I use 2 way toggle switches it may sound dumb but i have the top spot green and the bottom spot ref green for right rail power and red for left rail power
Hello Larry ,just found your site and have to tell you it`s one of the most useful ones out there.....SUBSRIBED !!!! I just got into N scale model railroading and will be using NCE DCC, so this channel will be extremely helpful (I saw your video on NCE Switch 8s and just bought several.....bonus) Thankyou ! Paul in Canada
I keep watching these videos. And, I keep understanding and absorbing more and more. And, finally, I am beginning to get it (I think). I am hard-headed as a pecker-wood bird. But, these videos are a real aid to what I wish to learn. Much obliged.
Sorry to be off topic but does anybody know a method to get back into an Instagram account..? I was stupid lost my login password. I love any assistance you can give me!
These really are excellent little circuit boards for frog polarity control, easy to install and with bulletproof reliability. They have become the exclusive frog control device on a friend's layout even though I have previously used the auxiliary contacts on both tortoise and twin coil switch machines. They are just so good that they make all other frog polarity control methods obsolete. The only limitation with them is the manufacturer's recommend maximum length of the wire to the frog itself which means if you have a very long passing siding you can't use a dual juicer to power both ends but instead need a single unit at each end. I've yet to try a dual frog juicer as an automatic reverser but will try that when our supply of AR-1 boards run out. And in addition to Larry pointing out that the hex juicer is a significant money saver where many switches are grouped together, they also save wire connections and under layout real estate at yard leads and congested switching areas where there is already a plethora of wiring. And I like supporting a small entrepreneur company that serves the model railroad industry, especially since the product is so good!
I think you’ll like the response of the dual juicer as an autoreverser. I tried an AR-1 on my turntable and it didn’t cut the mustard. I then popped in the dual juicer and it works every time. I can spin a loco on the turntable without the sounds skipping a beat, and that is without a Keep Alive.
The dual juicer autoreverser is really quick and reliable. I tired an AR-1 on my turntable and it didn’t cut the mustard. With the dual juicer I can spin a loco on the turntable and the sounds won’t skip a beat, and that’s without a Keep Alive installed!
No, that would be more work than I would ever have time for. Plus since they are free on TH-cam I doubt anyone would buy them. You are aware that you can download them onto your computer?
Larry, awesome video full of great information. I have plans to use those if I need too. I like the idea of using the switch machine to do the frog juicing. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of this topic, it helps us who know nothing or not much. Thanks for sharing. Ken
I like using the Tortoise method too, but these are great for folks who don’t use them and instead depend on the internal springs in the MicroEngineering turnouts or use Caboose ground throws. Also, these are great for special situations like those I describe in the video.
I have some non-DCC locos that I run with DC power pack that I temporarily connect to my power bus wires. If I install some frog juicers with the DC power harm them? I do know that they won't function with DC.
They only supply power to a small area, the frog itself and only to one locomotive so little current is involved usually. Also they are not in the main power bus, they are dropped off it.
Installed 6 gaugemaster juicers on my electrofrog peco points but find they regularly fail to switch polarity and wonder why. Have you come accross this. Thanks Larry.
No experience with the Gaugemaster version. The Frog Juicer is very reliable in my experience and I would expect the Gaugemaster to be also if properly engineered. Do the failures happen with all you locos and all the units or just some?
I have a question, In a few spots I plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws (non-reporting). I bought a Frog Juicer to power the frog. Is this all I need? There will be no reporting of the switch position due to it being manual.
Should work fine. The Caboose ground throw will align the points and the Frog Juicer will handle the polarity the first time a metal wheel hits the frog.
Ok Larry question, I have two #8 Walthers crossovers , do I only need one Duo frog juicer for both or do I need two of them or use a hex frog juicer, I will have two spares I guess
The dual FJ has 2 outputs so powers 2 frogs, the hex has 6. I am expecting a new product in this week that will compete with the Frog Juicers at a lower cost. Video coming soon.
@ ok Larry I will look forward to it , Sparky gave me a hex frog juicer so I can test it on my two crossovers , locomotives don’t like the dead spot on my #8 crossover x
The way these are built they have built in isolating gaps at the frogs so I just connect them to live tracks on either side and then power the frog for correct polarity.
I don’t recommend Conch Jones connecters as they have too much resistance. I instead recommend Anderson Power Poles which have a very low resistance. You can find them on the www.ncedcc.com website. For more info on these check out www.wiringfordcc.com/PPproposal.htm .
