was in any actual labor pain. She was just kinda yelling???? i hope this comment makes sense lol sorry for typing so much and ty for making this video it was REALLY in depth and pointed out a lot of issues that i hadn’t considered 🙏 plz upload more reviews i will watch !!
Inspiration vs imitation. I think that sums up the problem. Just doing the ‘what’ instead of the ‘why’. You want to be inspired and create your own work channeling the feelings it gave you. You don’t want to imitate and say “they did this to make me feel that”, so I’ll do the same thing. Ask why you felt that way or how the feeling helped the story and find your own way to create that feeling. Inspiration not imitation, it’s something NightMind talks about on his TH-cam channel for webseries.
It's "eat your cake and have it too". If you HAVE a cake and eat it. If you ate your cake, you can't have it. 😅
I admit that I never quite understood this expression, but the way you put it makes a lot of sense xD
It's nice to hear someone who has an opinion that makes sense to me. I feel that popular art today is not very original or inspiring. It seems that Hollywood is afraid to print an original idea. Making money off of the same formula is understandable from a business view point, but not from the view point of a consumer. I'm glad that you would just put this video out, going from your gut. I appreciate the honesty.
11:00 Honestly when I watched it, I thought she had been attacked and then pushed off to make it seem like a suicide when it wasn't-because of how marred her face was. Yeah, she was jealous, but her jealousy ultimately led her to interfere with the convent's plans. Father Sal even says she's mentally ill, which may not even be true but just a cover up to make her "suicide" seem real.
Honestly, I think Abigail did the homage/copy aspect pretty well. The whole movie is so over the top and only selectively takes itself seriously that it's just an all around good time. And if it ever comes out on DVD (I know, not likely), I'm getting it.
just started this, so it may be covered, but for the idea of 'pregnancy is body horror', i highly recommend Hell Hole, which just came out. does such a fantastic job.
clicked on this out of spite bc my friend wants me to watch immaculate (personally would rather die than watch pregnancy horror xoxo) and was just blown away by the authenticity discussion. i'm in film school rn and i've been in a weird crisis of "is this worth it" and "do i really want to spend my life in this evil evil evil industry" and mainly "am i even any good at this" and you immediately reframed that doubt in a healthy and productive and generally kinder way. thank u for that, this genuinely really helped set me at ease :D
hahaha - aw thank you so much, what a lovely thing to say. If you've got it you've got it, so hold on and keep going! x
I have never really seen the movie before, but what you said by 30:53 really made me look back at my writing (specifically fanfiction) and it made me think "Am I writing this earnestly?" Because right now, I'm currently writing a fanfic of TF2 with The Little mermaid as an AU. And so far, I was just rewatching clips and writing them into my fic. But now that I took a bit of a break from writing, I'm looking back at my work and I cringe. Thanks to your words, I won't be copy pasting the scenes into my fanfic. I won't be taking in every detail, setting it piece by piece, then typing it all out on my google docs. I'll think. I'll take inspiration, but will also type my own scenes filled with love and thoughtfulness. Because as an artist, that's what I want. I want my works to be beautiful and written from the heart with raw emotions, so that the readers can feel, and relate to the characters. Thank you.
Ok so everything this movie did wrong there is a fantastic film called the first omen that does pregnancy horror so much better and I would love to see you cover it please ❤❤❤
The First Omen was much better for sure but still extremely derivative I mean it's literally a prequel
Yes it's been on my list a little while, just waiting to get a good copy of it! Thank you 💓
as someone who feels uncomfortable and hates the concept of pregnancy in general i could never watch movies such as this, because i just can't stand the visuals related to pregnancy and/or it being explicitly shown at times. pregnancy was always a fear of mine 😭
Great analysis as usual 🙌 i feel this video was a cosmic callout tho 😭 I've currently been working on sketching ideas and sewing pieces in an effort to create my own wardobe. I have all these screenshots of inspiration but i want to make sure its not an imitation of someone else's work. I've been so conscious of wanting to create something authentic to me and original ugh. i have a yard of fabric in front of me so ig its back to my sketch pad lmao
I'm actually exactly the same with sewing!! My inspo folder is vast but I find it really hard to translate it into anything other than a copy. But starting with imitations isn't always a bad idea because as u perfect some of the technical stuff it might bring you to the point where ur having ur own brill ideas 🧚♂🧚♂
Sewing isn't really similar though I mean pattern books are a thing for a reason.
