That's impressive. I shoot a Danzig made ZG62 in the UK, pre-Beck - and spend ages winding card sabot, then slitting them with a Dremel setup. I'm intrigued by the success you've had so far!
Have you thought of bevelling the leading edge of the sabot "inwards" so that there is just that much more ability to grip the air and separate from the bullet?
7:20 - I don't know if you discuss this later in the vid but I'm pausing this to say it now: carbon fiber-nylon is very probably NOT the best idea for the longevity of your barrel. CF-Anything plastics require a hardened nozzle to print (usually just hardened steel, maybe with a non-stick coating, but there are more exotic synthetic ruby and diamond tips, normally a printer just uses brass nozzles) because the finely chopped fibers are extremely abrasive. I'd be pretty worried about the interior of the barrel with prolonged used. almost immediate edit: 7:35 this surprises me, of the filaments shown PETG is generally considered the easiest to print (it and PLA are the defacto "standard" filaments these days) and I certainly find it easier and more consistent than TPU. Price wise PETG and TPU should be about the same, with PC and CF-PA11 both being a fair bit more expensive.
@@thebotrchap Right, forgot to edit after seeing it fail to separate several times. Knocking itself out of the running. I also didn't want you or anyone else screwing up nice equipment, in case they didn't get that far in the vid.
Another idea is a mold. Looks like it would be straightforward. At work we often make 3D printed molds, hit them with release, and inject urethane resin (with a syringe or caulking gun, and we use the smooth-on brand). Works great, and once you make a mold you can turn out parts pretty fast without using 3D printing time. I bet a high durometer urethane would be durable and reusable. It tends to be sticky, though, so maybe you could mix in some graphite or tungsten disulfide powder into the resin? Either way printing a full platen mold would probably let you crank out a few hundred a day with not much work.
Hi, 3D printer creator here (seriously) .Not surprised about PETG. If you really want to find the bits, print with fluorescent filament and go out at night with a UV torch. Also, try PLA. People will tell you it's too weak, but as the inventor of PLA filament I can tell you I'm still using a mallet printed from it over a decade ago. Plus it is biodegradable. Eventually...
Years ago, I read in a book (I do not remember a title or author) that Dreyse or his family has paper factory (and this is why ammo for his rifle uses paper sabot!) and sabots were made from wet paper pulp pressed in dies. If you think about this, that type of sabots have many good things - they are easy to manufacture in large numbers, they are light, durable, can have properties of cleaning a barrel, can have complex profile and others. I think they can be quite easy to replicate, also process itself sounds just... fun :)
The Beck obturation looks very much like the De Bange cannon obturation method, exept that uses an asbestos pad instead of rubber. I did wonder what that "singed wad of stuff" was being fished out of the breach, but makes perfect sense that under combat use it would have been pushed out by the next round and blown out the barrel.
TPU is tough stuff. shouldn't have any issues with it shattering. PETG looks like it provides good results. Price isn't bad for either, but they're both cheaper than the engineering filaments. Glad to see how well those sabots work. I'd avoid carbon fiber filled materials for this application. I could see that abrading the bore over a lot of rounds.
If the CF-nylon had given best results, I still would suggest steering clear. It is very abrasive. People generally use hardened nozzles to print with it.
My wife would have been considered a Prussian and I can honestly state there is no such thing as a "sensible" Prussian. I think I heard Bismarck rolling in his grave when you said that.
I'm wondering if the tapered waist in the injection molded example, might not be due to design, but due to material shrinkage during casting. If you have injection molded parts with variable wall thicknesses, you tend to get shrinkage at the thicker areas (think inside of an ABS box). If I was designing it for injection molding, I would probably not have a solid wall, but a series of 6-9 ribs of the same thickness as the external wall, shaped to accept the bullet
I totally understand 3D printing batches of sabots for the Dreyse. But just from the perspective of testing and investigating: could something like papier-mâché in a mould work? It’d presumably be far lighter than polymer and may even be more likely to act like the original paper sabots? Might be talking out of my arse but it sounds possible 🤷♂️
You should collaborate with the team taofledermaus as they have been shooting similar things for years though rifled and smoothbore guns ..... things could get interesting 🤔
Hmmm.. looks like another rabbit hole to dive into! Unless of course your printer chappie is able to produce in bulk.. also does he make Chassepot seals? they are getting very thin on the ground since the bloke in Denmark stopped making them.. I blew another one a couple of weeks ago! As someone says, the real solution is to injection mould them like the German chap does, but the die costs can be significant! Are you going to let us know what the dimensions are? ...asking for a friend!
