Who is Glorfindel? The Balrog Slayer and the Fall of Gondolin - Lore Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2020
- Who is Glorfindel? The Legendary Elf Lord from Gondolin, who slew a Balrog? In this special Episode of my books and films references and differences series, we will fully focus on this character, who only has a smallc ameo in the LotR films. In Tolkien's books however he plays a bigger role and has a very interesting backstory in the lore, which includes the Fall of Gondolin, but also Balrogs, Dragons and the First Dark Lord Morgoth.
► Artwork and special thanks to:
➥ Kimberly80 - www.deviantart.com/kimberly80
➥ Laura Tolton - www.deviantart.com/lauratolton
➥ Niahti - www.artstation.com/niahti
➥ BeneF - www.deviantart.com/benef
► Mistakes:
-
There are a ton of typing errors for sure, e.g. Leser Market (Laser Market?) - Lesser Market on the Gondolin Map.
- At 16:13 I say Elenwë was the daughter of Turgon. Weird mistake, but ofc Idril is the daughter of Turgon. Elwenë is his wife.
► Playlists:
If you are interested in Tolkien's legendary #fantasy Epic The Lord of the Rings and his related works, here some recommendations:
➥Book/Film Differences Series - • LotR Prologue Explaine...
➥Recommended Lore Videos - • Who are Tolkien's Wiza...
The Philosopher's Games / TPhGames / TPhLore
► Social Media:
➥ TH-cam: / thephilosophersgames
➥ Gaming Channel - / tphgames
➥ Twitch Channel - / thephilosophersgames
➥ Twitter (@PhilosophGames): / philosophgames
➥ Discord Server - / discord
➥ TH-cam Twitch Archive - / @tphgamesarchive
► Of Games and Rings Podcast:
➥ Spotify - open.spotify.com/episode/4xQx...
► Sources:
Books:
The Lord of The Rings (1954-1955) by J. R. R. Tolkien
The Silmarillion (1977) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Hobbit (1937) by J. R. R. Tolkien
Unfinished Tales (1980) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien (1981) by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien
The Book of Lost Tales Part Two (1984) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Fall of Gondolin (2018) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
Morgoth's Ring (1993) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
Peoples of Middle-earth (1996) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
The Return of the Shadow (1988) by J. R. R. Tolkien; Editor: Christopher Tolkien
TolkienGateway.net - tolkiengateway.net
Pictures from:
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012)
The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (2013)
The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)
Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor (2014)
Middle-earth: Shadow of War (2017)
Maps by:
- Amazon
(edited and Beleriand added by Murdo)
- LotRProject.com - lotrproject.com/map
► Hashtags:
➥ #LotR #Lore #Tolkien #TPhLore #TPhGames - บันเทิง
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I think one reason that Glorfindel didn't join the Fellowship is that their main asset was stealth. If a being as powerful as him accompanied the Fellowship the might as well carry a massive Neon sign advertising to Sauron.
Ieuan Hunt: I totally agree! Gandalf and Aragorn were the most powerful members of the Fellowship, but they both went about pretty much disguised as an old man and a weather-stained wanderer. Gandalf was pretty upset when Boromir blew his horn as they were leaving Rivendell. So yeah, stealth was the key.
Meanwhile, a (future) balrog killer accompanies the fellowship.
@@caelestigladii if you mean during The Return of the King in the battle for the Black Gate. The whole point of that battle was to be as distracting as possible.
I think it was mainly due to his singularly removing all threats other THAN Sauron.
Also having Gandalf in the party already cut the xp gains well enough for everyone.
If they had added the Glorf levelling would have been impossible.
“What happened in the first age?”
“Let me ‘splain... No, it is too much; let me sum up.”
When I was first reading through Fellowship I asked my dad who Glorfindel was. He said he was the elf version of Captain America. I was "oh cool" and continued on reading
haha that as good way of describing him ^^
Indeed he is!!! My hero.
@BioHazard☠️ I think my dad was making that comparison more in the fact that he's a mythical superhero from a long time ago, Glorfindel in the first age, and Captain America in the forties. Don't think to deep
Hahaha I’ve actually thought the same thing!
Whenever I watch your videos it reminds me how much of a genius Tolkien was. His story is truly the most elaborate fantasy ever created. Nothing even comes close to beating it
Was tough to make, I hope people enjoy it in these difficult times. This is not marked as episode 20 of the Boosk and Films references and differences series, but it is Episode #20. It's a stand alone episode though. Thanks again to Kimberly80 and Laura Tolton (who just gave me permission to use her art works a few days ago). Also thank you to Murdo from my community, who made this amazing high res Beleriand map in the style of the Amazon (LotRonPrime) map and allowed me to use it :)
► Artwork and special thanks to:
➥ Kimberly80 - www.deviantart.com/kimberly80
➥ Laura Tolton - www.deviantart.com/lauratolton
🤸
If Glorfindel had joined the fellowship Moria would of been different.
Gandalf: Flee you fools!
Glorfindel: Hold my beer!
haha yes
Legolas: A Balrog of Morgoth!
Glorfindel: hey I know this guy!
😂
@@ThePhilosophersGames
Glorfindel: th-cam.com/video/ZCh53fvuqHk/w-d-xo.html
No one makes better Tolkien videos. So well researched and comprehensive
Thank you much appreciated :) Glad you like them ^^
I love the way he pronounces the names too.
Kimberly80’s artwork is fantastic. It’s so refreshing to see that so many people are as interested in the depths of Tolkien’s work as I am. I’ve been quite the scholar(in my way) for years now and have never met anyone who is in as deep as me. I have friends and my brother that love his work and whom I help and encourage to dig deeper, but it’s awesome to see the level of detail you’re explaining with. Love your videos man
Woooohoooooo!!
As someone commented on a previous video: "looks like philosophersgames is back on the menu boys!" haha 😆
haha yes I remember that one ^^ This video is long overdue, took forever to make. I hope you enjoy it :)
Orc: What's a menu?