Sometimes being unoriginal is more authentic. I've definitely found that just working out what inspired you and what you liked about it can get you out of writer's block while all my best truly original ideas are unworkable.
I think it's a strange to make not one but three nun conception movies in short amount of time. I believe that it's a tenuous connection to be using the art and themes of the 1970s without looking at the modern world and seeing what ways you can modernise your film.
To be exact in my point, immaculate, deliver us and the first omen seem to be films about reproductive rights and the seeming roll back of female agency of their own bodies. Instead of using modern themes on why this is happening they use the tired tropes of the Catholic Church against women even though the landscape has changed.
If film has nothing to say that is outside of Rosemary's baby at home then maybe they should not be talking at all.
While watching this video, I began to notice an awful lot of factual errors, obvious missed implications, missing context, and general misunderstandings of Immaculate’s themes and purpose. I started going by timestamp to give my thoughts on everything I could, but I eventually realized we have very, VERY different understandings of this movie, movies in general, and what the point of storytelling is, so I’m going to leave this unfinished and post as-is. If you can’t tell from my long ass ramblings I am a HUGE fan of this movie, so if anyone’s seeing this please please please leave a comment? Talk to me about my cool new movie? I have thoughts about it and I want to discuss them with others : ) also it's too long to post in one go so I'm gonna do replies
4:14 we actually see what happens to the woman who runs away at the beginning of the film in the exact shot you used here! She’s in a box, with dirt/dust coming down from the lid as she jostles it- she’s been buried alive.
4:45 I get how you would have assumed this, but the branding of Cecelia and this woman’s feet are most likely related to an attempt at a jesus baby, not running away- the woman who tries to run away in the opening is buried alive, and we can infer from the old woman’s general alive-ness that this didn’t happen to her.
4:57 not a fact check, I just wanted to say that I disagree with this point. It’s set up in Cecelia’s arrival at the church and by her vows that she enjoys being a nun, but is disturbed by the weirder rituals of the convent (E.G. kissing the bishop’s ring). Also, the main horror point of the movie is Cecelia’s forced pregnancy, and I think it would have a lot less power if she was excited to be pregnant. The fact that she doesn’t want the baby is the point. That’s where half the horror of the movie comes from.
Also, we do see cecilia go from a “excitable good girl” to learning what’s been done to her is wrong. The scene where Cecelia first enters the convent, her vows, and the montage afterwards all establish that she’s happy to be serving God, and the sudden shift into horror when she learns she’s pregnant is a deliberate choice by the writers.
6:20 a major point of the film is that the baby isn’t a god baby or a devil baby. The baby is a product of the oppression of the church, which is distinctly not portrayed as synonymous with God (E.G. Cecelia still believes in God even when she learns the truth of the convent, and quite literally uses her faith as a weapon to escape the convent, killing three members of it with a cross, her rosary, and the nail reliquary respectively.) You could hypothetically argue that the convent is satanic because it exists in opposition to Cecelia’s faith, and because of the one verse hidden behind the painting, but that interpretation glosses over father Enzo’s speech about his dedication to God and actively serves to flatten the narrative. I think there’s a stronger argument to be made that the verse is a metaphor (as in, ‘hey maybe these guys don’t have my best intentions at heart’), and the writers are trying to criticize the oppressive power structure of the church.
I do agree that the movie doesn’t really have a ‘twist’-- IMO it’s much more of a boil the frog type story- but I don’t really see a need to mention this as the opinions of the new york times aren’t the text either of us are here to discuss, so. Moving on!
7:22 the text you added here deliberately ignores the context of the scene it’s in- this is a scene where Cecelia is actively happy to be here! You’ve just clipped the one part of the scene where her friend it chastised for laughing a joke she made.
7:35 Cecelia is not ‘scared and skeptical’ from the start of the film. There are multiple establishing scenes where she is confident and at home in the convent. She only starts to be skeptical when she finds out she’s suddenly and inexplicably pregnant without her consent, which is a reasonable reaction to finding out you have a baby you didn’t ask for.
