Stop Overthinking & Missing Value in Poker! (Pro Tips)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video, "Stop Overthinking & Missing Value in Poker! (Pro Tips)" we hear about the common pitfall of overthinking in poker. Join us as we review a hand where our caller makes a crucial mistake by never putting in a raise with a strong made hand. Due to overthinking and overestimating his opponent's tendency to slow play, he ends up missing out on hundreds of dollars in value. Ironically, he himself is slow playing a big hand.
We'll break down the hand, highlight where things went wrong, and provide actionable tips to ensure you don't fall into the same trap. Perfect for live cash game players looking to refine their strategy and maximize their profits.
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0:00 - Intro
3:52 - Preflop
5:36 - Flop
9:22 - Turn
13:00 - River
16:30 - Hero Decision
16:40 - Reveal
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How often do you make a large deviation mistake by overthinking? Once a month, week, session, multiple times/session?
Generally once every few sessions. Usually with speech play involved. I’m good at math, but level myself relatively often.
Online, at most twice a session. Live, amidst never
This was underthinking. All day long. 365/7.
He calls them old coffee types but never raises. 😂
bro is a coffee reg
Tight young regs at low stakes aren't very self aware
It was pretty funny.
you have to protect against getting trapped by *checks notes* just check-calling the 3rd nuts the whole way!
OMDC old man decaf coffee
Takes an OMC to know an OMC.
Classic CLP caller, the other players are bad but not me and then described how horrendous he plays. Thank the lard for the poker ego that keeps the game profitable. It's hard to imagine this call went all the way to the reveal with zero mention of heart draws.
What's funny is that even though he played it incorrectly he probably made more money by not shoving turn. He's probably generating a lot of folds that way. The guy MIGHT call with the fd, but not 100%. Not shoving river is awful though.
Both caller and Bart mentioned flush draws on the flop and turn, so your last sentence is beyond confusing.
The best thing about this call is that the caller thought he was a competent player and tried to undermine everyone else, but he played it the wrong way.
When you hear this call you know poker is alive and well!
@@supersmoo7377 yup! Lol
This nitty style of thinking is how people will lose in the long run. Putting someone on an exact hand instead of their range will cause tunnel vision and make people overfold and undervalue their hands way too often. If the villain has pocket 10s he can have my money because that's just poker sometimes... BUT, if you place them on a RANGE instead of a specific HAND, you will realize it is profitable to get all the money in 95% of the time with this type of runout and action.
Correct.
I think the drop/rake is how people will lose in the long run. But I think you're right - I know from experience - scared money playing timid being scared of MUBs is how I lose. Either that or I'm just a numbskull.
@@32266ms definitely the rake and other costs will make people lose money. However I was speaking more conceptually rather than literally. The difference between a winning and a losing player is: the winning player is able to win the maximum and lose the minimum. In this particular case, while he was going to win no matter what, winning the maximum here is vital so that when he eventually gets coolered (it happens to all of us), the times he won the maximum will help offset those unavoidable losses -- thus allowing him to be a profitable player in the long run.
yeah, like 200bb deep, set over set, just GG. the times you lose value vs hearts, AK, Ax hearts, 33, AT etc, way, way worse.
Not just nitty, poor hand reading.
Preflop: passive line.
Flop: passive line.
Turn: passive line.
River: "I'm worried about TT."
Don't call baby pairs out of position if you're going to tie yourself in knots like this. And for goodness sake raise the turn.
"I have a tendency to bet thin" - please forgive my scepticism
I don’t like to judge the callers because I am no expert, but I did laugh when he said the river is where he got lost because it didn’t seem like he ever knew where he was at any point in the hand.
I bluffed a guy like this off an overpair last night at a 2/5 game on the river when all the draws missed because I knew he would not put $700 in when there was only $400 in the pot with just one pair. Everybody hates on nit regs. I personally love them and they are easy to play against.
Yeah the only problem is they can be hard to spot because they appear similar to TAG pros, you sometimes need a few hours or more to comfortably be able to get a hand that exposes them as a nit fish.
@@natejohnson3638🤫
The amount of value hero left on the table by never raising at any point is absolutely criminal. I can't believe he called this in. I'd never tell a soul 😂
This hero is a complete fish.
1000 percent and so unaware that he bad mouths both competitors.
😅
@@Nikkithedog-t6b I love how he still tries to defend himself as if anybody else has his set beat because " it's the morning crowd, you know how they are" and then the results show the exact opposite.
Even against a 0% raiser hero is way ahead of slow plays. Maybe loses to TT but beats 33, A3, A4, T9… Players obsessed with trapping never fold those hands.
