i love these under the hood streams SO much, i remember the one that Liam did a few years ago, and it was SO fascinating to watch, since i'm learning programming. Love the game, love you guys, everything surrounding you is perefect
Just watched that one from Liam it is very insightful indeed. Seems to me that is h9ow logic was done before Logic and gadgets were implemented. He was actually teaching us how to do behavior in Dreams using Visual Studio and C++
This is exactly what I've been wanting to see. I love Alex talking about all the nonsense he had to deal with to get the engine working. However, I'll come back later for 720p ;) Protip: Schedule the uploads for publication 1 or 2 hours after uploading so that TH-cam gets time to process them. This is an option when you're uploading.
Thanks for doing another one of these streams! There are so few resources like this, particularly for games made by large studios, outside of GDC talks. Getting a look at the imgui debug menus and some bits of code and logger output is fascinating and enlightening.
My favorite stream yet! And I didn’t understand 90% of what was happening. Really shows you how much work has gone into Dreams, all to make it as simple and seamless to the player.
Clicked so fast when I saw Alex's name in the title. Immediately brought me back to LBP2 E3 trailer. You've been my favorite developer since then, thanks Alex.
It should be easy to give the player thermo control so they can lower some to raise others, also it would be possible for a level that is hitting a limit to still work by having these sperate profiles of thermos. They simply won't have the extra thermo in the other aspects until they back off their current max.
This was very interesting and so cool to learn a little bit about how it all works. Also very happy to hear that they will work on increasing the persistent variable limit. Thanks MM!
I am guessing the spray tool effect the pages and the tint tool effects the things then? One thing that confused me for ages was why the spray wasn't working and it's because the tint hiding it. It wasn't very intuitive.
This was an awesome stream! Glad I stuck through it all because it's actually insanely helpful to know how the engine works when creating Dreams (or maps or whatever they're called now). I'd love to see coding streams in the future!
@Media Molecule but the biggest question is why is only 1GB available on the internal memory? Will this increase in future updates because i can´t build any more levels and i don´t want to delete my old ones? By the way, this is very, very nice and interesting, please more of these videos!!!
I don't see why there would be a paint thermometer seeing as how even if you don't paint anything that which you put down will have a color to it of its own, so painting it would just be changing the color it started at to different color.
I was wondering, what if you set it up so everything in the creation that is not visible and or not being utilized by the player is compressed information and then it just quickly uncompresses it as needed and re compresses other stuff you've walked away from and is out of view and or not being utilized. This way the overall creation could be more detailed and in actuality be comprised of way more bits of info. :D
Rather late, but is a ThingRef just an unsigned integer ID, or does it contain more information, and is it perhaps a pointer or C++ reference type? Where is "dest_thingidx" stored then?
Sounds like everyother person explaining anything ever important to me.... Things are made of things, there are things, thats a thing. TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES stripy socks TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES veil of TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES things things things things.... And they have all been geniuses and lecturers!!!!!! TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES
I wonder how you delete the connections when a Thing gets deleted if you only store connections sorted by increasing destination ... and how you get the evaluation order of Things if they don't have connections? hmm
I think templates would help creations out infinitely more than the from scratch style you have now. All different Planes,cars, boats etc all control the same basic way. With general little tweeks in terms of weight, speed etc... So just a stamp on control microchip would transform the game making process. What's frustrating for me is I'll make an object then struggle to even make those objects move and control in a simple way. Needlessly fiddly, finicky and complexity make it a baffling and frustrating time, which let's be honest when you've limited time on a PS4 that's not how you want to spend your downtime. So think about ways to streamline and make the game creation section more inclusive
Can someone explain the thermo saving tip please. Did he just make it so instead of 50 chips with emitters there was only 1? Explain like I’m 5 please lol
I assume you're talking about the tip around the 55 minute mark? They simply reduced the number of assets in the game. An emitter basically makes a copy of the object you want it to emit and then throws it out in the world, correct? So if you have 50 blocks that all emit the same explosion animation, it saves thermo if all 50 blocks copy from just 1 source rather than from 50 identical sources. Who knew reduce, reuse, recycle had applications in programming 😜
Why was dreams not created for the PC? Much of the interface and creation tools look to be better suited for a mouse and keyboard than a play station, or any console controller. And would not PCs have Much more memory resources and greater graphics GPU and CPU capability to over come the limitations like memory and frame rates mentioned here. Is dreams a game, or a game or creation engine ? I have just discovered this Dreams thing and have seen some of the creations made with it, and would like to use it to create some fully interactive worlds of varying artwork myself. If only it was available for the PC.