8:12 I do agree that the red-masked figures were kind of unnecessary, but if you pay attention you’ll notice they actually serve a narrative purpose. The red-masked people show up just before instances of the convent doing something suspicious off-screen (E.G. they drag the woman in the opening back from the gate, one is in the room just before Cecelia passes out and is impregnated [and are the ones touching her face while it goes down], they appear in the window before Isabella tooootally kills herself no foul play there no sir-ee! Also, they’re not literal. It’s visual shorthand for something creepy happening that the writers don’t want you to see directly, and any attempts to analyze them as if the convent has a squad of red-masked goons at its beck and call will make no sense because of this.
8:52 These two scenes could quite literally not be more different. One is shot from far away; one is a close-up. One is a ritualized act of assisted suicide between two unnamed side characters; the other is Cecelia violently attacking the head nun so she can escape captivity. One has no music; the other has a violently swelling orchestral piece. One is outside, the other inside. One is light, the other dark. The angles of the shot aren’t even remotely similar; Midsommar’s is shot from the side at mid-distance to emphasize the absurdity of the premise, and Immaculate’s is shot close up from the perspective of the mother superior to emphasize the visceral nature of the action. You’ve also missed the two other examples of Cecelia raising a weapon over her head that are shot from a low angle (the chicken in the montage and the baby at the end), and in doing so have completely disregarded the visual representation of Cecelia’s character growth throughout the movie. The only thing these shots have in common is that an old person is being fatally bludgeoned in the head with a heavy object, and it’s not like midsommar invented the concept of head trauma. I encourage anyone reading to look at the clip from this scene (shown at 8:40) and then go watch the scene in Midsommar- it’s on youtube under the name ‘midsommar cliff jump scene’. See if you find them similar yourself.
9:05 I agree, there is a lot of graphic imagery in Immaculate, yeah- but I think that’s partially the point? Like, this is a film about the horror inherent to the oppression of the christian church, intersecting with biological and pregnancy horror. Why would anyone make a movie about biological horror without blood? The gore’s there for a reason, man.
9:34 I get that both of these scenes are red and involve many hands, but I feel like it’s kinda rude to just assume that therefor Immaculate is, like, copying them. Hands are a great visual indicator of a character having something happen to them without their consent, and red is often used to make scenes seem tense or sinister. It’s not like it’s rocket science to combine the two.
10:05 the two scenes of Isabella watching Cecelia through the sheets are there for a reason. The first is placed at the end of the montage of Cecelia’s life at the convent, placed purposefully to stain the happier, more peaceful scenes with the idea that something’s up. The second is there to reinforce that Isabella specifically has beef with Cecelia, make her being watched a pattern rather than one weird shot, and give us some foreshadowing for when Isabella tries to drown her later. Also, a character staring at someone only to disappear after they’ve been noticed is an incredibly common visual trope so that your pov character can suspect they’re being watched, but not have concrete proof. Also, also- Isabella didn’t disappear, she literally just walked behind the sheets. Sometimes people do that.
10:16 this isn’t as big of a thing but I’m pretty sure the bird flying into the window is meant to riff on the motif of birds, specifically Maria’s line in her introduction about Enzo being good at ‘finding broken birds’. I agree it’s a little sloppy tho.
10:30 you’re right that they didn’t have to do this, but having the scene be shot like this adds visual flair and mystique to the whole affair. It’s an ambiance choice.
10:34 if you’re paying attention to the movie, it’s fairly obvious that Isabella did not, in fact, kill herself- at least, not uncoerced. In the scene directly before this one, Enzo- the main bad guy- reassures Cecelia after Isabella tried to drown her, saying ‘he’ll make sure this never happens again’. Less than thirty seconds later she falls off the roof, and in the scene immediately after this, Maria is dragged away and tortured for speaking out about the circumstances of the pregnancy being suspicious. Framing it as a suicide also makes sense for Enzo to do, since he just lied to Cecelia and told her Isabella was ‘losing the battle against mental health issues’. ALSO also the red-masked guys show up just before Isabella falls (in the window), as they tend do before the convent does something awful.
part two, the final part!
10:43 understandable to mis-see this, but Isabella’s face isn’t skinned, it’s just covered in blood.
10:58 the inferred reason is that she just fell of a large building, head first, and doing that tends to do some damage.
