I'm less unhappy about the UB in Standard announcement (as an occasional Standard player) than I am about the shift to 50% of sets being UB, which I feel like wasn't explicitly touched on here. Like other people in the comments are saying, I like Magic and the worlds and characters of Magic, so seeing that focus split is a bummer. But also considering how part of the announcement seemed to come off with how they're positioning "Magic IP" versus UB, it feels like this is a move that leads to diluting the strength and recognition of Magic as an IP rather than growing it. Which is especially weird after seeing Foundations at the PPR this weekend and how it seems to be such a love letter to what makes Magic Magic, like Graham's point about Llanowar Elves.
Hasbro has shown repeatedly that they don't care about their IPs short of how much money they can squeeze out of them short term. They've pushed WotC to squeeze both D&D and MtG for as much as they can get out of it, and to hell with the long term consequences.
I totally agree. Also: I enjoyed Bloomburrow. It was super cute, and you could say it had Redwall vibes. You know what I’m glad they didn’t do? Somehow get the rights to make a Magic set out of the actual Redwall books. It’s good that we have Mabel, Cruelclaw, and Finneas and not Martin, Badrang, and Basil. As Maro always says, the heart of Magic is the color pie; this means that the worlds have a certain structure and metaphysics to them, so it seems unsatisfying to shoehorn things from outside of Magic into that.
Maro said on his tumblr that this won‘t be the standard (pun intended) going forward. So this a one time thing to have this much UB in a year. Which makes this more weird to me, if they don‘t want to continue with that why force it so much?
As someone who is generally fine with UB (I can enjoy the ones I like and ignore the ones I don't care about), I believe the biggest problem with the changes is the move to a 50/50 split between Universes Beyond and Universes Within. I truly think that if the announcement was a 5/1 or even 4/2 split it would've gone down way easier, even if not without groaning and resistance. It's just a huge change to drop out of the blue, and as someone who loves the MTG worlds and story I'm sad to get less of it. But at the end of the day my stance is still the same as it was before this change: There is too much product. Whether within or beyond we are just bombarded by announcements that don't allow us to enjoy anything for long enough before having to move on to the next thing. It already felt like that, and now we have SIX STANDARD SETS coming next year! It's ridiculous and unsustainable even without thinking about how half of them aren't set in the Magic universe.
My biggest problem with Universes Beyond in general is they’re fundamentally looking backwards. It’s nostalgia bait. With Magic’s own worlds, even in the most trope-y, most top-down worlds, there’s still innovation on the tropes and concepts. I’m way more excited for Edge of Eternities than a hypothetical Star Wars universes beyond, and I’m the biggest Star Wars fan out there. My biggest problem with 2025 Universes Beyond in particular is that they pushed Return to Lorwyn to 2026. They literally replaced it on the schedule with an _Unannounced_ Universes Beyond.
Star Wars is such a good comparison for this too because Star Wars is currently having a giant battle between nostalgia and new ideas. And even though the nostalgia stuff seems to be losing, some people are also rallying against the new stuff regardless of its quality. Especially anything that challenges what Star Wars is like The Acolyte.
Yeah. You can't tell a new story with Universes Beyond, only look back at old ones. People rightfully have complaints about some of the directions magic story has taken over the years, but Vorthos is one of the big player profiles for a reason.
I mean return to lorwyn in your example is also a nostalgia bait set, frankly I'd argue marvel or final fantasy in magic is more "new" than any "return to" set will ever be.
I really hope I'm not the only one to think that "the UB Standard" was going to talk about the Blue & Black Demon Deck that won the recent Pro Tour. The way the title was shown I figured it would be mostly foundations with a Wheeler Rant at the end about the deck, but my bag of popcorn still tasted good with the Universes Beyond Conversation!
Foundations is a product that should have existed 10+ years ago, and I'm really glad it exists now. Really not looking forward to the monoblack control deck in standard featuring Sephiroth and Venom
My biggest gripe with UB is the fact it used to be "optional" to interact with. Example "i play standard not modern who cares about these 40k cards" now if you play comp in any capacity and if "uncle Ben is the new Sheoldred" it's gonna take the wind out of my sails a bit since competitive magic is a love of mine. Power level isn't my concern in tired of being fed advertisements when i don't want it now i have to deal with it for all of eternity The second gripe is this is now a standard legal set a month for 6 months. That's a shit ton of sets that require "necessary" engagement in a competitive capacity. Checking rares and mythics or the occasional uncommon standout to slot into now. Every format versus that of modern in LoTR case or vintage legacy commander in that of 40k and doctor who
I just want to know how six standard sets a year is supposed to encourage players to get in to standard. It’s way too much to keep up with for the average player
@@daveclarke1990 You have to know this isn't the same thing. Commander is a non-rotating format that they sell preconstructed decks for. You don't have to keep up with anything to keep playing commander other than the banlist.
This is why they made foundations. It's supposed to just give you all the best staples for your deck archetype so that you're only shuffling in and out a handful of cards each set, and missing a set won't render your deck completely noncompetitive.
@@daveclarke1990 It's not the card pool, it's the treadmill. When I buy cards for Commander, they stay useful indefinitely. You have to constantly rebuy your Standard deck. (Which I suspect is both the reason why Commander became more popular *and* why WotC wants Standard to return to being the "premiere format" - Standard players are way more profitable.)
I love Cameron's insight and generally agree with his approach to the Spiderman and other UBey sets. However, the problem is that you no longer can make this decision if you want to play constructed sanctioned formats (not even necessarily on a highly competitive level), and that saddens me, especially as former Modern enthusiast and someone who liked to occasionally tip toes in Standard play.
I stand by what y'all (Kathleen or Cameron) so eloquently said before: I don't want the number of Universes Beyond to exceed the number of Universes Within. Also "Universe Within" would be a good Blue Sorcery
1:01:30 Counterpoint. The increase in the amount of product released, particularly moving up to 6 full standard sets a year (all probably paired with their own commander product), strains the resources and time of design teams. This may not lead to intentional power creep, but things slipping through the cracks. This is how Nadu was released in the form that it was. While there may not be a directive to powercreep UB cards, the product bloat that Magic has experienced (with UB being a symptom and cause to), taxes what design can feasibly test and account for.
While I wholeheartedly agree that 6 full sets is too much, that has also been around the same output as the past few years... And actually less than 2024! 2024: 4 standard sets, MH3, Foundations, Foundations Jumpstart, Mystery Booster 2, Ravnica Remastered, Fallout Commander Decks, Ravnica Clue, Assassin's Creed, and The Big Score. 2023: 4 standard sets, Aftermath, LotR, Dominatria Remastered, Dr. Who Commander Decks 2022: 4 standard sets, Baldur's Gate, Unfinity, Warhammer commander decks, Jumpstart 2022. Do I wish the relentless sets would slow down? Yes! But is 2025 going to be a ramp up in the amount of cards being made? Probably not!
46:10 There actually is a MacGuffin that they showed some of the card of. It's called The Aetherspark, and it's a Legendary Artifact Planeswalker - Equipment. Seems to be an artificial spark that Ghirapur is offering up as a prize in the race. Chandra is in the race to get it for Nissa.
I've been waiting for the "this card" change for years. The scenario Wheeler described (copy of Figure of Destiny example) is the #1 point of confusion I run into with newer players. I do think legendary creatures should follow the same rule though. I think I like the combat change? Mostly from a Limited player perspective, I think it will be largely an improvement.
Coming in from Yugioh my first thought when I read a magic creature was "Ok, so this ability triggers whenever a creature with this name is played right? Otherwise why would they write it like that?"
As someone who does play standard, i am in fact now obligated to pay attention to UB sets which i don't particularly like. That by itself is truly, honestly, probably fine. I don't like it but if it gets more players to play the format i like then that's good. What i cannot stand and am fucking pissed about is that we have one less in universe set a year going forward. I hate that giving other people the magic they want comes at the expense of the magic i want.
On the other hand, they’ll probably be giving 4 magic sets that aren’t universes beyond, which is probably not a lot less than they used to before universes beyond started.