That's a good question. I'm also curious, as I know that bool is probably better for optimising the game, as you're giving the compiler a guarantee that it will only be true or false (1bit value), while u8 is telling the compiler it could be any 8bit value. While it doesn't sound like much, the benefits might add up substantially for a UGC game like dreams. I'm not certain but I think boolean comparisons are also faster than integer comparisons on the CPU.
The exact size of a boolean is compiler specific but will always be at least one byte. Most CPUs still include instructions that make a designated boolean comparison faster, but that was more important back in the day with 386/486 processors with limited cache. Perhaps they coalesce the booleans later and perform bitwise operations when they check for a boolean value?
@@MossyMos the ps4's cpu is considered quite weak by today's standards and doesn't even have L3 cache (if you compare Jaguar found in ps4 or athlon am1 platform with something like Zen+ we're talking about at least a 50% ipc difference, likely much more than that actually as the 50% ipc number was from vishera to zen1, and vishera is newer than jaguar). When you factor in that by default, dreams makes copies of things rather than references (as shown in the video), these small differences could infact add up rather quickly.
@@TheOz1999 I am just going by what I remember. Besides the 386/486 CPUs would look in envy upon the cache in the PS4's AMD CPU. I am not sure where in the video this appeared, but I am pretty sure they have a good reason for casting a boolean as an unsigned integer. Take care.
As a programmer, I found this SO GOOD to watch. You folks are wizards
i love these under the hood streams SO much, i remember the one that Liam did a few years ago, and it was SO fascinating to watch, since i'm learning programming. Love the game, love you guys, everything surrounding you is perefect
Just watched that one from Liam it is very insightful indeed. Seems to me that is h9ow logic was done before Logic and gadgets were implemented. He was actually teaching us how to do behavior in Dreams using Visual Studio and C++
Turtles, unicorns & things...all makes perfect sense...also Alex made it the whole way through without swearing once, amazing
52:55 & 55:40 = TIPS & TRICKS - Optimising tricks.
This is exactly what I've been wanting to see. I love Alex talking about all the nonsense he had to deal with to get the engine working.
However, I'll come back later for 720p ;)
Protip: Schedule the uploads for publication 1 or 2 hours after uploading so that TH-cam gets time to process them. This is an option when you're uploading.
“I’m gonna assume that atoms and sand are pretty solid”
God: I’m going to ruin this man’s career
50:48 Has a true pro tip on how to massively reduce gameplay thermo of an exploding object.
Thanks for pointing this out. Makes so much sense!
Think I might get a PS4 just for this game.
Looks sick, and I really enjoyed LBP2 editor on the PS3
Definitely more technical streams with Alex and Liam.
Their Learning From Failure SIGGRAPH talk is one of my all-time favorites.
Who can dislike this? Thanks, MM, for sharing this with us!
Thanks for doing another one of these streams! There are so few resources like this, particularly for games made by large studios, outside of GDC talks. Getting a look at the imgui debug menus and some bits of code and logger output is fascinating and enlightening.
My favorite stream yet! And I didn’t understand 90% of what was happening. Really shows you how much work has gone into Dreams, all to make it as simple and seamless to the player.
You always begin with atoms, also @20:47 murder capital sirens.
19:48 "I didn't know that, until... I learned" - Alex Evans
This is such an underrated video. It's like the holy grail for early programmers!
Clicked so fast when I saw Alex's name in the title.