11:17 i don’t actually think Isabella does know beforehand. The ‘it should have been me’ scene happens well after Cecelia’s pregnancy is announced to all the nuns, so it’s not like she has some kind of insider knowledge, and being an asshole does not necessarily mean one is in on the Jesus baby scheme. I initially read her line to Cecelia (paraphrased: ‘you can leave now and God will forgive you’) as Isabella disliking Cecelia and viewing her as undedicated to God, and if she views herself as dedicated in contrast it makes sense why she’s be upset that someone she hates got the ‘honor’ of being chosen by god to carry the savior. Like. she is also a christian.
11:57 I suppose I agree with this? Isabella’s death is there for the purpose of having a death, but not just for shock value- it’s meant to be a sign to the audience of shit getting real, as Cecelia sees firsthand how far the convent is willing to go for the sake of the baby, and all her recognizable ‘allies’ (Isabella may be an asshole but she isn’t, like, a monster) are taken from her suddenly. It’s only there ‘just for the audience’ in the same way that all events in all media are there for the audience: it serves to get the audience feeling like Cecelia is unsafe in the convent so the rest of the movie hits harder.
and okay yeah i have more to say, i have a LOT more to say, but I also know that I have a tendency to be unnecessarily blunt when discussing topics i'm passionate about and I don't want to hurt your feelings because I disagree with you, so I'm just gonna leave this as is. but if anyone wants to talk more about immaculate PLEASEEEEEEEEE lmk i wanna talk abt this movie so BADDD
30:28 as a “creative” who struggles in finding inspiration and being genuinely creative, this part shook me to my core. i didn’t even know other people did this. i thought i was crazy for thinking there’s some omnipresent spectator i need to impress, but im glad to hear im not alone. the thought of never creating anything authentic is terrifying because to me, that’s what art is all about. all this to say i’m glad you included this in the video :)
Hey thank you 🌹 I'm glad it was helpful. You're not alone in your creative struggles, trust yourself to go with the flow and alone the way you'll do incredible things!
"they meow out of" 😂😂😂 i love it
I just watched the Tarot movie in the cinema. Hoped it would be a so-bad-its-good-eperience. But holy crap. I was not aware, that it is possible to create something so unoriginal, so free of just one single own idea or even just a frame. One original frame. The movie industry truely is in a dire state.
I think your final point is very… odd. While I understand what you mean, it reminds me of a boy I knew in creative writing class who said he didn’t like reading creative writing (books, poetry, well written recipes etc) because he didn’t want it to influence his “raw voice”. As you can guess, his raw voice was not good because he did not know fundamentals and how to break them or even when his raw voice was being incredibly cliche. Before films there were books, before books there were oral traditions, all of us are influenced whether trying to be or not. To say that inspiration from other works is not something to aspire to but instead be inspired through “life” or “travel” is very odd because those other places you’re traveling to? They’ve already influenced and are influencing works, and are in tern being influenced by the pop culture and art of their region. That life event you had? Chances are many others have had it too and responded to it similarity. I get your point about not wanting to be trapped in, but ignoring how beautiful it is to be inspired by other human’s and the stories they share with us seems a little narrow minded. You cannot separate art and life from one another
@@walnutsrcool i don’t think you do understand what i mean - I’m not saying don’t be inspired or avoid influence full stop. I certainly never said we shouldn’t find inspiration in “humans and the stories they share” or art, on the contrary!
i’m just suggesting that its good as a filmmaker to broaden your inspiration beyond other movies (-:
I appreciate what you say about some people just have the talent and burning desire to create something... Most people would say with practice you can do anything (maybe out of optimism or politeness). Maybe we can be "good" with practice, but I've always believed that only a talented few can be truly "great". Mostly because I wanted to be great, but I couldn't.
Me too my friend 😌
But should creativity really be about being "great"? It's a myth that only some people can be creative - true, only some have natural talent, but for most, talent is not enough to be "great". I think anyone can be creative, but not everyone can or should make a career out of it. And we do need to draw from multiple sources, not just other films, and put things together in novel ways rather than just copying shots and beats we've seen work before.
I got Cecilia because I myself was a victim of forced motherhood
😮
Girl On Film: Have you ever watched a movie?
Me: No
GOF: Oh…ok.
*awkwardly stare at each other*
GOF: OK BYE!
