The Knock out city thing bit about handicapping the winning player reminded me where it is done masterfully. in Supergiant Games's Pyre, it's a external apparent mechanic (sorry, forgot the actual term), with in-game explanation, where the team that scores has to play the next round missing a player (there are ways to circumvent this, but it's an advanced mechanic). This game is masterfully designed, you guys should give it a look
On the subject of "Manufactured Ludonarratives in competitive multiplayer games", the most common form manifests as comeback mechanics, and most competitive communities are very much split on them. In many fighting games, you often have this manifest in the form of granting the player additional Super meter when they're close to losing a match. Street Fighter IV did this with the Ultra Combo meter, which filled exclusively by blocking hits and taking damage. Tekken 7 puts the player into a Rage state at 20% HP, which grants them bonus damage and powerful attacks. SoulCalibur VI gives the player a free bar of meter when they're one round away from losing the match. What I've noticed is that players hate when a game gives you the comeback mechanic in the middle of a round, as in the first two examples with SF4 and Tekken 7, because it breaks the flow of the match and forces them to change up their strategies to avoid instantly losing a round when they were just winning from pressing their advantage. However, SoulCalibur VI rarely gets people talking about how it grants that bonus meter at the start of the player's final round, and I theorize that sort of comeback mechanic doesn't bother players quite as much due to how it doesn't threaten to shift the flow of gameplay when both players are already in the middle of interacting with one another. Super Smash Brothers has the "Rage" mechanic, where you start dealing subtly more damage and knockback based on how much damage you've taken. Many competitive players are quite unhappy with this implementation of a comeback mechanic as it adds too much complexity to a game that's already hard to play well, because this bonus comeback damage not only makes it so that the losing player can suddenly KO the winning player in situations where it shouldn't normally happen- it makes it so that combos that players learned to perform when the enemy is at low percents simply no longer function, effectively punishing both players if the winning player isn't securing KOs fast enough. Manufactured ludonarrative also appears in competitive FPS games, but instead of being comeback mechanics, they manifest (primarily on consoles) by giving players much more leniency in how far off players are able to aim while still landing shots. This is generally known as "aim assist", or "bullet magnets", and the Halo franchise is a very strong example of this concept in action, especially with the Master Chief Collection on PC, where both Controller and Mouse/Keyboard players can compete together. On consoles, nobody really pays it any mind and most console players aren't even aware their shots are being guided to their targets, but on the more mixed input environment of PC, this leniency system has caused many competitive PC FPS players to switch to traditional gamepads as the high Time to Kill in Halo means that Mouse players are always at a disadvantage against Controller players as the Controller player will miss far fewer shots on average compared to the Mouse players (who don't have any assists whatsoever).
@@DesignDelve I'm not suscribed to The Escapist because I don't really like the content, but every week I search for that new episode ;) brilliant series, that one.
@@DesignDelve The importance of good sound design is a good one, though with your background I'm sure that will come up quite often. I liked the bit where you went into how narrative and gameplay can be intertwined, so maybe going into some deeper examples of that would be interesting. Dark Souls obviously comes to mind but I'm sure there are plenty of other games that do this well that I have never played before.