Immediately brought me back to LBP2 E3 trailer. You've been my favorite developer since then, thanks Alex.
This was so great! Love listening to Liam and Alex break down the technical stuff, I'll watch any future streams you decide to do! :)
SO Pages is just Marvin.
SO Pages: Here I am, header the size of a planet, and I’m being asked to glue shapes together.
Please do more that emitter tip was brilliant !
It should be easy to give the player thermo control so they can lower some to raise others, also it would be possible for a level that is hitting a limit to still work by having these sperate profiles of thermos. They simply won't have the extra thermo in the other aspects until they back off their current max.
This was very interesting and so cool to learn a little bit about how it all works. Also very happy to hear that they will work on increasing the persistent variable limit. Thanks MM!
He is ridiculous good at explaining things
I am guessing the spray tool effect the pages and the tint tool effects the things then? One thing that confused me for ages was why the spray wasn't working and it's because the tint hiding it. It wasn't very intuitive.
OwtDaftUK yep, the tint tool basically spray paints the whole thing a color. Using hue if possible is better for after the fact color changes
I'm guessing that adjusting the tint or hue is cheaper on the thermo than using the spray paint tool. But I'm just guessing.
SkemeKOS I think you’re right, since sculpture detail also lowers spray detail
This was an awesome stream! Glad I stuck through it all because it's actually insanely helpful to know how the engine works when creating Dreams (or maps or whatever they're called now). I'd love to see coding streams in the future!
@Media Molecule but the biggest question is why is only 1GB available on the internal memory?
Will this increase in future updates because i can´t build any more levels and i don´t want to delete my old ones?
By the way, this is very, very nice and interesting,
please more of these videos!!!
PIXELTUNER you can delete old versions of creations that are saved on your hard drive to save a ton of space
I assume Sony have rules about how much data can be stored as save data.
That was a solid shoutout to John Greens book! Turtles all the way down
DFTBA
PatrickAllenNL John Green didn't coin the phrase. It's an old expression of unknown orgin.
Loved this
what a funny, yet informative video! i like it! teached me a lot about this engine
This is dope, keep these coming
I don't see why there would be a paint thermometer seeing as how even if you don't paint anything that which you put down will have a color to it of its own, so painting it would just be changing the color it started at to different color.
I was wondering, what if you set it up so everything in the creation that is not visible and or not being utilized by the player is compressed information and then it just quickly uncompresses it as needed and re compresses other stuff you've walked away from and is out of view and or not being utilized. This way the overall creation could be more detailed and in actuality be comprised of way more bits of info. :D
wow! that was very insightful thanks Mm!
Very interesting stream even though i dont play Dreams, more of this!
I'm more an Atom's Sand expert myself.
Super cool & interesting stuff and u guys are awesome!
Love the stream. Very informative...
Awesome. We still need more hidden features.
Rather late, but is a ThingRef just an unsigned integer ID, or does it contain more information, and is it perhaps a pointer or C++ reference type? Where is "dest_thingidx" stored then?
53:44 wow coulda helped a lot with my creations
Every stream is sirens :o
SO Pages sound like a character off the Mighty Booohooosh.
Dreams collision is balls.
Victor Cleemonts I found it to be quiet accurate. You have to fiddle with the settings in some cases but I haven’t had a single issue with detection
@@dreadthefeds 'twas a pun. The video explains how collision is made up of tiny spheres the developers call balls. Collision in Dreams works well.
#Alexisthebest
Sounds like everyother person explaining anything ever important to me.... Things are made of things, there are things, thats a thing. TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES stripy socks TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES veil of TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES things things things things.... And they have all been geniuses and lecturers!!!!!! TURTLES TURTLES TURTLES
Did Alex ever do that hobby project stream he mentions at 1:14:55?
My favorite change was SR_REMOVE_SHIT #55
I'm the 960'th viewer and I'm the 96'th person to like the video.
Coincidence?
