I feel like another aspect to consider with the Ojer Taq versus the Mondrak debate is that Ojer Taq is *only* creature tokens versus Mondrak which can double Clues, Foods, Treasures, etc which I feel is also a big distinction dependent on the deck.
46:16 i want a full episode on thia topic ASAP! "Your decks only have so many slots for this kind of effect" an episode for something about how many support cards are too many or something
Joey is right about Breach the Multiverse. The view he has that others dont is that of a graveyard player on potentially either side of the card. If you are a graveyard player, casting this spell feels AMAZING, but if you are a graveyard player and an opponent plays this it can be terrifying. Sure, you're fueling my yard, but you also get to cherry-pick the best thing out of it first and most of those targets are going to be powerful ETBs. Even worse is if I know you have it before you cast it, because then I'm forced to choose between advancing my game and sandbagging to not fuel your blowout card
Yeah, Dana's argument makes little sense to me. If you have an opponent playing a GY deck and they mill something strong... You just take it. Breach is a value piece that always hits, rise is a wincon. Doesn't make much sense to compare them
100% agree. I've took Rise of the Darkrealms out of my Scarab God deck to put Breach. The difference from 9 to 7 mana is huge, and I've yet to cast it and not win a game with it. It takes it from a card that's cast in a turn where everyone's board progressed/everyone has answers/it's too late to cast, to a legit gamewinning bomb that comes out of nowhere. The fact you also reanimate plainswalkers is the cherry on top. Rise also doesn't mill, so it depends on other players using graveyards or needing for key creatures to die to use it. If you're on a heavy graveyard meta, sure, Rise is better. But if not, Breach has to me proven to be much more impactful and much less conditional.
Agreed 100% Breach rules. I get only the argument for Sepulchral Primordial because being a creature does mean shenanigans... but Breach never disappointed.
@@yocowme I agree with this, but wanted to add that they(this channel) has made comments *against* certain cards simply because a comparable card was a few/couple mana *cheaper.*
I feel that Hoarding Broodlord gets played more often than you’d expect due to its budget deck flexibility, it’s only around a dollar ATM in comparison to other black tutor card prices. Additionally, its efficiency in comparison to the cheaper black tutor cards plays a role in why people would learn to this card.
Play this card in my ayara widow of the realm deck and it is so perfect. Tutor a damage doubler or tripler, get in an attack and dome someone for 16 or 24 next turn
As a budget player I'm happy they're underselling it, for casual it's low-key one of the best black tutors we've gotten in years. The longer everyone keeps overlooking this card the better 😉
It has been twice now that Dana has made the "I just made one of those up and you didn't catch it" joke, and I think it should be this year's running gag - and that Joey and Matt should immediately try to guess the fake when it comes up.
One big thing that seems to have been overlooked with breach compared to sepulcher and rise is that the latter two NEED things in opponents graveyards to reanimate where breach creates those targets with the mill.
Absolutely. I run a decent reanimator package in my Henzie, but I've swapped out Rise for Breach so I have that Kass reanimate when I get some grave hate. It fills the grave for me. Very helpful.
I feel like Hoarding Broodlord went over these guys head especially with it being black. I love playing that card and here's the thing... I rarely ever cast it. It being 8 mana is a non-factor. It has an ETB not a cast trigger so you usually always reanimate or cheat it out... and then you tutor a card that's tucked away safe in exile until you're ready to cast it. No worrying about it clogging your hand or being discarded.
Breach the Multiverse really shocked me on this list. I see that risk of fueling your opponents with graveyard synergies, but half of those are creature based and fuel you instead, so I feel like it's offset just by that. Plus just the fact alone that this negates the biggest weakness of reanimators, as it can even be cast on an empty graveyard makes this card absolutely outstanding to me.
This. My Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts reanimator deck actually has a fairly low density of reanimator targets, and it got a huge upgrade when I added Breach and Incarnation Technique. Being able to cast those with a creature-less graveyard and plop a Vilis on the field while dodging graveyard hate is huge.
It is literally one of my favourite cards of all time. If someone IS playing graveyard synergies, it usually gets something excellent out their graveyard? So it's even more valuable?! OK, maybe don't play it when someone has a SyrKon on board, but if anything, you're even more likely to steal their SyrKon before they get a chance to play it!
Another thing to consider about lotho is that it's two mana. Also I played it last night in my Carmen, cruel skymarcher deck and it did work. Sacrificing the treasure gets my life back and puts a counter on Carmen, absolutely busted.
I am with Joey on Breach the Multiverse. It is bonkers when you cast this. Never have been sad when casting this. Skrelv's Hive is one that I think is overrated. Having the creatures not be able to block is huge. I think Matt understated it a bit as I think all of the flip over praetors are overrated and dont play as well as some might think.
I've played with a few of the flip-praetors, they're weird but cool. I can see the Elesh Norn / Argent Etchings not fitting super well into a lot of white decks - the defensive stuff on her front side isn't bad, a 3/5 vigilance for 2WW isn't bad, and the saga is... okay? It does put 5x 2/2s on the battlefield but it's hard to build to more upside than that, incubators aren't super-well supported beyond that. Chapter 2 is strong, but then chapter 3 is an awkward wrath that wants you to be mostly Phyrexians. Jin-Gitaxias / Great Synthesis I'm building as a commander with the goal of emptying my deck for a Laboratory Maniac / Jace / or Thoracle win. I'll see how he plays, but being a card draw source in his own right with a payoff for card draw in the card draw color seems like it'll be playable. Sheoldred / True Scriptures is hard to enable from the command zone, but for any Dimir+ deck that has access to mill effects, she is utterly oppressive, a complete "remove me or this game is OVER" threat. ETB edict for nontoken, then flip for targeted destruction, mill/discard, and mass reanimation before flipping back to edict again? The power is there - it's just hard to set up the prerequisite in mono-black. Urabrask seems like a nice include for spellslinger. Free damage & more mana for the thing you were doing anyway? When it comes stapled to a 4/4 first strike, I'm supportive. The saga seems less game-ending than some of the others in EDH but better in 1v1 - that'll wipe a lot of a player's board and could just be the last 3 damage for 1. Vorinclex I've used a few times, the front face is already above-rate at 6/6 trample reach for 3GG that gets two forests. The saga is quite expensive but it can sure change a board.
@@jlaw131985 Oh yeah, in an Agatha deck I can absolutely see him going off. The ability is borderline at 8 mana - you can get 2 big creatures, and start countering up and then fighting; it's good but I haven't always used it even when I can afford it. At anything under 6 mana that's an immediate "yes please" - his ETB will ensure you curve into 6 and having a saga that good going off much earlier makes a ton of sense to me. I honestly think the other Praetors might be underplayed, except Elesh Norn // Argent Etchings who I can agree is maybe(?) overrated. The fact that both Jin-Gitaxias // Great Synthesis can be a wincon and Sheoldred // True Scriptures can be a wincon means that to me, these should play in decks that can enable their saga side.
Hoarding Broodlord is popular because it combos by itself. it gets saw in half, which then fetches peer into the abyss and something like burnt offering. its 8 mana to tutor any 2 cards in your deck when done right
While I think it’s over represented in many decks, I LOVE Hoarding Broodlord in my Prosper deck. I have a dragon package sub-theme in the deck using Magda, Goldspan Dragon, Ancient Copper Dragon, and Hoarding Broodlord. I remember one game where I had Magda, Mirkwood Bats and Mayhem Devil on the field. Tutored for Hoarding Broodlord, got Ob-Nixilis Captive Kingpin, and just went to town. It’s not an optimal card, but dang if it isn’t fun.
broodlord is good because it's a tutor on a stick, so you can reanimate and blink it to get maximum value, along with the mana reduction from the convoke, imo it's one of the best reanimation targets in a reanimator deck
Broodlord is amazing in cedh. For 8 mana, which will almost always be less cause you have creatures on the field, it lets you tutor and play demonic consultation. In other cases it sandbags combo pieces until they are needed and opponents cant wheel them away. At worst, it deters kraum from attacking you.