@@Xaeveax Great suggestions. Intertwining gameplay and narrative would be a really cool thing to talk about. I mostly brought that up because it's a realization I had about my own game that everything (narrative, gameplay, aesthetics etc.) can all serve the same central theme, and that we can link every aspect of other games together by figuring out what that central theme is. I'm sure the sound design talk is coming, JM8 was a professional sound designer in the past, I'm just a musician and composer (once it's in the DAW I'm totally lost) I think we're mostly gonna focus on game design specifically, at least for the first few episodes, but some discussion about different aspects of game production is sure to come up
Now I need to know the story behind your first meeting - more banter pls thanks. Another 10/10 idea for this channel, I can't wait to see more of this GDDT content
Hello jm8, sorry it's unrelated but could you consider the following: th-cam.com/video/Pler0u9ex_U/w-d-xo.html If you watch at 0:08 (8 seconds in the video) this beautiful blue render is actually a SONY's PSP, I checked with the original pictures of a PSP model everything correspond. For a qualcomm SoC for the future of gaming isn't that really odd ? Since they revealed earlier a dev kit built with Razer that doesn't look like this. Now it's no confirmation that Sony is reviving its handheld console, but wouldn't there be some copyright issue here at least ? And if Sony is indeed about to reveal a new PS portable system or gaming oriented phone (film and photography enthusiasts are covered with the Xperia Pro and Pro-I) wouldn't this be a little leak about it ? Imagine a Sony Xperia Pro-G powered by this Snapdragon. With integrated and proprietary PS5 and 4 app for streaming and remote play, cloud gaming -Sony has already released sub6 and 5mm 5g phones. Most telling of all, even with the PS5 almost 2 years old now, the latest SONY's flagship only supported DUALSHOCK 4 controllers, not the PS5 DualSense. About to change ? Anyway missed your videos posts for quite some time, yt is weird with some channels one is subscribed to but on the other hand lots of content to catch on ! Thank you, keep up the tremendously good work !
Yea it might be a weird asset they’ve used that looks similar and they may run into copyright problems. OR they are working on a new handheld with Sony and that might be odd… super glad you’re enjoying the content bud!
The Knock out city thing bit about handicapping the winning player reminded me where it is done masterfully. in Supergiant Games's Pyre, it's a external apparent mechanic (sorry, forgot the actual term), with in-game explanation, where the team that scores has to play the next round missing a player (there are ways to circumvent this, but it's an advanced mechanic). This game is masterfully designed, you guys should give it a look
Wonderful example bud thank you for sharing! I really need to delve into that game…
late to the party but really enjoying the podcast! looking forward to episode 1!
Super glad you’re enjoying it boss! Episode 1 coming soon!
On the subject of "Manufactured Ludonarratives in competitive multiplayer games", the most common form manifests as comeback mechanics, and most competitive communities are very much split on them.
In many fighting games, you often have this manifest in the form of granting the player additional Super meter when they're close to losing a match. Street Fighter IV did this with the Ultra Combo meter, which filled exclusively by blocking hits and taking damage. Tekken 7 puts the player into a Rage state at 20% HP, which grants them bonus damage and powerful attacks. SoulCalibur VI gives the player a free bar of meter when they're one round away from losing the match.
What I've noticed is that players hate when a game gives you the comeback mechanic in the middle of a round, as in the first two examples with SF4 and Tekken 7, because it breaks the flow of the match and forces them to change up their strategies to avoid instantly losing a round when they were just winning from pressing their advantage. However, SoulCalibur VI rarely gets people talking about how it grants that bonus meter at the start of the player's final round, and I theorize that sort of comeback mechanic doesn't bother players quite as much due to how it doesn't threaten to shift the flow of gameplay when both players are already in the middle of interacting with one another.
Super Smash Brothers has the "Rage" mechanic, where you start dealing subtly more damage and knockback based on how much damage you've taken. Many competitive players are quite unhappy with this implementation of a comeback mechanic as it adds too much complexity to a game that's already hard to play well, because this bonus comeback damage not only makes it so that the losing player can suddenly KO the winning player in situations where it shouldn't normally happen- it makes it so that combos that players learned to perform when the enemy is at low percents simply no longer function, effectively punishing both players if the winning player isn't securing KOs fast enough.
Manufactured ludonarrative also appears in competitive FPS games, but instead of being comeback mechanics, they manifest (primarily on consoles) by giving players much more leniency in how far off players are able to aim while still landing shots. This is generally known as "aim assist", or "bullet magnets", and the Halo franchise is a very strong example of this concept in action, especially with the Master Chief Collection on PC, where both Controller and Mouse/Keyboard players can compete together. On consoles, nobody really pays it any mind and most console players aren't even aware their shots are being guided to their targets, but on the more mixed input environment of PC, this leniency system has caused many competitive PC FPS players to switch to traditional gamepads as the high Time to Kill in Halo means that Mouse players are always at a disadvantage against Controller players as the Controller player will miss far fewer shots on average compared to the Mouse players (who don't have any assists whatsoever).