*Rohan Riders Enter The Chat*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! We want some meat!
The elves of Beleriand simply had no chance against Morgoth's most terrifying weapon: an iguana. 21:01
that is correct ^^
Best👏 Comment👏 Ever👏
That is a terrifying thought!! All know of the mighty powers of the Iguana!
Them leaving Glorfindel out of the movies is the thing i hated about the movies the most(still love the movies.) He is my favorite Elf in Middle earth.
He was mostly left out of the books as well. For an Elf Lord who had died in the first age and returned to fulfill some kind of destiny, it is pretty anti climactic that his only role is to help Frodo get to Rivendell. Where the hell was he in the big battles when the Nazgul was everywhere? I get it why he wasn't with the fellowship. But there is not even any mention that he was around in the Northern battles when Lorien and Mirkwood were attacked.
He was too OP. Would’ve broken the story.
Personally, I hated them leaving out Tom Bombadil the most, though I understand why they did so.
Just wanted to drop a quick note to say "thank you" for all of the LotR videos! Always interesting, and always much appreciated.
According to Tolkien scholar Tom Shippey, the war machines that appeared in The Battle of Gondolin were in fact tanks or at least heavily inspired by them, as Tolkien fought in Word War I were he encountered them, being newly introduced in war (as well the last war where horses were used, as his duty was to train horses for combat use). As Tolkien used many things from his life into his writing, like Dead Marsches inspired by the flooded trenches were dead soilders lied in them, it is very likely these were tanks. The reference isn't mention in Silmarillion but in earlier versions and I read (think it was from a Wikipedia page) that the publisher asked Christopher Tolkien to take out this reference from the Silmarillion.
Holy Moly! 42 minutes turned into 2.5 hours. Pausing "wait what? who?", consulting Robert Foster's "Complete Guide" (which was not complete enough to include Maeglin's co-conspirator) and reading screen shots that were not read is a remarkably well spent Saturday morning. Thank you so much for putting this together! The Silmarillion was so dense I got stuck 1/3 the way through, and have been trying to patch together the stories as best as I can.
I'm on my third time rewatching and never getting bored
"One does not simply walk from Aman to Middle Earth." 👌
Fëanor's kin - Hold our beer."
Everytime I see this I bristle at Glorfindel with lavender hair.
I am so glad that I found your channel. I'm a big old lotr nerd and your dedication to detail and just to the pronunciations of the names and places is truly above and beyond. The time you have spent learning and then sharing all of this is just an incredible amount of work and so well done. I truly enjoy watching your videos. The artwork you have also found by so many talented artists is fantastic. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication. I believe Tolkien would be very proud.
Thank you, much appreciated! Happy you found your way (and like my content) and that we can share our passion for Tolkien's works :)
@@ThePhilosophersGames oh, I love your content. Top marks across the board. I will be sure to share your outstanding work with as many as I can. You've really out done yourself.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Dear Chris,
This time last year I was slowly recovering from Covid & your content, delivered in your voice, became a regular treat. For some reason my brain got stuck in haiku mode in 2020, & this one is in appreciation for all you do
Tolkien therapy:
My sanity preserver!
Bless you, lore master
@@nzinaz Happy to hear my content helped you out through tough times. Also I hope you recovered fully and feel well again. Friends who had it (or whose relatives got it) told me it was really a horrible experience and some still suffer from aftereffects of it. All the best to you and all others who had it or still recover from it!
Also thank you for your nice words. Comments like these are really encouraging for me. Much appreciated!
PS:
Small hint:
it's maybe a bit counter-intuitive, but comments are easier for me to see, when they are "fresh" comments that are not answers to older existing comments (independent on when a video was posted). I usually read all, but some comments are impossible for me to see. In tis case I got pinged/notified and saw it, but YT is a bit unreliable when it comes to this.
Well said. I'm so grateful to have found him too.
Your long videos like this are my favorite! Thanks!
Happy you like them ^^ I did not expect it being so long, but there were a lot of things to cover.
I love your videos and wanted to suggest another topic you could cover - healing in Middle Earth. Who could heal? How was healing accomplished. What were famous instances of healing. Could the Elven rings of power heal? Could Elrond, Galadriel, or Gandolf heal? We know Athelas has healing properties, but could only the King use it?
It was the first comment I've ever posted, lol. Thank you for your kind response. I seem to have permanently lost my sense of taste & still have serious post-covid fatigue, but I'm happy to have survived. Thanks again for sharing your love of & insights into the wonderful world of Professor Tolkien. I look forward to many more videos! Love from the Arizona desert 🌞
haha I feel honoured that your first comment was under one of my videos ^^
Oh that sounds horrible =/ All the best I hope you fully recover!
no problem, more videos are in the making, but I think the next one could be quite long, so it takes some time.
@@ThePhilosophersGames The long ones are my favorites, well worth the wait.
Carry on, lore master ;)
The scale of events in The First Age blows my mind. The events of the third age seem like a skirmish.
A fact I've tried to stress to people who resist reading the books. I mean there was a battle so destructive it sunk part of a continent.
Love this! Glorfindel is my favourite Tolkien character, and there are many to love..I also appreciate how you take pains to pronounce names and places correctly, and your German accent makes them sound even more cool.
thank you :) Agreed Glorfindel is also among my favourite characters. Was a ton of fun making this video because of that ^^
He, along with the sons of Elrond, was one of the more disappointing omissions from Jackson's films, even though I recognize why it was a necessary one. Good work, and great video. I've given lectures on Tolkien at my local community college and, with your blessing, I'd like to add a few of your videos to the list of follow-up content for students who want to learn more.
Yes true, would be great to have them in the films, but I get why they were cut out.