My 2 cents on Lotho. He is a 2 Mana Value card, same as Dockside, but it is less scary than Dockside, which is good. You draw less attention from the other 3 players whereas Dockside will make you a massive threat even if your Dockside only gets you like 3-4 treasures. Also, it can actually be a lot more powerful than Dockside, if you get it out early then it will accrue you a lot of treasures over the next few turns in casual Commander, but in casual Commander a turn-2 Dockside isn't all that great. Not every casual game will have a lot of Artifacts and Enchantments out on turn-2 or 3 but every player will cast a 2nd spell in a turn multiple times. This sneaky and slow build up is what makes Lotho great, it's almost as good, if not better, than Dockside over time yet draws you 1/10 of the attention.
saying that Breach was bad because your opponent might have Konrad out was just such a weird example to use against it, especially since you're making the deck... you don't have your own Konrad in your black deck that's milling decks with Breach?
I can't believe they're this down on breach. The card is nuts. I just don't understand how you're going to be afraid of Syr Konrad for breach but not for rotdr but rise can get you *more damage* off Konrad than breach! These takes are just so so bad. Breach is insane.
I think one thing y'all are forgetting about Elesh Norn is it affects your creatures as well. If you attack into them, when they block they need to pay 1 for each of those blocking creatures too unless they want to lose 2 life for them, and when they prepare to attack you can threaten the same on defense. I think it's best to evaluate her the same way we look at Ghostly Prison, for what it deters rather than what it does. You effectively have a Norn's Annex (flavorful), and when you attack your creatures kinda have Afflict 2.
a friend of mine who's a big cedh player says Everbody Lives is better because it can stop an opponent from getting to a combo win whereas even if you're phased out with teferi's protection, an opponent can still get a combo win.
@@esconde9922 Tefari's protection can save your board, be a fog and resist those pesky mass exile effects, while keeping all your counters and tokens in check. You can also use it in tandem with wiping the entire board to essentially create a one sided boardwipe.
I remember playing a game shortly after all will be one came out. One player played a staff of compleation and told the table it was the most busted card printed in the set. They then they paid 12 life and 5 more mana to draw 3 cards with it over the next turn cycle before promptly dying…
Dawn charm would be a good replacement for everybody lives. It’s a fog, regenerates a creature, or counters a spell targeting you functionally equivalent to hexproof. But it’s like a tenth of the price of everybody lives
@@zackkelley2940 reprieve lets them do it again. Everybody lives lets you keep potential help if someone is running away with the game. Everybody lives isn’t worth its price tag tho
Hoarding Broodlord is a cEDH one-card combo with Saw in Half which goes becomes Peer Into the Abyss, which results in drawing about 40 cards. At 2%, a notable portion of that play is likely cEDH related.
The comparison of Fiery Emancipation / Gratuitous Violence and Mondrak / Ojer Taq is strange. In the red case for one more mana you get a triple and more versatility (any source rather than a creature) wheras in the white case it's two more mana for a triple that is more restrictive (creature tokens only). IMO Fiery Emancipation is an upgrade wheras Ojer Taq an option.
Staff of Compleation may be an overplayed card generally, but in my sample size of one game playing with it in my Oops-all-Ajanis Master-Chef Lae'zel, I profitably used all 4 modes on it. It's base line as a 3-drop mana rock makes it not completely useless. I used the destroy mode to make a bunch of tokens using One with the Kami when my creatures with +1/+1 counters got pacified. Then, when the Atarka, World Render player got it buffed up to one-shot territory, I used the card draw mode before my turn to dig for Ajani Steadfast, and the proliferate mode to be able to emblem him that turn to stop the one-shot.(Lae'zel gets +1 loyalty counter for the cast and the proliferate.)
I ran it in a Ratadrabik deck on arena as another sort of token doubler. It would double the Ratadrabik triggers and any other aristocrat effects I had going. Getting 2 tokens of Elas il-Kor and then doubling the death triggers on each could spiral quick. Plus if you have to let it die, you just get another one from Ratadrabik.
I am running it in Henzie, where you double the draw- triggers from Blitz. Plus, I built the deck with most of the Blitz- creatures, even the not so good ones, so there's mostly fodder to make it indestructible
You know how you shouldn't judge a planeswalker for it's ultimate? Don't judge Breach the Multiverse with a scenario where the good choices are already there and also a hate piece is on board.
I think comparing Lotho to Monologue Tax is just... a wild evaluation. They are so different. Lotho has the benefit of creature recursion, lower mana value, easier to trigger. Literally EVERYONE would pay 1 life to make 1 Treasure. Would you play a 2-mana enchantment that says "During each player's turn, you may pay 1 life to gain 1 treasure"? For sure
The Breach the Multiverse take is wild to me. It is a self-contained value card with MASSIVE upside. Rise of the Dark Realms needs setup. Breach can be cast after a Farewell and still net you a crazy amount of value. And you get to cherry pick the best things milled. The card is a house
I love Ojer Taq, I had him in my Vampire Demon deck but moved him to my Ceaser deck. The more tokens the better with Ceasers ability and the fact that to get rid of Ojer you have to exile him or he always comes back, just crazy helpfull. Got him and anointed procession so i sac a creature with Ceasers ability and instead of getting 2 soldiers, i get 12 then ping my opponent for a minimum 12 damage. Its amazing.
I think one of the aspects that they missed in comparing Breach the Multiverse to Rise of the Dark realms, Sepulcral primordial and similar cards is that breach the multiverse ALSO fuels those cards! Ofc if you're against a graveyard deck it can feel scary, but if your deck also has those powerful bombs having a way to guarantee that there'll be something good in the graveyards is very nice. Maybe this is my mindset of a casual battle cruiser pod player, where it can take a while to remove cards from the field, or if they are removed they are usually exiled by a white player, so getting many great targets in grave can take a little while, compared to rise of the dark realms which is just always on
Breach the Multiverse putting 10 cards in your own graveyard is very relevant, since you're probably playing AS the deck that wants a stocked graveyard.
im a huge fan of the deckbuilding ideal of finding a dragon to match what you doing in the deck. in defense of hoarding broodlord; im playing it in my tasha the witch queen deck. exiling and playing your opponents cards is tasha's main jam. broodlord may be a little overrated but it does great work in the home i found it in. that is the nice thing about the design space we've moved into, weird cards that can occupy a niche and less just good for everything cards.
I'm currently constructing a Vial Smasher / Sakashima deck that I've included Transcendant Message in. While the copies of Vial Smasher can't convoke the blue pips, the deck is primarily blue so I run more blue in the mana base, and it is a larger instant draw spell that should give me a decent trigger for all of my Vial Smashers. On top of that, attacking or blocking with my 2/3 goblins is not advised, so they should be available to use for convoke for a larger X value. All in all though, that doesn't make Transcendant Message not overrated. I just have what might be a fringe case for it being good.
Some of these cards are some of my favorites, but at least in Hoarding Broodlord's and Breach the Multiverse's cases I tend to either ramp quickly into them or cast them for free anyway. In regards to the Ojer Taq debate, my personal way of viewing it and other token multipliers in general is what the card does to increase the speed of the clock I'm trying to put on my opponents. Of course that depends on the deck. For instance my Bant Galadriel deck doesn't bother running Ojer Taq because at 6 mana I'm looking to start building a board presence by casting multiple creatures and maximizing on Galadriel's triggers. A doubler at 4 cmc is a lot more reasonable in that deck because of how quickly I can put it onto the field compared to Galadriel's 5 cmc and Ojer Taq's 6 cmc. I'm having to balance token multipliers with token generators, and +1/+1 counter generators and multipliers as well. For 6 mana I can drop Mondrak and something like Conclave Mentor or Ledger Shredder instead.
For Elesh Norn, one big thing about her front half is that it's *and* damage to *any* of your stuff. So while yes they're probably gonna pay the 1 when they punch you with their 8/8, they're gonna have a harder time finding funds when you end up quadruple blocking with your token army, or when you swing at them sure they could block but then they have to pay 1 for each block or they're taking damage anyway. All of that on top of damage based removal getting a tax on it, especially boardwipes. Making them pay full price for Blasphemous Act one way or another!
