OUR ICE MACHINES ARE DOWN AND WE NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE HURRY
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- So this is a pretty typical call for me , both machines were down and of course it was an emergency... But in reality one machine had been down for a long time and they didn't realize until the second one went down.
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I'm still surprised that more SOCAL restaurants aren't forced to filter their water for calcium and other metals. They already tell you where you're allowed to fart.
I'm not a hvac tech but I helped a few, watched a few over the past 43 years. I picked up a little. I worked at a bakery and we used ALOT of ice in the summer to keep dough cool. The one place I worked for 27 years Never had a ice machine properly cleaned. I cleaned them. Watching your videos I learned why our hoshisaki machines never worked right. The guy who installed them and serviced them obviously either couldn't get the right parts or didn't know what he was doing. Water feed lines not large enough. Waterfeed valve not the right ones. Etc etc. Never hire the cheapest tech. Hire the right tech, pay him what he's worth. You will save money in the long run. The money they wasted on junk ice machines and keeping them barely working, they could have got a couple new machines and had them for years almost trouble free.
at 3:14 you can see where the rats have been eating the foam insulation.. They probably ate that shredded wire too.
Last year I had to do board level repair on one of those style Manitowoc boards because of the supply shortage. It had an intermittent fill water valve relay causing all kinds of crazy errors. The relays are actually fairly cheap and only takes me about 10 minutes to change out and recoat with conformal to keep everything water resistant. It turns out Manitowoc went a little cheap with the relays they used in 2015 to 2019 boards to save a buck instead of sticking with genuine Omron relays. I would offer to do a board repair for you, but I hardly have time to eat, sleep, and poo. 😅
What do you use as conformal coating after you finish the repair?
@@CoolerQ You can get it in a spray can EX: MG-Chermicals 422B-340G You can also you uv cure resin or nail polish as well, for small spots. Relays are big enof though you can probably leave it uncoated, as the spacing(creepage) is normally way more than required. Its the small resistors and ICs that the conformal coating is really for, because condensation issues between small pins.
@@CoolerQ I use MG Chemicals 422C since the area I'm working on is very small by comparison and it's about the same texture as the coating they use from factory.
Board repairs are really easy. And cheap. Problem is nobody "has the time" to do them, and most techs don't have that particular skill set.
liability and insurance is why nobody does that. also of skills/knowledge.
Even though i don't work on reefer equipment anymore....i still really enjoy these videos. It helps keep the knowledge from rattling around in the back of my noggin. Thanks for sharing Chris
I been doing residential for the pass 3 years. Next week im starting with a HVACR company wish me luck I think im ready i been watching your channel for 2 years
Did it suck going in people's houses and stuff? I imagine you see some filthy houses
I repair circuit boards for a living most likly its either the relay or relay drive ic for the dump valve . if the dump relay indicator led lights then most probably the relay
Sometimes the older boards get full of memory, had a tech support guy mention that. The new boards have larger memory storage. I have had to update boards before. Like you I have a stick that I keep up to date.
Cool video Chris.
We have a local supply house that carries Manitowoc parts, Partstown is not priority for Manitowoc.
Thanks to Partstown, I can get equipment parts for less than half the price my franchise owner has to pay.
One example: $750 boiler tank for a Schaerer espresso machine, or $1,700 through the "authorized" retailer that our tech is forced to buy from. And shipping doesn't take months like it does through the "authorized" source.
from the fryer sounds in the background... is this a mcdonald's?
"CHECK JIB"
Your the man.I like when you show all details in repair. 👍
Great video. Thank you for sharing.
3:45 That black wire looks like it goes to a connector on that board. Did you try reseating the board connector? Did you check the output at the board? Are there fuses on the board? Does the board have all its power supplies? Is it a bad relay on the board? Is the light on for the relay driver? You need to work on your electronics chops.
What do you do with the old boards?
I know TCRS Circuit is located in California and does a hell lot more than macbook repair. Maybe you can recover some
I also recently replaced a board. It was the harvest relay instead of dump valve relay.