@beningram1811 they've explicitly stated that going forward there will be 3 universes beyond sets a year and 3 standard universes within sets a year. We used to get 4 universes within standard sets a year so that's certainly a decrease
@ so we get Innistrad remastered, Tarkir, Aetherdrift, Edge of Infinity (that’s four) by August. And Final Fantasy, Spider-Man, and the unknown one are the Universes beyond. And then no more Magic?
@beningram1811 innistrad remastered isn't a standard set. We only get 3 standard legal universes within sets next year, and once again I will say THEY EXPLICITLY SAID this is the pattern going forward. We are getting one less standard legal magic ip set a year.
I was previously someone who was just going "wow all this crossover stuff is weird, I'm glad I don't get affected by it as primarily a standard player on arena". Hearing that I won't be able to do that anymore is definitely getting me to consider making the magic break balatro started me on more permanent. If I wanted to see Planeswalkers and Spider-Man together I'd read fanfic of it (or I would if anyone actually wrote MTG crossovers). I have zero interest in corporate marketing content like this; there's a reason I don't really watch movies or TV anymore and it's because the recycling of culture into remakes and reimaginings just makes me tired.
To take the engagement bait, my pick for the least likely franchise for a UB crossover with Magic would probably be Kamen Rider. It’s incredibly niche in NA and Europe and there’s been friction between Hasbro and Toei with how the Power Rangers/Super Sentai rights are being used by Hasbro. But on the other hand, it’s HUGE in Japan and a bunch of other countries, it has so much design space that could be used, and if Toei ever wants to try and push Kamen Rider to a primarily English speaking audience then Magic would be perfect advertisement. My 2nd option would be Yugioh, but I don’t think I need to explain that one.
I've never really been able to put words to my emotions very well, so expressing the feelings I have about UB and Wizards' general attitude towards magic's story is kinda difficult. I think overall both Sam from Rhystic Studies and Prof with their respective pieces on the topic encapsulate my thoughts fairly well, so if you want a general idea of how I feel, those two are a good metric, but I will try to express myself a bit in the ways that I differ. I didn't mind the concept of Universes Beyond when it began. When it was just secret lairs with street fighter characters on them and such, that was fine. When it was a single premium set with LotR, I was wary, but willing to be convinced since I felt that LotR has a place to stand amongst magic as *the* foundational piece of western fantasy that most (not all, but most) western fantasy draws some of its lineage to. Then they announced there would be multiple Marvel sets, and the announcement trailer for that collaboration made no effort to include Magic as something to be excited about, electing instead only to make a shitty pun about the name, and that was when I knew we were heading for much worse waters. Now we're here, and half (or more, depending on how you count stuff like the transformers cards, the assassins creed thing, and secret lairs) of Magic is no longer Magic. As someone that really really loves magic's setting, characters, and story, it breaks my heart to see both Wizards and my fellow players tell me that the parts of magic I find the most special are not as important to them as seeing Captain America on a magic card. The strong ludonarrative harmony engendered by the flexibility and creative restrictions of its game design are apparently better spent showing off how good Spider-man is at doing whatever a spider can than on Magic's own characters and worlds. At first it made me angry, but now it just makes me sad. At the very least, I would have liked if these crossovers had gone both ways, but a large part of how distressing UB is, is that any time we get something UB, that's a guarantee that there will be absolutely no original magic content, nothing to make fans of *magic* excited about it, or to make people who don't know magic be excited about its universe. Imagine if Games Workshop had made killteams of the guilds, or if Capcom had released costumes of magic characters in Street Fighter. I'm still vaguely holding out hope that FFXIV announces an MTG crossover event just to have a sign that somebody, somewhere, cared about promoting and sharing the world I love so much with other people. I'll probably still play magic. I might even play with the FF cards, since FF is one the few series that means as much to me as magic does and its not like anything I do will make UB stop anyway. Foundations is the exact kind of set and product I as a member of the RTR/Theros/Khans generation (hi Wheeler, thanks for calling me out lol) have been asking for for years. But I am probably going to take a substantial step back from magic. Maybe I'll find enough people interested in playing a version of standard that reduces or cuts down on what UB is allowed, or is interested in playing mini formats of just "Foundations + whatever set is most current" just to keep the vibe from getting too weird. Sorry for rambling so much, and thank you all at LRR for being such kind people and wonderful faces fir the community. Have a good one.
Part of the joy of Magic's own worlds is that they can play with and overlap each other, sharing characters and creature types and in-jokes. UB isn't 'bringing Final Fantasy into Magic', it's creating a self-enclosed set which cannot reference anything else in Magic and no other Magic set can ever reference again. It feels weird that half of all sets going forward are going to be that awkward guy at the party who doesn't know anyone else there.
When Wheeler started explaining the types of players, I was sitting here waiting to see which category I fell under and then he immediately called me out hardcore. I literally did start with Khans/Theros/Magic Origins and my magic "career" is EXACTLY the way Wheeler described it
One of Wheeler's comments got me thinking. UB products that are more fantasy/magic-leaning would likely be easier to swallow for players, and even easier to reskin. There are quite a few mainstream cartoons that they could use; Adventure Time, Amphibia, and to a slightly lesser extent, Steven Universe.
I'm kinda annoyed by the fact that UB is going to be standard legal, because this means that all future UB releases will be full editions, like LOTR, instead of W40k, Fallout or Dr. Who, that allowed you to get all precons and have the whole collection for "cheap". Being a fan of Final Fantasy and being hyped about the set for a while now, I can only hope it won't be as expensive, but time will tell...
Lots of good thoughts and opinions on this episode of TTC - have definitely been waiting for it since all the news dropped! In the panel where they talked about Aetherdrift they did say specifically that it was a race for a prize - that prize being the Aetherspark, an artificial planeswalker spark! Chandra is racing to win it for Nissa which I think is very cute and fun, but I am deeply curious how and why this whole thing is going to be set-up in universe lol.
In response to the continued Fortniteification of MtG I’ll be establishing play wherever I can that excludes all UB cards and content categorically and I’ll only expand my collection with high quality proxies. Even if it’s just my house. We’ve crossed the thermocline of trust to where enough of the products aren’t for me that MtG going forward isn’t for me.
Look you can feel what you want about the SpongeBob Secret Lair but I for one and looking forward to Graham introing a podcast as 'Brodcasting live from A Pineapple Under the Sea on the plane of Bikini Bottom"
Between 3 year rotation, Foundations being a very strong base level and there being 6 standard sets per year.. standard IS going to be a significantly more powerful format. It is going to look a lot more like extended than what standard has traditionally been. I do agree with Graham that UB in itself is not going to be the catalyst for power creep.. its just going to be because there will be WAY more cards in the card pool, literally thousands more than we are used to.
Something worth noting about the sets of 2025: Mark just said today on his Tumblr that they did, in fact, reveal everything that's going to come out next year (besides the unannounced UB set, of course). So no, you don't have to worry about two or three extra sets on top of the ones revealed. This also means that 2025 will have two sets less than 2024, so props for that, I guess?
I don't care that UUB is going to be sweet, I am upset that they are taking the set I was most excited about for 2025 and delaying it for "trust us it's good" I would be more forgiving if I knew what it was. They should have either kept Lorwyn or announced the UUB.
I mean I'm actively choosing to not buy the marvel secret lair, but I genuinely feel like it doesn't matter, they are still going to make money on it and make more products that are 40$ for 5 cards. I feel like wizards (the company not the designers) do not view me as a customer, they view me as a wallet that they want to empty. There are so many sets and powercreep is so severe that I'm less and less enthusiastic about each set.
The biggest thing for me goes back to what Kathleen said in a previous episode Not verbatim quote "I don't want universes beyond to become more than universes within" And with secret lairs, we're there. From now on there will be more Universes Beyond than Universes Within And it's been said frequently "this product is not for you, and that's okay", but now slightly less than half of magic sets, a game that WAS for me, is no longer for me. And that's a bummer to me. I'm excited for all the players who are irl pogging about each of the sets, but I wish we were pogging together instead of only some of us
I keep thinking of the skit seth made where someone plays all the universes beyond cards in a single deck, has an attraction deck, etc. It's not even a skit anymore. That's just what playing looks like. And it's not even a thing of "Oh, are you picking the within art or the beyond art?" because there's no within art. I am building a discard artifact deck and I am staring at Veronica dissident scribe thinking to myself "this card is too good not to play, but she is universes beyond. Why is it in this deck?" I can't think of an archetype of deck be it commander or something else, where you can't at least consider the beyond cards. Like... Watching north 100 showdown and seeing alpha deathclaws and warhammer robots smashing down on lanowar elves... It's only fun so many times. Magic the gathering has the become the fortnite of card games, and I don't like it
Yeah, when 'this product is not for you' crosses over into dangerously close to/probably over half of released product, it becomes 'this game isn't for you' and that... that sucks.