“Only missed out on her $200” is also a wild comment. Thats like a day’s ev for this game.
I like how AQ suited played the hand
River is a bit gross with the tight lady betting again
LOL the audacity to say I have a tendency to bet thin at the end is what got me. No sir, YOU are the definition of omc, not the lady who raised pre or the guy who bet with the nfd.
I lol’d at this also 😂😂😀
Gotta pile money on the flop or turn
Even the river would have been fine. Had the best hand all the way through and should have known it
@@finncrowley3624 river is the worst though. Ax hearts will call raise on turn but not river
This is horrendous. Like one of the worst things I've ever seen. Only worse played hand I can recall seeing was seeing a lady face up fold middle set on the flop putting her opponent on exactly top set when he just had top pair.
"It's the morning crowd, Bart, they play so bad" Gotta luv it. Doyle wrote 50 yrs ago in SS that if you aint losing a lotta money with sets, you aint playing them right.
As behind as SS might be to current theory, that book has so much timeless insight.
Is it juat me, or does every caller who badmouths other players end up making the most -EV players?
Easy check raise on the turn. I'm not even thinking about it.
is that Daniel N calling in?
The way this action went down, it’s amazing Hero didn’t raise turn or jam the river…That’s playing pretty scared
Looks like games are still good! Going to head down to Hollywood Park this week. Lol
'These are the morning players' caller playing in the am. Shes an "owc" , ' he never raises, just calls everything' yet caller is playing exactly the same way...doesnt he realize the irony. ? Man he missed an extra 450.00, not to mention a bunch of $$ from the button. He wouldnt fold the turn.
Love the content helps with my overthinking
He was thinking what the heck is this guy doing. After the hand was over both opponents were probably thinking the same thing. Middle age man coffee 😂
This whole call is scared money. I can understand not raising flop, but with that action it's all in on the turn and be prepared to rebuy if it's set over set. He just let the most obvious flush draw realize it's equity.
This caller needs to go back tot he $1-$2 table. Ridiculous monsters under the bed..LMFAO
That was dream scenario.
Guy calling other players nitty and check calls all way with perfect set vs gin turn card they never folding
Hero: "I have pocket aces and flop quads. But this old woman is so tight she might have pocket aces and flopped quads too. I should fold to be safe"
The caller is a middle-aged man coffee
Somehow predicted the show down to be HJ with AJ-AK and BTN with AXhh.
Anyway, how is that a call river??? BROOOO
Trivial raise on the turn.
The OWC literally never has AA because OM/WCs are always terrified of getting sucked out on so would definitely bet flop. And if she had TT she’d probably check-raise the flop because someone will almost certainly have a flush draw when button bets AND hero calls.
If the button has TT then so be it. But there’s more combos of 33, AT and flush draws.
So which one is the real OMC?
Twelve Minutes in, I'm all in on the Turn. If they have a set of Aces or Tens, I'm okay with losing.
Just raise. Once in a while you'll get hooked by someone sandbagging a better hand, but 19 times out of 20 you've got the best hand here...put the chips in the middle and relieve the bad players of their cash.
I would have definitely check raised the turn and as played I’d be excited to jam the river after they bet call the 200. He definitely would’ve got the ace queen of hearts to call the check raise all in on the turn.
Is Marc goone playing live in Canada for this challenge lately ?
This caller is wild lolll
It's an interesting theory that the button is just calling in the river with a hand that can beat a set of 4s because he's more interested in getting the hero to overcall and/or raise than he is to get the HJ to put in her last $225 when she's clearly pot committed.
But this requires the hero to have a table image as a more aggro player, and judging from the extremely small sample size of this one hand, it seems that there's zero chance that the hero has this table image.
You have to understand your table image and factor that into your decisions. There's zero chance that the button has the hero beat.
I wouldn't call this overthinking. I would call this the hero failing to understand that he's a nit and his table image is that of a nit. The hero not once talked about his table image and how the other players think of him. That's a big mistake.
Regarding the winrate.
I see a lot of pretty epic, borderline historic winrates in various chats.
I played poker professionally for quite a long time, mostly online, mostly 6 max plo. A very good winrate was 5bb/100, an excellent winrate 10bb/100. Much higher winrates than 10bb/100 over a decent sample size are not really a thing, except heads up or severe game selecting/bum hunting. In Holdem, winrates are smaller.
Live no Limit Holdem tables deal between 25-30 hands/hour. Lets assume 30.
75 dollar/hour is 15bb. Over 30 hands. Equals to 50bb/100. 100 dollar/hour equals 66bb/100. If the game is slow, even close to 100bb/100.
Just no.