I have seen when the pump burns the relay on board,from the lines being full of calcium.and the pump over amping.
For harvest suction is supposed to be 75 and up meaning the hot gas valve is working
Awesome video you make ice machines interesting
Question , where did you learn all this information on various equipments ( ice machine , a/c systems & refrigeration systems) you are so educated in this field you literally explain everything and I want to know if it’s a particular university that taught you or you can tell me what to do to gain so much knowledge in this field , I honestly look up to you because your explanations are down pack .
3 years ago I decided I wanted to do this full time. The guy I worked for told me he would not teach me anything, that I had to learn everything on my own. Simply because he didn’t have time. And to be honest in the last 3 years I have learned everything I learned from hands on mistakes and a lot of TH-cam’s. If this is a trade that you really want? You’re gonna have to put everything else to the side and teach yourself if you’re or trying to go to school for it.
Great video and diagnostics Chris!
I haven't seen those tech books for years -- I know who Im calling tomorrow... thanks for that -- I didn't know they still printed them
Worked at Cornelius. Ice cooled dispensers. Good old days
Great video. You broke it down perfect.
Don't condemn the board before checking the other components downstream of it. A bad component downstream could short or damage the board and if you did not check before replacing you'll damage the new board too.
i was hoping he would check the dump valve coil resistance.
He did say he checked thae coil. Big picture, though, right?
Thank you for videos they are very informative ❤
0:56 - Particulate filters mean two things when it comes to calcium: diddly and squat. There needs to be a descaling filter added after the particulate filters. It won't eliminate the problem, but it will help dramatically.
Of course, ice machines need scheduled cleaning... But this is 100% the wrong venue to make that lecture.
Good job Chris.
Hey they said please. That always helps.
That enable relays function seems like it would be a bad thing to turn everything on at the same time.
Pump on
Compressor on
Dump valve open
Inlet valve open
Condenser fan on
What other relay am I forgetting?
You should replace that USB drive, I’ve had 11 drives that look like that and sometimes there’s issues that cause data fail to read.
T3 and t4 are supposed to show 35 degrees meaning that hot gas is going through
Ice Ice HVACR 😁
If you attend a workshop they will give the books to you
Yummy black mold, have you ever try replacing the relay on the board?
Not worth it
@@Freonleon Untrue. When you're talking about the relay, that's a relatively inexpensive part to replace, and you can add conformal coating. It's worth doing so you have a low cost 'emergency replacement' board that you can put in while you wait for a factory replacement. I repaired the motherboard of a treadmill controller just a couple of weeks ago. Trying to replace it would mean another board with the same issues, and the only other choice would be to pay another 10 grand for a treadmill system for doppler mapping.
@@tbelding maybe in your world in hvac it’s not worth trying to source that relay and unsolder and re solder, get the board replace the board way more cost effective and efficient. Been doing this 15 years and never has it been easier, efficient or even a thought to try and source and replace those.
@@tbelding this isn’t a treadmill, and that board is more common than that treadmill board because people just replace the treadmill, there is no comparison in what your doing and that ice machine. They don’t sell them relays in kits and most hvac techs don’t spend any time soldering circuit boards.
@@Freonleon this comment here. This is the truth. And this is the problem. ' Most HVAC Techs don't.' 5 minutes soldering a relay and re- coating the board would save your customer $200. Be a little more open minded instead of selfish. It's not hard really. All the appliance "techs" I know are the same way. Throw away a $200 board because a 60¢ relay failed. Logic, right? This all comes down to training though, I'm sure. Remember those days of lore when technicians had to actually soldier copper pipes? Gasp.
Hi Chris! Is the old board still available? I'm interested in it for further diagnostics, I want to know it is has been damaged by the short from this strange melted wire which maybe was going to the T sensor.