I feel like some fair points were made for Elesh Norn but at 20K I don’t know if it’s overrated, that trigger will happen each time YOU go to combat too and opponents have to decide between letting your tokens continue to snowball and take the damage, or block little 1/1’s in combat and lose 2 life for each one blocked? 🤔
Stats say nearly 70% of Elesh Norn decks have the incubate commander Brimaz. So absolutely, you're making your opponents lose life even if they block your tokens, or pay to attack you like a Phyrexian Ghostly Prison.
I think Everybody Lives gets a slot in a lot of decks just because it stops wincons dead. That gives it value in the right decks especially if you're not running blue, so it'll always be pod dependent imo.
Broodlord is amazing and a simple wincon. 1st, lets be honest, most black decks aren't trying to cast this for 8 mana, they're going to reanimate this guy. It's a flickerable creature that tutors for any card and gives that card "protection"(completely safe from discard and the likes) and gives the card convoke so Broodlord is there to immediately make that spell cost at least 1 generic less. Go get Saw In Half on ETB and use him to convoke it, get a death trigger, tutor twice and get two 4/3 dragons to convoke with... then maybe grab a necromancy or reanimate(use dragons convoke) bring the original copy back. Now you have a 7/6 dragon and two 4/3 dragons and have tutored for any 2 additional cards. This can be undeniably powerful mono black graveyard fun before you start thinking about adding other colors. Flicker it a few times in a turn, win the game, you just got any 3 cards in your deck. Copy it? It's kinda boring but there's no denying this is a very strong card that slots in well to a lot of what black decks do in commander, plus it gives you can excuse to run Saw In Half and that's just hilarious.
More often than not, you don’t play cards like Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation without some way of protecting them. Most times you’re also not casting it on curve, but like a turn or two prior and if it “dies” (it’s not dead). I like the card it’s a lot of fun 😊
Staff of compleation is amazing in bombadil, proliferating repeatedly for free at instant speed is a rare ability and the option to either make it a 3cmc mana rock or draw is a nice upside, also i play lotho in my Mr.House because i need all the 2cmc and lower treasure producers i can get !
I have a wall of text tribal deck, and elesh norn plus sheoldred sagas combo well with each other. getting a bunch of creatures and blowing up other creatures, then having each opponent discard 3 and give your creatures doublestrike, then blowing up the board and putting all creatures from each grave to the field is pretty strong. it's weird and funky, and to be honest, the only weakness the deck has is going against a patient man because the value I get is huge when people refuse to read my board state.
I am playing a Teysa Karlov Kaya-Superfriends deck and I love the versatility of staff of competion in there a lot. It is a 3 Mana Manarock tapping for all colours and with my tokens having livelink the live loss didn't hurt ever. It also is a sacrifice outlet and helps proliferating my Planeswaklers, Hangerback Walker, Elenda, Yahenni, and so on. Drawing a card when needed also never was that bad for 4 live. So maybe that is a pretty special deck, but I really like all of the options on my Manarock, even if it is not a staff of dominance at all... 😅 But Drivnod didn't make the cut in there, too. The five mana slot is very crowded and just a backup doesn't do it for me. And I am totally with Joey. Breach may be a little overhyped, but it is just pure fun to see it resolve... 😊 Last but not least guys, thank you so much for the podcast. I am watching or listening every single episode and it is always great fun to enjoy the chemistry between those great individuals you all seem to be. You pretty often make my day and I can't even say how much I love your work! ❤
Transcendent Message has been an all star card in my Saint Traft and Rem Karolus deck. I agree with the sentiment that you should be able to win if you're drawing a lot of cards with it, but that deck often gives me a lot of the 1/1 humans that just end up being chump blockers most of the time so being able to draw cards with them in response to a board wipe has been fantastic.
Hoarding broodlord is a part of a win con combo with saw in half. I was listening to the podcast and I thought I'd mention that. That's probably why it sees so much play. Also it's really good in tasigur pod
For Ojer it really depends on the deck it's in and what you're using those tokens for. If its something like Jinnie Fay where those tokens can attack the second they hit field, and there are attack triggers to go along with it, Ojer does live up to the hype. Same with ETB/Aristocrat decks where those tokens are more for fodder/triggering effects and essentially just getting truckloads of value without even having to swing. If they have to sit around for a whole turn cycle though or it's more just in a deck that's going wide for the sake of going wide, the effectiveness drops off.
hoarding broodlord, does very well with Slimefoot and Squee, Reanimate the both, tutor for phyrexian altar, play it with your 3 creatures with convoc, and you biasicly win!
21:00 as you kinda suggested, a "populate" deck do like tripling very relevant token and copies Orthion, Bramble Sovereign and lots kf Simic-accepting clonrmakers cards would like to have more strongly relevant tokens. Tripling a 1/1 Human is ok, creating 3 clones of Craterhoof Behemot rather than kust 1 is .. win more, but it's thr rnd of spectrum: lots of stuff became from good yo game ending by having lots of copies
I put Ojer Taq in my Council of Four deck. It’s very nice going from 5 mana commander onto 6 mana card that supports commander pretty well. Council only triggers once each turn so making 3 a turn instead of 1 is pretty good.
Whew Matt, that Lotho take is super hot and super wrong, imo. Lotho is a massive step up to Monologue Tax. Why? As Joey mentioned, the “A player”, not “an opponent” text is a huge change, giving you a ton of extra control over when those tokens get generated, plus, it’s one less mana, and is on a 2/1 body that can be swinging early and chump blocking late once you’ve gotten your use from it. It’s crazy every time I’ve played it. Play it more, it’s so good.
I don't even want to take off turn 4 to play an annointed procession, so I see the argument in Other Taj...but on the other hand big stacks of tokens pour serotonin directly into my brain.
10:30 Big distinction between lotho and monologue tax is lotho is any player, not just opponents effectively increasing the power of the card by 33% while being one mana cheaper. If monologue tax isn't good, figuring out why it isn't good is important. If its not good because the effect is over costed, Lotho makes it better. If its not good because the effect isn't powerful enough, Lotho makes it better. Etc.
On top of this comparing it to other 2 mana ramp; if it makes more than a single treasure in a turn cycle it outpaces pretty much every other card at that slot besides Bloom Tender. You guys also bring up power level a lot when discussing the card but at what power level do players not play 2 spells a turn past turn 5? Precons play 2 spells or more before turn 5.
I play Hoarding Broodlord in my Rivaz of the Claw deck and I have all the low cost dragon cost reducers to tap for the convoke cost. Between them and Rivaz I can cast it on turn 4 or five reliably.
I actually run Transcendent Message in my Ovika deck. While I agree that quad-u is a steep price. I must say that if I'm casting it, I am winning the game on that turn. And that's because I also run City on Fire.
I'm pretty sure cEDH is propping up hoarding broodlord. You cast saw in half on it then search a two card win con, or draw your deck with peer into the abyss.
Delighted Halfling is a card that I knew would have a home in the format forever and likely won't get many if any reprints. I bought a dozen for $5-$7 dollars and expect they'll be worth $30+ in a few years.
Is it possible to attack with creatures then tap them after blocks are declared and still do damage? Could that be a window to cast transcendent message? Just curious about this as a possible option.
Ok, my play group must just do things differently...staff of domination wouldn't be that good in any of my decks. It takes too much mana. Staff of compleation, however, slots into a mana accel slot for certain decks. Granted, if you won't use the proliferate ability, you shouldn't play the card, but any infect, super friends, or +1/+1 counters deck would be hard pressed to find something better. First, it replaced itself the turn you play it (and can draw additional cards if you don't need anything else later, then it ramp/fixes your mana if you need, THEN you get to proliferate... multiple times! It may not be the best at doing any one thing it does, but it can so easily switch to any of those options to do whatever you need each turn.
hoarding broodlord is a 1 mana win the game card in mono black, that's one reason it sees play over moonshaker which needs setup. Also as said before Lotho is really good, for one it triggers if you play 2 spells in a turn when monologue does not. If people are drawing cards they're going to be playing cards, so you end up getting as much mana as a dockside would in many situations and its cheap so it's unlikely to be removed. The fact that you all can miss what makes cards good is astonishing, sure not every game is Cedh but most commander game involves people trying to win the game and not durdley nonsense piles. People usually are looking to find marginal upgrades to their decks and that leads to higher powered tables over time. Cards like Delighted halfling are amazing, its the best mana dork printed since birds of paradise why wouldn't you play it if you have it especially if you are replacing a $.25 card.