Thank you, much appreciated :) Sure feel free to do so, I feel honoured ^^
Er
T
I never knew there was sooo much about Lord of the rings! Like one person came up with this?! One mans imagination
Yes Tolkien spent a lifetime creating a lot of details, lore and background story (even though he never fully finished everything and did not publish it himself). His son Christopher (who worked with his father on the Silmarillion as editor and later published the Silmarillion posthumously) spent also a life time bringing things in order and publishing it with his insights. And I guess it shows. Ofc much of this was not intended to be published or still work in progress, but still it's impressive how much material was there in Tolkien's notes and drafts and how it can often fit into the world of Tolkien's main works (LotR and Hobbit).
It’s even more impressive than you realize.. the more you dig the deeper and more magical it gets
Now that I've found your channel, I'm going through the inventory. My "watch later" list has grown. Very much enjoyed this in-depth look at a very interesting figure from the books. Love the artwork you've chosen to accompany your narration. And speaking of narration, I find that the cadence of your voice encourages closer attention to the words. The way you speak Elvish is the way I always imagined it. Well done again.
Thank you for the positive feedback, happy you enjoy my videos and narration so much :) haha yes over time I made a lot of content.
I'm also happy that I got permission of some artists atall. Their works are so great and I'm always in dire need for more artworks. Really lucky that Kimberly80 has created so many Tolkien related images over the years and that I have access to them ^^
I always hate when Arwen arrives in the movies because I loved Glorfindel in the book 😢
Yes I can definitely understand that disappointment =/
The Balrog Slayer...now that's a badass title.
yes agreed ^^
Glorfindel is so badass he's the only Elf, besides Luthien, Mandos decided to re-spawn and whip ass on Evil. He's that dude.
haha yes, he really is
@@ThePhilosophersGames I think Glorfindel represents Tolkien's own anger for vengeance.
In his early writing, Tolkien wasn't sure to make him the same Glorfindel that fought a Balrog off a cliff going balls out. But then he said.. yeah, it's the same guy. Screw it!
Haha 🤣
It's a little hidden petty asf character and a gem that Tolkien deserved to break his own rule. Like Illuvatar does once in a while.
Tolkien: Let's see.. bring back Feanor? No. Bring back Fingolfin? No. Bring back Fingon? No. Finrod? Kinda. Turgon? No... random Elf Lord who fought a Balrog straight up to save his people? That's me. Ok that works.
Glorfindel is cool but imagine if Tolkien brought back even the "weakest" of the Noldor King's; Fingon? Fingon in the second age would have destroyed Sauron with zero fucks given. Because he would know and even lead The Numenoreans to stay true without Sauron whispering craziness in their ear.
Almost all High Elves were reincarnated. Feanor is mentioned as an exception. Glorfindel was the only one who returned to Middle-earth, that's all.
That was Epic!! Keep up the Amazing work!!!!
Thank you, happy you enjoyed it ^^
These are amazing listens brother. The future is bright with your inspiration and explanation of history.
Thank you for creating this. It was very enjoyable.
Great video again and glad to see you got more artists on board! :)
Thank you ^^ Yes I'm glad too. I hope I get some more permissions from artists. So far Kimberly incredible work is carrying me hard ^^ So lucky she painted all those people from the lore.
Brilliantly done, I have read the books you quote, & your summary was excellent. Arwen was well done in the film but Glorfindel should have been left in the film. It would have added so much more weight to "you cannot use it, none of us can". Another great elven lord had it easily within his grasp but made the choice. On a far more trivial note, it would have been another superb excuse for sfx to keep the kiddies happy in the film!
Thank you :) Yes agreed, he has a very small cameo in RotK, but having him in this scene would have been cool. At least have him in the Council.
My heart sank when I reached the end of this playlist, but I'm happy that there are more to look forward to! I've been a Tolkien fan since the 70s and saw the Bakshi film in the cinema! :-)
Happy that you as a long time Tolkien fan can enjoy my videos too :) Yes sadly I can't make videos as fast as people watch them and quality takes time ^^ Oh that must have been an interesting experience. I was not even born at that time. It's visual style is very unique (even though not unusual for Bakshi films it seems). What was that for an experience in the cinema?
Great job. Learn a bit more each time I watch a video.
Yes, Glorfindel saw the 2 trees!!
Excellent video. Quite informative. Thank you.
Thank you, much appreciated :)
I always watch your videos, even though I don't always comment... thanks for talking about one of my favorite characters and who I've been waiting for a video for a long time
And good job as always
I definitely see you as active in the comments (for a long time now) ^^ So Thank you for that too! Much appreciated, I like Glorfindel too, happy I could finally cover him in a video - also a longer one.
wow awesome video I appreciate all the work you put into it glad a found your ch
Thank you, happy you enjoyed it and that you found your way to my channel ^^
I searched for long hours to re-find your channel, but it was sooo worth it. Your videos have so much more detail than other Tolkien channels, and are delivered with such awesome precision. They are a delight to behold. I'm subscribed now, so I won't lose your channel again.
Thank you, much appreicated :) Happy that you found your way back again.
I often put in a lot of work in some details, but sadly it often takes me forever to finish a video. The one I'm currently working on (for several months now) is really massive and I guess will be the longest and most detailed video I have ever done 😅
Easiest way to find it is probably searching for "who is sauron" or sauron lore. Usually my video pops up in the first few search results. I'm also in linked somewhere in the "channels" section of most other bigger Tolkien lore channels. But I guess now it's too late ^^
LOVE THIS CHANNEL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
Thank you, happy you enjoy ^^ I'll try :D
Your videos are amazing. Longer the better gets my vote haha!
I'm glad you addressed this.... Feanor was the ONLY one of Finwe's sons who was 100% Noldor. Fingolfin and Finarfin were half Vanyar.... and Fingolfin's children were all Noldor and Vanyar... while Finarfin married a Teleri.... and So his children were 1/4 Noldor, 1/4 Vanyar and half Teleri. You kind of addressed this, but I think it shows up in many subtle and not so subtle ways.
G-Man (would that be G-Elf?) has always been one of my favorite characters. The Trilogy only hints at what an incredibly powerful Elf-Lord Glorfindel really was.
I like the G-Elf :D Yes agreed, he is a really cool character (I like him too), that I always wanted to cover. I like how it only becomes clear when you now the lore, what an absolute legend Glorfindel is.
ThePhilosophersGames: Yes indeed! All the references about Glorfindel, Gondor, Lúthien the Fair, etc in the LoTR made me want to know more! Which lead me to The Silmarillion, which I absolutely love!!
Tolkien must have seen the first tanks appear in action on the battlefields of WW1. Iron things that rolled on, crushing everything. I think that these tanks come back in some form in the story.
In the early version of the fall of gondolin morgoths army essentially has tanks, huge mechanical things which destroy the cities walls
Tolkien specifically said the book had nothing to do with either the first or second world war! I myself find that hard to believe. To live through those events would most certainly effect your real view of things and your imagination
Good stuff man, keep it up!
Thank you, I'll try :)
Really interesting video! Thanks for all the hard work you put into ur vids. Love it!
No problem, happy you enjoy my work. Thank you too for taking the the time to comment!
ThePhilosophersGames No problem, keep up the great work!
It doesn't make complete sense to me, but I've been watching LOTR-related videos for a while now, and it is suggested that Glorfindel, of the House of the Golden Flower, was kin to Turgon and had come over the Helacaraxe with Fingolfin and Galadriel.... there were obviously hundreds who made that journey, perhaps thousands. It amazes me that while someone like Feanor can have so many children... and yet the women are barely mentioned, their origins and their families... but of course there must have been several generations come to being during the years of the trees. It is quite possible that Turgon's wife, who died along the journey had brothers/sisters/nieces/nephews, etc... and perhaps Glorfindel was one of these? The one failing of Tolokien is that for whatever reason, he does not often incorporate the powerful motivation of sex... at least not in detail... tho he does hint at it sometimes - We tend to discard or disregard the hundreds/thousands of elves who were in the 3 main houses... Unless they are mentioned, we tend to think they aren't important. Our failing perhaps, and not Tolkien's.
I think that beyond The Lay of Leithian my favorite pieces of Tolkien's Legendarium must be those that tell of the First Age elves who survived or were returned, through the Third Age. These (and I cannot name all of them) of the First Born must have been exceedingly powerful, and exceedingly breathtaking to behold during the War of the Ring and the end of the Third Age. I think I rather fully understand Gimli's reaction to, and love for Galadriel.
I often wonder if some of most long-lived of elves approached or equaled, at the end of the Third Age, the power and wisdom of many of the Maia. I know that's not canon; but the idea suits certainly my imagination.
Thanks for a wonderful presentation of the life and importance of Glorfindel
I think the reason for this difference if really just down to age and therefore to having been on valinor. Most elves by the third age would have been born long after the noldor left valinor. Its mentioned in the simarillion that the nolders eyes still burned with power, since they had so recently left valinor, or something along those lines. Very few elves other than the original noldor have ever returned from valinor. However i am not sure this applies to all, for example i am reasonably sure elrond has not been to valinor, he does however have one of the elven rings which could explain that
Jamie Cullum: Elrond was also raised by Noldor, sons of Fëanor. And though he was half human, in his ancestry was Melian, a Maiar.
@@YvetteArby yeah so he is actaully 1/4 maiar aswell. I also forgot about the sons of faenor as well, interesting to think what affect that may have had on him. Wasnt he already a noldor tho? Just a noldor born in middle earth
Jamie Cullum: Yes, he was part Noldor and part Sindar. I mentioned Feanor’s sons because they were born in the blessed land and saw the light of the two trees. Noldor as such were supposed to have bright eyes and I would think that being around them would have an effect. Thingol was said to have been content to gaze into the eyes of Melian, who had seen the trees.
Simply brilliant, thankyou
Ecthelion of the Fountain.
Cheers.
Slayer of Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs
Holy shit! I'm sorry I can't contain myself. A 40 minute philosophersgames video on one of the characters I am most interested in makes me extremely happy! Thanks Chris!
haha happy you like the topic. I also like Glorfindel a lot. Tried some new things editing wise for the video, I hope you like it. In my head the video was like 15-20 minutes ^^'
@@ThePhilosophersGames haha! Yes I can imagine! Well your longer videos truely are the best LotR videos/lectures I have seen on TH-cam. I have probably watched them more times than I'd like to admit 😆.
Your Cirdan video blew my mind on the shear scale of Tolkien's imagination. After listening to The Silmarillion a few times I realised how difficult the task of making that video must have been 😆. Take care dude and all the best👍🏽
Thanks a lot! I have always wondered about Glorfindel, who seems so anomalous. I think his death and rebirth contributes to this. Al;most all this was new to me. I will have to acquire The Fall of Gondolin; all I know is from The Silmarillion. I will be prepared for anomalies as you warn.
Better Glorfindel info in The Book of lost Tails, Book 2.
This was the change from the books that I was most upset about.
I actually blurted out "It was the HORSE, it was the HORSE!" when seeing it in the theater.
It wold have been such an epic scene . . . . Asfaloth doing the rescuing all by his own equine self.
Regarding Balrogs and helmets, it's entirely possible they may have had helmets during the time of Morgoth's reign, as they would have had access to all of Morgoth's resources to forge and maintain their helmets, but after Morgoth's defeat, the surviving Balrogs, such as Durin's Bane, went into hiding, and it's highly unlikely they would have had access to the skills or resources needed to maintain their helmets, and they probably just rusted/decayed away over time and were lost without any replacements. So the lack of a helmet on Durin's Bane may have been more of a reference to his fallen status then that they never had any and didn't think they needed any protection.
Sorry for the late answer. Yes that's an interesting idea. Quite possible.
Loved the video thank you
Thank you for making so many videos explaining the much of Tolkiens world of Middle earth. I recall my 1st experience with the lord of the rings was Ralph Bakshis attempt to do the story back in 1978 ( when I was a fresh 21 yrs of age) I was really impressed by the animation of the story. and was disappointed to learn that it was only the 1st book and a half of the LotR. I was further disappointed that it was never completed. I was in awe of the movie that i went out and bought the books and later learned that the Hobbit was the prequel So I ended up buying that book as well. I recall reading all 4 books in the space of 5 days. back in 1979. I also bought Christophers edited works on his fathers notes. The Silmarillion and Unfinished tales. Both of those were very convoluted and complex in the history of middle earth. Its nice to see that you have carefully explained as much as possible the history of the works in your videos ( yes I also have the extended version of all 3 of Peter Jacksons adaptation). It sort of makes up for Bakshi not finishing his adaptation.
Many people often overlook the fact that during the Fall of Gondolin, Lord Glorfindel AND Ecthelion of the Fountain BOTH slew Balrogs and BOTH died doing so. The Balrog which Ecthelion slew was Gothmog - the Lord of the Balrogs. Glorfindel and Ecthelion are two of the baddest dudes in all of Tolkien's Legendarium. Perhaps all of literature.
HEY Thank'z for all your work on such a long and detailed video very good listening I did enjoy it so much please more like This stand by'its'elf Vlogy STYLE!!
I'm in the middle of creating a Magic set around Lord of the Rings, and one of my sisters asked for a card based around Glorfindel. Your video was very good for my research.
Oh nice! Happy my video was helpful for you. Haven't played Magic in a long time, but was always fun :)
This is such a great in-depth analysis and such a treat! I just finished listening to your 5+ hour live session discussing Amazon's release of their latest tv series' artwork. Thank you so much for all your work. I'd been working too much at the hospital up to now which marks my country's latest losses to Covid19 Delta variant and haven't been taking time for myself. Your videos are truly the best medicine and always make me feel so much better and ready to face the world again. :)
happy you liked it :) Also thank you for doing such an important work esp. in these difficult times. All the best to you and your colleagues. Happy that my content helps you out relaxing a bit.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Edit 15min after posting: Go To Sleep! It must be around 4am there now lol Thank you for the perfect day off. All I did was be lazy and nap and listen to your live session and now I'm going to order a ton of food from my favorite SF Burmese restaurant and watch more videos and dream of chatting with Tolkein and his wife and kids and friends and you and your artists and followers in a cozy Shire pub with good beer and a warm fire = Best Day Off Ever.
Yes went to bed. I'm pretty destroyed today 😅
@@ThePhilosophersGames ugh I haven't slept yet - still listening to your videos - why don't i just go to sleep?! probably because i'm having fun listening. :)
I skipped around one of your podcasts as I often think I might try gaming to unwind after work. My problem is I don't want to kill things so I haven't found one that piques my interest yet. I wish there was one where I could wander Middle Earth and talk to interesting creatures. Is there a game like that?
@Tirzah G Middle-earth wise it will be difficult, killing things is pretty common in games. There are some great games though that might be interesting. E.g. "Journey" might be a game to check out, which I also often recommend.
Maybe if you like underwater stuff ABZÛ could be interesting too. Or Subnautica (I think it also has very little combat).
Then there is Portal 1 and 2, or if you like the art style and detective work Return of the Obra Dinn might be interesting. The guy who made the latter also made a game called Papers, please (where you control passports, which sounds stupid, but it's a masterpiece). That game can be quite stressful and also depressing (in a compelling and unique way).
There is also another unusual game called The Stanley Parable. It deconstructs video games and can be quite funny. Not sure if it's great though to start with gaming. Same with it's "successor" The Beginner's Guide. Both very interesting games though.
Antichamber is also a strange puzzle game, which is really unique.
Platformers maybe FEZ or Limbo might be interesting (that one is a bit darker though same with Inside). Though most have some killing in some way, else i would recommend something like Ori and the blind Forest or Ori and the Will of the Wisps (this one can be quite difficult at times though).
Not to mention the many great Point & Click Adventures like Day of the Tentacle (classic), the Monkey Island games (classics), or even something like Deponia (and the other Daedalic Entertainment games).
Speaking of classics and it might be a bit cliché: Minecraft. It can be played in many different ways, but you can also turn off combat or simply avoid night.
There are also builder games like City Skylines or the Anno games (and has see combat though). I liked Anno 1404 and Anno 1800 a lot.
List ordered somewhat by highest recommendation :
- Journey (Adventure)
- Portal 1 & 2 (First Person Puzzle Platfromer)
- ABZÛ (exploration adventure thing)
- Day of the Tentacle (Point & Click Adventure)
- Monkey Island (Point & Click Adventure)
- Return of the Obra Dinn (Adventure)
- FEZ (Puzzle Platformer)
- The Stanley Parable (meta adventure?)
- Deponia (Point & Click Adventure)
- Antichamber (Puzzle)
- Inside (Puzzle Platformer)
- Firewatch (Adventure)
- Talos Principle (Puzzle)
- The Witness (Puzzle)
- Tretris Effect (Puzzle)
- Animal Crossing (Nintendo only)
- Mirror's Edge 1 & 2 (Parkour platforming Adventure thing)
- Untitled Goose Game (funny Puzzle game)
Additional maybe games:
- Limbo (spider warning; Puzzle Platformer)
- Minecraft
- The Beginner's Guide (meta Adventure thing?)
- Subnautica (original or Subnautica Zero)
- Ori (Blind Forest and Will of the Wisps; they are Metroidvanias)
- City Skylines (city building)
- Anno 1404 or 1800 (city building)
- Gone Home (walking simulator)
- Stardew Valley (simulation rpg?)
- Shadow of the Colossus (has combat, but it's unique and also kind of sad)
- Last Guardian (has combat also very unique)
- Nintendo has many games with no or little killing (Mario, Splatoon, etc)
- Kerbal Space Program (if you like Rocket Science; really complex game)
- Disco Elysium (RPG)
- Deus Ex series (RPG a pacifist run is possible in those with like a hand full of exceptions)
- Celeste (platformer, so lots of dying, but no combat)
haha I would love to recommend Dark Souls, but it has mainly combat in it and can be quite frustrating and difficult, but in a weird way it's also great. One of my favourite games of all time.
Hope that helps ^^
Thanks a million!!!!!! Just try to imagine The power of Fingolfin fighting Morgoth itself )))
This is well done.
Thank you ^^
VERY enjoyable! Thank you! Thank you!
No problem, happy you liked it and thank you too for commenting :)
@@ThePhilosophersGames You're quite welcome!
I re watch your videos a couple of times. But when you post new videos, my mind goes like:
"What about them? They look fressssshh"
great content!
Thank you :)
Thanks for the awesome content
No problem, thank you for watching and coming back to my channel :) happy you liked it!
@@ThePhilosophersGames
You're welcome, you make some of the best Middle Earth videos on here and I really appreciate the way you use Tolkien's original pronunciations
6:41 sounded like keep it 100 but "keep it aragorn" instead. New favorite phrase that only exists in my imagination.
Much like Sam, I was always most captivated by stories of the elves. ELVES, sir!
haha yes I can relate to that too ^^
brovold72: Me too!!
And the elf who gets reincarnated and imbued with the power of a Miar for his valor and sacrifice during the Sack of Gondolin and the defeating of a mighty Balrog, is... Glorfindel, Ladies and Gentlemen!
Ecthelion: Thank you, thank you. What an honor it is to be chosen for this reward.
haha poor Ecthelion ^^
It is not impossible that Echtelion was reborn too, but he might didn’t want to go back to ME after all.
This is the character more than anything I want to see on screen
yes agreed ^^
Great stuff
Thank you ^^
Keep going mate, love your detailed breakdowns
I'll try ^^ Happy you like my "style" :) Was a bit worried about this one, but so far people seem to like it.
ThePhilosophersGames: Are you kidding? I *loved* it!!
still think it's sadd they replaced the strongest and bravest elf, Glorfindel, with a character that is barely mentioned in the books, Arwin.
Glorfendal was a serious dude man.
Would you be able to make a video on the silmerillian I'm not sure if I've seen one or just you mentioned it in other videos, but its my favourate book, like the creation of the foundations of this earth, tho I think at this stage we are past the 4th age or restating an new wave of eru's illuminations.
The closest thing I have are my Sauron and my History of the Elves videos (both cover a lot of the same events though):
th-cam.com/video/xrX4WwgBuyA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/JgcnVsMAnMo/w-d-xo.html
There are some more bigger videos in my mind, but could take some time.
You inspire me to keep reading the Silmarillion.
That's great ^^ It can be tough to read. I put it aside too, when I first tried reading it.
Excellent
Thank you :)
I love your use of Rrrrrrrrrs and Llllllllllllllls. 😌
This was absolutely fucking incredible
Thank you ^^ Happy you enjoyed it so much!
do not worry about the way you anounce the names I am an afikaans speaker and find some things in tolkien books hard to say. I love his works and he is great.
Balrogs and Trolls were smaller than we remember from the movies. Also Ents, which are well described in LoTR.
Another case is Ancalagon 😁, but I find his story to be more like a legend in the legendarium, than strict depiction.
Yes I think that is true for a lot of First Age stuff. Even the size of the Balrog there. The Balrog of Moria is described as :
"What it was could not be seen: it was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater;"
@@ThePhilosophersGames Agree 👍 . Might see many tales as part of the mythology.
Balrogs are clearly bigger creatures than humans, but I doubt them to be size of FoTRs one. Imagine to beat that as an elf or atani 😏.
Fine video
Thank you :)
Ah, it has arrived :)
haha yes ^^ It took so long to make, I don't know why xD
I have both Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit trilogies on dvd, I really enjoy this presentation also. I’m 65, and that’s okay😀.
Fine video! Thank you.
Wonder if Glorfindel could have given Mithrandir tips on how to take down a balrog before the Fellowship set off from Rivendell. Possibly the only living authority on defeating and killing such a maia. Mind you, from the text of the LotR, they did not know the identity of Durin's Bane. In the movie, Saruman knows and has a book that illustrates and describes who/what is waiting in Moria.
Thank you :) I guess he could ^^ It's interesting that Gandalf also fights with a weapon from Gondolin.
Yes in the books it's a surprise, that it's actually a Balrog. they only knew that the awoke something:
Gandalf Says (in A Journey in the Dark, LotR):
The Dwarves tell no tale; but even as mithril was the foundation of their wealth, so also it was their destruction: they delved too greedily and too deep, and disturbed that from which they fled, Durin’s Bane. Of what they brought to light the Orcs have gathered nearly all, and given it in tribute to Sauron, who covets it.
I think in the film they simply did it with the illustrated book to have a small exposition scene.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Thanks! Yes, you're right about Gandalf/Mithrandir wielding Glamdring, formerly Turgon (King of Gondolin)'s sword, when battling the balrog. And when Gandalf says (in that quotation), "that from which they fled," it suggests that neither he nor anybody else knows the identity of Durin's Bane up to that time.
You're also correct about the short exposition scene featuring Christopher Lee paging through a book of lore in the film, suggesting that Saruman knows more than others about such perils, even if it also raises a question about the origin of the information in the book that he consults.
Losing ourselves in the niggling details...
Paris Simons: Ach! Saruman was such a snake! Christopher Lee plays villains so well!!
@@YvetteArby You're right, both about Saruman and Mr. Lee's brilliant work! An example of the latter, I loved Mr. Lee's portrayal of the Comte de Rochefort in The Three Musketeers and The Four Musketeers movies from the early 1970s.
Thank you very much for another great video!
Let me first say that I appreciate all the Tolkien loremasters and the work you do.
I disagree with the loremaster's idea of cannon, as I see it as simple - The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and the LotR, but I want to credit you for at least talking about the problematic nature of combining details from non-cannon (IMO) works with cannon.
That being said I do take slight issue with the descriptions of Feanor and Celegorm saying they were "crazy." I don't think they fit that description, though both had dark sides, no question.
I also, of course, take issue with that same-old description of Gil-galad as Orodreth's son. The Silmarillion is cannon and clearly says he is Fingon's son, though I have that same argument with seemingly every loremaster.
Lastly, the drawing of Mandos looks like a woman, and the drawing of Lorien looks like a man. Not really important, just saying.
Thank you :) I usually try to discuss what Tolkien thought and do not set HoMe material as granted. I'm a bit more "generous" with the Unfinished Tales though, because I really like this book and it adds some nice additional information to LotR and the Appendices (as long as there are no contradictions). But yes much appreciated, i really try to highlight the problematic nature of canon in Tolkien's works (at least in my new videos).
If Gil-galad would have been the son of Fingon, Turgon would not have become High King or this at least would require an explanation why Turgon got High King (e.g. Gil-galad was too young, had no established realm, etc). Christopher Tolkien also says:
"Much closer analysis of the admittedly extremely complex material than I had made twenty years ago makes it clear that Gil-galad as the son of Fingon (see XI.56, 243) was an ephemeral idea."
He calls it "an an editorial alteration of Felagund". Gil-galad was planned to be Finrod's son (and also Galardiel's brother at some point ^^ but later Galadriel became the sister of Finrod). Tolkien had the idea once to make Gil-galad the son of Fingon, but later noted: "in the final [genealogical] table they were struck out, with the note that Fingon 'had no child or wife'."
Ofc Christopher Tolkien notes:
"There can be no doubt that this was my father's last word on the subject; but nothing of this late and radically altered conception ever touched the existing narratives, and it was obviously impossible to introduce it into the published Silmarillion. It would nonetheless have been very much better to have left Gil-galad's parentage obscure."
For me the canon is only "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit" (with some exceptions, because The Hobbit is a highly complex topic and we have 2 different versions of it). The Silmarillion I would also consider "canon" or close to canon for the most part, but if there are mistakes (ad there are some, I will correct them). Gil-galad being Fingon's son makes fat less sense. I would even say beyond LotR and Hobbit canon loses meaning. Ofc for a video where I tell and explain a story, I need "canon" in some form, but I can only give people my own viewpoint on it. Christopher Tokien chose the texts for the Silmarillion in a way, that it fits to LotR. J. R. R. Tolkien's Silamrillion would have looked different and I'm pretty sure it would have required a Second Edition of The Lord of the Rings (same with the Hobbit). Considering this and what Christopher Tolkien had to "sacrifice" and edit, I think the Silamrillion needs some perspective. But ofc. for my videos I try to take it as canon (minus mistakes and plus some additions from the Unfinished Tales, Letters, poems and to some degree from HoMe).
I still think Fëanor and his sons were absolutely insane. If you become a murderer of your own kin, you qualify for your sanity being questioned. Let me just quote this from the Silamrillion:
"but Dior was slain also, and Nimloth his wife, and the cruel servants of Celegorm seized his young sons and left them
to starve in the forest."
Ofc: "Of this Maedhros indeed repented, and sought for them long in the woods of Doriath; but his
search was unavailing, and of the fate of Eluréd and Elurín no tale tells."
This cruelty is beyond words for me, those young Elven boys were about 6 years old at this time. You don't put 2 6 year old into a dark forest to starve. And Maglor and Maedhros later almost killed Elrond and Elros, but maybe they had a bit kindness left in their heart and spared them and Maglor even became their foster father. Still it's described as the most brutal kinslaying and they bascially attacked a refugee camp with those lucky to survive the wrath of Morgoth (including women and children). Ofc they are complex characters and just calling them "crazy" is a bit lazy, but this video was already 42 minutes long and i had to take some shortcuts ^^
Regarding the art: I only have the permission of 4 (5 bit the fifth does not make LotR arts works) artists to use their artwork in my videos and I'm very grateful for this. Kimberly80 is extremely talented and takes her freedom and inspirations to express herself. I have no alternatives for the Valar depiction too and I'm happy I have something to show at all ^^ I really like her style and art works though. She manages to capture expressions, emotions in the faces so well.
@@ThePhilosophersGames I appreciate the long reply. Obviously it is difficult to have a discussion on youtube.
The Silmarillion completes the story; you need it. We know Tolkien wanted to publish it, trying to do so before LotR. The Silmarillion is the only other book to be written expressly to be consistent with The Hobbit and LotR. Why? Because it is canon. The other works were never adapted to be consistent because they aren't canon.
The Silmarillion is arguably the best work of the Legendarium, and probably the most talked about. Chris Tolkien besmirches his own work by digging into what his father might have wanted done differently, but really, it makes no difference in my eyes. JK Rowling has the same problem, trying to change what was written on the page, but even she can't change her own canon. The books as written determine that.
Regardless of all other arguments, the lineage given in The Silmarillion makes the most sense. Once Maehdros passed the lineage to Fingolfin it makes no sense for that House to lose the kingship as long as an heir exists, which one certainly did in Elrond even to the end of the Third Age. Yes, it also makes little sense that Turgon would ever be King, but I think we both know that the Fall of Gondolin is the most problematic chapter in The Silmarillion. Beloved by JRR as the first part of the Legendarium he ever wrote, Chris was obviously loathe to change things, even if it didn't consistently line up with LotR. Chris removed the army of balrogs, but Ecthelion's fight with Gothmog at the Fountain was just too good to leave out, and once that bottle had been popped there was little reason to not include Glorfindel's slaying of a balrog as well. Neither are consistent with Durin's Bane in LotR, but it is what it is. They are great parts of a great story and consistency be damned in this case.
Also, the entire story of Turin Turambar and The Children of Hurin is also different if Orodreth has a male heir.
Lastly, Orodreth, as written in The Silmarillion, is probably the most pathetic High Noldor in the book. He comes off as timid, indecisive and ineffectual. Nothing like the heroic steadfastness of Fingon the Valiant. Making Gil-Galad Fingon's son instantly gives him credibility as a legend.
JRR called it a Kinslaying, but as far as I can tell, as the son of Finwe and Miriel, Feanor bore no kinship to the Teleri other than them being elves. His father was just slain, and he seemed to be the other one in Aman interested in bringing the murderer to justice. The Teleri, IMO, made one of the worst decisions in the Legendarium by decided to trade their lives for their ships. I understand their first refusal, but once the Noldor drew their swords, the argument should have ended. Nothing built by hand is worth someone's life. Not that they deserved what happened to them, but the Teleri made a very poor decision and paid for it. By the time of Dior's slaying, MUCH had happened to inflame the bitterness between the Noldor and the realm of Dorian. That was certainly a dark deed, but done in a dark time.
@@shawnn7502
Fantastic reply. I enjoyed reading all your insight. Maybe you could have your own TH-cam Channel.
Imagine a 1v1 between Glorfindel and Sauron, I think Glorfindel would win tbh
Yes Sauron would not have much to laugh ^^
Nah.
@@dominicomegon4714 Yah.
Dude, Glorfindel is no joke but Sauron is crazy powerful. He took out Finrod in duel of Mastery of Fate level spells. It wouldn't just be as easy as you imagine taking on something like Sauron. He's smart as hell and knows a lot more tricks than pretty much everybody.
Finrod > Glorfidnel
Finrod vs Sauron:
He chanted a song of wizardry,
Of piercing, opening, of treachery,
Revealing, uncovering, betraying.
Then sudden Felagund there swaying
Sang in answer a song of staying,
Resisting, battling against power,
Of secrets kept, strength like a tower,
And trust unbroken, freedom, escape;
Of changing and of shifting shape,
Of snares eluded, broken traps,
The prison opening, the chain that snaps.
Backwards and forwards swayed their song.
Reeling and foundering, as ever more strong
The chanting swelled, Felagund fought,
And all the magic and might he brought
Of Elvenesse into his words.
Softly in the gloom they heard the birds
Singing afar in Nargothrond,
The sighing of the sea beyond,
Beyond the western world, on sand,
On sand of pearls in Elvenland.
Then the gloom gathered; darkness growing
In Valinor, the red blood flowing
Beside the Sea, where the Noldor slew
The Foamriders, and stealing drew
Their white ships with their white sails
From lamplit havens. The wind wails,
The wolf howls. The ravens flee.
The ice mutters in the mouths of the Sea.
The captives sad in Angband mourn.
Thunder rumbles, the fires burn -
And Finrod fell before the throne.
21:02 Glaurung Father of Dragons. Really big and scary lol.
haha yes :D It's like a bad running gag from my old video about dragons. I have no artwork I can use for Glaurung, so I have to find a work around ^^
yes finally
What if The Mouth Of Sauron And Gandalf fought but only one on one while the others just watched and were spectators and commentators?
Gandalf is one of the wise. Wisdom is his power. But Gandalf' is an angelic being and as a result he could not even hurt Gandalf (the White). If the Mouth of Sauron is smart, he would not try to fight him.
Well done, thank you! May I ask about your origins and accent?
Thank you :)
Sure, I'm from Germany.
I like how you pronounce the names.
Thank you, happy you like it :) I put in some work to find out the pronunciations (Tolkien wrote a chapter on the Elvish languages, but there are also names from other languages). In some cases it's quite complicated ^^ (ofc sometimes I mess up too)
"Who is Glorfindel " you ask?.....One tough dude!
haha yes that is true ^^
the way you say "aragorn" makes me wanna take a bite of a brick. otherwise great content
In the Bakshi version, it was Legolas they met on the road.
oh interesting
The Istati didn't arrive in Middle Earth until the Third Age. At 37:00 you say he arrived with the two Blue Wizards somewhere around SA1600. Tolkien may have changed some dates but this change would of had the Istati around when Sauron was thrown down the first time. They most definitely weren't in Middle-Earth yet.
Unless I am missing something. 😬
I'm so sorry. I hate to be that guy.. I love your videos!! They are absolutely my favorite of all the LOTR channels.
Yes originally Tolkien wrote they all arrived during the Third Age, but in his late writings he seemed to have changed his mind. We find the information about Glorfindel in Peoples of Middle-earth (XIII last Writings, Glorfindel):
"We may then best suppose that Glorfindel returned during the Second Age, before the 'shadow' fell on Numenor, and while the Numenoreans were welcomed by the Eldar as powerful allies. His return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gilgalad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them. It might, therefore, have been as early as Second Age 1200, when Sauron came in person to Lindon, and attempted to deceive Gil-galad, but was rejected and dismissed.(14) But it may have been, perhaps more probably, as late as c.1600, the Year of Dread, when Barad-dur was completed and the One Ring forged, and Celebrimbor at last became aware of the trap into which he had fallen."
and (XIII last Writings, The Five Wizards):
"The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age."
Ofc this is from some notes of Tolkien and how canon this is, can be debated, but imo it does not conflict the main works too much and makes sense to some degree. Esp. considering that we don't know too much about the Blue Wizards anyway.
Also thank you, much appreciated :) Don't worry, if there is a mistake, it's fair to hint at it. I think in this case it is just a relatively unknown note of Tolkien I use.
@@ThePhilosophersGames
Cool cool cool
I've never read that version. But I know Tolkien kept changing things all the way up to when he died.
On a side note I always hoped his kid would find some writings stashed away somewhere that gave us an idea what the Blue Wizards were up to. In my head canon they went onto be some of the wizards that we in this world have stories about.
Merlin maybe.. or even some of the characters that over time morphed into demigods. Like Loki.. or Mad Sweeny from the Irish or Celtic mythologies.
But alas, nothing has ever surfaced.. as far as I know anyways.
Dunedain is not one of Strider/Aragorn's names. It is the name of his race.
?
Some call him "The Dúnadan", not sure if you mean that. But yes ofc he is a Dúnadan. It's the singular of Dúnedain.
I was always secretly in love with Fabio. Anyone here remember FABIO??
Bah! Still with the smack talk about Feanor and his sons? They are just misunderstood!
>_>