Hi Chris, great content and very informative. The failed firmware update is likely due to a problem with the flash drive. The problem is that flash memory such as USB flash drives was never intended to store data for any real length of time: It was only ever intended as a means to transfer information from one device to another, not for archiving data. As such, over time they develop what is known as 'bit rot' where the cells either fail to read or, potentially much more serious, data becomes corrupted but still readable. Better systems have basic error checking that will recognise bad data and some can correct it, but some systems will just accept the bad data and try to execute it as valid data or simply 'brick' the system and render it totally inoperable requiring specialist equipment to bring it back to life, assuming the data error did not cause hardware failure.
From my personal experience of flashing a lot of firmwares over many years I recommend the following for a minimise the chance of any problems arising:
- If the flash drive came from a manufacturer with data already on it, run a file system checker or analysis tool on it, ideally from the command line, that can refresh the memory cells on the flash storage so it reads properly and is more likely to be read correctly if the drive is put to one side for a while.
- If you're creating a flash drive yourself for a system then always perform a full format and never a quick format because a full format refreshes the entire structure of the drive which helps protect from weaker memory cells on the flash drive.
- If, for example, you are using a Windows machine to copy data to or create a flash drive then always use the 'soft eject' function either from Explorer or by right-clicking the drive icon in the taskbar, rather that just pulling the drive out when it appears to have finished copying data. This tells Windows to flush any data to the drive from the internal cache and makes sure no files are left 'open'. (Personally, I use the Teracopy file copying utility because it bypasses the Windows internal cache, followed by soft-ejecting, and this has further improved reliability and data integrity.)
Have a pair of flash drives given out at annual training by local Manitowoc distributor, but have yet to use either of them.
Did not know about this issue with flash drives.
Wanted to add this
Older firmware updates over USB were often a disaster but most newer firmwares are signed, any corruption breaks this checksum and usually rejects the firmware(many are signed with pretty reliable hash algorithms). While this isn't industry standard it is rather common place for over 90% of still in use equipment.
Full formats DO NOT make a real difference, as with flash memory, it DOES NOT erase the entire structure of the drive. This is a very well known phenomena with solid state storage. A full format vs a quick format largely has no real difference to any user but a full format can dramatically increase flash drive wear, however minor it might in the grand scheme of things. Some drives have special utilities to make the controller "purge" all storage on the drive by erasing everything(secure erase) but for most purposes a quick format accomplishes the same exact thing, destroy the file table and its structure.
A quick dive, because the controller stores block info certain, if certain blocks are already empty, the controller may write to other blocks instead of all of them first as part of its "wear level" algorithm. you cannot like a rotating disk expect a sector to be always physically in the same place because flash controllers remap regularly by design, even editing an existing file will likely remap it to a whole new place on the drive even though the logical sector stays the same. if you actually wanted to erase everything you would have to use a tool that tells a controller to flush all the blocks or simply write data till the device is fully using actually data(some controllers know that if they receive a write of all zero's to simply mark the block as "free" and completely skip the writing process to prevent drive wear). I suggest reading up on how flash memory actually works at the hardware level because its super weird compared to spinners which are still kinda crazy at the hardware level.
The second thing I wanted to bring up is soft ejecting on most any modern flashdrive isn't exactly needed and that is because, if you read microsofts papers on this for example, quick removal devices by default have write buffers explicitly turned off. Microsoft specifically goes to length to say this is for convenience since the apparent speed increase of short burst writes doesn't help the end user since the write must be complete anyways before ejection so for most people removeable drives don't use write cache buffers so they don't also need to be safely ejected(even according to microsoft), however you can actually enable this on drives which requires use of the safe ejection function. Its done from device manager under disk drives and then the policies tab . With external HHD's and not flashdrives, ejecting may have the added benefit of spinning down the drive before its unplugged(although most drives especially 2.5's used as external do park the heads when not in use instead of flying over the data areas so it shouldn't be of major concern)
You should update firmware on second ice machine motherboard before ordering new one.
Costco use manitowoc ice machines in there food court on top of the soda fountains
I'm not a Hvac or hvacr engineer but learned lots from these videos..... Do you have any idea how the terminology or systems convert to Europe or even the UK?
Practically the same stuff just at 50hz instead of 60hz
Very interesting.
May I ask why you recovered from only two ports on this machine?