Hoarding broodlord my beloved... Ok to be fair, I think broodlord's last line of text and creature type are a trap, You don't run it in a cast from exile deck, and probably not in most dragon decks. Hoarding broodlord is much more of an upgraded rune-scarred demon that truly shines in go-wide or reanimator decks: on top of hitting a bit harder it enhances the card you tutor for. It's an evasive flyer that hits like a freight train and gets you whatever answer you need while also making that answer easier to cast potentially as soon as it hits with the added upside that casting it rather than reanimating it isn't the biggest ask thanks to convoke. If you have one other creature, it can even grab and immediately convoke a reanimate, or maybe you have a great board state and you grab a protection spell or counterspell that you can convoke in response to a wipe, or maybe it's a desperate situation and you need that wrath ASAP or are just grabbing darkness which you can convoke off of broodlord alone, or maybe you're feeling a bit gutsy and you grab an X spell finisher to obliterate all your opponents next turn. All this on top of the fact that you can bluff with it: your opponents now know that you have the perfect answer and they're not safe even if you're tapped out. Overall, broodlord is a very potent budget top-end. It gets you an answer when you're behind, protection when you're ahead, and gas when you're in neutral all wrapped up in a big flyer, and the added convoke on the tutored card makes it feel like you've got an ace up your sleeve. Sure, trying to use this as a cast from exile matters card is a fool's errand (though it's nice when it incidentally comes up, like if you have some madness cards in your discard-fueled reanimator or if you're tutoring and slamming delayed blast fireball), and it's not great in dragons, but it's an all-star in my raffine reanimator deck. I agree that a lot of people overrate it for the wrong reasons, but to say it doesn't have a home is underrating just how potent this effect and statline is.
Hoarding Broodlord is a better Rune-Scarres Demon when the demon creature type doesn't matter. It IS still a big flying tutor that also protects the tutored card from discard and offers a path to cost reduction. It's super solid. The best? No. But if you are tutor creature hungry it has plenty of 'overs'
only got to up to 17:24 in the video but regarding matt's opinion on the card falling flat and not meeting expectations, i think the card emulates the flavor of the staff well enough with the variety of options with the lack of built -in untapping, which if the only shortcoming of the card is power i think thats perfectly fine, its cool to have a weaker, more incremental but different staff of domination as it lets lower power level tables have the same vibe as the cool card without the power. Ive put completion personally in 4 of my decks vs the 0 due to simply how strong staff is and it doesnt fit the vibe of my meta. I feel like there are a lot of cards where, its just i wish i could casually run this, and they make a slightly different but weaker version of it that fits what im looking for. I personally would like more cards like staff of completion and less like domination
As a 3 mana rock that taps for any color and has upside in proliferate AND card draw? If you have a 3 mana rock in a slot it's an upgrade over it probably 90% of the time, and I'd say it's an upgrade to things like mind stone in the 2 mana slot.
In reference to ojer taq. I think there is a big mistake being made. Tripling a bunch of little 1/1s I can agree it doesn't make much sense. Where I think ojer taq gets it power from is being in command zone AND the big tokens. Imagine a tiamat/ur dragon deck. You get out ojer and mirrym. Now you're getting 4 copies of a big dragon. 4 klauths. 4 scion of draco. Etc.
You could literally see Joey thinking Dana is wilding about Breach the Multiverse, that card is absurd. Dana’s argument that you don’t wanna fill your opponent’s graveyards is true but Breach is so swingy it often doesn’t matter? Like even against someone like Joey, Breach is absurd because he is exactly the player to have haymakers. Do I care if I give him some reanimation targets if I get the best one?
Lotho's a really good card. Crazy take. Breach is an amazing card. "oh no, my opponents now have cards in the yard...." but you have 4 new permanents. Not a good take. Rise of the Dark Realms NEEDS a full yard. Breach doesn't. Delighted Halfling's VALUE is because of other formats, not EDH.
Breach the multiverse is a really good card at power level 5-8 in my opinion. At power lvl precon can basically win the game if your opponents dont board wipe. And his price on market is relatively low. Also, if you play self-mill i think it adds up too much value. The only downside is if an opponent is doing graveyard shenanigans but I dont think that has enough weight to call it overrated.
Ojer Taq seems like just a win-more card for me. I use Mondrak in my Kykar deck as a money printer whenever I cast something. Taq seems too narrow since she triples >>only
raiyuu is decent in isshin decks that have warriors or samurai that have good attack triggers or vigilance enablers which is something I find myself running a lot in isshin because extra combats often only untap the one time.
While I understand what they are saying about making things uncounterable and sure maybe it doesn't affect as many games as we would hope. You also won't typically know if it did anything. Because the player with a counterspell isn't gonna go "dang I can't counter it now" and basically tell everyone they have a counterspell.
I have straight won games casting breach or lost to opponents casting breach. The card is very good. Also the broodlord take is fiery garbage. If you’re paying 8 mana for it, I don’t think you’re doing it right. Card sees cEDH play on top of that and pretty much wins on the spot.
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I feel like another aspect to consider with the Ojer Taq versus the Mondrak debate is that Ojer Taq is *only* creature tokens versus Mondrak which can double Clues, Foods, Treasures, etc which I feel is also a big distinction dependent on the deck.
Exactly the comment I was going to add!
@@dementievatzExactly the response I was going to add!
Agreed. Thats why Mondrak is way more busted and versatile
it is also good for redundancy, there are not that many cards with this effect for decks without access to green
also regarding the comparison to fiery emancipation/gratuitous violence is also unfair as fiery is any source while gratuitous is only creature
46:16 i want a full episode on thia topic ASAP! "Your decks only have so many slots for this kind of effect" an episode for something about how many support cards are too many or something
Joey is right about Breach the Multiverse. The view he has that others dont is that of a graveyard player on potentially either side of the card. If you are a graveyard player, casting this spell feels AMAZING, but if you are a graveyard player and an opponent plays this it can be terrifying. Sure, you're fueling my yard, but you also get to cherry-pick the best thing out of it first and most of those targets are going to be powerful ETBs. Even worse is if I know you have it before you cast it, because then I'm forced to choose between advancing my game and sandbagging to not fuel your blowout card
Yeah, Dana's argument makes little sense to me. If you have an opponent playing a GY deck and they mill something strong... You just take it.
Breach is a value piece that always hits, rise is a wincon. Doesn't make much sense to compare them
100% agree.
I've took Rise of the Darkrealms out of my Scarab God deck to put Breach.
The difference from 9 to 7 mana is huge, and I've yet to cast it and not win a game with it. It takes it from a card that's cast in a turn where everyone's board progressed/everyone has answers/it's too late to cast, to a legit gamewinning bomb that comes out of nowhere.
The fact you also reanimate plainswalkers is the cherry on top.
Rise also doesn't mill, so it depends on other players using graveyards or needing for key creatures to die to use it.
If you're on a heavy graveyard meta, sure, Rise is better. But if not, Breach has to me proven to be much more impactful and much less conditional.
Agreed 100% Breach rules. I get only the argument for Sepulchral Primordial because being a creature does mean shenanigans... but Breach never disappointed.
@@altromonte15agreed and saying just play a spell that costs two more mana isnt convincing
@@yocowme I agree with this, but wanted to add that they(this channel) has made comments *against* certain cards simply because a comparable card was a few/couple mana *cheaper.*
I feel that Hoarding Broodlord gets played more often than you’d expect due to its budget deck flexibility, it’s only around a dollar ATM in comparison to other black tutor card prices. Additionally, its efficiency in comparison to the cheaper black tutor cards plays a role in why people would learn to this card.
Play this card in my ayara widow of the realm deck and it is so perfect. Tutor a damage doubler or tripler, get in an attack and dome someone for 16 or 24 next turn
As a budget player I'm happy they're underselling it, for casual it's low-key one of the best black tutors we've gotten in years. The longer everyone keeps overlooking this card the better 😉
Hording broodlord also gets played because it wins the game with saw in half and a 2 piece combo.