To answer Graham's question: There is no property I would be surprised for Magic to crossover with. That's what selling out is, it's becoming available to everyone. Also hate Wheeler's non-answer of "Well you just don't have to interact with or buy these cards. You don't even need to play against them." If you enjoy playing Pioneer and Standard, you absolutely will need to buy UB product to stay competitive. As interesting as Foundations is, the UB announcement killed any interest I have in continuing to play those formats.
@@tannermattingly4462 I would argue that The One Ring's stranglehold on more powerful formats makes them similarly unplayable without running UB. Pauper is the least affected currently by LotR, but even that is super prevalent with the landcyclers and lembas. But I think Wheeler is directing that answer squarely at those who only play Commander and he is right there. You never *have* to play anything in Commander unless you are building a deck that only a UB legend could fill the mechanical niche necessary for a commander of that strategy (ex. They make a universes beyond UBG legendary merfolk)
Unlikely but possible Secret Lairs: 1. Stardew Valley - Food generating cards. 2. Gummi Bears - Bears and bounce spells. 3. Riverdale - All Planeswalkers drawn to be in Highschool and the secret card is Murder. 4. Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader - all spells with no more than 2 syllable words on the card. 5. You Can’t Say That On Television - all slimes and oozes with Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar as Barth for the secret card.
BG3 came out in early access like 4 years before the full release and all of the main characters featured in the MTG crossover (Astarion, Shadowheart etc) are introduced in the first 20 minutes that was available since day 1.
As a maily limited player I am also affected. Since I don't like UB for many reasons, there are just less sets for me. But as Cameron pointed out, I have other hobbies, but I'm afraid that if less and less sets are for me, I play less and eventually loose touch.
I mean, 4 draftable sets a year (if you include Innistrad remastered) is still plenty. That's how I plan to still engage with the game post-FF launching and I stop playing constructed.
Honestly, what I'm the most bummed about is that it seems that the days of cool world building by WotC are over. Bloomburrow seemed kind of cool, but other than that, it just seems that even the original sets are more "Magic characters but as cowboys/racers/astronauts/..." instead of actual interesting worlds to explore. Ixalan may have been the pirate set, but there was much more to it to discover. Original Tarkir was probably one of my favorite sets ever and even this return doesn't really excite me from the announcement. Seems like they try to ignore the whole story and go back to the clans that everyone loved, but also dragons. But maybe I am just too pessimistic at this time and they can actually pull it off.
MTG Universes Beyond: Dyson Products. It features the animal vacuum cleaner, a 3/3 for 3, with suck gives +1-1 blow -1+1, and also tutors for a specific artifact called "lost earring"
Okay, now I need to get a copy of the Gunky Runner for my cube. I have both of the gunk slug cards in my cube, and I have custom Gunk tokens sleeved up, ready to shuffle in.
I think what wheeler said is exactly why these sets work You’re all dead to advertisements you’d rather give excuses to wotc and say that it doesn’t matter or just do something else because you can’t be bothered to complain you just sink into the feeling of being advertised to and let it be
What i've been saying is that the UB well is going to dry up, sooner the more they make. There's only so many slam dunks, and eventually they'll run out of them and they'll either slow their roll or release a flop. I give it a couple of years of full blast before that happens.
Nintendo is the most outside thing that I could still see someone at Wizard's trying to do. Also, not having Magic story for half a year blows. It blows massive chunks. They're clearly trying to do something with Loot, given that they gave Thunder Junction a whole separate rare sheet so they make sure people knew who he was, Bloomburrow showed Ral trying to find Jace, and Jace then showing up in Duskmourn, plus he's got a card in Foundations, and now I don't know if we're ever going to hear about what his whole deal is before anyone ceases to care.
The problem with UB standard sets is the space of reprints without creating a new sudo reserved list. WotC could have reprinted Sheoldred or Fable of the Mirrorbreaker in CMM or MH3. They didn´t do it, because they want to milk their cow to sell packs later, but they could have done it. Many other cards from W40k or LotR aren´t as easy as reprintable, because they need a full UW version with a new cardname or creaturetype (Tyranid, Necron), that isn´t protected by a non WotC IP. WotC already stopped the UW programm for the SLD exclusive printings and has never reprinted a single one of the mechanical unique cards from the UB commander decks. Now we are ramping up from around 50-60 new cards per year from SLD and commander precons, to three times 50-60 cards per year, just from the standard sets. Yes most of the cards will never have much money value, because they´re too bad to see play in any format, but the cards that see play in Modern, Pioneer, Legacy or Commander will ramp through the roof, maybe even above some of the "cheaper" reserved list cards. If you play mostly or only commander in untrusted pods with randoms over Discord/Spelltable, you can´t even avoid them at all.
Having resigned myself to UB existing and being legal and realizing I can either complain and annoy everyone or just tolerate it and play magic and not be insufferable while remaining annoyed in my head, honestly, a Cosmere UB set would be so cool, especially since the author is a huge MTG fan, wrote one of the Magic novels back in the day, and the Cosmere sort of operates a big like the multiverse, with it's own version of a sort of blind eternities and very special people having the ability to traverse it to get to other worlds while certain people aware of those other worlds are seeking to find a way to travel between them.
the weird line in the sand my brain has drawn is that fantasy UB is fine, magic does fantasy sci-fi UB is okay, magic touches sci-fi stuff occasionally anything else, like superheroes? brain no like. too different
Yeah the problem is that the line is different for everyone. But if they continue to do more and more UB, they're just going to cross the line for more and more people. The Final Fantasy fans don't want to play with Spider-man. The Lord of the Rings fans don't want to play with Assassins Creed. The Star Wars fans don't want to play with Star Trek.
For me its the inescapability of UniB now. Commander was one thing, thats where people should be able to play with the cards that make up their special deck. But it being in all formats everywhere, means i cant NOT play with it essentially, and i just dont like ads enough to play with them all the time
My small opinion on things: 1. I dont like that there no longer is a constructed format in which I can avoid UB. I am competitive, but I still dont wanna see a Spiderman card at standard fnm. 2. I do NOT care how excited the lead of the UUB set is and how great its supposed to be I am disgusted by the treatment of their own IP in favor of another ad for sth else. But I suppose its in line with how wotc has treated Lorwyn ever since its original release. 3. Most out there still technically doable SL crossover? Phineas and Ferb
Foundations just makes me happy. The only thing that would've made me happier with this love letter to the game would be actually calling their bundles Fat Packs again and including a reprinting of one of the old novels in there. So many cards that bring back happy feels, both from when I played as a kid from Mirage-ish to after Mirrodin rotated out, as well as when I returned to the game around WAR. Plus, I'd been calling for years that they needed this, a legit core set that was rotation proof, either because they just reprinted it every couple years or because it was declared permanently legal. Sets a floor for standard decks and decreases the financial hit of rotation. I recently got a friend into Magic, and while she enjoyed it, trying to now build her own decks is a challenge, because lack of cards. I don't see them doing this, but, it would be super cool if Arena just gave all new accounts created after Foundations releases a playset of all commons and uncommons from Foundations, and maybe 1 of each rare, just to give new players a less daunting starting point for their collection.
The biggest thing I noticed with the change to combat rules is that a whole lot of people actually didn't know there was a place to respond between "Order blockers" and "Damage." Hell, I'm one of those people who has been playing since Return to Ravnica (obviously not competitively) and I didn't really think about that. I guess I always assumed choosing the order of blockers was just the first part of applying the damage.
Your concerns about the MSRP pretty well match mine. I've continued to support my LGS because the owner doesn't cave to external pressure to increase prices. My hope is that with this change his distributors won't try to pass the buck off on him.