🙋🏼♂️ 😂
this is the type of intellectual dialogue I'm hoping to start 🤡
@@rachellydiab I did love the vid btw! Specifically the ending with all the existential questions about why do we do things. Because we copy things seen in films or because we’re actually living them! I do that a lot. Too often. And it has caused quite a lot of depressive breakdowns throughout my life once I realise that life will just never be as good or easy or well structured or satisfying as in the movies! Take care 👉👈
@@tornapart I'm very similar! Slowly detaching and figuring out to be happy without a lens. Glad you enjoyed 💓
The bit where you discuss trying to write music and deciding you don't have that drive or push to say something like the artists you admire really resonated with me. I've been questioning my authenticity and the right to call myself an artist. But after thinking on what you've said, I do believe I have a fire in me. I have things to say, art that is desperate to leap from my head to the page. Thanks for giving me a life raft in this moment of self doubt
I'm tired of these movies demonising nuns, it's definitely some form of misogyny but I can't really put my finger on why it happens or where it comes from. And then there's also the sexualisation of nun which is really problematic on its own right.
We've had immaculate's story like 3 times in American horror story (murder house, apocalypse, delicate, etc). It felt so tropey when the idea of an antichrist birth can open up so many creative ideas. They did nothing new in immaculate and left so much unexplored.
Edit: omg u mentioned ahs!! 🙏
I must have been even more of an isolated loner at film school than I thought because I didn't know anyone who wanted to make the next Seven.
Only even remember like five times someone even mentioned liking a film or a director, which must be at least 1/2 conversation about film for every short film I've worked on.
Not that I even watch movies.
You're the best film critique I've found on TH-cam. Keep up the amazing work queen ❤
Thank you sweet rabbit (-;
This was really good. I definitely enjoy reviews and in-depth critiques of horror movies especially and I really enjoy girl reviewers because they often have very different nuances to their takes than a lot of guys who review the same films, and I love having that additional perspective, especially for horror movies like this that feature topics so central to the feminine experience. I really enjoyed your critique and breakdown of the film and the filmmaking process as well.
sometimes i get confused with remembering which storyline belongs on first omen and which to immaculate. i rewatched both and i was wondering what happened to a scene, then only realizing it's on the other movie lol
I find the discussion of authenticity so close to home. I’ve tried to reduce my content consumption as i feel it makes me lazy as an artist/designer, how much am I actually inspired and how much do I want to just do something that I think people will like? But then I spiral about if I am actually a creative person or not aghhh
But I agree on all the hits you made at this film. As I was watching it I could see all the shots that were made for turning heads or to scare, I felt like the film lacked any real depth in its perspective, by the end of the film I wonder if Cecilia was actually that religious at all (you’d think she was because she travelled all the way from the US) and it was very evident when I saw it was written and directed by men as to why it lacked depth. It’s a shame because I think it could’ve been really good.
absolutely love the sentiment you shared about authenticity in art in this video, i feel like nobody wants to cause offense so it feels like we're not allowed to have proper critical discussion about this. what you said about the fincher dudes in film school is so true lol and these types of people exist in all areas of art. this is what most ai bros are literally. also i think that saint scene in this movie exists solely because the director or whoever saw sydney in euphoria crying with those roses in the bg and thought that would make a cool scene in a movie like this.
Immaculate is a great example of what happens when you don't truly understand your inspirations. It FEELS like a half digested regurgitation of better works because that's basically... what it is. When you don't understand what makes your inspirations great, you end up tearing off chunks you like to slap in your own work without thought to how it adds to the theme or the narrative, or end up with a superficial recreation of what you were trying to emulate.
It's so clear they love the cult, church, and nun imagery without putting real thought into what it would mean for this character to be a nun. NUNS ARE MARRIED TO GOD! That's like, the point! I'm really glad you point it out, that they just absolutely neuter the tension of their film (her being terrified and skeptical from minute one rather than the mc going from perhaps excited, maybe lukewarm on the idea, to more concerned and mortified). This is why their twist falls so flat.
Cause honestly from your description I actually really LIKE that twist that it was no immaculate conception, but man trying to force gods hand. but the fact that it doesn't change anything makes it FEEL like nothing, which is a HUGE shame. I have such the itch to rewrite this god damn movie myself.
Regardless, understanding your inspirations helps you actually tap into the feeling you want to get, and help your work stop from feeling redundant. Adding to a conversation is a lot easier if you know what people have already said.