@@thebotrchap Polycarbonate confetti might be an interesting effect too. As an aside I wonder if any of the degradable materials that they're now using in shotgun cartridges would be any good. Mind you I don't know if they're available in printable/mouldable form.
When you said polycarbonate I said to myself that's gonna be the trouble Maker because it reacts to heat and it's a harder plastic than the others. Pet reacts to heat also but mainly by shrinking.
@@thebotrchap The advantages I perceive are potentially more consistent release and seating. If PETG is working, try PLA plus, it's recyclable also flexible and cheap. There is a lot of hype about materials. Among the ridged ones, I find performance is closely aligned to print settings.
For the case? Technically yes but probably more trouble than it’s worth. Need to find a coin with exactly the right diameter, source the tubes and then cut the tubes to length.
![ง้อ (ALRIGHT) - FOURTH Prod. by URBOYTJ [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qs8ZeV6Dqj8/mqdefault.jpg)
3d printing really has been a boon for hte entirety of the firearm community
"The four designs..."
"Three, my lord."
"Three!"
I thought the truck going by when you changed materials was dramatic foreboding music.
That's impressive. I shoot a Danzig made ZG62 in the UK, pre-Beck - and spend ages winding card sabot, then slitting them with a Dremel setup. I'm intrigued by the success you've had so far!
Have you thought of bevelling the leading edge of the sabot "inwards" so that there is just that much more ability to grip the air and separate from the bullet?
Not much material to work on right at the top unfortunately.
Love the Black Treacle tin. A man of good taste (no pun intended).
To those on the other side of the pond this man is referring to molasses.
7:20 - I don't know if you discuss this later in the vid but I'm pausing this to say it now: carbon fiber-nylon is very probably NOT the best idea for the longevity of your barrel.
CF-Anything plastics require a hardened nozzle to print (usually just hardened steel, maybe with a non-stick coating, but there are more exotic synthetic ruby and diamond tips, normally a printer just uses brass nozzles) because the finely chopped fibers are extremely abrasive. I'd be pretty worried about the interior of the barrel with prolonged used.
almost immediate edit: 7:35 this surprises me, of the filaments shown PETG is generally considered the easiest to print (it and PLA are the defacto "standard" filaments these days) and I certainly find it easier and more consistent than TPU. Price wise PETG and TPU should be about the same, with PC and CF-PA11 both being a fair bit more expensive.
The CF is out of the running but thanks anyway.
@@thebotrchap Right, forgot to edit after seeing it fail to separate several times. Knocking itself out of the running.
I also didn't want you or anyone else screwing up nice equipment, in case they didn't get that far in the vid.
I will be watching. It is very interesting. I do not own one and never will. It is a mesh of old and new. Now to see how good it can be.
Another idea is a mold. Looks like it would be straightforward. At work we often make 3D printed molds, hit them with release, and inject urethane resin (with a syringe or caulking gun, and we use the smooth-on brand). Works great, and once you make a mold you can turn out parts pretty fast without using 3D printing time. I bet a high durometer urethane would be durable and reusable. It tends to be sticky, though, so maybe you could mix in some graphite or tungsten disulfide powder into the resin? Either way printing a full platen mold would probably let you crank out a few hundred a day with not much work.
Hi, 3D printer creator here (seriously) .Not surprised about PETG. If you really want to find the bits, print with fluorescent filament and go out at night with a UV torch.
Also, try PLA. People will tell you it's too weak, but as the inventor of PLA filament I can tell you I'm still using a mallet printed from it over a decade ago. Plus it is biodegradable. Eventually...
Interesting thanks 😊
PLA+ is the filament of choice for printing actual whole guns! People underestimate the humble "entry level" filaments.
Agreed, PLA has been the best filament for my Lee Drive Key Slug tails I created. Easily able to handle pretty stout Red Dot and Green Dot loads.
I was just going to suggest PLA+. PLA and + are personal favorites for everything I make.