This is defiantly a topic we need to expand on! As always Airra thank you so much for your input you’re a goldmine of input!
1 hour video ? Lemme grab my 🍿
Might wanna get a drink for all that POPPED corn m8 👌
Finally some JM8. This is a good day ♡
Don’t forget about the new Anatomy Episodes over on The Escapist 💕
@@DesignDelve I'm not suscribed to The Escapist because I don't really like the content, but every week I search for that new episode ;) brilliant series, that one.
When a new one comes out I’ll make sure to link it on this channels feed so you can catch it bud 💕 I got you.
@@DesignDelve You're the best mate, man :D thanks!
amazing content!!! just love it!
Cheers bud 😁 I appreciate ya 💕
This is gonna be a good series. I'm a developer and it's always nice to get refreshers about these things. (As well as new ideas to wrestle with).
Super glad to hear this Alex 😁 any topic ideas you’d like to see us cover?
@@DesignDelve The importance of good sound design is a good one, though with your background I'm sure that will come up quite often. I liked the bit where you went into how narrative and gameplay can be intertwined, so maybe going into some deeper examples of that would be interesting. Dark Souls obviously comes to mind but I'm sure there are plenty of other games that do this well that I have never played before.
Wonderful suggestions bud! Keep an eye out for more coming soon 👀
@@Xaeveax Great suggestions. Intertwining gameplay and narrative would be a really cool thing to talk about. I mostly brought that up because it's a realization I had about my own game that everything (narrative, gameplay, aesthetics etc.) can all serve the same central theme, and that we can link every aspect of other games together by figuring out what that central theme is.
I'm sure the sound design talk is coming, JM8 was a professional sound designer in the past, I'm just a musician and composer (once it's in the DAW I'm totally lost)
I think we're mostly gonna focus on game design specifically, at least for the first few episodes, but some discussion about different aspects of game production is sure to come up
Now I need to know the story behind your first meeting - more banter pls thanks. Another 10/10 idea for this channel, I can't wait to see more of this GDDT content
Darker please.
I'm surprised you haven't heard it before. I love that story
New JM8....#Blessings
Enjoy bud 💕
@@DesignDelve been a while brother. Hope you're good
Doing amazing Brother, hope you’re doing good too man!
@@DesignDelve I am fam
It felt really weird to have you mention me when talking about the unfinished ds script, loving the podcast so far dude can’t wait for ep 1
Get name dropped ;)
Hello jm8, sorry it's unrelated but could you consider the following: th-cam.com/video/Pler0u9ex_U/w-d-xo.html
If you watch at 0:08 (8 seconds in the video) this beautiful blue render is actually a SONY's PSP, I checked with the original pictures of a PSP model everything correspond. For a qualcomm SoC for the future of gaming isn't that really odd ? Since they revealed earlier a dev kit built with Razer that doesn't look like this.
Now it's no confirmation that Sony is reviving its handheld console, but wouldn't there be some copyright issue here at least ?
And if Sony is indeed about to reveal a new PS portable system or gaming oriented phone (film and photography enthusiasts are covered with the Xperia Pro and Pro-I) wouldn't this be a little leak about it ? Imagine a Sony Xperia Pro-G powered by this Snapdragon. With integrated and proprietary PS5 and 4 app for streaming and remote play, cloud gaming -Sony has already released sub6 and 5mm 5g phones. Most telling of all, even with the PS5 almost 2 years old now, the latest SONY's flagship only supported DUALSHOCK 4 controllers, not the PS5 DualSense. About to change ?
Anyway missed your videos posts for quite some time, yt is weird with some channels one is subscribed to but on the other hand lots of content to catch on !
Thank you, keep up the tremendously good work !
Yea it might be a weird asset they’ve used that looks similar and they may run into copyright problems. OR they are working on a new handheld with Sony and that might be odd… super glad you’re enjoying the content bud!