I agree, a lot of those elements that they added for suspense and i guess shock factor made little sense with the plot and just felt pointless. It ended up not even feeling scary but just a bad situation to be in.
I enjoyed the video despite not having seen Immaculate and I mostly agreed with your thoughts on authenticity. It certainly gave me some things to reflect on.
I did take issue with the notion at 13:55 "...that we don't all have it in us" because we are all capable of being authentic and creating or doing something well. If I understood your argument correctly, then the issue of derivation, emulation, copying, etc lies more in the creators own lack of understanding as to why a scene was impactful, memorable, etc. However, I think you've equated the lack of understanding with the lack of "it" at least at that timestamp.
The creators are capable of comprehending, reflecting, and understanding themselves, the works they enjoy, and the works they envision. They have the possibility, with work and effort, to make something at least good if not great. (Side note: I think this is where critique is most useful to understanding where a piece of work falls short in doing whatever it was trying to do and where it might have been more successful in that endeavor.) I think these things make that "it"(or at least are contributors), but it's not something necessarily innate which the phrasing implies.
_As a society_, I think we tend to assign talent, greatness after the acclaimed thing was created or done and then falsely assign that greatness or talent to having always been present and not something that had to be planted, tended, and grown because we only saw the end result. And I think the statement at 13:55 is a consequence of that mentality which can easily become "well why do x if I'm not already great" or "if I'm lacking fundamentally". (note: I don't think that the latter is what you meant, but it seems to give way to these kinds of follow-up thoughts)
Following it, you use the example of why you aren't a songwriter and consequently not a singer, despite enjoying singing, because you felt you were only copying, only sounding like the musicians you listened to the most. I understood "it" in this case to be the lack of the ability to express yourself authentically. However, I think the same mistake I attempted to describe above is made. It's not that you can't as much as you haven't yet. You can seek out ways to practice and analyze yourself and the music you enjoy to make music you feel reach your standards of authenticity and whatever else. There are of course other factors that go into stopping something like enjoyment, money, time, responsibility, etc but I don't think an innate lacking is one. And I apologize if I worded that poorly as I don't want to tell you what to do or undermine your agency nor do I know your life at all, so if it had come off as offensive or hostile or otherwise please let me know, so I can try to do better.
I think understanding the medium and how others have used it is critical in being able to tell an authentic or genuine story. I don't think that it is tied to something innately, so much as having the time and willpower to explore yourself and the limits and the potential of the medium to tell that story well.
Loved your whole discussion of authenticity and how, no, not everyone has it in them.
Thank you!
Thank you for this lol was expecting a movie review but left rethinking my relationship with my writing and art and whether i am just copying other things or being inspired by them and may be stuck in my novel because my inspiration scares me, the unknown of it because it is not what others are doing and i feel like i have been told since i was a kid if others are not doing it then its wrong. Write what you know to write whatever you want always pushed and pulled i had really been questioning myself and my art. IFor me my writing and art have always just come out of me, it was not something i looked for actively but poured out the moment it came to me to the point of obsession learning everything i could about the subject then creating a project and mostly completing them(thanks to my 11th grade art teacher showing me this process) and have always been inspired by random things and created my own versions and now i wonder is it really just inspiration or copying? It's hard to tell now. A recent project i did was i got into videos about stained glass and it was mothers day and my mom likes chickens so i used mosaic glass to create my own rainbowy chicken having referenced a ton of different examples from Pinterest and my limited budget and experience forced me to create something new but i wonder if i had had the money would i just have copied it? So many questions now!! Sorry for the long post but you really have me thinking thanks!
I think the reason they don't use someone who wants to have the baby specifically is because they have tried that. Isabel yes, but lots of others before hand. As dumb as it is, they really think the main girl having visions and surviving something by chance as a child is a sign. Also maybe because she is so dead set on staying virginal/ie not ever leaving the convent, they thought her more 'pure'. Yucky mindset, but probably something like that.