It’s played in ALOT of Cedh decks
It has been twice now that Dana has made the "I just made one of those up and you didn't catch it" joke, and I think it should be this year's running gag - and that Joey and Matt should immediately try to guess the fake when it comes up.
Oh I'd love that to continue lol
One big thing that seems to have been overlooked with breach compared to sepulcher and rise is that the latter two NEED things in opponents graveyards to reanimate where breach creates those targets with the mill.
Absolutely. I run a decent reanimator package in my Henzie, but I've swapped out Rise for Breach so I have that Kass reanimate when I get some grave hate. It fills the grave for me. Very helpful.
Overall a great card honestly. Get to most likely do something post Bajuka Bog/ exile abilities.
I agree also breach gets 4 creatures rather than the 3 from sepulchral
I feel like Hoarding Broodlord went over these guys head especially with it being black. I love playing that card and here's the thing... I rarely ever cast it. It being 8 mana is a non-factor. It has an ETB not a cast trigger so you usually always reanimate or cheat it out... and then you tutor a card that's tucked away safe in exile until you're ready to cast it. No worrying about it clogging your hand or being discarded.
Yeah i feel like they are viewing this cards in such a narrow sense. Hoarding broodlord if it hits the battlefield typically results in a win for me.
My buddy plays it with saw in half to get two more broodlords. It's a great card.
Reanimate it, blink it, or even convoke it out. Like they just ignored that word on the card, its potentially a free tutor in a tokens deck.
Breach the Multiverse really shocked me on this list. I see that risk of fueling your opponents with graveyard synergies, but half of those are creature based and fuel you instead, so I feel like it's offset just by that.
Plus just the fact alone that this negates the biggest weakness of reanimators, as it can even be cast on an empty graveyard makes this card absolutely outstanding to me.
This. My Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts reanimator deck actually has a fairly low density of reanimator targets, and it got a huge upgrade when I added Breach and Incarnation Technique. Being able to cast those with a creature-less graveyard and plop a Vilis on the field while dodging graveyard hate is huge.
It is literally one of my favourite cards of all time. If someone IS playing graveyard synergies, it usually gets something excellent out their graveyard? So it's even more valuable?! OK, maybe don't play it when someone has a SyrKon on board, but if anything, you're even more likely to steal their SyrKon before they get a chance to play it!
Matt was able to cast Last March of the Ents against us in Chicago this weekend. it was horrifying (he spanked us, but it was very cool)
Another thing to consider about lotho is that it's two mana. Also I played it last night in my Carmen, cruel skymarcher deck and it did work. Sacrificing the treasure gets my life back and puts a counter on Carmen, absolutely busted.
Agreed Lotho has done work for me and I’m excited to put it into my legendary party deck
I am with Joey on Breach the Multiverse. It is bonkers when you cast this. Never have been sad when casting this.
Skrelv's Hive is one that I think is overrated. Having the creatures not be able to block is huge.
I think Matt understated it a bit as I think all of the flip over praetors are overrated and dont play as well as some might think.
I actually like Vorinclex in my Agatha deck. His flip is great if it’s super cheap.
Urabrask is quite strong as a commander tbh
I've played with a few of the flip-praetors, they're weird but cool.
I can see the Elesh Norn / Argent Etchings not fitting super well into a lot of white decks - the defensive stuff on her front side isn't bad, a 3/5 vigilance for 2WW isn't bad, and the saga is... okay? It does put 5x 2/2s on the battlefield but it's hard to build to more upside than that, incubators aren't super-well supported beyond that. Chapter 2 is strong, but then chapter 3 is an awkward wrath that wants you to be mostly Phyrexians.
Jin-Gitaxias / Great Synthesis I'm building as a commander with the goal of emptying my deck for a Laboratory Maniac / Jace / or Thoracle win. I'll see how he plays, but being a card draw source in his own right with a payoff for card draw in the card draw color seems like it'll be playable.
Sheoldred / True Scriptures is hard to enable from the command zone, but for any Dimir+ deck that has access to mill effects, she is utterly oppressive, a complete "remove me or this game is OVER" threat. ETB edict for nontoken, then flip for targeted destruction, mill/discard, and mass reanimation before flipping back to edict again? The power is there - it's just hard to set up the prerequisite in mono-black.
Urabrask seems like a nice include for spellslinger. Free damage & more mana for the thing you were doing anyway? When it comes stapled to a 4/4 first strike, I'm supportive. The saga seems less game-ending than some of the others in EDH but better in 1v1 - that'll wipe a lot of a player's board and could just be the last 3 damage for 1.
Vorinclex I've used a few times, the front face is already above-rate at 6/6 trample reach for 3GG that gets two forests. The saga is quite expensive but it can sure change a board.
@@51gunner The saga being expensive is why I love Agatha with him...I think I flipped him 3 times once...that was a weird game.
@@jlaw131985 Oh yeah, in an Agatha deck I can absolutely see him going off. The ability is borderline at 8 mana - you can get 2 big creatures, and start countering up and then fighting; it's good but I haven't always used it even when I can afford it. At anything under 6 mana that's an immediate "yes please" - his ETB will ensure you curve into 6 and having a saga that good going off much earlier makes a ton of sense to me.
I honestly think the other Praetors might be underplayed, except Elesh Norn // Argent Etchings who I can agree is maybe(?) overrated. The fact that both Jin-Gitaxias // Great Synthesis can be a wincon and Sheoldred // True Scriptures can be a wincon means that to me, these should play in decks that can enable their saga side.
Hoarding Broodlord is popular because it combos by itself. it gets saw in half, which then fetches peer into the abyss and something like burnt offering. its 8 mana to tutor any 2 cards in your deck when done right
Calling Breach the Multiverse overrated is whack
it is true though, y'all should be able to tell the difference between being overrated and being bad
@@beurtalvarez 7 mana to mill 40 cards on the table and get 4 picks of the litter is not overrated.
Lol, that new picture of ManaCurves in the intro is great, love the energy 😄
As far as the Rise vs. Breach conversation, my take is simple.
Breach takes no setup to get going, and Rise requires too much setup to get going.
While I think it’s over represented in many decks, I LOVE Hoarding Broodlord in my Prosper deck. I have a dragon package sub-theme in the deck using Magda, Goldspan Dragon, Ancient Copper Dragon, and Hoarding Broodlord. I remember one game where I had Magda, Mirkwood Bats and Mayhem Devil on the field. Tutored for Hoarding Broodlord, got Ob-Nixilis Captive Kingpin, and just went to town. It’s not an optimal card, but dang if it isn’t fun.
Putting it with Saw in Half is also *insane*!
@@AmascutOnce you get to that point you could try adding burnt offering, victimize, and ardent elementalist
@@Amascutmy buddy does that, it's a great card and combo.
broodlord is good because it's a tutor on a stick, so you can reanimate and blink it to get maximum value, along with the mana reduction from the convoke, imo it's one of the best reanimation targets in a reanimator deck
Great target for saw in half. Now you have 2 more tutored cards with convoke, and two more bodies to convoke them.
Broodlord is amazing in cedh. For 8 mana, which will almost always be less cause you have creatures on the field, it lets you tutor and play demonic consultation. In other cases it sandbags combo pieces until they are needed and opponents cant wheel them away. At worst, it deters kraum from attacking you.
It also combos absurdly well with Saw in Half
My 2 cents on Lotho. He is a 2 Mana Value card, same as Dockside, but it is less scary than Dockside, which is good. You draw less attention from the other 3 players whereas Dockside will make you a massive threat even if your Dockside only gets you like 3-4 treasures. Also, it can actually be a lot more powerful than Dockside, if you get it out early then it will accrue you a lot of treasures over the next few turns in casual Commander, but in casual Commander a turn-2 Dockside isn't all that great. Not every casual game will have a lot of Artifacts and Enchantments out on turn-2 or 3 but every player will cast a 2nd spell in a turn multiple times. This sneaky and slow build up is what makes Lotho great, it's almost as good, if not better, than Dockside over time yet draws you 1/10 of the attention.