Years ago, I read in a book (I do not remember a title or author) that Dreyse or his family has paper factory (and this is why ammo for his rifle uses paper sabot!) and sabots were made from wet paper pulp pressed in dies. If you think about this, that type of sabots have many good things - they are easy to manufacture in large numbers, they are light, durable, can have properties of cleaning a barrel, can have complex profile and others.
I think they can be quite easy to replicate, also process itself sounds just... fun :)
Excellent informative work there bravo
Again I could smell and taste the black powder there ahhh my re enactment days ☺️☺️☺️
Going to be smelling lots more this weekend as I am part of a cannon crew at Tewkesbury medieval show (free to get in )
Antique treacle tin, there - Tate & Lyle have removed the dead lion logo recently.
Oh no!
I just checked our stash, happy to report that all the tins still have a fly-infested decomposing lion on them.
Incase lions get offended and form a lion lives matter group.
The Beck obturation looks very much like the De Bange cannon obturation method, exept that uses an asbestos pad instead of rubber.
I did wonder what that "singed wad of stuff" was being fished out of the breach, but makes perfect sense that under combat use it would have been pushed out by the next round and blown out the barrel.
TPU is tough stuff. shouldn't have any issues with it shattering. PETG looks like it provides good results. Price isn't bad for either, but they're both cheaper than the engineering filaments. Glad to see how well those sabots work.
I'd avoid carbon fiber filled materials for this application. I could see that abrading the bore over a lot of rounds.
CF is out of the running.
If the CF-nylon had given best results, I still would suggest steering clear. It is very abrasive. People generally use hardened nozzles to print with it.
Lovin the Lions syrup tin.
Always like all the nerdy details.
Good job Chappie.
My wife would have been considered a Prussian and I can honestly state there is no such thing as a "sensible" Prussian. I think I heard Bismarck rolling in his grave when you said that.
Always interesting watching these videos 👌
I'm wondering if the tapered waist in the injection molded example, might not be due to design, but due to material shrinkage during casting. If you have injection molded parts with variable wall thicknesses, you tend to get shrinkage at the thicker areas (think inside of an ABS box).
If I was designing it for injection molding, I would probably not have a solid wall, but a series of 6-9 ribs of the same thickness as the external wall, shaped to accept the bullet
I totally understand 3D printing batches of sabots for the Dreyse. But just from the perspective of testing and investigating: could something like papier-mâché in a mould work? It’d presumably be far lighter than polymer and may even be more likely to act like the original paper sabots? Might be talking out of my arse but it sounds possible 🤷♂️
You should collaborate with the team taofledermaus as they have been shooting similar things for years though rifled and smoothbore guns ..... things could get interesting 🤔
Hmmm.. looks like another rabbit hole to dive into! Unless of course your printer chappie is able to produce in bulk.. also does he make Chassepot seals? they are getting very thin on the ground since the bloke in Denmark stopped making them.. I blew another one a couple of weeks ago!
As someone says, the real solution is to injection mould them like the German chap does, but the die costs can be significant!
Are you going to let us know what the dimensions are?
...asking for a friend!
I Am the Great Chapholio, I need TPU for my Gunhole!
These look amazingly like Prometheus Paragon pellets for pre charged pneumatic air rifles.
It would be very interesting experiment to try a high-speed camera on.
Yeah, I'm baffled with what is happening to the PETG sabots.
@@thebotrchap Polycarbonate confetti might be an interesting effect too.
As an aside I wonder if any of the degradable materials that they're now using in shotgun cartridges would be any good.
Mind you I don't know if they're available in printable/mouldable form.
When you said polycarbonate I said to myself that's gonna be the trouble Maker because it reacts to heat and it's a harder plastic than the others. Pet reacts to heat also but mainly by shrinking.
Laboratory filter paper does not absorb water.
Whatever happens we have got Dryse gun and..
...breechloading artillery, rapid deployment by rail.
…and Auftragstaktik
Have you considered ribbing the projectile cavity, toward the base.
Now there's an idea!
@@thebotrchap
The advantages I perceive are potentially more consistent release and seating.
If PETG is working, try PLA plus, it's recyclable also flexible and cheap.
There is a lot of hype about materials. Among the ridged ones, I find performance is closely aligned to print settings.
Have you thought about using paper tubes made for coins?
For the case? Technically yes but probably more trouble than it’s worth. Need to find a coin with exactly the right diameter, source the tubes and then cut the tubes to length.
RWS 5608 primers?
Murom large rifle Berdan