i probably should rewatch this video before commenting, especially since the middle part really left me thinking and stung more than a bit at some part of my ego... but anyways. im finishing a script that deals in part with religion and pregnancy horror, and the question of authenticity is one that kept popping up in my head a lot, but couldnt really put a name to. i am not religious (quite the opposite) and not from an abusive family, so this story doesnt come from a personal place. but it reflects my own fears of displacement, abandonment and loss of autonomy... so does that make it authentic? its structure follows that of current possession movies, but most inspiration i took was from old 1960s possession movies and indie dramas and documentaries from my own, forgotten southern country cinema. does that make my work overly derivative? where does the line between authentic and derivative really lie? when it makes narrative sense? when the emotional response from an audience member is the intended one? when the director speaks of its personal relevance? who can say when there is a real creation of a fresh spin on an old idea, especially within genres and subgenres and their built-in structures? these are a few of the questions i kept having while watching this. its been a while since a youtube video really made me think.
as fascinating as this video was, the part i was most interested in was that last idea, of how our own perception of the world is seen as through a screen, like replicating daily tasks through that "cinematic" lens. its one of the reason vlogs used to make me a little nervous, and what the current overuse of social media really upsets me. when does the perfomance end? and how will this shift affect our art? i hope you can try to answer these questions someday!
regardless, i wont stand for blanket slander against dream sequences lol
who cares if a story's events are "things that didnt really happen"? dreams and hallucination can really often, at least in stories because narratives are ideally only including purposeful details, telling about the psyche of the character. thoughts are just as important as, if not moreso than, actions when it comes to character knowledge. and it might be the fact that im biased towards character driven story, but dream sequences and "it was all in your head" stories are so deep into characters when done well.
My Queen please inspire me further
You can't wave away the reason Cecilia was chosen to carry the pregnancy because you deem it 'not that special' or 'not a good enough reason' in your eyes and label her carrying the child a contrivance. Cecilia's 'death' is significant to the priest, because despite his heretical scientific activities he is still deeply religious and truly believes god personally brought Cecilia back to life.
For some reason you seem to ignore how significant the DNA and the return of their saviour would be to people as religious as the convent is, what makes you think they would allow someone to carry the son of their god simply because they lined up for it?
I also don't know where you saw the film confirming its story to be not supernatural, Cecilia's pregnancy came from insemination yes, but it is a holy pregnancy to the covenant and they believe it will be the second coming of the son of god that will result in some sort of biblical event. We know what Cecilia gives birth to is not a 'balloon' as we can hear the baby making strange noises. Not showing the baby was a fine choice, plenty of great horror movies have vague or ambiguous endings, like The Thing or Society, so it feels like a strange thing to mention in a video called 'how not to write a horror movie'.
You had some interesting points in your closing monologue, but talking about owing it to yourself to create earnestly rings a little hollow in a video you admit to be rushed and messy, with points that lack nuance, about a movie you likely picked for this video for its recent release and topical lead actress.
You know you can just explain that you liked the movie and it made logical sense to you - us having differing opinions doesn't need to cause so much bitterness 💐
You NEED to do a review of The First Omen, which I thought was far better than Immaculate! It was just so good!
this was such a good video !! also, I loved the drag race segment. horror and drag race, my two beloveds mixing haha. keep up the great work !!
Mine too hahah, thank you 🌹
the things hanging on the door match your clothes' colors perfectly 💯
i relate to this so much! i just finished art school and it was a miserable experience, and ao im really trying to find my own creative voice and style after having to please my very vindictive teachers for months 😭 amen for authenticity!
I saw both this movie and The First Omen with a friend about a week apart, and we had left both with the same review: "I... Liked it? I think?" But neither of us were about to articulate what we were so hesitant about. I think so many of the points you made here perfectly sum up the things I had subconsciously picked up on but wasn't able to articulate. I think that there are certain things each movie did better than the other, but both have the commonality of weird, tonally dissonant scenes, derivative tropes (Maybe more justifiable for the First Omen, but still), and shocking twists/scares just for the sake of being shocking. Like, I understand that it's horror, but I find it hard to be scared when the scenes feel so shoehorned. It seems like people in these comments liked the First Omen better though, and I would love to hear some perspective on that because I feel about the same way towards both.