I find it absolutely baffling that I'm being told, "It's weird you're so upset about this; you must not have much of a life outside of this hobby," by a man who is so deeply embedded into the same hobby that one of the designers custom-made a card for him.
You and others have read it like that and I get that this hurts. But I think that's not what he meant. I first read it as something along the lines of: „Go outside, go touch grass. Have more than one thing that fulfills you.“ Which is not necessarily bad advice. But I think it also wasn't meant like that. I think it rather was an expression of his own alienation from MTG by the fortnite-ification of MTG, and that he is thus glad he has other things in his life that make him happy.
As a big Final Fantasy fan I am super excited to collect some cards of my favourite characters and moments with gorgeous art, maybe buy a commander deck or two, but I also don't care if those cards are legal in any format especially competitive ones and would prefer if they were not. Standard going from 4 to 6 sets a year with 3 UB is just so much and I hope they backtrack on it at some point. The only benefit to their legality for me that I can think of is that maybe the sales generated by standard will allow UB to worry less about being so powerful they need to slot into older formats like Modern but I have my doubts sadly.
On the topic of the damage assignment rule - if the rule causes people to not try to play combat tricks on defense to "get" the attacking player, it wil in general make people better players
Was in group 3. Was introduced by my ex in Khans. But really didn’t click for a couple more sets. First draft wasn’t until Kaladesh. First loved card is Angel of Invention.
The change to how damage and blockers work now kinda makes sense because it makes Combat Tricks more favorable for offense than defense which might lead to faster games and if that's the case I think it's fine?
I had honestly hoped for a little bit more UB Sturm und Drang, although everyones reactions are sensible & what I would have guessed. Aside from stuff other folks are already mentioning in terms of getting less cannon Magic, increased product churn, etc, I did want to note that some Magic players are just Arena players because that is what accessible or affordable for them, and recourse for an Arena player unhappy with this news is basically non-existent short of playing other games. I do think it's kind of sad that this is going to be the thing that ends Magic for a lot of those players, and that's unlikely to matter given the raw numbers UB does.
my legitimate guesses for the unannounced UB set is either From Software/Elden Ring/Dark Souls, Star Trek or Avatar: The Last Airbender. The last two are based on the leaked test proof Spock card and the fact that Hasbro clearly has a very good relationship with Paramount. And also how much an A:TLA set would excite me
ub in standard is going to be annoying, but i’m sure i’ll grow to accept it. i was heartbroken when i heard that not only would 50% of sets going forward be ub, but lorwyn was pushed back because of ub. it feels like mtg is losing so much of its identity beyond just the rule set and is just a shell for other franchises to come and advertise within
So, to clarify, the 2025 road map is apparently everything for 2025, at least as far as proper product releases go. Innistrad Remastered and the six sets shown will be everything. The final set is gonna be whatever UUB is.
Back when Elvish Mystic showed up in M10, alongside Runeclaw Bear, the stated reason for both was that they wanted a singular creature, because how many elves does it take to add up to a 1/1, or how many bears for a 2/2?
Honestly these were more likely than Spongebob when it came to fitting with magic's aesthetics. Once they announced Spongebob,l though, you knew it was all just in it for the money. Because, despite Spongebob's creators wishes, Spongebob is always there to be shoveled out at the lowest dollar. And unfortunately for Muppet fans, Disney seems pretty unwilling to do anything with them.
Where do I fall on wheelers scale, starting in New Phyrexia/ Innistrad era? 🤔 I don’t consider that “old school” but it’s pretty significantly different from Tarkir era
I'm a little scared of having three UB sets in a year in standard, but I am glad to see them be in standard. Maybe in another timeline these could have been more spaced out and been the "new player" product that core sets functioned as for so long without the baggage of heavy reprints and simpler card design.
I pray that we get and EDSC where yall get to play the runners as your commander... you could do w rolls each to see who gets what runner and then build around them!!!!!!
I used to play a ton of Standard on Arena, really it was my only format and the only way I played MTG. One of the things I liked about standard was how much of a meta shakeup Rotation was when it came around every year. If you hated playing against a card or ddck eventually it would go away. When they announced they werent going to rotate for a year it basically killed my interest in the format and now with Foundations being practically evergreen it feels like Standard will just get even more stale, with each expansion adding at most a card or two to every already established top deck. I've basically stopped playing Magic all together and I cant say I miss it too much when I think about how long I would have to play against something like the next Embercleave to get released.
If UUB were a Sailor Moon set I would Snap-brew a Tuxedo Mask commander deck, and never play to win while playing it. My only goal would be to swoop in and assist the player in the most trouble.
I'm hoping for an orphan black secret lair. Doesn't have to be new cards, they can all just be clone effects. Helena as evil twin would be so flavorful!
I feel the same way about Standard UB as Graham; understanding of why people are upset, apprehensive as to what it will be like, excited about Final Fantasy, but mostly, really annoyed that they pushed back Lorwyn to make room for another UB set. I don't like the 50/50 split of sets; if it were 4/2, I would be much more on board with it, since that would mean no Magic IP sets were sacrificed at the Urborg Cabal altar of Universes Beyelzenlok. That opinion will change, though, if it's a one-time exception to the rule and the resulting set is a slam-dunk grand slam 80 yard field goal half-court nothing-but-net such as Elder Scrolls, Soulsborne/Elden Ring, Hollow Knight: Silksong, Dune, Earthsea, Studio Ghibli, Redwall, Eragon, Legend of Zelda, or Berserk.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm less unhappy about the UB in Standard announcement (as an occasional Standard player) than I am about the shift to 50% of sets being UB, which I feel like wasn't explicitly touched on here.
Like other people in the comments are saying, I like Magic and the worlds and characters of Magic, so seeing that focus split is a bummer. But also considering how part of the announcement seemed to come off with how they're positioning "Magic IP" versus UB, it feels like this is a move that leads to diluting the strength and recognition of Magic as an IP rather than growing it. Which is especially weird after seeing Foundations at the PPR this weekend and how it seems to be such a love letter to what makes Magic Magic, like Graham's point about Llanowar Elves.
Hasbro has shown repeatedly that they don't care about their IPs short of how much money they can squeeze out of them short term. They've pushed WotC to squeeze both D&D and MtG for as much as they can get out of it, and to hell with the long term consequences.
I totally agree.
Also: I enjoyed Bloomburrow. It was super cute, and you could say it had Redwall vibes. You know what I’m glad they didn’t do? Somehow get the rights to make a Magic set out of the actual Redwall books. It’s good that we have Mabel, Cruelclaw, and Finneas and not Martin, Badrang, and Basil. As Maro always says, the heart of Magic is the color pie; this means that the worlds have a certain structure and metaphysics to them, so it seems unsatisfying to shoehorn things from outside of Magic into that.
@piccolomaniac Yeah! Hard agree, I loved Bloomburrow.
Maro said on his tumblr that this won‘t be the standard (pun intended) going forward. So this a one time thing to have this much UB in a year. Which makes this more weird to me, if they don‘t want to continue with that why force it so much?
@@DerUser94With all due respect it's hard to trust anything Maro says especially when it comes to UB specifically
As someone who is generally fine with UB (I can enjoy the ones I like and ignore the ones I don't care about), I believe the biggest problem with the changes is the move to a 50/50 split between Universes Beyond and Universes Within. I truly think that if the announcement was a 5/1 or even 4/2 split it would've gone down way easier, even if not without groaning and resistance. It's just a huge change to drop out of the blue, and as someone who loves the MTG worlds and story I'm sad to get less of it.
But at the end of the day my stance is still the same as it was before this change: There is too much product. Whether within or beyond we are just bombarded by announcements that don't allow us to enjoy anything for long enough before having to move on to the next thing. It already felt like that, and now we have SIX STANDARD SETS coming next year! It's ridiculous and unsustainable even without thinking about how half of them aren't set in the Magic universe.
I adore that gunky runner story. What a hero.
Thank you Graham. It’s great to be Overrun.
You should totally build commander decks with your runner cards and play them in a video
My biggest problem with Universes Beyond in general is they’re fundamentally looking backwards. It’s nostalgia bait. With Magic’s own worlds, even in the most trope-y, most top-down worlds, there’s still innovation on the tropes and concepts. I’m way more excited for Edge of Eternities than a hypothetical Star Wars universes beyond, and I’m the biggest Star Wars fan out there.
My biggest problem with 2025 Universes Beyond in particular is that they pushed Return to Lorwyn to 2026. They literally replaced it on the schedule with an _Unannounced_ Universes Beyond.
Star Wars is such a good comparison for this too because Star Wars is currently having a giant battle between nostalgia and new ideas. And even though the nostalgia stuff seems to be losing, some people are also rallying against the new stuff regardless of its quality. Especially anything that challenges what Star Wars is like The Acolyte.
Yeah. You can't tell a new story with Universes Beyond, only look back at old ones. People rightfully have complaints about some of the directions magic story has taken over the years, but Vorthos is one of the big player profiles for a reason.
@@wavesofbabies Except the acolyte is an objective bad show, c'mon now
I mean return to lorwyn in your example is also a nostalgia bait set, frankly I'd argue marvel or final fantasy in magic is more "new" than any "return to" set will ever be.
@@Thavleifrim A marvel crossover set can't tell a new story. A return to Lorwyn can. Look at how great Neon Dynasty was.
Universes Beyond : The Passion of the Christ
He's in the public domain! He has a huge fanbase! Win-Win for papa Hasbro!
this falls squarely into the "never gonna happen in a million years" box
@@Silas_MN so was spongebob
Well, Bible Battle was a mtg rip off
UB: VeggieTales
(The one that might be a banger: UB Secret of NIMH.)
I really hope I'm not the only one to think that "the UB Standard" was going to talk about the Blue & Black Demon Deck that won the recent Pro Tour. The way the title was shown I figured it would be mostly foundations with a Wheeler Rant at the end about the deck, but my bag of popcorn still tasted good with the Universes Beyond Conversation!
I was right with you.
Didn't happen to me this time but I've made the UB=Blue Black mistake many many times
Foundations is a product that should have existed 10+ years ago, and I'm really glad it exists now.
Really not looking forward to the monoblack control deck in standard featuring Sephiroth and Venom
They did have it 10 years ago, it was called core set 2014, and it was awesome
@@Quamsiand it was in standard for a year
Aw, you don't need to worry about that! I'm pretty sure Sephiroth is gonna be black/white!
I like silly flavor
@@ryanbarham8464 I believe Friday Nights Alex would have something to say about color splashing and monocolor decks not being mutually exclusive
My biggest gripe with UB is the fact it used to be "optional" to interact with. Example "i play standard not modern who cares about these 40k cards" now if you play comp in any capacity and if "uncle Ben is the new Sheoldred" it's gonna take the wind out of my sails a bit since competitive magic is a love of mine. Power level isn't my concern in tired of being fed advertisements when i don't want it now i have to deal with it for all of eternity
The second gripe is this is now a standard legal set a month for 6 months. That's a shit ton of sets that require "necessary" engagement in a competitive capacity. Checking rares and mythics or the occasional uncommon standout to slot into now. Every format versus that of modern in LoTR case or vintage legacy commander in that of 40k and doctor who
I just want to know how six standard sets a year is supposed to encourage players to get in to standard. It’s way too much to keep up with for the average player
New players were OK getting into commander and it has a dramatically more cards in it :/
@@daveclarke1990 You have to know this isn't the same thing. Commander is a non-rotating format that they sell preconstructed decks for. You don't have to keep up with anything to keep playing commander other than the banlist.
They've been doing this 6 sets a year since the Pandemic, homey. That's not relevant.
This is why they made foundations. It's supposed to just give you all the best staples for your deck archetype so that you're only shuffling in and out a handful of cards each set, and missing a set won't render your deck completely noncompetitive.
@@daveclarke1990 It's not the card pool, it's the treadmill. When I buy cards for Commander, they stay useful indefinitely. You have to constantly rebuy your Standard deck. (Which I suspect is both the reason why Commander became more popular *and* why WotC wants Standard to return to being the "premiere format" - Standard players are way more profitable.)
I love Cameron's insight and generally agree with his approach to the Spiderman and other UBey sets. However, the problem is that you no longer can make this decision if you want to play constructed sanctioned formats (not even necessarily on a highly competitive level), and that saddens me, especially as former Modern enthusiast and someone who liked to occasionally tip toes in Standard play.
I stand by what y'all (Kathleen or Cameron) so eloquently said before:
I don't want the number of Universes Beyond to exceed the number of Universes Within.
Also "Universe Within" would be a good Blue Sorcery
1:01:30 Counterpoint. The increase in the amount of product released, particularly moving up to 6 full standard sets a year (all probably paired with their own commander product), strains the resources and time of design teams. This may not lead to intentional power creep, but things slipping through the cracks. This is how Nadu was released in the form that it was.
While there may not be a directive to powercreep UB cards, the product bloat that Magic has experienced (with UB being a symptom and cause to), taxes what design can feasibly test and account for.
While I wholeheartedly agree that 6 full sets is too much, that has also been around the same output as the past few years... And actually less than 2024!
2024: 4 standard sets, MH3, Foundations, Foundations Jumpstart, Mystery Booster 2, Ravnica Remastered, Fallout Commander Decks, Ravnica Clue, Assassin's Creed, and The Big Score.
2023: 4 standard sets, Aftermath, LotR, Dominatria Remastered, Dr. Who Commander Decks
2022: 4 standard sets, Baldur's Gate, Unfinity, Warhammer commander decks, Jumpstart 2022.
Do I wish the relentless sets would slow down? Yes! But is 2025 going to be a ramp up in the amount of cards being made? Probably not!
46:10 There actually is a MacGuffin that they showed some of the card of. It's called The Aetherspark, and it's a Legendary Artifact Planeswalker - Equipment. Seems to be an artificial spark that Ghirapur is offering up as a prize in the race. Chandra is in the race to get it for Nissa.
39:50 Cameron's POG face is priceless!
TWO POGS CAMERON!? WHAT IS HAPPENING?!
I've been waiting for the "this card" change for years. The scenario Wheeler described (copy of Figure of Destiny example) is the #1 point of confusion I run into with newer players. I do think legendary creatures should follow the same rule though.
I think I like the combat change? Mostly from a Limited player perspective, I think it will be largely an improvement.
Coming in from Yugioh my first thought when I read a magic creature was "Ok, so this ability triggers whenever a creature with this name is played right? Otherwise why would they write it like that?"
As someone who does play standard, i am in fact now obligated to pay attention to UB sets which i don't particularly like. That by itself is truly, honestly, probably fine. I don't like it but if it gets more players to play the format i like then that's good. What i cannot stand and am fucking pissed about is that we have one less in universe set a year going forward. I hate that giving other people the magic they want comes at the expense of the magic i want.
On the other hand, they’ll probably be giving 4 magic sets that aren’t universes beyond, which is probably not a lot less than they used to before universes beyond started.
@beningram1811 they've explicitly stated that going forward there will be 3 universes beyond sets a year and 3 standard universes within sets a year. We used to get 4 universes within standard sets a year so that's certainly a decrease
@ so we get Innistrad remastered, Tarkir, Aetherdrift, Edge of Infinity (that’s four) by August. And Final Fantasy, Spider-Man, and the unknown one are the Universes beyond.
And then no more Magic?
@beningram1811 innistrad remastered isn't a standard set. We only get 3 standard legal universes within sets next year, and once again I will say THEY EXPLICITLY SAID this is the pattern going forward. We are getting one less standard legal magic ip set a year.
@ ok. So without that, it’s three. Then… no more magic for the rest of the year?
Playing standard in 2026 is gonna make your deck look like the inside of a hot topic from the early 2010s
I was previously someone who was just going "wow all this crossover stuff is weird, I'm glad I don't get affected by it as primarily a standard player on arena". Hearing that I won't be able to do that anymore is definitely getting me to consider making the magic break balatro started me on more permanent.
If I wanted to see Planeswalkers and Spider-Man together I'd read fanfic of it (or I would if anyone actually wrote MTG crossovers). I have zero interest in corporate marketing content like this; there's a reason I don't really watch movies or TV anymore and it's because the recycling of culture into remakes and reimaginings just makes me tired.
To take the engagement bait, my pick for the least likely franchise for a UB crossover with Magic would probably be Kamen Rider. It’s incredibly niche in NA and Europe and there’s been friction between Hasbro and Toei with how the Power Rangers/Super Sentai rights are being used by Hasbro. But on the other hand, it’s HUGE in Japan and a bunch of other countries, it has so much design space that could be used, and if Toei ever wants to try and push Kamen Rider to a primarily English speaking audience then Magic would be perfect advertisement.
My 2nd option would be Yugioh, but I don’t think I need to explain that one.
Shin Gojira/Ultraman/Kamen Rider UB? I'll certainly take it over FF and Marvel and Spongebob and Doctor Who and whatever lmao.
I've never really been able to put words to my emotions very well, so expressing the feelings I have about UB and Wizards' general attitude towards magic's story is kinda difficult. I think overall both Sam from Rhystic Studies and Prof with their respective pieces on the topic encapsulate my thoughts fairly well, so if you want a general idea of how I feel, those two are a good metric, but I will try to express myself a bit in the ways that I differ.
I didn't mind the concept of Universes Beyond when it began. When it was just secret lairs with street fighter characters on them and such, that was fine. When it was a single premium set with LotR, I was wary, but willing to be convinced since I felt that LotR has a place to stand amongst magic as *the* foundational piece of western fantasy that most (not all, but most) western fantasy draws some of its lineage to. Then they announced there would be multiple Marvel sets, and the announcement trailer for that collaboration made no effort to include Magic as something to be excited about, electing instead only to make a shitty pun about the name, and that was when I knew we were heading for much worse waters. Now we're here, and half (or more, depending on how you count stuff like the transformers cards, the assassins creed thing, and secret lairs) of Magic is no longer Magic. As someone that really really loves magic's setting, characters, and story, it breaks my heart to see both Wizards and my fellow players tell me that the parts of magic I find the most special are not as important to them as seeing Captain America on a magic card. The strong ludonarrative harmony engendered by the flexibility and creative restrictions of its game design are apparently better spent showing off how good Spider-man is at doing whatever a spider can than on Magic's own characters and worlds. At first it made me angry, but now it just makes me sad.
At the very least, I would have liked if these crossovers had gone both ways, but a large part of how distressing UB is, is that any time we get something UB, that's a guarantee that there will be absolutely no original magic content, nothing to make fans of *magic* excited about it, or to make people who don't know magic be excited about its universe. Imagine if Games Workshop had made killteams of the guilds, or if Capcom had released costumes of magic characters in Street Fighter. I'm still vaguely holding out hope that FFXIV announces an MTG crossover event just to have a sign that somebody, somewhere, cared about promoting and sharing the world I love so much with other people.
I'll probably still play magic. I might even play with the FF cards, since FF is one the few series that means as much to me as magic does and its not like anything I do will make UB stop anyway. Foundations is the exact kind of set and product I as a member of the RTR/Theros/Khans generation (hi Wheeler, thanks for calling me out lol) have been asking for for years. But I am probably going to take a substantial step back from magic. Maybe I'll find enough people interested in playing a version of standard that reduces or cuts down on what UB is allowed, or is interested in playing mini formats of just "Foundations + whatever set is most current" just to keep the vibe from getting too weird. Sorry for rambling so much, and thank you all at LRR for being such kind people and wonderful faces fir the community. Have a good one.
Part of the joy of Magic's own worlds is that they can play with and overlap each other, sharing characters and creature types and in-jokes. UB isn't 'bringing Final Fantasy into Magic', it's creating a self-enclosed set which cannot reference anything else in Magic and no other Magic set can ever reference again. It feels weird that half of all sets going forward are going to be that awkward guy at the party who doesn't know anyone else there.
I used to play back in Ice Age days. Foundations gives me huge nostalgic feelings.
Foundations has nothing to do with Ice Age and how it played. Also, Ice Age played quite poorly, but it were different times.
When Wheeler started explaining the types of players, I was sitting here waiting to see which category I fell under and then he immediately called me out hardcore. I literally did start with Khans/Theros/Magic Origins and my magic "career" is EXACTLY the way Wheeler described it
I have never felt so seen as a magic playyer.
One of Wheeler's comments got me thinking. UB products that are more fantasy/magic-leaning would likely be easier to swallow for players, and even easier to reskin. There are quite a few mainstream cartoons that they could use; Adventure Time, Amphibia, and to a slightly lesser extent, Steven Universe.
16:37 Wheeler calling out my Magic generation (I got the Izzet vs Golgari duel decks for Christmas 2012)
The Khans player mentioned! That's me!
I felt seen in a weird way at that generation breakdown lol
and me!
I'm kinda annoyed by the fact that UB is going to be standard legal, because this means that all future UB releases will be full editions, like LOTR, instead of W40k, Fallout or Dr. Who, that allowed you to get all precons and have the whole collection for "cheap". Being a fan of Final Fantasy and being hyped about the set for a while now, I can only hope it won't be as expensive, but time will tell...
Lots of good thoughts and opinions on this episode of TTC - have definitely been waiting for it since all the news dropped! In the panel where they talked about Aetherdrift they did say specifically that it was a race for a prize - that prize being the Aetherspark, an artificial planeswalker spark! Chandra is racing to win it for Nissa which I think is very cute and fun, but I am deeply curious how and why this whole thing is going to be set-up in universe lol.
My only real concern about the Universes Beyond stuff, is that now we have six sets coming into standard next year
In response to the continued Fortniteification of MtG I’ll be establishing play wherever I can that excludes all UB cards and content categorically and I’ll only expand my collection with high quality proxies. Even if it’s just my house.
We’ve crossed the thermocline of trust to where enough of the products aren’t for me that MtG going forward isn’t for me.
Least likely Secret Lair: A Touch of Fry and Laurie
Look you can feel what you want about the SpongeBob Secret Lair but I for one and looking forward to Graham introing a podcast as 'Brodcasting live from A Pineapple Under the Sea on the plane of Bikini Bottom"
Between 3 year rotation, Foundations being a very strong base level and there being 6 standard sets per year.. standard IS going to be a significantly more powerful format. It is going to look a lot more like extended than what standard has traditionally been. I do agree with Graham that UB in itself is not going to be the catalyst for power creep.. its just going to be because there will be WAY more cards in the card pool, literally thousands more than we are used to.
Something worth noting about the sets of 2025: Mark just said today on his Tumblr that they did, in fact, reveal everything that's going to come out next year (besides the unannounced UB set, of course). So no, you don't have to worry about two or three extra sets on top of the ones revealed. This also means that 2025 will have two sets less than 2024, so props for that, I guess?
I'll believe THAT when I see it. What, no product from August to Dec 2025? No way.
@@matthew5226 There are two products on the timeline after August.
I don't care that UUB is going to be sweet, I am upset that they are taking the set I was most excited about for 2025 and delaying it for "trust us it's good" I would be more forgiving if I knew what it was. They should have either kept Lorwyn or announced the UUB.
Lorwyn's only getting delayed like 3 months from where it was before. it's fine
@@Silas_MN for what?
@@cameronhall6825 I don’t understand your question
@@Silas_MN what is it getting delayed for?
@@cameronhall6825 are you trying to make some kind of point or are you asking for actual information?
I mean I'm actively choosing to not buy the marvel secret lair, but I genuinely feel like it doesn't matter, they are still going to make money on it and make more products that are 40$ for 5 cards. I feel like wizards (the company not the designers) do not view me as a customer, they view me as a wallet that they want to empty. There are so many sets and powercreep is so severe that I'm less and less enthusiastic about each set.
The biggest thing for me goes back to what Kathleen said in a previous episode
Not verbatim quote
"I don't want universes beyond to become more than universes within"
And with secret lairs, we're there.
From now on there will be more Universes Beyond than Universes Within
And it's been said frequently "this product is not for you, and that's okay", but now slightly less than half of magic sets, a game that WAS for me, is no longer for me.
And that's a bummer to me. I'm excited for all the players who are irl pogging about each of the sets, but I wish we were pogging together instead of only some of us
And now every format is in the "not for you" camp except limited for UW sets
I keep thinking of the skit seth made where someone plays all the universes beyond cards in a single deck, has an attraction deck, etc. It's not even a skit anymore. That's just what playing looks like. And it's not even a thing of "Oh, are you picking the within art or the beyond art?" because there's no within art. I am building a discard artifact deck and I am staring at Veronica dissident scribe thinking to myself "this card is too good not to play, but she is universes beyond. Why is it in this deck?"
I can't think of an archetype of deck be it commander or something else, where you can't at least consider the beyond cards.
Like... Watching north 100 showdown and seeing alpha deathclaws and warhammer robots smashing down on lanowar elves... It's only fun so many times.
Magic the gathering has the become the fortnite of card games, and I don't like it
Yeah, when 'this product is not for you' crosses over into dangerously close to/probably over half of released product, it becomes 'this game isn't for you' and that... that sucks.
Wow, I am clearly missing out. Where can I listen to Camerons sonnets?
I wanted this episode to be like 30 minutes longer as the 3 of you feedback with each other
To answer Graham's question: There is no property I would be surprised for Magic to crossover with. That's what selling out is, it's becoming available to everyone.
Also hate Wheeler's non-answer of "Well you just don't have to interact with or buy these cards. You don't even need to play against them." If you enjoy playing Pioneer and Standard, you absolutely will need to buy UB product to stay competitive. As interesting as Foundations is, the UB announcement killed any interest I have in continuing to play those formats.
@@tannermattingly4462 I would argue that The One Ring's stranglehold on more powerful formats makes them similarly unplayable without running UB.
Pauper is the least affected currently by LotR, but even that is super prevalent with the landcyclers and lembas.
But I think Wheeler is directing that answer squarely at those who only play Commander and he is right there. You never *have* to play anything in Commander unless you are building a deck that only a UB legend could fill the mechanical niche necessary for a commander of that strategy (ex. They make a universes beyond UBG legendary merfolk)
Unlikely but possible Secret Lairs:
1. Stardew Valley - Food generating cards.
2. Gummi Bears - Bears and bounce spells.
3. Riverdale - All Planeswalkers drawn to be in Highschool and the secret card is Murder.
4. Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader - all spells with no more than 2 syllable words on the card.
5. You Can’t Say That On Television - all slimes and oozes with Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar as Barth for the secret card.
BG3 came out in early access like 4 years before the full release and all of the main characters featured in the MTG crossover (Astarion, Shadowheart etc) are introduced in the first 20 minutes that was available since day 1.
As a maily limited player I am also affected. Since I don't like UB for many reasons, there are just less sets for me. But as Cameron pointed out, I have other hobbies, but I'm afraid that if less and less sets are for me, I play less and eventually loose touch.
I mean, 4 draftable sets a year (if you include Innistrad remastered) is still plenty. That's how I plan to still engage with the game post-FF launching and I stop playing constructed.
Honestly, what I'm the most bummed about is that it seems that the days of cool world building by WotC are over. Bloomburrow seemed kind of cool, but other than that, it just seems that even the original sets are more "Magic characters but as cowboys/racers/astronauts/..." instead of actual interesting worlds to explore. Ixalan may have been the pirate set, but there was much more to it to discover.
Original Tarkir was probably one of my favorite sets ever and even this return doesn't really excite me from the announcement. Seems like they try to ignore the whole story and go back to the clans that everyone loved, but also dragons. But maybe I am just too pessimistic at this time and they can actually pull it off.
MTG Universes Beyond: Dyson Products. It features the animal vacuum cleaner, a 3/3 for 3, with suck gives +1-1 blow -1+1, and also tutors for a specific artifact called "lost earring"
Okay, now I need to get a copy of the Gunky Runner for my cube. I have both of the gunk slug cards in my cube, and I have custom Gunk tokens sleeved up, ready to shuffle in.
I think what wheeler said is exactly why these sets work
You’re all dead to advertisements you’d rather give excuses to wotc and say that it doesn’t matter or just do something else because you can’t be bothered to complain you just sink into the feeling of being advertised to and let it be
I bring an offering to the engagement gods! May their unfathomable algorithm be sated.
I don't know why my brain is telling me the UUB is Warcraft, but it's certainly sure of it.
Starcraft, oooh, so close
What i've been saying is that the UB well is going to dry up, sooner the more they make. There's only so many slam dunks, and eventually they'll run out of them and they'll either slow their roll or release a flop. I give it a couple of years of full blast before that happens.
Nintendo is the most outside thing that I could still see someone at Wizard's trying to do.
Also, not having Magic story for half a year blows. It blows massive chunks. They're clearly trying to do something with Loot, given that they gave Thunder Junction a whole separate rare sheet so they make sure people knew who he was, Bloomburrow showed Ral trying to find Jace, and Jace then showing up in Duskmourn, plus he's got a card in Foundations, and now I don't know if we're ever going to hear about what his whole deal is before anyone ceases to care.
The problem with UB standard sets is the space of reprints without creating a new sudo reserved list. WotC could have reprinted Sheoldred or Fable of the Mirrorbreaker in CMM or MH3. They didn´t do it, because they want to milk their cow to sell packs later, but they could have done it. Many other cards from W40k or LotR aren´t as easy as reprintable, because they need a full UW version with a new cardname or creaturetype (Tyranid, Necron), that isn´t protected by a non WotC IP.
WotC already stopped the UW programm for the SLD exclusive printings and has never reprinted a single one of the mechanical unique cards from the UB commander decks. Now we are ramping up from around 50-60 new cards per year from SLD and commander precons, to three times 50-60 cards per year, just from the standard sets. Yes most of the cards will never have much money value, because they´re too bad to see play in any format, but the cards that see play in Modern, Pioneer, Legacy or Commander will ramp through the roof, maybe even above some of the "cheaper" reserved list cards.
If you play mostly or only commander in untrusted pods with randoms over Discord/Spelltable, you can´t even avoid them at all.
Having resigned myself to UB existing and being legal and realizing I can either complain and annoy everyone or just tolerate it and play magic and not be insufferable while remaining annoyed in my head, honestly, a Cosmere UB set would be so cool, especially since the author is a huge MTG fan, wrote one of the Magic novels back in the day, and the Cosmere sort of operates a big like the multiverse, with it's own version of a sort of blind eternities and very special people having the ability to traverse it to get to other worlds while certain people aware of those other worlds are seeking to find a way to travel between them.
the weird line in the sand my brain has drawn is that
fantasy UB is fine, magic does fantasy
sci-fi UB is okay, magic touches sci-fi stuff occasionally
anything else, like superheroes? brain no like. too different
Yeah the problem is that the line is different for everyone.
But if they continue to do more and more UB, they're just going to cross the line for more and more people. The Final Fantasy fans don't want to play with Spider-man. The Lord of the Rings fans don't want to play with Assassins Creed. The Star Wars fans don't want to play with Star Trek.
For me its the inescapability of UniB now. Commander was one thing, thats where people should be able to play with the cards that make up their special deck.
But it being in all formats everywhere, means i cant NOT play with it essentially, and i just dont like ads enough to play with them all the time
My small opinion on things:
1. I dont like that there no longer is a constructed format in which I can avoid UB. I am competitive, but I still dont wanna see a Spiderman card at standard fnm.
2. I do NOT care how excited the lead of the UUB set is and how great its supposed to be I am disgusted by the treatment of their own IP in favor of another ad for sth else. But I suppose its in line with how wotc has treated Lorwyn ever since its original release.
3. Most out there still technically doable SL crossover? Phineas and Ferb
Cameron says AT-Field Underpants
James: "Time to say goodbye"
Foundations just makes me happy. The only thing that would've made me happier with this love letter to the game would be actually calling their bundles Fat Packs again and including a reprinting of one of the old novels in there. So many cards that bring back happy feels, both from when I played as a kid from Mirage-ish to after Mirrodin rotated out, as well as when I returned to the game around WAR. Plus, I'd been calling for years that they needed this, a legit core set that was rotation proof, either because they just reprinted it every couple years or because it was declared permanently legal. Sets a floor for standard decks and decreases the financial hit of rotation.
I recently got a friend into Magic, and while she enjoyed it, trying to now build her own decks is a challenge, because lack of cards. I don't see them doing this, but, it would be super cool if Arena just gave all new accounts created after Foundations releases a playset of all commons and uncommons from Foundations, and maybe 1 of each rare, just to give new players a less daunting starting point for their collection.
hi, khans* player here, this set looks super awesome and gets me super nostalgic for when i started playing (~m14)
oh and ub bad or whatever
TTC, the Cameron Duo Pog Episode
The biggest thing I noticed with the change to combat rules is that a whole lot of people actually didn't know there was a place to respond between "Order blockers" and "Damage." Hell, I'm one of those people who has been playing since Return to Ravnica (obviously not competitively) and I didn't really think about that. I guess I always assumed choosing the order of blockers was just the first part of applying the damage.
Your concerns about the MSRP pretty well match mine. I've continued to support my LGS because the owner doesn't cave to external pressure to increase prices. My hope is that with this change his distributors won't try to pass the buck off on him.
I was so sad I didn't get to meet any of you in Vegas! Hope I get to go to another one you all will be at!
I find it absolutely baffling that I'm being told, "It's weird you're so upset about this; you must not have much of a life outside of this hobby," by a man who is so deeply embedded into the same hobby that one of the designers custom-made a card for him.
You and others have read it like that and I get that this hurts.
But I think that's not what he meant. I first read it as something along the lines of: „Go outside, go touch grass. Have more than one thing that fulfills you.“ Which is not necessarily bad advice. But I think it also wasn't meant like that. I think it rather was an expression of his own alienation from MTG by the fortnite-ification of MTG, and that he is thus glad he has other things in his life that make him happy.
Man it took until the end of the episode for me to realize the title meant "Universes Beyond Standard" and not "Blue Black Standard"
As a big Final Fantasy fan I am super excited to collect some cards of my favourite characters and moments with gorgeous art, maybe buy a commander deck or two, but I also don't care if those cards are legal in any format especially competitive ones and would prefer if they were not.
Standard going from 4 to 6 sets a year with 3 UB is just so much and I hope they backtrack on it at some point. The only benefit to their legality for me that I can think of is that maybe the sales generated by standard will allow UB to worry less about being so powerful they need to slot into older formats like Modern but I have my doubts sadly.
On the topic of the damage assignment rule - if the rule causes people to not try to play combat tricks on defense to "get" the attacking player, it wil in general make people better players
Was in group 3. Was introduced by my ex in Khans. But really didn’t click for a couple more sets. First draft wasn’t until Kaladesh. First loved card is Angel of Invention.
The change to how damage and blockers work now kinda makes sense because it makes Combat Tricks more favorable for offense than defense which might lead to faster games and if that's the case I think it's fine?
I'm now Waiting for My Homestuck secret lair announcement
My called shot on UUB isn't Elden Ring, but Elder Scrolls. They already did Fallout and Elder Scrolls makes sense as a more on point Fantasy Setting.
It is going to be EVA, and Shinji won't have enough power to pilot the EVA unit 1.
I had honestly hoped for a little bit more UB Sturm und Drang, although everyones reactions are sensible & what I would have guessed. Aside from stuff other folks are already mentioning in terms of getting less cannon Magic, increased product churn, etc, I did want to note that some Magic players are just Arena players because that is what accessible or affordable for them, and recourse for an Arena player unhappy with this news is basically non-existent short of playing other games. I do think it's kind of sad that this is going to be the thing that ends Magic for a lot of those players, and that's unlikely to matter given the raw numbers UB does.
"Worse marketing than Transformers One"
Damn, what a SICK burn
my legitimate guesses for the unannounced UB set is either From Software/Elden Ring/Dark Souls, Star Trek or Avatar: The Last Airbender.
The last two are based on the leaked test proof Spock card and the fact that Hasbro clearly has a very good relationship with Paramount. And also how much an A:TLA set would excite me
ub in standard is going to be annoying, but i’m sure i’ll grow to accept it. i was heartbroken when i heard that not only would 50% of sets going forward be ub, but lorwyn was pushed back because of ub. it feels like mtg is losing so much of its identity beyond just the rule set and is just a shell for other franchises to come and advertise within
It's so funny Cameron brought up Band of Brothers, because I've been thinking about how they should make that and bring back Banding.
Have you guys stopped uploading TTC to Spotify for a particular reason? I miss you in my feed on the way to work.
Their podcast host is down so spotify hasn’t been able to get the podcast from it.
So, to clarify, the 2025 road map is apparently everything for 2025, at least as far as proper product releases go. Innistrad Remastered and the six sets shown will be everything. The final set is gonna be whatever UUB is.
Back when Elvish Mystic showed up in M10, alongside Runeclaw Bear, the stated reason for both was that they wanted a singular creature, because how many elves does it take to add up to a 1/1, or how many bears for a 2/2?
Least Likely UB set that could still happen: Muppets and/or Sesame Street
Honestly these were more likely than Spongebob when it came to fitting with magic's aesthetics.
Once they announced Spongebob,l though, you knew it was all just in it for the money.
Because, despite Spongebob's creators wishes, Spongebob is always there to be shoveled out at the lowest dollar.
And unfortunately for Muppet fans, Disney seems pretty unwilling to do anything with them.
Where do I fall on wheelers scale, starting in New Phyrexia/ Innistrad era? 🤔 I don’t consider that “old school” but it’s pretty significantly different from Tarkir era
I'm a little scared of having three UB sets in a year in standard, but I am glad to see them be in standard. Maybe in another timeline these could have been more spaced out and been the "new player" product that core sets functioned as for so long without the baggage of heavy reprints and simpler card design.
so now with this combat damage change, we can bring back banding so that the blockers can sometimes choose how combat damage is dealt
Sad to see the gang being OK with the Fortnite-ification of the MtG lore. A dark day.
To engage with the engagement bait: I think the least likely (but still possible) IP would probably be Mario?
I pray that we get and EDSC where yall get to play the runners as your commander... you could do w rolls each to see who gets what runner and then build around them!!!!!!
I used to play a ton of Standard on Arena, really it was my only format and the only way I played MTG. One of the things I liked about standard was how much of a meta shakeup Rotation was when it came around every year. If you hated playing against a card or ddck eventually it would go away. When they announced they werent going to rotate for a year it basically killed my interest in the format and now with Foundations being practically evergreen it feels like Standard will just get even more stale, with each expansion adding at most a card or two to every already established top deck. I've basically stopped playing Magic all together and I cant say I miss it too much when I think about how long I would have to play against something like the next Embercleave to get released.
To me, personally, Foundations feels like wotc saying goodbye to what magic used to be like, before whatever comes in the bleak future for Magic
FFIX and Steiner love, so here for it.
39:50 Graham you got char-gunked, I think there's an achievement for that
If UUB were a Sailor Moon set I would Snap-brew a Tuxedo Mask commander deck, and never play to win while playing it. My only goal would be to swoop in and assist the player in the most trouble.
I'm looking forward to the Aether Drift to be mapped out by the Omenhiker's guide to the multiverse! 😜
I wonder if "Spiderman in RAVNICA" would be a better crossover
Don't think I've ever gotten to a TTC this early. Have some engagement!
I'm hoping for an orphan black secret lair.
Doesn't have to be new cards, they can all just be clone effects.
Helena as evil twin would be so flavorful!
Least likely IPs for UB are pretty much everything Nintendo, but especially Pokemon. They are super protective of their IPs.
I feel the same way about Standard UB as Graham; understanding of why people are upset, apprehensive as to what it will be like, excited about Final Fantasy, but mostly, really annoyed that they pushed back Lorwyn to make room for another UB set. I don't like the 50/50 split of sets; if it were 4/2, I would be much more on board with it, since that would mean no Magic IP sets were sacrificed at the Urborg Cabal altar of Universes Beyelzenlok. That opinion will change, though, if it's a one-time exception to the rule and the resulting set is a slam-dunk grand slam 80 yard field goal half-court nothing-but-net such as Elder Scrolls, Soulsborne/Elden Ring, Hollow Knight: Silksong, Dune, Earthsea, Studio Ghibli, Redwall, Eragon, Legend of Zelda, or Berserk.