I say this in the nicest way possible. How in the hell do you not raise this flop?! When I first saw this, I thought to myself that the caller is not an experienced player. This spot imo should be raised almost all the time.
Also if you jam and lose to lady. Make a good chunk back in side pot.
LOL OMC calling in and talking about OWC
Holy shit. Where can I find a game like this in my area? Everyone in this hand, including the caller is terrible 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Most screwed up hand in quite a while. Super clear on the flop even that HJ lady has two overs, maybe with Ah. Nothing else ever calls here after checking when checked to as the preflop aggressor. I put at least one of them on two pair, though
gotta get that in on the turn
This call hurt my head
Im check jamming the turn especially against an OWC and a fish, if she had aces so be it, cause the BT didnt have 10s cause they aint raise the OWC $100 bet so a set of 4s is by far the best hand with two draws now on the board
How are we not raising turn when the money card turns up? As played, the original raiser (OWC) only has $225 left after her $200 river bet. If OMC on the button never raises a set of tens, why not put OWC all in with a $225 raise on the river? OMC gets an extra $225 if he has tens, oh well. You payed the proper price to feel the shock if that's the case. OMC said, "If you raise, I fold." I don't see him folding for $225 more to win $1575. Especially when he closes the action. If he does fold, oh well. That extra $225 represents a significant boost to your hourly win rate. If OMC also calls the extra $225, your hourly jumps from $400/hr to $600/hr.
if he won 1k yesterday would he behave different today in this hand. i doubt it he would put the all in button out. value that set he has.
Lol at him saying he likes to bet thin. This wouldn't even be a thin jam.
I hope he isn’t coached by crush live. I would love to play games with these “thinking” players.
In my card room someone has 52 in this hand
Caller sounds like the omac 'ol milddle age' coffee. Dude get that check raise in.
This dude is an OYMC...gl to him ! The OMC and OWC are probably laughing together and thinking that he is a big nit...
Old young man coffee
When a lady rolls her eyes at you, you know you're a nit!
I'm a COMPLETE casual poker viewer. I just watch these videos for entertainment but... I gasped at the caller not raising the turn😅🤣
My poker-caveman brain: "TT Unlikely, if someone has it, I accept defeat. Otherwise, overpairs and draws fold, or they pay me and gamble since they're behind... Raise $300"
MUTB syndrome is one of the worst offenders for missing value. I can see having MUTB from recency bias but I raise turn all day if I missed the raise on flop. AQhh never folding turn
I would’ve been too embarrassed to call this hand in.
You are the game you play
Dude sounds like Negreanu
He’s never flatting with 10s on the river lol
Figured she had the Ax of hearts and had a ten, but basically the same thing.
I have a tendency to bet thin but i didnt do it here
scared of ghosts
If the button had a set of tens he raises the $200 bet from HJ
If all these 100/hr win rate guys played at the same table. What would be their win rate be then? I m so tired of win rate discussion. Players are much better than they used to be. Maybe I am the only one that feels this way.
Me thinks caller in the OMC here. Good grief.
I’m sure the caller is a great gentleman… this is legitimately the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard of in my entire life. And I just watched the presidential debate.
“I have a tendency to bet thin”. 😂😂 I wanna know what this guy thinks is thin if he’s scared to raise 200 into and 1100 pot with a set 🤦♂️
Scared money don’t make no money.
It never has, and it never will.
I would have backed the truck up on the turn.
Should of got it all in on the turn.
How does this dude call others "OMC" type players yet plays as passively possibly. I think he misplayed every single street.
And I thought I was a fish
Daniel is that you ?
This caller is such a scared, terrible player I think for his own well being he should stick to 1/2 NLHE. Preflop Bart asked him if he would ever consider folding 44 from out of position because the effective stacks were only $600 - the caller didn't even describe the initial circumstances correctly because he said the effective stack was due to the HJ initial raiser being $600, and neglected to even mention that the button had an $1100 stack. And the way this guy plays his 44 so scared he really should fold it preflop because when he hits the flop for a set he's too scared to try to maximize his earnings making it an -EV play for him.
Wtf did i just watch....
How bad is the caller. I couldn’t even finish the video
Dear lord talk about irony. Talking about old man/woman coffee types and then calling with that hand on the river. As playing I’m never not jamming there and I consider myself a relatively tight low variance type of player.
Scared of one hand wtf was that
Tell me you are an OMC without telling me you are an OMC ....
What a beautiful money printing hand... the hero lost a lot of value.
Dude lost alot of value. Can't play scared
Is this the worst player to ever call in?
quit slow playing sets!
What an absolutely terribly played hand
Wow scared much?
You can't analyze a non thinking player.
He missed total value they would have had to put in the call for an additional $225; at least she would