The first omen is better received because it’s a prequel not a stand alone film. There had to be an ending that aligned with the omen, it was just how they were going to execute it. The audience needed the child as a red herring to throw you off of who the mother truly was. Without her, there wouldn’t be a solid plot and the mother would be obvious. Something like the nun setting herself on fire maybe wasn’t needed and was more of a homage to the nanny in the original movie however it was enjoyable to see. Imo it wasn’t fully meant to be scary but a bit more a thriller and mystery to further the lore. What happens after the baby is born has always been more important than before which is what makes seeing the prequel a bit more interesting to the us. It was a fun mystery with horror aspects meant to kept you on your toes especially if you never heard of the film franchise before. In immaculate it’s clear they wanted something a bit more scary and bloody. Yet everything in the film felt familiar to other films like the first omen. I felt like the pacing also didn’t match what the film wanted you to feel. In the first omen I could understand the protagonist slowing feeling out of control with each event that happened. Compared to immaculate where the scenes happened but didn’t feel completely full of emotions. I felt nothing after knowing why she was pregnant but despite being aware in the first omen I truly felt the horror of how the protagonist felt finding out who she was. The difference between the birth scene was more intense even with immaculate being more “gory”. I also think showing the child would have helped with the fear factor instead of simply seeing our protagonist and hear a baby crying. Although I would have preferred the mother in the end of the first omen to not live I still think the prequel did a better job overall especially with it being in a franchise.
loved this!! i was so extremely disappointed and dissatisfied when i didn’t get to see the baby!!! even if it’s a healthy baby just show it lol
My highschool film teacher told us that The Lion King was based off of Hamlet and that everything was just a copy of something else.
I love how earnestly you said "hooded losers" at 19:20 😂
Great video. You put my feelings into words!
Oooooo I have a bunch of thoughts:
I think part of what made Hereditary and Midsommar so effective was that they didn't shy away from showing the audience exactly what was freaking out the characters! Like, Midsommar didn't need anything supernatural because there were just truly horrifying things happening in real life. So to not show the baby at the end? Major chickenshit move.
In terms of men writing movies about women's experiences, I felt very similarly when I saw Poor Things! The very surface-level understanding of how a woman might feel about unwanted pregnancy (in this movie) or exploring sexuality (Poor Things) really really came across. And I'm also not saying that men shouldn't try to understand these things! I don't exactly know what the answer is, it seemed like Emma Stone had a lot of creative control in the filming of PT but it still felt really empty, I don't think either of these films were successful in making a statement about these topics.
FINALLY, a recent film that just felt like I was watching other films was Saltburn! I was really disappointed by that movie especially because it was so hyped up, but I really just felt like I was re-treading other stories, and in a way that wasn't as interesting. The twist didn't make sense, it was so heavy handed, and it just made me want to re-watch the Talented Mr Ripley. And the director totally denied that those influences were there!!
I would have to honestly say I almost completely disagree. I thought it was great. The protagonist was great and the delusional antagonist were fun to hate. There’s been so many horror movies done and I think the inspiration that it took from other movies wasn’t overdone. Other horror movies take inspiration all the time. I genuinely enjoyed it so much more than I even expected. You’re free to have your opinions though and I respect it. Horror movies need a plot and the horror genre is no stranger to having an unrealistic idea driving that plot. Without unrealistic aspects, the fantastical and mysterious parts of these movies would go away.
My 16 year old son saw this in theatres and LOVED it. When he was describing the plot I thought… “hmm sounds like (insert most of the movies/series you mentioned).” Which made me realize, most Gen-Z teens haven’t seen any of those films. So for him and his friends, this was ground breaking film making. Same can be said for “Anyone but You,” who his friends also loved. Again, realized they haven’t really watched any 90’s/20’s romcoms. Interesting times we’ve crawled into 😂
most gen z are old enough to watch those movies and even my 13 year old gen z brother has seen that stuff. i assume you don’t show your kid movies or he doesn’t have older siblings who could but it’s not all gen z.
@@aubergine1086 not sure how to respond to this, as the point I was making is that the majority of youth engaging with modern films aren’t likely to have seen the bulk of content these newer flicks have drawn “inspiration” from and because of that its interesting to see their response to said media, be that horror or rom-com. The same can be said about fashion and music. Culture seems to repeat itself and it’s interesting to be on the ladder side of that
I saw Immaculate a few months after watching The First Omen and some time after watcing both I honestly mix up both of them in my memory because of how similar they are
It’s interesting seeing someone who has a poor view of immaculate, I thought it was a solid film and so did everyone else I know who saw it, it’s always refreshing to see someone discuss why they didn’t like something then just agree with the group. I may disagree but you raise some good points
@@Ganchanzilla Hey thank you for the open minded view of things (-: