Enjoying your videos! I twitch when I see medals wrong in film and TV. Like on Ghosts where the ribbon bar was backwards. Not sure if an early error they then corrected with the story. Always nice plug for MASH, i think a video on Col Sherman potter could be interesting. Ex cavalryman turn doctor through WW1, WW2 and Korea with also going from non commissioned to commissioned. He wears his ribbons but has an old medal in a case on the wall in his office.
Greetings from South Korea! Great plug about Michael Caine being a Korean War veteran. Looking at the video again, his awards look like (in order) the Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal, the Korea Service Medal, the Armed Forces Reserve Medal and the UN Service Medal which also puts them in the correct order too. A Navy and Marine Corps Medal for an Army officer isn't unheard of, especially during the Korean War, but that would put him most likely in 10th (X) Corps, which had elements of the 1st Marine Division under it. Many Army and Marine medals flowed back and forth in X Corps, especially after the Chinese intervention.
@MrEKWesq it was the 40th Infantry Division patch that gave me a clue, but I was hoping some Navy-Marine awards were thrown in to have the discussion about X Corps.
@@ClaspsofCourage you're welcome! It's seemed to be a fairly common practice prior to the Vietnam War with a few high profile examples. The Army Air Corps pilot(s) who shot down Admiral Yamamoto were awarded Navy Crosses and the Navy PT Boat commander who evacuated GEN MacArthur from The Philippines received the Distinguished Service Cross.
I concur: The order of precedence is key, the Navy & Marine Corps Medal ranks above the Purple Heart AND the National Defense Service Medal ranks above the U.S. Korea medal. The U.S. Armed Forces Reserve medal does rank between the U.S. Korea Medal and the U.N. Medal (for the Korean War). Incidentally, the R.O.K. War Service Medal wasn't approved by the Pentagon until the year 2000 for wear by American veterans of the Korean War! None of whom we're still on Active Duty to enjoy the privilege!
In the “Young Indiana Jones Chronicles”, we see Indy in the Belgian Army during WW1, wearing the Belgian Croix de guerre and the French Medaille militaire.
It’s a purple heart, national defense, Korea service, a reserve medal (not army specific, there’s a catch all ribbon that look the same for all branches) and the United Nations Korea. He’s also entitled to the gold bordered Korea presidential unit citation. Also the foreign Korean War service metal that was established in the 90s. Donald Draper was a ROTC/officer reservist. He got called up for Korea. I just re-watched the show. lol
Another very interesting video! Have just bought and read through the 'Clasps of Courage' book. It is an excellent, thoroughly researched and well-written account of the Indian campaigns in Victorian times, well up to the high standard of the videos. I would thoroughly recommend the book to anyone interested in military history (and I am not being sponsred in any way to write this!) Well done Daniel!
National Defense isn’t really a gallantry medal , I have one and I was stateside my entire career, it’s more of the U.S. military’s equivalent of a participation award
The National Defense medal is correct for him being he served during a time of that conflict. Eligibility for the NDSM was expanded by executive orders issued in 1966 (EO 11265), 1991 (EO 12776) and 2003 (EO 13293).
Loving the videos mate. With it being King Charle's birthday, it made me think he might be an interesting candidate for one of your videos. Anyway, keep up the uploads!
@ Senior Drill Instructor, Gunnery Sergeant Vincent Carter is portrayed by Frank Sutton. According to my research Mr. Sutton served in the pacific with the US Army during WWII. Here’s one of the first clips with him and Gomer Pyle aka Jim Nabors. Semper Fi! 🫡🇺🇸🇬🇧 th-cam.com/video/vqZcBliB9Sk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TkLRxlpq6BEDBKKT
I don't want to be a nitpicker but at the 5:24 mark, you mention the Eight Cavalry Division. This is a mistake. It was the Eight Cavalry REGIMENT which was part of the First Cavalry Division. When the Chinese launch their attacks, they basically took apart the 1st Cavalry Division and 2nd Infantry Division. The American retreat was so hasty and so chaotic that many of the dead were often left behind. To this day, they are still returning the remains of soldiers from the 1st Cavalry Division and the 2nd Infantry Division.
The back of the Korean medal the symbol is "Yin and Yan","The perfection of opposites","The synergy of differences","The connection of everything", continue the poem to yourself👍👍👍
As far as the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, it is possible that since Draper was an engineer, he was under the command of a Navy Seabee unit. Or perhaps while training as an engineer under the command of a Navy Unit. He could not have received the medal during service Korea, as the medal specifically requires that the act of heroism or gallantry be in a non-combat situation. The Army did engage in Amphibious landings in Korea, so it plausible that Draper was detached from his parent command and attached to a Navy Seabee unit for training in landing craft obstacle removal training and he performed an act of gallantry or heroism during that training. The issuing authority would be the Navy in this matter since he would be TAD to the Navy for training.
There is also a ribbon above his right pocket. The NDSM has been awarded for four specific time periods, which did retroactively include the Korean War (1950-1954) even though it was created in 1953. There were advisor in Korea from different units before the war started. So men individually could have been there yet their entire unit might be in occupied Japan.
Based solely on the pictures you provided (since I never watched the show) it looks like the second ribbon could be the National Defense and the fourth could be the AF Expeditionary Medal. This has its own set of problems because the Korea medal is senior to the National Defense Medal and the AF Ex. wasn't authorized until 1961. You didn't mention his Distinguished Unit Citation - the US Army wears some ribbons (I think it's all unit awards but I don't know the exact rule) on the right breast. Checking Wikipedia for units that received a DUC in Korea there are no good answers as to what unit he might have been in. It's just strange that they would be smart enough to put his DUC on the right, but stupid enough to give him a Navy Marine Corp Medal. I think we just blame Hollywood incompetence for this one.
To me the second medal looks to be the National Defense Service Medal and the fourth looks like an Armed Forces Reserve Medal from what appears to be cream and blue colors and design. The National Defense is indeed superior to Korean Service, but the reserve medal seems out of place assuming Draper was supposed to be active duty Army and not a reservist that would have had some other job or career to return home to... I just don't see anything that looks like the color red on the fourth ribbon which both the National Defense and AF Expeditionary medal would have.
On a TH-cam video: Mad men. Dick returns home. The medals are shown on his chest. Is this by the way his second Purple Heart...? What is covered by the PH is half a metal with a Yellow Center in the top row... There's a Red side with possible border stripes between them, which makes me guess that's the National Defense Service Medal... The bottom center medal is multi colored with three thin blue - white/yellow - blue on the edge, a lighter yellow wider band, a thin blue stripe followed by more yellow that maybe repeats itself until it meets the Korean Service medal.
Building fighting positions and field hospitals is definitely the role of a Combat Engineer. "The US Army Corps Of Engineers" is a whole other animal, in the modern era they're responsible for rivers, bridges and dams within the contentinal US and are primarily a civilian organization.
I understood that this is the modern role of the Corps of Engineers but wasn't sure if historically such as in Korea they held a more military role. Thanks for sharing,
Another possibility is that the wardrobe department didn't mess up. And that Navy and Marine Corps medal is there deliberately. And Don put it there himself, possibly in ignorance.
"The Mummy" Our favorite Mummy Killer and Adventurer Rick O'Connell Rank: Captain Unit: French Foreign Legion (Medal List) Legion of Honor Medal Militaries Croix De Guerre Speculation: he saw extensive service in WW1, was most likely a prior enlisted. Highly probable he received a battlefield commission after the battle of Verdun.
There is an oral folk story that Hollywood (in fiction series) will deliberately get something about the US medals and awards wrong. Maybe they will add a medal that doesn't belong like the Navy & Marine Corps Medal that Draper wears. Maybe they get the precedence wrong. Maybe they put the placement of medals on the wrong side. For example, the Army will wear unit awards on the right side, while the Navy & Marines will wear all awards on the left. The information to get the medals in proper sequence and true to a character is available. I think Draper is wearing the N/MC medal because the costumers make it easier to identify stolen valor by intentionally getting something wrong. Maybe it's an intentional reference the Draper is not all he claims to be. But in summary, thank you for your very interesting videos.
The medal next to the PH is definitely suppose to be a National Defense Medal but since he would of been sent home late 1950 if not early 1951 he would not of been awarded one at the time, retroactively sure but not till 1953 at the earliest. I'm also starting to question even so would he of been eligible for the purple heart since Both the real draper and dick's wounds were technically an accident, I'm not sure the grey area of direct/indirect result of enemy action. My only guess would be since no one else was witness to it and since the enemy was just in the area and given Whitman's head injury they would of automatically assumed it was from artillery fire.
@@oberstraphry i said that.....but the part in the show where he is in his dress uniform takes place late 1950/early 1951. That being said it would of been inaccurate to have him wear the NDSM.
It may have been authorized in 1954, but it was authorized for and members that served honorably from June 27, 1950 - July 27, 1954... I don't know what time period that particular scene was supposed to have taken place (i.e. a flash back or not) but if after the medal were authorized, it would be correct that he is wearing it...not withstanding the fact that assuming the identity and rank of a superior officer would certainly call into question the "serving honorably" requirement.
Enjoying your videos! I twitch when I see medals wrong in film and TV. Like on Ghosts where the ribbon bar was backwards. Not sure if an early error they then corrected with the story. Always nice plug for MASH, i think a video on Col Sherman potter could be interesting. Ex cavalryman turn doctor through WW1, WW2 and Korea with also going from non commissioned to commissioned. He wears his ribbons but has an old medal in a case on the wall in his office.
Thanks for the suggestion Jason, I'd not thought of him.
Greetings from South Korea! Great plug about Michael Caine being a Korean War veteran. Looking at the video again, his awards look like (in order) the Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal, the Korea Service Medal, the Armed Forces Reserve Medal and the UN Service Medal which also puts them in the correct order too. A Navy and Marine Corps Medal for an Army officer isn't unheard of, especially during the Korean War, but that would put him most likely in 10th (X) Corps, which had elements of the 1st Marine Division under it. Many Army and Marine medals flowed back and forth in X Corps, especially after the Chinese intervention.
I thank you are right! Good eye 👍
@MrEKWesq it was the 40th Infantry Division patch that gave me a clue, but I was hoping some Navy-Marine awards were thrown in to have the discussion about X Corps.
Ah yes a Reserve medal, good spot. Interesting point about the Navy and Marine Corps Medal I didn't realise that, thanks for sharing.
@@ClaspsofCourage you're welcome! It's seemed to be a fairly common practice prior to the Vietnam War with a few high profile examples. The Army Air Corps pilot(s) who shot down Admiral Yamamoto were awarded Navy Crosses and the Navy PT Boat commander who evacuated GEN MacArthur from The Philippines received the Distinguished Service Cross.
I concur: The order of precedence is key, the Navy & Marine Corps Medal ranks above the Purple Heart AND the National Defense Service Medal ranks above the U.S. Korea medal. The U.S. Armed Forces Reserve medal does rank between the U.S. Korea Medal and the U.N. Medal (for the Korean War). Incidentally, the R.O.K. War Service Medal wasn't approved by the Pentagon until the year 2000 for wear by American veterans of the Korean War! None of whom we're still on Active Duty to enjoy the privilege!
In the “Young Indiana Jones Chronicles”, we see Indy in the Belgian Army during WW1, wearing the Belgian Croix de guerre and the French Medaille militaire.
It’s a purple heart, national defense, Korea service, a reserve medal (not army specific, there’s a catch all ribbon that look the same for all branches) and the United Nations Korea. He’s also entitled to the gold bordered Korea presidential unit citation. Also the foreign Korean War service metal that was established in the 90s. Donald Draper was a ROTC/officer reservist. He got called up for Korea. I just re-watched the show. lol
You are correct based upon order of precedence by regulation.
Another very interesting video! Have just bought and read through the 'Clasps of Courage' book. It is an excellent, thoroughly researched and well-written account of the Indian campaigns in Victorian times, well up to the high standard of the videos. I would thoroughly recommend the book to anyone interested in military history (and I am not being sponsred in any way to write this!)
Well done Daniel!
Thank you so much for the kind words and feedback of my book - I'm glad you enjoyed it! Much appreciated.
National Defense isn’t really a gallantry medal , I have one and I was stateside my entire career, it’s more of the U.S. military’s equivalent of a participation award
I know I made a request in a previous video, but is it also possible to do a video on Admiral General Aladeen?
The National Defense medal is correct for him being he served during a time of that conflict.
Eligibility for the NDSM was expanded by executive orders issued in 1966 (EO 11265), 1991 (EO 12776) and 2003 (EO 13293).
Thanks for sharing that info
@@ClaspsofCourage your quite welcome. Love the vids. ^~^
Loving the videos mate.
With it being King Charle's birthday, it made me think he might be an interesting candidate for one of your videos. Anyway, keep up the uploads!
Thanks for your comment and suggestion.
Do Gunnery Sergeant Vincent Carter from Gomer Pyle compared to the real life Frank Sutton.
He left us much too soon.
Thanks, I've not watched this series but I will take a look
@
Senior Drill Instructor, Gunnery Sergeant Vincent Carter is portrayed by Frank Sutton. According to my research Mr. Sutton served in the pacific with the US Army during WWII.
Here’s one of the first clips with him and Gomer Pyle aka Jim Nabors.
Semper Fi! 🫡🇺🇸🇬🇧
th-cam.com/video/vqZcBliB9Sk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TkLRxlpq6BEDBKKT
I don't want to be a nitpicker but at the 5:24 mark, you mention the Eight Cavalry Division. This is a mistake. It was the Eight Cavalry REGIMENT which was part of the First Cavalry Division. When the Chinese launch their attacks, they basically took apart the 1st Cavalry Division and 2nd Infantry Division. The American retreat was so hasty and so chaotic that many of the dead were often left behind. To this day, they are still returning the remains of soldiers from the 1st Cavalry Division and the 2nd Infantry Division.
Maverick from top gun would be a good episode
Great idea, its on the to-do list
The back of the Korean medal the symbol is "Yin and Yan","The perfection of opposites","The synergy of differences","The connection of everything", continue the poem to yourself👍👍👍
It is the Taeguk. You can just see that there are no circles in shape.
Great video as usual!😊
Please do videos about the ribbons of LTC Henry Blake and COL Sherman Potter, from M*A*S*H.
8th cavalry regiment of the 1st Cavalry Division.
Do guney sgt Hartman from full metal jacket
Excellent idea, thanks for the suggestion
As far as the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, it is possible that since Draper was an engineer, he was under the command of a Navy Seabee unit. Or perhaps while training as an engineer under the command of a Navy Unit. He could not have received the medal during service Korea, as the medal specifically requires that the act of heroism or gallantry be in a non-combat situation. The Army did engage in Amphibious landings in Korea, so it plausible that Draper was detached from his parent command and attached to a Navy Seabee unit for training in landing craft obstacle removal training and he performed an act of gallantry or heroism during that training. The issuing authority would be the Navy in this matter since he would be TAD to the Navy for training.
There is also a ribbon above his right pocket. The NDSM has been awarded for four specific time periods, which did retroactively include the Korean War (1950-1954) even though it was created in 1953. There were advisor in Korea from different units before the war started. So men individually could have been there yet their entire unit might be in occupied Japan.
That looks like a Presidential Unit Citation on the right side, which would be correct placement for a unit-wide award.
Based solely on the pictures you provided (since I never watched the show) it looks like the second ribbon could be the National Defense and the fourth could be the AF Expeditionary Medal. This has its own set of problems because the Korea medal is senior to the National Defense Medal and the AF Ex. wasn't authorized until 1961. You didn't mention his Distinguished Unit Citation - the US Army wears some ribbons (I think it's all unit awards but I don't know the exact rule) on the right breast. Checking Wikipedia for units that received a DUC in Korea there are no good answers as to what unit he might have been in. It's just strange that they would be smart enough to put his DUC on the right, but stupid enough to give him a Navy Marine Corp Medal. I think we just blame Hollywood incompetence for this one.
Interesting points, thanks for sharing.
To me the second medal looks to be the National Defense Service Medal and the fourth looks like an Armed Forces Reserve Medal from what appears to be cream and blue colors and design. The National Defense is indeed superior to Korean Service, but the reserve medal seems out of place assuming Draper was supposed to be active duty Army and not a reservist that would have had some other job or career to return home to...
I just don't see anything that looks like the color red on the fourth ribbon which both the National Defense and AF Expeditionary medal would have.
How about Sergeant Noakes from 'Call the Midwife'.
Draper was in the army wearing marine ribbons? WTF?
On a TH-cam video: Mad men. Dick returns home. The medals are shown on his chest. Is this by the way his second Purple Heart...?
What is covered by the PH is half a metal with a Yellow Center in the top row... There's a Red side with possible border stripes between them, which makes me guess that's the National Defense Service Medal...
The bottom center medal is multi colored with three thin blue - white/yellow - blue on the edge, a lighter yellow wider band, a thin blue stripe followed by more yellow that maybe repeats itself until it meets the Korean Service medal.
Building fighting positions and field hospitals is definitely the role of a Combat Engineer.
"The US Army Corps Of Engineers" is a whole other animal, in the modern era they're responsible for rivers, bridges and dams within the contentinal US and are primarily a civilian organization.
I understood that this is the modern role of the Corps of Engineers but wasn't sure if historically such as in Korea they held a more military role. Thanks for sharing,
The Engineer Regiment of the Corps of Engineers would definitely see combat.
They provide frontline services.
Another possibility is that the wardrobe department didn't mess up. And that Navy and Marine Corps medal is there deliberately. And Don put it there himself, possibly in ignorance.
"The Mummy"
Our favorite Mummy Killer and Adventurer
Rick O'Connell
Rank: Captain
Unit: French Foreign Legion
(Medal List)
Legion of Honor
Medal Militaries
Croix De Guerre
Speculation: he saw extensive service in WW1, was most likely a prior enlisted. Highly probable he received a battlefield commission after the battle of Verdun.
Don should have recieved the Soldiers medalmif he was U.S. Army.
There is an oral folk story that Hollywood (in fiction series) will deliberately get something about the US medals and awards wrong. Maybe they will add a medal that doesn't belong like the Navy & Marine Corps Medal that Draper wears. Maybe they get the precedence wrong. Maybe they put the placement of medals on the wrong side. For example, the Army will wear unit awards on the right side, while the Navy & Marines will wear all awards on the left. The information to get the medals in proper sequence and true to a character is available. I think Draper is wearing the N/MC medal because the costumers make it easier to identify stolen valor by intentionally getting something wrong. Maybe it's an intentional reference the Draper is not all he claims to be. But in summary, thank you for your very interesting videos.
The medal next to the PH is definitely suppose to be a National Defense Medal but since he would of been sent home late 1950 if not early 1951 he would not of been awarded one at the time, retroactively sure but not till 1953 at the earliest. I'm also starting to question even so would he of been eligible for the purple heart since Both the real draper and dick's wounds were technically an accident, I'm not sure the grey area of direct/indirect result of enemy action. My only guess would be since no one else was witness to it and since the enemy was just in the area and given Whitman's head injury they would of automatically assumed it was from artillery fire.
Given retroactively for Korean War service 1950-1954.
@@oberstraphry i said that.....but the part in the show where he is in his dress uniform takes place late 1950/early 1951. That being said it would of been inaccurate to have him wear the NDSM.
Which Dom Draper 😀😀😀😀
The National Defence Medal wasn't authorised until 1954.
It may have been authorized in 1954, but it was authorized for and members that served honorably from June 27, 1950 - July 27, 1954...
I don't know what time period that particular scene was supposed to have taken place (i.e. a flash back or not) but if after the medal were authorized, it would be correct that he is wearing it...not withstanding the fact that assuming the identity and rank of a superior officer would certainly call into question the "serving honorably" requirement.
Shagger Don was a crooked fellow, not much good at anything in the end.