Breach the multiverse for me is one of the most powerful cards to use in commander
They were wilding with this take - Breach is so absurd.
saying that Breach was bad because your opponent might have Konrad out was just such a weird example to use against it, especially since you're making the deck... you don't have your own Konrad in your black deck that's milling decks with Breach?
I can't believe they're this down on breach. The card is nuts. I just don't understand how you're going to be afraid of Syr Konrad for breach but not for rotdr but rise can get you *more damage* off Konrad than breach! These takes are just so so bad. Breach is insane.
I think one thing y'all are forgetting about Elesh Norn is it affects your creatures as well. If you attack into them, when they block they need to pay 1 for each of those blocking creatures too unless they want to lose 2 life for them, and when they prepare to attack you can threaten the same on defense. I think it's best to evaluate her the same way we look at Ghostly Prison, for what it deters rather than what it does. You effectively have a Norn's Annex (flavorful), and when you attack your creatures kinda have Afflict 2.
a friend of mine who's a big cedh player says Everbody Lives is better because it can stop an opponent from getting to a combo win whereas even if you're phased out with teferi's protection, an opponent can still get a combo win.
Yup 100%
But then why not just run Angel’s grace?
@@Garl_Vinland I'm not a cedh player but i guess it's because everybody lives still can be used save your board or be a fog.
@@Garl_Vinland run both…
@@esconde9922 Tefari's protection can save your board, be a fog and resist those pesky mass exile effects, while keeping all your counters and tokens in check. You can also use it in tandem with wiping the entire board to essentially create a one sided boardwipe.
I remember playing a game shortly after all will be one came out. One player played a staff of compleation and told the table it was the most busted card printed in the set. They then they paid 12 life and 5 more mana to draw 3 cards with it over the next turn cycle before promptly dying…
Breach the multiverse is fantastic I don’t understand what dana is talking about, I feel like you guys meta is influencing your opinion on this one
Dawn charm would be a good replacement for everybody lives. It’s a fog, regenerates a creature, or counters a spell targeting you functionally equivalent to hexproof. But it’s like a tenth of the price of everybody lives
Everybody lives kinda has “I’m gonna counterspell the board wipe” vibes, but in white.
@@LoneSkag See also Lapse of Certainty, Reprieve, and Warping Wail.^^
The most important ability is the "cant win, cant lose". That blanks many strong combos. A Teferi's does not.
@@zackkelley2940 reprieve lets them do it again. Everybody lives lets you keep potential help if someone is running away with the game. Everybody lives isn’t worth its price tag tho
@@LoneSkag True, still a good way to buy time though.
Delighted Halfling isn't 12 dollars because of EDH its 12 dollars for other formats that want it.
Hoarding Broodlord is a cEDH one-card combo with Saw in Half which goes becomes Peer Into the Abyss, which results in drawing about 40 cards. At 2%, a notable portion of that play is likely cEDH related.
clearly joey has never slapped Everybody Lives under an Isochron Scepter and ruined everyone days
Hoarding Broodlord is a CEDH staple now thats why it's played a lot
The comparison of Fiery Emancipation / Gratuitous Violence and Mondrak / Ojer Taq is strange. In the red case for one more mana you get a triple and more versatility (any source rather than a creature) wheras in the white case it's two more mana for a triple that is more restrictive (creature tokens only). IMO Fiery Emancipation is an upgrade wheras Ojer Taq an option.
Is Tefari’s protection over-No. no its not
Staff of Compleation may be an overplayed card generally, but in my sample size of one game playing with it in my Oops-all-Ajanis Master-Chef Lae'zel, I profitably used all 4 modes on it. It's base line as a 3-drop mana rock makes it not completely useless. I used the destroy mode to make a bunch of tokens using One with the Kami when my creatures with +1/+1 counters got pacified. Then, when the Atarka, World Render player got it buffed up to one-shot territory, I used the card draw mode before my turn to dig for Ajani Steadfast, and the proliferate mode to be able to emblem him that turn to stop the one-shot.(Lae'zel gets +1 loyalty counter for the cast and the proliferate.)
I have never found a home for Drivnod. It has been awkward in most decks.
I ran it in a Ratadrabik deck on arena as another sort of token doubler. It would double the Ratadrabik triggers and any other aristocrat effects I had going. Getting 2 tokens of Elas il-Kor and then doubling the death triggers on each could spiral quick. Plus if you have to let it die, you just get another one from Ratadrabik.
I am running it in Henzie, where you double the draw- triggers from Blitz. Plus, I built the deck with most of the Blitz- creatures, even the not so good ones, so there's mostly fodder to make it indestructible
I put it in Wilhelt. Doubling lots of triggers when I sac zombies each turn.
Yeah 5 mana is a lot
You know how you shouldn't judge a planeswalker for it's ultimate?
Don't judge Breach the Multiverse with a scenario where the good choices are already there and also a hate piece is on board.
I think comparing Lotho to Monologue Tax is just... a wild evaluation. They are so different. Lotho has the benefit of creature recursion, lower mana value, easier to trigger. Literally EVERYONE would pay 1 life to make 1 Treasure. Would you play a 2-mana enchantment that says "During each player's turn, you may pay 1 life to gain 1 treasure"? For sure
Far out, I love you guys, easily my favourite EDH channel now. Please keep making videos for as long as you possibly can :)
The Breach the Multiverse take is wild to me. It is a self-contained value card with MASSIVE upside. Rise of the Dark Realms needs setup. Breach can be cast after a Farewell and still net you a crazy amount of value. And you get to cherry pick the best things milled. The card is a house
Ojer Taq was released in the same set as Anim Pakal. I run it in that deck and I find by turn 6 if this comes down it's a haymaker
I love Ojer Taq, I had him in my Vampire Demon deck but moved him to my Ceaser deck. The more tokens the better with Ceasers ability and the fact that to get rid of Ojer you have to exile him or he always comes back, just crazy helpfull. Got him and anointed procession so i sac a creature with Ceasers ability and instead of getting 2 soldiers, i get 12 then ping my opponent for a minimum 12 damage. Its amazing.
I think one of the aspects that they missed in comparing Breach the Multiverse to Rise of the Dark realms, Sepulcral primordial and similar cards is that breach the multiverse ALSO fuels those cards!
Ofc if you're against a graveyard deck it can feel scary, but if your deck also has those powerful bombs having a way to guarantee that there'll be something good in the graveyards is very nice.
Maybe this is my mindset of a casual battle cruiser pod player, where it can take a while to remove cards from the field, or if they are removed they are usually exiled by a white player, so getting many great targets in grave can take a little while, compared to rise of the dark realms which is just always on
Breach the Multiverse putting 10 cards in your own graveyard is very relevant, since you're probably playing AS the deck that wants a stocked graveyard.
Yea I also cut Drivnod from my decks since it felt that it wasn't being impactful at all, even in aristocrats.
Tru tru about the Chicago bears.. it was nice meeting all 3 of you at magiccon.. wish we could of jammed a game I got deep respect for ur input
Was great to meet you, thanks for saying hi!
im a huge fan of the deckbuilding ideal of finding a dragon to match what you doing in the deck. in defense of hoarding broodlord; im playing it in my tasha the witch queen deck. exiling and playing your opponents cards is tasha's main jam. broodlord may be a little overrated but it does great work in the home i found it in. that is the nice thing about the design space we've moved into, weird cards that can occupy a niche and less just good for everything cards.
I'm currently constructing a Vial Smasher / Sakashima deck that I've included Transcendant Message in. While the copies of Vial Smasher can't convoke the blue pips, the deck is primarily blue so I run more blue in the mana base, and it is a larger instant draw spell that should give me a decent trigger for all of my Vial Smashers. On top of that, attacking or blocking with my 2/3 goblins is not advised, so they should be available to use for convoke for a larger X value.
All in all though, that doesn't make Transcendant Message not overrated. I just have what might be a fringe case for it being good.
Some of these cards are some of my favorites, but at least in Hoarding Broodlord's and Breach the Multiverse's cases I tend to either ramp quickly into them or cast them for free anyway.