Hi Larry, thanks again for another great video! I'm considering using using some Dual Frog Juicers but had one quick question please? I've never used these but I've a fair bit of experience using other brands of reverse loop modules on a previous layout, and whilst those always worked well I was able to notice an (albeit very very brief!) flicker of the loco headlights as the unit quickly switches the polarity. In your experience have you every noticed a similar flicker with these Tam Valley units as a loco crosses the gapped rails? Thanks a lot and best wishes, G
Never have seen a flicker. These switch in about 200 microseconds. The only problem I have ever had was using them with PSX circuit breakers which work at about the same speed. The fix was to change the speed on the PSX just enough to allow the Frog Juicer to switch first.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks again for the help Larry, one last wee question please? On my small layout it's not big enough for second power booster, but I am using a couple of PSX breakers to divide it into 2/3 power districts. In addition I run an accessory DCC bus for all the switch machines that doesn't run through the PSX breakers. Would it make sense to run the Juicers from this separate bus to power the frogs? Thanks a lot! :)
Since everything is powered off the same command station/booster there really is no good reason to do that. The only reason to do it would be if you installed block occupancy detectors since the frog juicer would cause a false detect but powering off a separate lone would avoid that.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks again Larry! You're a great great help :) That's a very good call RE: block detection, I hadn't considered that. Actually I am planning to use a couple of NCE AIU along with DCC Concepts LM-iD's (BD20 equiv.), so thank you for flagging this up. Much apprecited
Yes, you have to use some kind of switching device to get the polarity correct. Frog Juicers do it automatically but with a Tortoise or other switch machine you have to do it. I discussed this in one of my videos but at this point have lost track of which one but it is one on switches, frogs, or Tortoises, watch them all and enjoy!
How would you recommend DCC wiring for a crossing? - new to DCC. My Fast Tracks crossing has cut rails similar to a turnout frog. I am a little lost in tracking (no pun intended) the wiring within the diamond. A video about wiring DCC crossings to DCC newbies like myself would be wonderful. Thank you.
I generally use commercial crossings that are DCC friendly and therefore don’t have to do anything special. You just connect them to the existing rails with rail joiners and the power flows where it is supposed to. However I only have one crossing like that on the layout. If properly constructed and isolated as you go all,should be OK. You might check the Fast Tracks website to see if they have any tips on these and I’ll dig around in my turnout box to see what I have that I can test.
if you use tortoise switch machines, better to use their internal contacts to provide power to the frog. I have found the FJer tends to "flip" slower than a PSX circuit breaker and therefore causes a false short.
Larry, I'm thinking of using the new Walthers Layout Control System switch machine. I was told they can also power the frog but the documentation doesn't provide specifics. Have you looked at these devices and do you have any tips?
I have some but have not yet had a chance to work with them. I’ll try to look at the manual this week and get back to you with something on the frog powering capability. I remembered that Eric White did a review of them in the Sept 2018 MR so I looked it up. He says that these do have outputs for powering frogs or LEDs. There should be downloadable instructions on the Walthers website so you can get an idea of how these work and just how complex or simplex they are to work with.
And that is why I only have 4 on my layout. There 2 are on a gantlet track where Tortoises are not used and one dual FJ is on a double crossover. The other is on my turntable. However if you are using Caboose ground throws, or flicking points with your finger or some other manual means then Frog Juicers can easily handle the frog power for you. Some folks also may be using the SPDT switches in the Tortoise for signals or other purposes. So there are a number of scenarios where Frog Juicers fill an important void.
I use 2 way toggle switches it may sound dumb but i have the top spot green and the bottom spot ref green for right rail power and red for left rail power
i will be coming back to this video for future ref. thanks
Hello Larry ,just found your site and have to tell you it`s one of the most useful ones out there.....SUBSRIBED !!!! I just got into N scale model railroading and will be using NCE DCC, so this channel will be extremely helpful (I saw your video on NCE Switch 8s and just bought several.....bonus)
Thankyou !
Paul in Canada
I keep watching these videos. And, I keep understanding and absorbing more and more. And, finally, I am beginning to get it (I think). I am hard-headed as a pecker-wood bird. But, these videos are a real aid to what I wish to learn. Much obliged.
Sorry to be off topic but does anybody know a method to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid lost my login password. I love any assistance you can give me!
@Cade Zayd Instablaster :)
These really are excellent little circuit boards for frog polarity control, easy to install and with bulletproof reliability. They have become the exclusive frog control device on a friend's layout even though I have previously used the auxiliary contacts on both tortoise and twin coil switch machines. They are just so good that they make all other frog polarity control methods obsolete. The only limitation with them is the manufacturer's recommend maximum length of the wire to the frog itself which means if you have a very long passing siding you can't use a dual juicer to power both ends but instead need a single unit at each end. I've yet to try a dual frog juicer as an automatic reverser but will try that when our supply of AR-1 boards run out. And in addition to Larry pointing out that the hex juicer is a significant money saver where many switches are grouped together, they also save wire connections and under layout real estate at yard leads and congested switching areas where there is already a plethora of wiring. And I like supporting a small entrepreneur company that serves the model railroad industry, especially since the product is so good!
I think you’ll like the response of the dual juicer as an autoreverser. I tried an AR-1 on my turntable and it didn’t cut the mustard. I then popped in the dual juicer and it works every time. I can spin a loco on the turntable without the sounds skipping a beat, and that is without a Keep Alive.
The dual juicer autoreverser is really quick and reliable. I tired an AR-1 on my turntable and it didn’t cut the mustard. With the dual juicer I can spin a loco on the turntable and the sounds won’t skip a beat, and that’s without a Keep Alive installed!
Larry...Have ever considered taking ALL your video's and put them on discs as sets..would be a great addition to a model library
No, that would be more work than I would ever have time for. Plus since they are free on TH-cam I doubt anyone would buy them. You are aware that you can download them onto your computer?
Great informative video as usual. I keep wondering if you ever have done a video tour of your layout as it really looks like a good one.
Its on the list of things to do.
Sir can I connect this frog juice and bond the wire to the side of the frog in electrofrog turnout?
Larry, awesome video full of great information. I have plans to use those if I need too. I like the idea of using the switch machine to do the frog juicing. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of this topic, it helps us who know nothing or not much. Thanks for sharing. Ken
I like using the Tortoise method too, but these are great for folks who don’t use them and instead depend on the internal springs in the MicroEngineering turnouts or use Caboose ground throws. Also, these are great for special situations like those I describe in the video.
Thanks Larry and yes I agree with you on everything. I have had loco’s stall at the frogs already. I will be installing juicers soon. Thanks again.
I have some non-DCC locos that I run with DC power pack that I temporarily connect to my power bus wires. If I install some frog juicers with the DC power harm them? I do know that they won't function with DC.
I’ll have to dig and see whether it might damage them.
Larry, explain how these small circuits doesn't become resistance choke points in the DCC circuit.
They only supply power to a small area, the frog itself and only to one locomotive so little current is involved usually. Also they are not in the main power bus, they are dropped off it.
Installed 6 gaugemaster juicers on my electrofrog peco points but find they regularly fail to switch polarity and wonder why. Have you come accross this. Thanks Larry.
No experience with the Gaugemaster version. The Frog Juicer is very reliable in my experience and I would expect the Gaugemaster to be also if properly engineered. Do the failures happen with all you locos and all the units or just some?
I have a question, In a few spots I plan to use Caboose Industries ground throws (non-reporting). I bought a Frog Juicer to power the frog. Is this all I need? There will be no reporting of the switch position due to it being manual.
Should work fine. The Caboose ground throw will align the points and the Frog Juicer will handle the polarity the first time a metal wheel hits the frog.
Ok Larry question, I have two #8 Walthers crossovers , do I only need one Duo frog juicer for both or do I need two of them or use a hex frog juicer, I will have two spares I guess
The dual FJ has 2 outputs so powers 2 frogs, the hex has 6. I am expecting a new product in this week that will compete with the Frog Juicers at a lower cost. Video coming soon.
@ ok Larry I will look forward to it , Sparky gave me a hex frog juicer so I can test it on my two crossovers , locomotives don’t like the dead spot on my #8 crossover x
Is a Circuit Breaker needed if I use a Frog Juicer?
Yes, the Frog Juicer just corrects phase mismatches at the frog. If a sort occurs for other reasons the juicer will do nothing.
Should I have insulate fishplates then I use this on my turnout or will it work without this?
The way these are built they have built in isolating gaps at the frogs so I just connect them to live tracks on either side and then power the frog for correct polarity.
question about the cinch jones connectors... i've seen many types and sizes of them... which type /size should i use for my HO scale modular layout???
I don’t recommend Conch Jones connecters as they have too much resistance. I instead recommend Anderson Power Poles which have a very low resistance. You can find them on the www.ncedcc.com website. For more info on these check out www.wiringfordcc.com/PPproposal.htm .
@@TheDCCGuy thanks for the info... i will CERTAINLY give these a look
Great video
Hope you can find them over there. These are simple to use, require no CV programming, and just work!
The DCC Guy very good
Hi Larry, thanks again for another great video! I'm considering using using some Dual Frog Juicers but had one quick question please? I've never used these but I've a fair bit of experience using other brands of reverse loop modules on a previous layout, and whilst those always worked well I was able to notice an (albeit very very brief!) flicker of the loco headlights as the unit quickly switches the polarity. In your experience have you every noticed a similar flicker with these Tam Valley units as a loco crosses the gapped rails? Thanks a lot and best wishes, G
Never have seen a flicker. These switch in about 200 microseconds. The only problem I have ever had was using them with PSX circuit breakers which work at about the same speed. The fix was to change the speed on the PSX just enough to allow the Frog Juicer to switch first.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry! Really appreciate the help. I use some PSX untis too so good to know. Best wishes, G
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks again for the help Larry, one last wee question please? On my small layout it's not big enough for second power booster, but I am using a couple of PSX breakers to divide it into 2/3 power districts. In addition I run an accessory DCC bus for all the switch machines that doesn't run through the PSX breakers. Would it make sense to run the Juicers from this separate bus to power the frogs? Thanks a lot! :)
Since everything is powered off the same command station/booster there really is no good reason to do that. The only reason to do it would be if you installed block occupancy detectors since the frog juicer would cause a false detect but powering off a separate lone would avoid that.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks again Larry! You're a great great help :) That's a very good call RE: block detection, I hadn't considered that. Actually I am planning to use a couple of NCE AIU along with DCC Concepts LM-iD's (BD20 equiv.), so thank you for flagging this up. Much apprecited
New Subscriber dumb question....does it matter which bus the switch frog connection goes to? Thanks in advance for replying. Anthony
Yes, you have to use some kind of switching device to get the polarity correct. Frog Juicers do it automatically but with a Tortoise or other switch machine you have to do it. I discussed this in one of my videos but at this point have lost track of which one but it is one on switches, frogs, or Tortoises, watch them all and enjoy!
The DCC Guy Thanks for your response
How would you recommend DCC wiring for a crossing? - new to DCC. My Fast Tracks crossing has cut rails similar to a turnout frog. I am a little lost in tracking (no pun intended) the wiring within the diamond. A video about wiring DCC crossings to DCC newbies like myself would be wonderful. Thank you.
I generally use commercial crossings that are DCC friendly and therefore don’t have to do anything special. You just connect them to the existing rails with rail joiners and the power flows where it is supposed to. However I only have one crossing like that on the layout. If properly constructed and isolated as you go all,should be OK. You might check the Fast Tracks website to see if they have any tips on these and I’ll dig around in my turnout box to see what I have that I can test.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you Larry - really enjoy and appreciate you videos. Been great to get me started in DCC
if you use tortoise switch machines, better to use their internal contacts to provide power to the frog. I have found the FJer tends to "flip" slower than a PSX circuit breaker and therefore causes a false short.
Watch the full video, I talk about how to avoid this problem!
@@TheDCCGuy Ok, I'll watch again
Hi Larry, great video, I have a similar question, Walthers switch machines, do I need frog juicers if I use these
No, they have switching contacts like a Tortoise that you can use ti power route the frog.
@@TheDCCGuy would that work for 2 rail O DCC?
Thank you for another informative video!
I hope you can include Peco turnouts in your up coming video on turnouts
I already have an Electrofrog in hand and think I can borrow an Insulfrog from a friend.
Larry, I'm thinking of using the new Walthers Layout Control System switch machine. I was told they can also power the frog but the documentation doesn't provide specifics. Have you looked at these devices and do you have any tips?
I have some but have not yet had a chance to work with them. I’ll try to look at the manual this week and get back to you with something on the frog powering capability.
I remembered that Eric White did a review of them in the Sept 2018 MR so I looked it up. He says that these do have outputs for powering frogs or LEDs. There should be downloadable instructions on the Walthers website so you can get an idea of how these work and just how complex or simplex they are to work with.
I don't get the enthusiasm for frog juicers. If you have a bluepoint or tortoise throwout, you already have all you need to juice a frog.
And that is why I only have 4 on my layout. There 2 are on a gantlet track where Tortoises are not used and one dual FJ is on a double crossover. The other is on my turntable. However if you are using Caboose ground throws, or flicking points with your finger or some other manual means then Frog Juicers can easily handle the frog power for you. Some folks also may be using the SPDT switches in the Tortoise for signals or other purposes. So there are a number of scenarios where Frog Juicers fill an important void.
I love frog juicers
Me too! How often do you find something in DCC that works without programming a bunch of CVs?
No worry, all of my frogs are plastic on my DCC road...