*I THINK NOT!*
I do believe that means that you are the Chosen One. And by that I of course mean the Antichrist😉
Wow. Just wow :)
1:07:49 could you not just transfer the input recordings raw data into the new version of Dreams to test the same bug?
Oh no ive gone cross-eyed
I wonder how you delete the connections when a Thing gets deleted if you only store connections sorted by increasing destination ... and how you get the evaluation order of Things if they don't have connections? hmm
❣️Enlightening 🤟
Why use a u8 instead of a bool? Is it because u8 is shorter to write?
I think templates would help creations out infinitely more than the from scratch style you have now.
All different Planes,cars, boats etc all control the same basic way. With general little tweeks in terms of weight, speed etc...
So just a stamp on control microchip would transform the game making process.
What's frustrating for me is I'll make an object then struggle to even make those objects move and control in a simple way.
Needlessly fiddly, finicky and complexity make it a baffling and frustrating time, which let's be honest when you've limited time on a PS4 that's not how you want to spend your downtime.
So think about ways to streamline and make the game creation section more inclusive
Awesome : )
The real LittleBigPlanet 3.
Can someone explain the thermo saving tip please. Did he just make it so instead of 50 chips with emitters there was only 1? Explain like I’m 5 please lol
I assume you're talking about the tip around the 55 minute mark?
They simply reduced the number of assets in the game. An emitter basically makes a copy of the object you want it to emit and then throws it out in the world, correct?
So if you have 50 blocks that all emit the same explosion animation, it saves thermo if all 50 blocks copy from just 1 source rather than from 50 identical sources.
Who knew reduce, reuse, recycle had applications in programming 😜
Why was dreams not created for the PC? Much of the interface and creation tools look to be better suited for a mouse and keyboard than a play station, or any console controller.
And would not PCs have Much more memory resources and greater graphics GPU and CPU capability to over come the limitations like memory and frame rates mentioned here.
Is dreams a game, or a game or creation engine ? I have just discovered this Dreams thing and have seen some of the creations made with it, and would like to use it to create some fully interactive worlds of varying artwork myself. If only it was available for the PC.
Are you able to make puppets drive vehicles
A fellow leftie. We're few and far between.
Can you have more things if you spread them far apart from each other?
WTH Dreams code is really actually made up of "Things"!!!!? MM Technical term "Things" TM
@1:14:02 line 155 😂
to much 🤘
Dreams
Game or Software? o - o
All video games are software
wait, Dreams is written in C?
edit: nvm lol
Right? I assumed it was JavaScript
mate
it wasn't an assumption
one of them mistakenly said that it's "C code"
The PC master race thinks you're all turtles.
Why use a u8 instead of a bool? Is it because u8 is shorter to write?
That's a good question. I'm also curious, as I know that bool is probably better for optimising the game, as you're giving the compiler a guarantee that it will only be true or false (1bit value), while u8 is telling the compiler it could be any 8bit value. While it doesn't sound like much, the benefits might add up substantially for a UGC game like dreams.
I'm not certain but I think boolean comparisons are also faster than integer comparisons on the CPU.
The exact size of a boolean is compiler specific but will always be at least one byte. Most CPUs still include instructions that make a designated boolean comparison faster, but that was more important back in the day with 386/486 processors with limited cache.
Perhaps they coalesce the booleans later and perform bitwise operations when they check for a boolean value?
@@MossyMos the ps4's cpu is considered quite weak by today's standards and doesn't even have L3 cache (if you compare Jaguar found in ps4 or athlon am1 platform with something like Zen+ we're talking about at least a 50% ipc difference, likely much more than that actually as the 50% ipc number was from vishera to zen1, and vishera is newer than jaguar). When you factor in that by default, dreams makes copies of things rather than references (as shown in the video), these small differences could infact add up rather quickly.
@@TheOz1999 I am just going by what I remember. Besides the 386/486 CPUs would look in envy upon the cache in the PS4's AMD CPU.
I am not sure where in the video this appeared, but I am pretty sure they have a good reason for casting a boolean as an unsigned integer.
Take care.
MossyMos This was discussed at 25:55