In regards to the Ojer Taq debate, my personal way of viewing it and other token multipliers in general is what the card does to increase the speed of the clock I'm trying to put on my opponents. Of course that depends on the deck. For instance my Bant Galadriel deck doesn't bother running Ojer Taq because at 6 mana I'm looking to start building a board presence by casting multiple creatures and maximizing on Galadriel's triggers. A doubler at 4 cmc is a lot more reasonable in that deck because of how quickly I can put it onto the field compared to Galadriel's 5 cmc and Ojer Taq's 6 cmc. I'm having to balance token multipliers with token generators, and +1/+1 counter generators and multipliers as well. For 6 mana I can drop Mondrak and something like Conclave Mentor or Ledger Shredder instead.
For Elesh Norn, one big thing about her front half is that it's *and* damage to *any* of your stuff. So while yes they're probably gonna pay the 1 when they punch you with their 8/8, they're gonna have a harder time finding funds when you end up quadruple blocking with your token army, or when you swing at them sure they could block but then they have to pay 1 for each block or they're taking damage anyway. All of that on top of damage based removal getting a tax on it, especially boardwipes. Making them pay full price for Blasphemous Act one way or another!
Unfortunately ojer taq is the budget token multiplier
Thats a really good point
Transcendent Message shines in Vigilance decks.
I feel like some fair points were made for Elesh Norn but at 20K I don’t know if it’s overrated, that trigger will happen each time YOU go to combat too and opponents have to decide between letting your tokens continue to snowball and take the damage, or block little 1/1’s in combat and lose 2 life for each one blocked? 🤔
Stats say nearly 70% of Elesh Norn decks have the incubate commander Brimaz. So absolutely, you're making your opponents lose life even if they block your tokens, or pay to attack you like a Phyrexian Ghostly Prison.
I think Everybody Lives gets a slot in a lot of decks just because it stops wincons dead. That gives it value in the right decks especially if you're not running blue, so it'll always be pod dependent imo.
Broodlord is amazing and a simple wincon. 1st, lets be honest, most black decks aren't trying to cast this for 8 mana, they're going to reanimate this guy. It's a flickerable creature that tutors for any card and gives that card "protection"(completely safe from discard and the likes) and gives the card convoke so Broodlord is there to immediately make that spell cost at least 1 generic less.
Go get Saw In Half on ETB and use him to convoke it, get a death trigger, tutor twice and get two 4/3 dragons to convoke with... then maybe grab a necromancy or reanimate(use dragons convoke) bring the original copy back. Now you have a 7/6 dragon and two 4/3 dragons and have tutored for any 2 additional cards.
This can be undeniably powerful mono black graveyard fun before you start thinking about adding other colors.
Flicker it a few times in a turn, win the game, you just got any 3 cards in your deck. Copy it?
It's kinda boring but there's no denying this is a very strong card that slots in well to a lot of what black decks do in commander, plus it gives you can excuse to run Saw In Half and that's just hilarious.
More often than not, you don’t play cards like Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation without some way of protecting them. Most times you’re also not casting it on curve, but like a turn or two prior and if it “dies” (it’s not dead). I like the card it’s a lot of fun 😊
Staff of compleation is amazing in bombadil, proliferating repeatedly for free at instant speed is a rare ability and the option to either make it a 3cmc mana rock or draw is a nice upside, also i play lotho in my Mr.House because i need all the 2cmc and lower treasure producers i can get !
I have a wall of text tribal deck, and elesh norn plus sheoldred sagas combo well with each other. getting a bunch of creatures and blowing up other creatures, then having each opponent discard 3 and give your creatures doublestrike, then blowing up the board and putting all creatures from each grave to the field is pretty strong.
it's weird and funky, and to be honest, the only weakness the deck has is going against a patient man because the value I get is huge when people refuse to read my board state.
Lotho and Delighted Halfling a are both in my Jodah the Unifier deck. I think they fit here even if overplayed overall.
Last March of the Ents basically reads “you win” on it every single time I’ve cast it in game. It’s incredible.
I love my Staff of Compleation in my Minthara orzhov experience proliferate deck. Other than that I have never even glanced at it for a deck.
I use it for willowdusk essence seer just to get the pay life parts so I can get more life loss.
I am playing a Teysa Karlov Kaya-Superfriends deck and I love the versatility of staff of competion in there a lot. It is a 3 Mana Manarock tapping for all colours and with my tokens having livelink the live loss didn't hurt ever. It also is a sacrifice outlet and helps proliferating my Planeswaklers, Hangerback Walker, Elenda, Yahenni, and so on. Drawing a card when needed also never was that bad for 4 live. So maybe that is a pretty special deck, but I really like all of the options on my Manarock, even if it is not a staff of dominance at all... 😅
But Drivnod didn't make the cut in there, too. The five mana slot is very crowded and just a backup doesn't do it for me.
And I am totally with Joey. Breach may be a little overhyped, but it is just pure fun to see it resolve... 😊
Last but not least guys, thank you so much for the podcast. I am watching or listening every single episode and it is always great fun to enjoy the chemistry between those great individuals you all seem to be. You pretty often make my day and I can't even say how much I love your work! ❤
And please don't blame my English, as I am no native speaker... 🫣
Transcendent Message has been an all star card in my Saint Traft and Rem Karolus deck. I agree with the sentiment that you should be able to win if you're drawing a lot of cards with it, but that deck often gives me a lot of the 1/1 humans that just end up being chump blockers most of the time so being able to draw cards with them in response to a board wipe has been fantastic.
Hoarding broodlord is a part of a win con combo with saw in half. I was listening to the podcast and I thought I'd mention that. That's probably why it sees so much play. Also it's really good in tasigur pod
For Ojer it really depends on the deck it's in and what you're using those tokens for. If its something like Jinnie Fay where those tokens can attack the second they hit field, and there are attack triggers to go along with it, Ojer does live up to the hype. Same with ETB/Aristocrat decks where those tokens are more for fodder/triggering effects and essentially just getting truckloads of value without even having to swing. If they have to sit around for a whole turn cycle though or it's more just in a deck that's going wide for the sake of going wide, the effectiveness drops off.
hoarding broodlord, does very well with Slimefoot and Squee, Reanimate the both, tutor for phyrexian altar, play it with your 3 creatures with convoc, and you biasicly win!
have you mentioned the thesaurus is terrible?
21:00 as you kinda suggested, a "populate" deck do like tripling very relevant token and copies
Orthion, Bramble Sovereign and lots kf Simic-accepting clonrmakers cards would like to have more strongly relevant tokens. Tripling a 1/1 Human is ok, creating 3 clones of Craterhoof Behemot rather than kust 1 is .. win more, but it's thr rnd of spectrum: lots of stuff became from good yo game ending by having lots of copies
I put Ojer Taq in my Council of Four deck. It’s very nice going from 5 mana commander onto 6 mana card that supports commander pretty well. Council only triggers once each turn so making 3 a turn instead of 1 is pretty good.
Whew Matt, that Lotho take is super hot and super wrong, imo. Lotho is a massive step up to Monologue Tax. Why? As Joey mentioned, the “A player”, not “an opponent” text is a huge change, giving you a ton of extra control over when those tokens get generated, plus, it’s one less mana, and is on a 2/1 body that can be swinging early and chump blocking late once you’ve gotten your use from it. It’s crazy every time I’ve played it. Play it more, it’s so good.
I don't even want to take off turn 4 to play an annointed procession, so I see the argument in Other Taj...but on the other hand big stacks of tokens pour serotonin directly into my brain.
10:30 Big distinction between lotho and monologue tax is lotho is any player, not just opponents effectively increasing the power of the card by 33% while being one mana cheaper. If monologue tax isn't good, figuring out why it isn't good is important. If its not good because the effect is over costed, Lotho makes it better. If its not good because the effect isn't powerful enough, Lotho makes it better. Etc.
On top of this comparing it to other 2 mana ramp; if it makes more than a single treasure in a turn cycle it outpaces pretty much every other card at that slot besides Bloom Tender. You guys also bring up power level a lot when discussing the card but at what power level do players not play 2 spells a turn past turn 5? Precons play 2 spells or more before turn 5.