If you Enable all relays at the board than it opens all the solenoids so you can just use two ports than
Willing to bet that one of those relays on the board is what controls the valve. Those relays are cheap, and don't take long to replace.
where can you get them ?
@@MariosACandRefrigeration You'd have to order them from one of the big electronics supply companies.
Well, for 100$ a book, I‘d get the pdf and have a print shop print and bind it for me 😉
Not worth when price is 20$ unless for some reason your supplier won’t get them
I bet this place got a power surge or brownout. It fubared one board and may have fuzzed out the other and the firmware update rebooted the board and cleared the error. Explains your weird download error too.
The sensor wire and insulation look gnawed on.
03:14 look at the Sensor Block. Some one was Hungry. HAHAHAHAH
That foam insulation was well chewed!
Ice machines can be a real pain in the booty…. An 90% places do not do PM 😢
And from this comment and also watching this guy's videos on what restaurant ice machines look like, I've decided I'm never getting ice in my drinks at drive thrus ever again.
@@Patriot1776
🤣🤣🤣
It’s not so much “dirt” more like minerals calcium iron.. but granted it looks pretty nasty!! I have even thought the same thing you just thought when I walk into one, that is a complete disaster not all restaurants .. but a majority of them do not call you until their machine is not working.. but trust me, I’ve worked in the commercial end more than residential and the kitchens?? 🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮 that is until is time for their health department inspectors show up an then?? It’s like holy shit ITS CLEAN 😅😅
Man I love these manitowoc ice machine they’re the best
Nice chew marks on the padding.
Did a rodent chew on that piece of foam on that top line?
Looks like it took out that and the foam, maybe something else too.
Yes. And that wire that was broken near it.
and the bit flip is caused by low battery Yes so I would say Change it
When it comes to the USB flash drive. Do you purchase that from Manitowoc?
You get them at service classes usually, manitowoc will send them to you too if you end up dropping it and breaking it. Don’t ask me how I know that.😊
I got them sent to my email from manitowoc and loaded them on a drive myself. Problem is they say that it needs to be under a 2 gb flash drive and those are almost impossible to find nowadays.
Thanks.
@@holmgren04 I don't know if this helps but it's possible to repartition a larger drive such as a 4GB or 8GB to have a single 2GB partition on it. Partitions up to 2GB can use a simpler filesystem which, for various reasons, is probably why a lot of firmware updates need a 2GB-or-less drive.
@@DelticEngine Good idea I didnt even think of that.
Moldy ice machine with rodents in it? lol I'm never eating at a restaurant again.
😂😂 you have no idea…
If they had a water softener ,they would save a lot of money.
I hear McDonalds sounds
Dont guess restuarant names
Idk, every restaurant with frymasters sound like that
@@VoidsDemise5443 Guesses don't hurt. Confirmation _might_ hurt, but even that's unlikely. He doesn't give addresses.
Henny Penny machines all make that sound, not just mcdonalds use them
@2CentsBear you're right, it does sound like a henny penny.
What do you charge/ hr.?
The Left Machine had corrupted firmware it does happen by updating it you clear out the corrupted settings basically the board is failing it is having bit flip but by doing a update basically you reinstalling the OS and it knows what the correct settings are by default you just inputed the user settings the programing settings are what corrupted I had this happen with a Directv Stream Box I reset it to Factory its been fine ever sense then but basically a bit got flipped in software that's why
“Big Picture” troubleshooting.
We all know it was a mcdonalds from the sound ahaha
Don't guess restuarants.
@@VoidsDemise5443nerd
@@VoidsDemise5443 you must be trolling. Let people guess what they want. But did you die? smh
mouse or rat is chewing on that foam piece lol
2:54 I KNOW THAT SOUND
48 thumbs up
🛻
First
Distilled water doesn't have minerals. 😉
It'd be nice but, it uses city tap water that's filtered.
Distilled water will want to balance itself out, so it would start leeching the alloys from the machine and piping. No bueno.
Distilled water doesn't come from city taps. And there's no way to justify the cost of installing distilling equipment just to skip on regular preventive maintenance.