I love Hoarding Broodlord in my Kaalia deck, cheat it out, and then get a free spell to play from exile
I play Hoarding Broodlord in my Rivaz of the Claw deck and I have all the low cost dragon cost reducers to tap for the convoke cost. Between them and Rivaz I can cast it on turn 4 or five reliably.
I actually run Transcendent Message in my Ovika deck. While I agree that quad-u is a steep price. I must say that if I'm casting it, I am winning the game on that turn. And that's because I also run City on Fire.
I'm pretty sure cEDH is propping up hoarding broodlord. You cast saw in half on it then search a two card win con, or draw your deck with peer into the abyss.
Delighted Halfling is a card that I knew would have a home in the format forever and likely won't get many if any reprints. I bought a dozen for $5-$7 dollars and expect they'll be worth $30+ in a few years.
Is it possible to attack with creatures then tap them after blocks are declared and still do damage? Could that be a window to cast transcendent message? Just curious about this as a possible option.
Never had an issue with Transcendent Message in my Ovika deck, it's amazing.
Ok, my play group must just do things differently...staff of domination wouldn't be that good in any of my decks. It takes too much mana. Staff of compleation, however, slots into a mana accel slot for certain decks. Granted, if you won't use the proliferate ability, you shouldn't play the card, but any infect, super friends, or +1/+1 counters deck would be hard pressed to find something better. First, it replaced itself the turn you play it (and can draw additional cards if you don't need anything else later, then it ramp/fixes your mana if you need, THEN you get to proliferate... multiple times!
It may not be the best at doing any one thing it does, but it can so easily switch to any of those options to do whatever you need each turn.
staff of domination is a common outlet for infinite mana
hoarding broodlord is a 1 mana win the game card in mono black, that's one reason it sees play over moonshaker which needs setup. Also as said before Lotho is really good, for one it triggers if you play 2 spells in a turn when monologue does not. If people are drawing cards they're going to be playing cards, so you end up getting as much mana as a dockside would in many situations and its cheap so it's unlikely to be removed. The fact that you all can miss what makes cards good is astonishing, sure not every game is Cedh but most commander game involves people trying to win the game and not durdley nonsense piles. People usually are looking to find marginal upgrades to their decks and that leads to higher powered tables over time. Cards like Delighted halfling are amazing, its the best mana dork printed since birds of paradise why wouldn't you play it if you have it especially if you are replacing a $.25 card.
Hoarding broodlord my beloved... Ok to be fair, I think broodlord's last line of text and creature type are a trap, You don't run it in a cast from exile deck, and probably not in most dragon decks. Hoarding broodlord is much more of an upgraded rune-scarred demon that truly shines in go-wide or reanimator decks: on top of hitting a bit harder it enhances the card you tutor for. It's an evasive flyer that hits like a freight train and gets you whatever answer you need while also making that answer easier to cast potentially as soon as it hits with the added upside that casting it rather than reanimating it isn't the biggest ask thanks to convoke. If you have one other creature, it can even grab and immediately convoke a reanimate, or maybe you have a great board state and you grab a protection spell or counterspell that you can convoke in response to a wipe, or maybe it's a desperate situation and you need that wrath ASAP or are just grabbing darkness which you can convoke off of broodlord alone, or maybe you're feeling a bit gutsy and you grab an X spell finisher to obliterate all your opponents next turn. All this on top of the fact that you can bluff with it: your opponents now know that you have the perfect answer and they're not safe even if you're tapped out.
Overall, broodlord is a very potent budget top-end. It gets you an answer when you're behind, protection when you're ahead, and gas when you're in neutral all wrapped up in a big flyer, and the added convoke on the tutored card makes it feel like you've got an ace up your sleeve. Sure, trying to use this as a cast from exile matters card is a fool's errand (though it's nice when it incidentally comes up, like if you have some madness cards in your discard-fueled reanimator or if you're tutoring and slamming delayed blast fireball), and it's not great in dragons, but it's an all-star in my raffine reanimator deck. I agree that a lot of people overrate it for the wrong reasons, but to say it doesn't have a home is underrating just how potent this effect and statline is.
Hoarding Broodlord is a better Rune-Scarres Demon when the demon creature type doesn't matter. It IS still a big flying tutor that also protects the tutored card from discard and offers a path to cost reduction. It's super solid. The best? No. But if you are tutor creature hungry it has plenty of 'overs'
only got to up to 17:24 in the video but regarding matt's opinion on the card falling flat and not meeting expectations, i think the card emulates the flavor of the staff well enough with the variety of options with the lack of built -in untapping, which if the only shortcoming of the card is power i think thats perfectly fine, its cool to have a weaker, more incremental but different staff of domination as it lets lower power level tables have the same vibe as the cool card without the power. Ive put completion personally in 4 of my decks vs the 0 due to simply how strong staff is and it doesnt fit the vibe of my meta. I feel like there are a lot of cards where, its just i wish i could casually run this, and they make a slightly different but weaker version of it that fits what im looking for. I personally would like more cards like staff of completion and less like domination
Hoarding Broodlord is a reanimate strategy in higher power with spells like Saw in Half.
Hoarding Broodlord is a combo card with Saw in Half. It is also a very good reanimation target in general.
As a 3 mana rock that taps for any color and has upside in proliferate AND card draw? If you have a 3 mana rock in a slot it's an upgrade over it probably 90% of the time, and I'd say it's an upgrade to things like mind stone in the 2 mana slot.
Your mint mobile add was immediately preceeded by a mint mobile add on the add break stop.... lol
1:00:32 Dana and Matt steal the stats, Joey keeps 'em on track. Pretty savage transition there, Joey 😊
In reference to ojer taq. I think there is a big mistake being made. Tripling a bunch of little 1/1s I can agree it doesn't make much sense. Where I think ojer taq gets it power from is being in command zone AND the big tokens. Imagine a tiamat/ur dragon deck. You get out ojer and mirrym. Now you're getting 4 copies of a big dragon. 4 klauths. 4 scion of draco. Etc.
Breach is like Black Etali.
You could literally see Joey thinking Dana is wilding about Breach the Multiverse, that card is absurd.
Dana’s argument that you don’t wanna fill your opponent’s graveyards is true but Breach is so swingy it often doesn’t matter? Like even against someone like Joey, Breach is absurd because he is exactly the player to have haymakers. Do I care if I give him some reanimation targets if I get the best one?
Lotho's a really good card. Crazy take.
Breach is an amazing card. "oh no, my opponents now have cards in the yard...." but you have 4 new permanents. Not a good take. Rise of the Dark Realms NEEDS a full yard. Breach doesn't.
Delighted Halfling's VALUE is because of other formats, not EDH.
matt with the dad joke of the year and it's only February!
DAMN GOOD JOKE DANA!!!
I love lotho in my deck. But it's a 5 color party deck with 2 multicolor matters cards
Breach the multiverse is a really good card at power level 5-8 in my opinion. At power lvl precon can basically win the game if your opponents dont board wipe. And his price on market is relatively low. Also, if you play self-mill i think it adds up too much value. The only downside is if an opponent is doing graveyard shenanigans but I dont think that has enough weight to call it overrated.
Ojer Taq seems like just a win-more card for me. I use Mondrak in my Kykar deck as a money printer whenever I cast something. Taq seems too narrow since she triples >>only
raiyuu is decent in isshin decks that have warriors or samurai that have good attack triggers or vigilance enablers which is something I find myself running a lot in isshin because extra combats often only untap the one time.
While I understand what they are saying about making things uncounterable and sure maybe it doesn't affect as many games as we would hope. You also won't typically know if it did anything. Because the player with a counterspell isn't gonna go "dang I can't counter it now" and basically tell everyone they have a counterspell.
How would you know whether cavern of souls has saved you or not? Your opponent isn't likely to let you know they have a counter spell in hand.
I have straight won games casting breach or lost to opponents casting breach. The card is very good.
Also the broodlord take is fiery garbage. If you’re paying 8 mana for it, I don’t think you’re doing it right. Card sees cEDH play on top of that and pretty much wins on the spot.
Real talk, Reverse the polarity in a Narset Enlightened Master deck is an absolute house.
Hoarding broodlord into saw in half into thoracle combo